f13.net

New trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5EjG-1U3wqA) is here.  I am sold, that looks pretty fucking badass.    :drill:

Fuck Yeah!! Mandarin!!!!!  :drill:

Yeah! ... but Ben Kingsley?

Umm....wot?

So is this going to be a non-magic mandarin, more of the osama terrorist leader type?

Well, it's possible for them to bring in magical elements since a framework of sorts has been established (the whole Norse God aspect) of things.  But frankly, I rather like the idea of a terrorist-only based enemy because that seems to work better with the Ironman setup.  IMO.  I could be wrong.

And I can't wait for April now. 

Scary Iron Man In The Bed Was Scary.

Someone needs to make an ironman "you gonna get raeped" meme

Leave the magic as a backup.  A guy with lots of power that uses mundane means to take down someone like Iron Man is a lot more scary.  Also it leaves some nice trump cards.

Edit:  No, no they don't.

Please be better than Iron Man 2.

Mandarin was always high on technology. The rings weren't technically magic either. They are of alien origin.

New Iron Man 3 trailer. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke1Y3P9D0Bc)

Man, that just looks soo good.


Oh and wtf, is that a Captain America tattoo on the Mandarin's neck?

Indeed, but with an "anarchy" like A instead of the star.

That's the outcome I've been waiting for since this whole thing started up. Not just a Iron Man, but an army of Iron Men.

So apparently they liked The Dark Knight. Like, a lot.

Or rather, just cut their trailer to seem a like it. Got some major Joker vibes in Mandarin.

Fuck. Yes.

Well, Mandarin shares a lot of the "BURN THE WORLD" sensibility that joker does. But that's about it, even from that trailer.

Really? I'm not even picking up that much. Basically he's coming off more as a highly motivated political villain--an uber-terrorist. Which would retain one part of the character's long-term schtick (aggrandizement of his own power) while dropping the really ridiculous Fu-Manchuism.

Kingsley's accent, though, I can't decide from the trailer whether I think it's awesome or silly.

Alright, that looks awesome.

For another joker comparison, everyone made fun of his voice in the trailers. It could be silly but it may just need to be listened to in real movie time, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt since there are enough good people behind this movie.

Keep in mind my comment was more geared to your read on him than to Joker. I see no real similarity between them. They both want to fuck shit up, but for very different ends.

Seriously, no-one's seen it yet ?

They're tying in the Avengers on this one. One newspaper article mentioned Downey insisted that 'Tony going into another dimension - seeing a bunch of shit - barely making it out should've affected him deeply'

 :grin:

In the U.S. we still have another week until it releases.

Oh.  Right.

I'll end up seeing this before you ?  How often does that Not happen.

Avengers was two weeks early for you guys if I remember right, and I think you get Thor 2 early as well. Guess all the Marvel movies will be like that maybe?

Odd, but fair enough.  I'll be hitting this on Sunday, I suspect, so I'll throw thoughts down afterwards.  Thoughts which will probably be 'Great Film, when will Paltrow stop pretending she can act ?'

I wasn't aware she was even bothering to pretend.

Watched it this morning - our group of 4 loved it, felt a lot more like the first film than the second. My inner geek went squee at one point, usually a good sign.

Also try and stay until the very end of the credits for obligatory hidden scene.

Edit:

Thought Ben Kingsley did a great job, almost stealing the limelight from Downey.

I just looked at IMBD for the release dates, and Poland is literally the last country on the list, with a May 9th date.   :oh_i_see: :oh_i_see: :oh_i_see:

They forgot Poland.

It just beat The Avengers opening overseas. $198.4 Million.  Almost twice the opening of IM2 overseas.  It's big Jerry!  Big!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/iron-man-3-opens-massive-448006 (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/iron-man-3-opens-massive-448006)

I think it's safe to say some of its success is due to riding the coattails of The Avengers, but still this is huge.

Nothing new. Nothing new.

Just like Iron Man surprise-fuckstarted the Marvel Movie Universe and proved that something honestly and truly worthwhile could be made of these characters and keep it going in a (mostly) light-hearted, humourous fashion, so too has Iron Man Three knocked it out the park to start off Phase 2. Shane Black, you are a fucking badass. The character arcs are brilliantly devastating, the character building of faces new to the franchise is deliciously deep and fans will be speculating for ages how things will pan out from this point. Loved it. Easily rivalling the first IM and Avengers. No spoliers from me; just go and see it.

Saw this myself a couple of hours ago. Liked it, but liked the first one more.

Heard a weird-ass twist on NPR today.  The Chinese version has a character that gets all of 5 seconds of screen time in the US as a central story character who eventually saves Tony's life.

Now I want to see the Chinese version.

Apparently in the Chinese version Stark goes to China for an operation because he thinks they'll do a high-tech surgery on him far better than anywhere in the US or EU.

Also there's a lot of weird product placement in the Chinese version, apparently.

Chinese audiences are reportedly not amused because it's so crudely pandering.

Just saw it full IMAX 3D.  Helps the movie, but not absolutely so.  It's definitely not a "made for 3d" movie; which is a good thing.  I also thought it was definitely as good as IM1.  But as good as Avengers?  Nah. 

I just got back from seeing this, loved it. The action was good, and the movie was really funny; RDJ delivers as always.

The interesting thing there is that they don't do any sort of direct set-up for the rest of Phase 2. The events of Avengers get referenced a lot in regards to some anxiety issues Stark is having, but aside from that IM3 is the polar opposite from IM2 in regards to how much focus is put on the greater Marvel Universe. Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D are completely absent here, there's no Black Widow, no hints of Thanos. Even the post-credits scene doesn't lead into the next movie and is simply there for humor. It's good that after all the universe building they've been doing in these movies that now they can pull away from that a bit and just focus on the individual characters.

Loved Iron Man 3.  I think it's probably my favorite of the 3 actually.  Even with the way some of the canon was messed around with it still worked.

I think it's good they gave this Iron Man the stand alone treatment and I think it may be because RDJ isn't signed on for any more movies past Avengers 2.  As for stuff leading into Avengers 2 I think that's going to be started in Thor and expanded in Guardians of the Galaxy.  I think Cap 2 is going to be in the same standalone set up as Iron Man 3 but all the SHIELD stuff added in.

There's been some questioning around RDJ sticking with the Iron Man role passed these three films. I'm not sure what he's signed on for around Avengers either.

Saw it and think it is definitely one of the stronger Marvel films. Certainly much better than "IM2" since it isn't weighed down by trying to set up another movie franchise.

You can see the Shane Black-isms all through it too, in the banter between Stark and Rhodes and in the chats with the henchmen.

The post- credits sequence is also one of the funnier parts of the film imo (and it is way, way at the end, so you might be able to make it to the toilet and back if you need to  :grin:).

Joss Whedon has said a couple times that RDJ is coming back for Avengers 2, although I don't think a contract has been hammered out yet.  There is also no Iron Man 4 on the upcoming Marvel schedule and that goes a few years out.

Some stuff I saw about Mandarin...

Maybe there shouldn't be an Iron Man 4.  Let's end with a very good trilogy.

Yes, both Marvel and Hollywood are known for their restraint.  :awesome_for_real:

Well they are already on record as stating that they will replace actors James Bond style.  Although replacing RDJ is gonna be pretty hard.

This film was fantastic, even if many bits were telegraphed. It's a comic book movie so it gets a pass.  Enjoyable as all get-out and well worth it.

Gwenneth, however, needs fewer close-ups. She's really starting to show her age and those didn't help.

Her scenes near the end are near-classics imo.  And really, she's what you want in a beautiful "normal" girl.  Anything more and it'd be too distracting.

Neither she nor RDJ are really supposed to be young heart throbs anymore so I thought she was fine.  If they had put her with a much younger leading man it would seem awkward perhaps but I'm sure if they do iron man again they'll cast a new pepper as well.

Loved it.  Saw it in Imax 3d, and though I don't normally care for 3d, they did a really good job of it in this flick.  Probably my favorite of the three.

I thought they clearly made a nod to the possible replacement of RDJ with the "Tony Stark will return" thing in the end credits, which is a direct riff on Bond credits.

Very good, if not quite great movie. Way better than IM 2. The big twist is really clever and relieved a lot of the dread I was feeling about where it was all going.

If they're going to change actors they ought to just do a reboot; it'd be pretty weird seeing someone other than RDJ playing Stark in this universe.

This movie was a whole lotta meh for me.  Even more than for IM2, I was wondering why this one was made.  Insert disposable new villains, wrap up new villains, Tony Stark says something insensitive and funny, have about 10% of the movie involve actually being in the armor and doing things, waste a large portion of that 10% on a single midair rescue scene.

I don't think the way Marvel is doing their movies they can do reboots.  I would also prefer they didn't actually, there is no real reason they should.

Well, that hinges on them wanting to continue their big story beyond Avengers 2.

I think Rocket Raccoon and the Guardians of the Galaxy will take quite a bit of wind out of Marvel's sails.

I don't think it will be a huge blockbuster, but I think it'll make it's money back.  Especially since it is probably have the biggest tie-in with Thanos to Avengers 2.

Eh, a bad idea executed well is better than a good idea executed poorly. Marvel is firing on all cylinders currently. Guardians will be fine. 

Saw it, loved it. Summer action film done very very well.

They did it with Spiderrman after three movies.

That wasn't Marvel, that was Sony.  They have the rights to Spiderman locked down, as does 20th Century Fox and the X-men.  That's why you see retardation like that with both those properties.

I saw it and enjoyed it. There are some parts that were not as good but in general it was great. When I saw it with a good friend I leaned over and said "Guy Pearce needs to be in more movies." I don't know what happened to him. He started out and was kind of a boring, handsome actor. Then he sort of disappeared off of my radar and then over the last two years he's come back and had some really great performances. Hell, his TED viral video for Prometheus was the best thing involved with that movie, including the movie.

There was only one character moment I really, really disliked.

Oh, that's right.  I forgot about that.  I'm still skeptical though.  I don't necessarily think that a reboot is in the works any time soon, but it looks like Marvel has a lot on its plate for phase 2 and 3.  At least we know RDJ will be in Avengers 2.

Not gonna nitpick every point here but what, should they have brought back jeff bridges or fucking whiplash? There has only been two movies and the villains weren't exactly so epic caliber that they needed a retread.

I saw it and loved it, but it is REALLY both a summer action flick and a comic book movie. The entire villainous plan is really over-complicated for what he states he wants, but it's kind of window dressing anyway. It's just there as an excuse to set up big fight scenes. Do NOT think too hard about it or it will fall apart.

I was generally amused but didn't have the OMG AWESOME vibe of some of the recent Marvel flicks (dunno what some people above were griping about re: X-men as First Class was one of the best movies I've seen in the last 5 years or so).

Black has sort of a detached irony about his writing/directing which is amusing but somewhat arch.

Hate nesting spoilers but since it's a brand new movie...

 

Ok, I'm back.

This film wasn't good.

I don't think so. The reason I think they went for the twist is...

Two bad things I'll say about Marvel's films since Iron Man, including this one.

1) The scores are totally unmemorable. I can't think of any music from any of them even after I listen to them.

2) The action sequences with the exception of Avengers are pretty unmemorable. I can barely remember anything cool or amazing in terms of action choreography after I've seen one of these films.  When I think of IM 1, I can remember a few things (throwing the missile back at the tank). IM 2 I can't remember a damn thing from. Thor I can sort of remember him fighting the ice giants but nothing really concrete. Captain America weirdly the scene I can remember best is the USO number, which is genuinely funny. In this film the attack on Stark's house is fairly good, but in almost all the Marvel films there's something almost too choreographed about the action--it's overthought and underimagined all at once.

The characters are memorable, there are non-action set-pieces that are often pretty good (Stark in the snow dragging his suit in this film), and there's usually some good dialog. (Though RDJ's quips are so improvised in feeling and delivered with so much snark that a lot of them are pretty difficult to recall.)

In most cases the problem I have with marvel film action is that it totally disconnects from the characters and story and feels like an overlong sequence of 'robots hitting each other with a DVD commentary track for smart remarks from the protagonist'. I probably blame CGI and lack of actor involvement. Iron man in the CGI suit never convinces me RDJ as Tony Stark is inside.

Even Cap and Thor don't really convince me they are the same character that does the talky bits.

This was never a problem for Indiana Jones et al.


This is all before seeing IM3 mind you, and it doesn't generally stop me enjoying the first 90 minutes of marvel films.

Just watched it. Good not great.  Not enough Iron Man.  Also, his Mk IV took on Thor but the Mk 42 seems made of tissue paper.

I enjoyed it; it's not quite as 'switch your brain off' as the last few Marvel movies.

That's a great point. I came out feeling that way but the whole "mechanic" thing makes much sense in retrospect.

I loved this one, may more than IM2 and almost on par with IM1. While IM1 had some pacing issues, it still holds up very well.

I don't agree with Khaldun about the action being unmemorable though. I thought they played really well turning Tony Stark the iron suit symbiotic into Tony Stark the tools builder. And the final sequence* played very well as a pretty neat fight.

You're overthinking it. I think there is zero chance that your reading will turn out to be correct.

The rings were shown in the first Iron Man.  Has nothing to do with Avengers.

Potts:

Yea that was pretty telegraphed. Still, it was entertaining after.

I agree. This isn't some Elementary/Holmes master conspiracy they set up. That'd be far too cerebral for this series. There's too much time that happens between these movies for there to be deep persistent threads that span all of them, except for whatever background thing only the comic book fans would even pick up on.

I think this was pretty much the point of the movie. Iron man is not awesome it is just a suit of armor. Tony stark is awesome with his armor or without it he is a genius who half drunk just trying to get his beak wet nearly fixed somebodies life work without half trying. I think this was the story that had to happen to make tony realize it that suit or no suit he can do what he needs to do even if gods and aliens are running around.

The only part of the movie that kinda annoyed me a little bit was the massive armor fight at the end. Why are these suits all with a fair amount of weaponry closing in to hand fighting range with the extremis solders. Answer is if they actually used their range the fight would have been over in 2 minutes and none of the suits would have been heavily damaged.

I could have done without the 3D. There, I said it.

Tony's remote control over the suits didn't get annoying (i.e. is he in the suit this time or not?) before the movie ended. I thought they used it just enough.

I loved the kid.

This movie brought home the fact that I didn't actually read so much Iron Man as a youth, or for that matter any recent Iron Man comics, so that people like Killian Aldridge Aldridge Killian and Maya Reminds-Me-Of-Jessica-Biel are unfamiliar to me. So to me, this was the movie's biggest "flaw", i.e. the fact that the villains were almost completely anonymous.

Funny story: AIM, in the classic Marvel universe, invented the Cosmic Cube, aka the Tesseract.

I actually liked Gwyneth Paltrow as Pepper this time around. She seemed like she was acting, instead of "acting". She gave really weird performances in the first two movies, and I wonder if the change in director had anything to do with it.

I also liked the end tag.

Overall, thumbs up. Would watch again. But not in 3D.

The 3D like 99% of 3D movies was completely unremarkable and forgettable 2 minutes into the movie. Not once during this movie did I say 'wow that was a cool 3D effect'. In fact I wouldn't have even bothered to see it in 3D if it weren't for the couple of 12 year olds I had to take with me (who, mind you, morphed into 11 year olds at the ticket counter).

Does anyone here actually believe that 3D adds to the movie going experience and is something more than just a ploy to get us to spend more on movie tickets?

The ONLY and I do mean ONLY movie I've thought did 3d well was avatar.  Watching Avatar on a 2d screen vs 3d feels totally different, imo. Cameron used it beautifully for the depth of field and floating holo displays of the log reports.   TRON attempted and failed, IMO because it got in the way and felt gimmicky.

I used to think Alice did it well but then I rewatched and saw I was wrong.  Everything else I've seen in 3d just felt schlocky and gimmicky and I don't pay for 3d anymore because of it. 

A > IM > CA > IM3 > T = IM2

Spiderman reboot used the effect well imo.  But for me I mainly see it 3d because I have no choice.  My main theatre is a museum IMAX and I'll watch whatever they show me to sit in front of an 8-story bigscreen.  3d or not, you should never compromise screen size. 

I'd rank it differently: IM > IM3 > A > T/IM2 > CA. Captain America was a pretty rubbish movie in my view; I can't really remember any of it other than thinking that super-nazis with laser cannons was almost insultingly stupid as a plot.

For the record I saw this in 2D and cannot think how 3D would have improved it in any way. Aside from Avatar which was properly conceived in 3D, and made good use of the effect I can't think of a single film where the 3D has been worth it.

The croods was good in 3d. 

Just because you have a shitty memory...

Captain America was a much better movie than this shit.

Also, didn't they breathe fire in Extremis ?  I was sure they had.

I just read about a cool Easter egg I missed in IM3.

And you missed that ??!

Just back from seeing it. I think Ironwood and I saw something different from everyone else here. Just not that good, rent it.

No, my memory is just fine. There's just nothing especially awesome or memorable about that film. It also grossed the second lowest of all the first wave marvel movies, only doing better than the last Hulk movie which was utter crap, so apparently I wasn't the only one who found it mediocre.

edit: I was wrong to put Thor and Iron Man 2 on par though, Thor is a better film, mainly because of some great casting. The only thing redeeming Iron Man 2 is RDJ as Tony Stark. There is nothing to redeem Captain America in this list. The best you can say is that it's not as bad as Ed Norton's Hulk.

I literally fell asleep during the last half of Captain America, that's how meh I thought it was.  First half was good, then once it got to nazis with lasers ZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Just saw this. Disorganised thoughts:

More genuine laughs than I've had in the cinema for a while.
They got through a lot of genuinely daft shit by going fast.
GF announced it was the best marvel film so far. I'm not sure I agree, but can see how someone who doesn't give a crap about the series and remembers very little about it would think that.
The IM series needs to die after this. Not because of the epilogue, but because the last action set piece kind of makes the whole IM concept obsolete.
Saw it in 2D, this film once again confirms that 2 is the correct numbers of Ds.


Oh, and Thor was far better than IM2. Stop having bad opinions tia.

You know I've been thinking about iron man the superhero and it's kind of the tanks vs mechs argument isn't it?  If you have that level of technology why the FUCK would you ever put yourself inside of it to fly around like a spaceman?

Its amazing the range of opinions these Marvel movies have vs. every single poster on this board.  Haven't seen IM3 yet, but sounds good.

Thor was enjoyable, but the worst Marvel movie put out in this entire cycle.  Including the second Hulk film.  Captain America was great.  Fight!

I agree!  Thor's middle act was absolutely abysmal. It dragged down the great Spacespeare stuff.

I don't think autonomous AI was part of the original concept in the comics; the suit needed a "wearer" because it was a relatively simple tool.  In the movie universe, I tend to agree, drone better.

Stark thinks its fun mostly.  :why_so_serious:

It's kind of funny that they played with the concept of Stark not having to be in the suit for the Air Force One scene, but then he goes through suits in the big set piece ending.

I really enjoyed it while I was watching it, but it didn't take long for me to realize just how silly the plot really was. It was very very 4-color - if it wasn't for the fact that it's a comic book movie, the plot would have been incredibly braindead.

No.  I don't accept that excuse.

His faceplate flew 850 miles.

This film was fuck stupid.

Avatar and the Hobbit were amazing in 3D.  Not so much in IM3, though there were a few standout 3D scenes like the missile attack.  Or maybe I'm getting used to 3D?  Maybe it becomes more natural to you during the film.  

I was going to drive 100 miles round trip to see this in 3D.  I got on the road, said this is crazy and called my local theater.  They now have 3D!  A winnar is me!  Still can't believe my small-ass hometown (pop 13k) has a really good theater.  I buy their $4 rasinets to support them, even though you could hold them all in one hand.

Where was I?  Oh yeah, IM>A>IM3>T>CA>IM2>H

This is not in dispute.

It was decently entertaining. Definitely better than CA (which was dull as shit for 75% of it) and infinitely better than Thor (which I saw after being let out of jury duty early and decided I would have rather stayed in court). I enjoy the Tony Stark as problem solver/mechanic/tinker element a lot more than the big action sequences. The one at the end was entirely too long, convoluted, and silly.

IM>A>IM3>IM2>CA>T

On another tangent:

He went over it really fast. :

It was to create demand.

Exactly.

To be honest, that was one of the things I liked about this movie. It didn't directly bludgeon the story beats over what they thought was a completely obtuse audience. Yea sure it wasn't any real complex story. But unlike every other goddamn movie since the mid-2000s, it not only didn't give away the entire thing in the trailers, it also didn't literally telegraph every little thing for an audience assumed to be too drunk, high or young to follow it.

It wasn't any one big thing really. The Mandarin bit was probably the biggest, but the suit/bus scene, the Pepper stuff, the autonomous self-flying pieces (the ones Ironwood hated but which I liked), RDJ being more The Mechanic than singular Iron Man, even the post-credits bit, all of it was kinda twisty but not too twisty to take itself seriously. Kinda gag-y in a way, pretty Whedon-esque really. I wonder if that's why he got the thank you in the credits.

Ya kinda need to find fault with it. Not the perfect movie. But if you haven't already turned your brain off for Marvel movies, and movies that launch after April in general, then there's no help for you  :grin:

It wasn't a complex story, but the plan itself was INCREDIBLY over complex - there were a lot easier ways to accomplish the same goal without turning yourself into a fire-breathing nutjob. But then, this is AIM, who always specialized in creating shit that would bite them in the ass for no good reason other than SCIENCE!

MAGNETS! HOW DO THEY WORK!!!!!  :why_so_serious:

If IM2 is getting this much hate, I'm going to recommend you just skip Star Trek altogether.  I have less faith in that putting together a compelling and complete story.

Two phone calls would have made this movie like 40 minutes quicker.

Explains a whole bunch of the plot really.

As for the faceplate and other bits flying over 850 miles? Really? You have a problem with that vs a metal suit powered by a multi-megawatt generating nuclear reactor the size of a baseball located in the chest area of a human being?

Anyways,  my personal theory is that the individual bits did not fly 850 miles. The individual bits flew out of the barn, reassembled and configured  into a supersonic form that flew the 850 miles, slowed down, split apart again and arrived to assemble on Tony Stark. That the bits arrived spaced out at different times, I put down to it being quirky (and not 100% repaired.)

I think some of the parts arrived before generic-cute-child let the final parts out of the barn.

MIND CONTROLLED MAGNETS WITH NO MAXIMUM RANGE !  FOR SCIENCE !

Seriously, I'd rather watch a film where Tony burns Aims house down with the lemons.   None of this shit made any sense and was just an excuse (as the other films were) to show RDJ getting in and out of a suit in cool ways.

Fucking clownshoes.

So wait, after TWO FULL MOVIES, you chose NOW to clue into the fact that Tony has been sitting on a magic sourece of propulsion that only requires the suit have a functioning battery charge?   The entire thing flying at all revolves completely around the "comic book magic" tech of the Repulsors.  The fact that they took it to its logical conclusion and just put repulsor thrustors all over the individual suit parts is pretty low on my list of "hey, that breaks my suspention of disbelief" things in the Marvel Movie universe.

Yeah, but he totally charged that halfway through with a car battery, so it's ok.

NO.  I'M NOT OKAY WITH IT.  The whole film was stupid from start to finish and ruined any suspension of disbelief that you may have built up over the previous Iron Man movies.  I can be OK with a chest generator.  It's fine.  It's a self contained utter nonsense that was got out of the way quickly in the first film because of Stark being a genius IN A CAVE.  If you swallow it, it's just fine.  But there was absolutely no explanation EVER in the film for the new suit.  Sure, he injected himself with some shit at the start and he could control the suit.  Fair enough.  Magnets ?  I don't know.  He was shown as controlling the suit with a headset.  Teleoperation, fair enough.  

Then he's tied to a bed wearing fuck all 850 miles from the suit and it all works just like in his office.  Get the Fuck Outta Here.  Really, really, really fucking stupid.  Also, this suit breaks by the lightest touch when he's not in it, which suggests it's his human body that keeps it together.  What the fuck is that all about ?

Honestly, I didn't wanna do this, since I've ranted enough about this IRL, but this took all goodwill the previous movies had made for Iron Man, which was a lot, and just tossed it down the shitter so we could put some Product Placement and RDJ being smug all over the shop.  The story was an amalgamation of shit that may have made sense if you're braindead, but even then was utterly retarded.

I'm sorry, I apologise you all and I'm going to stop now, but I really hated this movie.  The more I think on it, the more I hated it.  The only bit that I liked was evil McEvil woman being shot.  And only because I hate women and want to see them hurt.  Or something.

Sigh.

Well, I disagree with you.  As previously discussed.

I can't wait for Hollow Bones Technology.  Because that's not Ultra Retarded too.  The movies have done a good job of trying to rein in the comic book nonsense, but here they just wallowed in it.

I am fairly certain that he tells Jarvis that the stuff he was injecting were some kind of microdermal transmitter.  Sort of like the guide dots they use when filming humans for Mo-Cap stuff in games.  Only I imagine signifigantly more advanced.  They were likely what the system was supposed to use to key off his body movements for command gestures and such.

Didn't work for me.

It was just Deus Ex Machina writ large.  Sorry.

No, the Dots I get and read a pre-review where they mention it was something from the comics.  They make sense even if they're RFID bits so the pieces know where to latch-on.  Sensible in all facets.

The suit pieces having no range, each piece being able to fly 850 miles (Because his hand and leg got there early, so figure that one out when there were no holes in the barn door) and breaking apart are all big holes. 

I agree with IS on the breaking apart thing.  It bothered me the most because he survives falls that should paste him inside the suit several times, but somehow a semi-truck traveling at 55 can reduce it to bits.

He already miniaturized a nuclear reactor to fist size in the first movie, then kept improving it. A few years later, having a lesser version that fits somewhere inside the faceplate and has just enough output for powered flight of that small piece is within the normal range of technological advancement for comic book super geniuses.

As for the dots, I saw them as version 2.0 of what he used at the end of Avengers. Adding a small cell phone transciever for sending GPS coordinates long range would seem quite possible even with real world tech, if you don't have to put in a power source.

And that's the one that really bugged me: The whole "charging the suit" business. If you have the world's most advanced power source on your chest, why would you need external assistance to charge the suit at all? Climb in and it should be done.

I liked the point they made about Tony being awesome outside the suit as well, but they should have found another way for that. Especially since if his new suit was broken, he could just have called up one of the many spares. The viewers didn't know about them at that point, but the character would have.

Wait, are we just now figuring out that comic book super science is an excuse for magic?  :oh_i_see:

No, we're saying that the magic must have an internal consistency with its pre-established ruleset.   Otherwise you don't have a story you have a 4-year-olds ramblings.

In for a penny, in for a pound.  I'm not saying it wasn't dumb to have pieces fly 850 miles, it was and I myself said so at work but then I realized this was right after a scene Of a dude breathing fire and I realized a wizard did it.

Wait, I'm a horrible tit, but they did explain this :  They couldn't get into The Vault until all the concrete was cleared....

Ok, it's a shit excuse, but it WAS there.

So Much This.

Thor was great for that because stupid Gods became Techy Aliens.  Captain America only asked you to swallow Techy Alien Cube and Super Soldier formula.  Iron Man previously, only asked that he had a nice wee fusion reactor between his tits and he made a wee suit in a briefcase.

Avengers just packaged all that shit up and further asked you to believe that aliens were real.

But this just said 'Hey What if Tony Could Do This, Wouldn't That Be Cool?'  and maybe it was.  But it wasn't a good flick.  This isn't Pacific Rim.  I can't turn my mind off that much because the previous films didn't really demand it of me.

I can accept all that but if this is too much the infinity McGuffin is really gonna shit up the marvel universe.

To me, all this extremis stuff was intentional to pull reality a bit further away from the universe and make way for things like mutants or even a Dr Strange movie.  So I guess I'm just willing to take the leap from the previous world building in favor of a comic book reality.

The power source thing annoyed me more than the 850 mile thing, but internal consistency had already collapsed for me and I was in 'what the hell' mode.

It won't stand a rewatch, but was more fun than avengers on the first viewing.

Within a few weeks, people will be talking about this film the same way they talk about DKR.

Holy Shit, some of you guys mean to tell me that the concept of Iron Man technology is just fucking unrealistic? I can't believe I've been fooled for so long into enjoying a lifetime of Iron Man comic books and recent movies.

I tell you I am completely shattered. Make believe is ruined for ever because it isn't real enough...

I'm with Pennilenko. The amount of rage over the entire gray area of suspended disbelief is itself unbelievable :-)

Autonomous individual pieces of armor than can self-assembled and fly hundreds of miles? Your Tony Stark, billionaire genius inventor who can hack into anything including super sekret guvmint black-level stuff. You don't have a personal satellite or twelve tuned to the sensors you just hyposprayed into your arm to pinpoint your location to within a few inches? I actually found those pieces fit well with how he evolved the tech. And that they can all fall apart at a light impact I figured was just some failsafe.

If you're gonna nerdrage on something, why doesn't he have a fucking cellphone in his ear so Rhody can come pick him up? Or why does he let his pad and girlfriend get beat all to shit when he's got a dozen non-paper-mache autonomous robots kicking around the sub-basement? And why does he build a bunch of pawn-shop tech to solo invade the mansion of a world-feared terrorist and not have a full backup arsenal with him, or some actual military types? Or why is Rhody such a completely useless tool in a suit that since it's government owned should have been bigger than the goddamned thing from the first movie?

There are legitimate story beats here that don't survive any real scrutiny. Complaining about the pretend use of entirely unbelievable technology that requires handwaving just to explain it to the sfx guys seems kinda silly.

tl;dr: the only thing that made sense was the tech :-)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_h9d_F7aaQg0/S06xiJaLraI/AAAAAAAAA-Q/JW2YYjJwFvg/s640/abg.jpg)

Truth.
This applies to EVERY SINGLE FANTASY MOVIE out there from Metropolis to the present.
Whether be it magic or Stark tech.

Why did JARVIS die ?

Edit: deleted a quote as I'm losing track of who thinks what and who is violently agreeing with whom.

Good fantasy stories have stuff that is internally consistent and makes sense as a story all the damn time.

Just take a look at the countless pages discussing lotr or asoiaf on this very forum.

I enjoyed this film, mostly because it made me laugh. But to argue that the flaws are irrelevant because it is 'only' an action fantasy film is daft.

As an entry in the marvel canon, viewed a year or more on it is going to seem like a silly film, especially if tony stark ever gets back into an iron man suit.

Given that reports say RDJ is interested in avengers 2 & 3 but not IM4, I get the feeling Black was given licence to burn up the IM concept, and took the brief to its illogical conclusion. For all the talk of this being such a standalone film, it actually changes the avengers universe far more than IM2, and more than I expect CA2 or Thor2 will.

The movie failed to suspend disbelief or maintain consistency even within this movie, let alone the other recent iron man appearances.  There is no tension and too much terrible background music.  RDJ has a clever turn of phrase, explosions, roll credits.     



This movie was bad, even for a comic book adventure film.

Just came back from seeing it again; it still stands up. There's plenty of telegraphing, loads of exposition and it simply doesn't go out of its way to break its own rules. Skirt around them a little, yes. But it almost always comes up with a justifiable excuse. I swear to god the movie comprehension on this board is fucking strange. Stark can't call up the legion because with Jarvis out of comission, he's locked out of his own tech - a nice demonstration that he hasn't thought everything through, which is broadened by Harly telling him he should make a stealth suit - Stark simply hadn't thought of it. Call it hubris, call it PTSD. He's having to repower the suit via conventional electrical outputs in a suburban home - like charging an electric car, that shit's not happening in 5 minutes, and he doesn't exactly have access to nuclear fission in a garage with a lack of the right fucking sort of scraps he's not likely to make a miniaturized one (again) in the meantime (and would we want a rehash of that anyway?). As for the Mk 42 flying into pieces all the time, I'd say that was a fundamental design feature, and it only occured with the 42.

Also, the thing IS the Mark fucking FOURTY TWO.

Even Pepper makes some kind of comment in the scene where he greets her after work with the suit where she thinks it is the mark 8 or 12 or something.

That just leaves plenty to our imagination about just how much "downtime" Tony has had to manage and the sheer amount of techno churn he has probably put into his suit development.   I mean christ, even with the, what, 4 suits we have seen him actually build over the first 2 movies there was DRASTIC increase in performance and functionality.  Just imagine the kind of shit he has had time to play around with working through 38 odd newer mark models.  The fact that the Mark 42 is capable of crazy shit should be about baseline at that point.

Guy Pearce realised he hated where his Hollywood career was going when he was doing most of his acting stoned, so he dropped out, did indie films and small roles for a while (he even headed a short Australian TV movie series about the Jack Irish detective character) and apparently only picks the roles that interest him. He recently did another action film called "Lockout" - prison rescue in SPAAAACCCCEEEE! - and was apparently the best thing in "Lawless" (and looks super creepy with no eyebrows).

It could be the mk 300 for all the difference it makes.  The scene was bad.  Why does he need the number on the side?  Stark does not give a damn about the other models, why should we?  Only one of the others seems to be substantially different in any case, and they are as durable as a wet paper bag.  His callous disregard for public safety and the future of suit tech during the 'fireworks' scene was particularly wretched.  The entire suit fight scene was poorly done and ultimately irrelevant.  If the suits really do not matter, why bother?  You did not need as many moving figures on camera.  It took away any tension.  It was like watching that vile space fight scene at the start of new star wars when they rescue the emperor.  

I know, I know, people like Iron Man and big clangy suits.  So do I.  I like them more when there is some actual tension or decent development.  

Blah blah lost another suit, oh here is another!  Not compelling.

To be fair, you can blame all the "tons of empty suits fighting" schtick on legions of comics writers from yesteryear and today. That scene with 40-some odd Iron Man armors lining up is ripped straight out of the end of every Iron Man writer's run.

He couldn't call up the other suits because of the concrete.  He can leave a message for Potts in a helmet, but can't connect to the server version of JARVIS ?  What, JARVIS LIVES IN THE SUIT ?  Why, in this world of hi-tech Wifi Cloud that he appears to live in, DID JARVIS DIE ?

You should shut up and stop telling people here they don't get it because of your own fuckin stupid tissue paper rationalisations.  Fundamental Design Feature my fucking Arsehole.

JARVIS in the suit died because the suit lost power and the ability to connect to server JARVIS. Pretty consistent with technology both real and movie-based. Not much rationalization there. It wasn't Shakespeare, but the amount of nerd rage here is pretty fucking epic.

Given that the suits can be powered by the reactor in Tony's chest, why did the suit lose power and once it had lost power for some reason, why not hook it up to the chest reactor? Also if he can phone the mainframe to leave a message, then even if we accept your local/server Jarvis rationalisation, why couldn't the suit contact mainframe Jarvis? Jarvis went crazy before the suit lost power.

But this stuff only really gets noticed because the characters were all doing things that made no fucking sense.

The film was fun but silly. Much as DKR was fun but silly. And was weaker than the previous films as a result.

Yeah, that.  I can phone all my fucking applications RIGHT NOW.  Some of you chaps are rationalising 'Tony Stark is a genius, it works like magic' while ignoring what that precisely means.

It means he should have Jarvis in his ear ALWAYS.  But that'd make things too easy and avoid the 'let's shoehorn a kid in there' nonsense.

There was too much ionization in the atmosphere.

A Wizard did it.

Tachyons.

Narrativium. (http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/index.php/Narrativium)

I assumed that the individual pieces needed their own power supply for the occasions when they separate.  And his suit was kinda trashed at the time, so I figured he needed to do a small amount of fixup before donning it again, thus robbing him of the opportunity to charge it with his core.  I realize this is all rationalization on my part, and was not communicated by the movie AT ALL, but it made enough sense to me that I wasn't bothered by it while watching.

And I have total respect for that, but when I see a guy with an Arc Reactor mounted in his chest that he's spent all the last film designing a new element for to power the core to unheard of and unimaginable levels and he's got a couple of fucking jump leads attached to a Car Battery, my first instinct is 'Wait, What?'

It almost feels like they wanted to remove the reactor at the beginning of the movie, then pushed it to the end after his big emotional shift and things fell apart after that.  A singular change that fixes a lot of problems. (Though not the 'two phonecalls' part.)

That would have made more sense.

This thread has added an entirely new layer to my anticipation of Pacific Rim.

ARGGGG

STOP DOING THAT.

Ok, but if we REALLY want to get all nerdragey and super-sciency about it, if he could have the shrapnel near his heart just fucking removed like he did at the end (SPOILER!!!!!!), why spend 3 movies with the reactor on his chest?

Basically, if you start poking holes in 3 based on LOGIC... the whole goddamn franchise falls apart. I'm not saying you guys don't have valid reasons for not liking it or having your suspension of disbelief experience a tachyon meltdown, all I'm saying is it's a fun movie that completely falls apart if you think about it for one goddamn second.

So don't. Or you'll fucking hate it. Which apparently you do.

Robert Downey Jr. is the voice of my generation and Iron 3 is his opus magnum.

Some of you guys are killing me. I look foward to bajillion page thread of neckbeard nerd rage once the new trek movie release. Also if this thread is any indication, they just better shut the internet down when disney starts chuening star wars movies that have nothing to do with canon.

It really isn't my fault you don't pay any fucking attention and live to bitch about shit that doesn't matter.

Pretty sure what 'nerdrage' there is in this thread isn't about the movie.

F13 in a nutshell. :)

This was a strange movie, and not really in a good way.

Saw this last night.  Needing to charge the suit off external power to provide tension was pretty stupid given that the first movie established that he's got a power plant in his chest.  Herp derp.  Seems like they could have done the same story while coming up with some less stupid reason that he doesn't have access to any of his suits.  

I did love the bit with him Macgyvering a bunch of weapons and punching people, though.

I think had I written this movie I'd have skipped all the multiple autonomous suit nonsense, had him lose access to his suit because it gets stolen while he's drunk or something like that, he has to fight a bunch of minor bad guys with the Macgyver gadgets to get his suit back, then once he has the suit we get the big final action scene, except it's just him beating the crap out of all the super soldiers on his own instead of having an army of kamikaze tinfoil suits.

I actually felt that way about 2. It just didn't work for me. The big fight at the end was dumb, him falling all apart as party animal/wierd electrodes-in-his-head stuff was all herky jerky, that movie just wasn't good. They spent a good chunk of the movie establishing that he thought he was the only one who could be Iron Man. But that can only work if the audience believes an exosuit can only be powered by an arc tumor near ones' heart.

3 worked for me because it got him back to his tinkerer roots once he realizes the tech is out there now and that it doesn't matter because there's an as-powerful alternative way to super-humanism. It also got back to that figuring-shit-out sense of discovering newness. So what if it was all a bunch of A-Team/MacGuyver handwaving? The franchise has always been that. They never tried to root this in reality. We have Nolan's Batman for realistic billionaire-gadgety superhero stuff.

Granted, I do see why people care. See me in 2015 when the first of the Star Wars movies come out  :grin: So I can't nerdrage about nerdrage on principal. I'm just with Haemish on this: this entire trilogy falls apart the moment the very second thing Stark does when he gets home isn't to remove the goddamn shrapnel slowly killing him.

Why would he ?

It gives him an excuse to wear the reactor.  That gives him an excuse to wear the Suit.

That's why he had it removed at the end of 3.  We're supposed to think he's grown up.

(Blatant Rationalisation Brought to You by Ironwood Inc, Responsible for Irrational Rationalisations since 1974.  If you have a friend who you feel could benefit from a rationalisation, please call this Number :  0845 IRNMN3SHITE)

He's clearly shown he never needed an excuse to do anything so again, why not get the shrapnel removed? I didn't buy the "grown up" thing at the end of 3 at all. We all know it wouldn't stick because that's not who this character is. He only grows up in the sense that he accepts responsibility for the things he's created and tries to use those things for good.

I think you missed the bit in the brackets.

I'm ok with a suspension of disbelief, but a movie such as this has to play within it's own pre-established rules, and this one did not.

Well, by mid-way through 2 it's more of "a Suit", and by the end it's established even having a person inside isn't a requirement.

But yea, rationalizing this is headache inducing. Mostly because we're not rationalizing Tony Stark and Iron Man. We're instead finding logic chains between three movies written by different groups for similar business goals but against different managers who have evolving requirements to achieve specific numbers. Which happen to include a character named Tony Stark.

I'd actually love to just talk about the story and protagonist, be to this thread what Nayr is to Mass Effect. But I can't get past the business of how this stuff is made and how that business can affect it.

tl;dr: midiclorians.

Not only this, but the end of the movie gives the IM Movie Franchise Team a pretty much perfect setup to drag tony BACK into the suit he claims to have given up:  Armor Wars.   All it will take is someone stealing the tech for the Warmachine suit from the Feds (and hell, at least 2 badguys / villian groups have had their way with it by now) and using it to kill people, and voila, Tony now gets to design the Mark 43 and go tech smashing.

CBG19 didn't like it much (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-9VKrBzlzg). She makes some good points and completely misses the mark on some things, and seems to fundamentally hate Harly, which I think she's utterly off her head on as the interactions between him and Tony provided some of the best lines in the film. Especially when we see that Tony doens't automatically patronize him* - he pretty much treats the kid like he'd treat an adult, which is awesome.


*well, patronize him for being a child. Tony is pretty much on auto-patronize for most of the world.

Left Coast Liberal Tony Stark comes to my state and pisses all over it!

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/why-chattanooga-area-chamber-commerce-irked-iron-man-164859093.html (http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/why-chattanooga-area-chamber-commerce-irked-iron-man-164859093.html)

1) I always assume Jarvis does all the heavy lifting so to speak when things like this come up.  Jarvis gets Stark's signal and performs the actual flying all the pieces 850 miles part.

2) I assume the suits break apart on some impacts when there's no one inside them so they'll take less damage from the impact.  Obviously they can't do what with someone inside.

The only two things that bothered me was needing to recharge the suit with a battery (why was his arc reactor thing suddenly not able to charge the suit?) and where exactly is Jarvis's A.I. program running?

You could almost come to the conclusion that Jarvis is an exotic emergent AI that requires Stark's suit AND whatever he's got buried underneath his house to really function at full efficiency AND the fat pipeline of the suit to talk to him in real time. I don't see why that's totally out of line with what we see in the flicks.

ARG.  STOP IT.

The Jarvis thing would have slid right by me if not for the car battery scene and the power-runs-out-in-the-snow scene.

Tony Stark looking for a power source is like watching spiderman trying to find a step ladder.

Damn you, I'm already at two Signatures.  So gooood tho.

The only way that J.A.R.V.I.S. isn't coming back is if Paul Bettany doesn't think it's worth his time anymore, and even then he'll just have a new voice.  I mean if Stark is sentimental enough to fish his robotic arms out of the wreckage, thinking that he destroyed J.A.R.V.I.S. without a way to get him back is dumb.

Who said Jarvis wasn't coming back ?

Thought this was ok but they can't really go back to Ironman after this, he's Ironmen now, whenever he get hit in a fight people will expect him to just step into a new suit.  Bit of a silly corner to write yourself into really.

I've maintained the opinion he should have always been 'IronMen'. Even if it isn't all super remote control powers or whatever, why isn't he making suits for like SHIELD, or even his other non-superpower avenger buddies? Maybe make sexy redhead and archerman more useful when the aliens invade again.  :why_so_serious:

Worked for Spiderman.  Oh wait.  It didn't.

 :why_so_serious:

Again, it all comes down to the reason they did Armor Wars in the comics.  Tony simply does not trust other people with his suit tech.  Pretty much the ONLY person he ever allowed to have their own suit for an extended amount of time was Warmachine, and only because Rhodes was his bestest bestest friend in the whole wide world.  The instant the potential for someone to harm an innocent with his tech arrives, he goes completely off the deep end trying to make sure all of that tech is taken out of public circulation (right up to the point of personally attacking other super heroes who were using variations on his tech and takeing their shit away).

I don't mind that, but him switching suits several times lessens the whole guy in an iron suit thing.  I dunno I haven't read the comics maybe they do that crap there too.

Yeah, I thought it kinda drained the tension out of that whole fight.  The fight in the first movie where you saw his suit taking a beating actually had drama and tension where it was like oh shit, that suit's pretty awesome, but how much more punishment can it take?  In this movie it's like oh, another suit fell to pieces instantly, but one of the twenty others will pop in now so it's cool.

Even the self-deploying suit tech kinda lessens the impact IMO.  I really liked the feeling in the first movie of how Tony getting suited up was like a knight putting on his armor, and once he had that thing on you knew shit was getting real.

He pretty much did not trust what shield would do with them. That is why he only made them for himself and his friend warmachine. He knew Rhodes very well and trusted him completely so made a suit for him and only him.

Yes, him being in one suit while others are remotely controlled has been in the comics for at least a decade if not more. Really, the idea of one man in Iron Man suit died sometime in the 90's.

EDIT: Also, wasn't the plot of the entire 2nd movie about how he didn't and shouldn't trust anyone else with his tech? War Machine still existed because he couldn't exactly take it back from the US Government.

Not to mention a great deal of the plot in the avengers, and whole point of him shutting down the Stark arms business in the first film.

Ugh, too many forums I think I am mixing up different threads.  lol

Just got back from watching. I thought it was fine Summer fun.

The things some you guys are complaining about the Mk 42 seemed fine to me. The pieces all had repulsors in them. That was established in the very first test we saw. Flying the pieces from Chattanooga to Miami of course seems like a stretch but if you are willing to accept repulsor technology in the first place it's not that much of one. The Mk 42 is also designed to be operated without Tony inside (shown multiple times in the movie). That means it needs to have power sources within the pieces independent of his chest arc reactor. Why he didn't just like sleep in his suit to recharge it while in TN is not clear (maybe he was too busy working and didn't sleep like was established at the beginning of the movie) but I don't have any issue with the suit also requiring some other energy source to charge it back up.

And you guys were so busy sperging about the impossibility of charging the suit off the car battery you completely missed the thematic point it was trying to make (clumsily): Tony started this whole journey to becoming Iron Man hooked up to a car battery, stuck a nuclear reactor in his chest to replace it, and then wound up hooked up to a car battery anyway.

--Dave

And then tossed the arc reactor into the ocean at the end.

If Stark gave a damn about his suit tech you would not have seen that grand finale.  You know what I thought when I saw that?


What an asshole. 

Tony Stark IS an asshole. He just happens to be a brilliant, rich and handsome one.

This would be a good point if he didn't have the nuclear reactor you mention still strapped to his chest at the time.

Yeah.  That was the point it was trying to make.

 :oh_i_see:

The problem isn't that comic books are unrealistic.  :awesome_for_real: The problem is when writers use the "Wizard did it" excuse to toss in any old harebrained idea.
The first IM movie spent some time and effort to get us to buy into the idea that the armor was plausible. Even if it isn't.
Then, the unfortunate next step, unless they're very careful, is to extapolate and have nanotech armor that contains a VI copy of Tony Stark's mind, that can fly faster than light and eat asteroids and make copies of itself and soon there's zillions of Iron Manses flying around the galaxy gaining sentience and learning to cast magic spells and summoning demons and demon powered space armor that's possessed by the ghost of Elvis and shoots guitars at bad guys.

And then comes the reboot because the next writer takes a look at this shit and goes  :ye_gods: :uhrr: and wants to tell a fucking Iron Man story where Tony Stark wears Iron Man armor and punches bad guys again.

Well yeah.  But we've all said that.  At Length.

The argument comes when people who don't mind that say 'So Fucking What?'

Which is where I like to bow out.

At least they didn't follow the Extremis comic book plot line and only borrowed some elements from it. That would've required a movie reboot if they did that.

See: FF6 thread.

How it should have ended (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUYW0JyzydA)  :awesome_for_real:

So, so true.

So much win!  :heart:

'Oh my gosh this is totally the incredibles'

Concept images for the title sequence (http://imgur.com/a/YImSw#2C6NUUh)

From the company that did the credits. Some interesting ideas there, better than what they ended up with I think.

I just thumbed through this thread...I'm guessing that it is a bit clearer now how IM3 sets up Phase II (Ultron).  I find it interesting that we've been told that the real setup for Avengers II is in Cap II.  I'm betting that will be where Fury gets kicked out of SHIELD.

While I enjoyed this flick, I had the same problem most of you did, but have explained away most of it to allow me to be satisfied with the movie.  Denial for pleasure sake.  The fragile armor makes sense if you remember that all of those suits were prototypes that he pumped out in rapid succession to test things out.  They may not have been intended to be used in a real fight, but merely been made for him to test out ideas.  Why make them with expensive durable materials if you're just testing out stealth mode?  Also, having the armor pieces travel 850 miles in a couple minutes roughly matches the maximum rocket speed we've achieved - 25,000 MPH (850 miles in ~ 2 minutes).  Having him match that speed with armor bits is about as unrealistic as the rest of his tech, such as the ability to absorb impacts that should turn his brain to mush.

Btw: I'm betting the next time we see Stark will not be Avengers II.  I'm betting he makes an appearance in SHIELD - and would not be surprised to see him appear in the post credits scene in Cap II.  I think they'll give us snippets of each of the movie characters on the TV show before Avengers II hits.

Um ?

I guess the interwebs ate the pictures up some time in the past 10 weeks.

Ooops.  Damn this Late Scottish Internet.