f13.net

Robin Williams found dead apparently. Will link story when it emerges. Sucks.

http://www.businessinsider.com/actor-robin-williams-found-dead-in-his-home-2014-8?utm_content=bufferfd047&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

That's terrible.

Robin Wililams was still alive?
/obligatory

Variety (http://variety.com/2014/film/news/robin-williams-found-dead-in-possible-suicide-1201280386/)

Business Insider, citing the Marin County Sheriff's dept. (http://www.businessinsider.com/actor-robin-williams-found-dead-in-his-home-2014-8)

Well, poop.

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/08/11/robin-williams-dead-at-63/

Holy crap.  Guess you never know what someone's really going thru.  RIP.

Heh. Half the time I read these threads and have no idea who it is everyone's talking about. Williams will always be timeless to me, though. Awful news indeed.

Holy fuck... he was on my short list of favorites. Of all time. Jesus this is a shit deal. :cry:

This hurts more than any celebrity death I can think of in a very long time.   :cry:

Looks like it was a suicide, death by asphyxia, so likely he hanged himself.  His movie I enjoyed the most was probably Good Morning Vietnam.  I remember watching it with my dad and we were both in stitches for almost the whole movie.

This is sad as fuck. :heartbreak: 

Fuuuuuuck.  I mean, the guy had problems forever, but you hoped he was getting help.  The drugs and alcohol have dogged him his entire life, he was fairly open about it when people bothered asking.  He had his demons and they finally got them.  

He had such a wide and varied career he never deserved the shit people gave him for his comedy.  RIP, Robin. I'll get the kids to watch Popeye in remembrance.

RIP. Hate to see people succumb to their inner demons, but now he is at peace I guess.

What the fuck is this shit....

Damn

So many movies starring him are on my replay favorite list... starting with Popeye of all things. This really is crushing.

Tough news.

Movie quote floating around fits well.

Its so sad that someone who made millions laugh and was admired / loved was in such a dark and lonely place in his life that he felt the need to end it.  Tragic end to an amazing man.  Like someone above said, this is the first time in a long time Ive actually been truly bummed out over a celebrity death

Nanu Nanu

Damn it.

So bummed about this :( . Watched him again and again in Mrs. Doubtfire, loved his weird appearances at Letterman's and there's a lot of Mork & Mindy in my childhood memories.

Hook was one of my favorite movies as a kid.

Suicide is a great way to take all the sadness and unhappiness out of what is one of the greatest losses in Hollywood this year, and possibly this decade.

Fake Edit: I'm not saying this makes it the opposite of sad and unhappy, I'm just saying I feel nothing because I don't feel for the suicidal.

Today officially sucks.   :cry:

Very sad.

News like this usually makes me angry, but in this instance, all I can feel is sad.  He was unique and treasured.

He's been bipolar his whole life. I'm kinda surprised it hadn't happened sooner and louder.

He will be missed greatly.

Huh, I hadn't pegged you as one of those.

Yeah, it's strange to see someone succumb after holding out for so long. Seems like most people with mental disorders manage to find some peace - one way or the other - well before their 60s. That's a lot of inner conflict to go through. :cry:

I am starting to think life just gets harder the older one gets. :/

I don't know what that means and I'm not sure this is the thread to explain it. Feel free to PM me if you have a burning desire to explain your vague bullshit.

Edit: I would have preferred a drug overdose, and I'm hoping drugs led to this to be honest. At least then making an entirely selfish decision is explainable.

I've loved Robin Williams since forever!  Even when he babbles nonsense... maybe especially then.  I'm very sad.  Hopefully, I'll never be as sad as he obviously was.  :(

I think the more we learn about things like mental illness and depression, brain trauma, dementia, etc..., the harder it becomes to automatically dismiss suicide as something selfish. You can never really know all the factors that lead to people doing something like this. I don't imagine that he just woke up this morning and decided he really regretted signing on for Mrs. Doubtfire 2 and decided it was time to take himself out of the game.

Ultimately I guess you can think his death isn't sad because he gave up. Other people might choose to respect that he fought whatever demons it was he was fighting for as long as he did.

Man, FUCK THIS MONDAY.  :uhrr:

I am shocked he made it out the cocaine fueled comedy of the 80s.

Crazy, lovable, genius.  RIP.

 :heartbreak:

So in your world depression is a choice and not an illness?

You'll have to excuse Schild, he's from Texas.

Horrid news.

Schild, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about and it's this view of mental illness that stops people speaking out about it.  The fucking Depression thread over yonder and the amount of people HERE that YOU KNOW chiming in should suggest your comments are well, well out of place and fairly fucking offensive.

Just Saying.

This news saddened me.

Hey look, schild is being a fuckwit again. It seems to be getting worse, too.

Let's not make this thread about Schild.

This news really gutpunched me. More even than Rik, earlier this year. And I don't even like many of Williams' movies.

Yeah, this. I don't really care much about celebrity death notices, but this one brought my day down a notch - just because I do like a lot of his work.

At least we've still got Bill Murray.

But not Harold Ramis.   :heartbreak:

damnit  :sad:

 :sad_panda:

This saddens me, even though I was never really a fan of his. Suicide (if that is what happened) is always a terrible thing, but it's also a complicated thing and none of us can ever know what's really gone on inside the mind of someone who takes that route.

I think suicide is always a waste, but when it's someone very talented and loved by millions then it's a very public waste.

This has absolutely crushed the girl and I. We were both big fans of his, and we've both suffered from depression to varying degrees over the years (including a nearly successful suicide attempt by her this year), so this just hits home in the worst possible way.

I barely held it together at work overnight, but I wept like a child on the drive home.

Really sad. There's a 2010 piece in the Guardian that's been going around where he talked about why he started drinking again when he was filming in Alaska (and then stopped after three years) and you get this intense sense from it that this was someone who had been burning like a torch for so much of his life and now didn't know what to do when he was left with his sadder, more tired, more fearful self in his own head, when he had silent times. Bipolar isn't just the ups-and-downs of a day or week, I think in his case it was also the grand arc of his life, with no manic upswing yet to come.

 :heartbreak:

The problem as I've seen is looking too far ahead. There's a reason people say to take it one day at a time, because thinking about the rest of your life feeling like you do at that moment feeds into questions of why you should even bother.

You have to beat that day. You have to make it from one end to the other without giving into the crap that keeps you in the house driving yourself nuts with the running thoughts of you own mind. You have to ask for help, and you have to realize that it's not always going to be like this. There are changes for the better you can't see immediately. There are things that will enrich your life if you let people in. There are reasons to continue on if not just for yourself then for those that need you and love you.

Carpe diem, boys.

His loss is extremely sad. I also feel sad for his kids. His last instagram post was 2 weeks ago and was for his daughter's birthday. I read an article on Cracked.com of all places that talks about how comedy comes from a dark, lonely place and it made a lot of sense honestly.

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/robin-williams-why-funny-people-kill-themselves/ (http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/robin-williams-why-funny-people-kill-themselves/)

Honestly, I keep thinking about how people my mother's age talk about "the day the music died". For me, Monday felt like the day that laughter died. I know in the last few years it felt like he'd been coasting a bit and reusing the same gags but good god, he'd been doing it since the 70s, if he wanted to coast a bit, I think he was due.

That article by David Wong is really really good at explaining the mentality behind the comedy depression.

My dad likes to tell the story about how I watched Mork and Mindy all the time as a kid.  I guess I liked Mork so much that I talked my dad into letting me watch an HBO Robin Williams standup, because it was Mork! 

He said we watched 30 seconds, three fucks and a vagina before he turned it off. 

Coverage staying classy:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Buy_jGvIIAAq1Uy.jpg)

I'm not sure what is worse.  The press for doing that shit or the viewers for watching that shit. 

Fuck I hate people sometimes.

No, getting proper help is a choice.


-_-

The TV press are generally totally soulless fuckwits (moreso than marketing people) and celebrity press are the worst of the worst. Parasitic corpse humpers the lot of them.

Like a bunch of you, this death got to me more than most celebrity deaths, more than any I can ever think of in my life really. This was a guy who made some of my most cherished childhood films, a genuinely funny and inspirational guy. This guy on reddit is summing up all the responses from other comedians and actors, I think the volume and tone of the comments is remarkable. (http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2dacie/robin_williams_megathread/cjnlsiv)

His Reddit AMA from 10 months back (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1n41x1/robin_williams_its_time_for_a_convoluted_stream/) shows what a kind and funny guy he was too. What a sad loss.

Go fuck yourself and die you piece of shit.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82533/jeopardyfail.gif)

 :facepalm:

Way to be, random internet dude.

Oddly enough, someone made that same toast at Schild's wedding.

Is it normal for the bride to make toasts?

Was it you? ;D

schild's idea of just "getting the proper help" when you're suicidally depressed was pretty special.

Yes, if only the multimillionaire with a long history of being in and out of therapy, an AA membership going back decades, and a recent spell in rehab had just been able to get help he'd still be alive.

You're all missing the point.  Something, something, Darwin.

Joking aside, we should have a little :darwin: graphic for when it's actually appropriate.

I don't think ill of Schild for his views on suicide. Our life experiences drive who we are. It is far better to appreciate our differences of opinion and show empathy for the processes that forge each other than to hate those differences.

(http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Mrs-Doubtfire-middle-finger.gif)

I think ill of him for shitting them here in someone's RIP thread, but whatever. I'm glad I have all the memories of Robin's stuff growing up. His movies were a large part of my life experiences.

Keep that in mind the next climate change, gun control or evolution debate you get in to. It's just a difference of opinion, right?

I'm pretty sure it's ok to argue in argument threads. It's not really at all the same thing as derailing an RIP thread. (Which we are doing.)

It's a wee bit distasteful and something we usually attempt to avoid here. 

(http://i.imgur.com/5ca7Uo6.png)

One of my favorite movies as a kid and into adulthood.

(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110716233059/villains/images/6/62/Rainbow_Randolph_is_back!.jpg)

Cop: Are you okay?
Randolph: I don't know. I'm kinda fucked up in general, so it's hard to gauge.

A funny guy and a gamer too.

I always felt he was just a regular guy and was half baffled by his celebrity, but big enough to roll with it anyway. And anyone who couldn't see the pain behind the japes was just not looking very closely.

Interesting recollection by David Simon. On top of everything else he is probably responsible for The Wire existing.

http://davidsimon.com/robin-williams-a-brief-encounter/

God I loved that movie, Rainbow Randolph was such a great character.

That was fucking awesome.

Very awesome.

I love the way Simon's mind works. He is as fascinating as Mr. Williams.

Odds are decent someone here killed monsters in an MMO with him. I remember when we found him in the UO user database and were in disbelief.

Really sad.

It would have been awesome to be on voice comms with him doing a raid or pvp.

Sadly, a lot of his playing was before voice comms.

Similar experience in DAoC (I was the one that went data-diving for it, after he mentioned our game in an interview).  At some point, he sent his guildmates a pic of himself playing his character in DAoC, to prove it was really him.  Supposedly he played nearly every MMO.

--Dave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1uWvvMsL5w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1uWvvMsL5w)

A 2 minute mashup of some great roles. 

Me and my friend used to drive to school together sometimes and we would have his tape playing back in the 80's, GodSpeed kind sir...I always wanted to play video games or ride bikes with him, thinking it would be pretty cool.

Norm MacDonald tweets his goodbye to Williams. (http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2014/08/norm-macdonald-robin-williams-tribute)

That was pretty powerful.  Well done Norm.

 :heart: :heart: :cry: :cry:

Edit;  and then I read the Simon piece and the Norm twitter.  Shit, man.  Arg. 

I feel like I was a bit non-chalant on the last page so let me elaborate.

Robin Williams was one of the greatest comic minds I've ever had the pleasure of seeing work, whether that be in TV or Film or anywhere else. Possibly one of the greatest comic minds to ever have graced humanity. It's a terrible loss to have someone like that die of anything that isn't 'walking into an open manhole' or dying in his bed while sleeping at 102. My grandpa had the pleasure of meeting him when he was having heart surgery in the next room over from him. I've heard he was sweet and up-lifting to others even in that awful environment. So yes, I'm deeply saddened by his passing, particularly since my Grandpa is 94 and is basically 'on watch.'

That said, suicide. He left behind three children who may have kids and may never know their grandfather, one of the worlds greatest comic minds. That's the real shit. It's incredibly hard to respect someone, depression or not, for going out like that.

One of my friends and I were talking about it and I made a comment about Hunter S. Thompson, whose suicide had a, let's call it large, effect on me. I said that I think the difference between the two was that suicide was EXACTLY how Hunter should go out. He's a man who gets to decide when it happens. He lived by his own sword and died by his own sword. Robin Williams was not HST, and I simply can't muster the same amount of "feels" for his recent financial and emotional predicament.

It's a disease and it kills you.  It's that simple.  You're trying to make it complex because you don't get it, and that's fine, but you're Not Right.

It's a disease and it kills you.  You're basically sitting there saying that the guy who's cancer finally got him is a pussy for giving up.

It's a disease and it kills you.  It took me a long time to get to grips with it too after Jim went up into the spare bedroom and hung himself with electrical cord, leaving my wife one of those 'children' you speak of, but;

It's a disease and it kills you.  Jim wrote a lot of letters to his son and my wife before he went, he spoke a lot about the psych place the doc sent him to.  He talked of the pills he was on.  He spoke of how these urges would come on him and he didn't understand them and he liked his life, his wife, his kids and he didn't know where it came from.

At the end, it was just a disease.

And it killed him.

Stop worrying about his children and getting angry at him for something that I am almost certain they either understand already better than you or will certainly come to terms with, like my wife did.

I'm not getting at you, but I don't think you get it.  I didn't.  I was angry at him for a long time.  Even as I went through it myself, angry, angry, angry.  Hurt.  Sad.  He did it before his daughters wedding for Christ sake.  He brought sadness to my perfect day.  Much like would happen again when Elena was born.  On the same day as HIS birthday.

But I have all the respect in the world for Jim, his life, what he did, bringing my wife into the world, granting me his blessing to marry his daughter, liking me despite me being a cunt, helping me move house for the first time.

Yesterday, it was my daughters birthday.  It would have been Jims birthday.  Robin Williams died, in the same way Jim did.

And it's all great and tragic and wonderful and sad.  My heart goes out to Zach and Zelda and all his family as I know what a fucking BOMBSHELL they are currently dealing with.

He was a great man and a disease killed him.  Who am I talking about now ?  Doesn't really matter.

Hey ho. 

I really don't want to keep this particular line of discussion going in this thread, but I will say I'm totally of the opposite opinion when comparing the two deaths.  Suicide is complicated as others have pointed out, and it should never be totally dismissed, but Thompsons always felt like the selfish pointless suicide you were raging about earlier, rather than this.  Williams suffered from clinical depression throughout his entire life and struggled to cope with it (though drug addiction, drinking, meds, doctors, ect.).  As others have said, it’s a terrible medical condition to deal with that most of society just writes off, and it’s a tragedy that he finally lost that battle.

Hunter, on the other hand, did not have any mental or medical issues beyond what ever drugs he was pumping into his body caused.  I could be wrong (And somebody please correct me if so, I haven’t followed HST as much as many here), but he never battled with depression or anything like that through his life.  In the end, most accounts say he just got depressed at getting old and the shift towards conservatism in the US since George Bush got into office, then decided to end it one day while his family was in the other room.  It was entirely his choice (and kind of stupid to kill yourself over if it was due to the politics of the period).  Which made me feel, "Well, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, shit for brains," over his death.

I feel everybody has a right to decide when they check out of this life (though they should take into consideration to harm they’ll cause to other people by doing so), and I don’t want to belittle either of their deaths.  But Williams lost a battle with a disease.  HST just said “Fuck it, I give up.”  So I find it odd you were much more sympathetic with his suicide over this.

Hst had a lot of issues he was dealing with, his body was not working anymore and it was pretty much self applied pre-emptive euthanasia. It's neither here nor there really. People have a right to die. The thing about suicide is that people are often suffering from things that could have treatments. The tragedy is them not working or being provided, not the decision of the ill person - that's understandable and just really sad.

Williams doesn't owe you or 'the world' anything. People who knew him and loved him far more than you or me might be excused for being angry and shellfish while dealing with this, but what the fuck are you doing shitting up a thread where people are mourning?

I can only assume that you have your own issues that are causing you to act out like this, but there are better ways.

Sorry to hear about your situation IW, that must have been/be very hard. I only know what ive read on here, but I have a great amount of respect for you.

A little video on depression.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUHcc7ipGt0)May be informative for some of you who seem to have a somewhat cursory understanding of depression.

Do you mind if I show this post to some of my friends and family Ironwood? Within my extended family there's a lot of depression and other mental illness, yet despite the close experience there are still some who have an incredibly (and, I suspect willfully) ignorant view of it.

I'm very angry at some of the reporting of Williams death, despite having multiple briefings from mental health charities and care organisations far too many (UK at least) newspapers & news websites have reported it in a deeply irresponsible way. It's well known that detailed reporting of suicides is strongly correlated with subsequent spikes in similar suicides. The Sun and Metro in particular went out of their way to ignore reporting guidelines and clearly put lurid headlines and copy at a higher priority than the risk of leading to further suicides. I struggle to think of a profession I respect less than journalism at its worst.

The more I read about Robin Williams now the more respect I have for him and the sadder I am at his death.

Edit: Did a bit of searching about coverage while typing this and discovered that the US media simply doesn't bother with reporting guidelines regarding suicide. So, wow, good job there I guess.  :oh_i_see:

So we're, what...2 days or so removed from this, and every time I see an article or just sit here and think about it, I just feel worse.  What a miserable loss.  I never realized how bad he had it, but in retrospect it seems so apparent.  There have been a few celebrity deaths that were more painful than others, but in my lifetime this one takes the cake.  Michael Jackson's might rival it in terms of general hugeness, but it was far harder to empathize with or even relate to MJ.  He wasn't remotely lovable.

Ironwood, thanks for the perspective you put on it.  I've never actually personally known anyone who attempted it, so it is hard to understand that it is a disease. 

I just read that he also had been diagnosed with early stage Parkinsons.  Too sad.  I have no idea what the fuck I would do in his shoes.  People cope the best way they can, I guess.  My dad used to threaten suicide a lot.  He also did things like lock himself in a room with a gun and pretend he was going to shoot himself.  Of course, I realise now he had no intention of doing that... he just wanted to scare us.  It worked because when I was a kid I believed he was going to kill himself any minute.  My mom was smart though.  She never believed him and never tolerated his crazy behaviour.  She simply ignored it or went next door to my Aunt's house and drank coffee and smoked some Benson and Hedges. 

This was posted on Facebook by a conservative I spent a lot of time 'debating' with. He also joined me in calling Rush an asshole over what Rush said after Williams died. I think people like Schild could do with reading this:

At this rate I will probably break down and cry sometimes around Saturday afternoon.

Why wait? It's a big club. Join it.

Ironwood, I don't have anything to say but, "yeah."

I can't say more.

"Yeah."

We are going to sit around the TV tonight and watch Mrs. Doubtfire.  I wonder if I'll manage not to cry.

I sat down to watch Hook and I had completely forgotten that Bob Hoskins had died in April.  Last night was a really sad night.

Can anyone share how this was reported and viewed in Asia?  

fake edit: Removed dumb comments.

More tears than normal watching Dead Poets Society last night.

Death to Smoochy didn't make me laugh as much as it usually does.

We've been watching a number of his movies. I've always noticed this but it really screams through now: in any dramatic performance, even with funny parts, he richochets from manic stand-up improv to palpable sadness and melancholy, usually with a bit of anger intervening between the two. With actors whose lives eventually implode in some fashion, their careers in retrospect sometimes look like a lengthy public revelation of a private life. He's really intensely so. Look at him in Good Morning Vietnam after he gets suspended--withdrawn, despairing, unreachable until he's trapped in a situation where he more or less has to trip back into the manic, extroverted persona.

Speaking as another person in the "fucked up childhood leads to a very black sense of humor" club, it's never a surprise to me when a comedian goes out like that.  Humor's a coping mechanism born in a very bad place, and the better at it someone is, the more fucked up they inevitably are.  I can't think of a single great comedian who lived a long life and died naturally.  They either punch out early on drugs or suicide, or wear their bodies out because they just don't give a fuck about a future of being a broken-down has-been and live wholly for the moment.  It's just how it is.  Happy contentment isn't funny and doesn't make people funny.  But when you look around at the ruin of your life and all you can do is laugh about it?  A comedian is born.

Both the Cracked article and David Simon were spot-on.  Funny's the mask over a very unhappy person.  Some have their stuff together better than others and make it further than people like Mitch Hedberg or Andy Kaufman, but it's not exactly a secret among comedians about how their life cycle is likely going to play out.

George Burns.

 :-P

Bob Hope, George Carlin, Red Buttons, Bob Newhart.

Lots of comedians use it as a coping mechanism, most of those popular with the ever-cynical Gen X and younger generations for certain, but not all.   We get the comedians we deserve?

And Robin's mentor, Jonathan Winters. But funny men that push the envelope? It seems they tend to go out much fast - brighter and faster the star and all that.

There are plenty of great comedians that live to ripe old ages.  Really, you get to the point where you have money and acclaim, and many choose to work on their demons.  In some cases, it might be good comedy they have to exorcise as the mental states that lead to genius are what is slowly eating them away. 

Sometimes they only have a limited time of being on top of their game?  Sure.  But that's the same for nearly any popular or artistic pursuit;  eventually you age out of being relevant or you don't "get" what comedy is about anymore. 

The people that don't burn up in a blaze of glory generally get completely underrated or marginalized in later life as their life experiences age them out, and their formerly groundbreaking shit is now SOP.  See "Seinfeld is unfunny" on TVtropes.


A big part of it is we the audience tend to overemphasize the genius of our tragic heroes.  Nirvana is the greatest band of the last 30 years because Kurt Cobain went out at his peak, rather than recording 5 to 10 more decent to pretty good albums.  John Belushi is a comic master because he didn't hang around long enough to become a shell of himself like Dan Aykroyd or Chevy Chase.  Compare how John Lennon is thought of versus Paul McCartney.

Good points.

And yet, Bill Murray did his best work in his later years. (Lost in Translation, Broken Flowers, ...)

It may be a special case because I think Murray's style of smug fits much so better with an older gent. 

Murray in Stripes is somehow not quite the same as Murray in Groundhog Day, or later.  He seems to be sneakier with his snark as he ages.

I thought of Bill Murray when I was writing that.  He was doing good work for years, with a couple of renaissances.  His early comedy stuff, Ghostbusters, Groundhog Day, What about Bob, Rushmore and then his later more serious stuff with Lost in Translation on.  Part of it is definitely that he made the switch from comedy to drama (with some comedy).  He's certainly done his most critically acclaimed stuff in recent years, but his best work?  He was an amazingly funny guy who created some all-time great comedy moments in the '80s.  Just for me, Ghostbusters and Caddyshack are in the highlight reel of my childhood.  He didn't win any awards for it, but fuck me if that wasn't career defining stuff.

Some people just have longer shelf lives.  Some people don't come into their own until later in life (Jon Stewart?).  Some are able to switch up what they do (Denis Leary from comic accused of stealing Bill Hicks act to Emmy winning actor/producer or Tom Hanks from star of Big, Dragnet and Bosom Buddies to acclaimed dramatic actor.)

Seinfeld?

Seinfeld is Unfunny (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunny)

Does it count if you watched Seinfeld from the start and always found it unfunny ?

Don't we have a rule against linking TVTropes?  If we don't, shouldn't we?

--Dave (That's another hour of my life I can't get back)

I can't say since I never watched it because I found it unfunny to begin with.

Ugh, we're doing this. Y'all are being lame.

These pretzels are making me thirsty

The general principle would probably apply to situations where the reaction was negative.

I thought Seinfeld was just okay, but I'm a little young for it. The season finale happened when I was in like, 8th grade, and there isn't much there for an angsty teen to relate to. Since then I've seen reruns here and there, but don't like sitcoms enough to attempt a marathon.

No, but that makes you a liar.

(http://i.imgur.com/NeKm8.gif)

Edit: I should say - it's POSSIBLE someone doesn't like Seinfeld. That's a thing that is not complete fantasy. However, that is not a problem with Seinfeld but a problem with the person. There are things are are objectively unfunny - like Carrot Top. The people that like him are wrong to like him. But finding Seinfeld unfunny isn't a case of Seinfeld being unfunny. It's a sign your mechanism for humor is fucked up.

Also, I want to say I waited for this thread to derail itself before posting, as I'd done enough damage already. It took a LOT of willpower not to respond to Johnny Cee with "Seinfeld says otherwise."

Not a single person I knew when it was on actually liked Sienfield, me included. Maybe it was some kind of European thing, or it was some kind of humour that only applied to Americans, but everyone around here basically hated it or at least found it totally unfunny.

I can't speak for everyone, but I feel like it's pretty common knowledge that your mechanism for funny has some shorts in the wiring.

Basically, your post doesn't surprise me at all. It's kind of like saying "sand is sandy."

Aye, I didn't want to derail with the reply to Khaldun about an Actor Acting, but hey ho.

Derailing a sad thread is part of healing.  All I'll say further on this matter is 'Jewish New York Bloke and Friends' didn't really translate that well for me.  Possibly cultural, but every single episode of Seinfeld I watched I just sat there as the credits rolled, unamused with a 'and ?' look on my face.  I would imagine that there are probably people in other countries who react the same way to Connollys material, or, to try and be relevant, Kevin Bridges.  It was the same with Curb your Enthusiasm, so I suspect it was the writing or something.  Who knows.

And those who are having a hard time with Williams films, for the love of God, don't watch Fisher King again.   Just don't.

Yeah, I've actually been trying to figure out if I dare.  I really want to, I remember thinking he was brilliant in that movie.  Haven't seen it since it came out, I think.

The other one that destroyed me was "Jack".  Not considered in the pantheon of great Robin Williams movies, but I'm pretty sure it made me bawl for some reason.  Sketchy on the details.

Fast Edit:  For the record, I am a giant sap.  Mrs. Doubtfire the other day almost brought me to tears and made me feel barfy.

I've watched two or three Seinfeld episodes at friends house. They're fine and amusing, but I'm afraid I don't get the hype.

I loved the series but I've found is hasn't aged well for some reason, I have all of them on dvd but don't rewatch them very often.  I can rewatch other series over and over again though.

I've found most people who didn't like Seinfeld couldn't get past the idea that the characters weren't likable, which is reasonable I guess.  The show got funnier as it progressed but the characters got even more unlikable so it never won those people over.

There are cultural elements in relation to Seinfeld, I'm sure.  There are British comedic things which I don't want to admit that I find terribly unfunny - or at least not so funny that it deserved to run that long - and risk having people waste time telling me that I'm wrong.

I'm less of a Curb Your Enthusiasm fan than Seinfeld due to the lack of balance.  You have to really like "Larry David embarrasses himself" humor since there isn't (last I watched) much else going on in the show.  Seinfeld balances that humor with a cast of wacky characters, and so offers more variety.

I expect that the main thing to take away from the Seinfeld discussion is that it is now embedded in culture to a degree such that it is valuable to have a knowledge of the show so that you can participate in some discussions.  If only to get the references that people make, nevermind the influence on later television.


To what degree would you attribute the Seinfeld Is Unfunny trope to this?

I dunno, I can watch Seinfeld all day every day and still find it funny.

Add me to the list of people who was meh on Seinfeld. It was the type of show I might watch briefly if it was on a rerun but I generally got bored and looked for other shows on before the episode finished. That's not to say there weren't things that made me snicker when I'd catch it but overall the show felt...smug and I just never got into it. I don't hate it by any means but I never got the love for it either. I've seen maybe 10 total episodes and don't feel like I've missed much.

There is filler in Seinfeld, and the first season or two is MEH.  At some point you get to Frank Costanza and it's awesome.

Yet I found Robin Williams funny all the time, without the need for filler.

I liked him much more for his acting/dramatic work.  His comedy routine saturated my brain pretty quickly.  Way too hyper.

I had to look that up but it's a good possibility.  I do watch Sunny in Philidelphia a lot which takes the idea to an extreme.  I'd like to blame the laugh track but I still watch Fawlty Towers and that has a hideous laugh track.

My TiVo is set to record and keep up to 10 episodes. I watch one or two almost every night as I am getting ready to go to sleep. I like something familiar that I have seen a lot to help me get to sleep (BlackAdder, Red Dwarf, and BBT also work). I still laugh, and I am constantly amazed at some episodes that have 3 or 4 hilarious subplots all in one ep. The writing was amazing.

If you are American and don't like Seinfeld, I don't understand you. I didn't like it at first until I really started watching it and its best moments are really fucking good. Its worst moments are mediocre and can get on your nerves but episodes like the masturbation contest? Just insanely funny. And that episode in particular was as funny as it was because NO ONE would ever even remotely discuss masturbation on TV, much less devote an entire episode to it. The closest I ever remember was smug one-liners about Bud Bundy on Married with Children. Always Sunny has taken that unlikeable characters trope and amped it to a sickness of 11.

And as much as I liked Seinfeld, I cannot stand Curb Your Enthusiasm. 30 minutes of awkard Larry David-ness is just not funny to me. But I could watch Frank Costanza go nuts for days. Humor is subjective.

As for Robin Williams, I remember my older brother buying "Reality... What a Concept" on 8-track and listening to it because I loved Mork and Mindy. I would have been around 8. I can't believe my parents let me listen to it. It's SO GODDAMN BRILLIANT and so much of that humor went over my head at the time. But I still quote lines from that show. My wife will pinch me and I'll say "You touch me like you know me." Just fucking brilliant.

I loved him in Good Will Hunting, which is one of my favorite movies of all time. He did a great job in Dead Poet's Society, Insomnia, and One Hour Photo. He was great when he toned down or turned off the humor. It all makes sense in hindsight, but that's hindsight bias at work.

I can't help but think that the turns Robin's career has taken in recent years contributed to the suicide. He was working on Mrs. Doubtfire 2, and he starred in comedy called *The Crazy Ones* that relied on his particular brand of humor to carry it (and it didn't).

Bill Murray always had a serious side to him -- see Razor's Edge. I'm glad he's been able to transition his career and star in some good movies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bVgilYncao

David Letterman on Robin Williams. The last part recapping Robin's appearances on Dave's show... ugh.   :cry:

I'll name one. Are You Being Served? What the hell, Britain?

You are crazy. I thought The Crazy Ones was fantastic, though having worked in the advertising business for 17 years, a lot of that struck close to home.

The show felt smug because it was supposed to be smug. The last episode(s) had the group getting arrested for watching a fat guy get carjacked and they crack jokes about said fatness. I mean, comeon.


My problem with British comedy isn't that its unfunny. A lot of it IS unfunny, but that's not my main concern. My main concern with british TV is that they put a lot of people on TV that are literally too ugly to be entertaining. Offensively ugly television. Also, they're gonna chase that Monty Python dragon forever and well, they peaked Britain a little too early. I would say Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant single-handedly saved British Television, but they really didn't. They're just the cream of a very awkward crop. That said, I don't see a world where you like Gervais and Merchant and not Seinfeld. They're nearly 100% the same brand of elitist, smart humor. Gervais simply took it out of the 90s and gave it modernity. So much so that there are entire episodes of The Office and An Idiot Abroad that could have been Seinfeld episodes.

Curb Your Enthusiasm is less... compelling. Larry David is the funnier writer (of the pair, being Larry and Jerry), but he's way worse in terms of delivery and on-screen presence.

Seinfeld hasn't aged well because there's very few things uglier than clothes and New York in the 90s. See the Gervais comments above.

Thanks for this. It reminded me of why I always loved Letterman (even though I haven't watched his show is a decade or more). Him and Robin together were very funny, because they cracked each other up. That is the key to knowing if someone is really funny or not- if they can make other funny people laugh. I love that dynamic.

Not sure I am up for a Robin Williams movie just yet, but I am going to make it a point to watch Dave at least a few times before he goes away too.


e- I think the reason I like Curb is because it is so amazingly obvious that Larry David (or a large portion of Larry David at least), IS George Costanza.

I like Curb, but it's so uncomfortable in its humor that I can only watch like one episode a month at most.

I was the opposite. I don't want to sentence anyone to a life of addiction, but I lost interest when he dumped coke. I think the only thing I really love past then is Vietnam, which more or less creates a character with the similar type of hyper humor.

Seconded.

I was going to say that programme was hardly representative of British comedy but actually it's reminded me that, basically, all BBC light entertainment was like that and I hated every fucking minute - from "Hi-de-hi" to "Only Fools & Horses" by way of "Last of the Summer Wine" etc.  Never understood why they were so popular or considered funny.

On the other hand, some of those were very much "of the time" (that time being mid to late seventies) and wouldn't stand up now at all.  That's as much a lame defense as I'm going to offer.

Yeah, none of that shit is funny.

And I fucking lived here and lived through it.

"Allo Allo."  Fuck Me.

Fucking Chronic.  It's like watching people die in mass graves.  It is the Anti-Amusement.

Bear in mind for every Good Show, we must have spit out about 200 utter, utter fucking chronically dross ones.

Last of the Summer Wine was a hilarious show about OAPs dying.  Winner.

.... is an unfunny cunt.

k

I like you too much to give you a K Gif. But don't think for a second it didn't cross my mind.

Ironwood (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx1YzGpQeVk), he gets it. You don't like him.

I agree with Ironwood on Gervais.

Still think Seinfeld was funny. I guess there are people out there that don't, but most of them fall into hipster bullshit category about it.

Oh, come on, that new show Derek is amazing.

Tastes vary and whatnot.  He's one chap I'm kinda glad we exported.

And no, Engels, I didn't find Derek particularly funny either.  It's entirely possible that I'm broken, so if it helps to think that, go right ahead. 

I do like Stephen Merchant though, possibly because he's a genuinely funny and clever chap. 

Good ad.

I appreciated Seinfeld (and Curb Your Enthusiasm) though I wouldn't call them my absolute favorite comedies ever.

I appreciated The Office (British version) but Gervais is such an asshole in other stuff that he does that I can't get over a feeling of dislike for him.

I enjoy Gervais products more than Gervais himself.  Meaning Karl Pilkington via the podcast and that travel show, but mostly the podcast which is probably due to Merchant in a large part.

Gervais just always comes off as smarmy and unlikeable. I'm not a fan of the "awkward humor" movement though like the Office.

I am in the shameful group of people that finds Gervais' laugh hilarious. I know many find it grating - but something about it gets me rolling.

My eyebrows are not high enough to not enjoy him or Seinfeld or any comedian. You either allow yourself to enjoy their brand/style of comedy or not. Most of my buddies HATE Izzard with a passion for his tangents and delivery. I find most of his stuff funny and some of it not so much. I laugh at the parts I enjoy and smile through the rest.

Back to the topic, I wasn't a big fan of Robin Williams the standup comedian. Like Izzard, some of it was funny as hell, some was just chaos and too much of a chore for me to find the funny. But the actor, I liked pretty much all his portrayals.

I love Ricky Gervais, but I can see how some wouldn't. His humor is definitely not for everyone. I'd imagine he probably is smarmy and unlikeable, but you could probably describe me that way too.  :why_so_serious:

He is a smug cock, which is why I love him. His masterful trolling of the religious on Twitter is pure  :awesome_for_real:

Yeah put me in the camp that really doesn't like smugness in my comedians. Unlikeable is fine, petulant, mean or even downright nasty but smugness really turns me off with comedians. Also the whole 'new atheist' thing but I guess that's very, very tangentially related through Gervais.

Nasty and mean are fine when it's also about self-loathing. When the comedian and some favored subset of pals/supporters/etc. are exempt from the hatred, the best thing you can say is that it's smug. If it's worse, it's something like Andrew Clay--ideology posing as comedy.

So Seinfeld was often funny because there was some self-loathing going on. The misanthropy was total. This is what I like about Louis CK: his view of the world turns inward as much as outward, and sees in both directions with the same brutal and funny view.

Gervais doesn't really do that most of the time.

That's a pretty good summary of my thoughts.  His self-loathing can be pretty good, though.

Gervais was at his best talking on the phone to Karl Pilkington after subjugating him to terrible vacations.

That said, as far as one-liners go, I prefer Gervais to just about anyone. He's so fucking smart it's annoying.

I love Ricky Gervais, too.  I thought The Office was brilliant and he was definitely the star.  Gareth came in a close second.  I'm totally hooked on An Idiot Abroad, too.  I like uncomfortable humour so I guess that's why.  I'm also a big Brian Limond fan.  If you've not seen his show, Limmy's Show!, you should, as well as some of his other stuff.  I think he might be insane in real life, though so catch him while you can.  I also used to watch Seinfeld, which I thought was mostly very funny.  Again, uncomfortable humour. 

Out of all of them, I like I love Limmy best and would love to pinch his cheeks.  Unless Reggie Watts shows up first. 

Robin Williams, though, he was sweet and funny and crazy and a little dirty and never made me uncomfortable and I adored him.  I'm still very sad every time I think about what happened to him.  And me... I don't usually mind when celebs pop their clogs, even the young ones, because they do it so often.  Robin Williams hit me hard, though.  I'm still surprised it bother me so much.

One of the main things that gets to me about this is the fact he was in rehab on several occasions. He took the initiative and did what we believe is what you are supposed to do. I also can't imagine he wasn't in therapy for depression - I mean if the man goes to rehab to get clean, he is cognizant enough to know when there is a problem. So in my mind, and this is only based on what I have read obviously, he took corrective action when he needed it in his life. And yet, he still found life too unbearable to get through - and juxtaposing that with his on stage/screen persona of the lovable comedic clown? Well if someone like like couldn't cope...

Depression is fickle.  The help means he was probably with us a lot longer than had he not received it.

Almost certainly.

Also, he had quite a bit of bad news to take in at the time.

(Also, Brian Limond is insane.  I had the pleasure of speaking to one of his co-workers at the web development firm they worked in.  His stories were illuminating.  Funny chaps tho.)

I will speculate that Robin saw Parkinson's as something that would end his ability to do the one thing that kept him from descending into an inescapable emotional pit for his entire life.

The best therapy isn't going to work for everyone. The problem always with mental illnesses is that they're wound around and in our sense of self the same way a tumor is growing in your own flesh, using your own genes. Sometimes you can take it out, sometimes you can shrink it to manageability, and sometimes it's somewhere so deep that there isn't much to be done about it.

It's the same thing that Michael J. Fox has, no?  He's working hard for research and ways to keep a lot of the symptoms at bay and he's had it for ages.  I wish Robin Williams could have stuck it out a wee bit longer.  It was caught early and you never know what can happen.  I swear this must be a disease that attacks nice people with kind faces.  This whole thing keeps making me want to cry in my soup.  :(

Alas hon, it ain't rational.

When Pratchett goes, it might be rational.  This ?  Not so much.

Pratchett has already spoken quite a lot about how he is at peace with the notion of euthanasia I think?

Exactly my point.  For him, if it's necessary, it'll be a rational choice which I'll just raise a glass to.

Just in case anyone's ready to point out hypocrisy on my part.   :why_so_serious:

(I used 'might' because he still has time to get hit by a bus or some shit.)

Since it's Alzheimer's you would have to make those sorts of plans in advance, I suppose, because if you wait too long, you'll just forget.  I can understand that much more because you'd be able to discuss it with family and friends and they could be prepared and supportive.  You're not going to shock anyone or, in the case of young children, teach them that suicide is an acceptable way to deal with depression or any other sort of problem.  I mean, srsly, how many teenagers have a major life changing crisis?  Err... like every day?  Having said that, why on earth would Robin Williams kill himself the way he did?  Hanging?  Why not OD or anything less horrifying?  Why leave that image in the minds of his family?  That bit, I don't get. 

The old adage is that Men go violently, women use pills.  Hanging is the less violent way of killing oneself that comes to men. I imagine not wanting to be seen has 'just having relapsed and fucked up' and not "ultimately having let the pills win" might also have been part of the decision for a former addict such as Mr. Williams.


There was a story not too long ago on NPR morning edition about just this. The mother had made plans and discussed for a long time, and finally, one weekend after a particularly bad 'i don't know who the fuck I am' bout decided the time had come.  It was terrifying and touching at the same moment.

Fairly sure I answered that one.

You did.  Sorry.  I think I might have just ranted or summat.

Just needs to be repeated..

He is too funny and he's a sweet old cunt. 

What happened to you, Sir T?  You used to be so sweet and shy and giggly! 

You know, when the Parkinson's thing came out right after his suicide Michael J. Fox is the first person I thought of. I can just see him going "God damn it Robin."

The hatred that Schild has for me has obviously tarnished my soul :(