f13.net

Sure, if you've gone bargain bin diving over the last decade, you've probably seen the "Prison Tycoon" series amongst all the other shovel-ware out there.

This is not that game.

This is Prison Architect.  From the good people that brought you Defcon, Darwinia and Uplink.

And as a person who works in the industry that this new game is modeling, and watching the following leaked trailer, I need this game, like, NOW.

http://www.introversion.co.uk/prisonarchitect/3612ghdn3id7nawn38dh/

A little more info

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/25/prison-architect-preview/

If you purchased the Humble Introversion Bundle and tried the Voxel tech demo, there's a block with Prison Architect on it. I was wondering what that was.

I'm sad that they've ditched their last idea. After using the City Generator it seems like the game would have been a lot of fun.

They did an interview on this with RockPaperShotgun a few months ago. Basically, Subversion was tech-driven and it was hard to find the fun. The fun wasn't emerging from the systems they were creating.

So they ditched the original premise and turned things around; instead of you infiltrating/escaping from a computer-generated building, you configure the building and try to prevent infiltrations/escapes. You get to use the same tools they used to design levels for Subversion, with door physics and electrical systems and whatnot, you're just designing how to use them instead of trying to defeat them.

Sounds solid to me.

Disclaimer: Massive introversion fanboy here.  :awesome_for_real:

Didn't know that, I'll have to read the article. I am satisfied then and would be happy with almost anything these guys put out.

They seem to be releasing a bunch of source code, maybe they will release it.  *dreams of massive PG city in Skyrim*

They release the source for all of their games after a few years. If there's any of it in Prison Architect, it'll probably get out eventually. If they go back to Subversion later, which they've stated they may do after Prison Architect, then it too should have its source eventually shipped.

In time for TESVI: Return of the JediDwemer, possibly.

"Prison Architect" does not sound like a game I would be that interested in... but dear God, do I want that game.  It looks not unlike Dwarf Fortress with an actual UI.

I want this, but I'm also waiting for DF with an actual UI.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

I'm not. If someone absolutely ripped him off, gave him zero credit, and called it Fuck You Tarn Adams - I'd give them my moneys happily.

That's basically what's going to need to happen, I think.  I'd say it'd serve him right, but I honestly think he's too detached from reality to care.

Yes please.

Take the initiative and print money.

What does rip him off mean?  Reverse engineer?

Yeah, it's not like the awesomeness of DF is in the concept -- it's in the ridiculously meticulous and complex (and presumably concealed-under-the-hood) execution. That part's not so easy to rip off outside of somehow getting access to the code.

I don't know if I buy that....  I think the awesomeness is in the concept.  Its just that the concept, on top of being a normal "sims" sort of game, takes things down to a very very small detailed level.  Nobody has really tried to emulate that (to the level he has).  But I'm pretty sure that a small team of decently funded devs could make an amazing full featured version of the game that would blow everything he's ever done out of the water.

Yeah, it's pretty much a "mere matter of code" problem.  Nothing that he's done is really cutting-edge in terms of algorithmic complexity or anything like that.  It's just that he's obsessive enough to think of all these nifty little systems and then spend the time to implement them.

I believe we already have a Dwarf Fortress thread, gentlemen  :oh_i_see:

Well, I'll take your word for it, but the world generation geography stuff seems far, far beyond anything else I've seen in a game. Then again, randomly generated worlds don't seem to feature in that many game genres anymore.

Well, someone already started to do it with goblin camp (http://www.goblincamp.com/). The problem is they are sticking with ascii when they desperately need sprites.

Trying to figure out of this Wheeler72 guy is some kind of bot or not.  His posts dont seem to be advertising anything, and are somewhat on topic for every thread he has posted in, but at the same time, dont really scan well when you read them.  Almost like it is doing a random scrape for information about the game the thread is discussing and makeing an almost coherent post about it.

That's because it's a bot, in this case scraping this RPS article's (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/11/30/hands-on-with-prison-architect/#more-84226) first two paragraphs.

In this case are you suggesting the poster is in fact the writer of said article, or a plagiarist shill for the company?


If it's the latter, then this should be fun.

I'm getting Theme Hospital vibes, that's a good thing.

Probably the latter. From India no less!

Art blog on the evolution of design in this game. (http://ryansumo.blogspot.com/2012/01/on-introversion-and-prison-architect.html)

Also...

"If Valve aren’t launching your game you really have to ask yourself why." (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/02/16/introversion-if-valve-arent-releasing-your-game-you-have-to-ask-yourself-why/)


 :drill:

I'm still a little fuzzy on what a prison architect actually does.

And how that's a game.

Dwarf Fortress, Prison Edition.

 :oh_i_see:

I get that.  But to what end ?

Dwarf fortress;  awesome fortress, fighting with monsters, delving deep, building cash and resources, artifacts, monsters, etc, etc, etc.

Prison Architect;  Make a prison.  House prisoners.  Keep them 'happy' and secure or breakouts occur.  Kill off the bad ones in a violent mockery of the American Justice System.

And what ?

Think of it like theme hospital, but with inmates.

Also, 'paid alpha' will probably be in September, 1.0 version is slated for next year. Boo. (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/02/07/prison-architect-paid-alpha-planned-for-later-this-year/)

I'm very curious to see what they are going to charge for this.  Right now it strikes me as an interesting game to try, but nothing I'd spend more than $5 on because I could just play Dwarf Fortress for free with tons more depth.  Even loading up Sim City 4 and installing all the great player made fixes/mods would provide a similar but superior experience I'm guessing from the little they've shown so far.

Ok.  I hated Theme Hospital because I didn't see the point.  Which tallies.  Though, you know, Bullfrog.   :heart:

But, yeah, the tech looks fantastic and something that I've said since the start should be 'Dwarfed'.  Like others here, I'd pay if someone was to rip off this game to give me non-ascii dwarves.

Paradox recently announced just that (http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/a-game-of-dwarves). Release TBA, probably early 2013.

Normally I'd look at that graphics and go "oh dear, that looks cutesy, I bet it'll suck to play", but then again it is paradox...

Yeah, I actually prefer the tilesets/ascii graphics of Dwarf Fortress to that.  I'm sure the ui will be better than Dwarf Fortress' because...well, how could it be worse?  But the visuals are really lacking and I don't see how they'll convey the sense of scale and possible mega-projects that makes Dwarf Fortress fun for a lot of its players (read: me).  Part of the reason Dwarf Fortress works so well is that preposterous things happen all over the place, such as crazed elephants/carp and shores littered with undead crabs, but there aren't any visual representations of them.  I think that if there were it would detract from the game's charm.

New preview.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-09-prison-architect-preview-the-key-to-success

Sounds like they're going to do a public beta to try to shake the worst bugs out before their GA release this time?  Good plan.   :awesome_for_real:

I think this is the only upcoming title I'm really excited for.  Shame it's a year out.

I wonder if we could convince them to do a dwarf fortress clone. :grin:

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/17320928.jpg)

I bloodworthed myself, most likely. :grin:

The majority of this thread has already been a long Dwarf Fortress derail.  (Which I am guilty of having started the first time around.)   :why_so_serious:

Can't clone crazy.

Apparently you can....http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/02/crazy-ants-cloning/ (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/02/crazy-ants-cloning/)

But be fair, the tech is perfect for that.

Just make solid mod tools. If a mod team opens up for DF, you'll sell a bunch more units (see Lazarus, FFH2, etc).

Game looks interesting, but if there were a solid mod community around it....people are dying for better interface and graphics for these kind of games. DCSS is the bare minimum I can tolerate, and even then the webtiles are annoying after playing the local version (that has more QoL features).

Rock, Paper, Shotgun with a second hands-on impression of the game. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04/20/hands-on-prison-architect/)

 :heart:

Love the art direction, it strikes me as just right for these types of games.

Updated PC Gamer preview. (http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/prison-architect-preview-2/)

Looks like they're going all out with diving deep into the details of building and managing an institute, right down to the wiring and plumbing for the cells.  Which makes sense, considering that boosting and/or clogging a toilet to cause a flood in a cell block is one of the many attention getters/distractors.  So looking forward to this   :drill:

Sounds like prayers for DF clone were answered :grin:

If you have 40 minutes to spare, they gave a really interesting presentation on how the game came to be here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UyKtNERXtdU

That was a good and interesting presentation. They did leave out how their steam sale basically saved the company after multiwinia and subversion emptied the bank, though.

Pre-order is up (http://www.introversion.co.uk/prisonarchitect/), $30. Includes alpha access, and there's premium tiers if you like artbooks or have more money than sense possess an inflated sense of generosity towards indie developers want your name in the game.

Maybe I'm just a cheap bastard spoiled by Steam sales but $30 is just a bit steeper than I'd be willing to pay.

Not gonna lie, I'm kinda tempted to name a prisoner after myself.  I like Introversion, I don't mind throwing cash at them.

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I'm in the same boat myself.

I plan to.  They got the price point right.  Any more expensive and I probably wouldn't do it, but I like Introversion and I've paid more than $50 for games that I disliked.  I'm looking at you, Diablo 3.

Tempted to submit f13 dot net as a prisoner. Or if we don't hit 750 in the kickstarter thing, digitize Hunter S Thompson at $250.

My first post-tutorial prison currently has 5 bloodied, unconcious prisoners in the holding cell, and an injured guard lying in the yard...

I'm a terrible prison architect.

I'm having trouble just getting the basics set up without blowing my starting budget.   :uhrr:  Each time I get a little bit closer though.

Have you discovered the grants tab yet? That saved my first prison. Then a truckload of 24 prisoners got dumped on my lawn, doubling my population when already above capacity.  :uhrr:

Is there a demo then ?

Preorder alpha only, at the moment. The game's still in very early days, so I'd be surprised if a demo appeared before 2013.

Fair Nuff.

Yeah, the grants tab is pretty necessary to get things up and running.  I finally managed to get a reasonable prison up and running on about my 10th try.  Hiring lots of guards and the beginning seems to keep the violence at bay long enough for me to get up a real cell block (instead of just a holding cell), which also helps with the violence. 

Extra money would definitely make things easier.  On my last try I managed to get everything set up and then after the prisoners arrived I realized I didn't have any money left to hire guards.   :awesome_for_real:

(edit) Oh, while I'm posting.  What's up with large pipes not being able to pass through walls?  Am I not supposed to have my pumping station inside a building?  I've been building a "utility shed" to keep my generator and pump in, but I'm wondering now if that's even necessary.

I don't think it isrequired, but I have been building them indoors (and doubling up with the "Storage" room to store extra materials in there until they are needed).  It does make it a bit extra annoying to run the large water pipes though.  They aren't too expensive though ($10/meter) so although it is a bit inconvenient, it isn't a huge problem.

So how do you get the large pipe to go from the pump inside the building to the other buildings?  Do you have to build the pipe first and then put up the building around it?  I experimented briefly with that last night and it looked like you were allowed to have a wall go through a pipe as long as the pipe was built first.  (Which makes some sense logically, but other underground utilities don't work that way...)

I was flailing around with this earlier.  I think you have the right idea.  Either lay the building first and the large pipe out through a doorway or the pipe first and then building after.

I had a lot of trouble constructing non-square buildings and adding extensions onto said non-square buildings.  I think making a large building and cutting it up into rooms later is probably a better idea.  Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZMajvLXMOY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZMajvLXMOY).

And there should be a giant glowing sign telling you about the grants.  Playing without grants was painful and doomed to failure.

I've just been running big pipes through doors when I absolutely must, but otherwise just running them upto the outside wall and then laying small pipe in the actual building

As someone in the industry in which this game is based upon, I can attest to this  :why_so_serious:

According to the alpha wiki, it's a bug. They should be able to go through walls; as you noted, they can so long as the pipe is built first.

For now, I'm just putting them through doorways.

Going to be streaming some of this for the next little while: www.twitch.tv/snugglezhenya

EDIT: Done streaming, here is the link to the video if anyone wants to take a peak after the fact.  Its mostly pure gameplay with the occasional bit of commentary from me, not super exciting, but probably give you an idea of what it is like to actually play the game if you are interested.  http://www.twitch.tv/snugglezhenya/b/333876804

I like the concept, but as it stands this games seems more like Theme Prison than Dwarf Fortress; even then it seems to be lacking a lot of the depth that games like Theme Hospital had back in the day. You could chalk that up to Alpha status for now, but I do wonder what direction the game will take.

Also Mal, I watched your stream. You could definitely cut costs by firing some of your surplus workmen once you have a lot of your core structures up. Also, I think windows help cells, not sure though.

Yeah, I think I can optimize my hiring. I'm not sure if I was over doing it with guards either.  The first (many) attempts ended with bloody brawls, and my first response was to add more guards.  But now that I am learning other ways to keep violence down I might be able to use a few less guards.  Also, yeah, windows do help in cells, I think they reduce boredom. 

As you say, it is a bit feature light at the moment.  My understanding is that they consider this very early alpha, this isn't like a pre-order beta or anything like that, they make it pretty clear in the promo video that you are supporting development by buying in now, and that there is a long way to go.  Since there is no NDA, I'll do my best to keep this thread updated as the game moves along. 

The bugs are pretty obnoxious, especially with stuff not getting built because the workers can't find a route to it (even when there's a door -- or when the door itself is blocked because the guy in charge of building THAT can't path his way out of a wet paper bag).

When stuff is working it's very fun, but I get annoyed when my prisoners are all killing each other because they can't move into the cells I built for them because there are no beds because the guy who installs beds is le tired.

Rrrrriiiiise. They've now gone into paid public alpha:

http://www.introversion.co.uk/prisonarchitect/

$30, pass.

Yes, I'm cheap.

Uh, this has been in paid public alpha for a couple of months at least now.  I've played it some, the basics are good but it still needs fleshing out.

Edit:  At the 30 dollar price point, it isn't worth it yet unless you just really love this style game.

Now available for auto-updating and playable via Steam.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/233450/

If you already threw money at Intro, check your email.  The download link page has your Steam key in it.

Fake edit: The promo video for the Steam launch is  :awesome_for_real:

Is it worth the cash?

It is borderline.  I have a feeling the full game is going to be worth at least 30 dollars when it is done, and I don't regret going in for 30 to get alpha access.  On the other hand, as the game stands right at the moment, it doesn't feel worth 30 bucks.  It does continue to steadily improve.

It's the current item on my backlog (I finally finished Serious Sam BFE, holy fuck) so I've been pootling around with it.  It's fun but I'll agree that if you're expecting a $30 game it's not quite there yet.

Yeah, it's a fun sandboxy game. I'd say it's got some content, but obviously not $30 worth. I like to support introversion, and all types of games like this though, so I had already bought it.

Even if you don't buy it, watch the steam video.

Haha, that was highly entertaining!  :awesome_for_real:

FROM STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

The video almost made me buy it.  :heart:

Almost! Going to let it stew for a bit longer.

My dudes like to tantrum because they're bored, break their beds and toilets, and then tantrum some more because they're tired and they have to pee. 

I want an option to furnish cells entirely in stainless steel and concrete.

It's highly recommended that you remove showertime and make the day sleep->eat->free->yard->free->eat->free->sleep. They'll shower when they feel the need. Also, don't bother with a recreation room, put the pool tables, tvs (only small, large do nothing right now), and phones outside in the yard.

It's also highly recommended that you put metal detectors at the exit to your cantina.

Metal detectors are fantastic; I don't think they existed the first time I tried this game, but I've been a big fan since I discovered them.  I just put them goddamn everywhere.

Large TVs not working might explain why my dudes ignore them and complain about not having enough recreation.  I had noticed the guys showering during free time when they felt grubby, so eliminating designated shower time seems like a good move.  I assume you can also get away with smaller showers once you aren't trying to cram everyone in there at once.

Do workshops do anything?  I built one once and it looked like nobody ever went in there but I still got $50 a day from it.  I suppose I could experiment by building a hundred of them in an empty building and seeing what happens.   :why_so_serious:

That's basically how most RL jails run, with the exception of inmates serving disciplinary sanctions.

Don't ask me how I know that  :grin:

Here's my jail. It's running at 80 people in the second screenshot. I need more money! I'll try building that workshop.

Theoretically, I can extend it to the left, just mirroring the cells, moving the yard to the left and extending the cantina. Realistically, next time I build this I'll probably rework the cantina and kitchen to make them slightly taller; it's faily cramped. The cell to shower ratio is good; putting them at the end of the cells works well. I put little stalls so that they don't get annoyed at being near each other while showering. Having the kitchen near the deliveries or at least storage is really important, and for my first few jails I had a entrance corridor until I realized it was pointless: They get escorted immediately in, and that can go through a staff door just as easily without having to keep a guard there to open it for my workers. You also need serving trays fairly near the kitchen, because they don't start to move the food out until it's literally mealtime.

I don't have the right cooker / cook amount because they don't start cooking fast enough, I can't get enough meals in for 2, and so I moved to an additional mid-afternoon meal as well. I'll probably hire another few cooks and scale that back, because they don't clean the trays fast enough with 3 meals.

I hired additional workers at the start and so was able to finish the entire foundation of that before the first prisoners arrived.

The first day my latest prison was open, one of the prisoners cornered a worker in the yard and beat him to death with his bare hands.   :ye_gods:  Good lesson there about getting construction completely done before you designate a room.

Are you running all that off a single generator?  I'm totally baffled as to how power works; my generators get overloaded and shut down, and after that even if I add more generators I can't seem to get them to stay up.  Adding capacitors doesn't seem to do anything either.

Adding capacitors increases the max load.  They must be placed adjacent to the generator.  If you somehow max out on power with that many capacitors, you can build a second generator.  Be careful though, I think crossing the power lines from two different generators will short the system (I've read that but not tried it).

I've noticed that adding more generators to the same circuit doesn't work, but wasn't aware it might actually cause a short.  In my last attempt I wound up dismantling chunks of cable to try to establish isolated circuits for each generator, but that still didn't work.  So in theory one generator should be able to handle a shitload of stuff as long as it's got a lot of capacitors around it?

Yea.  I've never had to go above one generator at this point.  Keep in mind though, the capacitors have to be adjacent to the generator itself in order to add to the max capacity, you can't just keep stacking them out to one side, for example.

Edit, here I've taken a screenshot of a  "maxed out" generator.  Note how on the power gauge on the generator itself there is one "bar" per capacitor.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=135509542

Here's my prison!


I think if they keep working on the AI it could be really fun to try to build an escape-proof prison to hold crafty and determined prisoners, but for now it's much easier to just keep the inmates fat and happy than to try to hold them against their will.  I've found that putting a TV in each cell works wonders for keeping boredom down.

What the hell? No guards and open doors to the outside?

That's a bit off id say!


Just picked this up, I'm hitting a really bad slow down kinda early in this. Am I alone? It Cant be my hardware, tings like movement and i guess AI get really choppy with not much going on at the time.

Performance has been fine for me.

My prison has 12 guards (it shows 0/12 because they're all assigned to specific patrols, hence none are "free"), and uses staff doors everywhere (including for the cells).  Otherwise your guards just spend all their time running around opening doors for your workers, which is kind of very stupid.

I actually had to assign all my guards to patrols so that they wouldn't all uselessly clump up in the security room -- it only takes 1 guard to watch the monitors as long as you tell him where to stand, but left to their own devices 3 of them will go in there and then mill around without necessarily even watching the monitors.

Oh but the realism that this simulates... :awesome_for_real:

You know, I don't even put doors on cells. There's no game reason to.

Lockdown?

Right now, the AI stays in the cell during lockdown, and lockdown only sends willing people back to cells.

Unrelated: for free money, build workshops.  As far as I can figure out, you get $2 per square of workshop per day automatically, but you don't need prisoners to actually go in there and do anything.  I built a giant empty building unconnected to anything, designated the whole thing as workshops, and it started producing $2k/day.  I imagine at some point they'll flesh it out so that you have to schedule "work time" for prisoners, and they generate money as long as they're working.

Alpha 9 just dropped.  Workshops have been expanded, Laundry, Visitation, and Cleaning/Maintenance services have been added.  Really starting to come together now.  Still needs an inmate processing center and few other things.

Is this thing ready to buy yet?

I think so.  If it is the sort of thing you like, there is no reason you won't like this in its current state.

This is a video was recorded recently, so its up to date and shows the most recent video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzLDb8V0j_I

Just a note but this looks like its for sale tomorrow on Steam:

(http://cdn.steamcommunity.com/economy/profilebackground/items/245070/8a7fbf98726b172dbf5c8b8dfcbc505355698d6a.jpg?size=480x270)

Metro Last Light costs 2998 pennies too many.

Yeah, this is on sale for $19.79 today (which is an odd number, but ok!). 

Call me cheap, but still too much for me when I have no problem just playing Dwarf Fortress for free instead.  Probably have to come down to $10 or less to pick it up personally.

This game is a lot of fun, personally. Dwarf fortress, not even close for obvious reasons. This is more in line with things like Theme hospital anyway.

Thanks, picking it up, even though I don't know how much I'll play - Hexxit Minecraft is still keeping me so amused.

(https://i.imgur.com/7ZTR5Yq.gif)

Version 1.0 released. Full campaign mode enabled, and tons of other stuff. Definitely worth the wait for me.

Escape Mode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=15&v=numCg1mHs50) seems cool too.