f13.net

It is time.  We are starting to seriously look at places to stay for a London visit in 2013.

Overview: We want to be Jane Goodall but for English instead of zebras or whatever she lived with.  We want to see the neighborhood from the perspective of someone that lives there.  This means grocery shopping, cooking and such.

Objective of thread: Gather intelligence from people familiar with London.

First candidate is strong.  It is a townhome in Westminster, neighborhood seems to be called Maida Vale.  Apparently it is within walking distance to anything and I'm not likely to get stabbed or accosted by Dickensian orphans.  Opinions?

Don't you need the orphans for a real-to-life experience?

They call chips crisps and elevators lifts.  Crazy.

Both times I've vacationed in London we stayed in Kensington, once in a townhouse and one in a random hotel from hotwire.com.  It seemed perfectly nice, if perhaps a bit staid. There are tube stations all over the damn place in London, you'll probably be super close to one (especially from an Amurican perspective) no matter where you stay.  You get yourself an Oyster card day one and pop on and off the tube and/or buses as you please, it's like some kind of magical transportation miracle.

Also the first floor is the second floor...

Have you noticed those translation guides always tell you a diaper is a nappy, but never what a napkin is called in Britain?  They want us to remain ignorant so they can laugh at us!

:awesome_for_real:

I'm not worried about the language, thanks to lots of Doctor Who, Are You Being Served?, and probably some other horseshit I have forgotten.  Jason Statham movies.  Yes, those.

More later.

You will have more of a multicultural experience, alongside your English experience, anywhere you go in London nowadays, although you have picked a relatively affluent area. Less Dickensian orphan, more London Central Mosque.

Olde England has moved to the green belt and beyond.

Hey, I'm still figuring things out the other way. I got a giggle the first time I asked for serviettes in a diner.

If it helps I get the same when I go to the US. I ask for tea and they bring me this vile shit called Liptons instead.

How dare they bring you tea from a company headquartered in the UK!  :-P

There is some good tea, however.  You just have to look for it. 

How long are you staying? Planning on spending it all in London or travelling too?

Not that it matters - this is the only website you need: http://www.beerintheevening.com/ (http://www.beerintheevening.com/) Remember: real men drink real ale. :drill:

You have that the wrong way around.

Maida Vale is a nice district, although I'd note to you that the Borough of Westminster is huge, while the area most people think of as Westminster (the area around Parliament) is pretty small. I have friends who live in Maida Vale and looked at living there myself, it's pretty residential, but that sounds like what you want. It's not got the best connections, and the only things you're really in walking distance from is Regent's Park, everything else is going to require a bus or tube ride.

If you have any particular interests in food I can point you at any number of good places to eat that tourists would never find by themselves.

There's so much else I could say about London; I have lived here going on 10 years and love it.

OK, got some good stuff pretty quickly.  I figured the cockney-meme had more legs than that, but I'm not complaining.


Expected from a massive international city, so that's fine.


Is there more detail behind this?


You, sir, were pre-selected for tea-snob detail.  I'm being complimentary.  So, make a list.  Spending time in London means I had better get some of that tea.


About a week.  We aren't planning on going outside the city due to the belief that there is more than enough to occupy us without leaving.


Great link, that's what we are looking for: "Real London Experience"


The Maida Vale house was the first good find on vrbo.com that my wife sent me.  We aren't married to it.  The vrbo description says it is a ten-minute walk from Little Venice and some other possibly-notable stuff.  As for bus/tube ride, you obviously have never been to Atlanta.  Everything is thirty minutes away by car.  A ten-minute tube ride seems downright charming.


My main interest is in eating good english food.  I've been told it exists.  What we can do is wait until we have decided on a place to stay, then we can get into dining details.  Also grocery shopping since I'll have a nine-year-old and we won't be out every night.


(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28883202.jpg)

Mostly that my base reaction is "meh, London". I was born in Edinburgh, Scotland (https://www.google.com/search?q=edinburgh+scotland&tbm=isch), which isn't far away and possesses far more awesome. Then there's my favourite place, Wester Ross (http://www.google.com/search?q=wester+ross&tbm=isch).

I've visited London quite often as I have family near Maidenhead, specifically Taplow (https://www.google.com/search?q=taplow+england&tbm=isch). It starts to get very oldschool English out there, country pubs, green fields and deer. London officially has a "green belt" around the extremities of the greater city, which are required to remain that way.

London benefited hugely from the Olympics though. Prior to that its cultural melting pot was very tense (see the riots, etc) and still could get that way. I enjoyed staying in Brixton, which is full of black West Indian culture and food. I passed through western parts of London on a bus and it was literally mosque after mosque for a long way. I'm mentioning this a lot because your post sounded like you wanted an older English experience, and London feels like it has a far larger influx of migrants than any other city I've been to - and I'm from Sydney, which is incredibly multicultural.

There is an awesome tattoo place named "Eclipse" in Camden if you're looking for more permanent postcards.  There's an app (http://banksylondontourapp.co.uk/) if you like urban art and want to see the Banksy stuff.  You can also look them up online.  It's just you guys are so into your phones and all.  I love Banksy stuff.  It'll be worth it.  You can also do lots of walking tours of really seedy areas where serial killers roamed.  London has lots of serial killers although maybe not as many as Portland, which seems to have thousands.

(http://www.chilternsaonb.org/uploads/images/explore_and_enjoy/places_to_stay/Aldbury_Village.jpg)

Alright:
1. There's a designated green belt around London.
2.  It's very multicultural.
3.  I need to think about phone service.

I'm very OK with the multicultural bit, as long as there isn't some sort of Little America neighborhood that I end up in.  Because that would be dumb.  However since we do have mosques and black people in Atlanta, I'll make note of that.  I would like to get the older English experience, but I'm not restricting myself such that I'll be disappointed if I see a lot of Germans, or any other ethnic group that I don't see every day.  Still, it would be great to spend time mingling with some stiff-backed muttering English types.

Since it was mentioned, I preferred Glasgow to Edinburgh, if that says anything about me.

What kind of phone/provider do you have in the states? If you have an unlocked GSM phone you can get a prepaid sim for like 30 bucks.

Yes.  It really does.

 :awesome_for_real:

Edinburgh has a lot of hills.  That makes Glasgow better.  Well, except that one GIANT hill in Glasgow.  That one did me in.  I always liked Glasgow, too.  I never go to Edinburgh because I'm already in England.

Exactly!

I'm using a Droid RAZR on Verizon.  Will research later, once I seal up all these sudo-to-root holes we just found.

I had a little think about stuff to do in London with a 9yo (caveat, I'm in my late 20s and have no kids).

Hackney City Farm (http://hackneycityfarm.co.uk/) is a fun place to visit, and the associated kitchen does a good brunch/lunch. The place is very kid friendly, and while it's not very big, it's in a part of London that's definitively not touristy. It's also pretty close (in London terms) to The Museum of Childhood (http://www.museumofchildhood.org.uk/whats-on/) which I have heard good things about, although I can't fairly comment since I have never been. You're also close there to Victoria Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Park,_London), which is the main park in the East End of London, they have some deer there, and during the summer there are a mix of festivals and other events that might be of interest, but you'd need to check closer to the time.

If you wanted to see real deer (and you want to have your own Fenton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU) moment) you're better off heading down to Richmond Park (http://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/richmond-park). Richmond is one of the leafier, more affulent suburbs of London, and it's easily accessible. The park is pretty nice although it doesn't have formal gardens in the same way that places like Hyde Park or Regent's Park do. You can hire bicycles there and they have some easy trails to cycle around. My housemates and I have often cycled down there on the weekends for exercise, it's a pretty place. The equivalent of Richmond Park in North London is Hampsted Heath (http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/green-spaces/hampstead-heath/Pages/default.aspx), which is set in a similarly suburban bit of town and has no deer. It does have open air swimming pools though which are great fun in summer. It's definitely one of the places that Londoners go to get away from London as it were. There's also one of the best views of London from Parliament Hill there.

The other place that has an exceptional view of the city is Primrose Hill (http://www.primrosehill.com/) which is an area between Regent's Park and Camden that has been popular with successful musicians, artists, actors, models and such. There's a good selection of restaurants and bars there, and if you were coming as a couple I'd readily encourage you to go see a gig at The Roundhouse in Camden (http://www.roundhouse.org.uk/), which is the best gig venue in London in my mind. You're also within walking distance of London Zoo (http://www.zsl.org/zsl-london-zoo/) which you may or may not like, but I tend to think is pretty good. They have an artificial rainforest there where the animals can run freely and you can get close to them; it's a pretty fun exhibit.

More centrally there's lots of well-known touristy stuff, some of which is brilliant, a lot of which is (in my opinion) utter dross. The Science Museum (http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/) and the Natural history Museum (http://www.nhm.ac.uk/) are arguably two of the best in the world (The NHM is better than the American Museum of Natural History, the Science Museum isn't quite as good as the Air and Space Museum imho, ymmv). The NHM has a lot of stuff you can't see anywhere else, and I know as a kid I always loved the dinosaur skeletons, and the replica life-sized blue whale they have hanging from the ceiling in there. The Science Museum is more fun for kids, with areas like the Launchpad and the Google Web Lab. Both places run a lot of events too, especially for kids. If your kid can handle more serious stuff or has an interest in history then the British Museum is always excellent.

Two less well known museums, but once that are world-class are the Wellcome Collection (http://www.wellcomecollection.org/) and The Hunterian (http://www.rcseng.ac.uk/museums). Intuitively I'd say that a 9yo would probably find the Wellcome Collection a bit more boring than anything else I have suggested, but as an adult I am always blown away by the quality of the exhibitions they put on, which often try to contrast and relate science and medicine with art and culture in really clever ways. The Hunterian is a simply brilliant museum, although again it might be a bit too subtle for a 9yo. They do have a giant skeleton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Byrne_(human_curiosity)) though, from a chap who paid his mates to bury him at sea so he wouldn't end up on show after he died. His mates then sold him to a doctor as soon as he popped his clogs.

If you want more parks or playgrounds, there are a couple of really good ones in West London. The Princess Diana Memorial Playground (http://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/kensington_gardens/diana_playground.cfm) is pretty cool in my view, although I have only been in once while babysitting for a friend (they only let you in if you have a child). They have a pirate ship! Holland Park Adventure Playground (http://www.dayoutwiththekids.co.uk/family-fun/Holland_Park_Adventure_Playground/2767) is also pretty fun. It's probably not worth a detour, but if you were in the Notting Hill area and needed to have your kid wind off some steam it might be something to bear in mind.

Food wise I have always enjoyed going around Borough Market (http://www.boroughmarket.org.uk/); there's a huge variety of stalls, and most offer free samples. They also have a branch of the Neil's Yard Dairy there, which you should make a point of making a pilgrimage to if you have any love of cheese at all. The only caveat I'd make about Borough Market is that it does get incredibly crowded at lunchtimes and weekends (when the most stallholders are there - saturdays usually I think) so it might not be absolutely ideal with a small kid. I'd avoid the Portobello Road Market unless you have wistful notions of seeing where Hugh Grant lived in 'Notting Hill'. The whole place always seems ridden with tourists any time I go, and most of the stalls only seem to sell tat. The area is very pretty itself, and has a lot of nice pubs, bars and restaurants, but in general I don't see the appeal (as a tourist). Spitalfields Market (http://www.spitalfields.co.uk/?utm_source=vs&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=vs) is more interesting I think, and Smithfields Market (http://www.smithfieldmarket.com/content/buying_guide/buying-guide) too, if you like seeing a lot of meat and fish on sale in a beautiful Victorian open market. Only problem with Smithfields is that most of the business is done by about 9am.

Pretty much everything up to this point is free entry I'd add. It's amazing how much you can do in London for free, it makes me wonder why people pay such exorbitant rates for some of the more touristy "attractions"

Historical stuff that I have done and rate include the Houses of Parliament Tour (http://www.parliament.uk/visiting/visiting-and-tours/), and The Tower of London (http://www.hrp.org.uk/TowerOfLondon/) I have done the former twice and latter once and I have always found the guides to be interesting, knowledgeable, well-paced and witty. The Tower has a lot to see, you could easily spend the best part of a day there, and if you want gruesome history and such then that's far more real than the London Dungeon (AVOID). The Palace of Westminster and the Houses of Parliament are just beautiful, and there is so much history in the place. The tours for both are not over-long either, so they'd probably survive a 9yo's attention span.

Outside London you don't have to travel too far to get to Bodiam Castle (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/bodiam-castle/). We used to go here all the time as a kid and it's brilliant. It's also something you simply don't have in the US. As an added bonus there also seems to be an active steam railway servicing the castle, so that would probably be a fun day out.

SHIT TO AVOID:

Madame Taussads
The London Dungeon
Tour of London Bus Rides
River Tours (seriously, just take the river bus, it's a fraction of the price and you don't have a hungover Bulgarian arts student mumbling facts at you the whole time. London is great to see from the city, since the river is so dominant in its history)
The Planetarium
The Sea Life Centre

I'll have a think about some other things. Closer to the time you may find the kids section of Time Out (http://www.timeout.com/london/kids/) useful. They do a pretty comprehensive listing of all sorts of events that are on for kids in London, you'd probably find it helpful and an interesting way to find things to do in London that would be closer to what the natives do.

I don't think the RAZR is going to have a GSM radio in it. So basically you will be stuck with either borrowing a phone or buying a cheap one unless you are planning on buying a new phone before you go, then you would want to look for "world phone" as a marketing pitch on Verizon or Sprint.

(iPhone 4S/5 would fall in that category)

Some models do, even though Verizon is CDMA, though it may be locked/disabled.

How's the exchange rate now? When I went a few years ago it was like 1 pound to 1.5 dollars. Needless to say I couldn't have afforded myself if work wasn't paying the tab.

Edinburgh and London are completely different beasts.  Edinburgh is fucking awesome.  There's a lot to see and do and the castle is fucking amazing.  London is just immense and full of anything you want to find.  You could spend 6 months there and not even scratch the surface of everything there is to do.  I highly advise going to the British Museum (http://www.britishmuseum.org/) while you are there.  It's also worth catching a football match, if you're lucky enough to have a decent one going on while you're there.  I would disagree about the cheesy stuff-  some of it is worth doing just for the "I did that" factor, such as the London Dungeon.  

We have a couple guys that travel to Europe several times a year.  The global data plans on Verizon are brutal expensive if your phone is a global phone.   The xt912 model on the razor is the global version of that phone. 

You can buy a prepaid phone for fairly cheap and that would probably be a easier route.  Just buy two of them and you are good. 

www.xe.com/ucc

Was about 1.65 when I was in Scotland in May.

No idea what sort of budget you're aiming in, but some places from cheap to not so cheap...

http://www.tayyabs.co.uk/ *
http://www.thedrapersarms.com/
http://www.arbutusrestaurant.co.uk/
http://www.harwoodarms.com/
http://www.saltyard.co.uk/ **
http://thehawksmoor.com/
http://dabbous.co.uk/
http://www.dinnerbyheston.com/

*Not really that good but an institution.
**Not at all English but just that good.

For cooking yourself....

http://www.boroughmarket.org.uk/ There are other farmers markets that pop up - but this is the most institutional.
Basically most of the turkish area in N4

Super markets are unfortunately terrible.

Other shit you shouldn't skip :

http://www.shakespearesglobe.com - assuming the youngun can cope - buy standing tickets, and only for an actual shakespeare play.
http://www.tate.org.uk/visit/tate-modern
http://www.londoneye.com/
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/ - the science museum is cool too, but not as cool as this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms - if in season and there is a concert that isn't too heavy

They aren't really objectively that amazing, but I'm also a big fan of the maritime museums in Greenwich. The refurbed cutty sark and observatory espeicially.

http://www.rmg.co.uk/


What time of year are we talking about?

I'll put in an ad for the British museum too.  I can still remember the shock of "What do you mean thats the real fucking Rosetta stone just over there?  THE Rosetta stone?" when I was there.  A lot of great stuff from the days when the Victorians gladly grabbed stuff from the brown people around the world, and Britain is still refusing to give it back.

Also, a good deal of the Parthenon Frieze (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenon_Frieze) is there. 

The first time I went to the British Museum as a teenager in the mid-80s they had mummies on display too, great fun for any kids.  They were working on them or something the second time I visited and not on display, unfortunately.

The smell of the Mummy Room was.... pretty much exactly what you would expect.   :grin:

Oh, and the bog guy was on display too, with a glass plate over him about an inch away so you could lean in real close and look into his boggy preserved face.

Other kid-fun stuff I recall there was bunches of Viking & Roman treasure and coins.  You can zip through the highlights in a day if you are a hard taskmaster/not a sign reader, but you could easily spend three days there in just some of the sections, or up to a week if you are a slowpoke.   And it's another of the many free attractions so it's easy to just pop in and out when the mood strikes.

Unless your idea of "art I'd love to see" is trash hung up on strings or feces in jars, I would stay away from the Tate.  I went and it was one of the most boring experiences I've ever had.

British Museum was where it's at though.  Great place.

The Tate Modern has some really good stuff. So what if it also has some wanky modern art? The modern period is a long one and there's lots of good stuff in there. The waterlillies alone are worth visiting, plus the cy twombly, the bacon, the picasso, etc.

Depends what is up when you go, but they have good stuff.

Tate Britain is great though. I went there twice.

Great info.  Just to circle back, I didn't actually fix any sudoer gaps; I wrote a script to detect them and wrote a numbered list of recommendations for proper management of /etc/sudoers.

My budget is "I'm probably not going to be in London again".  This works in the other way as well, meaning I don't want to waste time or money.

Timeframe is summerish.  June-August inclusive.  Unless, of course, the wife changes her mind but I'm not very interested in being in London any other season.  Also, school.

Pre-paid phone is probably the way to go, I've heard this recommended several times on this board.  I feel like an old man because I don't know where I need to go get one, but my mental image is from brown people on the street corner.  That's probably incorrect.

I have been to art museums before (we have one in Atlanta, even) so I'll rank those down a bit.  Plus taking a nine-year-old to an art museum just isn't fun for anyone.  The NHM is probably going on the itinerary, though, if only because Daddy wants to do that.

Restaurants and parks are good, in general, can't get enough of that shit.  Well, the wife can. :oh_i_see:

So, the Eye.  Yes or no?  Do I want to stand in line for ninety minutes to ride a wheel for one hundred twenty minutes?

Given you'd be able to do a weekday off peak slot, you should be able to avoid too much of a wait.

But if it does put you off, there are also mediocre restaurants at the top of the centre point tower or the Swiss re 'gerkin' building for alternative views.

If you're in London for a week, I'd skip the Eye. It's expensive and there will be queues even on weekdays in summer because of school holidays (unless you manage to be there during term time). But it's on the South bank just down from Museum of the Moving Image (which I love, being a film geek).

I will echo calls for NHM and Science Museum. Both are free and both have loads for the kids to do. Science Museum especially has loads of interactive exhibitions. They're currently doing something about Alan Turing (who, incidentally, also lived in Maida Vale at one time) until July next year.

Other stuff your kid might like (based on the fact that I took mine for a day out there back in February):

Buckingham Palace - you can't not go and see it. Plus nice walk through the park.
Tower Of London - Henry VIII's (and other kings) armour, medieval weapons, ghosts, crown jewels, medieval torture devices... if your kid isn't fascinated by this stuff then I don't know what to say.
Hampton Court Palace - famous maze, beautiful gardens, fantastic old building.

If you can justify getting out of London for a day, do it and go see something that is Not London. Couple of suggestions:

Windsor (40 mins on train from Paddington) - castle (built by William the Conqueror), park, nice old town, near Eton School and Runnymede.
Brighton (60 mins on train from Victoria) - it's Brighton. They say you can see France on a clear day but I don't know why you'd want to do that.

That village I posted a picture of above is only 40 minutes from Euston as well (plus a short walk across fields). Small, rural English village in the Chilterns with a couple of pubs. Most people go there to walk in the nearby National Trust forest then stop for lunch and a pint. My kids love it (we used to live there until earlier this year) but YMMV.  Nearby market town has farmers markets with local produce - it's an entirely different experience from Borough Market.

I used to live in Port Solent in Portsmouth and on a clear day I could very nearly almost see the Isle of Wight, especially when I closed my eyes.  You could, however, do a wine run to France with a fast RIB in about an hour.  It's been nothing but foggy and rainy for the last... it seems forever.  You should buy some of those umbrella hats for you and the family.  That way you can have your hands free to carry around all your overpriced, overtaxed, shopping.  No, srsly, I wouldn't bother with the Eye either, unless it's totally foggy... then it would be simply magical and scary.  What about that Ripley's Odditorium or whatever?  Kids should like that, right?  There's skulls and it's interactive.  And expensive, from what I hear.  Anyone ever go there?  I don't go anywhere.  I'm a mushroom.

Seconding all of these suggestions, they're not all cheap (Dinner by Heston could easily run to 00s) but Tayaabs is without dispute the best loved Pakistani restaurant in London, and worth a visit. The Harwood Arms is right around the corner from where I used to live and it is brilliant; they do a fantastic scotch egg, brilliant British food, and have a pub quiz on the first tuesday of every month which is fun.

The one place I always recommend to American friends (and drag a fair few too) who doubt the quality of British food is St John Bread and Wine in Spitalfields (https://www.stjohngroup.uk.com/). It is pretty inexpensive but they make arguably the best bread you can buy in London (the number of other top restaurants that serve their bread is pretty extensive). It's all lots of small-ish plates of lovely things, their terrine is fantastic and last time I went I had some incredible Abroath smokies. If you want to shell out a bit more for a more formal meal, St. John Hotel in Chinatown just got it's first Michelin Star and is genuinely brilliant. If you only go one place, go to one of these.

Other places that come to mind include Dishoom (http://www.dishoom.com/) and Haandi in Knightsbridge (http://www.haandi-restaurants.com/Knightsbridge_MainPage.aspx) for Indian food. The Riding House Cafe (http://www.ridinghousecafe.co.uk/), The Garrison (http://www.thegarrison.co.uk/), The Pig's Ear (http://www.thepigsear.info/Menu.htm), The Dean Street Townhouse (http://www.deanstreettownhouse.com/menus) (who also do a great - and possibly the best value - afternoon tea), Quo Vadis (http://www.quovadissoho.co.uk/), The Modern Pantry (http://www.themodernpantry.co.uk/) and The Laughing Gravy (http://www.thelaughinggravy.co.uk/) for British food. Any of the Brindisa restaurants (http://www.brindisa.com/restaurants/) are a good bet for Spanish food, Casa Brindisa is probably the best place to eat near to the NHM and Science museums in South Ken. Lantana (http://www.lantanacafe.co.uk/) or Caravan (http://www.caravankingscross.co.uk/) for brunch. MeatLiquor (http://www.meatliquor.com/) (handy for lunch if you're on Oxford Street), MeatMarket (http://www.themeatmarket.co.uk/), Dirty Burger (http://www.eatdirtyburger.com/), or Goodman (http://www.goodmanrestaurants.com/) for burgers.


Supermarkets aren't all so bad, but they vary a lot in quality, variety and service. Waitrose (http://www.waitrose.com/) and Marks and Spencer Food (http://www.marksandspencer.com/Food-Wine/b/199646031) are the nicest (bar whole foods, (http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/) but there's only four or five of those in London). Waitrose are pretty easy to find across London and always have great staff in my experience, Marks and Spencers food halls are a bit less common. Next down on the tier is Sainsbury's (http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/sol/index.jsp) which is fine, but not great. Then Tesco (http://www.tesco.com/), which is the monolithic chain that has the largest market share. By this point you're into the stores where you only have about a 50% chance of getting a staff member who even speaks english, let alone wants to help you. If you can find a Cooperative Food (http://www.co-operative.coop/food/welcome/) they are generally good and have some really good own-brand food. After that you're into the territory of Lidl (http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk) (pile it high, sell it cheap, no frills but not bad), Aldi (http://www.aldi.co.uk/) (same as Lidl) and Asda (http://www.asda.com/) (British Wal-Mart, literally). Last time I went to Asda I almost got run over by a staff member on one of those sit-on street sweeper machines, cleaning up whatever shit the other customers had seen fit to throw all over the floor. I haven't been back since. Note that a lot of the Tescos and Sainsburys you see will be the 'Metro' or 'Local' versions of the supermarkets, which means they are smaller, mroe expensive and have less range. My suggestion to you would be to organise an on-line shop somewhere like Waitrose for all your basics (cereal, toilet roll, butter, eggs, pasta etc) then pick the rest up from wherever.

If you like cheese you owe it to yourself to check out the cheese rooms at Whole Foods Kensington (http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/kensington) and John Lewis on Oxford Street (http://www.johnlewis.com/Shops/DSTemplate.aspx?Id=531) and either of the Neil's Yard Dairies (Borough Market (http://www.nealsyarddairy.co.uk/shops_borough.html) or Covent Garden (http://www.nealsyarddairy.co.uk/shops_covgarden.html)). There's also the La Cave a Fromage (http://www.la-cave.co.uk/) next to the station in South Kensington, worth a visit if you're in the area for the NHM and Science museums.


Agree with all of these except the globe. The globe is fantastic, and the standard of the productions is top-notch, but having been there a couple of times I cannot see it being any fun for a 9yo. They won't be able to see the stage, they'll probably struggle to stay interested in what's going on, and I doubt they'll enjoy standing for 3-4 hours. You know your kid best, but I'd say this is one you might want to skip.


My advise would be to make the most of all the free stuff you can do that's great (a lot of the stuff that's been listed here) and spend your money on nice dinners. But then I'm a foodie, so I'm biased.


I have a bit of a soft spot for the eye, it's the one touristy thing I think is half-decent. That said, I probably wouldn't go on it at the peak of summer. You can get good views of the cityscape from Parliament Hill or Primrose Hill. Alternatively there's a bar up on the 32nd floor of Centre Point (http://www.paramount.uk.net/level-32/bar/) that has a phenomenal view, I don't know how they take to kids though. There's also Duck and Waffle (http://duckandwaffle.com/) which is a fab restaurant and bar on the 40th floor of Heron Tower, they'd probably be better with kids I'd imagine. There is another good view from the Walkways over Tower Bridge (http://www.towerbridge.org.uk/TBE/EN/Exhibition/). Lastly one option that will be open to you, but isn't yet (so I can't vouch for it) is The View from The Shard (http://the-shard.com/the-view-from-the-shard). It's the highest you will be able to get in the city, but I have a suspicion that it could be quite expensive. Might be good to combo up with Borough Market though since the Shard is right next to the Market.

Um, other stuff to avoid:

Aberdeen Angus
Gourmet Burger Kitchen
Garfunkels
Planet Hollywood
Hard Rock Cafe
Strada
Cafe Rouge
Med Kitchen

If you go to any of these places then complain about the food in London being bad I will find you and punch you in the dick.

I gather that's the name of an eating place. Beef from the Aberdeen Angus breed of cattle is excellent.

I always enjoyed Wagamama (http://www.wagamama.com/restaurants), but it may not be that good anymore.  I think we went to the one in Soho, but it was fucking eons ago.

Wagamama is ok in a pinch, but it isn't as good as it used to be. After Alan Yau sold the chain to a private equity company the portion sizes have shrunk and the quality has dipped and it's not just quite the same. The only chain restaurants I rate personally are Wahaca, Carluccios, Byron and Le Pain Quotidien. Not all perfect, but all can be relied on for a good meal.

Wagamamas is ok, there are quite a few new noodle bars in the West End that are better and similar prices but if you're in a shopping centre somewhere Wagamamas is very handy.  Although there are many fine dining places in London if you are going to do one go to the aforementioned Dinner. My review here. (http://edesiaishungry.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/dinner-by-heston-blumenthal-london.html)

Other nice places to go that may not have been mentioned yet:

Marylebone High Street is nice for mostly window shopping and somewhere to find a decent lunch. Portobello Road Market is a Saturday antiques market with all sorts of interesting stuff, although it gets very busy. The Imperial War Museum is fantastic. The South Bank has enough things to fill an afternoon.  Churchill War Rooms are cool. Spitalfields is a nice area and market if you want to also see various sites in the City. You can go up Monument and get some good views. Not much point in going further East, Canary Wharf is a sterile collection of offices and the Olympic Park is closed until 2014. Out of London - A train down to Brighton for the day might be cool. The kids will love the Pier, the beach front has all sorts of arts and activities. The Pavillion is stunning, and The Lanes are an area of small independent shops with some really cool stuff.  Cambridge is worth a visit for a real taste of a historical provincial city.

I'd add Leon to that, and stress Byron specifically, for a US comparison I rate their burgers above Shake Shack.

I forgot Leon. Byron is my first choice for burgers if I'm generally out and about in London, I can't compare them to Shake Shack since I've never had that sadly.

Also, everything penfold suggested. If it's a nice day you can do a lot worse than simply walk along the South Bank from Borough Market to Lambeth Bridge. Westminster Abbey and St. Pauls are also two beautiful buildings without any parallel in the US.

Examining the website it appears to have changed quite a bit.  We used to get beer orders standing in line.  I'm not even sure it was a "chain", per se, when I was in London.  There may have only been a couple of them.  It was definitely top notch at the time.  It makes me sad that it appears to have become a PF Changs.

I was *born* in London, but not having been there for 15 years I am finding this thread is very useful.

I might have to arrange a holiday there, you guys are making it sound much nicer than I thought it was  :awesome_for_real:

For food specifically I'd honestly rank it 3rd globally, only behind Taipei and New York. Maybe San Sebastian.

For museums and galleries, second to Washington DC.

For stage based arts it beats everywhere, not least because of sheer variety.

For sport it has tonnes of options but tickets are a nightmare.

Being from the sticks in Kentucky, I fucking loved it.  The only negative was the expense. 

As a local (http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2860/cockneywanker.jpg) I feel I should say something, although you’ve had lots of good advice already.

Maida Vale is just fine, as long as the property is near a Tube (also known as the London Underground) (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/standard-tube-map.gif) station. Almost anywhere near a Tube station should work. You’ll be taking the Tube to get to places.

Waitrose and Marks & Spencer are supermarkets used by “ordinary Brits”, albeit the slightly wealthier ones, and they’re very pleasant.

Borough Market (http://www.boroughmarket.org.uk/) – that’s by London Bridge tube station – is a lot of fun and there’s a stall there that sells fantastic tea. There’s also a lovely little pub nearby called The Rake (http://www.utobeer.co.uk/aboutus_rake.html). I appreciate you won’t spend a lot of time in pubs with a child in tow but if you fancy a quick pint then you could do worse. On the theme of booze, London’s best whisky shop imho is also nearby – it’s called The Whisky Exchange (http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/Vinopolis.aspx).

As you are on holiday and probably don’t mind being a little silly with your money, you could also check out Fortnum & Mason (http://www.fortnumandmason.com/) and Harrods (http://www.harrods.com/). Harrods food hall is great for tea, marmalade, British-style biscuits and other Britishy things.

Yes to the Science edit: I mean British Museum and Natural History museum. Also, I’d suggest the National Gallery (http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/). It’s nice and central, at Trafalgar Square in the heart of London, it’s free and it’s always fun to see the actual original paintings by some pretty famous artists (Rembrandt, Monet, Titian, Rubens, Michelangelo, Botticelli, van Gogh etc).

You probably want to go on a little walk around the Whitehall/Buckingham Palace area of London. It takes in Trafalgar Square (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafalgar_Square), Buckingham Palace, Whitehall – this is a road where many British government buildings are located, along with some statues – the Houses of Parliament and Westminster Abbey (http://www.westminster-abbey.org/) (where Kate & William were married among other things). They’re all pretty close to each other so take a walk, don’t jump in the tube I’d suggest. You'll need to check when Parliament does tours if you want to go inside.

A nice restaurant which does British food is Shepherd (http://www.langansrestaurants.co.uk/shepherds.html)s. I also strongly recommend J Sheekey (http://www.j-sheekey.co.uk/) if you like fish. There is a man outside wearing a top hat who will open the door for you, so it must be good, right? (Seriously, it is good).

Personally I like Indian, Chinese and Japanese food a lot, but obviously there’s no shortage of that in the US either.  Nonetheless, I strongly recommend Dishoom (http://www.dishoom.com/), for affordable “Indian” food – it’s actually Persian via Mumbai (or Bombay as the café puts it). The world’s greatest, and possibly most expensive, curry house is the Cinammon Club (http://www.cinnamonclub.com/). Absolutely fantastic.

For a cheapish Japanese-style place try Bincho (http://www.bincho.co.uk/about-bincho-soho) in Soho. No Sushi – they grill small portions of meat or fish and put them on skewers. If you want to splash out then I recommend Matsuri (http://www.matsuri-restaurant.com/).

London also has some lovely parks (http://www.visitlondon.com/things-to-do/activities/openspace/large-parks), right in the heart of the city.

Do you like theatre? (stage - movie theatres are generally called cinemas) London has loads of them (http://www.officiallondontheatre.co.uk/home/), sometimes with well-known actors (Jude Law, Helen Mirren & Daniel Radcliffe at the moment among others). I guess your child might not put up with two hours of Henry V but they might love War Horse (http://warhorseonstage.com/tickets/london) (complete with life-size puppet horses – it’s a lot better than it sounds;) Yes it was a play before it was a movie!) Or there’s always musicals like The Lion King or Matilda.

I could go on but that’s probably more than enough from me!

There's lots of good stuff to do but it's a horrible place - personally I certainly wouldn't suggest a holiday there, especially given where you live. I fucking hated living and working there so I left 10 years ago for a place in the country. I had managed to persuade the missus that a move back up to Leeds would be a good thing but jobs and circumstances worked against us - so that's off the cards for now.

Do I need someone to assist me in a grocery store?  Last time I was in a Tesco I found what I wanted easily enough since it was so small.

If they try to trick you into buying that mushrooms on toast crap just punch then in the face and run.

Um no? Not sure if I'm missing something, why would you need assistance?:) But there will be people wandering around in store uniforms you can hassle if need be.

Edit: Ah you were responding to something K9 said above. Nah , you'll be fine.

Yeah I think a day trip is probably more in order :)

As for Leeds, well, we're moving to just North of Manchester in a few weeks hopefully, which will be interesting. I'll miss Leeds, great city, but having been here 8 years now I'm ready for a change.

It's not a huge point, more illustrative of the service of the different stores. On the odd occasions where I haven't been able to find what I want I usually find that at somewhere like Tescos the staff member will take me back to the isle where I had just spent the last 3-4mins looking, only to spend 2-3mins looking themselves before telling me that they don't stock what I want. At Waitrose the staff always seem to know the full inventory of the store. They are also far better at bagging things at the till; no heavy bottles stacked on top of fruit and egg situations.

/grumble

http://www.londonwalks.com/

They have dozens of cheap, interesting walking tours that run around 2 hours long and start from tube stations. I have gone on at least 20 over the years and the worst one was still good ranging all the way up to great.

Ah, walking tours, nice.

Discussed things with the wife.  She's still interested in cultural immersion, so we will continue looking for "Ye Olde" neighborhoods.  But driving to the green belt isn't out the window.

As for grocery stores, I have had arguments with people in the local ones about how lemon juice doesn't belong with drinking juices.  I seem to be in the minority on this.

Draconian, have you been to Atlanta?  I need to know if you know what you are talking about. :awesome_for_real:

If you're looking for somewhere with more of a 'villagey' feel, the closest you can get in London is Barnes, which is pretty much a village smack dab in the middle of SW London. The other place to look at would be West Hampstead, but I'd bet on these being pricier options than Maida Vale.

You can find lovely big green parks without driving out to the green belt too. Try Richmond Park - it has deer and a nice view. I think it belongs to The Queen so it's a bit Old Worldy by default I guess. The King of England used to hunt his deer there. (I mean, I don't know if you care about that stuff but if you're looking for a bit of Merry Olde England it might work:)

I have approximate knowledge of many things.

I live in the middle of a hay field, so I would be more interested in gardens.  I'm not actually thinking Middle Ages, more like what a typical Modern English would do (nyuk nyuk).  Might be hard to explain.  Jane Goodall might be the best analogy.  Trouble is, people with the pertinent info are all like "What the shit do you want to go to London for?"  Reminds me of how when I told Scots that I was just visiting their country to see the sights, they looked at me like I was a fookin moran.

To be honest, I can't stay a city person for long.  London is fun for a while but I wouldn't want to live here forever.  I like woods and bugs and stuff.  I will miss my 20-some pigeons group named Hank but I'll be glad to leave for my sister's in December.  I don't know where I'm off to after that.  Probably back this way or somewhere else in Europe.  Dunno.  I only came here because my husband basically told me to go to hell.   :oh_i_see:

London isn't that bad, is it?  I'm sure I could think of much more hellish places.

London is great so long as you like cities.

Clearly it is not for you if you hate buildings or are tired of life.

As you mention gardens, has anyone recommended Kew Gardens yet?

They are fairly impressive and is the sort of attraction you can spy English people in the mist at.

Fair enough. Ordinary Londoners do go and sit in the parks though, when it's sunny. Probably Hyde Park or Green Park more than Richmond I guess. You could take a picnic. Cheese and pickle sandwiches and some apples maybe.

RHS gardens at Wisley - but you will need a car.

Very sound recommendation.  Noted.

EDIT: We will have a car.  I don't remember what we will be doing with it, but we will have one.

I love Kew Gardens.  I was there in the summer, though.  You'll have a great time in London.  It's good fun but it's hard to breathe here.  Not enough air. 

I don't think so, Kew is a good shout, I'd also suggest Highgate Cemetary (http://www.highgate-cemetery.org/) and Hampton Court (http://www.hrp.org.uk/HamptonCourtPalace/).

That said, the gardens in Hyde Park and Regents Park are pretty nice themselves and we (Londoners) do love our parks. Holland Park, Battersea Park, Victoria Park, Richmond Park being less touristy; St. James, Green, Hyde and Regents Park being moreso.

Edit: Since you have a car, I'd be tempted to go out and visit some of the National Trust (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/) places down in Sussex, Surrey and Kent. Nymans (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/nymans/), Ightam Mote (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/ighthammote/) and Wakehurst Place (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/wakehurst-place/) would be my recommendations.

Kew Gardens are superb, any time of year.

I also really like Richmond Park. It's a bit more plain than many of London's parks, but it's full of deer (at least it used to be when I was a kid) and it somehow feels very.... old. Very relaxing and a great place to people-watch. That makes me sound like some kind of weird stalker, sorry.

It didn't until you wrote that. :awesome_for_real:

Hah, hoist by my own petard?


I'll stop now....   :uhrr:

Penny slowly drops... my suggestion to Apocrypha to not go to London for a holiday doesn't apply to you. London is a great place to visit and I still do - even went for a day out there with the kids on my birthday this year. But Apoc currently lives in Leeds which is my favourite city in the UK - I can only offer my opinion that he might not find London to be as nice as is being made out here in comparison to there. The beers better in Leeds for a start. Also, chips and gravy. :awesome_for_real:

Hmmm!

Yeah, London is great to visit and even to live if you love cities.  I can't think of many cities in the US that I'd even consider living in let alone actually do it, like I am with London.  To be honest, if I were going to visit London and wanted to explore outside the city, I'd go to France.  Paris is a city I wouldn't mind living in, actually.  I like the way they treat day to day life there.

You can get a train from St Pancras to Paris in about 3 hours if it interests you. Paris does not agree with me but if you've never been it could be a worthwhile side trip.

Personally I'd recommend Cambridge more.

Cambridge really is quite beautiful. Bit of a beast to get there by train, iirc.

Train to Cambridge is about an hour and the coach takes around two. If you want to go there is no excuse really. My Aunt lives in Cambridge so I've been there enough times to find it boring  :awesome_for_real:.

[ur=http://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/brompton-cemeteryl]Brompton cemetery[/url] is also an interesting spot to visit, very gothic and if you're down in central London it might be easier to fit in than Highgate (right next to West Kensington tube station, a few minutes from Earl's Court). It's the sort of thing I could imagine a kid really enjoying. For restaurants there's loads, there's been some really good suggestions already so I'll cheat a little and put in a link to a blog run-down that I've had pretty good experience with London Eater's Favourites (http://londoneater.com/my-favourites/)

Cambridge isn't really too bad to get to, there's frequent trains from King's Cross and it's a shorter trip than Paris so you'd get a bit more time there. On the other hand I'm honestly not sure if the ticket will be much cheaper, if it was the same price and I had a couple of things in Paris I wanted to do (hitting the Eiffel Tower and one or two specific cafes for example) I'd probably pick Paris. Cambridge is definitely nicer for wandering around though and if you like olde worlde it's going to be a better choice certainly.

Brighton is more awesome than Cambridge, less twee though.

Ate at lardo (http://www.lardo.co.uk/) ahead of panto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantomime) at the Hackney Empire last night.

The panto isn't much use to summer visitors - but was fucking awesome as it is every year at the Empire (and blessedly not a soap star in sight).

As for Lardo - also highly recommended. The menu is a mix of pizza, pasta and sharing plates, though the pizza's are 'unusual' and work best as a bread to accompany the rest of the menu. Eating pretheatre so in something of a rush, but nonetheless got through half the cocktail and small plate menu all which were uniformly excellent, the octopus salad and quail dish especially. Given the quality it also managed to keep a very relaxed diner/trattoria feel, which outside of a gastropub can be hard to maintain in central London.

I feel this thread needs more restaurant notes.

I agree.

I don't know about going to London and then eating pizza.

I don't know about going to London and then eating.   :awesome_for_real:  I can't think of another city where I've had so many mediocre-to-bad food experiences.

That's a large part of the reason behind this thread.  Some posters get butt-hurt when english food is insulted, so I figure I will get some good and earnest examples.

But really if you deep-fry everything, what do you expect? :why_so_serious:

My recollection of going there as a kid was that I had some really great Indian food and I don't remember any of the rest of it, food-wise.

You're welcome to insult typical UK restaurants outside of London. It's not that there aren't good places, they are just frustratingly hard to find in the sea of mediocre chains. Indian is probably the obvious exception.

In London OTOH eating bad food is a choice. Do not make that choice.

It seems like you need to know where to go for the good Indian food.  The first couple of times I tried Indian food in London I went on the theory that I could follow the same approach I do in SF for, say, burritos or Chinese, where I can pick a place at random (avoiding chains of course) and it'll be decent at worst.  This approach does not work in London.

On the other hand, the last time I used Yelp to find this place (http://www.yelp.com/biz/tayyabs-london), and it was some of the best Indian food I've had.

Tayyaabs is awesome; I'll acknowledge that sorting the good from the bad in London isn't as straightforward as in other cities, but I agree with eldaec, there really is no excuse to eat bad food in London.

Took my Japanophile sister to Bone Daddies (http://bonedaddiesramen.com/) for lunch the other day, she proclaimed it the only place worth eating Ramen in London (although she hasn't been to Ittenbari, which is also great.)

Definitely hit up either (or all): Kew Gardens, Hampstead Heath, Highgate Cemetary if you're looking for greenery.

Find some good gastropubs for lunches--there are quite a lot.

I used to like browsing Foyles Bookstore for the sheer non-intuitive hostility of the way it was organized; Forbidden Planet is nearby and that was a good geek experience. Not sure if Foyles is more coherently organized these days. Good walk from there down to Covent Garden. Sometimes I'd walk all the way from Tottenham Court Road Tube to Trafalgar Square, that was a good slice-of-London walk.

Camden Town Market was always fun but haven't done that in a long time, it could well suck now, I dunno.

I liked the Victoria & Albert Museum (photo below) quite a bit. I'd also second Hampton Court as you get a palace and garden combined. They were demonstrating medieval cooking in the kitchens.

I'd probably recommend against the car. My friend rented a car and he said they only used it to drive to Stonehenge and the rest of the time parking was really expensive. We skipped the car and spent two weeks taking the tube. Take a look at the London Pass.

(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/46/dsc06220ri.jpg)

V&A seconded.

In fact the room you photograph there is probably one of my favourite places to visit.

The work in the artifacts there are amazing.   The quality is unbelievable.

The room is full of commisioned copies of many of the most famous statues, columns and decorated walls and ceilings in the ancient world.
Some of the copies are now in much better condition that the originals and some are the only remaining record of them as the originals no longer exist intact.

And if you are ever in Orlando, Victoria & Albert's is a GREAT place to eat a yummy seven course meal...

If you can understand this then you might enjoy your trip a little more

http://youtu.be/4RwyPDPlFA8

I went to L'Escargot (http://www.lescargotrestaurant.co.uk) over the weekend, which is a little more English than it sounds (owned by British chef Marco Pierre White). It's expensive but the food is beautiful and yes they do serve Escargot, swimming in garlic butter. Just drag them out of their shells with the special fork and mmm yum yum.

It's in Soho, which is nice and central.

I know booze is probably off the agenda with a child in tow but I have to mention Lowlander (http://www.lowlander.com/) which is my new favourite pub (they do food too). They'll sit you down and give you a menu of beers. Page after page just of beers to choose from. They're more likely to be Belgian than British but it's all European, right? Fantastic place. I recommend the Tripel Karmeliet. Put the child on the Circle Line and let them do a complete circuit while you have a few, they'll be fine.

That last sentence is humour

Oh, not due to the child.

I went to L'Escargot years ago - when they used to breed the snails they served on the skylight above the main dining room. My steak was overdone. Not a judgement on the place now as this was 25 years ago - I just haven't been back since. I did like going to Garlic & Shots on Frith St around the corner though when I lived in London.

I'm not going to comment on the Lowlander or Belgian beer because the ensuing rant about the destruction of the British beer industry will get me relegated to the Politics section.  :heartbreak:

If I get a good steak anywhere on the Isles, I'll eat my underwear.

I watched the video.  I might be screwed, but since I managed to find a handful of English-speakers in Glasgow I think I should be OK in London.

Waffling on the car.  If I don't have one I feel trapped, but I'll think about skipping it.

Tbh you don't need a car.

I had a car and literally never used it. I sold it because I was paying insurance for nothing.

I just spent six months in London without access to a car.  It's way more of a pain to get in a car and drive somewhere in London than it is to walk a bit to the market or around the corner to the closest tube station.  Then there's parking in London... NIGHTMARE! 

I used a car frequently when I was in Ireland, but never ever needed one in London. It's just not necessary.

Alright, I'll give it a pass until I'm ready to ditch the woman and drive into the border country for a blackout.  Then I'll rent something sporty.

Real tube map:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/85841906/Restaurant%20Tube%20Map%20v2_5_3.png)

If looking for more recommendations, I've found the blog this comes from to be broadly sound.

I'm a pretty avid reader of cheese and biscuits. I find that Chris' tastes neatly align with my own, and I have had a bunch of good recommendations from his writing.

Ate at les Deux Salons (http://www.lesdeuxsalons.co.uk/) last night.

The place is arbutus group's take on a Parisian Brasserie, apparently based on les deux margots. We had heard good things with a warning that you can order badly.

Entering the place you can see they've gone the whole hog on Parisian style decoration, and it is a beautiful room as a result - creates a much better ambience than the 'pretheatre cafeteria' feel that Arbutus itself can have.

For me, Snail & Bacon Pie followed by Lapin a la Moutarde, GF took the Ceviche of Swordfish Lime & Chilli then Steak Frites.

The pie is in truth best thought of as a more interesting way to serve snails, the pie crust and cream & bacon sauce were both faultless, if in future I am ever served escargot in traditional "slopped on a plate with garlic butter" form, I will feel entitled to sniff loudly and adjust my beret.

The rabbit turned out equally good - meltingly tender, and the mustard sauce managed to pack in flavour without treading on the relatively delicate rabbit. This is wednesday's plats du jour, and worth planning a reservation around.

GF's dishes were also very good - but if I were to quibble, the swordfish was over seasoned and the steak took the unfortunate french approach of favouring texture over flavour (though they saved it with an excellent jus).

Desserts were lemon tart and creme brulee, both impossible to criticise.

Finally I should mention the wine policy - they have a relatively short wine list, but as a result offer every single wine in 250ml carafes at no additional markup. It makes picking wine for mutiple courses a joy and frankly every civilised restaurant should do the same. Cocktails on the other hand should probably be avoided as who in their right mind uses Beefeater gin in a martini?

Glad to see you enjoyed Deux Salons.  I heard it had gone right downhill since opening and it sounds like it is back on track. Kopapa is just up the road though, and I'm addicted to their black rice pudding. I've even skipped dessert at lunch at a few other places just to stop there later on in the afternoon for it.

I've been told that it is very hard to get from Heathrow to anywhere in London.  I'll have at least two large and two medium bags; am I going to have to drag that shit onto the tube?  I think a taxi is 50 pounds or 100 American rupees.  I don't know what neighborhood I'll be in at this time.

Travelcard versus Oystercard! Go!

A taxi is expensive but if I had more than one suitcase and no one was meeting me, I'd probably book one online.  Better yet, you could take the train to Paddington and then just get a taxi to where ever from there.  It hardly takes any time at all.

Heathrow Express (https://www.heathrowexpress.com/?gclid=CMG0yfjB97QCFU-d4AodKmMAGA)

Travelcards, Oystercards, whatever.  You can do the Oyster card pay as you go, too.

Heathrow express will be close to that 50 pounds each way, may as well taxi it. Cheapest for pre-bought round trip for the 3 of you will run 85 pounds.

EIGHTY FIVE POUNDS WHAT???  Geez.  That's lots.  Stay at a hotel with a parking lot and rent a car.  Might be easier and cheaper.  Then you could drive to Stonehenge or Brighton or something or other.

If you really do go to Stonehenge, ask if Simon Banton is there... he's a really good friend.  Make him talk to you.  He's one of the most interesting people I know.  Tell him hey.  Oh, and Stonehenge is redecorating so maybe not.

You'll want to book a cab in advance - then yes, about £50. The only other sensible plan would be the piccadily line. But personally, with suitcases I wouldn't bother.

I took the Piccadilly line option my first couple of times visiting London.  It's cheap, but it's not a pleasant experience when you're jet-lagged and weighed down with luggage.  Spending the extra money for the express train or a cab (whichever is cheaper for the number of people you have) is well worth it.

Remember you don't have to tip cabbies in the UK, so 50quid is 50quid, not 50+ some random percentage between 10 and 25 you crazy Mericans don't get me started on tipping again.

  :awesome_for_real:

You don't have to, but it is normal to at least round up a cab fare.

The only other place you tip in London is restaurants, but only if they don't put service on the bill (which about half the restaurants do these days). If there is no service included, 10% is plenty.

Not a valid battle.

A travel card is a type of fare.

An oyster is an electronic card that holds your 'ticket'.

Your question is like asking if you want to buy beer in a six pack or by credit card.

You want an oyster no matter what, the alternative is paper ticketing and they charge you through the nose. Your choice is whether to put a travel card (unlimited travel in zone n for a week/month) on the oyster, or just put cash on the oyster and pay as you go. Travel card will probably be slightly cheaper because as a tourist you'll want multiple journeys per day but you'd need to look at the transport for London site and do maths.

Personally I get by just fine with a PAYG oyster and no travel card. There is a maximum daily fare on PAYG oyster which means you most you ever pay is the equivalent of a daily travel card.

Have you figured out where you're staying yet?

I always use the Picadilly Line when I'm flying in and out of Heathrow, but then again, I'm always by myself, and don't have an extra suitcase and a kid in tow.

I'd say that if you are staying anywhere in South West London, or the Centerthen take the Picadilly Line, if you're in Maida Vale or somewhere more northern take the Heathrow Express, anywhere else I'd take a cab. Direct cabs to and from the airport will probably be the most expensive, but least hassle. Picadilly Line will only set you back about £3 each, but you'll have to do a bit more legwork.

Heathrow Connect (http://www.londontoolkit.com/travel/heathrow_connect_train.htm) for the win.

We took Piccadilly going in and my wife almost died getting her giant suitcase over the gaps and up the 100-200 stairs at each transfer.

We took Heathrow Connect at Paddington on the way out and there were no stairs no gaps. Half the price of the Express it looks like. It's a separate ticket from any other combination "ride everything" pass you may have.

I noticed this the last time I was in London (I think it was a relatively new feature at the time) and thought it was the most civilized goddamn thing I've ever seen in a transit system.  I shouldn't have to play an optimization minigame each time I get on the bus, just pretend I min/maxed and charge me appropriately.

No, we haven't.  We are now being strongly suggested to get a hotel instead of a flat, which changes things a lot if we do.  We still want to stay in a "nice London neighborhood" but this trip planning is hard, and a hotel concierge would be a great help for beleaguered Yanks.

Travel thoughts are great.  Considering the cost of airfare to London, and travel prices while there are fuckawful, I'm unlikely to sweat much over choosing a cab instead of rail.  As mentioned, I'm going to have to take a look at where we are and where we will go before I can make a decision on renting a car or not.

At this point we might get overwhelmed with the cost/planning and go to Amelia Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_Island) instead. :oh_i_see:  I'll keep working on London for now.

By and large most of London is pretty nice, there are some terrible areas, but its unlikely you'd find holiday rentals in those places anyway. I can understand the appeal of hotel services though.

Latest obstacle: the boy doesn't want to go.  Can't leave him behind, wife doesn't trust the family. :oh_i_see:

Children don't get choices.  :grin:

Agreed, but mommies do.

Leave the wife and boy behind.  Then you can visit places you wouldn't have with them along.

Or go to Amsterdam instead.  Spend your days in cafes and your nights in brothels.  Take up painting.  Wear women's under pants.  Stuff like that.

I don't have to go to Europe to do that stuff.

I'd really love to go to London without the family, but.  That.  Won't.  Happen.

So what has the wife seen that she wants to use the money on instead at the 11th hour?

Heh, it really comes down to one item and it's not money.  She's a control freak and she is having a very hard time organizing this trip to her satisfaction.  She overdid it with Yellowstone last year, even though that was my trip (I don't know anything about anything).  We are coming off the holidays, and completed a WDW trip the first week of this month.  She just finished planning a Key West trip with a friend (I'm not going, huzzah).  This Friday we are having a sleepover with a total of four nine-year-old boys.  So, she's basically overwhelmed.

She did tell me that if Bowie comes out of retirement and does a tour to promote his new album, I'm going to get to go no matter where it is.  So there's that chip in my pocket.

I'll save this thread in my Archives for when I eventually do go to London, if it's not 2013.

Tried Kopapa last night - came away a bit disappointed. Dishes varied from bland (squid, apple and quince charlotte) to kind of interesting (pork belly spring rolls, scallops). But at £45 a head for 6 small plates+wine+dessert between 2, I think I can do better. Came across as a less accomplished Modern Pantry (which I don't rate to begin with). That said, we may have ordered badly, and the peanut butter parfait was a work of art, so given your black rice pudding comment (not on the menu last night), maybe the key is to go along post-theatre for dessert and a drink.

After dinner we went on to Twelfth Night at the Apollo, and holy shit that was anything but ordinary. I don't think I've ever seen a comic performance to match Mark Rylance's Olivia. Only runs for a couple more weeks.

I'd gladly recommend Quo Vadis (http://www.quovadissoho.co.uk/) to any of y'all. The place looks formal at first glance, but was actually really relaxed. We had excellent service, and they didn't bat an eye when we asked for one of each of the starters and no mains to share (plus a couple of bites). The food was either good or great, and in the end it came to about £35 per head I think, for five starters and desert, and a couple of the 'bites', and a glass of wine for her. The crab soup was fucking brilliant I thought, and the grilled ogleshield sandwich, and the squid with fennel. I'd definitely go back.

I went out for Eritrean food in Clapham last night. It was interesting, but I don't see myself becoming a regular. The food came with injera, which is the bread they eat. The best way I can describe it is tasting and feeling like vinegary crumpets. That doesn't sound great, and really it wasn't that bad. But I think we were relieved when they brought us some extra rice to go with our platter of meat, and some forks. Place was Adulis (http://www.adulis.co.uk/). I'm not sure I'd go out f my way to recommend it, but if you have a hankering for Eritrean cuisine I guess it isn't bad, and the staff were really friendly. The food was similar enough in theme to what you can get at Tayaabs or similar, only more expensive and in smaller portions.

Off to Bob Bob Ricard on Wednesday, which should be fun. And I'm not paying, so that'll be even more fun.

Yeah I saw it wasn't on the menu any more. Oh well. I did have one very nice main course there, a steak with a really incredible cemen* butter and morcilla ragout, and I hear lots of good things about their breakfast but it's one of those places I'll pop into if theres a table rather than plan and book.

We had a table booked at Roganic (http://roganic.co.uk/) today, but as I've had a recurrence of flu/cough/sore throat this week I had to cancel. Am pretty gutted really was looking forward to trying Simon Rogan's dishes and will have to go before it shuts in June.  They did let me know a new permanent restaurant is due though.

However next week I'm meeting my brother at Alvin Leungs new Bo London (http://bolondonrestaurant.com/) on Friday and am looking forward to 16 courses of molecular wankery, frivolous dry ice, glow in the dark test tube drinks and over complicated serving dishes designed for one mouthful of food. The reviews up so far haven't been up to the 2 stars his HK restaurant has, or its place on St Pellegrinos Top 100 restaurants, but will reserve judgement for when I go.


* yeh, it could well be pronounced how you think it might be. It's Turkish, and hopefully means fenugreek.

Aw shucks, sorry you missed out on Roganic. I had my best meal of 2011 there, it's a really smashing place; wonderfully unpretentious, yet producing food of the finest order. I'm not entirely clear what the status of the place is, whe it opened it was only supposed to be there for a year, yet it still seems to be going strong, and rightfully so. I hope it sticks about for a while longer. I really want to get up to L'Enclume for the real deal, but I need to save up a few hundred squid for that one I think, or persuade someone to be REALLY nice to me.

Breakfast this morning at the Wet Fish Cafe (http://www.thewetfishcafe.co.uk/london/restaurant/index.php) in West Hampstead.

Menu was very egg focused, fortunately they do the best eggs I've had in London. The table variously had dishes covering poached, scrambled and benedict, all cooked perfectly. Home made cakes were also great. I'm reliably informed by the friend who stood in the queue for us for 40 minutes before we arrived (no reservations at the weekend) that dinner is equally good - but can't speak for it myself.


Re: Roganic

It was always ostensibly a 2 year "pop up". So due to close in June this year. The internet says they are looking for a permanent place to move to, but no idea if that is true. Would be interested to hear views on the current menu as they've had crazy staff turnover since most reviews, it's like all the chefs come down from cumbria and go mad in the big city.

Bearing in mind that the last three posts put me in mind of discussing business cards with Patrick Bateman and Paul Allen, I'm amused by this turn of phrase. :why_so_serious:

Hah, that's fair I guess. It just had a lot less frou frou than I expected from a restaurant that only serves tasting menus; perhaps there are more like that, but it didn't feel fussy, which was nice.

Roganic is open until the 22nd June, and they are then opening up a permanent restaurant somewhere in London.

Bob Bob Ricard is really, really good. That's all that I really need to say about the place.

Ha, you pretentious fuckers. I'm heading out for a good old fashioned curry tonight.

At the Cinnamon Club.

Hah, oh you man of the people you.

Cay Tre (http://www.caytresoho.co.uk/) in Soho last night.

Had heard mixed reviews, so wasn't sure about the place going in, but all turned out well.

Small plates consistently great, Squid stuffed with Duck was the stand out item, but salt pepper squid, soft shell crab, various types of roll, all great. Tonnes of flavour in everything.

Larger plates not so stellar, everything was solidly put together but just not as interesting as the menu suggested. Plus, given the default cutlery is chopsticks, they need to learn to cut meat up before sending it to table.



I think a lot of weaker reviews of this place come for people going in with a starter+main mentality, don't do that, order many starters, skip mains entirely unless something really grabs you.

The four of us got out on the right side of £120 for 6 starters, 4 mains, and a round of cocktails - in the heart of soho for this quality I was impressed.

Hah, had lunch at the Cinnamon Club today. Boy is there a big price difference between the set menu and the a la carte. Set menu was interesting but nothing fantastic.

We had the tasting menu, with wine. Deer, partridge, scallops etc. One of those meals where you have sorbet in the middle "to cleanse the pallet". You get a different wine with every course, and a man comes round and tells you about the wine, the grapes it is made from, the flavours to look out for etc. Oliver Letwin (a British politician) was at the table next door. A fun experience but I won't be going back for a year or two unless someone else is paying.

Went to Bo London with my brother last night.  It's picked up a bit of a rep since opening, mainly due to the eye watering prices but we were willing to take a risk.  We went for the chefs menu, all 14 courses of it. I can see the menu has somewhat evolved since opening, a few dishes are gone, some are replaced or have been changed considerably. I really enjoyed it, there were some exceptional courses, and some interesting modernist techniques and unusual flavours with a good number of highly memorable dishes and I've not had Chinese food in the format before.

a write up and pics are now up on my blog (http://edesiaishungry.blogspot.co.uk)

Your menu sounded a lot more exciting than ours. I agree with your sentiment on not going back. We had David Milliband in our session.

Damn, being surrounded by politicians at Cinnamon Club sounds worst than being surrounded by bankers at L'Anima. At least with bankers you won't be covered in tsunami's of bullshit every time they open their mouth.

I like your blog. Do the restaurants ever get funny about you taking pics of the courses?

I've sat in 3 star places merrily snapping away with a DSLR before now.

In one case I even lost the lens cap and had the staff crawling around looking for it.

Obviously no flash and no pointing it at other diners.

No complaints so far, although like Eladaec no flash and I keep it discreet. I have a new phone due next week, hopefully pic quality will improve in future meals.

In fact in some really high end places, the camera improves the service you recieve.

I suspect this is mostly because you're showing an interest in the food, so your table captain gets his chance to make use of all that esoteric crap he was made to learn - yes I would like to know the name of the specific cow this butter was sourced from (true story).

But also, you might be a blogger.

Viajante (http://edesiaishungry.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/viajante.html) in Bethnal Green today, followed by a visit to Museum of Childhood (http://www.museumofchildhood.org.uk/).

Nuno Mendes' Viajante provided an absolute triumph of a meal, 15 dishes over 4 hours, pretty much all afternoon was spent there. Really unusual dishes and flavours from a tasting menu where you choose the number of courses, sit back and wait for a surprise with each dish. This may well be one of the best restaurants we've visited so far.

Finally went to the permanent Pitt Cue Co, I can confirm that everything is as good as the food you can get from the trailer; I particularly enjoyed the chicken nuggets, and the pulled-pork bun. That said, I think I do prefer the simplicity of the trailer food, it's one time that I enjoy eating out of a box, I like the way everything mixes together down at the bottom.

I wanted to go to the Museum of Childhood but I don't have a kid to drag around and I didn't want to frighten the ones already there.   :grin:

Museum of Childhood sounds like it should be for adults anyway. Kids don't need to go to a museum to see it, they have it!

Maybe that's just the British name for "Children's Museum".  These are basically just places to take your kid(s) to play in a semi-Educational environment. My son got attacked twice last time we went.  Yay Tucson.

Attacked?   :ye_gods:

The Museum of Childhood is a branch of the superb Victoria & Albert museum. Basically, it's a museum of toys. Lots of cases of dolls houses from 1600 onwards, old evil scary dolls, puppets, Victorian and Edwardian toys and early 18th and 19th century clockwork toys but also everything up to present day (Harry Potter, LoTR etc), many classics from the 50s to 90s were present including many I remember from the 70s and 80s. There are also displays on childrens education, nusery and kids room furniture, sports and clothing.  Unlike most museums children are encouraged, there are play areas with toys for them to use, active displays and daily activities. Lots of kids running around having a good time. Its not stuffy at all. Its a large open building with a central area with a busy trendy cafe.

We don't have any kids, but my wife and I didn't feel unwelcome, out of place or like Pedobears. It is a great hour or two.

So, last week,

Opera Tavern (http://www.operatavern.co.uk/), being in the Salt Yard group you expect michelin quality tapas, and you get that I guess. But I couldn't help be a little disappointed that you sit down, take one look at the menu and realise this is literally Salt Yard transplanted deeper into theatre territory. And while it was very very good, I couldn't help feel it was not quite as a good as Salt Yard itself. Dishes were just slightly heavier, slightly less interesting, slightly less well presented. That said, you'd probably have a great time if not have been spoiled at the other place.

Followed this up with Great Expectations (http://www.nimaxtheatres.com/vaudeville-theatre/great_expectations) at the vaudeville. Turgid. Completely lacked the pace, wit, or adventure of Dickens and instead was played as a tiresome memory play. After half an hour or so you come to realise the only reason they did this was because they didn't want to build more than a single set. The guy playing Jaggers was ok I guess.

Next day Malabar Junction (http://www.malabarjunction.co.uk/) in Bloomsbury, describes itself as South Indian but actually serves dishes from across the sub continent. First time I've found a decent place for Dosa in London, and an interior that genuinely reminded me of restaurants in Mumbai. I think I found my new favourite Indian.

Just a note, I'll be going to Hawaii instead of London.

You should change the title of this thread.

Man, this was such an awesome troll.  I should start a thread about how I'm planning to go to Hungary, and get all the Hungarians on this board to post for months about what I should do and how great it is there, though I have no intention of going!






 :why_so_serious:

I don't think it was Yeg so much as the ball and chain.

It's ok, we've turned this thread into the 'London Foodie Thread' which I'm fine with.

On topic: the MeatMission (http://www.meatmission.com/) Roast Beef Garbage Plate is an awful lot of really tasty food for only £9.

Went to see 'The Audience' last night. Reviews are accurate, Helen Mirren is incredible, the play is a lot of fun if flawed in places.

However, the awesome part is that Sir Ian McKellan was sat right behind me.

I was just sitting there, watching a play with Gandalf.

The other way to look at it would be that you were watching a play with Magneto, which is far scarier.

Or, if you want to be really accurate, you had a highly regarded homosexual man jammed in behind you.

Speaking of Gandalf, Sir Ian McKellen is going to officiate Sir Patrick Stewart's wedding (http://entertainment.time.com/2013/03/19/sir-ian-mckellen-to-marry-sir-patrick-stewart-no-not-like-that/)

 :awesome_for_real:

Since I am planning a trip to London next year...I am posting this here to remember it.

Wow, check out the hot totty Stewart is marrying: http://sunnyozell.com/about

Engage.

This is a pretty good thread, even if I'm not going to London at this time.

I don't see the point in making a Hawaii thread.  I might once I get there.

I've got a booking at Roganic this weekend, Hedone and Clove Club over Easter, HKK (possibly best Chinese in the world right now) on the following Saturday and Kitchen Table on the Friday after. Will also be popping to see Kew Gardens after Hedone I've never been anywhere near Chiswick and Kew before so will make a nice change from the West End. It's a fair old trek from Essex though, just under 2 hours.

Please let us know how HKK is. Looks amazing but expensive.

(I basically want you to tell me to go).

Yeah, that's a pretty sick list. Would also love to hear about HKK, seems very high-concept food, but everything I read is pretty flattering.

So, reservation at The Fat Duck next week, just received an email with their 'anticipation' video to watch - supposedly full of hints about their menu, though honestly, if you can be bothered to get the reservation you know the menu - so actually just 7 minutes of 'spot the dish you're most excited about'. Still very cool though.

I've been online at 10 trying to book The Fat Duck on a Fri/Sat for weeks now, no luck. I think we'll just have to go on Tues-Thurs.

It doesn't get much easier for weekday evenings. I've never come across a reservation this tough.

The Fat Duck.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/85841906/IMG_8212.jpg)

Short review: it really is fantastic. Deserves its place in the list of restaurants people are argue about which is best in the world.

What makes it special for me was that the dishes genuinely try to operate as art as well as great food. They don’t all hit the spot perfectly but they all aim high.

Try to go as at least a foursome. Watching the reaction of friends and discussing the dishes is a big part of the experience. Also make sure you stop in at the Hind’s Head for cocktails beforehand. Heston’s grapefruit tea is a thing to behold, and they managed to make number 3 on my personal worldwide Martini ranking (behind Duke’s Hotel and Eleven Madison Park if you are interested).

Click the spoiler for the blow by blow.

Has anyone eaten at Alain Ducasse at the Dorchester? Very traditional French food but the best I've ever had - the lobster / chicken / truffle / pasta starter is probably the single nicest thing I have ever eaten.

Ealdaec - that's a fantastic write up, thanks so much. Really interested in going now, and good to hear the food itself is excellent and not just gimmicky.

Thanks for the write-up and photos. I'll have to deal with living vicariously for now!

Yes, AD @ Dorchester was  the first restaurant I wrote about (http://edesiaishungry.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/alain-ducasse-at-dorchester.html). Loved the lobster and chicken quenelles too. Probably preferred the Waterside Inn as far as comparing classical 3 stars goes though. Having said that, the newly refurbed Gordon Ramsay/Clare Smythe at Royal Hospital Road sounds exciting, looks like they really stepped it up recently to retain the 3 stars and to keep it modern. I've got this pencilled in a few months time.

Fat Duck looks amazing, glad to see snail porridge is back on the menu. What's also cool is they do a vegetarian and a vegan version of the menu.

Had a busy few weeks. Roganic (http://edesiaishungry.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/roganic.html) was excellent, really interesting dishes. The raw ox in coal oil was very unusual and really stood out, lots of rave reviews of that dish at his new restaurant The French in Manchester too.  Only a pop up and about until June, but a permanent home due soon.

Hedone (http://edesiaishungry.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/hedone.html) might well beat the Fat Duck's bread. It was astonishing. We sat at the bar overlooking the open kitchen, the pastries, amuse bouche and bread was done right in front of us. Not only did bread smell and taste awesome, the sound it made as it was being cut in front of us meant you knew how good it was going to be before it had even reached us.

The chef here is a former blogger and ingredients consultant who opened in 2011 and recieved a star in the 2013 guide, very impressive for a start up from someone not in the business. His obsession with ingredients shows in the food, simply presented and not too complicated, but outstanding taste, literally some of the finest examples of asparagus, morels, lamb and duck I've tasted. For example his pigeon comes from the same small supplier as AD's Louis XIII in Monaco, all wild, net caught and strangled so to keep the blood and no shot in the flesh. The white asparagus we had was from the south of France (somewhere beginning with L whose name i didnt note down) and the first of the season. The scallops are diver caught the night before being served. The turbot is so fresh its not yet at the rigor mortis stage, they usually have to keep it a day or so to get it right for cooking. Well worth the 2 hour journey across London we made.

Clove Club (http://edesiaishungry.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/the-clove-club.html) in Shoreditch is a very hip and difficult to get bookings place recently opened. We had a lighter lunch at last Saturday. Some nice food to be had and would like to try the full menu at some point. Buttermilk fried chicken and pine was a great dish.

Tonight we went to HKK, a fine dining Chinese concept from the Hakkasan Group. 15 courses of genius cooking; world class dim sum, a roast Peking duck so perfect it could well put some of the specialist restaurants in Beijing and Hong Kong to shame. The skin was translucent and the perfect blend of crispiness, fat and flavour. Apparently the chef went to China to get the very best method for duck, they even get the right cherry wood to roast it with. Also an awesome abalone and truffle in a beautiful abalone shell, a pork belly dish that was the best spare ribs you'll ever have. Every course was great though, even the desserts. We also had an "orchard" flight rather than a wine flight, a selection of non alcoholic fruit cocktails that came with every 2 courses, I've never enjoyed accompanying drinks so much.

Edit: Write up and pics of all 30 dishes now live (http://edesiaishungry.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/hkk.html)

It's always funny seeing people talk about the Fat Duck pubs as a (nearly-)local; it's still 'Oh yeah, that other restaurant near the Roux Bros. pub" to me (although I may be showing my age a little there) :)  Mind you, I like Heston's "food engineer in a world of artistes" thing.

Personal mini-review: The Forester's Arms in Farnham Common - very nice main courses (I think I had lightly seared scallops and tempura whitebait the last time I was there and it was wonderful...and that's from someone who likes well-cooked fish but hates it when not), but the genius is in the tapas puddings - ~£2.50 per (small) pudding and pick two or three (or more) as you fancy.

Great write up eldeac, thanks!

Very tempted by HKK. And adding a proper drinks matching makes it even more interesting.

One thing that really irritates me about fine dining is the total lack of imagination shown on the drinks service in 99% of restaurants.

Bar Boulud has a pretty awesome drinks service.

Last night, Tre Viet in Hackney.

Very relaxed Vietnamese diner, presentation is... mixed, but the food was clean, full of flavour, and good selection of interesting stuff on the menu. Reasonably priced as well, 3 small plates, 2 mains plus beer and we got out for £45.


Non-food London question. Can anyone recommend a decent cinema that hasn't been infected with 3d bullshit. I used to enjoy a trip to the bfi imax, but it has fallen to the foul demon of 3d projection.

Prince Charles Cinema? Or do you want more current stuff.

To be honest I'm mostly motivated by wanting to see current films properly projected in a room that doesn't smell of disinfectant, with an audience that does not appear to be attempting to drown out the film using synchronised sweet wrappers, and without a floor that my feet stick to.

And, obviously, without the abomination of 3d.

That said, going to try Hackney picturehouse in a couple of weeks and the not-latest-release stuff might also be interesting.

I can't think of many places that are showing current stuff that aren't like that. The Prince Charles has always been good the times I have been, and it does seem to draw a more mature audience.

Is everything at the IMAX 3D now? That's a shame if so.

Since the new screen went in, if a film can be in 3d it is.


To be fair, it isn't as bad as non-imax 3d because of the higher contrast levels, but annoying as hell nonetheless.

I can confirm that Launceston Place deserves its Michelin Star. Iberico Pork done three ways almost felt like it was pandering, but then I realised that nothing can come between me and some good Iberico.

I really can't fault them on anything, well worth a visit.

Tried the hackney picturehouse for iron man.

Features include:

2d showing.
Proper reclining comfy seats.
An actual projectionist.
Excellent cake.
Substantially reduced (though not eliminated) ambient sweet wrappers.
£7 tickets.

Was happy and will return. Would recommend the chain.

Also revisited Lardo. I thought it was great back in December, and has improved since. Standouts were the fennel salami, dandelion salad, and the locally brewed beer. Desserts were a bit mediocre.

My quest to find the best pasta full of liquid that bursts open when you bite into it continues, with the Fagotelli Carbonara at Apsleys just about edging past Hedone's Liquid Parmesan ravioli.  Some very clever pastry work too, with the dish of a raspberry liquid inside a chocolate shell inside a vanilla semifreddo inside a chocolate sphere, sheets of chocolate wafer so thin as to be translucent, chocolate mousse and chocolate sorbet tasting as good as it sounds. Last week was The Ledbury, which justified its 3 month waiting list and sterling reputation by delivering a pretty much perfect meal. The posh cheese on toast and curd and grilled onion broth dish was awesome.

Heading back to Galvin La Chapelle this weekend, gonna try their Sunday lunch, and then off to Gordon Ramsay in the week, it was refurbed in Feb and had a change of menu's, as well as making it more of a Clare Smyth and Gordon Ramsay joint venture, deservedly so I think. Considering I've been going to a load of restaurants for some time now, I'm yet to even head into one of Gordon's pubs let alone any of the fine dining places.

I'd be interested to see what you think of Ramsay's places; everything I read suggests that other than Royal Hospital Road they're all a bit uninteresting.

Restaurant Gordon Ramsay surprised me, not only because it's a tiny room with a dozen tables, but because the meal was better than I thought it would be. The lack of buzz on the food blogs and that it never appears on the top 100 lists had thrown me a bit, and I guess it's that the classic dishes and formal service are the opposite of street food or modernist 10 courses of foraged wizardry that tend to grab the glory. I had 2 fantastic courses, and the dessert, an innocuous sounding "Assiette de l'Aubergine (for two)" turned out to be a table filling selection of nearly every dessert on the menu. We shared 6 desserts, each one totally awesome and fantastic in their own right. Gordon might not work on the line any more, but he employs the best he can, Clare Smyth is a real talent (I didn't go back to meet her or see the kitchens, but heard her yelling at someone in Ramsay-esque fashion) and his front of house are as good as it comes.

http://edesiaishungry.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/restaurant-gordon-ramsay.html

Bunch more places I keep meaning to post about here, but it is Taste of London tonight so I may well forget about everywhere in the process  :drill:

Basically starving myself right now. Gluttony commences in 1 hour.

I've been to John Salt recently, and back to the Heron and Goodmans. The Goodman burger is as glorious as ever, and saved me from having to eat mediocre pub food when I happened to be stuck out at Canary Wharf recently. John Salt is really good, the food isn't the best in London, but it isn't the most expensive either. For £20-25 you can eat yourself full on a nice range of dishes. Razor clams were excellent, kimchi hollandaise ditto; the cocktails were great, the quail was so-so. Definitely worth a look.

Also, Shake Shack and Five Guys are going to be good staples of central-London convenience eating I think. Queues aside, the service at Shake Shack is really good, and very prompt. I'm really glad they're using the same Pennsylvania potato bread that they use in their East Coast locations, it really makes for a great burger bun imho.

Now I'm just getting excited for Flesh and Buns opening next week!

Since Gordon Ramsey I've had a couple of meals at Tom Aikens Restaurant. I like his style, and some real stand out dishes to be had and bloody hell the tasting menu is a real stomach filler, the closest Ive been to Mr Creosote for a long time.  We've also been back to Dinner, which was fun, although not as good as the first visit due to a nice but not outstanding main course.

We've also been to The Fat Duck which was pretty much as above, although my wife had veggie versions or  original dishes that were all spectacular in particular a beetroot risotto I rate above the salmon I had, even though it was really really great in its  own right. For me there was a lamb dish instead of pigeon, and strawberries instead of the BFG, which im slightly gutted Ive missed even though the strawberries were fab. That egg thing was crazy good though.

Long time since I've been but that was the one thing that stands out about the place beyond anywhere else I've tried in Europe.

If you have never done 3 star dining before and want somewhere you can trust to give the full experience without being in any way intimidating - this is where I'd recommend.

Other London stuff since I last posted here.


Terroirs (http://terroirswinebar.com/)

Primarily a wine bar in theatreland, but the food is no slouch. Stick to the small sharing plates, and despite the informal style, the waiters are worth talking to about wine. They managed to dig out wines that were genuinely unusual (to me at least, orange wine?) as well as great. It is possible to order badly, but the food is never boring. It's permanantly on our rotation for pre-theatre/cinema. Only critism is that not enough of the wine list is available in carafe format.


Polpo (http://www.polpo.co.uk/)

Not sure how I had failed to try polpo until a couple of months back, but holy christ this place is good. Firmly in the Italian style small plates that everyone does nuts for these days, but as well as being equal to the best I've found, it is fairly affordable, we got in an out with 3 dishes per person plus a cocktail, glass of wine, and dessert for £35pp. No booking - which is good or bad depending - but pre-theatre it is never full.


Flat Iron (http://flatironsteak.co.uk/)

Their gimmick is they only sell Butler's Steak plus sides. It's a good steak, properly cooked, and a salad for £10. That said by no means the best and you can probably do it as well yourself, but honestly for £10, tell me where else that isn't the case. Doesn't need a reservation.


Table Cafe (http://thetablecafe.com/)

South of the river.... So we're in Southwark, the only conceivable reason to be in Southwark is the Globe and the Tate, but you need to eat, right? Happily Southwark has this entirely incongruous place on the highstreet that looks like part of a typical plastic chain, but unaccountably serves great food. I don't know how long it will stay open since there is never anyone in it. Awful ambience, terrible location, but I've visited a couple times now and never been disappointed. Also, they serve Meantime beer brewed locally and worth a  particular mention.


Elliot's Cafe (http://www.elliotscafe.com/)

Borough Market has never had somewhere to eat I've been entirely happy with - but Elliots might qualify. Small sharing plates once again though with a more British feel than usual. No compliants at all about the food, inventive, fresh, interesting - OTOH service was slow, and I get that small plates come whenever, but all the protein followed by 20 minute gap then all the veg isn't cool, that said hey they gave us a free dessert. Burger bar they run out front is worth particular mention.

Benares (http://www.benaresrestaurant.com/)

More authentic and flat out better than Cinnamon Club, probably the best Indian meal I've had. The Meen Moillee (Stone Bass in Curry Leaf sauce) stood out in particular, I've never come across anyone able to squeeze so much flavour out of the spice in every dish without ever threatening to overheat anything. But, starter, main, bread, glass of wine and a masala chai (better than anything I've ever drank in Mumbai) was £75pp, and honestly even for the best Indian meal of my life, it was overpriced.

Harwood Arms (http://www.harwoodarms.com/)

This place has been through 2 head chefs since I last visited in 2011. It's still great. I love the understated 'proper pub' look of this place, not a painted-on blackboard in sight, and absolutely no 'witty' aphorisms scrawled on the wall. The food is a notch above anything we have in east london gastropubs - so its a shame I have to schelp all the way to Fulham for it. Standouts we ordered were the venison scotch egg (legendary), dandelion & pigeon salad, (both fresh and substantial), and homemade blackcurrant ice cream. Bread was also something special. We were in on the glorious 12th, which added an element of theatre as the staff would breathlessly remind us of the grouse that would be delivered 'at any moment' - we stuck to the regular menu.



Away from the dining room:

Prom 34 - Nigel Kennedy & the Palestine Strings - Vivaldi's four seasons (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDXBnS8mZ0E)

If you are around London and haven't ever been to a prom it's something you should try. Concerts cost £5 if you just show up on the day at the Royal Albert Hall, and you are generally hearing the best classical performers there are. I know nothing about classical music but still manage to enjoy a couple of visits each year (I also have last night tickets this year, which I'm p smug about)

Anyway - this particular show was pretty damn remarkable. Nigel Kennedy plus a group of young Palestinians playing through Vivaldi's concertos interspersed with Arabic music and jazz, which sounds utterly ridiculous but Kennedy's genius is in somehow making it seamless. It's being shown on BBC Four on Friday 23rd. You can't go see it live again, but if you have any interest in any kind of music I'd recommend recording it.

Private Lives (http://privateliveswestend.com/)

Noel Coward's Private Lives turns up in London practically every year, what makes this production worthwhile is taking guilty pleasure in the sheer violence and self indulgence of the leads. For better or worse it lacks the rhythm of dialog that most 1930s plays spend so much energy on, but makes up with it pure chemistry.

Fences (http://www.nimaxtheatres.com/duchess-theatre/fences)

Lenny Henry does Tennessee Williams. Turns out Henry can act, but chooses not to in the first half, instead he plays for laughs too often, the second half makes up for it though - the whole cast is excellent through the whole family breakdown arc.

A Chorus Line (http://www.achoruslinelondon.com/)

Holy crap this is bad. I was dragged to this, don't make the same mistake unless you enjoy watching people attempt terrible american accents and dance the same goddamn number for 2 hours. The show has no story as far as I tell, some people introduce themselves, tell us (not show us) how terribly hard life is in the theatre, then 8 of them get picked, after which they unaccountably all take part in the final number that the 8 were picked for.

So, I meant to post this the other day but I forgot.

Comment on Marina O'Loughlin's review of The Dairy in Clapham. Lady went there and left without paying because the service was so terrible, by her standards. (http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/sep/07/restaurant-dairy-london#comment-26769693)

In essence, a lady suffers the indignity of crossing south of the river and then has to suffer waiters who won't supervise her child while she and her friends go for a fag, and then have the bare-faced cheek to refuse to serve her brandy while she breastfeeds her child! You'd think this was a joke post, but the restaurant confirmed that this did happen via twitter.

Some of the subsequent comments make for fun reading; I mean, who do these people think they are!

I had a great meal at Arbutus in Soho when I was in London this summer. Very austere but excellent. Also a great time at Randall & Aubin.

Oh, it's me  :why_so_serious: