f13.net

Ok I have been going in circles reading review after review on washers and dryers.  I bought a house late last summer, and am finally at the point where it is time to slap a washer and dryer in the garage... and for the life of me it seems like everything I like at has some really positive reviews and some really bad reviews.... any suggestions out there?

I was looking at the Whirlpool Duets

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Whirlpool-Duet-4-3-cu-ft-High-Efficiency-Front-Load-Washer-with-Steam-in-White-ENERGY-STAR-WFW96HEAW/203568794

but sounds like there are some issues with them for some people... Now I am looking at Kenmore but hearing iffy things about them.  As for budget I am looking at <1.5k per, so I can go kinda big not apeshit.

any feedback appreciated... as I am sick of the laundry mat and this is driving me nuts.

My mom had a set of Fisher-Paykel machines that were awesome. They are not usually sold at your home-improvement stores though.

Kenmore is hit or miss because they are re-branded Whirlpool/GE/Amana/Frigidaire/etc. and their biggest selling point used to be that you had the Sears service department locally who would come out and fix it if there were issues. Now that Sears is dying a slow death and closing stores/slashing operations that takes a lot of the lustre off of Kenmore.

If you have a local appliance store, you might want to check there and ask for their advice. Those guys are usually the ones you would call for repairs if you had issues from one bought at a super-store anyway.

Speed King/Queen High Efficiency machines are awesome and nearly indestructible (their primary market is commercial laundromats and in-house laundries for hotels), but they are also somewhat pricey and finding a source for just a single pair of machines can be difficult (they've gone back and forth on direct sales to the public, not sure where they're at right now).

Parts tend to stay available forever and most appliance service outfits can work on them (they have 'authorized' service arrangements, but they're so common that most experienced techs will be familiar with them and a lot of laundromat owners learn to service them on their own).  They cost, but it will probably be the last ones you'll ever need to buy.  You'll never use them up, rather that parts made of rubber or plastic may crack/split from sheer age in a decade or two.

--Dave

I keep away from the fancy electronics and HE style machines.  They are great for 12-18 months but then tend to start to have problems related to circuit boards or mildew on the seals if you aren't on top of letting them air out properly - I had a Neptune set that the ex-wife got in the divorce and I was glad she took their mess.  I bought a pair made by GE 5 years ago and they have been bullet proof (and I wash nasty clothes that are covered in oil and grease).  Simple and mostly mechanical.

Our Fisher-Paykel pair have been great (7 years now). The washer sounds like a jet turbine when it spins up, for better or worse.

Miele.

Seriously, they are the most reliable, rock solid, long lived appliances I've ever used. If you want a machine to last 20 years then get a Miele. We got a Miele washing machine about 8 years ago, we use it every single day more or less and it still looks brand new.

We also got a Miele vacuum last year after getting utterly fed up with how shite bagless vacuums are and it's awesome. Again, built like a tank.

This. A bad circuit board and you may as well just buy a new washer rather than repair it. And the house came with a nasty front-loader I was able to unload on craigslist to someone for enough to almost cover a nice point-to-point wired whirlpool. YMMV, because I'm ok with breaking a machine down to fix it.

More infos: I've had my washer and dryer for around 5 years. I bought them direct from Sears with a Sears card for free delivery + discounts. The washer is a Whirlpool but the dryer is a GE with a circuit board because I couldn't find a point-to-point model with the kind of lint trap I wanted. Both rated highly in Consumer Reports, which has yet to let me down for recommendations.

My x and I had a set of Samsung HE awhile ago. Never had an issue with them for the three years I got to use them. But I have no idea about these appliances so we might have gotten lucky, but I thought I'd throw it out there for the wolves.

I'd second that but it would push him way over his budget to get a Miele washer and dryer. They're not exactly cheap in their home country of Germany so I suppose they will be even more expensive if you need to buy them in the US

I like my Bosch set. Also shop around between your major appliance stores, one usually has a good deal going. We ended up with Loewes as price was 15% better plus free delivery.

Smeg.  I'm not telling you to buy one I just wanted to say Smeg.

My wife took laundry in the chore split, but she loves the Fisher-Paykel we received as wedding presents. It is about 5 Yeats old, and only needed one repair I was able to for $40 in materials after 10 minutes of internet searches. The newer ones are quieter, by the way, but far from silent. However, we do not notice it from in the house as the machine is in an insulated garage.

Ah, yeah I just looked up Miele appliance prices on some US sites. Ouch. They're a lot more expensive than here in the UK.

If you can get it at reasonable prices I'd highly suggest to go for a German brand.

Miele is top notch, ultra-reliable and they guarantee availability of spare parts for 15 years. They usually last that long or even longer which makes the initially high price worthwhile. Bosch and Siemens are also pretty good and reliable, if your local store has both take the cheaper of both brands, both Siemens and Bosch machines come out of the same factory and are just labelled differently.

I don't have that much experience with US brands so I can't offer any expertise there. As far as EU brands are concerned Elektrolux is still decent, won't last you as long as others though.

As far as feature set is concerned. The basic feature set offered by almost any brand is entirely sufficient for basically anything. If you have a choice between more reliable or more features go for more reliable. Out of the 10, 15 or 20 washer or dryer programs the high end models offer you'll probably only ever use three anyway. 30°C, 40°C and 60°C. Everything else is nice to have but you'll probably end up not using it ever. The same with dryers. Almost everything that can be tumble dried uses one of two programs low temp or high temp.

Anything that doesn't fit these criteria shouldn't be put in the washer or dryer anyway so you'll just end up buying for features you never use.

We have a miele vacuum and can't recommend it enough. I had no idea they made washer/dryers or we would have gone with those. We have an HE/front pair from Frigidaire and we're quite happy with them. I think they're four or so years old though, so big deal.

Miele is making all kinds of appliances for home and commercial use.

washing and drying
dishwashers
stoves and ovens
refrigerators
etc.

I bought a set of Maytags about six months ago.  The Bravos models (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Maytag-Bravos-X-3-8-cu-ft-High-Efficiency-Top-Load-Washer-in-White-ENERGY-STAR-MVWX500BW/204307114?N=bv1wZ5yc1vZz2Z1xr5)

Pretty simple but work well so far.  I wanted to stay away from fancy electronics because being this close to the river and ocean water can do a number on electronics.  The washer is top-loading, which gives it a ton of space, and none of he problems of side-loaders.

I just did this song and dance two months ago. We sold the house and the buyer wanted our 12 year old washer & dryer, which I was more than happy to give up.

We bought one of the top end LG models because they were on sale at Home Depot during the weeks we were looking.  Consumer reports rated them the top brand for the price we wanted, and it has the advantage of being top-load vs. front load.  The front loads are nice and all but I've seen many reported problems about mustiness/ mold/ mildew at the seals.  Top loads avoid that.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/LG-Electronics-4-3-cu-ft-High-Efficiency-Front-Control-Top-Load-Washer-in-White-ENERGY-STAR-WT1101CW/203578178
http://www.homedepot.com/p/LG-Electronics-7-3-cu-ft-Capacity-Electric-Front-Control-Dryer-in-White-DLE1101W/203578180

I'd considered buying one of the steam dryers, but then read that the steam system is only best used for anti-wrinkles and doesn't work that great.  The 'odor removal' doesn't appear to do much.

So far we've loved these models.  They're great and I don't feel we overpaid for them at all.  The HE stuff has saved us a lot in electricity vs. the old models from what I can see so far.  The only disadvantage to them is the longer wash cycle needed because of the lesser amount of water used.

I'll agree with everyone here about avoiding the super fancy electronic ones. My washer's circuit board went all screwy and the machine is basically a giant pain in the ass now that takes all kinds of fiddling to get through a cycle. It's eight'ish years old now and started going screwy last year, meh. Getting the board fixed/replaced, might as well buy a new machine for the cost.


On the other end of the spectrum we have a really really old washing machine that went from my parents to my sister that still works without a hitch. I mean old, like older then me old. Like you can see the exact same model on that 70's show old.  :why_so_serious:

My wife bought a front loader LG when our 5 year old Maytag died (I was away on business).  I know everyone complains about the mildew, but is it really that hard to remember to leave it open after running the last load?

We've had it 9 months (thru the mildew season in August), with no problems.  Is this thing waiting to explode in a spore-infested mess, or if I just keep leaving the door open, am I fine?

wow, some great feedback here, thanks all. 

Hmm yeah the Miele : W3033 24 Front Load Washer is what my parents have, and I was hoping to spend less than 3k for washer and drier.   

again thanks for the responses

Problem is that even the 'low tech' machines these days have circuit boards.  The 12 year old washer I got rid of had a board & switch problem that meant it wouldn't detect when the lid was closed and therefore wouldn't start the spin cycle.

Cost me $60 and 3 hours time to fix it myself (not including the wait for shipment.)  It would have been a $200 or better service call, meaning it would have cost almost as much to replace the whole appliance if I weren't handy.

But a circuit board that controls a sensor board is a lot cheaper than a full on computing board. If you see a display pane, you'll be shelling out $$ for any repair. I saw one model with a boot up display, I don't want to wait for my washer's OS to load!  I'm a luddite for most things.

We bought the low end Samsung HE a few years ago and they are great.  Before that I had a frigidaire HE washer that was made 5 years before the whole frontload thing hit mainstream it was awesome until the wife killed it by attempting laundry during a week long freeze.  I seem to hear many bad stories about LG HE washers and dryers.

My buddy's LG has some lint trap strainer thing on the washer, if you have that definitely empty and rinse it out once in awhile.  My mom's LG issues were mostly with the dryer, she had an early model that didn't have a manual dry setting and it kept refusing to dry her clothes all the way.

Two things:

1.  Don't get a front/side loader.  Inevitably you will find one last sock and want to open the washer and throw it in only to be foiled when you realize you can't do that with your front loader.  Get a top loader.

2.  Unless aesthetics are a concern (valid concern but probably not for you since you mentioned putting them in the garage) why not just get a washer and dryer used?  I picked up a used washer and dryer for $275.  So far they have been going strong without any problems for 1 year and 6 months.  Do you like to set your washer to start on an 18 hour delay so you can wash your clothes in the middle of the night when electricity is cheapest?  No? Didn't even know that was a thing? Then you're probably good with a basic used model.

Front load washers are far more energy and water efficient. They're also easier on your clothes.

I've got a Kenmore front loading washer and dryer. They're awesome. No issues at all, had them for five or six years now. Definitely more energy efficient than our old top loaders, and loads quieter as well. I'd buy them again if I needed to.

You need death metal washer (http://www.thatvideosite.com/v/11576/death-metal-drumming-washing-machine)

The new ones are just as gentle.  They don't have a post in the middle and the sensor only fills it up with enough water to cover the clothes.

Gentle == less clean

oh that had me chuckling.

water rates are gonna go up a lot where I am at over the next few years.  So I am interested in a HE front loader, but on the other hand, I am single dude, not like I have triplets with cloth diapers to wash or anything.

I have heard people say that the gaskets of front load washers can get torn and are expensive to replace? Anyone have any experience with that?

I am definitely buying into peoples recommendations here that getting a supercomputer washer/dryer is in the long run an expensive proposition if/when things go wrong

It's usually the first thing to go in a front-loader, but they're both cheap and easy to replace. Also, it happens rarely. Our last washer was over 10 years old and had had it's door seal replaced once.

In the UK the situation with top vs front loaders is reversed compared to the US - pretty much everyone uses front loaders. I suspect it's because we pay more for water & electricity than you and they are a lot more economical.

In Europe you generally won't find top loader washers or dryers in big box stores. They are relegated to certain special applications and usually an appliances company has maybe one or two top loaders in a portfolio of thirty or more machines. In general all you get and people use are front loaders (less space in general so the ability to stack washer and dryer on top of each other is more important). In my experience they are totally reliable and I have never heard of caskets being an issue. My machine is now 12 years old and is working like it is new. Even if the caskets get worn out they are usually easily replacable.

When washers leak, at least in my experience it's usually not because of worn caskets but because of scale or calcium carbonate deposits from hard water that messed up the innards of the machine. If you know the pH-Value of your water and use descaler agents you should be fine.

There's an easy solution for the mildew problem by the way. Every few weeks or months have the machine run a wash cycle on the highest temperature setting (95°C in the EU). Let the washer run empty but add detergent. If you want you can also use one of the special 'washer cleaning agents' but they are not really necessary. Since most of our laundry is only ever cleaned at 30°C or 40°C the temperatures are simply not high enough to kill off all of the stuff, doesn't matter if you use a top loader or front loader. A run on the highest setting will, though


Not only that it's also really unnecessary. You'll generally only ever use two or maybe three settings anyway. Most of your stuff will be washed at 30°C or 40°C normal wash cycle, some stuff will be washed at 60°C normal cycle. Most of the other programs and settings are usually only for stuff you shouldn't really wash in a washer anyway but are there for sake of convenience, like silk or wool wash programs or settings for certain type of clothes like shirts, jeans, 'delicate' clothes etc.

Most of those programs are either unnecessary because you really should have taken those clothes to a dry cleaner or handwashed them anyway or because you can set those programs up manually by selecting temperature, spin cycle settings etc. (like those 'delicate' clothes or shirt settings) so you'll end up with a machine that is more expensive to buy and to repair, more likely to break and you pay for stuff you really almost never use anyway.

What might be a consideration however (depending on how often you have to wash) is the time a machine takes for its wash cycles. A cheaper machine might take longer for the same wash cyle and same result as a more expensive one and a machine with a 'quick wash' type setting might be a plus depending on your situation.

My water bill is like $30 a month.  How long is it going to take to recoup the expense of a $1,000 HE model versus a used washer and dryer for less than $300?

Depends, but at that rate probably not over the lifetime of the products.

You can calculate it yourself pretty easily if you know the energy consumption and water consuption values for both the old and new models and the number of times per week (or day) you use those devices. You'd also have to take into account that the used ones probably don't last as long before they break for good.

The decrease in water usage reflects electricity cost reduction more than water cost reduction. You heat less water for warm/hot cycles, the pumps run less, etc. That adds up a lot faster than water usage.

Also, Jeff, you don't need front loading for stacking. They have sold stacking top-load washers in the states for decades. It is hard to find the typical american MEGAJUMBOCAPACITY ones in that fashion though.

OK, now I'm curious. How do you stack two appliances on top of each other and still retain the ability to load up both when both are top loaders?. Do you have an example?

Something like this -http://imgur.com/0BzbRfw

I should add I'm biased with cheap, plentiful water (I think I pay less than duse but it's rolled into my mortgage escrow) and wash in cold water. Benefits of living in a sparsely populated temperate forest, though NYC is trying to steal our resources. That should be a cassus belli.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WGDvIHVO3RU/SxmgjuLAYSI/AAAAAAAAAbE/KVvFg7xuj5c/s320/stacked+washer+dryer.jpeg)

Typically the drier is a front loader in the US, and in the stacking ones it's on top (yes, this means you have to lift the wet clothes up to the drier).  There's a gap of about 1.5 feet and the washer lid only opens to about 45 degrees.  It's not a great design (among other things, they're sold as one unit and have to be replaced and moved together).

--Dave

It's a common setup for apartments, though (I had one for a while). That unit is essentially designed to fit in an apartment-sized coat closet.

Interesting, didn't think of that.

Less water also means less water to heat if you use anything other than "cold" and the spin is more aggressive, which means less energy to dry the clothes.

Do you know that there are front loader washer/dryer combinations? It's basically a front loader washer that can also function as a dryer. Like this machine for example: http://www.lg.com/us/washer-dryer-combos/lg-WM3455HW-washer-dryer-combo

I had one that the lid on the washer was a bifold and slid backward so there was more room to get into the washer. Worked pretty good.

My sister had the same setup in her college apartment.  The lid's just there to keep things from falling in and water from spraying out so it makes sense.

next question,

gas vs electric dryers... my garage is set up for electric dryer,  I "want" gas because I "believe" it is cheaper in the long run..

I am on a raised foundation, and the quotes to plumb in a gas line to where it would be needed in garage is about $750.  I am gonna guesstimate that for a single guy who will be using a clothesline much of the time (in sacramento valley, ca) that I won't be making back that $750 by using gas any time soon?

In short, any really convincing reasons to go with gas given that I need to shell out $750 right off the bat ?

I seriously doubt you will save the cost of running the gas line over the entire life of the dryer.

If you have a gas line there, then it comes down to personal preference, honestly.

Yeah I went with gas because my old ancient house didn't have anything but that option.  Personally I feel gas is a more efficient heating system and less parts to burn out or go wrong with, but electric is what everyone uses these days.  My current house was fortunate enough to have the hot water heater run on gas and be all of 4 feet away from where the dryer is so adding a gas line was easy.

You won't save on the cost for shelling out $750 though unless electricity gets REALLY expensive up there or you live there (and have the same dryer) for 10-15 years or more.

 :mob: :mob: :tantrum:

Why would you heat hot water. You wouldn't!  :mob:

Yeah yeah yeah, I was tired when I wrote that and figured someone would call me out on it.  Older water heaters heated hot water because of how inefficient they were ;-)

f13: Come for the snark, stay for the pedantry  :drillf:

I have two big pet peeves from my time in the construction industry.  That's one, the other is people who pronounce Masonry (May-sun-ree) as Masun-airy.

Joisteses.

This is what I ended up going with,  though I got the slightly larger washer version.  Thanks for the all the great responses/feedback

Cheers