f13.net

I had only heard a little bit about invisibility cloaks a long while ago, it seems.  From my understanding it comes down to using lenses to distort light around an object and then refocus it behind the object so that  you don't see what's in the middle.  Apparently you can also use this to make one object look exactly like another.  Pretty awesome, eh?

Well, some genius has figured out that because light and time have some sort of electromagnetic similarity you can do the same with time.
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26992/

Article says they can only create 'holes' in time for up to 120nano seconds right now.  BUT.. they expect to be able to expand that as the tech is explored.  Fucking incredible.

Yeah, but it's still not sonic.

The comments...they read like time cube.

The object in the 'cloak' isn't stopping for 120ns, it's just the light shining on (well, off) the object that is being time-shifted due to the lens.  Because of the shift it's like they edited out a 120ns part of the light incident/reflected off of the object

inc Hounds of Tindalos

So in essence they are lagging the server?

Wonderful, give them 10 years to mess with the technology, and people IRL will be griefing us with Visual Rubber Band Lag.

Another blow to conservation of information.

I do not comprehend, how can you manipulate time?

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

You don't. You manipulate light.

Like the blog post says, the dispersion of light through space and the dispersion of light over time are indistinguishable at the quantum level. That's the practical application of the Uncertainty Principle and General Relativity. The fabric of the universe is "space-time", and it's just a matter of perspective whether you're bending one or the other. The original "invisibility cloak" made the light take slightly longer to arrive at the opposite side of its hidden compartment than if it had simply passed straight through.

It was also a "time cloak", so to speak. These new lenses just focus (lawl) more on delaying the light than producing an undistorted image at the other end.

You do.  That's what the theory of relativity says.

Energy and mass and gravity and time are all related.

Personally I think this could lead to even more discussions over whether quantum theory is or is not bullshit.

What?

Seriously what? Green text I hope.

Not exactly. The theory of relativity says that there's no universal time or space to bend; they're entirely subjective.

You're trying to turn this into some sort of Schrödinger's Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal. If it's valid to say that a time lens bends time, then it's equally valid to state that a pair of spectacles bends space. Just like you can hide a penny under a glass of water via diffraction, you can hide a few nanoseconds from observation using the dispersion effect of an electro-optic modulator. Any event which occurs during that fraction of a second, just like the penny, is still right wherever and whenever you left it.

Some people, outliers as far as I know, think quantum theory is dumb because it involves a different set of rules than the macro universe.  Personally I think we can get a lot of info from this tech either way.  Also, I am not a theoretical physicist, so straighten up your pocket protectors.

Honestly, I've always been more comfortable with quantum theory (what little of it I've been exposed to) than the weirder aspects of relativity.  The whole time=space thing, the idea that sequential events are not objectively sequential, it all seems way weirder than quantum physics, where I can just do the math and say that it works without having to imagine it working on something I can see or touch.

Yes.  that's right.  Mass doesn't get a pass at not interacting with the universe because it's shaped like a pair of spectacles.  If the sun bends space (a measurable effect shown experimentally) then so do spectacles.  Just a very small amount.

Mass IS energy.  Mass bends space.  Energy bends space.  Bent space is distorted time.  Mass and energy distort time.

As far as quantum theory goes, there have been many experimental results since the 50's that confirm predictions made with the theory.  It's about as controversial as gravity.

Are you talking about the Mass Effect?  That was done by the Protheans, dude.

Mass and energy distort your relative conscious perception of time, not time itself... which still has yet to be proven even to exist.  Hay, ever wonder what happened to "time" beyond the CMB?
It's equally likely all that ever was, is, and will be exists simultaneously in this giant computational multiiverse...  therefore time is perhaps but a function of "making sense of it all" through whatever level of sentience you may have.

Theoretically, you'd have just an easy a time manipulating "space-time" by altering the way your consciousness interacts with the universe (assuming the conscious mind is a quantum computer).

Relativity specifically says there's no such thing as "time itself". Time is just an aspect of velocity, which is itself just a part of momentum. Light's velocity is a fixed constant while the distance it travels and the time it requires to travel vary from observer to observer. Every particle is an observer, and every one behaves as if it has no velocity or momentum. Each remains eternally still while every force interaction it observes sends the whole universe whizzing off in new directions.

So a lens can alter an observers' perception of time, but it doesn't alter time. There is no spoon.

Well, I'll make my retort "simple."  Assume for a second that the holographic universe theory is true.  Or even that the universe exists due to one single electron.   Still think time actually exists?  Further, if there are "many worlds," how is time even truly a function of their existence save to bring understanding?

Brane theory?  Space-Time (as we perceive it) literally is frozen in the synapses between universes, yet they still may collide and interact gravitationally.

Above all this, it may take 3 quadrillion "years" for 2 branes to collide, but I could translate my consciousness to perceive that as one Earth "second" and another Big Bang could occur right after this post.  Take it further and reside your consciousness in between these universes and all of a sudden Time has no meaning whatsoever except to yourself likely (assuming the physics in such a space would even allow it, which is not likely)... a million years in 1 verse is 1 milicycle in another.  



There's some science that is now looking at lightspeed as it relates to spatial "densities" instead of space-time.  For instance, if our universe is a bubble within another larger bubble, light would travel the larger bubble the same relative speed as it does in ours, but that light-information actually travels relatively FASTER in our bubble as it travels across the larger one.  In this way, lightspeed is broken.  I believe this was a thought on how "spooky action at a distance" actually occurs.  Qbits and such are balled up in higher dimensional spaces wherein they dont actually violate the speed of light since the spatial densities are way way less.  As such, gravity also means way way less since there's not enough to interact with.

IF, however, you just wanted a simple expanation for how this time-lens deletes short-duration events: Imagine a magnifying glass. When you look through the glass you see part of the world increased in size, but there is an area surrounding that magnified spot which is occluded by the glass and thus completely invisible to you. Light reflecting off of it is diffracted away from your eyes.

In much the same way, a time lens allows the light from short-duration events to diffuse on its way through an electric field. Nothing on the far side of the field will see them. Longer duration events are slightly distorted (I imagine they're dimmer, for example).

Heh, I was actually going to ask if you'd read "The Holographic Universe" or whatever that book was (IIRC it's got a quote on the cover like "finally, a single bold theory that unifies quantum mechanics with astrology!").  I thought what you were saying sounded familiar.

The best part about time and relativity is the properties of the apparent flow of time as it pertains to gravitational singularities.

I need to go shave my neck again after reading this thread.

What the hell?!  Y'all need to stop raping physics!

Did anyone read the article?!  This has nothing to do with quantum mechanics or relativity.  It's just EM.  They are using an electro-optic modulator... :| ... they are using this thingee that causes light to slow down when they apply a voltage, they use the inverse of that on the other side of the object.  At the point in time that they want to "destroy time" they turn the lenses on.  The light train gets crunched and expanded and BECAUSE THERE IS A LAG IN THE LIGHT WHEN THE FORWARD LENS IS FIRST TURNED ON, time disappears - EXCEPT IT'S NOT TIME, IT'S THE FRONT PART OF THE LIGHT TRAIN and it doesn't disappear, it just takes a couple nanoseconds for it to work it's way through the forward thingee, but because they reverse the process (ok, this part is interesting, I don't know how they do that) on the other side you don't notice the gap.

Time in no way is manipulated, hurt, offended or effected in any of this.  It's a trick that is possible because there are materials who's index of refraction can be changed via an applied voltage.

We know, we just like to inflict mind wounds on Samwise.

Fuck you... I want a TARDIS god damn you.

You only perceive time as stopping (from an outside observation) because the light at the event horizon is frozen.
Supposedly though, you can ride a "closed time loop" if you can magically fly around the singularity in stable fashion.   :oh_i_see:
And unicorns are real in someone's universe somewhere, somehow, sometime.

Personally, this closed time loop crap seems fishy to me.  I prefer to think of them as gateways to alternate continuums.  You ride one (or sit inside the vortex perhaps) and pop out on an alternate 'verse from the one you started at an apparent different point in time.  To further blow your mind though, assume they did exist and we could build one...  this means you could put one on a ship, set the ship in motion, hit the timeloop, and effectively travel instantaneously to any point in the universe.  Millions of lightyears would pass in a blink of your eye, then you could wind back the time when you reached your destination.  There would be no need for wormholes even.

Excuse me, I'm going to have eaten some popcon tomorrow.

So, since light travels fastest in a vacuum, and slower in a denser medium, and with it being a universal constant... so that really it's time that moves faster or slower in a vacuum or in a swimming pool... If I lived on the bottom of the ocean I could live forever?

It would explain why regular swimmers live longer (http://www.silverplanet.com/health/fitness/water-exercises/swimmers-live-longer/53905)

It would have to be an infinitely deep (and dense) ocean... like a singularity.

Plus you wouldn't enjoy the neurological problems that go along with that.  Supposedly one of the Duke University dive team guys who used to do extreme depth simulated dives would flop over onto the ground every time someone would hit the lights, and his brain was full of lesions from barotrauma.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baOKDlM-CNs

The theory is that either the vestibular system, the nerve endings within, or the connection to the brain (via the spinal column, AFAIK) were pinched.  So, not a seizure, just whenever you removed or significantly interfered with his ability to see the brain had no fucking clue which way was up and hilarity ensued.

I was picturing http://youtu.be/we9_CdNPuJg , personally.

I'd believe it after dealing with an ear infection and BPPV the last month.

After browsing this thread, I feel we are closer to a Grand Unified Theory than ever.

No, because that includes gravity. Nobody bends gravity.

Even in Soviet Russia?

Nope, nor in Finland, nor the US of A. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Podkletnov)
Not with reliably reproducable results, anyway.

Weäve been bending gravity for years in Finland. We call it olut.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2684/4256427608_b6e045702f.jpg)

There is no such thing as gravity, only K, the ever increasing pressure of nothing, fighting to advance entropy by either making everything infinitely far apart or force it out of this universe altogether (there might not be a difference).

I'm only slightly paraphrasing a theory that is becoming increasingly popular in theoretical physics/cosmology.

--Dave

We say atoms are bound by
Weak Attractions.
Why not admit the Truth:
The Universe is held together by Love.

(I think that's from Andromeda)

Time and the passage of it are relative to who's observing what when. That hardly means time doesn't exist or that it isn't manipulated. It's called space-time for a reason. Two atomic clocks, one in orbit and the other at sea level, will differ as to how much time has passed with the one in orbit showing slightly faster. This is due to them differing on how deep in earths "gravity well" the clocks are. This is a cold hard consequence of relativity which has been experimentally tested and confirmed.

Speed = Distance/Time. Speed is a constant, C, which is the same to all observers. If you bend light, causing it to travel a larger distance than the shortest distance from A to B, the only other variable that can give is time. Speed is constant to all observers. Increase distance, time will have to compensate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity)

Time is relative just as motion is relative. Relative to the sun earth travels around it at a certain speed. Relative to the center of the galaxy, earth travels around the core at a much larger speed. Relative to another galaxy or some distant place in the universe, the earth could be travelling at a significant fraction of C. Whatever motion and speed we assign to the earth relative to that distant place can just as validly be stated with the earth at rest and the distant point travelling at a significant fraction of C.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33271127/baked.jpg)

(http://dmitrybrant.com/images/generay.jpg) (http://www.timecube.com)

What do you do again? I remember it being something real cool and science like.

This is something they have to take into account with GPS satellites and shit right? Where without the correction the system would become utterly useless like less then a week or whatever.

I prefer Dunbar theory of time, and this thread just added couple years to my life. I should re-read it carefully.