f13.net

I need a chair.

What else should I look at before I stop wasting my time and accept that I have to blow far too much cash on an Aeron?

I know we've done this thread before but it has been a few years.

Just get it.  You'll be happier.

I have one of these at work: http://backapp.eu/en/

It's great.

I use one of my mom's very old black walnut Hitchcock chairs with a comfy pillow on it.  I have three more but my sister uses one, too.  You could have one, but it'll cost you.  

Comfy pillow not included.

I've got a shitty $50 chair from 2002. The old ones were worse. I can't even imagine having a nice chair.

I bought one of these a couple of years ago and I'm fairly happy with it, I didn't want to spend a fortune on it at the time.

Boring chair (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eliza-Tinsley-PU-Executive-BK/dp/B002VEFM3I)

It's a nice height for the Gallant range (http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/categories/departments/workspaces/18960/) from Ikea which is the best computer desk you can get imho

Scrounging for businesses closing or renovating is a great way to find good desk chairs btw, I'm sitting on a fairly expensive Kinnarps that was heading to a landfill, nothing wrong with it except that it had been used. There's also places that refurbish chairs and sell them for cheap.

We have Mirras at the office.  A few hundred cheaper than Aerons and just as comfy, IMO.  I also know they're pretty damn durable as the 6'-4" 320# guy who sits near me only breaks the back on one every year or so. The seat holds up fine.

http://www.hermanmiller.com/content/hermanmiller/english/products/categories/seating/performance-work-chairs/mirra-chairs.html

If you have any kind of back problems at all then the best option is one of these (http://www.thera-band.co.uk/products/balance-coordination/exercise-balls.html).

Not a chair I know, but I've been told by several physiotherapists that it's the best thing for preventing back/disc troubles. You basically cannot slouch and have to keep your legs and back muscles active all the time. It's kind of an extreme option though and takes some getting used to.

A chair for a desk? How quaintly old-fashioned.

Obviously you want a treadmill desk (http://store.steelcase.com/brochures/treadmill-desks-walkstation/).

They are very reasonably priced at only $3,999 for the base model.

Go to a furniture store and sit in all the chairs. Pick one. Chair comfort varies greatly from person to person and the only way you're really going to be able to tell what is right for you is actually trying them.

I've been sitting in an Aeron since 2001 at work and in that time I've broken probably 12 of the lumbar support things, and I am not a big fat guy. They're comfortable chairs otherwise but that one piece breaks constantly and without it they're a little lacking.

Yet another reason I'd recommend the Mirras over the Aeron.  It doesn't go for the same lightness in its design and has a sturdier "T" brace with moving lumbar support to Aeron's "This one piece here in your back" approach.

But Ingmar has the right of it. Go to a proper office furniture store and sit in a bunch until you're comfortable. Not Office Depot and not any of the big-box residential furniture places who stock the shittiest of shit chairs.   My mom stills has my dad's wheeled office chair from the 80's and a Steelcase desk chair from the 70s because we bought office furniture instead of residential.

I've got one of the cheaper Herman Millers and it does just fine.

This one (http://www.amazon.com/LifeSpan-TR1200-DT-Treadmill-Desk-Model/dp/B006M2PJV0) is a lot cheaper.

There's an optional "Y" brace (http://www.amazon.com/Aeron-PostureFit-Support-Herman-Miller/dp/B000LT6BFS/ref=pd_sim_hg_3) for the Aeron. Still doesn't offer great back support, though. It's one of the weak points of the design. I don't have regular back issues, though, so the Aeron works the best for me.

If you are willing to spend the bucks here are some of the chairs that are semi-comparable to the Aeron:

HumanScale Freedom and Liberty (http://shop.humanscale.com/products/category_detail.cfm?category=seating) - I love the headrest and general comfort of the Freedom. It's really really comfy if you like to sit in a reclined position. Unfortunately neither the Freedom nor the Liberty can lock their positions which makes them unusable for my upright but slouched sitting posture.

Steelcase Leap and Think (http://www.steelcase.com/en/products/category/seating/task/pages/grid2.aspx) - Leap is built like a tank and highly adjustable but not as comfortable for me as the Aeron. The Think seemed like a good cheaper alternative to the Aeron but it has/had plastic parts (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=12121.0) in some of the key areas which ruled it out for me (since I'm a fatass). The Think is a pretty trendy design, though. If you watch TV shows you see it show up a lot as an alternative to the Aeron. Steelcase has some newer designs out now that I haven't tried out myself that might be worth considering.

Herman Miller Embody (http://www.hermanmiller.com/content/hermanmiller/english/products/categories/seating/performance-work-chairs/embody-chairs.html) - This is the chair to get if the Aeron isn't "extreme" enough for you. I was seriously considering it since the Aeron has a number of flaws but sitting in one wasn't as comfortable for my butt compared to the Aeron so I stuck with the Aeron.

There are other Herman Miller chairs (http://www.hermanmiller.com/content/hermanmiller/english/products/categories/seating/performance-work-chairs.html) that are cheaper than the Aeron like the Mirra mentioned above and also the the Celle and SAYL. I sat in the Mirra and didn't like the seat bottom compared to the Aeron. The Celle back felt too weird for me. Haven't tried the SAYL yet.

Basically the Aeron Pellicle material is still the best for me. No "hot spots" on my ass and the weight is more evenly distributed. I can literally sit on that chair for 16+ hours and not feel tired. There are lots of other chairs now that have a similar type of "suspension" material and design but none of them are even close to the Aeron in performance.

Hm, I'll have to ask if our facilities people will get me one of those.

That Mirra chair is really nice.  I like it a lot.  If I get all the options, like lumbar support and adjustable everythingamabob, it'll only cost me $969.  I could  buy a whole computer for that.  Or pay another $1k towards my cat's $6k operation.  Or a plane ticket to someplace where no one can find me.  See?  These are all the thingies I think about before I buy anything like an office chair.  That's why I sit on my mom's old Hitchcock chair.  I wish I could make my mind stfu sometimes.  But, yeah, that Mirra chair is bausome.

For the price of that chair, you could also get an MRI of your back.   :oh_i_see:

Steelcase makes awesome furniture, IMO. 

Find a friendly interior designer/ architect and see if you can get an extra chair tacked on to their next office job (or if they can put you in touch with a supplier).  As with anything, there's big discounts for buying in bulk and only suckers pay retail.   :grin:

Your cat needs a $6,000 operation?   :ye_gods:

I hope that's translated into real money and not really pounds, because if so it would be  :ye_gods: :ye_gods:.

We had to pay $6,800 for two lens dislocations in one of our dachshunds, but not all at once.   :oh_i_see:

Yes, he had to have surgery to make his penis a pegina.  He had crystals forming in his pee pee hose and so he needed an emergency vet.  It probably would have been much less if we had had time to wait and figure things out. There was no other vet in this area capable of doing this particular surgery.  Oh well.  I would do it again.  MY Lister is my  :heart:.  I had to beg, borrow and steal to get the money to pay half up front and half after.  They wouldn't have given him back if I didn't pay.  :(  I have 4K to go, I think.  It was the third most traumatic event in my life! 

:ye_gods:

  But he's here, he's healthy again and he's awesome.

Personally, for that cost just get a real treadmill with the bells and whistles for 2/3 of that, put computer on a flat surface near and rig a tray for your keyboard.

I kinda liked mine but honestly I'd rather jog 45 minutes while watching whatever I can scrounge on Netflix than walk slow enough to be able to use the computer for much longer.

Now, if I could get my company to get me one for work, I'd be pushing for Baldrake's :-)

Did you actually use one, Darniaq? I've been really tempted for a while, but am not sure it wouldn't be gathering dust within a month or two. Most testimonials I've read online are glowing, but mainly from people who just got them. And yeah, I'd only get one if work was paying, duh.  :uhrr:

Yes you can put together a setup like that but there are definite advantages in going with a specialized treadmill desk product.

The first problem is that most treadmills have large control panels up front. If you stick an elevated desk behind the panel then you have to reach across the panel to use a mouse and keyboard. If you are tall enough (or the panel low enough) that you can stick a desk over the panel then you have the problem that the desk blocks the controls. You can also stick the desk in front of the panel (like this product (http://www.amazon.com/TrekDesk-Treadmill-Desks-TD-01-Desk/dp/B002IYRBI0/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1366948721&sr=1-1&keywords=treadmill+desk)*) but then you have to reach across the desk to reach the controls. This is why there are specialized treadmills now (like this product (http://www.lifespanfitness.com/workplacesolutions-treadmill-desk-and-bike-desk/standing-desk-treadmills/tr5000-dt3-standing-desk-treadmill.html)) that have a separate control panel that you can mount on an existing standing desk.

The next problem is that the cheaper home treadmills do not have motors that are designed to be run for hours at a time. You would have to get a commerical/fitness center grade treadmill if you wanted to get something durable enough to let you walk on it for more than an hour or two on a regular basis. Another motor issue is that treadmills are typically geared to operate at running speeds not walking speeds and this can cause extra stress on the motor if you are using it at walking speeds for long periods of time, possibly leading to earlier motor failure.

* BTW, I would not recommend that product, there's not enough cross bracing on that thing and it will wobble (http://www.amazon.com/TrekDesk-Treadmill-Desks-TD-01-Desk/product-reviews/B002IYRBI0/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_two?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addTwoStar&showViewpoints=0).

I have the LifeSpan TR1200-DT5 (http://www.lifespanfitness.com/workplacesolutions-treadmill-desk-and-bike-desk/treadmill-desks-treadmill-and-desk/tr1200-dt5-treadmill-desk.html). Amazon had it on sale during Christmas for $1000 which was a good price point for me. I have very bad knees so I don't use it as much as I would like (on good days 90 minutes is about my limit for walking on it) but it's working very well for me and I like it a lot except for the fact that the Bluetooth interface and software is absolutely horrid. It's actually easier for me to keep track of my results in a text document than to try and use that thing.

It's also not height adjustable after you set it, unless you unload the top, so it doesn't work like a standing desk that goes up and down so you can sit at it with a regular chair. A tall stool might work but I have a separate desk (with my Aeron chair :awesome_for_real:) I move to when I'm not standing at it.

My desk chair came from my neighbor's front yard.

I tried the exercise ball for a desk chair, which I like, but they get dirty and I can't sit on one for hours on end - I need a back to relax on when I'm not typing.

I'm pretty sure our current office chairs were found in a dumpster in 2001.

Ha! When they replaced ours last year after various injuries, we were told the previous ones had been bought to match the office decor, not with ergonomics in mind. They're still in our meeting rooms and people still sit on them and say WTF.

I'm sitting on one right now and I can attest that you can slouch on it.

Also, you unconsciously put a lot of stress on your wrists/elbows as they provide stability.

The treadmill desks I can sort of understand but I sometimes wonder when looking at the $750+ sit/stand workstations, why people just don't get a good drafting chair and opt for a taller fixed height workstation.  This would actually work really well with most standard office cubes as there is usually (depending on if the file cabinets are attached to the work surface) nothing preventing someone from raising their work surface to any height they wish.

They're the exercise equivalent of a poopsock.

Maybe if being at your desk 8+ hours a day was optional and the treadmill desk was intended to replace actual exercise (hint: it isn't, it is only supposed to replace sitting on your ass).

Interesting. Thanks. I'm definitely thinking about it.

I've read testimonials that people find it helps concentration, reducing the ADD impulses to check mail etc.

They are deluding themselves :awesome_for_real:

If anything it makes you concentrate less cause you are spending some additional conscious brain cycles on the walking/standing part and you tend to fidget more on your upper body.

I did for about three months. Not for work mind you (my office at the time was a cute mistranslation of "closet", but for home. I ended up at about two hours standing, one sitting, at the heigth of my WoW days :-)

Everything Trippy said above is what I experienced. My setup was very Rube Goldberg: effective, but nothing I'm going to photograph. I have a professional grade treadmill that had gathered dust for two years prior and then four years after (finally got it up to snuff about six months ago). It can handle hours on end fine, but there were lots of clamps other carpentry involved for the computer bits. It was far too high for my wrists, and monitor too far away (I eventually went with a TV) and forget being able to use a mic for VoIP. The only reason I stopped using it though is because we moved. And by the time I got to thinking of setting it up again, we moved again.

To do all of this right you'd definitely want to go with his suggestions: purpose built machines. The real beauty is that all of it is controlled via the computer you'll be using, rather than this big honky 70s era "computer" controlling the treadmill while to use the real one is a pain in the ass.

But, before trying to do it right, it's cheaper to cobble together stuff if you already have it  :grin:

For me personally, I'd rather have it at the office anyway. I have a standing desk now, but my legs aren't doing anything but keeping me vertical. Freakin' slackers. I wouldn't use one for 8 hours straight, but then, 2/3 of my day is in meetings anyway so I don't need that kind of stamina. Then at night I'll catch up on the first or second half of whatever movie I'm watching on Netflix while jogging.

Now I just need to get the company to fund it.

You should get a pogo stick, Darniaq.  You'll be doing something with your legs, improving your coordination, and getting your work done.  And cheap!

I have an Aeron at work and the only thing I'm not 100% about is that if your foot support isn't just right, the front lip of the seat is too firm and there is no adjustment for depth. I don't really notice it in recline which would be 98% of home use. I'm a big fan of the aeron mesh.

Plan to go try an Embody as well as the cost seems to have dropped to the same as the Aeron, and will look out for the other chairs mentioned.

Thanks! I thought I was the only one who had that issue with the front lip of the Aeron! I do like the mesh and considered one for home. But that would mess up the feng shue of our garage sale crap award winning living room furniture.


Lol, might negatively impact hand-to-keyboard accuracy, but maybe if I just get one of those fancy Nostromo thingies?

I see a Pogo stick, virtual keyboard and Occulus Rift kind of setup...

Man that's all we need until the Holodeck singularity!

In case anyone cares. The outcome of this was I tried a load of chairs, and there were a whole bunch about as good as an aeron at about the same MRSP, but nothing else had limitless refurbished or "exdemo" stock for a third of the price on eBay, and cheap replacement parts available everywhere in case my chair turns out to be a lemon.

So since my office Aeron has held my ass off the ground for 7 years and shows absolutely no sign of wear and tear I figured a used one will do me fine.

I'm saving up for one of these  :awesome_for_real:

(http://i.imgur.com/0Zn1OjL.jpg) (http://imgur.com/0Zn1OjL)

I'm fond of the Steelcase Think chair.
http://store.steelcase.com/products/think-in-color-3d-knit-back/

I used to use an Aeron at work, but I actually find this a bit more comfy and now use one of these both at work and at home.

They're pretty spendy though, but they do come in assorted colors (the one I bought for home is the hideous "wasabi" green -- I love it).

We have them in one of our other offices, I can never get used to the seat backs for whatever reason.

Did they switch from plastic to metal on the weight bearing parts yet? The design looks updated from the version I got but I can't tell from the pictures above if the parts are still plastic.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=12121.0

They make both a metal and a plastic model that look very similar. The metal ones are almost as nice as an Aeron (to me), the plastic ones not so much.

(Our organization bought the plastic ones for the new people in IT, the Utility Command Center guys all got the metal ones which are much nicer)

Ah interesting. Maybe I'll give the metal version a try if I move or need another chair at my current place.

Related, has anyone used an adjustable standing desk that's decent but say $800 or less (the Steelcase ones are very nice, but $1300-1400 plus $200 delivery and install is awfully steep).

Probably just a tall desk and a tall chair would be cheaper...

We use these hand crank bases (http://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Height-Desk-Table-Workstation/dp/B005MR5YA2/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1375750881&sr=1-1) at work cause we're too cheap to get motorized or pneumatic ones. You can also get them with tops if you don't have one already (like a cheap Ikea top).

Or you could get a treadmill desk.

I use a chair that has a seat and back.

That doesn't seem too bad -- how well does the crank mechanism work and how stable are they (do they wobble much, etc)?

Crank is smooth to operate but it takes a lot of turns to move up and down. Base is stable even without an extra crossbeam.

Time-wise how long are we talking going from sitting to standing?  Unless it takes an impressively long time, saving ~$700 compared to a pneumatic desk seems like a good deal to me.  Shipping also looks to be much faster and cheaper than the Steelcase stuff.

It's a little less than a half inch per turn if I remember correctly so if you needed to raise it, say, 14 inches that would be about 30 turns. I don't use one myself cause kness don't allow me to stand that long but I can play with one on Wednesday when I'm back in the office if you want me to get a more accurate measurement. One disadvantage of that base is that there a no fixed "stops" you can set so you have to somehow mark / remember what the normal up and down heights are. Of course that could also be considered an advantage if you like to adjust the height as you change standing (or even sitting) positions.

Can you guys recommend a chair that I don't have to take out a second mortgage to buy?  Something in the < $500 range?

Must have: adjustable height and good lumbar support.

That'd be awesome.  I'm pretty sold on this as a solid, but less expensive option.  Also, if you guys used the surfaces they sell with the desks, I'm interested in what the quality is like (how good the laminate/etc is).  I'm leaning toward just ordering the full desk kit (lazy), but if the worksurface is horrible I'll investigate alternatives.

As for sub-$500 chairs, I dunno.  $200ish tends to be the point where you get something that won't almost immediately fall apart, but the heavy duty stuff seems to start at $700-800, which is kind of obnoxious.  I'm not sure if there are brands with staying power in the mid-range prices (such that they've been shipping the same model/family of chair long enough for people to discover if they really are good for the long haul).

It is about a half inch per turn. It doesn't look like we have any of the ModTable tops on our bases here. Ours look to be all Ikea or Ikea-like tops which are thicker than what's shown in the images on Amazon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HERMAN-MILLER-AERON-SIZE-B-ADJUSTIBLE-GRAPHITE-BASE-FRAME-LUMBAR-SUPPORT-/261260433145

It always comes back to the Aeron! (and honeycrisps)

Awesome chair.  I would totally buy it if I didn't have to drive to PA to get it.

I'll look for others like it.  Thanks!

The MultiTable desk is great.  It showed up this afternoon, took an hour or so to put together.  The packaging was really well done (looks like it'd be hard to damage in shipment) but pretty fast to open up and get all the bits out to assemble.

I should have just ordered this surface from Ikea instead of getting the laminate surface from them, though: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90014922/

It's a better size too (their medium is not as wide as I'd like, but the large top also makes it deeper which I don't need for a computer desk).  Guess I'm upgrading!

1. http://heightadjustableworktable.com/index.php/manual-modtable-base.html
2. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90014922/
3. some assembly
4. awesome new adjustable height work surface.

(http://frotz.net/misc/newdesk.jpg)

Trippy -- thanks for the suggestion, this thing is great!

Sure thing.