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Title: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Ghambit on April 24, 2012, 02:27:27 PM http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/04/decision-to-entangle-effects-results-of-measurements-taken-beforehand.ars?comments=1#comments-bar
This is not really news to a lot of people, but it IS news to people who desire experimental verification. The ol' double-slit experiment strikes again this in instance with an interesting twist. Note: the idea of this type experiment has been around for a long time, but obviously getting it done with repute and procedural 'perfection' is another matter. This is another boon to simulationist theory (assuming its verified), which more and more heavyweights are now ascribing to. Also so to closed time loop theories that cite Information as the real key to mastering space-time, with consciousness perhaps being the material catalyst in that action can come from reaction e.g. registered phenomena gain meaning when consciously given a relationship with other registered phenomena. For instance, say we combined this experiment with Mallet's closed-time loop laser experiments. We turn the machine on, intend to leave it on indefinitely, and are immediately flooded with info. from the future and the past. Whether or not those spacetimes have collapsed on themselves is irrelevant as there's an informational relationship outside of normal spacetime regardless. The key is sending/recv bits instead of matter-energy. We can then consciously gain "it from bit" as Wheeler dictates, within our reference frame. Quote With our ideal realization of the delayed-choice entanglement swapping gedanken experiment, we have demonstrated a generalization of Wheeler’s “delayed-choice” tests, going from the wave-particle duality of a single particle to the entanglement-separability duality of two particles39. Whether these two particles are entangled or separable has been decided after they have been measured. If one views the quantum state as a real physical object, one could get the seemingly paradoxical situation that future actions appear as having an influence on past and already irrevocably recorded events. However, there is never a paradox if the quantum state is viewed as to be no more than a “catalogue of our knowledge”2. Then the state is a probability list for all possible measurement outcomes, the relative temporal order of the three observer’s events is irrelevant and no physical interactions whatsoever between these events, especially into the past, are necessary to explain the delayed-choice entanglement swapping. What, however, is important is to relate the lists of Alice, Bob and Victor’s measurement results. On the basis of Victor’s measurement settings and results, Alice and Bob can group their earlier and locally totally random results into subsets which each have a different meaning and interpretation. This formation of subsets is independent of the temporal order of the measurements. According to Wheeler, Bohr said: “No elementary phenomenon is a phenomenon until it is a registered phenomenon.”5, 7 We would like to extend this by saying: “Some registered phenomena do not have a meaning unless they are put in relationship with other registered phenomena.” The paper: http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1203/1203.4834.pdf disclaimer: I don't fully understand this shit (as you'd expect) Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: MahrinSkel on April 24, 2012, 04:34:00 PM To the degree that I understand this, it makes my brain hurt. Somewhere in there is "God's Thumbprint", the answer to "Life, the Universe, and Everything." And I'm really afraid that answer is "Divide by zero error."
--Dave Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Ghambit on April 24, 2012, 05:07:21 PM To the degree that I understand this, it makes my brain hurt. Somewhere in there is "God's Thumbprint", the answer to "Life, the Universe, and Everything." And I'm really afraid that answer is "Divide by zero error." --Dave Infinitesimal Calculus has been described as derivative of "ghosts of departed quantities." :uhrr: Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: pxib on April 24, 2012, 06:35:56 PM This is another boon to simulationist theory (assuming its verified), which more and more heavyweights are now ascribing to. Also so to closed time loop theories that cite Information as the real key to mastering space-time, with consciousness perhaps being the material catalyst in that action can come from reaction e.g. registered phenomena gain meaning when consciously given a relationship with other registered phenomena. It just as capably demonstrates the opposite: The future is singular, as Gödel theorized, so Victor's choice wasn't a choice at all. It was the only thing that was actually going to happen, so Alice and Bob's results remain consistent with his own. Alternately, Bohr was right and our understanding of what's actually happening is and will always remain incomplete. With their last paragraph, the paper's authors seem to side with the latter. Either way, and bizzare as it seems, there's nothing new here. This particular quirk of the Standard Model has been known for a century. Experimental proof just makes it more awkward. Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: bhodi on April 24, 2012, 06:36:27 PM Any phenomenon that touches on the observer/observed inevitably has a horde of lay people that draw completely incorrect conclusions. The double-slit experiment is the absolute worst for this. The uncertainty principle probably doesn't actually mean what you think it means either.
In fact, it's pretty much the case in any particle physics. Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Murgos on April 25, 2012, 04:59:35 AM When you need to propose outrageously complex theories to justify the observed behavior while still fitting it within your original model then chances are that the original model is fundamentally flawed.
As I understand it, this was always Einsteins problem with quantum theory and the source of his quote, "God does not play dice with the universe." You see this sort of thing throughout history, retrograde motions of the stars and etc... that eventually go away once a better model is found. Unfortunately, in this case quantum theory works so well in so many cases that it's really hard to see where it could be wrong. Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Sky on April 25, 2012, 06:33:27 AM And Bohrs properly rejoined that quote.
It's too bad we won't be around in a hundred years to laugh at the primitive science because nobody has discovered the proper methods and tools for measuring quantum phenomena. We're looking for dice and god is an mmo dev. :drill: Quantum patch 1.2! Though character wipes kinda suck. Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Baldrake on April 25, 2012, 06:55:20 AM I think all we really care about is whether this can be used to implement negative ping...
Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Ghambit on April 25, 2012, 07:42:16 AM I think all we really care about is whether this can be used to implement negative ping... Hmm... let us take this further. Toon A and Toon B are sitting in Azeroth about to engage in a duel. They both communicate with the server at a given clockspeed. Toon B though has a tablet that gives him direct realtime access to the root code of the server. He cant make sense of the code and it changes as soon as he does anything (including think, intend, etc.), but he can program the tablet to pick shards on the server and subsets of code that are contextually relevant to what he and Toon A are doing. Using this, the tablet can then inform Toon B what Toon A is about to do outside of ping. If Toon B wanted more advance notice, all he'd have to do is institute a longer clockspeed (lag); perhaps by increasing their speed (putting stress on the system). He'd still technically be on equal footing with Toon A and neither would notice any difference, but his tablet would have the even greater advantage since its got realtime access to the root. Toon B uses the advantage, making it look like he's seeing into the future when in fact all he's doing is recognizing a lagfree present. Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Lantyssa on April 25, 2012, 07:56:04 AM Any phenomenon that touches on the observer/observed inevitably has a horde of lay people that draw completely incorrect conclusions. Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Ghambit on April 25, 2012, 10:32:33 AM You're no fun.
Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Sir T on April 25, 2012, 11:48:16 AM So, Hitler lost world war 2 due to heavy server lag tomorrow. Got it.
Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Lantyssa on April 25, 2012, 02:15:04 PM You're no fun. It was already determined I would be no fun by you telling me I'm no fun.Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: pxib on April 25, 2012, 02:40:37 PM No time travel to see here, folks. Only time-like travel.
Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Rendakor on April 25, 2012, 10:33:21 PM Shame we weren't posting in this thread during f13's stint in the future.
Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Merusk on April 26, 2012, 05:39:50 AM You're no fun. It was already determined I would be no fun by you telling me I'm no fun.Hm.. You're straight! :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Lantyssa on April 26, 2012, 07:32:11 AM Weird. I corrected my posture while reading this thread. Eerie.
Someone tell me I'm rich. ;D Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: pxib on April 26, 2012, 03:07:28 PM In the future a third party analysis of your wealth may determine that you're rich.
EDIT: ...and by then even you may realize just how good you had it. :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Surlyboi on April 26, 2012, 03:43:42 PM The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote...
Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: naum on April 27, 2012, 03:31:18 PM (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ye3V3pyENGo/T5k5bcGxLhI/AAAAAAAADxU/rkOEwLduW4c/s1600/nancy-reagan-on-mr-ts-lap-22767-1233292335-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Entanglement a posteriori or "The Matrix is Real" Post by: Murgos on April 29, 2012, 07:43:30 AM I think you've identified the exact moment that the US jumped the shark. It explains a lot really.
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