f13.net

Elfbowl Season 1 Roster.

Keebler Division:
Gruntle -  Elf Hatred - Dark Elf
Haemish - The Pale Horses - Dark Elf
Llyse - Labor Day - High Elf
Ruvaldt - Haute Couture - High Elf
Ulysees - I Break Easy - Wood Elf
Eldaec - Guild of Fools - Pro Elf

North Pole Division:
Teleku - Chris Dane Owens Fan Club - Dark Elf
Megrim - Spiderland Reavers - Dark Elf
Strazos - Here Be DWAGONS - High Elf
IainC - Considerably Elfier - High Elf
Luckton - Morningwood Packers - Wood Elf
Comstar - Ponyelves II - Pro Elf

I'm going to miss this. Not super keen on starting a new elf team, and I'm going away next week.

Maybe limit the amount of rerolls to 2, plus 1 Leader reroll?

Out of interest more than anything... why do that?

Why do what, limit rerolls?

I guess I could be in, play a high elf team or something.

I'll be in for this.

I'm in although, limiting rerolls is kinda good but bad.

I mean aren't the rerolls priced differently for each elf team for balance?

So limiting rerolls means Pro elves are disadvantaged since they only pay 50,000 for each reroll?

Yeah, I'm actually pretty keen on having some rule regarding rerolls, and there seems to be some support for it.  The problem I have is the same one Llyse expressed: I don't want the league rules to favor one team type.  Pro Elves have all AV7 and expensive players, but they also have cheap rerolls to help ameliorate those costs.

Maybe a very small limit on rerolls, like Comstar suggested, rather than no rerolls?  I don't know...we've got plenty of time to talk about it and figure it out, and it looks like there is definitely enough interest to do this thing.

Seems to me, the fewer restrictions you put in, the more variety you can have between teams. And lack of variety is usually the problem with these gimmick leagues.

Well it's the first time this type has been run- anyone have any experience of playing in such a league? Go with no limits and see how it goes.

Also, would these teams be allowed to be imported to the Main league.

I'm guessing 'no' on the main league question.

Surely it would be exactly the same as bringing in a team from the feeder league. As long as the team hasn't played any non-f13 matches and meets the TV limits I don't see why they couldn't be imported into a new main league.

You would have to play it in the Feeder league like the D&M cup to be eligable. Falc's rules.

I'm in!  And I support allowing as many re-rolls as you want.  Each side gets them, and the teams are balanced for them, so I don't see a problem.  I'm perfectly fine with the games consiting of each side 2 turn scoring against the other, in hilariously high scoring games.  That's actually the main reason I want to play.   :why_so_serious:

Neither do I since we're only playing the same people, and that's sort of the point for the Feeder League, but that's totally up to Falc, and I haven't even asked him about it.  Though I may now just out of curiosity.  It would be fun if that was allowed.

no rerolls no peace

Does that mean you'll be playing a male model themed high elf team, Sjofn?   :grin:

I am a little sad THE BLUE STEEL pro elf team I have in the feeder league played a pity-game versus proudft (which they lost, because I suck at pro elves most of all), otherwise I'd just use them!  :why_so_serious:

So I guess I'll be signing you up.

Make an Oklahoma themed Pro Elf team instead.  We can all sing "Pore Jud is Daid" when the inevitable happens.

"He looks like he's asleep, It's a shame that he won't keep- But it's summer and we're running out of ice."

I would be in.  As far as rerolls, I'd say no limit or nothing at all.

Question: Wood Elfs; Treemen or no Treemen?

I wouldn't bother in the beginning because in order to do so you essentially have to give up a war dancer.  After a while though they can actually be useful, and I would take one in a normal league because they're good at occupying some of the los and thus protecting the fragile elves.  

In this league, however, I'm not sure I would ever take a treeman because they're so damned slow and everyone else is going to be dodgey.  You might still think they'd be good for cage breaking, but as a wood elf you have some excellent cage breaking tools with your war dancer once you get her strip ball to complement leap.

Eh, don't sign me up yet, I need to mull it over a bit more.

I'm In!

Dunno what race yet.

IMHO: As many RR as you want, and Woodies get the Treeman (he really is useless vs high agi teams, bar his... first block...).

I'm in Welves. I reserve the right to switch if we have a zillion Welf teams.

Also, let people pick the treeman if they want. He's the worst big guy in the game so if someone wants to go with one, more power to him.

I'm probably going to give this one a pass (the theme leagues are proving to just not have enough variety game to game to keep me interested) but I think restricting rerolls is a bad idea. All it really does is penalize dark elves, who are the only ones that don't start with reroll skills already on their scoring pieces. I dunno, maybe you want to do that.

On the other hand, if Dark Elves didn't have to purchase rerolls during team creation they could afford a pretty spectacular set of positionals.  All four blitzers, two witch elves and a runner or assassin.  Normally that wouldn't be a strong team at TV1000 without rerolls, but if no one has rerolls it could be tough for other teams to play against them.  That said, allowing rerolls certainly looks like the majority opinion so far.

Variety has been lacking in the other theme leagues, but this one could easily be different as we are talking about four different races as opposed to just one.

I'm not sure what I'll be playing.  I've never played high elves so that's definitely calling me.

I would play but you might not want me to; I am horrible with elves, either playing them or playing against them. So I've come to passionately hate all elves in blood bowl. I confess up front that my goal if I were in the league would be to cause as much elf injury and death as possible (to yours and mine). I don't know if anyone would have much fun playing against that, on the one hand everyone is practically guaranteed a victory against my sELF-hating team (because again I 'm hopeless with or against elves) but on the other hand, I'll be the asshole doing fouls on turn 16, trying to wreck your players even when there's no immediate strategic gain (and elves are pretty expensive players). I just hate dem elves so damn much! So much! However if I was to play in the league, I do have a small sliver of hope that there's still a chance that with the right elf (like an assassin with multi-block who could stab up to 3 elves a turn) I might learn to love elves again.

But I'll leave it to everyone else in the league to decide if they want to play against a team with a goal like that, as I concede in most leagues I don't terribly enjoy playing against that mindset.

(As for whether or not to have rerolls I don't care much but just in terms of trying something different I'd vote against them, it's not like blood bowl is well-balanced anyway. I assume cas isn't the tie break this time? Goal difference, less goals against, what are the tie breaks going to be in this league?)

You should play, Gruntle.  That's a reasonable tactic, in my book.  I hate elves too, and revel in their destruction.  Just imagine, you'll have a whole stable full of them to butcher.

As for what will break ties, I don't know.  that's what this thread is for, I guess.  My opinion is that it should be goal difference because I think that it would reward defense as well as offense.

Well, I'm willing -- so sign me up, but if anyone voices any objection to my team (Hmm, "Elf-Hating Jews"? Even the name could be a problem) there then please remove it, no offense taken...

Bring it Gruntle, flair and faggotry shall win teh day!

Entwine!  Do we have a new f13 Blood Bowler...?  Come on, you know you want to.   :grin:

Peanut-gallery comments, since I don't really have time for more blood bowl:

You could simply force teams to start with no rerolls. Cheap-reroll teams would be able to buy their rerolls moderately faster -- while expensive reroll teams would have that additional expense doubled. As mentioned, teams that start with more key skills (pro elves, mostly?) would benefit from this rule, but it might at least create more dramatic games early on. On the other hand it might also dramatically increase the death-spiral snowballing effect of bad early injury luck, since saving up for expensive rerolls while simultaneously trying to replace dead positionals is a recipe for depression.

And contrary to the belief of seemingly everyone who ever predicts scores for main-league games involving elves, they really don't score every 2 turns, nor is scoring every 2 turns necessarily the best idea even if might otherwise be possible.

TBH I can't decide whether to join or not either given I didn't enjoy the H+HII league but that was because my team joined in season 2 and pretty much got pounded by better developed teams. Having said that I would be in on the ground floor here so will decide before the start date is finalised.

In terms of the rules I would say allow teams whatever players they want on them but for re-rolls limit it to 2 and only allow them to be used on blocks. Most positionals have built in re-rolls on them anyway and as IainC said failing a dodge or a pass or a catch with no modifiers is normally a 1-2 roll which is good odds in terms of risk but I hate rolling double skulls to end my damn turn so would not be averse to allowing re-rolls to be used for blocks only. That is just my personal preference and suggestion. The re-roll rule decision would not be a deciding factor on whether I join, it's the fact I suck at playing elves that woudl stop me, my luck just doesn't seem to run when my team consist of pointy eared faery's!

I say, in the spirit of Elfish Bullshit, that no Blocks be allowed at all!  You must win through pure force of will, the chance that you might tackle a bitch as they jump out of a TZ, and shear goddamned luck  :drill:

About the RRs:

Keep in mind, that most teams will probably bulk up on Diving Tackle, Shadowing & Tackle = so those 2+  rolls, won't really be 2+ rolls - More like a 4+ and no RR or multiple 2+'s.

I know this is later down the line; but in an all AGI league I'll be spamming those skills, because they are super effective at stopping the pointy eared ones!

Just a thought!

Yeah, I really feel the rules for this should simply be "Make an elf team and join the league."  Its not like the H&H league where everybody is taking the exact same players on every team and just skilling them differently.  Restricting rerolls is just going to make it less enjoyable overall given all the other balancing factors.

Though I do kind of like lucktons no blocking allowed idea.  Passing and elegant dodging for all!  :why_so_serious:

On reflection, I think I'll play in this one. I really hated the Horns and Hooves, but I've been meaning to try a Dark Elf team, and what better way to do that than against other fruity elves?

Yeah, this league will be nothing like H&H (though I loved H&H).  One shouldn't decide against joining based upon that experience.  

All beastman Chaos teams essentially just butt heads until someone wins.  All Elf competitions, I imagine, are pretty much the opposite of that...unless you play against Gruntle, apparently.

Fixt.

Why would anyone get shadowing?

It tends to fuck over pieces that try to dodge away often (like elves)?

Also if someone isn't paying attention and clicks for the whole move rather than one square at a time, they suddenly find that they need to make a whole lot of dodges instead of just the one.

'

Blodge+SideStep+Tackle+Shadowing on a GR/Elf Catcher? You have a pretty insane marker right there which forces multiple roles from the opponent, and really the only way to make an agi team fail is to sack the thrower or force dice-rolls (or simply knock them all out).

I once had a Block + 2MV (8) + Shadowing + Stand Firm Orc Blitzer, he was pretty mean and added a new dimension to the team :)

Yeah, but shadowing is only good if the shadower has higher MV than the shadowee.

When you have the same MV shadowing only works 40% of the time. Ok I guess. But best with a MV advantage, so mostly for Wood Elf catchers I would think.

Ruvaldt made his case to me about allowing teams from this League to be imported in the main one.

I have nothing against it, but admission to the Main League will still follow the usual rules, 1300 TV, no money, NO GAMES outside of the f13 ring. WHat is gonna happen here is that the ElfBowl is becoming part of the f13 ring, so teams playing in it are eligibile for Main League consideration by the usual  Feeder League rules.

Objections?

Or me, should I choose to join (still deciding). Remember, I play my elves like they're Norse.  :why_so_serious:

Highly tempted to join, mostly only if reroll rules aren't mucked with. I mean, what's the point of an elf-only league if not to maximize elf bullshit? Though I'd probably go the kill-the-fey-bastards route myself.

No blocking is a much more interesting prospect, though it means that if you're up in the second half and can pick up the ball, you have a guaranteed victory just by not moving your ball carrier and stalling out the game. Unless they have a wizard, I guess.

Or it's just a normal league with elves.

One of THE BLUE STEEL's linebackers getting fitted for his uniform:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/devofreak/Elfbowl.jpg)

I'll join if I can think of a decent theme. Pondering...

I might go Dark Elf and play them as if they were Orcs  :grin:

I get the distinct feeling that is what everybody is planning on doing.

I'm seriously sad THE BLUE STEEL played a match versus proudft's stupid humans and are thus ineligable.  :heartbreak:

I could recycle my Gilbert & Sullivan theme idea into elves but meh. A Rodgers & Hammerstein theme could work, and I would actually be happy when my elves died, because fuck do I hate Rodgers & Hammerstein. Hmmmm.

Just delete it and recreate it.  That wouldn't take any more than five to ten minutes.

No way, the SPP on that team was hard earned.  :ye_gods:

I'll give this a go.

Community pack has a bunch of new hi res textures for elf teams BTW.

Sign me up as well will think of a team name when this is ready to go, will play wood elves since I at least have a little experience with those.

When does this start or am I too late to join?

You are not too late, and it starts shortly after Bleatbowl II has been played.  Which is likely to be done relatively soon.

I actually have to duck out. Too much school for me to take on another league, I'm afraid.

If you wind up with an odd number I'll join and then whine endlessly about how I suck at elves and I don't know why I even play Blood Bowl.

That's the spirit!

Decided to start fresh with a Wood Elf team.  Submitted this morning to the Feeder.

Rules updated.

You have until March 2nd to sign up or pull out.  I'll be creating the league on that day so that folks have all weekend to get their team in.

Yeah, I kinda failed here and didn't apply with a new elf team for Feeder league but I have a premade Dark elf team if it's too late to submit a new elf team.

Bring on the pansyness!  :drillf:

I am not in.

Wood Elf Team "I Break Easy" created and ready for submission to the league. If you guys don't manage to decimate, destroy and kill this team I will be VERY disappointed.

The Pale Horses, a Dark Elf team, await the league for a signup.

This is for new teams right?

Yes.  New teams only.  I'll be creating the league within an hour or so and give information on it here.

f13 Elfbowl *Season 1* has been created.  There is no password for the league, simply apply and I'll add you.  Only new teams, and the teams must be elven.  Aside from that, build them however you like.

I will announce the divisions once everyone is signed up.  There will be two divisions, and I'll be using the official f13 rankings developed by Falconeer to guide how I assemble the divisions, but I may also pay some attention to the distribution of different elf teams depending upon what everyone picks..  There will be six games in the regular season.

I will be heading the high elf squad, Haute Couture! 

Applied with Labor Day but no feed back from Cyanide fail UI.

Let me know if Labor Day High elves app wasn't sent

Yeah, apparently there is a UI issue.  If the league doesn't have a password you can't apply from the League Search window, you have to view the league, and from the league page apply with your team.  So....I've added a password.

The password for the league is "elfbowl".  Yeah, it's stupid, I know, but it's the best way to get around that ui bug.

So far we have a high elf team, a dark elf team and a wood elf team.  Looking diverse; hope that keeps up.

Les Tigres have applied, JUST IN CASE. They are a bold, beautiful high elf team. I went back and forth between high elf and pro elf, but I don't think I have the patience to grow a little pro elf team.

No just in case about it, you're team #14.

Thank you for volunteering in case of an odd number of teams.

I Break Easy have applied - wood elf team.

Dawn Revont applied.  :awesome_for_real:

You never signed up in the thread, Bann!!  

Maybe we won't need Sjofn's new Les Tigres as an alternate.   :sad:

Riiiight, right. We were to busy.... climbing trees and eating bark to reply to the thread. Please accept our grassy apologies.

See? That's why I said JUST IN CASE. I knew there would probably still be shuffling of numbers. :P Hell, a fifteenth might emerge from somewhere!

Considering Bann's team were dwarves, you're still probably in, Sjofn.    :awesome_for_real:

Ha!

Pony elves II applied. Lets hope they go better than the last Pony Elf team did!

 :grin:

Just to be clear, not looking to play in the elf league, just wanted to give ruvaldt a chuckle.

You definitely succeeded there, pal.  They were very briefly in the league.

In with High Elves.

Still not able to high elf it up  :heartbreak:

I'm not getting a password dialogue...

Are you trying to sign up directly through the League Finder?  If so, instead, use the League Finder to search for the league, select it, and then press "View League" at the bottom right-hand side of the screen, and from the actual league page try to sign up your team from the bottom of the page there.  I've noticed that signing up for leagues that way tends to be a little less error prone.

Also, Scadente, Ginaz and Teleku need to bring their teams in.

The work around for me was to search for the league, then bring it up details of the league in the main window.  Once there, I just hit the team drop at the bottom-center and clicked in my Wood Elfs.

Hey, sorry, been distracted from anything BB related lately.  I'll try to get a team together and in tonight.

Applied with Chris Dane Owens Fan Club.

This worked for me btw

PMs and emails have been sent to the remaining two coaches.  If I don't get a team from them by Monday, 3/12/2012 we'll be starting the tournament without them.  We have 12 teams right now, which is more than enough, but having the last two to make 14 would be even better. 

Also, I'm a little surprised by the team choices.  I really thought that more people would choose dark elves, but high elves have been the most popular choice so far (2 Wood Elf, 2 Pro Elf, 3 Dark Elf, 5 High Elf).  I'm glad there will be enough variety to make things interesting.

Seems diverse enough.  Everyone's probably still reeling from the brutality of H&H and considered the slightly higher armor of the High to save them  :awesome_for_real:.

Looking forward to this.

For me it was because High Elves were the only flavour of Elf I'd not played much before.

Same - I already have a DE team I am considering migrating to the main league.

If you still need a team by Monday, I'll sign up to fill in a slot.

 * So are we still down a team or two?

I'm only playing in case of an odd number of teams, so if you submitted one I think that means I get the season off (which is fine by me, I suck at elves).

What Sjofn said.  Sorry I didn't reply sooner; I'm in Mexico City at the moment.

Go ahead and submit a team, Megrim.  As soon as you do I'll draw up the divisions and get this thing started.

Everyone has signed up and the divisions have been made.  Behold, the division-fu, which has placed exactly the same amount of each team type in both divisions while also bearing parity in mind.

Keebler Division:
Gruntle -  Elf Hatred - Dark Elf
Haemish - The Pale Horses - Dark Elf
Llyse - Labor Day - High Elf
Ruvaldt - Haute Couture - High Elf
Ulysees - I Break Easy - Wood Elf
Eldaec - Guild of Fools - Pro Elf

North Pole Division:
Teleku - Chris Dane Owens Fan Club - Dark Elf
Megrim - Spiderland Reavers - Dark Elf
Strazos - Here Be DWAGONS - High Elf
IainC - Considerably Elfier - High Elf
Luckton - Morningwood Packers - Wood Elf
Comstar - Ponyelves II - Pro Elf

I'll start a fresh thread to begin the high-scoring hillarity and announce the schedule tomorrow.  In that thread will also be an elaboration of how the tournament will proceed.  Short version: there will be five regular season games followed by a post season in which I hope to include everyone in some way and reward play that emphasizes scoring lots and lots of TDs.

I'm so investing in a Treeman, just on the off chance that I could pound some elfs into submission  :grin: