f13.net

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114006-Thief-4-Storyboards-Leak

Let's hope they don't screw it up. Thief 2 is in my gaming shrine of all time goodness.

This gives me hope for a System Shock 3  :Love_Letters:

Only if they shit us not.  :awesome_for_real:

Let's hope Eidos don't hire the same guys that made DX3's dumbass boss fights.

Good, good.

The act of outsourcing boss fights still boggles my mind every time I think about it.  It makes absolutely no sense.

I've still to actually get past the first boss fight, I just put it down and haven't returned to it yet. It pissed me off.

They'll shit us not if we'll fucking be there.

I heard they were going to make it a first person shooter.

You clearly don't remember the retarded robot zombie fights of prior Thief games.

Nice try. Since it was a first person shooter.

Should've gone for 'they're going to make it isometric rts'.

Thief is generally a more focused experience than DX, so hopefully the final product will be more coherent.  DX3 worked out well enough that I'm cautiously optimistic about this one.  The storyboard is vague enough that I can't tell if that's Garrett we're presumably playing as, or the street waif he meets in the end of T3, and I'm curious if this is going to be just a series of unconnected levels or if it will take T3's more worldy route.

That would be awesome!  :why_so_serious:

Yeah, that was a real head-scratcher for me.

First two thirds of the original was one of the best games of ever.

Expect this will suck, though.

Which one is the one that came out on the original Xbox? 3? I liked that one well enough to try a new one.

Agreed, though my soft spot is for the second overall. I even liked the third one up until the factions would start bugging out and the streets just became npcs murderously chasing each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv8EJGOoEaU

Whatever, that looks like some sweet Monague/Capulet action.

I loved the first one, but 3 just left me cold. It didn't seem a bad game, but it felt... off to me. I can't really describe what it was that bothered me. Maybe that horribly ported UI. If I had plenty of time, I might have gone back and played it (owned it on the PC). Hopefully this will be better.

I kind of hate you a little for getting my hopes up on that now.

Wasn't that BioShock?  :why_so_serious:

I'm mentally frying you with my brain right now. :why_so_serious:

 :mob: :angryfist: :mob: :angryfist: :mob: :angryfist: :mob:

I was going to make that comment, but I figured it was too mean.

Probably never see another Freedom Force, either :(

You just made pandas cry everywhere.  :sad_red_panda:

I'm fine, thanks.

Since a search actually DID return something:  ARISE!!!

www.thiefgame.com seems to have started posting stuff, including the following "intro" video.

http://youtu.be/DpUUfRIhPIw

Looks like it could be nice.  Wonder how much of that is ingame engine footage.

They replaced the voice actor, apparently.

Yeah because David Hayter can't perform the stunts that Solid Snake has to do - oh wait, wrong game.

After Deus Ex:HR and Dishonoured (different studios I know) I'm quietly confident that Devs are willing and capable to create another genuinely good stealth-based game.

The thing is though that Dishonored is pretty much a near perfect modern thief title. I dunno what Thief 4 can bring to the table at this point really.

Much as I enjoyed Dishonored, the basic premise is "you are an assassin" vs "you are a thief".  Corvo was basically an unstoppable killing machine if you want him to be, and even if you try for stealth and are discovered, he can usually fight out.  Garrett, on the other hand, is pretty fragile.  Other than stealth arrow kills, you actively avoid all fights if you can b/c that's not his strength. The non lethal stuff in Dishonored was like Deus Ex HR - the options are there but that's not the focus, and many times it's actually harder to do that vs straight mayhem/killing.  That said bring em on; i enjoy them all.

I'vs actually been playing through Thief Deadly Shadows recently as a steam sale pickup and while its not as good as the first 2 thief games, it still scratches that itch, even for a crappy console port.  I hope "Thief 4-implied" doesnt stray too far from the original focus and structure.

I agree with XT.

Yeah, XT nailed my thoughts exactly. Dishonoured was great, but the character was too strong in combat for a Thief game.

Looks like an interesting art direction for the cg at least, sort of dreamworks/pixar type characters.

That's my concern with Dishonored when considered as a Thief-alternative, as well.

However.

They said the magic word. Ghost.

If the 'some think it's X, some thing it's Y' was about approaching levels like you could in Thief 2....yeah.

I don't know if you'll see a game like Thief where combat is de-emphasized ever again really, at least anything AAA. Garret will probably be able to kick the shit out of people.

Having that option is fine imo. But being able to ghost it and have that as fun as it was in Thief 2 is what will make or break this title for me.

I think Deus Ex struck that balance pretty well for a modern game, I'd argue that the stealth in DX was better than Dishonoured. It'd be nice to go the whole hog and have a proper glass character, at worst they might be able to add in a mode for that, where you die after one or two hits.

Deus Ex: HR's problem was the ending and the weapons (specifically some weapons just being utterly useless) but the stealth was decent.

And the boss fights and the racial portrayals.

Shit, I had forgotten the assyass boss fights and inherent racism.

Racism ?  Refresh me ?

http://techland.time.com/2011/08/31/the-worst-thing-about-deus-ex-human-revolution/

I'd add the fact that pretty much every character you meet in Shanghai is in organized crime or a whore, myself, but the character that article is talking about is the one that literally made me squirm.

I was thinking of Shanghai mostly. I never even met the Letitia character but holy fuck... blackface is right.

Holy crap, when Ingmar idly mentioned the racism to me as a reason he didn't like it, I didn't realize it was that ... you know. That.

Huh. It didn't even register anywhere in my mind.

Yes, well, your ability to detect these sorts of offenses is perhaps slightly in question:

Yes, because the use of one word, once, make me a racist. :oh_i_see:

It certainly doesn't make you a candidate for "can tell when something is horribly racist," at any rate.

Or perhaps the reason I'm not as hypersensitive to it is because, well, racism isn't that big of a problem up here. But sure, if using the word once makes me a racist, then using the word "gay" makes me a homophobe, and saying "that's interesting, but" makes me a climate sceptic. What else?

Nobody called you a racist, and gay isn't a slur.

Point being your failure to notice how awful the caricature in the game was is not very surprising, given you seemingly thought nothing of dropping the N bomb in a thread about internet spaceships.  I have no idea what passes for polite discourse on the topic in Norway, but you're certainly not very clued in on the subtext that character has for Americans.

I get what they were trying to do with that particular character, but they fucked it up. The black street denizens in Atlanta don't sound like the crows from Dumbo.

When I was little, I loved those crows. They were the fucking heroes of the film! Then I grew up and went "... oh."  :heartbreak:

Considering you remembered that from 1.5 years ago, no, I don't put as much emphasis on that word as you do.

Two reasons for that: 1) racism isn't generally a problem here, so you're right, that in and of itself makes me less hypersensitive to it, 2) I frequent other forums, where "the n bomb" (and other words which I'm sure will offend someone, somewhere) is readily dropped in any context other than a racial one, and 3) most of the time the racism card (or its brother, sexism) is being played, it tends to be because the guy (or girl) playing it is being an ass or did something wrong and is being punished for it. Obviously it still happens, and it's fairly obvious when it does happen, but it tends to be fairly infrequent.

And with that I think I'm going to just drop this subject, enough derailing on my part I think.

A backhoe might be faster for the task you are trying to accomplish.

I think the people you met in Hengsha are mostly lowlifes - that's why they talk like that.
And yes, punching out that prostitute who is asking for help and picking up her credit chit is pretty acceptable in my book.
Especially this asshole. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixMnHVBS64I)

everything is racist forever and the world sucks. This place is rife with racial slurs, everywhere. You keep hearing people say "Fuck this Ingmar game" and "You fucking dirty Ingmars" and it .. er, wait. I think I have some words mixed up. but what cannot be excused is the pathetic trickle of ammunition DE3 petulantly doled out to you in meager, miserly wisps. You would kill people one powerbar at a time and carefully comb over each and every corpse, desperate and crying for even a dream of a ghost of a fraction of a bullet, remembering the good years before that time a dude threw you through a wall and broke your infinite ammo, forever. Now you're looking at guns which might have, in an alternate universe, been fun to use. But you drop it because you know you will only ever find six shots for it from now until the heat death of the universe. You never asked for this. And you simply can't waste that space. That space is for your creatine protein powder jugs you regularly inhale in a spectacular split second so that your robot punchorstab fist might punchorstab a dude then — in a glorious show of the majesty of your fusion of man and machine — be able to subsequently punchorstab a second dude without a union break first.

Thief will be better pretty much guaranteed because Garrett won't have to scrimp and scrounge and hunt through every nook, cranny, and corpse for additional swishes of his sword or baps of his blackjack, and I'm okay with that. I will try to like this game. I will like this game, until I reach the point where I'm stuck on a level and the game helpfully hints me towards the shop wherein I discover that rope arrows are day one DLC.

ok , dawg.

For me dxhr came across as trying to do a sandboxy city but hitting the wall of console limitations. Everyone in shanghai was a prostitute or gangster because the plot had you face down a mafia and there was no space left for anyone else. Similarly everyone in Detroit was a corporate drone or a goddamn hippy. I blame fucking consoles.

Tgr OTOH has, I suspect, simply been posting in goonswarm lately and carried over certain vocab norms which are unhelpful outside of that very specific community.

To be honest, I've become so used to games set in the future to be dystopian and bleak, and as such have tons of people spewn everywhere as "social delinquents". In fact, the main reason I even remember the character Letitia was because when I stumbled across her, I thought "god damn, whomever did wrote and/or recorded the accent of her sure knew how to overplay". Apart from that, my impression of the game itself was that it was too small, and with too few people to actually feel like a proper city, and as such the suspension of disbelief necessary to accept the world was just a tad too much for me.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're exactly right in pointing the blame at consoles for this, in fact I'm almost convinced you're pretty much spot on. We can only hope that the next generation of consoles will have enough storage space and memory available to allow game developers to actually break past this barrier.

As to Thief 4, I'm kind of expecting that to be more of the same in this regard, but I still have some hope that they'll be able to do what Ubisoft did with assassin's creed or Rockstar did with the GTAs with their environment, and actually make it feel like a large and (semi-)believable city.

The post Ingmar drug up was the only post on here where I slipped up wrt that particular word. I ignored the "hurr you're a racist" responses then, because I knew it would just turn into absolute shit if I said "no, I'm not". I should've done exactly the same thing this time as well. But yes, you're right as to the origin of the vocab norms, which is what I referred to as "other forums", amongst others.

I dunno, Deus Ex:HR really encourages searching anyone you killed or knocked out because most of them tended to have a PDA entry with door/computer codes or other stuff on them. I also never had a problem with ammo since I stuck with the pistol, magnum, and stungun- magnum ammo is rareish but buyable at points and after you trick it out, it's pretty much a 1-shot kill on anything but bosses, heavies, and boxbots. The game shits pistol and stungun ammo all over you.

Of course the game heavily encourages just sneaking up on people or running straight up to them and mashing the "Punch Mans/Arm Sword Mans in the face" button while slamming powerbars.

I'm still wondering how Jensen uses the gigantic container of energy drink powder stuff. I like to imagine him just dumping the container on his face because it makes me laugh.

DX:HR Had it's faults but inventory management? That's a new one. I never had any trouble finding bullets or felt like it was tedious to do so.

Also thief is chock full of inventory when you consider arrows,smoke bombs,potions, etc.

This is why announcing games with no info is bad.

I'm cynical enough now to assume exactly zero of the great things that could be in T4 will actually be in the game; one of these would be sneaking.  Hell, rope arrows didn't exist in T3.

I do remember that T1 scared the shit out of me a couple times, only beaten out by Amnesia (fuck that game).  No way in fuckland is that going to be replicated in a modern title.

I'm just overcriticizing the game because it burned me out on playthrough 1 because I liked weapons that were completely unfeasible to use due to ammo constraints/size

Learned my lesson, used pistol instead on my second try.

For the record, I didn't pick up on any racist subtext in DXHR.


Except for all the people living above the plate, who were all engineers, scientists, businessmen, or construction workers. Also, all the people in and around the Hengsha Court Gardens were just regular civilians and shopkeepers, the whores and criminals are all around The Hive. Hell, even the people in the Alice Gardens Pods were mostly just normal folk. Furthermore, the streets of Detroit were pretty light on anyone who wasn't a gangster, whore, or junkie.

Boss fights, and the ending were really the only problems with the game. On the flip side, the magnum that shot exploding bullets was  :awesome_for_real:

Most of those civilians were either secretly part of, in debt to, working for, escaping from, or defined by being a victim of, the aforementioned mafia.

I think to call it racist overstates the case, but in the grim dark future, all american cities are dominated by corporations, all Asian cities are dominated by crime lords, while Europe and Africa cease to exist.

It is known.

That's ridiculous.  Asian cities will be run by corporations also.  And by "asian" I mean Asia and North America.

Tae Yong Medical dominated Shanghai far more than the mafia I thought. I think if anything the point is that life is pretty grim everywhere.

You can do grimdark future without also trotting out horrifying minstrel show caricatures.

I googled the article's author, and sure enough he's black himself, which explains at least part of the focus on the one black woman in the game. And I came to thinking, what would happen if the article had been written by a white dude, and letitia had been some white stereotypical bum or whatever.

I'm guessing nobody'd give a fuck.

...

I really didn't pick up on any racist overtones when I played the game either.  Ehh, to each his own I guess, but I can't really get behind that article.

It's a mishandled character, not a hate crime. I think intent matters when it comes to racial caricatures. I think the intent was to create an informant bum who speaks in the vernacular of the street, not a shot at black society. They just failed miserably at the slang and tone.

You pick up on racist overtones when the intent is to be racist. That's why many people didn't notice.

Deliberate racism is not the only kind of racism. You don't have to actively hate black people to pick up the cultural background radiation that shapes your biases to the point where you could create that character (or see that character) and not really understand what is wrong with it.

Things like goonswarm using racist language because lol we're edgy and we want to offend the "oversensitive" is absolutely part of that problem.

You're reaching there. There was no racist language here. There was a vocal pattern.

Utterly irrelevant. Replace that character with, say, the most stereotypical white redneck you can imagine. Give that character an over the top redneck dialect.

Is it still "a racist scene"?

Were I you, I would have bowed out of this gracefully a while ago.

Man, I give up. You're unreachable.

Drm is racist.

No no, it's WORSE than racism.

As if you're "trying to reach" me.

The root of this whole tangent is that here:
you claim that DXHR has "racial portrayals". I'm asking you if it would still be considered a "racial portrayal" which would get anyone's knickers in a twist if it had been, say, a redneck in that scene instead. It's a simple yes/no question, one which I guess you're not in the mood to answer so you go after my character instead.

I think it best that this discussion of "racial portrayals" gets sidelined since it has fuckall to do with Thief 4 and is likely to land all this in Politics land.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/82533/7ZWwYs7.jpg)

Have a baffling article about the weird design decisions that led them to this version of Garrett, then:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-04-what-do-the-joker-brandon-lee-a-raccoon-and-an-outlaw-have-in-common-they-all-went-into-reinventing-garrett

Because when I think 'fresh new design', my mind immediately leaps to 90s movies.

I'm not so sure Grimdark Minion of Darkness is the right look for Garrett.  :oh_i_see:

Yeah, the plasma rifle and peps were literally useless by the time you had the inventory to reliably use them. Well, the peps had a use RIGHT at the end.

Is that Racism Turtle?

I totally fail to understand why Garrett is now a teenage vampire goth.

I always thought of Deckard as the obvious model for him.

Hint: there's a debug menu hack.  It makes Deus Ex about a wallpunching cyborg ninja with a high explosive firing revolver rather than SimHobo 2011: the Quest for Discarded Liquor.

If we could change the subject for a minute.

http://www.yogscast.com/videos/exclusive-thief-2014-interview

The small snippets they provide do look interesting, but I'm still interested in seeing how big they make the city, and how natural/alive they can manage to make it feel.

I hope it's small focused levels. The game works much better as a self-contained job level concept, just loading in the interior of the lord's estate (or whatever). I don't see what streets add, really. Maybe I'm just wary thanks to Deadly Shadows keystone kops nonsense. All the time spent working on a city environment is less time making missions better.

At any rate. When the debate between two of the senior guys is whether to use attacks as a last resort or not at all...it does seem like the direction is good. Hopefully Square Enix leaves the team alone.

The fact they mention ghosting vs stealth knock outs vs combat leads me to believe it will very much be like deus ex in terms of level size.  Not fully open world but certainly large stages with chapter breaks to evaluate progress.

Ok, this is Thief.  Nothing but good old first person theft in abundance and if you're not playing at master difficulty, you're just an amateur. 

minor con:the character design for Garret isn't awesome but it's first person so you know, doesn't matter much.  This is the original style gameplay with a few modern conveniences added: peeking in locks/around corners, dashing but all the bars I expected a Thief game to meet, they met. 

(http://img.pandawhale.com/73369-I-dont-believe-you-gif-HD-Imgu-qUVu.gif)

Weren't we talking about this in another thread somewhere? I remember recent discussion on it but all I see before Lakov's post is the old racism derail.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=19896.msg1266483#msg1266483

Don't mistake my use of one of my favorite gifs, I hope it's awesome.

It's not the perfect thief game but it IS thief.

There are also options to turn off the various visual assists, onscreen hints, and whatnot if you want a more immersive experience. 

So is this the part where everyone acts butthurt because the game is actually good?

I'll just be pleasantly surprised!

Having played through the intro bits (up to the tower), it seems to offer some reasonable sneakery and thievery gameplay, and I'm cautiously optimistic. 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/24/thief-review

IGN obviously didn't get their check.

Lakov is the last guy I would expect a positive review from, especially since he implies he's played the previous games.  All I've heard is doom and gloom so I don't know what to expect when I get home and install it now.

I hear you don't actually have to steal any loot throughout the entire game...

Stealing things is really such an unimportant part of being a thief.

(http://i.imgur.com/I8kq0uJ.gif)

And to further clarify: I think we don't think it's possible to do a quality reboot of old games. But...X-Com's reboot was pretty awesome. I want to believe.

Also: http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/02/11/how-to-play-thief-in-old-school-mode

I agree.  I want to complain about New X-COM so hard but I just can't do it.

I wouldn't know for sure since I only ever started at the hardest difficulty so I'm not getting any visual assists, I don't even have a targeting reticle.  Maybe on easy/normal mode it is less immersive but that's like wanting to watch MMA with everyone wearing football pads and giant hulk hands.  

I got a couple hours in and basically did the first stage after the tutorial and even as thorough as I was only found 84% of the loot, did ghost it first try(this is not to say I didn't die a couple times).  You could nitpick some things but I was able to get into this game immediately because I knew the previous ones and this feels almost exactly the same but evolved with modern stealth games a bit.  

I can't remember if you are Italian or not.

Well, there was that bit where it was slightly not as cool as toast before the expansion came out and made it even more cool as toast.

But we'd be reaching.  The New X-Com was HOW to do reboots, to my mind.

I am a damned yankee exiled to the not-so-deep south of Atlanta.

OK, that's good to know.  I guess I have to buy this game.

Garret couldn't save the his girl.
Onii chan why did you let me die?
Nooooooooo Onii chan failed you.
Haunted by guilt, Garret Oniichan will have to seek vengeance.
By stealing....... her killer's lives...

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/829607/HUMOR/sochibear8.png)

Yeahhhh.

Patrol Log. (http://www.somethingawful.com/video-game-article/thief-guard-patrol/)

Wow it's getting unfavorable reviews, seems mostly due to all the new modern conveniences. 

The first thing everyone who likes the older games needs to do is pick hardmode and go to options/gameplay and just turn off almost all the ui options.  That's not really an excuse for having a very hand-holding game if played on normal/default options but it's not like you need to jump through any hoops, the options are all right there.

Wait. The footsteps are the same?  :uhrr:

I suppose that's why you're supposed to use focus rather than listen for the guard's footsteps on different surfaces to know where he is? And then play 'hot lava' moving from carpet to carpet to be, you know, stealthy?

That's not nitpicking, that's kind of one of the things that made the old games awesome. That patrol log wasn't talking about modern conveniences.

What about the original fears about the story?  And the linearity of the story levels?

Footsteps on carpet/stone/roof tiles are very different in sound.  I am unsure if guards react differently because I haven't been in that situation yet since I'm crouched and moving slowly just about everywhere.

I haven't gotten far enough into the main story to say.  Once you finish the first level you are put into a sort of open world hub able to do side missions which is what I've been doing.  Most of the side missions are almost like puzzle rooms in that they are short heists in generally small locals though a couple have been whole buildings.  So, I spent a few hours last night just running around thieving, found a secret room with a single chair and candles facing a painting of a nude woman with a goat head, that was...interesting.

Lots of people have said your footsteps sound the same on carpet, wood and tile.

I'm still trying to finally finish witcher 2 so I didn't try playing any last night.

Gaming platform may make a difference.

Yeah it could be the platform but there's no question on pc there are different footsteps cause it scared the shit out of me when I first walked on a tiled roof.

While the original Thief games were some of my favorites, i am willing to give this latest iteration some breaks b/c it still the only thing even close to the originals.
I'm somewhere in chapter 2 and an enjoying it enough i believe i will finish.  Story is crap, there are too many mini cutscenes and there seem to be real problems with the lip synching.  Plus if you really want to complain about how much they streamlined (read consolized) the stealth parts of the game, you can - hello swoop move and context jumping, im looking at you.
That being said, i actually am enjoying it so far - thankfully they included options to turn off most of the annoyances today's gamers cant seem to live without like flashing loot,and i am not going to play like Garret can actually fight his way out of problems (even though now he actually could) and not using the super easy cheat mode known as focus.
 
I'd probably slot it in the same general vein a the Deus Ex reboot - not perfect compared to the originals, but a decent enough game to be worth a pick up.
Someone who never played the original will probably wonder what all the old people are yelling about...

Compared to Dishonored, I feel like there are fewer ways to move around, especially in large open areas like the city center.  Obviously I'm not looking for something like the Blink ability which wouldn't fit in this setting, but having climbing, jumping, and rope arrows work only in specific contextual places is frustrating.  Hell, in mission two I ran into an area where a pipe or somesuch was running along the ground, maybe 1' high, and I could only walk over it where there was a little ramp.

I'm having fun, but there are definitely frustrating bits that feel like they didn't have to be frustrating.

Context jumping actually makes me more likely to want to play it, but I generally hate platform elements. Honestly, what I'm hearing from actual players rather than reviewers puts this on my 'when it goes on sale' radar. If the story elements were good I'd think about getting it even before that, but those are the one thing that *nobody* likes so far.

Kind of ironic when they're supposedly sacrificing so much gameplay on the altar of story. (We'll just pretend that's true and not mention consoles)

I don't mind a good story in games, even a decently interesting one...but I can maybe count on my hands the amount I've ever seen in all of video gaming worth a shit.

Let's just hope for solid indie gameplay-focused games while AAA millions are wasted pretending to be movies or an art form or whatever the fuck is the reason we have to put up with so much heavy-handed crap storytelling instead of fun games.

The story is pretty damn bad.

Well the first one could hardly have been said to have a story at all.  I'm not defending it mind you but I don't think it affects my enjoyment of thieving things.

Well, true.  But at the very least I want something somewhat coherent.  Going through The Forsaken was a constant stream of "what the fuck is going on?  What the fuck was that?  Why am I doing this again?  How did I do that?"  Probably should have just been a damn cut scene.

Aw, I liked the original plot when I was a teenager.  The whole thing with Garret's eye was pretty grim.

So many qualifiers for enjoying this game.

It will be worth buying 75% off this summer I'm sure.

I doubt it'll be 75% off by summer, it's not like it's a bad game.  I've said before it's flawed but if there's one reason to buy it, it's because it's fun to play and a more fleshed out sequel could be made.

Tomb Raider went on 50% off like a month or so after release. I'm guessing this will do about the same, if not sooner.

I've managed to play this some since the weekend and it's what I expected, as much fun as Dishonored, which I liked.  People raging against it must be hardcore oldschool thief fans who would have known better than to buy it.

It is, frankly, too similar to Dishonored.  Uses the exact same cliche of anti-hero against "a strongman in charge during a plague in pseudo-England".

Is there any stealth-centered game that isn't heavily built around contextual or prompted action? For some reason, a stealth game where I can't jump a short distance, can't climb a small wall, can't use my rope unless I'm meant to at a particular moment, can't make it through shadows where there should be shadows, etc., really bugs me. But just about every one of them that I can think of does this kind of stuff to a lesser or greater degree.

Thief and thief 2 did a pretty good job of not feeling like that.

Also Deus ex.

While it's true you can't just jump any time you want it is done well enough in this game that I am never missing it.  Basically, any time you could want to jump anywhere you can because the levels are designed in such a way that it's not glaring.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJuh_zVH-qI

Dishonored? :awesome_for_real:

Ok, I've got Dishonored on my Steam, so I should actually play it.

Agree that Thief 1 and 2 did that mostly. It's why I'm thinking of it now.

During the first mission I entered a courtyard where a pipe ran along one side and there was stuff beyond the pipe.  The pipe was maybe one foot high, yet I was unable to jump or climb over it, I had to walk along it until I came to a spot where there was a little ramp over it and then I could cross.  This really did not encourage me.

I remember you mentioning that before and took note because I ran into said same pipe.  It's about 3' tall but first person makes it seem smaller, I agree it's jarring in video games when you can't hop small fences but thief has been pretty good about not having such glaring omissions. 

I won't be able to hop onto tile to cause a noise, then climb into the rafters on a rope arrow to let the guards pass under me, then?

Why do you want to ruin the carefully orchestrated narrative about a young girl and her prized grappling hook, Yeg? You monster.

That's me, a self-serving gamer that pisses on the carefully-honed epics that were crafted by the various Orson Wellses of our time.

So, $15 on steam already, before the summer sale.

I'm probably going to fall for that.  :ye_gods:

Sadly, I'm not.

Nah, I need $10 or less. Maybe.

Also breaks the 'don't buy before the summer sale' rule. I'll be surprised if it's not up at 75% off then.

Though I'm with Fabrio on this one. If they hadn't messed with the formula and just made a straight Thief 2 experience with modern amenities, day 1 purchase. Ah, well.

I'll take a look once I finish Thief 3.

Why would you want to do that?  :why_so_serious:

Is such a thing even possible?

Oh, I see what you did there.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85916/adventure_time_fist_bump.gif)