f13.net

So I woke up this morning to find an "apology" from the CEO of netflix for the way they handled their price increases, which have apparently cost them a million customers and killed their stock price. But the "apology" wasn't an apology, it was a note that they're going to completely separate streaming and DVD rentals, spinning off DVDs into "Qwikster" a completely separate company and website. I really didn't care about the price increases, I've had a Roku forever and watched the selection explode. That wasn't going to keep going forever without the cost going up. (Not that I was happy to pay more, but I can see the value increasing.) Nor do I care about the branding.

But I care a great deal about the websites being separated. No more going to one site and looking for the movie and just routing it into the correct queue. And no more DVD queue movies popping into streaming when they became available. I cannot fathom what they're thinking and from reading the feedback, I do not seem to be alone. In particular, it seems to have irritated long time people who really weren't bothered by the price increases because of the utility of the service.

Given that the biggest reason to stick with netflix for DVDs is about to disappear, has anyone else used Blockbuster or any of the other options? What other options are there for that matter? We had GreenCine for a while and their selection of obscure video was great, but their shipments were glacial, sometimes taking four or five days for a turnaround.

Sounds like a franchise brothel for preemies.

Updates to Your Netflix Subscription (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/netflix-streaming-qwikster.php)

 :ye_gods: :uhrr:

For a company that once seemed so savvy they've certainly stepped in it the last few months.  I was worried about the streaming portion going tits-up - as more and more companies are being stupid and pulling content and not offering it on their own service -  but had confidence their DVD market would stay strong until such time as all the issues were worked out.  So much for that.

As for their stock price.. it was at $304/share as of July, prior to announcing the increase.  It's at $157/share right now and been on a plummet since early September.

All this seems reactionary, and not very well thought out. Also fells like they want out of the DVD shipping game.

DVDs are dying. We're prepping the circ staff for a massive influx of donations starting in January. Streaming and blu-rays are starting to eat their lunch. We saw the same cycle with VHS.

I just wish Netflix could offer more (and better) streaming selections. Tired of searching for things and finding them only on DVD, 480i is for losers  :why_so_serious:

Well said.  Splitting them is dumb from a customer point of view.


In my world Blu-ray are still DVDs. 

What a retarded move.  DVDs are not dying, if for no other reason than most good stuff you can't stream.  Netflix's competitive advantage was the DVD and streaming combination, and now that they don't have that why would I stay with them. 

Sure Amazon Prime doesn't have as much of a selection, but it's essentially free to me since I paid for Prime solely for free shipping.

The content companies are idiotic because frankly Netflix isn't their competition; bittorrent is.  Netflix is idiotic because their streaming selection isn't good enough to stand on its own two feet.  I already canceled my account before this debacle since Redbox is now a better value for me on the physical media side, and I already have an Amazon prime account giving me fairly comparable streaming for nothing.

This new division makes it easy to sell off the DVD by mail business, but it alienates costumers and is premature by a long shot.

Exactly.  If anything then streaming is the medium in danger in the US.  ISP bandwith caps, more providers pulling content from services or unwilling to negotiate - plus those providers getting pressure from cable companies who don't want to lose the on-demand monopoly and HBO/ Showtime, etc.

There's a lot of money tied up in the old way of doing things, and that money's working hard to kill streaming or get its own piece of the pie at the inconvenience or detriment of consumers.

They better not go make me rate all my shit again.  Speaking of which is there any way to view my entire list of previously watched/rated movies, I only seem to be able to see a few pages of the top rated stuff (4+ stars).  I also used to like the website but in the rush to dumb it down for consoles some of the nicer features have disappeared.

It's a pretty colossal clusterfuck in multiple directions. In fact, it's sort of a microcosm of how head-up-ass the culture industry as a whole is right now about format and distribution, with a special sprinkling of completely unique and unnecessary stupid on top from the Netflix top execs.

So has anyone used Blockbuster? They're cheaper, have no extra charge for blu ray, and if the queues are separated, I'm going to have to go to two sites anyway.

No PS3 Support.

Neither here nor there but Qwikster is really hard to type for some reason (qwik is just not natural) and the name sucks.

And the Twitter account is owned by a foul-mouthed stoner :awesome_for_real:

Yeah, I'm really confused on the name myself.  Why they didn't just go with Netflix DVDs or Netflix Discs is beyond me.  At least they'd keep the same branding, even if they did ultimately plan to kill off their physical media branch sooner or later.  Their stock ticker is fun to watch right now though.  It's not on the straight plunge to the bottom it was last week, but it's still headed down.

They aren't going with something like Netflix DVD because this is almost certainly a step towards spinning them off as a separate company.

You should be able to see it all from the links on the relevant pages, Ratings on the Suggestions page and "Show all DVD and Instant activity" from the Queue pages, but here's the direct links:

Ratings: http://movies.netflix.com/MoviesYouveSeen (http://movies.netflix.com/MoviesYouveSeen)
Disc Activity: https://www.netflix.com/RentalActivity?all=true (https://www.netflix.com/RentalActivity?all=true)
Streaming Activity: https://account.netflix.com/WiViewingActivity (https://account.netflix.com/WiViewingActivity)


I used Blockbuster Online for a long time (basically up until the NXE got announced) and its turn-around times were crap compared to Netflix.  They weren't GameFly-bad, but switching to Netflix was a huge surprise.

Once I can stream Amazon Prime on my Wii/PS3/phone I doubt I'll hold onto Netflix anymore.

The streaming company will be hard pressed to stand alone.  Costs for content rights will keep rising the more recent the content they want.  A business model that pays large lump sums up front for content rights and then tries to get that money back + profit by charging lots subscribers a small monthly fee is in an inherently risky position.

http://twitter.com/#!/Qwikster (http://twitter.com/#!/Qwikster)


Haha, wow, this entire thing was so poorly thought out and half assed.

I got the same email this morning. It sounds to me like their entire marketing and sales division had a stroke overnight and can no longer think in linear terms. You know, linear like the price on their stock ticker going straight down, or the meter on their subscribers pegging freefall. Not having the goddamn smarts to determine that their fancy new brand name (probably bought from a really snazzy ad agency that doesn't understand multi-market research) they want for their baseline service is taken on one of the biggest social media sites on the planet, and worse, taken by a foul-mouthed jackass who will make their brand look like morons.

It is a compass pointing to magnetic wrong. Every single decision they've made since the price increase and every public word they've said about it seems to have been engineered to piss their customers right the fuck off. When you have a successful business model, you don't just split the successful parts off with an entirely new brand, no matter how limited a lifespan you think that service has. The DVD by mail service won't go away for a while, unless you kill it off intentionally, which is what it looks like they are trying to do. Yes, streaming only is the wave of the future. That future ain't here yet, asscheese.

It is now :why_so_serious:

The future is born in fire. Too bad we're the ones getting our asses burned.  :grin:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/netflix

The Great NetFlix Freakout (http://www.theawl.com/2011/09/the-great-netflix-freakout)
(http://www.theawl.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Screen-shot-2011-09-19-at-8.46.21-AM.jpg)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timothylee/2011/09/19/netflix-is-not-facing-the-innovators-dilemma/

If you have a Roku box you can stream Amazon Prime Movies & TV through your PS3.  I do it now.  HD no problem.

Amazon Instant Video on the Roku Player (http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=help_search_1-1?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200313200&qid=1316471161&sr=1-1)

I wonder just how low netflix stock will sink as this sinks-in. They dropped another 7% today alone.  (Although that's nothing compared to the plummet last Wednesday, which I think is when Starz announced no more stuff for NFLX.)

I have yet to hear from anyone, analyst or user who thinks this is a good idea.   If I didn't know better I'd accuse the idiot of deliberately tanking the place.  Stockholders will have his head sooner rather than later.

What was it? Two months ago I told everyone Netflix sucked and was dying?

As of 2012 Netflix will lose all Sony, Disney and Starz (so no more Sparticus) from streaming. There is NO WAY HBO is going to agree to allow them to stream its content.
They are for all intents and purposes dead. Which is to bad. Yes, the content creators are just as much to blame but that doesnt remove all the blame from Netflix.


I will keep them until the end of the year and cancel when they lose all their content.

Last week was the actual price hike, which lost them a million+ customers.  This drop was about as third as much as that one, but the real ramifications won't hit until the day the company actually splits in two, which sounds like it's only a few weeks off.  I'd be shocked if there isn't an equally large drop come then also.

The more I watch this, the more I think this is the New Coke 2011: a wonderful, beautiful case study that will keep MBA programs alive and ticking for years to come as a "teachable moment".

Netflix won the world, crushed its rivals, heard the lamentations of their women, and then said, "WTF, Thulsa Doom went away, now what?".  Aquilonia was shining right there in their faces and they decided to go blow the gold in a bar with some whores. That email was from a sad barbarian who woke up in the pokey with half his gold gone and a bunch of VD on his dick.

I got the email too but I think I'll go to Amazon Prime.  I just bought Thor and X-Men FC on Blu-Ray and will rent other new releases thru AP.
Netflix messed up by jacking the prices way up and were smug about it.  Many folks are money-squeezed and entertainment is the first and most logical thing to cut back on.

I understand the license fees were going up for Netflix, but the price hike shouldn't have been so high, it was like 60% FFS.  Then the snotty attitude.  They should have let subscribers know ahead of time of a price hike was coming and not have been such dicks about it.

Netflix is netfuxed.

Will Blockbuster online make a comeback?

Love your Conan metaphor!

I think Netfix hummed along just fine with techies who grew the business.  It was when the MBA's arrived that things went pear-shaped.

Seems like a trend. Keep MBAs the fuck away from businesses.

It's really fundamental--you could practically measure the probability that a business is going to lose its way by the per capital hiring of MBAs with no particular experience or insight into what the business is. Most businesses would be better off hiring one guy who knows the numbers, locking him in a structural cage where that's all he does, and then a bunch of people who know what the business is about and does and wants. Netflix should have been hiring people who watch a bunch of films first, MBAs last, really. Every single big business failure I can think about involves a very heavy admixture of people who do business but know fuck-all about the business they're actually in.

MBAs are an easy group to blame, but in my experience even those who set up their companies from scratch have some very large blind spots, or are unable to deal with a changing environment.

A quick look indicates that Reed Hastings set up Netflix and is now the one behind the move to Qwikster. It isn't necessarily the MBAs at work here.

"Destroy your business model before someone else does."    They thought they were being clever (transition their brand from DVD's in the mail to content on demand), but did a *lousy* job of managing the transition (and may not have needed to transition at all, what they had was working).  And in the process they may have destroyed their brand, which was their only real asset.

--Dave

So ya, I decided I would cancel because my BluRay player's nic died and I can't watch on my tv anyway plus with all this new bullshit.....and if you cancel it is "effective immediately, no refunds for partial months".

Seriously. I have to wait until the last day before my card gets charged before I can cancel?

Damnit, I was planning on getting a lot of use out of Netflix while in Africa...I guess that plan is screwed.  :oh_i_see:

I'm done with Netflix streaming I think, they add things very slowly and most of them are very bad, the novelty has worn off.

Well I guess I'll finish up the movies I have in my physical DVD queue and then cancel.  I'm not really interested in dealing with the second rate streaming content and splitting it into separate brand names just seems... stupid.

End of an era.  The DVDs are no longer worth it, and I haven't used the streaming in a while but was holding on to it mostly in anticipation of Spartacus.  If they're not getting that, well, fuck 'em.

For kids netflix streaming is awesome. They have tons of kids shows and stuff and then the wife and I order the blu-rays we want. Not sure what I'll end up doing now. If amazon prime gets a lot of kids shows it will be pretty easy to decide.

They say they have a bunch of new content coming on to the streaming…

New movie releases are slim pickings, but they did add a bunch of TV series recently -- all the Star Trek series (TOS, TNG all I care about), Mad Men, and they have all The Office, Arrested Development, etc.…

I am done with DVDs and I never did jump on the Blu Ray bandwagons -- find myself just clicking on movies that I know have a DVD on the shelf somewhere. And irksome thing is, some of those things get yanked off NetFlix -- for example, Big Lebowski has been available for streaming but recently became unavailable (I reckon in lieu of recent Blu Ray release).

David Pogue of NYT wrote a column a while back lamenting how what a mess it is to actually find where you could locate a movie you wanted to watch -- for purchase or stream or DL -- some only on DVD but not on certain outlets, some stream on NetFlix, some are available on iTunes, etc.…

The big movie studio houses think they're protecting their assets but they're really just clipping sales from customers. Bit torrent or not --  meanwhile, I'll just settle for the stuff I can get on the internet (watch old youtube videos or Amazon Prime) or hit the library again (if that it still an option after Republicans get to finish their task of destroying all facets of American government). Will keep Netflix until end of year, but we'll see what they still can offer after that.

I'm still getting a lot of mileage out of streaming netflix, but I've only had it two months and I'm using it for tv shows and an occasional movie. Once I dry those up, it's Amazon Prime. One of our tech-savvier librarians just switched a month ago and loves it (though she already had Prime, so it's a no-brainer).

Lebowski should be available on netflix starting 10/1 (according to my queue).

Naum, thanks for supporting your library. Watch for ballot initiatives or ask at the reference desk if there's anything you can do to help out. The other end of my comment about the big influx of DVD donations is that the libraries will have a ton of titles you can usually borrow for free.

If you're going to rent instead of just stream the stuff that comes free with Prime, you should try Vudu out too.  Vaguely similar app penetration and the quality can really go through the roof.

As for sticking with Netflix, I still have huge queues going and at the new price (plus whatever the game tier is) it's still laughably good value.  My only complaints are the same ones I've had since I started with them years ago: subtitles are burned-in and occasionally get partially cropped and anime is almost always dubbed rather then subbed.

If I read another stock analyst babbling how this is the bet move EVER for netflix I'll vomit. Though with the depth of the backlash online, they seem to be backing off. You could see that in the bump yesterday the stock price got when the imbeciles read the business pages and then the drop when they realized complaints were trending on twitter.

Business makes money when it exists to build a product or offer a service. Making money comes naturally from that unless you're incompetent. It dies when it starts to see the "product" as making money.

Was reading some more analysis this morning. Netflix is fucked. They loaded up on streaming content at a time when no one was paying attention to what they were doing, and they got a gigantic fucking inrush of stuff for a song and a dance from Starz. Netflix subscribers slowly awoke to how much shit they could watch via streaming, and really liked the ease and convenience of doing so. But the users got an expectation that more and more would be added and started to get annoyed as the good stuff increasingly disappeared and the streaming library became increasingly crap-infested.

Now all the content owners are aware of the value of what they're sitting on, at least potentially, and they are going to charge premium prices to Netflix to get access to it. Plus some of them want streaming media of any kind to just go away, they want to live with their old business models, or they're protecting an older form of subscriber-based service (like Starz). Netflix has less cash in the bank than any of the other possible content buyers who have streaming infrastructure who are ALSO now aware of how much consumers like streaming media and they're aware that DVD rental is almost dead because Netflix killed it.

Netflix just did a great job doing proof-of-concept for whatever company it is that ends up being the real streaming-media giant. Netflix is basically the MP3 player that didn't work all that well but convinced Steve Jobs to make an iPod and create iTunes. Probably most of the possible successors to Netflix are just pissed that the company unnecessarily shot its own dick off in such a spectacular way earlier than any of them wanted to make a move.

What Khaldun said. Netflix broke the Blockbuster model of DVD hire, but now is stuck between less interest in DVDs and having to fight content owners for rights to stream desired content. It's a squeeze that they probably can't beat.

I've seen some pieces suggesting that this move sets Netflix up for a sale to someone who wants the brand but could actually afford the content rights, like Google.

Down another 8% already today.   :awesome_for_real:

I wonder if there's some mesh of dvd rental & streaming that could work as the bridge between these two eras.

Yes, exactly.

Netflix never had a product...  their whole business model was based around being a better middleman than video stores and getting in early on streaming content.  Just like video stores, the market is now moving past them as new practices take hold and bargain prices on streaming content go away.  The writing is on the wall, and they need to do something big while they still have some kind of first mover advantage.

Some vestige of Netflix is going to survive at least as a source for old, niche and other content.  But that would be a major contraction for them.


The eventual winner is either going to be your local cable company (who already have the infrastructure, client lists/agreements, and operating agreements with content makers) or the companies that own the rights to the libraries.  Businesses using an agency model (iTunes, what Amazon Prime seems to be) will likely survive as well because they're just acting as the front end for the content providers/owners.

I honestly use the free portion of my cable OnDemand all the time.  It gives you anywhere from a month to an entire season of current TV (though some networks are being stupid), as well as a bunch of free content/movies.  Combined with the package I'm in that gives me a few of the Premium channels, you also get a good roster of recent movies.

The only good thing I can say about Comcast cable is their free OnDemand service provides a lot of content. Of course, some of it has built-in cock-in-ass syndrome (like the Fox stuff you can't fast-forward through) or the selection is limited (like Breaking Bad which only allows 4 episodes at a time so if your shitty DVR ate the other 6 episodes from this season you have to get AAARRR Matey to see the goddamn thing). I mean, it's Comcast. They can't do anything totally right except fuckup.

So what is the next best streaming service for ps3?  Hulu +?  Amazon?

I'd like an answer to that question in relation to the X-Box 360.

Netflix.               :why_so_serious:

TV Everywhere.  The technology for the content creators and owners to manage their work is cheaply available.  No need for the middle to exist.

Netflix's success was always about the amount of content they could lock in with contracts the technical details of how they delivered the content is the most trivial part.  Whatever independent content creator/owners who are standing up and saying "we can do that too!" are missing the point.  They are not going to build a netflix level subscriber base by asking everyone to manage 10 or 15 subscriptions, consumers want a one stop shop and historically the successful 1 stop shops have been brick and mortar rental stores followed by pirating followed by netflix.

Instead of tearing netflix down to build their own solution you would think it would be far more profitable and sensible for everyone involved to use netflix and it's subscriber base as their launching point.  They should not be yanking all their content and looking to host it elsewhere, they should be doing everything they can to talk netflix into creating a premium addon for their library of content, for example if I could upgrade my netflix streaming with individual packages of Stars, HBO, Showtime, ESPN, Disney I would be pretty interested where as I would not be nearly as interested if I had to subscribe to separate services for Stars, HBO, Showtime, ESPN and Disney in addition to managing my netflix subscription.  At this point netflix should be doing everything they can to sell their subscriber base to content creator/owners and unfortunately I just don't see them doing that.

Sounds like TV.


That is unlikely.  Apple and Google have been trying to do the same without much success.

One could even say Apple and Google are content companies now rather then technology ones.

The basic Gordian Knot here is convincing the content owners to come into an arrangement that makes all content available to customers all the time. It's been technically possible for a while, the question is really whether the owners can be convinced that there is some possible arrangement under which they make revenues equal to or greater than what they realize now in a totally fractured and balkanized media/content environment. What makes this worse is that some players have money and are highly motivated to make any unified platform fail because their business model requires balkanization. Others have wildly unrealistic expectations of per-consumption pricing based on old models. (Time-Warner execs recently acknowledged that their whole on-demand model was built around the insane pricing of on-demand porn, and that free porn has pretty much broken every expectation of profitability that they have. So they have to relook at how to make the non-porn content available to people on a model more like Netflix: flat fee, access-at-will.)

The boogeyman that has to be paraded around is that if they don't get a pay platform set up that facilitates content consumption, people are going to pirate like crazy. If you force people to hunt over six services and have ten passwords and eight subscriber fees to see what they want to see, they're going to say: fuck you. Eventually.

HBO started offering their own streaming service: HBO GO (http://www.hbogo.com/)

While it's only available to HBO TV subscribers, I imagine they will soon roll out a monthly-subscription fee for online streaming only.

Exactly, I'm currently on the fence between the following options (mostly because netflix streaming content is getting stale fast):
1 - Try out hulu+ or amazon.
2 - Just do netflix dvd rip and return.
3 - Get back on the torrent bandwagon.

Somebody quite simply needs to roll out a netflix/roku type service that will let me stream everything instantly, on demand (no set times for any shows or commercials).  Let me pick and choose the exact channels I want to have access to (HBO, Starz, Fox, HistoryChannel, etc.), at a small increase (depending on who's content I'm adding) in my monthly rate for each channel I add.  It would be the death of normal TV as we know it, and it would be glorious.  No more giant channel packages with 100 channels I'll never watch.  No more waiting for a certain time to watch a show.  Just exactly the content each individual person wants, delivered to them directly to peruse how they want.

Who ever can do this first wins.  Everything.

Yes. Of course, Comcast, Directv and the other current content providers (whose SOLE PURPOSE is to deliver shit) will fight a la carte pricing to the death. It's more work for them, and it will kill a lot of the fees they currently get, as well as killing a lot of the niche content they have.

My Breaking Bad example above was the most infuriating. See, I had Tivo'ed all the episodes from this season, I just hadn't watched them yet. The shitty Comcast DVR box has like no fucking capacity, so it starts deleting them even though I did ask it not to. With the episodes gone from the Tivo, OnDemand only had 4 of the 10, so I had to go searching for non-legal sources to see the shit. It's not like I wouldn't be willing to watch commercials for the streaming, I would. I would be GIVING them money, either in eyeballs or in sub fees to someone. But they don't want my money unless it's there way.

And that's what will kill Netflix... in addition to their own stupidity.

(http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1593.jpg)

Every time we do an honest evaluation, we can save about 20% off our cable bill by going with a la carte programs on amazon, hulu, and netflix for our "must see" stuff. But that ends up being a 20% savings to cut off 90% of our media options. And I tend to think that's exactly what would happen if we had cable a la carte. It would be a far lower number of channels and we probably wouldn't save that much.

Look at what we do have a la carte. $10 for Gol and Fox Soccer. Another $10 for FSC plus if you're lucky enough to have access at all.

I think by the program/event/whatever through the net is a lot better model for a la carte than cable ever was. There I can see it becoming a more viable option without returning to "the three networks and pbs" that I remember growing up.

Im praying they do!

Youtube has already set the stage for free content and a scalable platform.

Pirate does not work in the long term.  Content creators are already suffering the decline in revenues.   If there is no money the artists do not get paid.  It could go the way of the music industry and maybe all great actors and writers will on be experienced only on live stage shows.

http://www.fox.com/ has a new take on shows.  We are going to find out how it all plays out in the next ten years.

The problem with the independent streaming stuff is most of the people with the money want to watch stuff on their very large tv in the living room, not on their laptop in their dorm room. Netflix had a big advantage here in that it's built into everything and if it wasn't, there's a $50 box that offers it and a lot more.

Well, New Coke wasn't actually a failure, it was just painted as one.  This is different, mostly in that New Coke wasn't the idea of a grocery store but rather the idea of TCCC itself.

I probably should have floated in here and doomcasted on that day when I found I could stream crap from adultswim.com and fx.com instead of Netflix.  I'm actually fine with the content-producers delivering their own shit as long as I can conveniently get it, which makes Roku look great to me.  I was already trying to think of a convenient way to plug amazon.com into my TV since I think I've seen all of the non-crap movies on Netflix streaming at this point.

Also, New Coke tasted like warmed over shit.

So does Qwikster.  :grin:

I've often wondered why Coca-Cola doesn't bring back New Coke for a limited time. It would sell well to 20 somethings that weren't around for the debacle. People would buy it even if it tastes like ass, just like they do with Dr. Pepper.

New Coke was awesome. Pepsi is too sweet, Coke not sweet enough, New Coke was just right :why_so_serious:

Yeah I liked it a lot myself.

All I want is one place on a device I have that I can stream anything I want including current shows. I have the budget of my current cable subscription to spend on this mythical service.

For me, Streaming means two things. No commercials, and watch things when I want to. I refuse to have 5 different streaming accounts or 10 devices. Everyone scrambling to start their own custom service is the best way to alienate someone like me.

Heh, I thought I had told this story already.  You were not supposed to like New Coke, rather you were supposed to be glad to see the version which came immediately after it.

Mulitple devices are the future.

The future is one can be anywhere (home, plane, car, street, coffee shop, etc.) with any device (TV, tablet, phone, etc.) and watch any show.  It will be seamless.  People will have to pay for it.

Screw you.  Dr Pepper is heaven compared to the overly-sweet and overly-carbonated crap that is Pepsi and Coke (although I will drink Coke when DP is not available).

Steam is making game publishers retarded in a similar way.

You shut your whore mouth!

I liked New Coke, but then I prefer Pepsi and like cola to be somewhat sweeter. My preferences are so strong that I haven't bought anything but store brand for the last 20 or so years.

In terms of devices, I don't mind switching from the netflix app to the hulu app on my Roku, but there's a limit to the number of physical devices I'm going to put up with. I only have so many inputs.

This is even more of an issue with non-tech people. When I was on the cable committee the single biggest request we got was that people didn't want to have any sort of set top box at all. (We'd previously had an aging system with the decoders on the poles, so no STB even with premiums.) Just this year, a few towns over, the selectmen called the cable company rep in front of a public meeting and called on them to stop adding new HD content and instead preserve the ability to access basic cable without a STB. (Thankfully comcast told them to stuff it.)

I don't think this is just an age issue either as despite an explanation and a Logitech Harmony that does all the device switching for them, most of our guests have been totally mystified by a fairly simple cable -> receiver -> tv combination. Can't get over needing to turn the stereo on for sound on the tv.

I like 'Mexican' Coke with real sugar.  I get it at Earth Fare.

New Coke wasn't that bad.  Ah, the 80's...

I'm pretty sure he didn't mean devices that way, but a roku, an apple TV and a PS3 all hooked into his TV.


It's not entirely about being techhy or not.  I hate the look of a cable box sitting around my TV and would prefer that they not encode all this shit so my (HD capable) TV is able to decode it on its own.  I also DESPISE that I'm charged $4 a month for something that's required for the service I'm paying for in the first place.   Add fees are one of the most infuriating gimmicks of the last decade.

Plus, I've got a remote that came with my TV.. too bad its useless because I'm required to use the uglier, less-featured and oft-malfunctioning (even after replacement) cable remote.

I would also love to be able to use PIP. Every TV has it, almost no one can use it. It is a crime.

Heathen.

I found out Costco sells 24 packs of the Mexican Coke for $16.

Now if they could make a Mexican Coke with Lime...

Get Mexican coke.  Get knife.  Get lime.  Cut.  Squeeze into drink?

5 steps? Fuck off.

The interesting question is how much would people pay for a monthly service that basically gave you continuous access to almost all content in any media library that was older than six months?

I'd pay $60-75 if it was genuinely comprehensive. I'd probably cancel every other media subscription, in fact, including cable.

http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2011/09/the-food-lab-drinks-edition-is-mexican-coke-better-than-regular-coke-coke-taste-test-coke-vs-mexican-coke.html

I still like Mexican coke since I'd rather drink sugar than HFCS.

Cool little test, but he proved the one important thing -- they taste differently.  And it's that taste which matters to me.  (Just as I found Coke+Lime > Coke.)  But then I'm super-sensitive to sweeteners.  All the artificial ones I've tried taste exceptionally bad to me.

Container does affect the taste, too, but I've known that for decades.

You people keep talking about "Mexican Coke" and I can't help but think "Coke is made primarily in Colombia, you jackoffs."

Then I remember you are talking about the beverage.

Be a man, drink beer.

Does... not... compute...

(http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa68/random256/red_pandas_AND_alcohol_by_luve.jpg)

Cancelled NetFlix entirely today. Haven't been using it much recently lately. Streaming selection too limited in the genres I like.

Yep. To many streaming services right now require unique hardware. Fuck that.

We got cable put back in Tuesday and I just got around to programming the remote for my stuff last night. The new Time-Warner remote is fucking god-awful. Sure, it's nice that I can set it up for my non-tech fiancee, press power and everything turns on/off, volume works the receiver volume, etc (though I can't make the video input switcher work, so the tv remote still sits on the table  :oh_i_see:).

But they have utterly destroyed the ergonomics of it, at least the last iteration had a decent hand; that is, it sat nicely in the hand and the buttons were more or less accessible. Although the last version of that iteration slapped a bunch of TW-specific buttons in the natural thumb spot, you could pretty easily train around it. Now they've ditched the comfort completely, with hard plastic points for a couple inches of flat recess instead of the gentle curve. I'm trying to decide which part I like least: making a giant ON DEMAND section in the center and making the things we actually use (volume/channel; guide/info; DVR controls) out of the "comfort" thumb region...or the fact that they've ditched all the custom larger buttons for said features and made a ton of almost-uniform tiny buttons instead.

We gave in a while back and bought a Logitech Harmony. It's been one of the best splurges we've done.

The latest on netflix is speculation that they split the business not to sell of the DVDs, but to sell off the streaming to Amazon. While it seems strange that an industry leader would sell themselves off, it's the first concept that actually makes splitting off DVDs (rather than slowly winding them down) seem sensible. Apparently the dvd business would be a poison pill for amazon because it would hurt their sales tax battle with the states as netflix has physical infrastructure everywhere.

Interesting theory, but I don't get the branding if that was the case.  I would keep Netflix branded for DVDs and Qwikster (I hate typing that word) for streaming, since if Amazon buys them then streaming will be branded under Amazon, not netflix.

Also, what would amazon actually be buying besides customers?   Amazon has a better network infrastructure, and I would be surprised if they didn't have the clout to negotiate contracts for more streaming content if they wanted to (I get the feeling Amazon Prime isn't fully being pushed internally, because it doesn't seem to be externally advertised much)

'Mexican' Coke is what coke tasted like when I was a kid.  It's how coke should taste - ice cold out of a glass bottle. 

Today's Coke is shit in comparison.  New Coke is an even bigger pile of shit.  Diet Coke is as bad as new coke.

Tweet seen on the day Hastings sent out his stupid email:  "Imagine if @Netflix and Qwikster combined services... unlimited DVD rentals and streaming. Now THAT would be awesome.'

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but I heard an interesting reason for Netflix to spin off the DVD portion of their company.


Source. (http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/09/23/pm-facebooks-new-changes-and-its-goals-for-the-future/)

So it's not so much that they're trying to piss off customers as it is that they're trying to set themselves up to be able to send the information about what you're viewing on Netflix to Facebook.

I'm rather skeptical of that take on it. Seems like an incredibly dumb move for little credible payback.

Sure, let's see how that works out for them.

Here's an article about that very thing - Netflix pairing with Facebook (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-tech/post/netflix-pairs-with-facebook-except-in-us/2011/09/22/gIQAHKQFpK_blog.html).  (Hastings is on the board of FB, by the way).

Seems like it would be cheaper to get the law changed.

It might not be cheaper, but it would keep them from going straight into obscurity.

10 years from now people will be "Hey, you remember Netflix and how cool it was? Whatever happened to them?" at the current rate.

For uninitiated, can you please explain this? Why would you stream to anything but your media PC?

Because for the most part content companies don't want to give full-HD to the PC.  Netflix for a while only had HD on set-top boxes and Vudu's still the same way.

Also because dedicated boxes are usually a shitton easier to deal with, maintain and work with than a goddamn PC for media content? Kind of like how it's easier to own a console than a PC for video games.

I use TiVo to stream Netflix (which I do not recommend, by the way, because the TiVo/Netflix interface stinks), and I like to watch movies in my bedroom.  I don't have a media PC set up yet that is connected to anything other than a monitor at my computer desk.

Netflix Secures Dreamworks Partnership (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/26/netflix-dreamworks_n_980515.html)

So two years from now Netflix might get some decent movies again after losing Disney and Sony in 2012.
 :oh_i_see:

Amazon makes a deal with Fox for streaming. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/26/idUS196078200620110926)

I feel it! The magic free market fairy is sprinkling her pixie-dust upon streaming video services!  :why_so_serious:

Netflix Adds New AMC, IFC, Sundance Channel Content; Now Streaming 'The Walking Dead' And More  (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/07/netflix-walking-dead-ifc-amc_n_999995.html)

I can stop procrastinating on cancelling, then.

I was excited to see The Wonder Years available for streaming. Lasted halfway through the shitty cover of a cover at the opening and then turned it off.

That got a chuckle.

The Wonder Years was good when I was young enough to think Winnie was cute without being a perv.  I cannot imagine having any patience for the show now.

I just said the hell with it myself.  We sit on movies forever anyhow, so screw it, it'll be cheaper to just do the occasional rental instead of paying 23 bucks a month.  Hell, with the money we're saving on downgrading to Netflix's streaming only plan (which is mandatory for the kids programming if nothing else), I can pick up amazon prime as well and still come out well ahead.

I just checked via my Xbox, and no Walking Dead yet.  :sad_panda: :sad_panda: :sad_panda: :sad_panda:

A few years ago Netflix went all social networking with the whole friends, profile, sharing blah blah. And then they removed it. I always thought it was lame that they removed it. Wonder if that is why.

The friends feature was one of my favorite things about Netflix. I think they removed it around a year ago quoting that only something like 2% of people used it.

Maybe it used to be easier to own a console for games, but now that consoles are online it seems like I have to update the friggen PS3 and agree to some new draconion ToS once a week.  There should be some clause where you can return your hardware for a full refund any time they modify the ToS.  I wonder if this constitutes signing under duress "I just wanted to watch my netflix on the device I shelled out $300 for your honor!".

P.S. - In case you can't tell I just had to spend 10 minutes updating my system and now netflix streaming (along with their website) appears to be down, it shouldn't be this hard to watch a movie.

Nobody would use the "Return your device" clause. Moreover, if you've had the damn thing for a few years, it's not like returning it would return both parties to status quo ante.

I agree that clickwrap licenses are bogus, but our courts support them. If anything, we need some federal statutes that regulate EULAs and TOSes in general. This will never happen in our lifetimes, but I can dream.

I'm so far pleased with the potential of my Roku 2, even if I've only watched some old Muppets internet shorts.  Amazon Prime streaming will be fantastic once I get tired of Dark Souls.  It doesn't support AVI, though.

Qwikster is dead. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-20117888-261/netflix-cancels-qwikster-spinoff/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20)

/thread

What a clusterfuck of a company.  Bad management and indecisive.

How much money did they pay some consulting firm to come up with the Qwikster name/logo too? Usually those things are both ridiculously expensive and terrible.

Disagree, its better to revert bad decision than to follow through with it.

I agree that it's a good decision to revert back, but it clearly shows they don't have any idea how to proceed with the company and have no decisive idea for the future.  By It I don't mean just this discussion but the whole sequence of bad decisions of the past weeks.

It's being spun the opposite way by what I'd just heard.  Quickster was the way of proceeding forward, because DVDs are a 'living-dead' medium.  This was Netflix's way of being able to cut it loose without affecting their new core business model (streaming).  When DVDs were finally dead* then Quickster would have been closed without much kerfuffle about "what will Netflix do now?" The fuck-up was that it was poorly handled and overly burdensome on the consumer.  It made things more complex on the consumer while making things simpler for investors/ the company.   

Plus it's way, WAY too early in streaming's life to make such plans.  Death of DVDs and physical medium is, IMO,  still 10-20+ years away. Sorry we just don't have the 'net infrastructure to kill them entirely.  Major cities? Sure.  You've still got rural regions outlying those cities and (for you "stop growing food, we don't need farmers" idiots) large portions of the US where such streaming services are going to run into the bandwidth caps that are becoming more prevalent.

I think they got cocky.  Now they got their realty check I expect good things.  Still doesn't change the fact that big media is swinging for their balls and having the DVD and Streaming tried together makes them easier target.

Reed Hastings has always been cocky.  Arrogant too.  His earlier success was more luck than brilliance, but he mistakenly thought the opposite.  He doesn't quite get that what the customers value is not what the shareholders value.

Blockbuster has done a much better job in the latter half of this war than the first half, for sure.

Whatever they paid it is still a drop in the bucket compared to the $5 billion in market cap lost from that announcement and it doesn't appear like the stock is going recover any significant portion of that even with today's announcement.

What is redbox doing right that blockbuster did wrong?  Or is it just not having a full store they are paying rent for?

I think it's the ease of just having it there when you walk into the grocery store, McDonald's or whatever. Kind of like buying chocolate and soda in the checkout line. What's an extra dollar for a movie when you're already at the store.

A) Redbox not having stores means they do not have to have as much in the way of staff (a couple of guys can cover all the machines in a good sized city by themselves, a single Blockbuster store probably had 12 people on payroll at a minimum). The other operating overhead of rent/utilities/etc. not being there helps a lot too.
B) Redbox does not carry a very large selection.

At the moment, robots are less assholey than teenage humans.  Also, robots are much cheaper than humans.  For one thing, they don't require expensive health insurance.

Netflix started out targeting this new technology, DVDs, and a big part of that was being a place where you can get everything that was out at the time on DVD instead of the Top 10 that Blockbuster had in DVD, forcing you to watch everything else on VHS. For me at least, a big part of netflix appeal was that it had everything. Same appeal that Amazon had. No more going to Blockbuster/Borders and finding out they didn't have what you wanted.

Redbox did the opposite. They came in once the tech was common and have grabbed the least common denominator top 10 crowd. Netflix probably wasn't even competition, the average redbox customers probably weren't going to spring for a monthy fee anyway.

BTW DS9 is on streaming. I remember some people asking where it was. I had the same reaction to it as I had 20 years ago, it made me want to watch B5 which has been removed from streaming. That's a big issue on the streaming thing. Stuff comes which is great, but it also goes and it is very very annoying to sit down to watch something you could the previous day and have it be gone.

When it was announced, Netflix' stock started trading up 3%.  It's now ending the day at -4.77%.  As a comparison, the market as a whole is up 3%.

My local grocery store has Blockbuster boxes - so Block-b (as my kid used to call it, or simply "the buster") is now competing with Redbox.  Our local Blockbuster closed a few years ago, but I think there's one across town still.

I meant the original Qwikster announcement.

Edit: I

Seems like the stock has just gone back to normal.

More clownshoes from Netflix from their earnings call last night.

They lost 800k subscribers from their stupidity, and predict they will be running in the red for a few quarters due to their expansion into Ireland and the UK.  When the CEO was asked why they chose UK and Ireland, he responded with:


So, essentially Netflix thinks that even though Sky Movies has long and good relations with content providers, they think they can get a better deal and be cheaper than Sky can possibly go.  And this is where they are putting a huge investment in.

Oh yeah, and they predict that subscriptions in the US will go up next quarter despite price increases.

Meanwhile, in reality land, their stock price is down 37% to 74 since yesterday, the first time it's been down below 100.

Wall Street is not reality land.

Yeah, the funny part about their stock price tanking (besides the "fuck with your customers, they will fuck back" lesson) is that Netflix still MADE A PROFIT. But profits aren't what Wall Street wants, they want expectation of stock price rises in the future, which is so decoupled from actual business that it might as well be making bets on sleestack races on Jupiter.

We don't have investors anymore, just stock jobbers.

Hell, even my boss who had been evangelizing for how great netflix is for a couple years has dropped Netflix. When he had to chose between dvds and streaming or twice the price, he just dumped it all. Everyone I've spoken to about netflix has either dropped their sub, or reduced it.

Normally I would agree with you (especially when you look at Microsoft's stock price) but it's justified this time.  Just because Netflix made a profit still doesn't mean they are headed in a direction to keep making profits.  The subscriber losses were near the end of the quarter, so the full effects of it won't be fully felt until next quarter.  They are spending massive investments on expanding streaming internationally when they have proven to not be able to gain or retain streaming content deals domestically.  Not much points to "Netflix will continue operating successfully in the future" much, and thus I think this is one of the few times that a stock drop is warranted.

800K is a lot of customers, but that's only ~3% of the ~25M customers they still have.

They're still the market leaders in streaming video -- yeah, I know there are other alternatives, but none IMV rival the 8$ a month and device ubiquity (on just about every device and OS -- PS3, XBox, Wii, Roku, AppleTV, OS X, PC, iOS, Android, etc.…).

But if they stagnate and do not grow library while others jump into the market, it might be doom for them. And they might be hopelessly constrained by the movie studio houses and other forces (like Apple and others reliant upon streaming rentals and online purchases).

I liked how one of their reasons for going into the UK was, "There's already a number of popular and free streaming services so it's clear people like streaming. We're just going to the same thing but not free."

We dropped it, but not due to the fiasco. We just re-upped cable for the winter. I intend on picking up netflix again next summer unless they fuck something else up. Since we weren't using DVDs (lol DVD resolutions), the decoupling didn't affect me at all.

At some point, the content creators are going to pull their heads out of their asses and realize they can do this themselves.  It seems to me that the only reason Netflix exists today is that the same content creators can't bring it upon themselves to cut their prices on their own.

They already are. But see my point a few pages back. I refuse to have accounts with 5 streaming services. I can't be alone in that.

I don't need an account to watch ABC programming on abc.com, or CBS on their website, etc...

I'm talking about HBO, Starz and Showtime like services.

Or the cable companies and dish companies are going to say, "You give us the rights to digitally distribute this as well as show it on your channel, or we can drop you."

I don't know where else to ask this so I'll ask here.

I want to be able to stream old HBO shows to my tv.  I have a TiVo with Comcast digital cable (HD) connected to my television.  I don't have an iPhone (although everyone else in my household does) or an iPad, but HBO Go sounds sort of like what I want except for the streaming to TV thing.  HBO On Demand seems lacking in old content - they seem to only have a very limited amount of things available.  Regular HBO allows for current series plus whatever movies and so on that HBO decides to put on their channels.

Netflix doesn't stream old HBO shows.

Torrent + media server.   :awesome_for_real:

If you have Comcast you'll want Xfinity TV. HBO Go doesn't work if you have Comcast or another cable provider that has its own HBO on demand system. There's Xfinity TV apps for iOS and you can use them to stream to your TV using something like AirPlay or an special HDMI cable for the iPad 2. Or you could hook your computer up to your TV.

I think I have Xfinity.  I think I need to hook up a computer to my TV in order to get all that I want on my TV.

Like minecraft amirite?

Netflix is on the march again. This time Reed Hastings has declared that their main ambition is to get out of streaming other companies content altogether and just become another cable content provider like HBO. More or less.

This is seriously marching to the head of the line of the most spectacular self-inflicted wounds in the history of business.

The fake Reed Hastings in Conan's sketch last night was eerily close to how Netflix must feel about customers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWYA753fBOY&feature=plcp&context=C3bd4201UDOEgsToPDskKrKcg1CjrXjHm6PTIIiivi

Not sure where they're going with this actually, as they did something quite similar to that I thought with the Red Envelope stuff and that just sort of stopped.  And now they have that new show.

And where the hell is my game rentals package...

They canceled it after they killed Qwikster.

YOU MONSTERS

I have trouble thinking of any company in recent history that has so thoroughly stomped on its own dick like this.  They were on top of the fucking world.  How did they go from such an intelligent model to all this pants-on-head stuff?

The content companies started demanding a lot higher share of the revenues and Netflix had no idea how to leverage their position to push back, so instead they said "Fuck it, let's try something else."

Someone said before Netflix's success was more luck and being ignored for too long than actual guile and their stumbling just shows that's correct.

Netflix is doing quite well.  Expectations for Netflix were completely out of touch with reality for while.  The bungling from this summer caused everyone to return to their senses.  Just remember the  people who lobbied to censor the internet are same people Netflix has to negotiate content deals with.

>Netflix had no idea how to leverage their position to push back
Basically Apple could do this because it had a monopoly on a dominate platform.

 :awesome_for_real:

So wait... he's going to have Netflix only stream a certain set of content, and stop streaming movies and TV shows that he doesn't own the rights to? Or.. what?

Did he take crazy pills? And if not, shouldn't he?

Netflix succeeded because it saw a need and filled that need better than anyone. If they couldn't leverage the very pervasive ubiquity of their service into a better deal with the content providers, they are run by fucking idiots.

I am being heavily recruited by trotski to give up Netflix altogether and go with Amazon Prime. I will have to set my TV up to stream it and see how easy it is to use- need it easy enough to use for my mom to do it for my son. Although he will probably be teaching me how to do this stuff in a year or two  :awesome_for_real:

So I suspect it's right to think that behind the scenes the scenario is roughly like this:

CONTENT PRODUCERS: Congratulations, you have won our little Hunger Games, Mr. Netflix. Your strategy of hiding under the stairs and shooting all the other contestants as they ran by was brilliant.

NETFLIX: Why thank you sirs. Now that I am the last survivor, I assume I get to join the shadowy true rulers of our world?

CONTENT PROVIDERS: Why, no, Mr. Netflix, we expect you to die! Or at least, pay us enough money to compensate us for your murder of the profitable DVD business.

NETFLIX: But you had me kill them! Mr. Starz gave me the poison!

CONTENT PROVIDERS: Quite right.  They were...unready to use the new weapons that content ninjas must now employ. Not that we know much about them, either.

NETFLIX: So, suppose I tell you to go fuck yourselves?

CONTENT PROVIDERS: In Zimbabwe, do you know what is on television? Robert Mugabe's speeches and Australian soap operas. Do you think your subscribers will enjoy these things? Because they are very affordable to you.

NETFLIX: I'm going to make my own content then. And next I will be making bubble wrap and sandwiches if this doesn't work out.



----

That said, Reed Hastings is pretty obviously an idiot fuckmonkey. If he had any business being in business, he would say, "Ok, fine, shitheads. Let's see how many of the people who are loving your content and buying all sorts of secondary value around it will love it when they have to pay $6.99 per view on Comcast and Verizon for it. Guess what: the only content you have worth that price is content that people already own in their DVD collections or content that they'll pirate. Guess how much value you'll lose from not allowing people to discover stuff and promote it the way that the Onion A.V. and other online sites do? Lots of value. So here's my puckered asshole, and go ahead and kiss it. See you in five years when you're on your knees begging to get back in."

Instead he pretty much has decided to say, "Yes, boss, whatever you say, boss." And then to say to the public, "Hey, look, a steaming pile of shit! We love shit and so should you! It is delicious and we will soon call it by another company name."

Eh?

The problem is that Netflix DVD wing is basically buggy whips, and on the streaming side they are a small fry compared to Cable, Amazon, and Itunes.  To make at as the internet middleman, you have to either be so large you have monopsony power or be vertically (be a major content producer) integrated or have the internet side as a portion of your horizontal strategy (Apple with iproducts, Amazon with everything else).

As Netflix is none of those, they are going away.  The swings in announced plans are them realizing that they are fucked, and that they have to have a Plan B or they are all out of jobs.  Their whole streaming business model was an all-or-nothing roll of the dice:  either corner the market and be Amazon, where you have the market power to dictate to the content makers, or don't and go away.

If anything, this is another take away about the health of subscription models versus reasonable pay as you go models.  I know the posters here tend to be the type of person who will maximize their value from a subscription, but for most people?  That's $10 (or whatever a real monthly price is rather than a price based on getting free product) or $20 that is more effectively spent in other places, if you are only consuming a couple of things a month.


Huh? 

More than likely, we are going to see a continuation of the way things have been going:  older stuff is low cost or free, new stuff gets sold for a couple of bucks an episode... and pirating and a switch to more people using streaming will probably knock that price down more.  The difference is that the content producers will be pocketing more of the money from the older stuff rather than letting an internet company that doesn't actually do anything make that money.

Both Amazon and Itunes have more market penetration, and FAR more casual consumers who will shell out a buck or two while they're online shopping for books or songs or whatever.  The subscription plan is not a viable mass market approach, as it locks out anyone who isn't sure they are going to consume at least the amount they are paying each month.

Right, because cable was a total failure using that approach.  :why_so_serious:

The only thing I can see saving netflix streaming is if they introduce some sort of addon/upgrade/channel model (or the content owners change their greedy little minds).  I would pay extra for streaming all HBO or Showtime content for netflix package (even if it was everything but current season).  If they could get live streaming or even a few hours delay on live and offer local news and sports I'd pay quite a bit for that as it would make it very easy to tell the cable co to fuck off.  For many sporting events the netflix model makes way more sense than a few dedicated cable channels, no longer at the mercy of the broadcaster to pick which match ups will be shown in a tournament just make all the match ups available on demand.

If HBO or Showtime were to show-up on Netflix, you can bet your ass it would be for more than the $9 or $10 a month it should cost and probably even more than the $16/month that adding it to cable costs and for less content.   

People would pay more in a subscription for comprehensive content bundling, for sure. But I think they are also going to be increasingly unwilling to pay much for unbundled content past a short period of first-viewing. Hollywood still operates in an imagined world where most unbundled content is supposed to be worth something on a continuously renewed basis, where the long tail is filled with nothing but detritus and bottom-feeding.

I have said it before, and say it again. I have my entire cable TV budget to toss at someone who gives me ONE streaming service. Not 5.

I got a notice in the mail that my apartment complex is no longer offering free cable as of the end of March. Time Warner reps will be on site to sign people up for service, I can't wait to not answer the door.

You got free cable?!?!?!?!?!

Yep but now that the NFL season is over the receiver rarely gets turned on. Everytime I do it's nothing but Friends on every other channel.

that is the most fucked up part about this, the content owners see the internet as an opportunity to get you to pay for their content again.  until they start seeing it as an alternative (instead of in addition) to cable we are all fucked.

But it is a substitute. We're moving to a world where you watch movies / shows on demand, not when scheduled by stations / content providers. If you have a streaming service, you are probably not going to be buying DVDs, or watching the show if it comes on TV and broken up by ads because you can watch it whenever you want. That's less ways to earn revenue (and I know that it is popular sentiment to say, "Screw the studios! Let them earn less!" but that is people out of work in those areas and we still love our US$100m blockbuster nerd films that are funded under the current model).

That's the future - a reduction in the number of ways people watch things (i.e. pulling back to cinema launches, then streaming, and less revenue from TV rights, DVD sales, etc). After severely underestimating how the internet could impact on movie / show distribution channels, the entertainment industry isn't going to let that happen again. There's a realisation that being in the content distribution business is a better bet than being in the content creation business. But the studios have a lot of content to sell, so they have that advantage at least (until they sign away those rights to distribute to someone else).

If you are looking for a single streaming provider (and that's yet another example of how people are happy to support a monopoly if it means they only have to remember one password) it will have to be a big player such as iTunes, maybe Google, or some kind of partnership involving a tech backbone provider and the big studios. But it's more likely there will be 3 - 4 players each distributing their own limited content from one or two studios.

It doesn't help that half of US households with broadband also need a basic cable sub.   The cable companies can use that against the content providers, particularly since they have monopolies and have consolidated into a few huge semi-national providers vs. numerous regional ones.   It's been ugly enough with networks negotiating vs. being blacked-out by a cable company as it is.  Think it would get any better if even a large name like HBO said "Hey, I'm going to start providing content to Amazon for their Streaming-cable-like service!"

Goldrush Alaska is awesome.

I don't know if this is the right place to discuss this, but how does Comcast get away with having an Xbox Infinity on demand app that doesn't count against your 250g data cap?

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/124041-the-new-comcast-xbox-xfinity-app-is-the-first-nail-in-net-neutralitys-coffin (http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/124041-the-new-comcast-xbox-xfinity-app-is-the-first-nail-in-net-neutralitys-coffin)

And do I really have to hook up an old computer to my TV in order to get to watch TV shows over the internet? I understand that devices made for that (Roku) are having channels blocked by Comcast (like HBO Go). Gah.

They will just argue that the comcast on demand stuff never leaves their internal network, and thus doesn't count against your cap.

I honestly don't get the point of having an into-the-home streaming service when you already have on demand (and you need to have an on demand package in order to qualify for the streaming service).

Returning to netflix, we are just now watching Game of Thrones on DVD from netflix and I noticed that they have apparently chosen not to get blu rays for the series. The DVD quality is just fine on my 720p tv, but I am paying the extra $3/month to get blu rays. (Or more accurately, I have been, I just cancelled it.)

Are blu-rays out for it yet?

Yeah, they came out March 4, same date the dvd's did.

30-day moratorium on the blu-rays probably.

I didn't want to start a new thread for this, but holy shit I love the Roku.  Just installed one last night.  I thought streaming to my 27" monitor was nice, but it cannot come close to 46" 1080p.

How can anyone say Netflix is dead?  The Amazon Prime selection is good, but Netflix is cheap to add a lot of incremental content.

I'd say it depends on if you like what they are offering.

It's perfect for us -- it's got a backlog of shows I want to catch up on, but don't necessarily need to be up-to-date on. I've got a LOT of stuff I want to watch that's either off the air or on seasons 3+.

80% of what we watch comes from Netflix. It'd be 95% streaming from them if I had the bandwidth for the other two TVs (and a device to stream netflix to).

But, you know, I still haven't finished season one of Game of Thrones and I haven't seen season 2 of Sherlock and, well, I do miss a lot. But for 8 bucks a month, Netflix is a hell of a lot more bang for my buck than basic cable.