f13.net

Just wondering what everyone else's thoughts were on tipping.

I usually tip around 20%, and have always been of the school that there is no reason not to tip. Yet, today I did not tip waitstaff for the first time in my life.

My fault entirely as in I should've known better, the site was hosting two 20ish groups and some smaller groups (seriously they had 5 or more separate stacks of table cards, holiday lunches/parties). They left the food under a heat lamp for 10-15 minutes or more before it got to me. took a bite, paid the bill and walked out.

My bands are 15%, 20%, and 25% (+).

Getting 25% requires a monumental effort. Places like Cut at the Venetian and Salt&Time, Foreign & Domestic, or Wink in Austin get 25% out of me nearly every time.

20% is typically saved for diners where the people there are selling cheap food and still have a good time. The bill is already pretty cheap, so hitting 20% there isn't a concern. Hell, Waffle House typically gets 20%+ outta me.

15% probably applies to nearly 90% of restaurants where service is like "I'll be your waiter and forget half your drinks."

Good service is hard to find in any profession, but especially hard to find in dining. Unfortunately, in a tip based economy, the person with the wallet is your god, so don't be a shithead.

I go from 10-20%. Usually 20%, with points deducted for forgotten drinks and fucked up orders.

I tip most things around 20% adjusted by performance, but I also provide a common sense filter. 

If it is a cheap place, or I order cheap off the menu, I'll tip higher for good service.  I don't punish people because the menu items are cheaper.  If I'm waiting in a cafe for a loooooong while and only get a $2 soda with lots of refills, I might leave a $10 tip.

If I order at an expensive place or the food I order at a reasonable place is the overpriced item, I tip lower than 20% - down to 12 to 15% for reasonable service.  I don't feel bad leaving a 12% tip on a $120 meal if the server didn't really do much more than listen and carry food. 

I rarely do not tip at all.  Even if your server is a jerk, they are often sharing tips with other people like hosts and bussers.  If you screw the jerk, you screw them too. 

Usually I tip 15% for basic competence, and 20% for someone who looks like they're putting in some effort above the bare minimum.  Generally rounded so that I can pay without getting much change. 

The only time I tip less than 15% normally is when I'm paying for an entire group, because that gets expensive fast.  I suppose I might theoretically tip less if the server was REALLY bad but I'm generally pretty hard to annoy with that kind of thing.

20% at lower end places, 15% at higher end places.

The exception is Waffle House where I always tip at least $5. Those people work hard for next to nothing.

Generally 20%-25% for compulsory tipping situations, and change plus an extra $1 in tip jars.  I base tips more on how often I go to the place than on how good the service was.

All tip places the people work for next to nothing, I think it's what? 2.15 an hour?  Which is why I pay 20% for tips and generally 5 dollars for everything tip wise (except Starbucks, I don't tip on my Espresso the once every other month or so I stop there)

Yeah its funny how I tend to tip higher when the food is cheaper, especially if I think its good value. I get a Bahn Mi at a local Pho place for lunch, and they only charge like six bucks for it, and I get tea at the table. I'll flat tip at least two bucks on that out of principal.

Mostly though 15 - 20 depending on service, a little higher if they went out of their way for me. Sister waited for 15 years, I get what its like.


Edit: Starbucks is a good point - do you tip on counter service or only sit down? Sometimes I tip a buck when picking something up, or at the beer store if they act friendly. Usually I only really tip for table servers though.

I never carry cash/change (habit from working on Mill Ave. in downtown Tempe, it's easier to brush off the 'Mill Rats' with "I don't have cash"), that and a tip to press a button on a 3,000$ machine for a 2.25 coffee?

I was recently told that you are suppose to tip when picking up take out too.

I don't understand that one.

No.  If they provide no service, they get no tip from me.

I tend to tip 10% for minimal effort, 15% if they do their job, and 20%+ if they were good.  More if they are a student (I always live in college towns). 

I used to work for tips when I was in school, so I tend to tip higher than "average".

I pretty much will never tip under 15%, usually tip around 20%. Good service almost always is around the 25% range for the kind of places I frequent.

For places with a tip jar that are just carry out type places I don't usually leave anything as those employees are paid like normal hourly employees.

I tip too much, and I know it. But I figure the poor fuck needs it. If you really fuck up my order you get 5 bucks, size of bill doesnt matter.

I don't understand America. I expect a business to be paying people enough to live on, if I know they're not I won't give them my custom. The % tip I also really don't get conceptually, quality of service isn't really tied to the quality of the food or establishment. It seems weird that someone that gives you crappy service in a medium restaurant gets 10% of $80 and someone who gives excellent service in a basic place might get 20% of $40. They're getting the same tip but one of them gave you crap and the other did a good job.

That said I do tip in restaurants where I've gotten really good service, usually £5-10 depending on good or 'actually improved my night'. In South East Asia I did tip a fair bit because I knew I was making a stupid amount of money relative to people serving me and they were generally really nice so I went overboard with extra money for the laundry guy, off-licence dude and stuff.

Usually in higher-end places the staff get paid a better wage (though not like sensible country level wage.) It is the people who work in the "turn tables as fast as you can, get stiffed by 60% of your clientele" kind of places that make the slave wage and work the hardest (the aforementioned Waffle House being an example.)

I will never, under any circumstances, tip under 10%. People who are "tipped employees" have income tax withheld from their shitty wages assuming that they get 9% of their sales as a tip. When I worked for tips, a paycheck for a 40 hour work week would usually be around $60 after taxes were taken out.

20% unless some extraordinary horseshit has gone down that I know full well is directly attributable to front of the house service. (Based in part on having been back of the house in my earlier life).

I would be very glad to see tipping go away IF IF IF I had documented proof that the owner was paying a living wage. Right now I think some of the places switching over to a no-tipping model have not proven to my satisfaction that they're paying staff what they're worth.

Usually in the 20+% range. All things being equal, I tend to err on the side of tipping high because the people are working a job I know I'd hate and probably running into a fair share of assholes who tip poorly for no reason.

Same as pretty much everyone else somewhere around 20%. I've only not left a tip once in my life. Terrible service and it was clear she was paying more attention to the tables that had the better dressed business people. I hate it when servers assume I don't have money because I don't dress that nice.

If you aren't going to leave a tip, you are better off telling a manager why you aren't rather than just stiffing them and leaving. Otherwise the server just thinks you are a jerk. Telling the manager might actually change something.

15-20% here.. but it depends mostly on the service.  I refuse to tip if there are no services rendered and I may tip lower if it's like at a buffet and all they really do is remove plates.

15% every time no matter how great of god awful the service is.  It's just an American food tax to me.

But I also think they should just pass a national law that bans tipping (or at least makes it an automatic percent nobody has any control over), to help us join the rest of the civilized world.
There are a few states (such as California) where all staff must make at least minimum wage.  I didn't realize till my 20's that we are so ass backwards that most states let employers not actually pay their employees.  I'd assumed minimum wage meant minimum wage.....

I wrote on the receipt the reason for not leaving a tip and I'm pretty sure it was actually a manager who took the receipt (the only person not wearing black in the establishment).

I tend to over-tip, unless given a reason not to.

I'm single, with lots of disposable income.

Almost always 20% or $2-3 if a really cheap meal/snack.  It has to be pretty lousy service for me to tip less.  If we're a semi-large group and had decent service then I'll usually go up a bit more.

I generally tip around 20%. Exceptions are for buffet type places, where I tip a dollar for each place setting (since at most they clearing dishes and refilling drinks 20% seems too much, but nothing is too cheap), and exceptionally poor service (you get a quarter, prominently displayed so it is clear I didn't just forget).

I tend to round up to the nearest amount easily made out of my change (if 20% would be $2.50, but the change brought back doesn't include coins that come close, they get $3).

--Dave

I rarely eat out - it's expensive in the UK - but when I do I always ask the wait staff if they get tips or if the manager takes them. A surprising number of places take the tips away from the staff. I never eat in those places twice.

Some places pool the tips and share them between wait staff and kitchen staff too, which I'm in two minds about. On the one hand kitchen staff are often paid crappy wages too and they never get tipped otherwise. On the other hand it means you can't directly reward good service from a particular person. But preparing and serving food is a collaborative effort, so it doesn't change my tipping either way.

So I tip 15% or so, rounding up to the nearest £5 or whatever cash is in my pocket. We have a legal minimum wage in the UK though, although employers still often find ways to ignore that. Some people use that as an excuse to not tip. I won't eat out with those people twice without an argument.

15-20% and I'll go above that if the service was above and beyond expectations or the group was creating a lot of work for the waitstaff.

I tend to also go above that if it's a cheaper meal so as to not leave an absurdly small tip.

What about delivery?  I tend to tip delivery drivers about 10% and am not sure what's reasonable there.

I aim for 20% or so. It generally doesn't occur to me to actually evaluate the service before deciding on a tip. Sometimes I'll even do 15% on takeout if their Square thing asks me to because I'm beta like that.

Bars are where I lose consistency. I feel like I should tip but I have no idea what value to ascribe to the bartender taking like 15 seconds to hand me a bottle of cider.

Yeah, the whole "give me a buck everytime I pour you a glass of beer" thing has always pissed me off.

I always tip my bartenders well, especially at bars I'm a regular at.  Makes it much easier to catch their eye when the bar is crowded, and occasionally results in free drinks.

I pretty much do 20% although if the server does something really stupid I might drop it to 10% very rarely they are so bad that I don't leave anything.

I'm an asshole.

I only tip if I get great service (in which case I usually tip 20-25%). Only exception is food delivery, which will always get a tip dependant on how much my food cost, as I hate dealing with the 'let me get you your change' bit, so I just let them keep the change. Probably averages 20%, I think. I get very quick delivery these days, so I wager I tip more than most around my neighbourhood.

But with restaurants, etc.? If I don't get good to great service, I don't leave a tip at all. It isn't my job to pay you a fair wage and I refuse to reward mere competence or shitty service. Now, I don't actually know if here (Alberta, Canada) they actually require tips to make a liveable wage, and I don't really care. It doesn't matter much, however, as I rarely eat out (and when I do, I'm usually not the one paying). I've never understood the tipping culture, or giving money to people like your mail carriers. I don't get it. Why should I pay you for doing your job properly?

And yes, I've worked a job where tipping was part of my income. Still don't get it.

Well, at least you know it.

I've always tipped my delivery drivers a flat $3; lately my favorite pizza place has been using their cellphones to take signatures instead of a paper slip, and on their app it asks for a percentage based (12%, 15%, 18%) tip which I don't really understand. Carrying in two pizzas isn't substantially harder than just carrying one, so I don't tip based on a percentage. So even when I'm paying with my card I do my best to tip in cash.

Seconded.

One thing I like about visiting New Zealand for business: no tipping!

They just charge a reasonable amount for the food/beer and pay their employees a decent (for retail) wage. Sure saves a lot of hassle.

Also known as literally almost every place in the world outside of North America.   :awesome_for_real:

I'm like Schild with my bands, though I'm more often on the 20% side than not. I rarely hit 25% and only once have done more because, damn, that was a super waitress and I was a big inebriated.

I was thinking about the tipping culture thing when I was in Vegas. As I was signing over yet another "wow, that's a lot for an hours work" tip I realized that's why some sectors fight it so damn hard. If they were put on a living wage they'd make significantly less money, even at fine dining establishments.

Pretty much 20% rounded to the nearest dollar, unless the bill is cheap. Easy Street Records has a cafe with $7 breakfasts; I would feel like shit leaving $1.40 for someone that's stopped by five times to fill my coffee during the 30min I was there. In those cases, I usually leave $5 or $10 because their staff is gruff and no-nonsense, but they work hard and get food to customers fast. 

For all this discussion, restaurants are the easy case. What do you tip your hairdresser? What about the person who washes your hair at the hairdresser? What about taxi drivers? Or the person who cleans your hotel room? I don't mind the idea of tipping as much as not having a clue how much to tip.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, it would all be a lot simpler if they could just factor a good tip into how much they were charging me for all this stuff in the first place and then make sure the people get paid well.

I generally don't go to places that cost more than $20 for a meal, so I'll usually tip $2 if the service was decent.

I usually tip 4-5$ for a hair cut. Taxi Drivers are 3-5$, but that depends on the length of the trip. Hotel staff is tough, they're all usually unionized in large cities, granted that still probably means 9-11$ an hour or maybe a bit more (I fortunately don't travel much).

That is about right.  Unless i destroy a hotel room i will rarely tip.

If for no other reason, I tend to tip a bit on the heavy side because the person receiving the tip likely needs the money more than I do. I like to think of it as a microlevel type of economic stimulus.

Especially if it's a place I am repeatedly frequenting, I almost invariably tend to get good service and plenty of attention, whether it's a no-hassle order modification, or my barber being willing to still honor my haircut appointment if arrive 15 minutes late and I'm going to delay the person with the next appointment.

I always overtip, but then I'm in the industry.

Tipping in other professions I've got mixed feelings about. For good or bad food service tipping is institutionalized in the USA, with wages and tax structures set accordingly (making your wait staff sort of a group of half assed independent contractors, at least in their own heads). They need that tip to make a living wage. But your hair stylist? The hotel cleaning staff? I'll follow custom here, while disagreeing with the expectation.

I did tip the car towing guy who took extra special care getting my vehicle up on the truck though. First time I've ever done that, but he really did a good job.

On the other hand I draw the line at the tip jar set up on the counter of my local liquor store. What the hell is up with that? Is that a thing now???

@Brellium I understand why you did it the way you did, but honestly a better customer response (again, coming from someone in the industry) would have been to take a bite, send the food back, refuse the bill but still drop a couple bucks on the table for the server. That way the proper problem would have been penalized.

But then the way you handled it wasn't that bad, since I guarantee you the manager got such an earful from the wait that he'll try a bit harder next time to make sure he's properly staffed (and I say that in full knowledge that sometimes it's just not possible -- but that still shouldn't be the customer's problem).

Hair: 25%. She's using Square for payments so I just pick the highest tip bracket she set.
Taxi: 10% personal, 20% if part of my business per diem.
Hotel: I only have the room cleaned after I leave, even if it's for a week. I'm fairly clean and I don't like people rooting through my shit. I do not tip at all. And I'll carry my bags; I never pack more than I can carry out anyways.

In Australia I only tip meals at proper restaurants, and that tends to be 10% down to maybe even 6-7% if its a very expensive meal.

Some people don't tip at all, and that's not uncommon but is unusual, especially in Sydney.

Here everyone typically gets paid properly in the places you tip, though.

Everyone who runs a register at a service has started setting-up tip jars. It's been a thing for at least 6 or 7 years now and started because of Baristas and the like expecting tips for their 'awesome' coffee froth art. Yes, it's ridiculous and I refuse to partake.

Traditional tips are: Wait staff, bellmen, taxi drivers IF they handle your bags, and cleaning staff IF they do more than a cursory tuck and fold on the bed.

The staff at the Venetian, for example will fold your bed clothes, reorganize your toiletries on the sink and generally tidy everything up other than papers and your computer. That earns a tip from me.

Other than that, you can be kind and tip your garbage collector, and the post carrier at the winter holidays but it's not required. I don't do that as I don't talk to them but my parents knew ours by name and tipped them because of it. I never see 'em and I never have more than a can or two on the curb, so nope.

Which is why the bartender chicks in Sydney remembered me and gave me good service when I went back the next day, I was tipping like I did in Chicago.  :drillf:

Bars: Tip well, even extravagantly, on your first order, if you plan on being there all night. Make sure they see you stick the money in the jar. You'll get served faster in a crush, they have a heavy hand on the booze, and they'll sometimes upgrade to the top shelf.

--Dave

Yeah, I should add that despite all my hatred of tipping, the practice has been burned into me with all the power of American Moral guilt.  I tip way higher outside the U.S. Because most places I go are so much cheaper/poorer.  In Poland, people will tip 10% for amazing service at a nice place, and nothing other than that.  Poland is so god damn cheep though that 10% at a nice restaurant is like, a buck.  So I'll tip 30% sometimes because I feel guilty about leaving a tip so low in American dollars.  I've tipped 50% before because it was $3.  Seems almost to scare the waiters.  Polish people I'm with look like they want to punch me for throwing that amount of money away.  I tipped the equivalent of $3 to a delivery boy who brought a shit ton of food to my apartment one night, and he had a look on his face like I just offered to let him fuck my supermodel wife (note, I don't actually have one).

I pretty much just throw wads of colorfull bills at restaurant/bar staff in Southeast Asia.

With the Russian Ruble now hitting above 70 to 1 usd (last year, it was 30 to 35 to usd range), I'm starting to do the same here.  But Russians are kind of assholes, so it's helping curb that habbit.

You're likely being rude to those you are with, not the people you are tipping. ;)

We were splitting checks, so they can say nothing!

Now China, while out with a group of Chinese friends for the first time in Shanghai, I grabbed the bill and asked if they tipped in this country.  I actually got slapped.


Edit: though more often than not In group situations I threw the tip on the table after the waitress had come and everything was paid.  Still got looks and snide comments.  American moral guilt hooo!

He's not wrong though.  The whole concept of tipping is fucking stupid and the fact that society tries to guilt you into paying extra out of the graciousness of your heart so that businesses don't have to pay their wait staff is unexcusable.

Splitting checks in Eastern Europe/Russia is like digging through a couch and splitting the change you find. Why even bother?

Yeah, still seems like you might be being insensitive to those you are with.

Well, in the situations where we split checks, it's always been in groups where there are a large amount of Americans with the locals.  And since the vast majority of Americans seem to abhore splitting the bill evenly (I don't mind), check splitting happens.  If it's with primarily foreign friends, then yeah, no check splitting.  It's so damn cheap it's way beyond the hassle.

I don't mind tipping but I also agree that them giving you the stink eye for not tipping on takeout at pizza places or the like is stupid.

Yes, I'll tip if I do curbside or something, but not if I'm doing carryout from Dominos or something.

How much are you supposed to tip for curbside, anyway? The only place around here that does it is Applebys and the few times I've done it I've just been confused. 10% seems fair, since they aren't doing nearly the work a server would do (unless it's raining or something) but if they're being paid the equivalent of a server and only doing curbside then I feel bad.

Him grabbing the bill and deciding to tip does no harm to the people who didn't have to pay the bill.

And asking about tipping was fine. I was in Toronto last summer with a buddy, neither of us had data access on the phones there, so I had to ask the server if tipping is normal there - she was kind of awkward about it, but the answer was yes. I probably still overtipped, but my loss was her gain.

Standard in Canada is 15%. But they are trying to convince us that 20% should be the thing. Which is going in the wrong direction. Just pay people a fair salary and have done with it.

Tipping is Socialism.

No harm, but for some people it can be rude and presumptuous to pay, or to demonstrate a flippancy about what to them might not be as insignificant an amount of money.

Not saying it always is. But you have to be careful.

When I pick up to go orders from a diner or a restaurant ill tip 10% if they person goes to the trouble of giving me utensils, sauces and makes sure all that food is there in front of me. Usually that equates to an extra 3 bucks or so.

Pizza delivery is 4 or 5 bucks no matter what unless it was super late.

Hair cuts are like 5 or 6 bucks. 7 if they hair dresser was hot.

Taxi is usually 4 to 7 depending on speed and assistance with bags if I'm travelling.

Restaurants are ways 20% and either an extraordinary bad or good experience gets me to deviate from that.

Bars are always a buck a drink if I'm doing cash or a few drinks on a tab. If it's a long night and a big tab 20 to 30 depending on pour speed and free drinks. Withvtwo small children I haven't been out to drink in years.

I always tip my postal service lady. She takes care of my shit im not home. Even if UPS drops something off she'll get it somewhere safe for me.

People who don't tip for reasons (assuming you're American) are shitheads. I understand everyone else's confusion in other countries.

Assuming you are eating somewhere that serves alcohol they're making $10.70 an hour (which is better than the $9 an hour they make in BC). So assuming they actually get 40 hours a week in shifts, without tipping those servers are bringing in a massive $22k per year. A quick check says the average yearly wages in Alberta are around $59k.

I just tip 20% minus the decimals. Makes the math easy.

I don't like tipping in hotels. I'll fully admit that. I already feel like I'm getting really fucked by the hotel pricing, so I'm less inclined to be generous to the staff unless the service is great.

Pretty much the same. I'm not hurting for money.  A few bucks doesn't matter to me, but it might matter to them.

Hotel tipping is hard.  I don't carry cash normally.

Pizza tipping: When it arrives, I open the box.  If the toppings are right and the cheese is still melty, I tip 20%.  If the cheese is congealed or the toppings don't match what it shows on the receipt (the delivery guy should check to make sure he has the right box), then I tip a buck or two.

Take out: I do not tip on take out unless they do something special for me.

Bars: I tip $1 a drink unless they put me to the front of the line, then I tip a lot.  I'd rather pay a fwe extra bucks than stand around waiting for my drinks forever and I go to few enough places that the bartenders pick up on it.

Hotels: I only tip if I stay multiple days and get some extra good service. 

I almost always tip cash rather than adding it to the credit card.

Hotels: maybe the valet if I have a buck in my pocket.

Take out: Only if I pay cash and there is a tip jar for the coin change. Coins are clutter.

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See, this is the problem I have since that bloody movie came out ;  He was entirely right (if a complete asshole) in what he said.

Isn't paying people for doing their job kind of the point?

I think the point is people are paid to do the job, why do you have a system in the US where customers need to pay the individual worker extra for them to do the job properly. In fact I think it almost perfectly sums up my attitude towards tipping to say I feel the same way about bribing border guards or immigration officials in South East Asia to actually process my paperwork as I do about being expected to pay 20% extra on my bill for someone to take my order and do their job.

There's two questions here.  One is should it be that way and the other is given that it works this way (how well) should you tip?

I think most people seem to think a wage that evened things out so tipping wasn't necessary would be better, even if it meant higher prices for the food or service in the first place.  I agree with that.  In this sense the 20% isn't "extra" it's just "how much this costs."

By all means, let's have a system where people actually get paid well for their work.  But until we do I'm not going to be the asshole that doesn't tip because I object in principle to the way the system is put together at the moment. 

That's why to me there is a difference in tipping at income levels. For lower tier food I'm likely to tip more than higher tier food in restaurants.

The lowest I'm likely to leave assuming the waitress didn't insult me is 10%. That's dead minimum. 0% is reserved for when I had to wait for 10 minutes just to get somebody to take my drink order, and the food showed up wrong.

Putting it another way, it may not be your fault that the system is what it is, but it is your fault if the server does not make a living wage from your table...

That's basically what I do except I had friends that worked for tips in restaurants so I learned about that life that way. I also tip a smaller amount for take out/food trucks just cause it's the SF Bay Area.

Question here is, would you be happy not tipping if they made minimum wage?  There are a shit ton of other jobs and industry where people make minimum wage, work their asses off, and you don't tip them.  In California and a few other places, waiters make minimum wage (and our minimum wage is better than most places).  We still have to tip.

Just sort of seems shitty to be tipping them and not others.  But also fucking stupid that I'm directly paying them instead of their boss in the first place.  I'd sort of just like to see what would happen if tipping was outlawed, and we saw the market take effect.  People worth a damn would quite until they got something decent they could live by.  Doing something like that might be the only way to fix the system.

Hmm, I have some 2012-2013 Politics forum deja vu. IMO - like others said - tipping is just manual correction for the disparity between a livable income and their salary. It's a huge pain to figure out when going abroad, too: when I was in Canada/US this fall, I was surprised to learn you're supposed to leave a tip for the cleaning crew in an envelope or something. Dudes, it's expensive enough to stay in your hotel as it is! What can I say, I'm an asshole.

random aside: in Hungary you're expected to tip your doctor (if it's not a private practice, that is) for basically the same reasons. They have laughable salaries, even compared to something like a random local yahoo with a programming BSc, and if they didn't get tips, they'd emigrate in even larger numbers than they already do. This also means that there's an increasing shortage of doctors that generally don't meet the patient and thus can't receive tips such as anesthesiologists and pathologists. :secondworldproblems:

I never tip chamber maids. Ever. I think it's fucking ridiculous. It's what I mean about tipping in hotels. I'm paying an absurd rate to stay there already. Everything about hotels and the financial culture of them fucking you like you're in an amusement park with pricing makes tipping out of the question for me. If you're willing to work there, oh well. I tip the bare minimum at every hotel if at all.

However, I do tip my maids for my personal house at Christmas. So it's not as much about the service as the consistency. I know them and I like their services. Same thing with the front desk people in the building.

Cows: 90 degrees.

Like I said that's how I feel about getting the shakedown from officials in South East Asian countries like Cambodia. In the same way I'll go along with it when I'm there because I'm aware I'm making more than them and their pay is shit. I'm just making the comparison because I feel a lot of the time when people in the US complain about others not tipping or not wanting to tip I think that comparison gives some idea of how bizarre and skeevy the system feels to an outsider. Also because I know plenty of Americans who will complain day and night about getting 'shaken down' or ripped off by touts at those places and it turns out it was like $3 more than the accepted rate for something. They don't object to tipping though because that's some sort of meritocratic reward for hard work while they were forced to pay up (or end up waiting like 4 hours for someone to file a few bits of paper).

Also paying doctors is a thing in Hungary? I'm genuinely curious is it genuinely a socially accepted thing where people are concerned and want their doctors to stay working in the country or is it more along the lines of China where if you're not bringing a red envelope then you'll probably be at the back of the line on your next hospital visit. I do see a big difference in tipping in a service culture where you get the work done and pay more if it was good (or in the US, if you got it) and more crucial areas where you want costs, etc. to be up front and if it's government operated should be tax funded. If they want private money to supplement things it should be more above board.

Saying the system is stupid is one thing, and correct.  Saying that as a consequence you're going to refuse to participate by going out to eat and then not tipping is being a wrong asshole.  If you want to boycott the system, don't go out to eat.  Giving the shaft to the person in the situation with the least power to change it (and conveniently pocketing the difference yourself) fixes nothing and just makes you a cheap bastard.

What if the difference isn't being pocketed by yourself, but by the hotel/restaurant/whatever, and you're expected to compensate their staff for their greed?

That's illegal in California.   :awesome_for_real:  Employers aren't permitted to pocket their employees' tips.  So if that's happening here you have a criminal situation for which there are better remedies than just not tipping.  I don't know about the rest of you living in the third world.

That's not what I'm saying.

Cool, thanks for clarifying.

It's mainly a holdover from the Communist days, when it was just one way of low-level bribery required if you wanted to get service at all, in basically every field (so more of the second example). However, since Hungary's become a capitalist country, it's been more of the first option. Healthcare is one of the big blindspots of the country, where everyone expects that it'll "just work like it used to", even though the operational model during the Communist regime was completely untenable to begin with. So yea, on one hand everyone is entitled to free healthcare (and is not obligated to pay anymore), but the old habits are still there; on the other hand, doctor and healthcare salaries in general are laughably low to the point that there's a severe shortage as the older doctors retire and new ones move out of the country almost immediately. It is also a way for the patient to give "feedback" to the doctor via the tip amount. Some services have an almost fixed-size tip you're supposed to give, ie. 80-100k HUF (that's a pretty sizeable amount, more than 1/3 of the average monthly salary) for delivering a baby.

We even made up our own word for it, which sounds properly Latin and shit (paraszolvencia -> para + nounified version of 'solvo', "side payment"). Legally it's taboo and shouldn't exist, but well... it does. It's not something a foreigner will ever encounter, though, since if you need medical help in Hungary, you'll either be taken to a private practice or the 'high-end' wing of a hospital, and you / your insurance company will get a regular bill for all incurred costs.

Right, 'cause we're the third world because you don't pay enough so that customers have to make up the difference.   :oh_i_see:

Also, not what I was saying either.  For the avoidance, I do tip, even over here where I don't actually fucking have to.  I waited as a student, so I get the idea of being paid extra for good customer service.  What I object to (and the guy in the movie did) was the idea that you have to hand over cash to a wait staff because you got waited on.  That's... not the idea.  Like, at all.  I don't pay your company to come and train me on the software and then hand you a twenty for a 'good powerpoint clarity'.  The very idea is fucking stupid.  You might be getting paid buttons, sure, but that's not in the fucking social contract between us.  You get paid by your company, I pay your company, you fucking train me.

People who say 'but the service industry is different' are just ignoring the fucking problem and enabling it.

Also, the amount of fucking companies that STILL screw the staff over who get tips, don't even get me started.  Even in the third world.  Especially the new automated 'just tip using your card'.  Yeah.  'Cause the pretty wee lassie will see that someday.  Sure.  Right at the end of the fucking rainbow in the crock.

( Also, the tipping system and wait staff pay is broken, so don't go eat out is fucking stupid and you know it.  You Bastard.)

It's less stupid than "wait staff pay is broken, so I will take a moral stand against the employers by not tipping the staff and spending the money on cocaine instead, look at me I'm a hero."  By orders of magnitude.  But both are stupid.  Just fuckin pay ya tips, ya cheap bastids.

What thread are you reading ?

Don't think anyone's taking a 'moral' stand.  But I sure as fuck won't be emotionally blackmailed to part with cash for no cause.  So many fellow waiters when I was young would say 'Cheap bastards didn't tip' and I had to bite my tongue from saying 'You didn't give them bread, you ignored them to flirt with the other staff and you were generally an ignorant cunt on the floor'.  Tip that ?  Fuck off.

Seriously, I'm probably coming at this from a different angle than you, since you're talking to the demons in your head, rather than what I'm saying, but there's fuck all moral about this one.  You're saying 'The System is Broken, so you HAVE to step up'  That's baws.  Big sweaty baws.  I'm under no fucking obligation, moral or otherwise, to pay extra money for The Same Service.  That's NONSENSE.  It's got fuck all to do with being a 'hero'.  No idea where you get that from.  Or the cocaine.

By your logic, I should also be tipping MacDonalds staff and The guys who deliver my food when I get takeout.  When does your belief start to realise to itself that you're just a charity at that point ?  Because, you know, you kinda are.  And I do my charity giving in other ways.  Both are stupid, so just give me your money.  No.  Not a fucking chance.  Earn it, fucko.

But anyway.  Who cares.  Seriously, this is a cultural thing and I ain't in your culture, so we're missing each other by miles.

Meh?  If you don't make enough tips to come up to minimum wage, the employer is required to compensate you the difference.

I agree, tipping as a system is outdated and we should probably get rid of it.  But it is the system.  Server compensation and menu prices are calculated based on tipping.  Getting rid of tipping isn't magically going to make server pay better, it just means menu prices will go up 20% across the board, the employer will pay the servers directly, and there will be knock on effects like more difficulty in staffing busy times (at flat rates the choice shifts will be non-busy shifts) and maybe some low-end restaurants close or go to minimum wage counter workers over waited tables.

The unfounded argument that somehow tipping is a system that employers use to screw over servers is dumb.  At restaurants where tipping is a thing, servers tend to make pretty decent money for someone with little formal schooling.  At this point, servers are as likely to be the ones who don't want tipping to go away since underreporting of tips is fucking huge.  Most clients I have, servers just try to get away with claiming the credit card tips (which is tracked through the POS software, and since its the first thing that gets audited in a sales tax audit you don't fuck with).  Cash tips just disappear.

Low end restaurants largely already used minimum wage labor behind counters rather than paid wait staff.

Do some employers screw over some non-busy time wait staff?  Probably.  Those are the same places that get into shit with the local Sales Tax officials.  The better argument is probably that servers are pressured into working the shitty business shifts with the promise of eventually getting the "good" shifts, so are underpaid relative to their peers at the same place.

Honestly, I think getting rid of tipping will see compensation for servers at the better mid-tier and above places go down.  Tipping means that server compensation is inextrictably tied to menu prices.  When prices go up, servers automatically get a pay bump.  The employer paying 100% of wages gives the employer bargaining power over servers who now must negotiate for their wages, in an industry with fairly low education/qualification requirements.

Ten to twenty years ago, there was probably more shenanigans.  At the current level of technology, where you have to have a modern Point of Sale system to track sales tax and where your credit card receipts are reported to the IRS by your processor (and many people pay by debit/credit card), not so much.

Or you could have a system where people get paid properly, and tipping is seen as an optional extra that customers willingly give for good service, like happens in Australia.

Johny's point is that paying servers "properly" at high end restaurants will mean they get paid less. Which sort of sucks, since waiting tables is one of the few decent paying jobs left for relatively unskilled workers.

Why? They still get tips. We tip well at top end restaurants. They just get better base pay too. They're not exclusive.

Unless you're just talking about people avoiding paying as much tax as they should. In which case, fuck that.

It's definitely different in the US, where 15% tips are assumed as the norm and both compensation and taxation get determined accordingly.  That's what makes Mr. Pink an asshole for saying "I refuse to participate" as his form of protest against the system, being in the US.  Like it or not, failing to tip here is stiffing your server out of their wage; that's the fact of it.  Attempting to frame it as some form of boycott (as Pink did) is bullshit because the point of a boycott is to hit the offending party in their wallet, and that's not what you're doing, you're hitting the VICTIM in the wallet.  Fuck that.  The only way to hit management in the wallet is not to eat at their restaurant, so do that if you care so much.

If you're in a country where that doesn't happen and tipping is in fact optional, whatever.  Exercise your fucking option.  My "third world" comment was aimed at the non-coastal US which is almost uniformly a shithole.

disclaimer: drunkpost.  Sorry, flyover people, I love you all.

That would make sense if the 'tip' was included same as sales tax or something, an unlisted but mandatory charge and reported accordingly. If that's the case in the US then you've got a totally fair point and Mr. Pink is a total asshole.

Otherwise you've got a system that simultaneously wants to pretend tipping is an optional gratuity to reward a particular segment of service staff for the personal service you received above and beyond what they are paid to provide while at the same time insisting that this is totally part of their necessary compensation. The point being if this is the system you don't get it to have it both ways by wanting it put down as optional and opaque (and also outside of any tax records) while also insisting it's compulsory and there's a problem with not including it.

"Parties of six or over will have gratuity added."

Really, California considers itself better than the rest of the country (especially the east coast) with exceptions of Washington and Oregon almost being "California Jr." to most residents.  I laughed out loud when I read it ;-)

And I tip 15% minimum, just did 20% tonight on the ACTUAL bill before using a $25 gift card - which I've seen people using gift cards as justification to stiff the waitstaff on the tip, which I consider to be another asshole thing to do.  I tipped the lady well because she remembered me and how I like my food prepared before I mentioned it, which as far as I'm concerned is going above and beyond the usual "Whaddya want?" and "Here's yer shit" type service of most places.  She also accidentally screwed up and put in 2 orders of dessert that we didn't order but gave them to us anyways and didn't charge us for it.  My local lunch counter pharmacy actually has taken to giving me discounts like not charging me for drinks or knocking off a few bucks because of being a regular, so I still tip even better as a result.  THAT's the type of service that deserves good tipping and I do my best to encourage it.

I will say though, if someone completely BLOWS at their job, has put zero effort into it, gotten the orders wrong, AND is obviously giving zero fucks about things being wrong, I'll tip a quarter or dime just to drive the point home.  Usually I'll not return to that establishment again...

Edit:  Apologies for coherence and snarkiness.  Had to tell a guy he needed to come up with 200k for estimated taxes, got yelled at in Italian and broken English.

 :facepalm:

Okay, for the foreigners, with examples in New York since that is where I practice:

For waitstaff/servers at restaurants:  There is a lower "tipped minimum wage".  In New York, minimum wage is $8.75/hour and tipped minimum wage is $5/hour.  The server declares all tips to his employer with his timecard, and appropriate payroll taxes are withheld by the employer on their wage (base rate + declared tips).  If tipped minimum + tips don't equal the minimum, employer makes up the difference. FOR THE US, IT IS CONSIDERED THE SOCIAL NORM TO TIP BETWEEN 15% AND 20% OF YOUR BILL.  Sometimes people don't tip, sure, but the vast vast majority of patrons tip 15+%.

For a mid end restaurant or bar, a server/bartender can make $300-$500 a "busy" night just on credit card tips.  In most cases, servers will try to get away with declaring just credit card tips, which are in any modern Point of Sale software (since PoS software is used for both credit card processing, internal reporting, and sales tax records).  Cash tips will often fall through the cracks unless declared to the employer.

Functionally, having a full-time waitstaff gig and decent shifts (whatever your busy hours are for your venue type) after tips pays very, very well considering in most cases there are no educational or technical requirements.  For instance, one of my clients is a relatively high end boutique restaurant.  The full-time servers that work the Friday/Saturday evenings easily clear 40k in just the declared tips, and we are in rural New York.  Adding cash tips its probably 50k plus.  Considering the other employment options are retail, fast food, or basic administrative work, which all pay fairly low?  Yahhhh.

For servers, tips are already worked into compensation.  It also means the servers aren't dependent on bargaining with the owners for their wages.  The employers set menu prices to meet their financial expectations, and so every time the employer bumps the menu prices it's an automatic raise to all the servers.  

The very low end type stuff isn't tipped at all.  It is pure regular minimum wage, you work the counter.  Fast food clerks, pizza joints, etc.  Or its under the table (various ethnic restaurants that also have issues with undocumented immigrants;  and/or family joints where family works undeclared).


The other kinds of tipping:

Hairdressers, maids, personal services, etc.  No set social norms for tips, and employee compensation doesn't take tips into consideration.  You tip because you like the person, or you are buttering them up so if you ever really need to sneak in to get a haircut, or bump up an appointment, they will work with you.  If you don't tip them, they don't take it personally.


Addendums:
- Large parties and some restaurants have mandatory gratuities, between 15 and 20%.  It's basically saying "I'm adding 20% as my cost of labor that is going to the server because we don't want you to cheap out".
- Not tipping or tipping low for a server is a pretty major faux paux.  There are regular threads on reddit/facebook about 0 tip bills, or waitstaff/managers chasing customers out to the parking lot.  


Basically, the major change if the US eliminated tipping would be that menu prices would go up between 10 and 20%, and more than likely the formerly higher earning servers would take a haircut in wages since they would end up on the same wage schedule as everyone else.  Also, it would be alot harder to find servers for Friday/Saturday if working the less stressful Sunday-Monday paid the same and you would now could have your weekends free.

Servers would be less dependent on buddying up to owners/managers to get the good shifts.  On the other hand, now they have to try and negotiate with the owner for raises.

You seem to be making the assumption that just because you do away with the 'tipping minimum' that people won't tip anymore?

That's not at all the case in Australia, where tipping is something that happens in restaurants and bars most of the time (more in some states than others), and also in other areas depending on service quality/people being generous sorts.

Every hairdresser/barber I've been to that's not Great Clips has expected me to tip. I usually do, though it varies from $3 for meh to $8 for a nice quick haircut. The price of the haircut usually has no bearing on the tip amount.

When I lived in Brisbane none of the Australians I hung out with ever tipped.

We don't really consider them to be part of Australia, but even then I'm surprised.

When I lived in Sydney I had a waiter chase me out into the street to give me my tip saying I'd left my money on the table.  I was a reasonable tip, not insulting change, so I was never sure if he was offended by it or honestly had no clue about silly Yanks and their tipping and thought I'd accidentally left my money lying there.  But that was in '92.

Sydney is the one city where everyone tips all the time, so that has changed.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/tipping-in-australia-is-rising-but-many-in-melbourne-still-refuse/news-story/40b66bc018e6c496979916d30510b167

It may go the other way now, as you no longer sign for credit, so the usual method of tipping has become clunky and akward.

Went to breakfast at our favorite spot in Kapa'a this morning.  The table next to us raved about the food and service (the waitress in question has worked there for years, and I know she'll bend over backwards to take care of customers.)

The tip they left?  7 cents.

I tipped 40 percent.

Wow, fuck those people. I can respect folks who don't tip more than those who drop less than a vending machine snack on the table as if they're doing a kindness.