f13.net

Uh-oh:

http://us.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Almost 300 on board. Maybe shot down by a missile  :ye_gods:

WTF WTF WTF  Malaysian Air 777 shot down over Ukraine??? (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-plane-crash-boeing-jet-carrying-295-people-crashes-in-ukraine-9612882.html)

Yeah, they're not having much luck.

That what, 3 Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 that have had incidents in less than one year, two of them killing everyone? Yeah, I know this was in a hot territory, but I's bet it had more to do with being a 777 than a missile.

Its either something really wrong with a particular batch of 777s sold to Malaysia, or, a bit more likely, something systemically wrong with Malaysian airplane maintenance and/or flight check protocol.

Sky News doing the fucking usual.

"We have No Evidence that it was Shot Down By A Missile."

"If it was a missile, where would it have come from ?"

24 hour news cycle sucks balls.

I can't say that flying over a war zone is exactly the smartest thing they could be doing. The airline has bad luck, but also seems to be run be complete incompetents. Bankrupt and either absorbed by another airline or just tits up by 2016.

I wonder how accurate this is:

(http://i.imgur.com/s84p2Y7.png?1)

edit: some dude on Neogaf posted this.

This. Every indication is that the airline is run by cretins.

I'm pretty sure that isn't unique to Malaysia though.  :why_so_serious:

The potential scary part of this is that the plane was flying at 33,000 feet when it went down.  Which is above the height that the rebels are currently known to be able to hit.  Which is why when a Ukrainian transport jet was shot down a few days ago in the same area, flying at a similar altitude, Ukraine said it had to come from he Russian border.  Several other planes have been shot down in the same area the last few days, and many think its Russia.  This all started after a shell (fired by who knows who) came across the border and killed somebody in Russia.  Russia vowed terrible consequences, and suddenly plans have been falling out of the sky every day.

So either:
Russia gave the rebels a top end anti air system and they are now shooting at everything like children
Russia accidentally shot down a passenger jet from an Asia country trying to fuck ukraine
The Ukrainians accidently shot it down (which makes no sense because they are the only ones with planes to shoot down in that area)
The 777 magically broke again right as it was flying over an area where a lot of planes have been shot down over the last 4 days.

Obviously first two are most likely, and is going to do some diplomatic damage if true.

Back in June pro-Russian rebels in Donetsk claimed to have captured a BUK missile system (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262). Those are easily capable of hitting aircraft at that altitude. The article calls it a 'missile defence system' but the primary purpose is anti-air (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system). Depending on how you define 'rebel' then they also have fighter jets.

Ah, missed that somehow, thanks.  Though was just reading an article where a spokesman for the rebels said they couldn't have done it because they only have the tech for 4,000 feet.  But that claim is probably to be expected either way.

Yeah, that pretty much fits with the Russian/Soviet way of operating. Do terrible, morally reprehensible stuff and then just lie about it. I know it's not unique to them, but it's so universally used by them I just don't think Russians are capable of being honest.

Also, your first two scenarios in the other post are really just the same thing since it's pretty well established that most of the "rebels" are actually Russian Army.

I know, which is why I said either of them would be pretty damaging diplomatically (to Russia) if any sort of evidence can be found for either.  Though I expect a wave of propaganda, denial, and fog of war to drown out everything around this pretty soon, so who knows.

So apparently the rebels say they have recovered the flight recorders and are sending them to Moscow for analysis.

And if it was mechanical failure I would certainly blame poor maintenance before Boeing as even the rich airlines have been cutting corners on maintenance the last few years, an airline from outside of the US or Europe is even more likely to have skimped on proper maintenance as their inspection regimes are even more full of holes.

Agreed, my company would kill to be able to fly 777's. They have smart diagnostics that practically troubleshoot the plane for you. Unless you are pants on head retarded they are ultra-safe.

Love that the first reaction on an airliner getting shot down by Russians is "Haha those fucking Malays are sure shitty at running a airline".

No, not love. The other word.

Well, that's it.  Show's over.  Move along, Citizen -- nothing to see here.  Definitely a maintenance failure.  Absolutely no missiles.  The official report says so.  We swear.

Indeed (if true).  GRU officers running the rebels were probably ordered to take the site at all costs and get that thing ASAP, or die trying.

And as I predicted, the propaganda is already hitting.  Russian news sources are now running the story that it was possibly Putins plane the Ukrainians were trying to hit:

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

 :awesome_for_real:

Hey man, I blamed it on being a 777, then a missile. And you have to admit, getting a pass on one of your fatal airliner incidents because of a missile still doesn't leave them with a great record this year.

Ukraine releases what they claim are intercepted separatist communications...


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

Hey, are we doing that jumping to conclusions on the internet thing again ?  That's always funny.

Oh come on, the Soviets do something horrible and show the world their ass. Predicting that is never the wrong way to go. It's probably a pretty safe thing to assume about us too.

From Aviation Herald: (http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0)


Seems likely the separatists shot down a full passenger plane.   :?

Soviets?

[Secundo]Believe what you want, I have a website that will prove this was a Ukrainian false-flag as directed by the Jews. The alleged "separatist" websites now being wiped were actually put up by the United States on instructions from the Jews. THEEEEEE JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWSSSSSSS[/Secundo]


They can change names as much as they want, but they still do and say the same shit. They just don't have a buffer zone of countries they "liberated"

About those websites (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0717/Web-evidence-points-to-pro-Russia-rebels-in-downing-of-MH17). I don't know how long the separatist rebels can continue claiming that it wasn't them.

Discussion with my wife first thing this morning.

Your parents are flying to Amsterdam today aren't they?
Yes.
Fuck (didnt realise at the time the plane was flying out of Amsterdam).
Where are they flying via?  Not KL?
No, Dubai.  They're flying Ethiad.  Why?
Thank Christ for that.


How long until Malaysia Airlines goes broke as everyone changes flight to another carrier?

I just don't see how their radar operators could have mistaken a 777 for an AN-26. The 777 is more than twice as big as an AN-26 and almost twice as fast. Not to mention it was at almost 10,000 feet above the AN-26 flight ceiling.

Also, an AA missile with a range of 2500 to 3000 meters? That's ridiculous. It would be useless.

I don't know if they are the only ones who did/have done/would do it, but flying a plane over a war zone with 1000 feet of clearance (no fly was 32k, plane was at 33k, or so I have seen reported) seems like an exceptionally bad idea. Especially when your name and public confidence in your airline is approximately dick since since MH370. I wonder if they let the passengers know they were flying into a potentially hostile area?

I am not saying the blame does not lie squarely with the shitheads who fired the missile, but I am openly wondering why you would even take the slightest glimmer of a chance, especially given your very recent history?

There are some shoulder-fired missiles designed for attacking helicopters and ground-attack airplanes that don't have much range.  But the separatists have already shot down an AN-26, so they have something with better ranges.

As for mistaking them: Most targeting/tracking radars do not try to identify the target by its return, because that is too easy to spoof, and it's entirely possible that the people operating this system were not fully trained (especially if it were captured).  If they were looking for a plane at a certain place and time, they'd probably select the most likely candidate, lock it up, and hit the big red button.  Civilian jets wouldn't even know they were being painted.

--Dave

Higher altitude means lower fuel efficiency, and 33k is pretty close to the normal operation ceiling for most airliners.  Until this event, everybody was using Ukraine airspace as normal except for right around the Crimean peninsula.

--Dave

Large number of high level AIDs researchers on the plane headed to international conference in Australia.

Commercial flights were cleared to fly above 32k feet if going over that area.  It might just be no one took it seriously that the rebels may have some deadly anti-aircraft missiles that could hit up that far. 

From what I've read, they only had those missiles because of a very recent takover, as it was military gear left over from taking over that particular city.

Video and high-res pictures from the wreckage are starting to show up in the regular places. It's just bad. Little kids still buckled into seats that came lose from the plane bad. Adults I don't give two shits about normally, but kids always bug me. Going back and forth between that dutch girls passport photo and the chairlump really bothered me. Not that it changes anything, I just needed to say that and my wife doesn't want me talking about stuff like that in front of the kids.

To prepare us for what we would have to deal with as journalists, my university lecturer showed unedited video of Lockerbie after the Pan Am crash.

It still haunts me despite having seen other gruesome stuff online. I wouldn't go seeking out unedited MH17 vision. I've seen too many horrific photos already today in the course of my work.

My flight went over the Balkans en route from Sydney to London during the Kosovo crisis, when NATO was bombing Belgrade. Could see Harriers flying below us. I did wonder about it, but we were considered safely out of range of the action.

The response from Russia/separatists to this has been the only (very darkly) humorous thing in Ukraine in a while. The separatists have been deleting all tweets with pictures or mention of their 'capturing' BUK AA systems and vehicles (it's not totally clear if they really captured it or got something from Russia they then pretended to have captured) and boasts about shooting down a 'Ukranian' plane. RT has been either making accusations it was an attempt on Putin's life or posting articles blaming incompetent Ukranians for hitting the wrong thing while arguing that the Separatists don't have the competence to use these systems so it couldn't be them.

Still I really hope this gets a more significant reaction from the West about the situation. It's such a fucking clear indication of why pushing instability and providing offensive capabilities to groups in a region fucks everyone and why countries shouldn't be doing that much of it.

There's some questions over whether it was captured equipment from the Ukrainians or a Russian hand-me-down they were parading as captured. Either way they've since deleted all their tweets boasting about it and started claiming it could only have been the Ukrainian government since they don't have any kind of anti-air capacity.

Its interesting how every little ground conflicts like this change airline paths.  I flew from Warsaw to Doha at the start of the year.  The path took us right over northern Syria and through the heart of the combat zone.  I mean like, we almost flew right over Aleppo, and I had just been reading the news the day before about a major battle raging around the city.  Made me kind of nervious, but figured if they were allowed to do it, must be safe, so stopped worrying.

Not anymore.   :ye_gods:

Posted this in the Ukraine thread, but actually meant to post it here:

Its interesting how every little ground conflicts like this change airline paths.  I flew from Warsaw to Doha at the start of the year.  The path took us right over northern Syria and through the heart of the combat zone.  I mean like, we almost flew right over Aleppo, and I had just been reading the news the day before about a major battle raging around the city.  Made me kind of nervious, but figured if they were allowed to do it, must be safe, so stopped worrying.

Not anymore.   ACK!

And that hand on the clock that counts down the time when that area of the world turns itself into one giant mushroom cloud just ticked a little closer to midnight.   This is not going to end well....

They have at least one BUK system. A SAM system specifically designed to counter B-52 bombers - which are big and fly very high.

Ugh.

I'm sure they'd be glad to know that the people who shot them down and the people behind those people won't have so much as "Boo" said to them because of reasons.

(http://i.imgur.com/RRwTeC5.jpg)

Pretty damning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo

Meanwhile rt.com still blaming Ukraine for shooting it down.

Gonna be some big lawsuits for both Malay Air for their reckless path, and Russia for pulling the trigger.

Can we pull some Israelis out of Gaza and point them at Putin, Syriana style?

They were a thousand feet above the no fly zone so they had the right to be there. I doubt that they'd be liable. And god luck getting money out of the Russians, or the Provisional Government of Ruspuppetstan.

That Russian Internet Defense Force someone was talking about a few pages back is throwing up shit in comment sections and message boards all over the place. Ukrainian AA shot it down, Ukrainian airplane was flying between the airliner and the AA battery to make the AA launch, then sidestepped out of the way making the missile hit the passenger jet, CIA hacked the missile battery, Ukrainian plot to kill Putin and thought it was his plane , etc. All saying it was Ukraine to get NATO involved. Just trying a bit of everything and seeing what might stick.

Reminds me of Dune. I'm down.

Top aids official says 6 colleagues headed to AIDS conference (https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/24501661/top-aids-official-says-six-colleagues-on-malaysia-plane-not-100/) instead of the previously reported 100.

 Another passenger worth reading about, sadly.  (http://m.smh.com.au/world/vibrant-life-of-young-space-engineer-cut-short-on-mh17-flight-20140720-zv0wy.html)

She comes off as a character in a sci-fi novel. I don't mean that in the pejorative sense at all. :cry:

Expert's opinion from photos, for what it's worth. Probably very little, but anyway...

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtFdZCdCIAAxSQ0.jpg)

His credentials seem to check out, and although I am *not* an expert on explosives or aircraft crashes, photos from several sources, especially of the port side cockpit shell, will look obvious to anyone who has ever fired shotguns or played around with explosives as being the result of a shrapnel cloud:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/photo-of-mh17-wreckage-proves-missile-attack-claims-report-20140722-zvjur.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/photo-of-mh17-wreckage-proves-missile-attack-claims-report-20140722-zvjur.html)

But no-one is denying that it was shot down by a BUK-fired SA11.  The latest version from the Russian keyboard brigade is that the Ukrainians planted a nonfunctional BUK for the separatists to capture, then redirected the plane for a false flag attack.

--Dave

It would however suggest the missile came from the direction the plane was heading towards, which was SE, the same area the separatist's were located and where that BUK that was photographed was. It's another fact that matches up with all the various open source evidence that points to the plane being shot down by separatist AA artillery.