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Title: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: shiznitz on December 23, 2011, 08:03:17 AM There are lots of posts and discussions here about classes and quests. There is clearly excitement. But is the fun new or is the fun what we have come to expect?
Obviously those who play MMOs find them fun at a basic level. I am not asking about that. What makes this game more of less fun in the first 30 days compared to other MMOs first 30 days? Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Zetor on December 23, 2011, 08:08:39 AM IMO the fun is in the storylines / quests themselves. There's a truckload of content in this game: 2x4 class questlines, and planet quests for both sides... the flashpoints aren't bad either.
I'm playing it like a multiplayer / co-op KOTOR, and for that it's worth the price imo. At least for the first month or two. :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: luckton on December 23, 2011, 08:09:27 AM In a word: Story
In a few more words: The game actually immerses you into the world a hell of a lot better than other MMOs have done thus far. That's the big 'revolutionary' thing about SWTOR. Mostly everything else mechanic and gameplay-wise is carbon-copy cloned from WoW Vanilla/BC days, along with a couple extra bits here and there. If you're on the fence but are currently enjoying another MMO, I'd stay with that MMO for now until they start offering free trials. There's still a bit of madness with server queues, website/account login stuff and other noise that one who's currently satisfied elsewhere need not be bothered with. By the time they do offer a trial, most of that stuff will be squared away, and other problems will hopefully be patched up as well. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Miasma on December 23, 2011, 08:17:55 AM I don't see what's wrong with shiny and new. So long as you like story it is a fun game and worth two or three months of heavy play. Whether or not it's worth subscribing to long term will mostly be based on who you guild and play with, as with most MMOs. It is an enjoyable kotor3/mmo hybrid even though it doesn't do justice to kotor and its mmo qualities are old and unpolished.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ghambit on December 23, 2011, 08:18:47 AM It's fun, but you cant detach the fun from the fact it's the first ever true space opera MMO. That kind of newness will always create fun.
It also has a "pageturner" feel that I havent ever gotten from an MMO before save Tortage. After a while you get into the story and just want to find out what happens next. e.g. "just one more quest" In this sense, it's pretty much as good as it gets for the first 30-days; 8 KOTORS in one. After that we likely will run into issues. That being said, I still believe something like Rift or AoC is better for hardened rpgers and endgamers. They're just more mechanically sound and built more to sustain play after max lvl. TOR may fail at that, we'll see. But, it's the first game that will get me to play an alt. I'm not an alt person by a longshot. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Paelos on December 23, 2011, 08:19:37 AM The story choices are awesome, made doubly so when you play in a group and have to compete for dialogue options.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: sam, an eggplant on December 23, 2011, 09:07:01 AM It's not a great MMO. It doesn't even come close to competing with Rift.
The stories are compelling, though. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: ajax34i on December 23, 2011, 09:27:37 AM To me, I think it's fun, and will probably continue to be so as long as I'm levelling an alt and it's got a story to follow. I don't hate MMO's, and I could get into raiding later, but I'm just not interested in that right now, and that's the only thing WoW has to offer. Plus, I think pandas are stupid, so I'm gonna skip this expansion, and EVE Online is still only at the point where the devs seem interested in fixing the game, but they haven't actually made any of the big changes required to improve it, so not going back for a while.
Once the stories are exhausted, I can play Skyrim, Dragon Age 2, and Portal 2 (haven't started either), and continue X3:TC and try X3:Albion, and it should keep me busy until ME3 or X4 or whatever. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Merusk on December 23, 2011, 09:28:33 AM Mechanics wise I'll agree with that. Content wise I don't know. I didn't get in to Rift enough in beta to bother with it at launch. I liked some of their ideas and the hot-swapping of spec/ roles but not enough to leave WoW for it.
It's got more personality than Rift ever did, though. Then again I've never been one of the SW haters, even through all the idiocy of the EU, etc, so I'm biased there. It's worth taking a look at for anyone into the industry. How much you'll enjoy it and at what price point you should jump in will all depend on how much you value seeing the innovation of story-as-mmospace because it's not the UI or mechanics that you'll be playing for. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: rattran on December 23, 2011, 09:30:04 AM It's a fantasy world we know, rather than Rift's generic fantasy world. I admit to getting a kick to seeing familiar places in game, mostly familiar from other Star Wars games at this point. It's a diku, with some tweaks. If you hate mmos, you'll hate it. If you love Star Wars, you'll love it.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: ajax34i on December 23, 2011, 09:34:42 AM It's also a fantasy world that, to me, implies the absence of a grind of any kind. Nobody in the movies or books or whatever is grinding for cash or powers or anything. So, I have a feeling that it'll be a lot less fun to me once the grind starts (if it does). Which is why it'll probably suck if they nerf how fast credits can be made, or the xp curve.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: apocrypha on December 23, 2011, 09:34:53 AM It *is* shiny and new, but it's also incredibly well done.
It has a high level of polish, it's got engaging story-driven questing, it's got very, very good group mechanics that integrate well with the story, it's got decent depth of game mechanics, from character progression to crafting to gear upgrading & choices. It's visually very well designed - and that's despite my initial reservations. I think they missed a trick with the starter areas, they look very bland, but 20 mins in and it starts to look awesome. I was very, very skeptical at first. I played a tiny amount of beta and was very unimpressed, but I gave it a shot anyway and have spent the last 2 days having an obscene amount of fun with it. I have a feeling they're onto a winner here and this game will be the first MMO to even come close to denting WoW's crown. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sky on December 23, 2011, 09:59:10 AM It's a fantasy world we know, rather than Rift's generic fantasy world. I admit to getting a kick to seeing familiar places in game, mostly familiar from other Star Wars games at this point. It's a diku, with some tweaks. If you hate mmos, you'll hate it. If you love Star Wars, you'll love it. That about sums it up for me. I'm not blind to the rough edges, but hopefully they'll have plenty of time to polish it up. Remember EQ2 was my favorite game and that launched a mess.But I was thinking last night that I now understand some folk's fascination with LotR. The IP really enhances the game for me, and being slathered in Bioware sauce just keeps delivering. Oddly, in this game it's hard for me to roll an alt, and I'm normally a crazy alt-o-hollic. It's like trying to read two books at once, I just don't do it. I really love the connection to character, actually seeing your character a lot in cut-scenes really adds to that, along with decision-making along the way. Characters in every other mmo were just a means of world interaction. TOR characters are actual characters. It's awesome. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: luckton on December 23, 2011, 10:00:34 AM Oddly, in this game it's hard for me to roll an alt, and I'm normally a crazy alt-o-hollic. It's like trying to read two books at once, I just don't do it. I really love the connection to character, actually seeing your character a lot in cut-scenes really adds to that, along with decision-making along the way. Characters in every other mmo were just a means of world interaction. TOR characters are actual characters. It's awesome. I'm in the same boat. I so want to roll an Inquisitor, but I really want to see my IA's story to the end, along with unlocking that whole Legacy thing and stuff :-P Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Soln on December 23, 2011, 10:32:54 AM Not feeling it still. Feels horribly bland and at times predictable. The rails are getting to me. At least Rift surprised you with the randomness.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: luckton on December 23, 2011, 10:34:43 AM At least Rift surprised you with the randomness. 'Randomness' that quickly become predictable and bland quick. But I hear you. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: eldaec on December 23, 2011, 10:37:12 AM As a mmorpg, fun but shallow and rough around the edges.
As a bioware rpg, huge but shallow. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: MuffinMan on December 23, 2011, 10:37:38 AM The story choices are awesome, made doubly so when you play in a group and have to compete for dialogue options. This. The flashpoints are pushing me above being indifferent towards the game.Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Threash on December 23, 2011, 10:50:22 AM It's not that great, some times the story makes you want to find out what happens next but the actual gameplay is far behind both WoW and Rift.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Soln on December 23, 2011, 11:01:03 AM Part of my problem is that I don't see any carrots to advancing. I mean, if you know zero about the game and play it cold, out-of-the-box (no wikis, no game sites, no spoilers) where are the herald-quests or the lures to keep you going? For example, when do you get a ship, or a companion NPC, or a fucking staff-o-greatness? The game feels like a 2h movie that's been boring for the first hour and all you know is that there's another hour coming up.
If you're not hooked by the story from the start -- and I'm really fucking disappointed with Jedi starting area -- it's hard to know why you should keep going. With the Jedi path there's zero story lures up to lvl7 that push you on. Don't know about other classes, but at least with Smuggler you're trying at the start to get revenge. Not shitting on people's fun, since I spent 6 odd years looking forward to this title and experience. Just can't bring myself to spend hours listening to VO's to get to that magic level when the fun starts. And posting all this in the hope that there is a magic level when combat takes off and things get complex, wonky, etc. Is it like LotRO where you don't get all the neat skills and quests until level 15, 25, 35? Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: sam, an eggplant on December 23, 2011, 11:04:41 AM in the hope that there is a magic level when combat takes off and things get complex, wonky, etc. Is it like LotRO where you don't get all the neat skills and quests until level 15, 25, 35? It depends on the class. Some mature early, some later. My jedi knight only gets one AE ability until level 34, and every pull is 3-5 targets. That sucks. But my bounty hunter has 4 AE ability, one of which one-shots a group every 45 seconds.The stories are strong from level 1. Again, some more than others, obviously. At the worst you're running around killing flesh beasts, but at the best you're going undercover deceiving a Hutt, double-crossing people, etc. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ghambit on December 23, 2011, 11:27:50 AM The Empire storyline(s) (especially in the beginning) really make the game shine. The republic? notsomuch. Curious to see how it pans out.
As for my IA, I think I've slept with 3 different women already (one of whom is a sith lord) whilst I simultaneously try to get into Kaliyo's pants and save the empire from itself by being a snarky douche undercover, yet a lightside goodie in reality. The story is win, especially if you dig agency-speak and military subterfuge tactics. Some of the scenarios they come up with are quite creative. Let's be real though... PS2 is really the game I'm waiting for. And Rift is likely the game I should be playing; if not the new and improved AoC or the F2P DCUO. But TOR scratches an itch that needs scratching. It's a shame STO wasnt designed the same way. They've got some great episodic story content at endgame that's pretty damned good, but the lvling ride there is fairly nauseous. TOR is exactly the opposite. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: eldaec on December 23, 2011, 11:34:18 AM If you're not hooked by the story from the start -- and I'm really fucking disappointed with Jedi starting area -- it's hard to know why you should keep going. With the Jedi path there's zero story lures up to lvl7 that push you on. Don't know about other classes, but at least with Smuggler you're trying at the start to get revenge. I can't talk about the mid and late game, but... Agent and Smuggler storylines start out great. BH and trooper stroylines start out well. Sith storylines start out mediocre. Jedi storylines start out terrible. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Venkman on December 23, 2011, 12:06:20 PM I agree with everything said here :)
The stories are very hit or miss. For the most part the Smuggler ones are great, and the dialog options on the trash quests can be fun too. Being a diku, I couldn't care less about gear or heroics or really, any grouping at all until I hit later levels. I'm missing out on some of the cool story group quests but don't mind it much. My Smuggler is a loner who surrounds himself with loners :) The Jedi Knight story is one dimensional pap ala Episode 1. No real depth there. But I rolled one up because dammit, they're just fun as heck to watch fight so I figured I'd partake. TOR isn't really scratching an MMO itch for me. I'm curious to see if I'll give a shit at the end game. Right now it's kind of a weaksauce RPG within a fun fantasy setting derivative of the KOTOR I enjoyed a few years ago. But the upshots to me are the space combat, the cover mechanic, the companions system, and being able to see my guild again. Much as I love Skyrim, the chat channel is a bit quiet :grin: Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Morfiend on December 23, 2011, 12:32:25 PM I'm enjoying the crap out of it. Although, some of the rough edges are starting to give me blisters. One of my main points of contention is the UI. I know we have talked about the UI a lot in other threads, but now that I am getting higher in level than I did in beta it is becoming more and more evident that the UI needs a decent amount of work. My Sith Assassin hit level 30, and I find myself having almost all my bars full up. It is even to the point that I went on torhead this morning and counted up the possible abilities I will get in the next 20 levels, and talent builds, just so I can try and figure out how I am going to hotkey / quickslot them. Its a huge pain.
I think one of the reviewers hit it head on. "If you liked the story, you will like the game, if you only came for the mmo aspect, you will be disappointed". Also, I think a lot of this games longevity and staying power will be down to the dev teams ability to fix/refine and add content. Right now they do have a solid base for a long lasting MMO, but if they refuse to fix and adjust the things that people are unhappy with, the game could drop drastically. I think if their dev team spends some quality time over the next 3 to 6 months updating a bunch of the mechanic stuff to sort of "bring the game to 2012" it will do really well. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Maledict on December 23, 2011, 12:50:31 PM The storys are great and levelling is definitely fun and worth doing.
The actual gameplay is quite weak however - its a mish mash of stuff from TBC era of Warcraft combined with permanent companions ala Bioware. The class design & skill trees in particular are quite poor, and I expect a hefty serious of revisions to some classes in the first few patches. (the operative / smuggler class in particular is incredibly poorly designed for the first 30 levels of the game or so, and it's easy to see how they could improve it with some rational and simple skill / ability changes). Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Crumbs on December 23, 2011, 12:59:26 PM I find it very fun. Some random observations: Finally being in space (in a casual friendly MMO) is extremely refreshing. There are some fun abilities in all the classes. Battlegrounds are interesting in that they don't seem to be divided by level (I've done one Huttball match so far and the players ranged from lvl 10-40). Mission skills are an amazing minigame with loot. Worth a shot if you are on the fence.
I agree with the other sentiments about seemingly obvious features that are lacking. I expect that to be changed given the uproarz in the forums. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Dark_MadMax on December 23, 2011, 01:54:48 PM Stories are the main thing. The other part is that its new and the location are very well done so I am just enjoing exploration part as well. DIKU parts are very mehh and I am already getting tired of those kill "50 mobs" fillers which block my story advancements. Most heroics are nothing special and are just silvers/elites ending with a miniboss. Very few actually are worth doing (firestar for example has nice cutscene, but most dont even have any dialogue options -just terminal box window)
The rest of the mechanics are ok. Combat is ok but 1.5 GCD making it even more sluggish, classes are semi entertaining , but no dual classing limits exploration of trees . PvP is DIKU garbage (predictably) - with astonishing amount of cc (predictable too - it was obviously never meant for pvp) .If not for story I wouldnt be playing Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Nevermore on December 23, 2011, 09:46:39 PM It's also a fantasy world that, to me, implies the absence of a grind of any kind. Nobody in the movies or books or whatever is grinding for cash or powers or anything. So, I have a feeling that it'll be a lot less fun to me once the grind starts (if it does). Which is why it'll probably suck if they nerf how fast credits can be made, or the xp curve. I'm pretty sure Luke leveled up regularly from A New Hope, through Empire and into Return of the Jedi. Most of his grind took place doing all those Dagobah dailies and between Empire and Jedi, though. :why_so_serious: Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Nevermore on December 23, 2011, 10:05:14 PM I can't talk about the mid and late game, but... Agent and Smuggler storylines start out great. BH and trooper stroylines start out well. Sith storylines start out mediocre. Jedi storylines start out terrible. This is actually good news to me, because I liked how the Consular story started. There was a clear reason for doing what you're doing (get to the bottom of the attacks!) and it snowballs from there, which is why you leave for the next planet (there's more going on here than we realized!). Now I have also done the Trooper and Smuggler stories through the starting zones and they get dumped into a more 'actiony' scenario since Ord Mantell is in the midst of a civil war. The Smuggler story is indeed probably the most awesome, but I wouldn't say the Trooper story was any better than the Consular one (keeping in mind I like the Consular one). So if all the ones I haven't done yet are even better.. well, should be a lot of replay value in doing the other classes! :grin: Keep in mind also that all the zones have tons of side quests as well, which I suppose you technically don't have to do if you just want to see the main storyline. Personally I like them though, and unlike most MMOs all those side missions fit into the context of the zone very well. They give you a nice sense that these planets all have their own problems they're dealing with that aren't related to you specifically. I like how dealing with those problems makes my Jedi feel like Caine from Kung Fu, traveling through the frontier worlds righting wrongs as she encounters them. :P Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Dark_MadMax on December 24, 2011, 12:19:44 AM I just finished chapter1 of IA. IA story started great, then sorta fell off, then it gained traction again and culmination was almost epic. EXCEPT they dropped the ball. This was a story for single player game. But they squeezed it into MMO and result is predictable - it feels sour, fake and cheap. You are dropped back into your MMO and nothing epic which happened inside the story actually happened. In fact its even worse than that cause in order to cut cost and accommodate 2 radically different ending they chose to nick one completely. So like nothing ever happened. You still a lowly field agent cleaning other people boots.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Kageru on December 24, 2011, 12:45:55 AM The shortest summary I saw was, "Play it for the story, leave when it ends". I'm fairly sure they hope that's not a common sentiment. I suspect there'll be a lot of people happy to just live in the star wars world as long as there is any excuse to do so, but even so their retention is going to be the interesting thing. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: taolurker on December 24, 2011, 12:47:46 AM I only really got to play this during two beta stress test weekends, so I didn't really get into a great deal of depth with the game. I was mostly testing queues and servers, but I can say that I expected more. I posted something similar other places before, but I really want to like this game. I even thought there was some fun there, and definitely a draw to do the story, but it was the wrapper that made me not want to buy in.
The MMO stuff seems like it was tacked on, I see way too many things missing that are MMO conventions, and any gain it had from story it lost from how generic it felt (especially when I was a clone who had cloned companions). The cut-scenes were interesting, and I enjoy story sequences, but as an IA I got a mission where a cut-scene was an Alien talking Alienese with subtitles and a quest go recover my stolen item. So why did I need a cut scene where I read the text anyway. Really? I also read way too much of the forums regarding this game, and didn't really see any need to splurge for it at full cost. I can see some retention for alt-ing, but just don't think this will hook enough players for long term. SWG couldn't do it with Sim Beru and broken combat, and I don't see this doing it with scripted stories and quasi diku mechanics in a bad ui. I can't see them not having price drops, free trials or some kind of buddy key system within the first Qtr 2012. The shiny also wasn't the shiny I wanted from Bioware, and Mass Effect's graphics in a Star Wars game would've impressed me more (hell even KOTOR graphics with a generous bump). Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ratman_tf on December 24, 2011, 02:32:32 AM I got tired of the cutscene/dialogue gimmick after about 30 seconds. And it suffers from the Bioware "I chose what?" problem.
The game outside of the diaglogues and cutscenes is WoW in space, with a few wrinkles. The only reason I'm playing it is because I have some friends who are also. Without that, I'd have passed. I vote "Shiny and new" Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: 01101010 on December 24, 2011, 06:06:00 AM Ahhh smells like F13 in here now. Don't ever change you glorious bastards... :drill:
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Threash on December 24, 2011, 06:24:50 AM He's actually kinda right, having a cut scene and voice over for every single minor quest got old after a while. I actually preferred the DCUO method of having voice over for the main story quest and side quests were just text as normal.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Nevermore on December 24, 2011, 07:51:09 AM He's actually kinda right, having a cut scene and voice over for every single minor quest got old after a while. I actually preferred the DCUO method of having voice over for the main story quest and side quests were just text as normal. Hasn't gotten old for me yet at all. I suppose I'm the target audience though, since I eat up story and RPG elements in any game I play. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Paelos on December 24, 2011, 07:55:14 AM I love people talking to me about the story rather than reading it. I don't skip anything, even if it's a side quest. Half the fun of this game is making fun of their dialogue and your responses after you pick an option.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: 01101010 on December 24, 2011, 07:56:40 AM Good novel versus technical manual. YMMV.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Venkman on December 24, 2011, 08:11:16 AM I skip some of the side quest dialog; however, I find I'm listening more often than not. I'm kind of a softy for hard luck stories, and "side quest" is a very gray area in TOR. There's multi-phase side quests that are deeper than most other MMOs full quest lines. And some of the ones on Taris (post-sack Trantor, really) were pretty poignant.
If you like the grinding/MMO component, TOR is fine for that at least insofar as it's not-WoW and is a more interesting world than Rift (though I did enjoy that a lot for a few months). It's also a fantasy world that, to me, implies the absence of a grind of any kind. Nobody in the movies or books or whatever is grinding for cash or powers or anything. So, I have a feeling that it'll be a lot less fun to me once the grind starts (if it does). Which is why it'll probably suck if they nerf how fast credits can be made, or the xp curve. I'm pretty sure Luke leveled up regularly from A New Hope, through Empire and into Return of the Jedi. Most of his grind took place doing all those Dagobah dailies and between Empire and Jedi, though. :why_so_serious: Feh. Luke was a OP twink. /dejavu? Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: taolurker on December 24, 2011, 08:11:36 AM See, it wasn't the cut scene for everything that bothered me, it was seriously a totally different complaint.
The cut-scene was me reading subtitles. It wasn't that it just plain up should've been text, it's that it should've been him making his gibberish and a translator (be it protocol droid or idiot henchman) putting it into Basic/Human. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Rendakor on December 24, 2011, 08:28:56 AM I agree with tao; I skip almost all the alien "quest text" just because I don't need to hear something gibber at me; I read the subs then hit spacebar.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: 01101010 on December 24, 2011, 08:32:00 AM I agree with tao; I skip almost all the alien "quest text" just because I don't need to hear something gibber at me; I read the subs then hit spacebar. Same. Unless it is Hutt or some other speech I like hearing. And Luke was twinked out... had a legendary sabre from level 1 Jedi. Which is pretty much when the Emperor should have called bullshit on him. :D Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Rendakor on December 24, 2011, 08:39:35 AM The only ones I don't skip are the R2 style droids.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: March on December 26, 2011, 07:21:31 AM He's actually kinda right, having a cut scene and voice over for every single minor quest got old after a while. I actually preferred the DCUO method of having voice over for the main story quest and side quests were just text as normal. Am I a bad person for doing the snoopy dance whenever I see a simple mission terminal? In TOR, when I find a new quest hub I check my watch to determine if I have enough time to invest in just getting the quests; more than a few times, the answer has been no.If people think this is worth playing for the "story" then all I can say is the editor needs to be flogged; there are far too many useless conversations with meaningless dialogue choices to set-up perfectly mundane collection quests. What I like about the "story" is that the leveling experience has a fig-leaf of context for _why_ my counselor is on a particular planet, which is slightly different to the reason my Trooper is on the same planet. But really, that's just the Class quest; everything else is dross, and after the first 10 levels I honestly cannot associate the mission with the story... there are simply too many that are all basically the same. The best you could say about it is that the story and leveling experienced are shockingly well choreographed to the point that finishing the story seems to coincide with the level-up that ends the zone... it's similar to, but better than the revamped WoW 1-60 because it takes the initial ride seriously, rather than expediting to get to the real game. I say this not to pan TOR, but to offer what I find compelling. For me, there's a certain _fullness_ to my character - and here I'm not referring to the story, but to the fact that I don't have a pet but rather companions; I don't have a craft, but rather a small company; I don't have a house, but rather a spaceship that gives me experience and gold. None of these systems alone are particularly impressive, but taken together I find that I have an abundance of things to do that all support the basic goal of advancing my character. In the way these things are assembled, I think the sum is greater than the parts even (especially?) when compared to WoW. What I cannot foresee is whether this felicitous combination means anything once you hit cap. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Merusk on December 26, 2011, 07:27:17 AM Some people are a little more "A" than they previously thought.
ESAK or EAKS depending on my mood and I've been enjoying even the silly dialogues for tedium quests. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: apocrypha on December 26, 2011, 07:54:35 AM I went in fully expecting to skip VOs for minor quests, but I've found myself listening to them all. The only ones I skip are the subtitled alien language or droid ones, because why listen to beeps & clicks once I've read the text?
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: MuffinMan on December 26, 2011, 08:13:41 AM I'll never skip the droid sounds, it's one of my favorite things about Star Wars. If I ever get a droid companion that does the R2 "scream" when hit I will never stop playing this game.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Malakili on December 26, 2011, 08:45:11 AM It's a fantasy world we know, rather than Rift's generic fantasy world. I admit to getting a kick to seeing familiar places in game, mostly familiar from other Star Wars games at this point. It's a diku, with some tweaks. If you hate mmos, you'll hate it. If you love Star Wars, you'll love it. What if I hate MMOs and love Star Wars? :ye_gods: Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Morfiend on December 26, 2011, 11:07:53 AM It's a fantasy world we know, rather than Rift's generic fantasy world. I admit to getting a kick to seeing familiar places in game, mostly familiar from other Star Wars games at this point. It's a diku, with some tweaks. If you hate mmos, you'll hate it. If you love Star Wars, you'll love it. What if I hate MMOs and love Star Wars? :ye_gods: I know this wasnt a real question, but I will give it a real answer. You could very well enjoy this game if the above is true. With how instanced the game is, you do not have to interact much with other players, especially if you play on a PVE server. You would probably enjoy this game more hating mmos and loving star wars than you would loving mmos and hating star wars. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Malakili on December 26, 2011, 12:56:23 PM It's a fantasy world we know, rather than Rift's generic fantasy world. I admit to getting a kick to seeing familiar places in game, mostly familiar from other Star Wars games at this point. It's a diku, with some tweaks. If you hate mmos, you'll hate it. If you love Star Wars, you'll love it. What if I hate MMOs and love Star Wars? :ye_gods: I know this wasnt a real question, but I will give it a real answer. You could very well enjoy this game if the above is true. With how instanced the game is, you do not have to interact much with other players, especially if you play on a PVE server. You would probably enjoy this game more hating mmos and loving star wars than you would loving mmos and hating star wars. It was 1/2 serious. I'm a huge star wars fan, huge huge huge. But I can't stomach another DIKU, and Bioware's recent single player stuff has left me feeling cold as well. There have been times I've decided to buy this game, and then always backed out before doing it. The Star Wars pull is a very strong one, but I know I won't really actually like the game that much either way. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Simond on December 26, 2011, 01:32:39 PM The best description of SWTOR I've seen was on the SA forums. Loosely paraphrased it was along the lines of "The new things added to the genre by TOR are great, everything else about it is worse than WoW to a greater or lesser extent". And given that The Vision (tm) has already reared its ugly head (see: LFG tools), I suspect that at lease some of what people are seeing as sub-par is actually the dreaded Working As Intended
So I'm going to wait for the free trial. :grin: Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on December 26, 2011, 04:16:58 PM My favorite MMO ever this far into it, I will almost certainly be playing this as my main game for years.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Thrawn on December 26, 2011, 04:24:04 PM I'm a pretty big Star Wars fan, played a lot of WoW and a few other MMOs off and on and I am for sure on the side of "shiny and new". I'm not even 50 yet and I think I'm getting bored of the game, the farther I get into it and the more I see the less impressed I am.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: UnSub on December 26, 2011, 07:46:13 PM My favorite MMO ever this far into it, I will almost certainly be playing this as my main game for years. So in F13 speak, you might make it to the 6 month mark? :grin: Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Selby on December 26, 2011, 08:15:37 PM What if I hate MMOs and love Star Wars? :ye_gods: What about those of us who don't mind MMO's but can't stand Star Wars? ;-) Yes, it really is an honest question. I've got friends who are going nuts for this game solely for Star Wars and want me to play it, but I've never liked Star Wars much at all.Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: eldaec on December 26, 2011, 08:18:26 PM What if I hate MMOs and love Star Wars? :ye_gods: What about those of us who don't mind MMO's but can't stand Star Wars? ;-) Yes, it really is an honest question. I've got friends who are going nuts for this game solely for Star Wars and want me to play it, but I've never liked Star Wars much at all.Assume you mean dikus and not mmo games in general, then you should play rift instead. Except that you probably like your friends, meaning you should play swtor. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Trippy on December 26, 2011, 08:26:01 PM What if I hate MMOs and love Star Wars? :ye_gods: What about those of us who don't mind MMO's but can't stand Star Wars? ;-) Yes, it really is an honest question. I've got friends who are going nuts for this game solely for Star Wars and want me to play it, but I've never liked Star Wars much at all.Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Selby on December 26, 2011, 08:30:54 PM Do you like BioWare RPGs? To a degree, yes I do.Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on December 26, 2011, 08:36:02 PM My favorite MMO ever this far into it, I will almost certainly be playing this as my main game for years. So in F13 speak, you might make it to the 6 month mark? :grin: Nah, this is going to take WoW's place for me almost certainly, and other than a 6 month break I played that solidly since release. I came from DAOC though, it is the EQ/SWG crowd that is so fickle in their loyalties. :why_so_serious: Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ginaz on December 26, 2011, 08:46:37 PM My favorite MMO ever this far into it, I will almost certainly be playing this as my main game for years. Same here, I even subbed for 6 months. I can't see myself playing another MMO for the foreseeable future. I'll play GW2 but thats a no commitment type MMO. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Dark_MadMax on December 26, 2011, 11:59:49 PM Well I am getting bored of it already . Part of it is that story of my main was a major let down and left a very bitter after taste. Another part is that besides the story games doesnt really differ from any diku. Its nice to explore and play trough once, but I am just not the type to play those for years running endless gear treadmills...
So exploration aspect only thing keeping me playing. I hope BH story doesnt suck in same way and I still didnt explore a lot of game world even if it does, but once I am trough -I am trough. The thing which usually keeps me for a while is PvP, which is terribad in SWTOR from what can I see so far (world one is non existend and warzones in diku are always meeeeh) In any case its exactly what I expected and have no regrets, but if majority of population shares same sentiment long term subs for swtor will probably not pass 1 mill mark Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Lucas on December 27, 2011, 05:47:27 AM I'm enjoying it so far for the story and the SW universe; in time, I'll get more involved in the roleplaying community so I hope there will be something decent going on once certain RP hubs will be established; finally, while you need to add moar operations, moar flashpoints, moar end-level stuff to keep your playerbase, I desperately hope they will expand the game "horizontally" as well: new minigames (pazaak, pod races), social gear/clothes, ship customization (incoming), solo features and so on.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: ajax34i on December 27, 2011, 05:54:26 AM This is actually good news to me, because I liked how the Consular story started. The Jedi Knight story (the start) complements the Consular one, actually. I've played them one after the other and had a few "Oh, so that's what's happening" moments. They investigate different parts of what's going on. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: kildorn on December 27, 2011, 05:58:47 AM My favorite MMO ever this far into it, I will almost certainly be playing this as my main game for years. So in F13 speak, you might make it to the 6 month mark? :grin: Nah, this is going to take WoW's place for me almost certainly, and other than a 6 month break I played that solidly since release. I came from DAOC though, it is the EQ/SWG crowd that is so fickle in their loyalties. :why_so_serious: Just wait until SWTOR makes you level your pants. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: El Gallo on December 27, 2011, 06:32:03 AM What if I hate MMOs and love Star Wars? :ye_gods: What about those of us who don't mind MMO's but can't stand Star Wars? ;-) Yes, it really is an honest question. I've got friends who are going nuts for this game solely for Star Wars and want me to play it, but I've never liked Star Wars much at all.As a generic DIKU, it is vastly inferior to WoW or Rift. Seriously, it's like WoW re-envisioned by Smedley. I'd wait 6 months to see if they've added basic creature comforts like a UI that wasn't designed by a retarded 6-year old; a lfg tool (which may take longer since they'll need to fire the assholes running the team who think spamming "LF HEALS ESSELS PST" in the space station for 3 hours "builds community"; ability thinning and/or a Rift-style macro system to make the 73 abilities you'll be expected to use actually useable; and a quest-flow/world revamp so you don't spend 30% of your playtime (a) running back and forth through looooooooooong, empty, dead hallways in huge buildings (or vast stretches of generic land) back and forth to quest vendors, or (b) reclearing out of mini-dungeons you just cleared into because they almost never have easy exits near the end (or because the objectives keep you running back and forth to parts you cleared earlier but have since respawned). All this fail is worth it to me because I'm a huge sucker for Star Wars, DIKU, and Bioware games (if you're just in it for the latter, keep in mind that the story won't hold up to any real Bioware single player RPG just because there's so much generic collect-bear-asses crap in between the story parts to keep the rubes like me paying). Barring huge changes, I seriously can't imagine anybody playing this game for 6 months, but what do I know. There are still at least 100k people playing EQ1 I think. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Dark_MadMax on December 27, 2011, 07:18:05 AM As a generic DIKU, it is vastly inferior to WoW or Rift. Seriously, it's like WoW re-envisioned by Smedley. I'd wait 6 months to see if they've added basic creature comforts like a UI that wasn't designed by a retarded 6-year old; a lfg tool (which may take longer since they'll need to fire the assholes running the team who think spamming "LF HEALS ESSELS PST" in the space station for 3 hours "builds community"; ability thinning and/or a Rift-style macro system to make the 73 abilities you'll be expected to use actually useable; and a quest-flow/world revamp so you don't spend 30% of your playtime (a) running back and forth through looooooooooong, empty, dead hallways in huge buildings (or vast stretches of generic land) back and forth to quest vendors, or (b) reclearing out of mini-dungeons you just cleared into because they almost never have easy exits near the end (or because the objectives keep you running back and forth to parts you cleared earlier but have since respawned). Barring huge changes, I seriously can't imagine anybody playing this game for 6 months, but what do I know. There are still at least 100k people playing EQ1 I think. Man all the things you listed are nice to have , but honestly do they really define whether you stick with game or not? Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Xuri on December 27, 2011, 07:32:12 AM The devil is in the details.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: sam, an eggplant on December 27, 2011, 07:44:25 AM Man all the things you listed are nice to have , but honestly do they really define whether you stick with game or not? Of course. We're still in the honeymoon period, happily leveling away. In six months we'll all have multiple maximum-level characters. That's when retention mechanisms come into play.Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Draegan on December 27, 2011, 08:00:43 AM I skip some of the side quest dialog; however, I find I'm listening more often than not. I'm kind of a softy for hard luck stories, and "side quest" is a very gray area in TOR. There's multi-phase side quests that are deeper than most other MMOs full quest lines. And some of the ones on Taris (post-sack Trantor, really) were pretty poignant. I'm the same way. Last night, in the early AM, I just wanted to get to the completion of ACT 1 so I skipped the dialogue of a lot of the side quests. However the few hours leading up I listen to some and I skip some too. Depends on my mood. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ghambit on December 27, 2011, 08:46:00 AM As much as I dont like doing the bonus quests, I gotta say I did a really nice one the other day on Balmorra (in the droid zone). They START you with kill 10 foozles, but it ends up being a 3-linked chain of quests that lead up to killing a miniboss droid. The function of the entire chain was to draw the miniboss out. It was nicely done and the loot and xp were great. Made me not want to skip them anymore. Kinda wondered why they went through all that trouble for an optional bonus quest you only pop if you kill "x" mob, but it's nice to see them make the effort towards quest exploration.
The negative? You get over-leveled and sidetracked. But I digress: I find it interesting that people have been bringing up Rift a LOT both on this forum and the SWTOR one. It's almost like people are just now realizing how much better put together the Trion product is than BW's. Even though TOR is flat out more fun short term. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on December 27, 2011, 08:53:57 AM Didn't enjoy Rift at all, personally. /shrug
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Nebu on December 27, 2011, 09:03:22 AM But I digress: If find it interesting that people have been bringing up Rift a LOT both on this forum and the SWTOR one. It's almost like people are just now realizing how much better put together the Trion product is than BW's. Even though TOR is flat out more fun short term. Rift = better MMO from top to bottom in terms of design and mechanics. Lacked depth and soul. SWTOR = better game (as in fun to play). Wonder if it will have any staying power. I'll make it 3 months, but have doubts beyond that. Shame someone can't find a middle ground. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Threash on December 27, 2011, 09:06:23 AM But I digress: If find it interesting that people have been bringing up Rift a LOT both on this forum and the SWTOR one. It's almost like people are just now realizing how much better put together the Trion product is than BW's. Even though TOR is flat out more fun short term. Everyone realized what a well put together game Rift was from the beginning, it was just a bland boring extremely well polished game. This one isn't bland and boring but it most certainly isn't nearly as well put together as Rift was at launch or WoW with x years development. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Simond on December 27, 2011, 09:22:37 AM But I digress: If find it interesting that people have been bringing up Rift a LOT both on this forum and the SWTOR one. It's almost like people are just now realizing how much better put together the Trion product is than BW's. Even though TOR is flat out more fun short term. Rift = better MMO from top to bottom in terms of design and mechanics. Lacked depth and soul. SWTOR = better game (as in fun to play). Wonder if it will have any staying power. I'll make it 3 months, but have doubts beyond that. Shame someone can't find a middle ground. :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Merusk on December 27, 2011, 09:56:00 AM They burned all the Casual's goodwill pretty hardcore with Cata. It sounds like they'll be burning Hardcore's goodwill with "omg fucking pandas." ( :oh_i_see: ) I was tired of arguing with dipshits in guild and general about how Pandarans are older than most of their first erections.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Paelos on December 27, 2011, 09:57:41 AM They burned all the Casual's goodwill pretty hardcore with Cata. It sounds like they'll be burning Hardcore's goodwill with "omg fucking pandas." ( :oh_i_see: ) I was tired of arguing with dipshits in guild and general about how Pandarans are older than most of their first erections. While SWTOR is winning hearts and minds right now, the real battle will be fought in July. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: sam, an eggplant on December 27, 2011, 10:00:08 AM I was tired of arguing with dipshits in guild and general about how Pandarans are older than most of their first erections. So are alvin and the chipmunks, which incidentally have a very similar goofy feel to kung-fu pandas, and I wouldn't want them in my MMO either. It's all kiddie crap.Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Merusk on December 27, 2011, 10:01:14 AM :why_so_serious:
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: El Gallo on December 27, 2011, 12:59:01 PM They burned all the Casual's goodwill pretty hardcore with Cata. It sounds like they'll be burning Hardcore's goodwill with "omg fucking pandas." ( :oh_i_see: ) I was tired of arguing with dipshits in guild and general about how Pandarans are older than most of their first erections. It's now more casual friendly than it's ever been, even at the end of WotLK. Too bad it took them so many months to learn that lesson. I wonder if most of those casuals will go back to WoW for the next xpac or if they will leave the MMO scene entirely (they won't be in TOR unless its MMO elements get overhauled soon). Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sky on December 27, 2011, 01:38:37 PM Shit. I missed the election where we made you Spokesperson for casual mmo players.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: El Gallo on December 27, 2011, 01:43:19 PM Shit. I missed the election where we made you Spokesperson for casual mmo players. You need to watch more CNN -p Besides, I was replying to a post stating that Blizzard burned the goodwill of "all" casuals with their last expansion. You've been here more than long enough to know that we all speak for everybody in the world at all times, and in the most sweeping, overblown language possible. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sky on December 27, 2011, 01:45:16 PM :grin:
Double-plus fun for me as a casual who isn't a WoW player. It's like talking blues with guitarists who constantly talk about SRV. Hell, I should make a new version of the blues called the purples. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: El Gallo on December 27, 2011, 01:45:47 PM :grin: Double-plus fun for me as a casual who isn't a WoW player. It's like talking blues with guitarists who constantly talk about SRV. Hell, I should make a new version of the blues called the purples. We've officially gone too meta. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Surlyboi on December 27, 2011, 02:47:13 PM Not meta enough.
And nice reference, Sky. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ratman_tf on December 27, 2011, 03:32:59 PM After Uldum, I expect the Pandaren starter zone to just be one long Kung Fu Panda reference. Blizzard should be paying out royalties for this kind of shit. And try to get some of their humor back while they're at it.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Lucas on December 27, 2011, 03:51:35 PM Lum's impressions over at his blog (http://www.brokentoys.org/2011/12/20/my-life-with-the-jedi-kill-kult/) : "My Life With The Jedi Kill Kult"
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 27, 2011, 08:38:48 PM They burned all the Casual's goodwill pretty hardcore with Cata. It sounds like they'll be burning Hardcore's goodwill with "omg fucking pandas." ( :oh_i_see: ) I was tired of arguing with dipshits in guild and general about how Pandarans are older than most of their first erections. While SWTOR is winning hearts and minds right now, the real battle will be fought in July. Honestly, I think D3 is gonna be SWTOR's first real test. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Pezzle on December 27, 2011, 10:09:31 PM :grin: Double-plus fun for me as a casual who isn't a WoW player. It's like talking blues with guitarists who constantly talk about SRV. Hell, I should make a new version of the blues called the purples. Damn... Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Hawkbit on December 28, 2011, 04:06:20 PM I was pretty harsh on this during my short time in beta. I received it for Xmas, so I figured I'll just play it instead of taking it back. Loaded it up last night and played a bit today.
It's actually not terrible, and nowhere near as bad as my first impressions. I wish it did more to feel less mmorpg and more action oriented, but the story helps to fill the gaps in gameplay. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Phred on December 28, 2011, 05:40:02 PM But I can't stomach another DIKU, and Bioware's recent single player stuff has left me feeling cold as well. I think if you don't like diku and aren't into Bioware stuff lately asking if you'd like this game is self explanatory. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Rasix on December 28, 2011, 05:57:12 PM I don't feel the need to compulsively play this game. But, I do find myself enjoying it when I'm playing.
I have my gripes. There's too many group quests in the leveling content. Feels like old school WoW on steroids in that fashion. I'm OK with gating instance story content like that, but not in my leveling. Plus, there are waaaay too many abilities. I guess that's what you get with every class essentially being 2 classes. Rift did this shit too, fucking hell, there's no way I need these many different attacks. It has completely killed off my desire to play any more WoW. I'm leveling really slow, so it'll also be quite a long time before I hit cap and run into the social end game wall. There's a lot of content here for me. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Thrawn on December 28, 2011, 06:29:24 PM Canceled my sub already. I may play enough to hit max level still, but I don't forsee me adding on sub time when my 30 days or whatever is up unless something pretty major changes. All the shiny has worn off and the cracks are showing worse the more I play, feels exactly like WoW did when I quit already. Don't login to play a game and have fun, login to grind for the next carrot on a stick.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Miasma on December 28, 2011, 06:58:58 PM As I level more the mediocre mmo side of the game is really starting to interfere and ruin the enjoyable storyline and questing. I like exploring, I like the quests a lot, the voice acting but the core mmo systems aren't very good. I mean the bad UI, laughable lfg, weak class abilities/trees, pointless crafting, being forced to use the healing companion who I don't like, terrible economy, heroic areas etc.
I don't even bother trying to do the group quests anymore, I just collect them, untrack them and then abandon them all when I leave the planet so that I don't have to see the quest markers all over. I don't know what they were thinking putting in so many group only areas. General chat is 90% lfm/lfg spam that seems to go unanswered. In the end it was the combat that did me in though. It was always a little clunky but since it was something that had to be done to get the quests I overlooked it, it was fine so long as I was able to quickly and easily kill mobs. The combat definitely isn't enjoyable so there is no point in prolonging it but now in the 20's combat seems to be taking longer and longer and there is more of it. I can't overlook it anymore, it's in my face shitting on my fun. I've cancelled too, I'll come back in a year or two when they fix the mmo side of things. Additional random gripe: Lieutenants have way too much fucking health. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Soln on December 28, 2011, 08:03:57 PM I have a 60 day time card but I imagine I won't be on that much. My brother is playing, so I'm levelling up to be with him. But he is definitely not an MMO guy.
It's not a bad game, or a horrible MMO, but in the wake of WoW1.5 and Rift and LotRO and others, it needs more. And frankly I find the design confusing. The contradictions keep me from the fun. 1. For example, it's supposed to be about "your story" but all the quests are the same for everyone. How are they different if they are all 1. yes 2. maybe 3. refuse-quest? 2. There's supposed to be personalization, but for your character there's only 26? ugly preprogrammed faces that you have to use (but 36 beards!). 3. It's supposed to be epic, but you have to run forever and k10rats quests for everything. And there's even VO's for k10foozles quests, which is jarring when you're trying to follow the path of a Jedi or a tough BH... 4. It's supposed to pseudo-moral/personalized with light/dark points, but they are only for gear? W.T.F? I assume then those pts can be grinded, so it's just another kind of rep mechanic. 5. Where's the exploration, when it's all story rails and zones like CoX? No open world when it supposed to "SW"? 6. And for socialization, as noted elsewhere, there's no real LFG or LFD tool. The whole game for me to lvl 16 so far has been pretty empty except for seeing the occasional racer with an alt. 7. Finally, without any argument to back it, I find the art style horrible. WoW was cute and somehow made sense. LotRO is beautiful. This hurts my head and stomach, the same way the art did in EQ2. Something is broken, like it was in EQ2 with photorealistic animals in a fantasy setting. So I dunno. It's not bad, it's just I don't have the positive feedback loop to spend 50+ hrs in it to get to the fun or learn what I'm doing wrong. The game should tell me or carrot me to keep going when-its-fun and not just-a-grind-to-better-armor. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on December 29, 2011, 01:41:33 AM I don't feel the need to compulsively play this game. But, I do find myself enjoying it when I'm playing. I have my gripes. There's too many group quests in the leveling content. Feels like old school WoW on steroids in that fashion. I'm OK with gating instance story content like that, but not in my leveling. Plus, there are waaaay too many abilities. I guess that's what you get with every class essentially being 2 classes. Rift did this shit too, fucking hell, there's no way I need these many different attacks. It has completely killed off my desire to play any more WoW. I'm leveling really slow, so it'll also be quite a long time before I hit cap and run into the social end game wall. There's a lot of content here for me. None of those group quests in the leveling content are necessary from an XP curve standpoint or a story standpoint, they're as optional as it gets. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Cyrrex on December 29, 2011, 01:47:51 AM I don't feel the need to compulsively play this game. But, I do find myself enjoying it when I'm playing. I have my gripes. There's too many group quests in the leveling content. Feels like old school WoW on steroids in that fashion. I'm OK with gating instance story content like that, but not in my leveling. Plus, there are waaaay too many abilities. I guess that's what you get with every class essentially being 2 classes. Rift did this shit too, fucking hell, there's no way I need these many different attacks. It has completely killed off my desire to play any more WoW. I'm leveling really slow, so it'll also be quite a long time before I hit cap and run into the social end game wall. There's a lot of content here for me. None of those group quests in the leveling content are necessary from an XP curve standpoint or a story standpoint, they're as optional as it gets. This. I am a couple levels overleveled without having done practically any of the group stuff. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Wolf on December 29, 2011, 02:45:12 AM I like the game, but I only play it very casually. Also I'm a sucker for both bioware and star wars, so that helps. I was not liking my class story & mechanics much, so I switched from the Inquisitor to the Agent and I'm having much more fun. I didn't even get into the guild on the agent, I have general turned on in the second tab of the chat, so most of the time I'm just soloing stuff and when I get to a heroic quest I just poke my head in the 'other' tab and find a group, most of the time pretty easily. If I want to do a flashpoint I jump to the fleet and get a group together there. I do everything on my schedule and when it's convinient for me, which is a nice change :oh_i_see:
The MMO bit is just bad. The combat is clunky. You have way too much abilities, I've played enough games to clear my bar off of the abilities I don't use, but most newbies will have a very hard time reckognizing which abilities to use, and which they can dump. Cata talent trees do a very good job with that. The Sniper is sufficiently op, has a pretty decent shot priority that's starting to shape up and the energy mechanic is fun - that's going to keep me interested for at least 20 more levels. Long term - I don't see myself playing this after my pre-paid card runs out. It should be enough time to level my agent and one republic character to 50 and dip my toes in the end game to check it out. I did watch some raid encounter movies on youtube and they have a long way to go before they catch up to wow, and that's the endgame that interests me. edit: oh, and I got ~300k off of the slicing deal, so that should keep me decked out for the next couple of months :) Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Miasma on December 29, 2011, 08:40:28 AM I don't feel the need to compulsively play this game. But, I do find myself enjoying it when I'm playing. I have my gripes. There's too many group quests in the leveling content. Feels like old school WoW on steroids in that fashion. I'm OK with gating instance story content like that, but not in my leveling. Plus, there are waaaay too many abilities. I guess that's what you get with every class essentially being 2 classes. Rift did this shit too, fucking hell, there's no way I need these many different attacks. It has completely killed off my desire to play any more WoW. I'm leveling really slow, so it'll also be quite a long time before I hit cap and run into the social end game wall. There's a lot of content here for me. None of those group quests in the leveling content are necessary from an XP curve standpoint or a story standpoint, they're as optional as it gets. This. I am a couple levels overleveled without having done practically any of the group stuff. I did not get to see how that turned out because fuck heroic quests. This one was so far out of the way that I had never even seen it in the lfg/lfm spam, no one wanted to do it. I am planning on over levelling and coming back, that is my only recourse. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Threash on December 29, 2011, 08:43:30 AM I don't feel the need to compulsively play this game. But, I do find myself enjoying it when I'm playing. I have my gripes. There's too many group quests in the leveling content. Feels like old school WoW on steroids in that fashion. I'm OK with gating instance story content like that, but not in my leveling. Plus, there are waaaay too many abilities. I guess that's what you get with every class essentially being 2 classes. Rift did this shit too, fucking hell, there's no way I need these many different attacks. It has completely killed off my desire to play any more WoW. I'm leveling really slow, so it'll also be quite a long time before I hit cap and run into the social end game wall. There's a lot of content here for me. None of those group quests in the leveling content are necessary from an XP curve standpoint or a story standpoint, they're as optional as it gets. This. I am a couple levels overleveled without having done practically any of the group stuff. I did not get to see how that turned out because fuck heroic quests. This one was so far out of the way that I had never even seen it in the lfg/lfm spam, no one wanted to do it. I am planning on over levelling and coming back, that is my only recourse. The worst part about that quest is that it was split up by the choice you made, so even if people did it there was a 50% chance they were doing the one you wanted. Also, fuck emo droid. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Draegan on December 29, 2011, 08:49:58 AM I don't feel the need to compulsively play this game. But, I do find myself enjoying it when I'm playing. I have my gripes. There's too many group quests in the leveling content. Feels like old school WoW on steroids in that fashion. I'm OK with gating instance story content like that, but not in my leveling. Plus, there are waaaay too many abilities. I guess that's what you get with every class essentially being 2 classes. Rift did this shit too, fucking hell, there's no way I need these many different attacks. It has completely killed off my desire to play any more WoW. I'm leveling really slow, so it'll also be quite a long time before I hit cap and run into the social end game wall. There's a lot of content here for me. How are there too many group quests? Up through Taris (Empire) there have been like 2-6 per planet out of all the normal quests and none of them have to do with the story at all. Even on my Merc BH there aren't a lot of abilities I use. Even in RIFT there weren't a lot of abilities at all (as a Rogue). I think you're doing something wrong. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: kildorn on December 29, 2011, 09:19:56 AM Bonus series tend to have a bunch of group quests. What I see as the basic pattern is that an area (each planet being like, 3-5 "areas") has 1-2 heroics in them, leaning heavily on the "1" side. Heroics are completely irrelevant to the leveling experience, and if you do not plan on doing them just remove them from tracking so you don't accidentally keep picking it up when you go to the quest hubs.
They give nice rewards, and I'd love to just go sweep through a bunch of older ones some day just to flag the ones that give pretty orange outfits <3 Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Murgos on December 29, 2011, 09:33:27 AM I've found that you can do the heroic +2s pretty well at lvl +2/3 solo.
Personally, I think people are being overly critical of what are basically launch hiccups. LFG, coming soon. UI, coming soon. Economy, in progress. Etc... Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Thrawn on December 29, 2011, 09:44:53 AM I've found that you can do the heroic +2s pretty well at lvl +2/3 solo. Personally, I think people are being overly critical of what are basically launch hiccups. LFG, coming soon. UI, coming soon. Economy, in progress. Etc... The problem is "coming soon' in MMO's means 1month - Infinity. I could be 5 years before the UI gets updated. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sky on December 29, 2011, 09:50:45 AM Even on my Merc BH there aren't a lot of abilities I use. This. There are a lot of base class skills that just don't mesh with the AC, like Unload for my tank PT. I keep it on the fringes of my usable hotkeys, because I use it every now and again while soloing and there's that one mob out of melee range with just enough hps I don't feel like rapid shotting him down. Lots of stuff like that. I'm actually in the process of weeding out a couple other things and refining my rotation right now through practice on the champ mob Furi and I have been lightly farming. Good way to see how stuff plays out on a resistant mob without making a group suffer :)Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Threash on December 29, 2011, 10:00:46 AM Even weeding out stuff that was less than ideal my assassin has 2 and a half bars of abilities i use constantly at 36.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Draegan on December 29, 2011, 10:20:50 AM The higher up in levels the less abilities you use due to your talents weeding out some. I'm sure you're doing something wrong, or using abilities for the sake of using them.
I mean as a BH Merc, single target DPS is essentially 3-4 different abilities, with a few utilities on 1m+ cooldowns. It's the same with a lot of classes. Then when we have AOE it's another 3 or 4 abilities but they rarely mix with each other. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: kildorn on December 29, 2011, 11:00:32 AM I frequently use my two bars of shit on my scoundrel, with one extra bar of situational cooldowns (spacevanish, spaceevasion, spaceholyshitabossfight). But that may be due to having my DPS abilities, my AE abilities, and my healing abilities to deal with. As well as lacking a stealth bar system for my two constantly used but only from stealth abilities.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sky on December 29, 2011, 11:09:19 AM I'm generally opening with DFA if it's up, or explosive dart if it's not. Sometimes I just jet charge in and flame sweep.
But normal rotation is just rocket punch>rail shot>explosive dart>>flamethrower>flameburst/rapidshot (depending on heat, at least a few to debuff). Even with groups, I'm just changing out flame burst for flame sweep to hold aggro and prioritizing flamethrower a bit more if things line up. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: sam, an eggplant on December 29, 2011, 03:02:59 PM The problem is "coming soon' in MMO's means 1month - Infinity. I could be 5 years before the UI gets updated. In most MMOs, yeah. Trion has proven quite agile with Rift, although it won't save them in the end.Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: El Gallo on December 29, 2011, 07:04:34 PM I'm sure you're doing something wrong, or using abilities for the sake of using them. I'm sure he's right, because I have the same experience as him with the republic version of the class, as do lots of other people. The class has a lot of abilities that you only use to set up other abilities (the debilitate + super damage to debilitated opponents abilities come to mind) and several that you only use when certain procs go up. Multiple stuns/cc/interrupts (used all the time even in solo pve to set up backstabs) and various stealth skills. I use 2 full bars (~ through 5, with alt, ctrl-alt, and ctrl-alt-shift modifiers, the latter two via mouse buttons) and still click the sidebar for stuff like healpacks and taunts (to save companions, if I've respeced to tank I'll obviously move those to my main bars). Doable, but could definitely use some pruning. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Threash on December 29, 2011, 07:40:52 PM Yeah pretty much that. I listed every ability i use on the assassin thread, i already pruned the less than ideal ones like i said, none of the ones i have i can do without.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: rattran on December 30, 2011, 01:53:15 AM All my abilities, and I don't have a single interrupt. This is becoming a problem with champions and other boss types, as even elites seem to be becoming immune to electro-dart and knockback. If the eventual fate of bodyguard Merc to be a heal-bitch?
2 crosshealing mobs I just run away from now. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Azuredream on December 30, 2011, 02:23:04 AM Mercenaries don't get an interrupt? That's pretty lame.
On topic; it's definitely hitting fun chords for me, I find myself catching alt-itis even though I never usually contract that disease. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: kildorn on December 30, 2011, 07:01:34 AM All my abilities, and I don't have a single interrupt. This is becoming a problem with champions and other boss types, as even elites seem to be becoming immune to electro-dart and knockback. If the eventual fate of bodyguard Merc to be a heal-bitch? 2 crosshealing mobs I just run away from now. That sounds unfun. Gunslingers have the same issue (scoundrels get an interrupt, gunslingers get another damage button), which seems silly. Thankfully I didn't run into many stun immune elites on my leveling spree, but I did have a number of fights where I'd have cried myself to sleep if I couldn't interrupt even some of the shit they have. Freaking Sorc mobs man, freaking sorcs. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Zetor on December 30, 2011, 07:35:27 AM My favorite 'lol, interrupts' encounter so far was two silver elites in the last trooper act 3 mission. Both of them spammed their heal as soon as they could, and recast it immediately after you interrupted them... and as a tank I didn't have CC - or the dps to just burst one of them down. I eventually won by getting them both to 70% hp through area damage, then chaining all of my interrupts and stuns (+ Elara's pseudo-cc) together while swapping back and forth, giving me a 5-second window to gank one of them quick... was probably one of the more interesting solo fights as a tank.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Paroid on December 30, 2011, 07:41:24 AM That sounds unfun. Gunslingers have the same issue (scoundrels get an interrupt, gunslingers get another damage button), which seems silly. Gunslingers have an interrupt, it's called Distraction (Level 18) http://www.torhead.com/ability/8KL54XT They have other problems though, in my experience my IA Sniper is slightly less tough than a sodden tissue. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sjofn on December 30, 2011, 09:51:59 AM Fuck, yes, my gunslinger dies a lot.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Nebu on December 30, 2011, 11:19:36 AM Fuck, yes, my gunslinger dies a lot. If gunslinger is the sniper mirror, I feel your pain. I died a lot too, particularly to pairs of strong mobs or melee elites. Things got much better in my 40's when my class quest gave me a healer companion. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: sam, an eggplant on December 30, 2011, 11:44:13 AM Pairs of strongs and single elite encounters are tough on my tank BH with a healing companion, if I don't use any of my cooldowns. Those are just tough fights, period.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on December 30, 2011, 11:46:55 AM When I hit those solo with my Jedi guardian + healer I don't have a tremendous amount of trouble, but I have been pretty obsessive about making sure my armoring mods are always the best ones I can use (I'm a cybertech and have oranges in most slots now.)
Before I got the healer though, yeah, rough. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Reg on December 30, 2011, 01:11:37 PM Elites can be tough if I don't outlevel them by a level or two. The Sand Demon on Tattooine was the first time I had to send Vette back to the ship and bring Quinn on board for his healing. That's been the only fight I've needed him for so far though, thank God. Without Vette's DPS contributions fights take freaking forever. My Juggernaut seriously needs to think about dumping the Immortal spec for DPS. It's not like there's a shortage of tanks.
edit: grammar Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Zetor on December 30, 2011, 01:17:57 PM I agree with sam -- double strongs were probably the hardest for me as a tank-spec vanguard due to lack of CC and burst. Unlesss I focused and burst one down while staggering my stuns, they COULD kill me through Elara healing and my tanking cooldowns. It became a lot easier after I got the pve-only "I will hit you really hard every 45 seconds if you are stunned" ability, but getting a strong add in a pull with another strong + some half-dead mooks could end badly depending on their abilities.
Single elites and even champions (!) were not a problem, since I could just interrupt their big ability / heal, and whittle them down. There was one mission on Corellia where I had to solo TWO elites with a 20-second headstart (they were stunned for 20 sec, then woke up). Since vanguard burst doesn't really exist, I could only bring one of them to 20%ish by the time they woke up, and then it was a frantic cooldown fest to burn one and LOS the other long enough for Elara to heal me back up. Thankfully that fight had some gimmicks that I could abuse, along with plenty of LOS opportunities... Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: luckton on December 30, 2011, 01:19:43 PM http://r2-db.com/article-rss/21915/quesh-difficulty-needs-examined
Quote A few general notes on challenging fights. This article is originally from: www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=897709#edit897709One of the most important aspects of higher level fights against elites is to counter their special abilities. You are required to use your interrupting abilities (e.g. Distraction on the Imperial Agent) in these fights to prevent these enemies from gaining the upper hand. In the short term, stuns and ballistic attacks/knockback will also help, but your interrupt abilities have the added benefit of preventing the target from using their special abilities. Make sure your companion is properly equipped and that their signature abilities are enabled. For example, if you rely on your companion to take the brunt of the beating in a fight, make sure their 'defensive stance' is activated. Turn off their area of effect abilities when you're fighting single enemies - they are not efficient for these fights. You can enable/disable abilities by opening your companion panel (~ by default) and right clicking the ability. The green indicator on an ability tells you if a companion will consider the ability for use in their AI rotation. Do not underestimate the benefit of stims and relics as short term efforts to turn the tide. Same goes for your 20 minute 'heroic moment' ability (the one that only works with your companion and triggers the music). This sounds obvious, but make sure that your skill points (k) are distributed and that you've trained primary your abilities to level. Finally, if all else fails, gaining additional equipment, levels or bringing a friend along to help with a challenging fight can be used to overcome temporary blocks. However, be advised that if you run into constantly very challenging fights, it is a good indication that your equipment might need updating. All these notes aside, we are looking at difficulty issues constantly. If we find a trend that indicate a certain fight is broken or a specific advanced class has issues, we will act accordingly. If you want to provide additional insights, such as your character's spec, your approach to combat, your companion or a particular fight you would like us to look at, please feel free to do so in this thread. regards George Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sjofn on December 30, 2011, 01:30:59 PM Fuck, yes, my gunslinger dies a lot. If gunslinger is the sniper mirror, I feel your pain. I died a lot too, particularly to pairs of strong mobs or melee elites. Things got much better in my 40's when my class quest gave me a healer companion. It is indeed the mirror, and it has convinced me to make sure my IA is an operative, even though I think meleeing on that class is stupid. Gunslingers get their healer really late as well, I think it's their fifth companion. Bleh! That's probably my biggest complaint about the companions, actually, the rate you get them and the order you get them varies wildly between classes, and some classes, in my opinion, are totally fucked by this. The jedi knights should not have to wait as long as they do for a healer, the sith assassins definitely should not have to wait for as long as THEY do for a healer, etc. Basically if a class can tank, I feel like the healer should be the first or second companion, the end. Healer specs can manage with basically anyone from what I've seen so far, but a tank with no healer is just sort of depressing. And the rate of getting them could stand to be more even, it feels like a thousand years before you get your second person for a lot of classes, and that's kinda lame, especially if you don't especially like your first companion. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: sam, an eggplant on December 30, 2011, 01:33:21 PM It became a lot easier after I got the pve-only "I will hit you really hard every 45 seconds if you are stunned" ability, Is that right? Since it does less damage against strongs, doesn't work at all against elites, and only works on stunned enemies, I figured it was a PvP ability and didn't even bother putting it on my bars. Does it really work so well against strongs that it's worth hotkeying to use after my 1 minute cooldown stun?Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Threash on December 30, 2011, 01:45:25 PM The assassin version did not even work at all in pvp.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Zetor on December 30, 2011, 01:49:18 PM It became a lot easier after I got the pve-only "I will hit you really hard every 45 seconds if you are stunned" ability, Is that right? Since it does less damage against strongs, doesn't work at all against elites, and only works on stunned enemies, I figured it was a PvP ability and didn't even bother putting it on my bars. Does it really work so well against strongs that it's worth hotkeying to use after my 1 minute cooldown stun?Edit: I used it more after I got my AOE 2.5 second stun at level 46... since I was using those to slow down incoming damage / AOE interrupt stuff, it was nice to gain a chunk of free damage afterward. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Merusk on December 30, 2011, 01:50:13 PM http://r2-db.com/article-rss/21915/quesh-difficulty-needs-examined Quote Do not underestimate the benefit of stims and relics as short term efforts to turn the tide. Same goes for your 20 minute 'heroic moment' ability (the one that only works with your companion and triggers the music). I don't know about other classes, but the BH "Heroic Moment" ability is stupidly useless and doesn't help in the fights being discussed. It resets electro dart and heals you 2% every 3s for 1 min. Sure, a nice heal but you also have Kolto Overload which does more healing over less time and doesn't keep you up vs 2 strong DPSers beating on your ass, even if Mako is doing her damnest to heal you. Less healing over a longer time isn't going to help either. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on December 30, 2011, 01:51:02 PM Any reason you can't stack them though?
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Zetor on December 30, 2011, 01:52:33 PM Every class gets the same ability (slow hp regen for 1 min + reset on your stun). I used that ability very rarely, usually just to get a second stun off on a strong enemy in an emergency or if I was completely out of interrupts and that ability had to be interrupted *right now*. The slow regen actually saved me once on a very tough pull that I survived with about 30 hp and my healing companion dead.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Merusk on December 30, 2011, 01:55:36 PM Any reason you can't stack them though? You can, but fighting 3 strongs as a tank takes a hell of a lot longer than 15s. Fighting the Republic adrenal troops on Quesh, Strong mobs singly I'd find myself down around 20-25% health after every fight as it was. Two or - in some cases - 3 and one of them a healer? You're fucked. I just waited on respawns. It makes sense from a story perspective - after all tehy're all hopped-up on 'non-addictive stims' ( :awesome_for_real:) - but from a playability perspective I decided to just do my class quest then fuck off to do bonus stuff on another planet until I'm 37 instead. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on December 30, 2011, 02:11:44 PM Every class gets the same ability (slow hp regen for 1 min + reset on your stun). I used that ability very rarely, usually just to get a second stun off on a strong enemy in an emergency or if I was completely out of interrupts and that ability had to be interrupted *right now*. The slow regen actually saved me once on a very tough pull that I survived with about 30 hp and my healing companion dead. Mine doesn't reset my stun, it resets one of my tanking cooldowns. It is really very handy. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: eldaec on December 30, 2011, 02:55:43 PM Basically if a class can tank, I feel like the healer should be the first or second companion, the end. I think the bigger issue is how damn long it takes to get any of your companions. All five should be available by tatooine or maybe alderaan. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sjofn on December 30, 2011, 03:08:17 PM That would work too, I do think it's silly that I'm level 40 and I still have two more companions to get. But I think it would bug me less if my early companions were most useful to me. And also if they were not Corso Riggs.
EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: tmp on December 30, 2011, 03:22:44 PM EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me. I imagine he may be your punishment for not minding Carth? :grin:Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: CmdrSlack on December 30, 2011, 03:39:51 PM That would work too, I do think it's silly that I'm level 40 and I still have two more companions to get. But I think it would bug me less if my early companions were most useful to me. And also if they were not Corso Riggs. EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me. I see the name Riggs and I am forced to wonder whether he says, "I'm getting too old for this." Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sjofn on December 30, 2011, 04:31:58 PM EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me. I imagine he may be your punishment for not minding Carth? :grin:Well, it's not like I liked Carth. But yeah, it feels like Bioware went "Sjofn tolerated Carth, we can do better than that. We can make a character she hates, dammit!" Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on December 30, 2011, 04:32:58 PM I blame the fact that their writers were subjected to being around Texans.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Der Helm on December 30, 2011, 05:11:34 PM That would work too, I do think it's silly that I'm level 40 and I still have two more companions to get. But I think it would bug me less if my early companions were most useful to me. And also if they were not Corso Riggs. EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me. I see the name Riggs and I am forced to wonder whether he says, "I'm getting too old for this." That would be Murtaugh. :grin: Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: eldaec on December 30, 2011, 05:15:23 PM I started a smuggler the other day, and hated Corso Riggs by the end of the intro cinematic.
I'm not sure if it was just the pre-conditioning in this thread, but felt pretty real. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: CmdrSlack on December 30, 2011, 07:11:02 PM That would work too, I do think it's silly that I'm level 40 and I still have two more companions to get. But I think it would bug me less if my early companions were most useful to me. And also if they were not Corso Riggs. EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me. I see the name Riggs and I am forced to wonder whether he says, "I'm getting too old for this." That would be Murtaugh. :grin: Well played, sir. I suspected that I was transposing the names, but it was very Lethal Weapon, and I was too lazy to Google-check my reference first. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Xanthippe on January 03, 2012, 07:34:46 AM I haven't yet picked this up. I was going to wait until 2 or 3 months pass to see if people are still playing.
Any predictions on how long you'll be playing this? Is this a game where people can level having fun without grouping? Are instances skippable, or alternately is it easy to find groups? Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Samprimary on January 03, 2012, 07:51:54 AM I haven't yet picked this up. I was going to wait until 2 or 3 months pass to see if people are still playing. Any predictions on how long you'll be playing this? Is this a game where people can level having fun without grouping? Are instances skippable, or alternately is it easy to find groups? It's pretty cool. It's new and has plenty of kinks that need to be ironed out, but it's certainly good enough for now, and offers hope in the competence of the game's future expansion, improvement, etc. That alone has been something unaccomplished since WoW. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: jakonovski on January 03, 2012, 08:27:00 AM SWTOR is great fun but I hesitate calling it an MMO. Everything is divided into tiny instances of about 150 people, so the areas are deserted and you don't get the feeling or actuality of shared space. It plays pretty much like a mix of single player RPG and Guild Wars.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: DraconianOne on January 03, 2012, 08:28:28 AM Is this a game where people can level having fun without grouping? Are instances skippable, or alternately is it easy to find groups? Yes, absolutely. But - and bear in mind I'm an inveterate soloer who has never grouped nor ever done MMO instances while they were level appropriate - they have managed to make grouping fun and appealing. So much so that I'm actively seeking people (guildies) out to group with, even while just questing because I personally love the whole dialogue and shared conversation gimmick. The first couple of instances are easily completed by two players with companions as well which is a bonus. Still, if you're determined to solo, you can get good gear/mods from commendation vendors with commendations (badges) that you get from regular solo questing. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Khaldun on January 03, 2012, 08:34:49 AM I started a smuggler the other day, and hated Corso Riggs by the end of the intro cinematic. I'm not sure if it was just the pre-conditioning in this thread, but felt pretty real. You get some amusing chances to insult Corso Riggs during dialogue scenes if he's your companion most of the time. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Miasma on January 03, 2012, 08:37:54 AM I haven't yet picked this up. I was going to wait until 2 or 3 months pass to see if people are still playing. You don't have to group but there are group only areas on every planet which you will get quests for and you will probably have to abandon or outlevel them. Even with everyone still playing in the lower level areas it can be hard to get groups to do those quests. There is no group making tool for the instances so you have to spam lfg/lfm while you idle in a station, we're not allowed to talk about this for some reason even though it's a major topic for debate.Any predictions on how long you'll be playing this? Is this a game where people can level having fun without grouping? Are instances skippable, or alternately is it easy to find groups? If you want to solo you may as well wait while they smooth some things out, maybe even a free trial. If you wanted to group I would start playing now while the lower level planets have good populations, once everyone reaches 50 it will be much, much harder to find groups. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Mrbloodworth on January 03, 2012, 08:40:00 AM If you are soloing, you don't need groups. Doing all the heroics and flashpoints will put you well over level anyway. Like my main, hes a planet over level ( and ahead of story ) because I duo/trio all the group content.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Rasix on January 03, 2012, 08:44:57 AM I haven't yet picked this up. I was going to wait until 2 or 3 months pass to see if people are still playing. Any predictions on how long you'll be playing this? Is this a game where people can level having fun without grouping? Are instances skippable, or alternately is it easy to find groups? I've yet to do an instance. I'm having fun. I've grouped a whole to two times, both with f13ers, and it was a good experience as expected. The group conversation thing was quite funny with my heart-of-gold BH and Xuri's arrogant Sith. I think I'll get about 3-4 months out of this. I'll probably go through Empire story line once or twice and maybe the same for Repub. I'm leveling really slow and continuing my LoL habit. I have a very limited amount of game time and these two are stretching it beyond what I'd like. So, that 3-4 months could last however long my content consumption takes. I've had this game since the first or second day of the early start and I'm a hair away from lvl 22. Most guild members are mid 30s + it seems like. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Bunk on January 03, 2012, 08:48:18 AM Is this a game where people can level having fun without grouping? Are instances skippable, or alternately is it easy to find groups? Well, my main is now level 26, and I have done one Flashpoint with F13 folks, one random pug that I got invited in to, and one group run to complete some quests. None of that was neccessary. The grouping stuff is certainly fun, but totally skippable. I've actually found that I'm almost overleveling content as is, just playing solo and doing space missions. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Nebu on January 03, 2012, 08:49:31 AM I leveled to 50 doing almost nothing beyond my class quest, pvp, flashpoints, and space missions. I'm fine with not gathering 10 space rat tails for people.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Wolf on January 03, 2012, 08:49:41 AM Is this a game where people can level having fun without grouping? Are instances skippable, or alternately is it easy to find groups? Still, if you're determined to solo, you can get good gear/mods from commendation vendors with commendations (badges) that you get from regular solo questing.I don't think that's mentioned enough - there are quite a bit of "orange" pieces of gear, these have 3 standard sockets, so if you like the look of some chest piece or legs, or a weapon, you don't have to change it when you have a new better piece of loot. You just take the mods out of the sockets of the new piece and stick them in the new one. So far I haven't had to look like I clown just because my new chest has +3 something. I do wish I could turn off my companion's head piece though :( Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: 01101010 on January 03, 2012, 10:55:57 AM I don't think that's mentioned enough - there are quite a bit of "orange" pieces of gear, these have 3 standard sockets, so if you like the look of some chest piece or legs, or a weapon, you don't have to change it when you have a new better piece of loot. You just take the mods out of the sockets of the new piece and stick them in the new one. So far I haven't had to look like I clown just because my new chest has +3 something. I do wish I could turn off my companion's head piece though :( Exactly. Cybertech is a nice way to go - find ANY orange piece and make it into whatever you want as long as you can wear the type (H/M/L). Hell I found a nice strength medium armor helm and through it on Zenith after I modded it out with cunning stuff. Of course, I never use him so there is that... Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Miasma on January 03, 2012, 11:06:43 AM I accidentaly stumbled into the "VIP" lounge and was excited to see that my sith warrior could buy a full set of orange gear that made him look just like an imperial stormtrooper. Then was crushed to discover that for some absurd reason it was all classified as light armor...
I saw an agent wandering around in all officer clothing and wondered how she did it, now I know. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sky on January 03, 2012, 11:33:53 AM My favorite moment so far was doing the FP with BC recently where in a cutscene my big, dumb BH is the one who steps up to use the computer. ME PUSH BUTTAN!
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: ajax34i on January 03, 2012, 11:46:19 AM If it's orange it probably doesn't matter whether it's light, medium, or heavy. I haven't done it so I don't know, but take all the mods out of a light armor and out of a heavy armor piece and the difference will probably be minimal. You get most of your defenses from your primary stat, and then armoring mods, anyway.
So, go ahead and wear it. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Nebu on January 03, 2012, 11:48:31 AM It's all going to replaced by purple eventually.
I wish this game had an appearance tab... and a way to quickly swap pvp and pve gear... and a way to play more than one spec... and a way to customize my ship... and... Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: kildorn on January 03, 2012, 12:03:59 PM If it's orange it probably doesn't matter whether it's light, medium, or heavy. I haven't done it so I don't know, but take all the mods out of a light armor and out of a heavy armor piece and the difference will probably be minimal. You get most of your defenses from your primary stat, and then armoring mods, anyway. So, go ahead and wear it. The armor difference between a rating X mod slotted in light versus heavy should be.. massive. Like, double the armor on the heavy piece. I would not suggest running around in light armor and tanking shit unless you're a shadow/assassin. Orange just lets you change the level of an item, not it's core item type. The VIP stuff is "light" because it's intended to be wearable by anyone as random social clothing. Not an armor replacement. Light armor classes can just use them as such because *blah no real reason* Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: ajax34i on January 03, 2012, 12:08:21 PM Ok so I am going to unslot a heavy robe on my Guardian and a light robe on my Seer and compare. Same level.
I thought you were wrong, Kildorn, because everyone keeps saying that Guardians (heavy armor) and Shadows (light armor) tanks end up having the same defense, are equivalent, both good at tanking, blah blah blah. So I assumed that the AC comes from the stance, from the primary stat effects, and from mods. But, I'll check. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: proudft on January 03, 2012, 12:10:24 PM Please do, I want to wear Pilot's armor on my trooper. :heart:
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: 01101010 on January 03, 2012, 12:13:08 PM If it's orange it probably doesn't matter whether it's light, medium, or heavy. I haven't done it so I don't know, but take all the mods out of a light armor and out of a heavy armor piece and the difference will probably be minimal. You get most of your defenses from your primary stat, and then armoring mods, anyway. So, go ahead and wear it. The armor difference between a rating X mod slotted in light versus heavy should be.. massive. Like, double the armor on the heavy piece. I would not suggest running around in light armor and tanking shit unless you're a shadow/assassin. Orange just lets you change the level of an item, not it's core item type. The VIP stuff is "light" because it's intended to be wearable by anyone as random social clothing. Not an armor replacement. Light armor classes can just use them as such because *blah no real reason* Main issue here is the armor's inherent type. I have found a ton of bad ass jedi knight gear that I want to wear. Oranges are restricted to Heavy only so I can't wear. Since this limits light armor users, I sincerely think they would put in some sort of AC modifer for medium and heavy armor pieces just to kepe you scurvy bastards off my only selections - though tanking in the dancer gear you get from the security vendor would be appealing. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on January 03, 2012, 12:14:48 PM Ok so I am going to unslot a heavy robe on my Guardian and a light robe on my Seer and compare. Same level. I thought you were wrong, Kildorn, because everyone keeps saying that Guardians (heavy armor) and Shadows (light armor) tanks end up having the same defense, are equivalent, both good at tanking, blah blah blah. So I assumed that the AC comes from the stance, from the primary stat effects, and from mods. But, I'll check. Shadow's tanking stance gives them a 150% armor boost; Guardians get 60%. So that should give you an idea of the difference in base numbers between light and heavy. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sky on January 03, 2012, 12:34:47 PM I wish this game had an appearance tab... and a way to quickly swap pvp and pve gear... and a way to play more than one spec... and a way to customize my ship... and... Do not let your longing for what is not hamper your enjoyment of what is.Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Merusk on January 03, 2012, 12:42:10 PM Main issue here is the armor's inherent type. I have found a ton of bad ass jedi knight gear that I want to wear. Oranges are restricted to Heavy only so I can't wear. Since this limits light armor users, I sincerely think they would put in some sort of AC modifer for medium and heavy armor pieces just to kepe you scurvy bastards off my only selections - though tanking in the dancer gear you get from the security vendor would be appealing. Yep. The system doesn't appear to take the over-all average of the mods into account for stats, only specific ones for specific types of equipment. An armor mod in a Heavy armor piece gets a much greater boost than the same mod in a light piece. Just like the level of that mod affects the over-all armor much more than the other 2 slots. (Same with barrel level for blasters) I had a level 30 green enhancment on my boots which I upgraded to a blue 40 and there were no additional armor benefits. Side note: My healbot Mako now wears the Imperial dancer's outfit (minus the hat.) It amuses me to no end. Though I am jealous of the much-skimpier Republic outfit on their sec. key vendor. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Bunk on January 03, 2012, 01:11:41 PM Yea, it turns out that with a good mod, Vette in the Dancer's top actually had a better armor rating than the green medium armor I had her in previously. Mind you, if I do my job right she never gets attacked anyway.
One of the reasons I started a second character was just so that I could take armormech, as I found that finding armor upgrades for companions with different core stats was not all that easy. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on January 03, 2012, 01:12:48 PM I expect to get a lot of hours of play out of just getting all my companions kitted out just right.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sjofn on January 03, 2012, 01:13:12 PM I started a smuggler the other day, and hated Corso Riggs by the end of the intro cinematic. I'm not sure if it was just the pre-conditioning in this thread, but felt pretty real. I only just noticed that post! Glad to have helped! :why_so_serious: As other people have said, it's entirely possible to level to cap without missing much. But duoing has been a (surprisingly) fun experience. Most quests let everyone in the group click on the gathering-type clickies, most quest drop thingies drop for everyone, that sort of shit, so you're never thinking to yourself, "God, this would be faster solo," like one often does.You even get bonus XP on quest completion for things you did in a group, to make up for the lesser kill XP. Add in that the conversations are a lot more amusing with friends, and you have just about the best duoing experience in an MMO I've had. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ghambit on January 05, 2012, 10:56:07 AM I saw an agent wandering around in all officer clothing and wondered how she did it, now I know. The officer's clothing is a commendation purchase from Drommand Kaas I believe. I've found nothing better ingame so far lookwise than it and I've caught many a people stopping to look. But, FML it's been expensive swapping mods every few levels. I like how it subtly changes over time depending on the mods too. (errr, maybe I'm seeing things) Mainly, it just fits the storyline better than flirting in something like a Panther (grenadier) jacket. My IA looks the part in it basically. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: kildorn on January 05, 2012, 11:03:52 AM I expect to get a lot of hours of play out of just getting all my companions kitted out just right. Can we need for companions in raids? Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on January 05, 2012, 11:04:40 AM But, FML it's been expensive swapping mods every few levels. How so? Are you pulling out the old ones and saving them for some reason? Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Nevermore on January 05, 2012, 11:19:41 AM So I noticed that one of the titles you can get on empire side is "the Merciless". I am now sorely tempted to make a Sorcerer with a fu manchu mustache named Ming.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ghambit on January 05, 2012, 11:33:37 AM But, FML it's been expensive swapping mods every few levels. How so? Are you pulling out the old ones and saving them for some reason? I'm a Cybertech. So it depends on the lvl mod/armoring I guess... but most stuff gets reverse-engineered so I dont have to farm mats as much and waste salvage mission money. Worked in early game, but as you say... counterintuitive at this point since the costs of removal are now too high. Also, if you get one piece you rip stats off of to replace for another, the latter sometimes has better stats than something else, so you take those and apply em to another piece... and so on. Time to be more frugal with em. Probably cheaper to use the AH anyways now. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on January 05, 2012, 11:39:47 AM I'm also a cybertech, if you take scavenging you should be swimming in mats anyway - I capped the trade skill well before 50 (and without ever buying mats). I just overwrite everything when I upgrade.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: kildorn on January 05, 2012, 11:40:57 AM I'm a cybertech, and never had any desire to rip mods out. I usually had a set of blues waiting for me at the end of a level range post 30 (once I had enough companions to keep them making things)
I buy the enhancements and most of the mods honestly. 2 commendations per makes gearing at the end of a planet cheap. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Miasma on January 05, 2012, 12:46:10 PM Yeah once you have enough orange gear you should just buy commendation mods and overwrite the old ones without bothering to take them out. IIRC the more important ones like armoring/hilt/barrel cost 7 commendations so I usually just buy those off the GTN if they are cheap.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sky on January 05, 2012, 01:24:14 PM Commendations mods are blue :oh_i_see:
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on January 05, 2012, 01:32:44 PM And? Tell me you aren't going to a bunch of effort trying to slot purple mods in leveling gear, I cannot imagine a bigger waste of time and money. OK, I can. But you still shouldn't do that!
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: kildorn on January 05, 2012, 01:41:38 PM Commendations mods are blue :oh_i_see: By the time you can make a full set of epic armor pieces, you should have outleveled them imo. I had a set of epics waiting for me at 49, but beyond that I used nothing but blue armor mods. (also, daily token armor mods are purple) Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Wolf on January 05, 2012, 01:43:06 PM I buy a purple barrel after every planet, for some reason the cunning ones are cheap (I guess everyone plays a bh?) and it's an insane upgrade.
Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Sky on January 05, 2012, 03:33:07 PM And? Tell me you aren't going to a bunch of effort trying to slot purple mods in leveling gear, I cannot imagine a bigger waste of time and money. OK, I can. But you still shouldn't do that! Up until 41, purples were fairly easy to RE in a timely fashion. I didn't go nuts and kit Mako in purples, but I did kit her in blues. I now have two blue pieces of armor because I can't seem to get an RE for them, and they're still slightly better than I had mods in orange. And my chest would be better if I could RE the purple schem for that, too.But really, it's been almost no effort to stay in purples and keep mako in blues while leveling. Armormech has always been way ahead of what I can actually use, I had it maxed at level 42, iirc. I don't do daily token things or shop the GTN, guess I'm not programmed from wow :p I can do crew skills while I'm questing, couldn't be easier, really. Title: Re: So, is it fun or just shiny and new? Post by: Ingmar on January 05, 2012, 03:47:02 PM The daily token things are at 50.
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