f13.net

Everyone can probably sympathize with me wanting to get rid of my cable bill.  It's gone from 100 to 180 without any service changes over the last few years and I'm sick of it.  I also find myself not watching much TV at all in any case and almost everything I watch is via DVR.  So what do I need cable for?  Pfft.

So I really didn't want to bother with creating a dedicated media PC from scratch, so I did a bit of googling and came across a few popular alternatives and the one that came on top is Boxee Box.

I'm about to pull the trigger, I was hoping I could get some other people's experience with the software or hardware.  I'm thinking getting something simple like Netflix and also using some of the plugins and streams you can find on the net to supplement everything my cable does would be perfect.

The only solution I don't have yet is getting local channels (CBS, FOX, ABC) for NFL games during the season, as that is the only live TV I usually watch.  So I'm probably going to invest in an indoor HDTV antenna for my apartment.

So anyone go cable-free and use this solution?

We're cable-free for about two or three months, now. Mostly using Hulu for the dinner-time fix, but it's sooo limited. Hulu Plus doesn't look much better and Netflix won't tell you what you get with a sub (though I'm trying to convince her it's worth a month to explore). I'm jamming with all ten season of SG-1.

But ultimately we will go back to cable this winter. The internet options are just too limited, and we now have to watch ads. We've already missed a ton of content we want to see (fucking Louie, ffs). Hell, the other day she was cheering because Hulu actually picked up a (single) episode of Cops.

I'm just using my gaming pc.

Currently I'm using a PS3, but I want something that can do streams better.  Also, I have other solutions for TV shows.

Also, can't you just do a netflix free trial?   :awesome_for_real:  and in any case, I think the monthly sub is like 8 bucks.

edit:
Here's what you get with the streaming:
http://www.netflix.com/BrowseSelection

Let me know how that HD antenna works. I am doing the PC only thing right now. Hulu is ok, considering I have not watched tv in years and all the old stuff is new to me. However, college football is soon approaching and I figure it'd be cheaper to invest in a TV and antenna then to hop over to the bar every Saturday and drop money on beers...

My brother got a Boxeebox a couple of months ago and he says it works perfectly. He's even planning to subscribe to one of those 10 buck a month VPN services so he can disguise himself as American and use Hulu and American Netflix.

Like I said, pretty limited. But Louie will convince her.

Is it HD or just the ol' 480p?

Digital antennas will depend on the same stuff as analog antennas did.  The biggest factors being how much you spend to get a decent antenna, what's your sight line and how are you from the signal source.  I'm not going to be picking-up Dayton channels any time soon with Digital, unlike the analog days when I got all Cincinnati and Dayton, and when I lived near a relay antenna near the campus I got a few static-laiden Columbus stations, too.

The one that probably hurts people - based on what I've read about 'cutting the cord' - the most is wanting to cheap-out.  I don't think you need to buy top of the line, but go for a decent midrange brand at least.

I keep wanting to do the same, but the phone + cable + Internet bundle is still cheaper than going phone & internet from separate places.  Plus, they're a hell of a lot more reliable than the limited number of other ISPs I have to chose from.

Antennas can vary in quality and power but they can all pick up HD channels. It doesn't have to be an "HD" antenna, that's just marketing crap. Also, there's no difference between digital and analog antennas, still marketing. If you have any old antenna around try that before you buy a new one.

www.espn360.com for all your college football needs.  It's awesome.

On antennas:  I don't have any old ones.  I saw a review on one that's pretty small and only 44$ from amazon.  Might give it a shot. 

As said above, be prepared to get what you pay for.  A cheap antenna far from any source with line of sight issues is going to be an exercise in frustration.

I'm 15 miles west of NYC.  Shouldn't have any source issues.

Go to the signal locator at tvfool.com (http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29) and punch in your info. This will tell you up front what you can expect for over the air reception. I spent about 70 bucks on my antenna and never looked back, but location is everything.

As far as a streaming device, I'm perfectly happy with Netflix via Xbox or PS3. I've never cared much about current TV shows and Netflix has way too much content for me to ever run dry. Besides, if it's not available streaming, I can always have the BluRay/DVD shipped for the newer stuff (once it's been released). As others mentioned, I tried Hulu Plus for the free week but found it didn't really offer much of interest to justify another sub.

I'm curious on the note regarding 'something that can do streams better than PS3'... do you mean streaming from a remote PC or network drive? I find PS3 and Xbox stream pretty good quality with my setup of Clearwire 4G for internet, wireless lan in basement w/router on 3rd floor, projecting 110" 16:9 screen.

After we moved last time (about a year ago) we just didn't get cable installed.  Between Netflix and various other things you can stream without anything special, we haven't missed it.

Boxee has an amazing feature that no other device I've seen has, good scraping.

The Boxee interface has streaming shows provided by the local channels and sites that will populate content in addition to your local media. So their back end services scrapes local broadcaster affiliates and will stream via flash the content via its built in browser. It's very seamless and works well. For an episode it will give you choices if multiple providers are detected (hulu/scrape/local media) giving you direct control over the media playback.

There was huge problems and bad reviews with release because they switched from a customized Mozilla browser to webkit on launch day  :uhrr:.  There's been updates fixing things along the way but a friend reports there's still issues with Youtube playback. Also its almost a year from launch and they have yet to still update the desktop version to the Boxee box version. It's quite sad how they have treated the HTPC community who has been their main users/testers.

I've done the HTPC route with XBMC/Boxee/XBMC and currently on an Apple TV2 rooted. You can pick them up cheap refurbished (http://"http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/ipod/apple_tv") and then load XBMC or Plex.

For live content or sporting I know Boxee has CenterIce pass support for NHL, you might also find some luck in the Justin TV/Ustream  addons for the live-streaming content. Also Sickbeard (http://sickbeard.com/) is quite possibly the best "Internet" PVR out there.

That website doesn't paint a complete picture of Netflix's selection unless you use the "search" option pretty exhaustively.  For a better idea of what is actually offered streaming with the service check out instantwatcher.com (http://instantwatcher.com/).  The selection is often pretty staggering. 

Yeah, this.  It doesn't begin showing you a really exhaustive selection until you've built up a profile for it to mine.  The # of new anime  alone is staggering, based on what my daughter keeps watching.   Plus, everything new to DVD seems to come out to streaming on Netflix now, and you're only going to have problems picking up older stuff... which with even a $10/ month 1dvd sub you can still get on DVD at a rate of about one every 3 days.

I've been a fan ever since I finally took the plunge.  It's probably the best entertainment value I'll ever see out of $120 a year.

Can't complain about Netflix, only good things to say.  Twice they've gotten a DVD to me in 48hrs for classwork now and I've only been waitlisted for one obscure movie that I got in about 10 days.  The streaming isn't 1080p, but it's decent enough that it doesn't bother me. 

It does have a lot of crap films on it, but it has a solid amount of good, too.  Keeps my kid extra busy.

Netflix is great but their god damn browsing only what it thinks you may want to watch bullshit needs to go.

When I click "show all TV to watch instantly" I want to see ALL not just the shit that it thinks I might like. There is no way with Netflix to just browse their entire catalog.

Don't have a Boxee, but I'd be worried about how much throughput that little Atom processor could handle.   It's probably fine for web streaming, but high bit rate vids you rip/download might choke it.  I'd also look into exactly how well it supports all the various codecs, how easy it is to update the software, and how frequently they release updates.

You could always setup XBMC on a spare computer, get a $15 remote, and see how you like it.  I think it has Netflix/Hulu plugins.

My dad has a roku and gets by ok, he has two at a time physical netflix + online netflix + local channels (abc, cbs, pbs).

So you dropped the cost of cable but you won't spring for the $7.99 cost of Netflix?  You get a month free by the way.

It's pretty much thrown everything I had at it and can decode 1080p no problem. Speaking of software update's one of the cool things boxee did was publically expose their JIRA (http://jira.boxee.tv/secure/Dashboard.jspa) bug tracker for the world to see. You can mess around and even look at their sprints.

As for XBMC you cannot compare the two, it's a worlds difference in fit/feel. It's Netflix/Hulu support is a kludge at best. Even the boxee for PC is completely different UI and underlying setup as its a mile apart in releases.

Boxee is forked off of XBMC.  They have different skins (I prefer XBMC), and Boxee has dedicated developers, but they're not that far off underneath the covers.  I was just pointing out he could setup his own media player on the cheap to see if it's for him.  Edit: he could probably download Boxee to his PC for that matter.

Also, it doesn't look like the Boxee Box supports hardware accelerated h264.  I'm skeptical that it could handle really high bit-rate Blu-Ray rips, but that's probably not a big concern for the majority of people.

We have a Roku, it just plain works. Whenever I look at Boxee forums, it seems like the first thread is something that is broken.

In all seriousness are you guys subscribed to a different Netflix than I am? AFAIK know Sony just yanked every movie they have in their catalog due to contractual issues and nothing new ever seems to show up for streaming. In fact even their Bluray discs seem to be getting more and more limited lately. Everything seems to hit PPV channels first. Their "newest" movie is Ironman 2 and that is from 2010.


Boxee Box.  :oh_i_see: Very silly/strange name for a consumer electronics device.

Green Hornet is available as a new release, and that's 2011.

Its already come and gone on PPV. So proves my point.

And listing movies from 2001 under "New Releases" when Im browsing doesnt help. "New Release" means something from the last 6-12 months since it was in the theaters. Not something a decade old you finally managed to get your hands on.

Wait.  You said:


And then Strazos said:


So how does that prove your point?  I think it actually proves the opposite of your point.  The Green Hornet was released on DVD on May 3, 2011.  That's pretty goddamned new unless you're posting from two months into the future.

In fact, you even contradicted yourself in your own post.  You wrote that new releases had theatrical releases within the last 6 - 12 months.  Well, The Green Hornet was released in theatres in January of 2011, and thus their designation of it as a "new release" would be valid even by your own metric because it was released six months ago.

Oh, and of course movies hit PPV first.  With PPV you're paying for a single movie at a premium in order to watch it before it hits the streaming and cable services, but also without renting the actual dvd/bluray.  That's the whole point of PPV.

I don't mean to nitpick.  I just hate hyperbole.

Yes, Boxee is a fork of the 9 code branch of XBMC but as I mentioned its totally different. The browsing/apps are not even close in XBMC 10, some of the underlying features are still there and hidden (mysql library support) but they are completely different beasts. CE4100 (http://www.wpgholdings.com/epaper/US/newsRelease_20091215/255874.pdf)/Boxee SOC has h264 decoding support, if not it couldn't even handle 720p content.

In his opening post he said he didn't want to build a HTPC. Just buy it a place that has a 30 day or such return policy and try it out.

I don't watch a lot of movies on Netflix but I do tend to watch a lot of documentaries and entire seasons of a few TV shows.  Which for 8 bucks a month is pretty great.  I'd say that right now ~50% of my TV watching is Netflix.

Netflix streaming does not call anything "New Releases" by the way. Their term is "New Movies to Watch Instantly" which means that they were not available to watch instantly before, not that they are recent movie releases.

My sole purpose for Netflix would be for TV programming so I wouldn't have to go other places to download episodes.  Having a movie library for random movies is just a bonus.

Netflix purposely does not promote the newest DVD releases.   They don't want everyone asking for the same 4 movies every month.  That would lead to disappointed customers.  If you want the newest releases, you have to stay on top of them yourself.

Do I know this for an absolute ironclad fact? No.  But the fact that they "hide" the newest and the obvious problem they would face if they didn't actively do so is enough evidence for me. 

This old gaming PC stuck behind the TV works well. It has an nvidia 9600 and is more than enough for DVDs, streaming netflix, and watching downloaded shows in 1080p.

Get the cheap netflix plan that includes streaming and there's plenty to watch. My amazon prime comes with a good number of free shows now too, but they're still behind netflix.

I watch DVDs and downloads with...

http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/

I'm also looking mostly for tv episodes, the movies are bonus. We don't watch a lot of movies.

That said, we went for the Netflix trial last night. Unfortunately only season 1 of Louie. But I can now watch SG-1 without commercials, which is cool. And I can catch up on Dr Who at some point, check out some old stuff. She found a couple things.

Problem is, we both have a pretty specific set of shows we watch and cable is pretty much the only place to get them all together. Just having a large selection is meaningless if it's not the stuff we watch.

And the interface....got a nice geeky librarian rant about how to sort and present titles. The interface is garbage.

My wife watches all the silly Housewives programming which is apparently on Netflix, and that satisfies her.  The only thing she watches that isn't there is all the random HDTV programs she watches but she says she won't miss that.

Now that my apartment complex is going to raise my rent by $120 this year, not having cable is going to be a good thing.

LThat's all there is. The first episode of season 2 just aired a couple days ago.

I'm used to Hulu - if it's carrying a current show you get it that day or the next.

Ah, thought you were thinking that there were multiple seasons, my bad. Netflix does that sometimes but only with certain shows.

http://vod.fxnetworks.com/watch/louie/975075902001

So this thread started getting me thinking about Boxee again so I picked one up last night, Draegan. The main thing that kept me from going this route before was that I didn't know you could connect a USB drive to it, which you can. My Xbox handled the media streaming before but it always struggled with pausing/rewinding and it was bothersome to make sure my PC was on to stream from. Boxee with a 1.5TB external drive solves this.

It comes with Vudu for movie rentals and they gave me a $5.99 credit. Watched Adjustment Bureau in 1080p without a single hitch, twas wonderful.

The only thing this leaves me wondering is what is the benefit of Boxee Box over a PS3.

I haven't tried streaming movies from my PC via PS3 but it works fine for music.  I do use the PS3 for Netflix, though.  Not Hulu+ since I can always jack a laptop into the TV and watch Archer like that.  I forget if you can get Vudu via PS3 but there are movies in the PSN for rent or purchase, SD and HD.

Grabbed a friends, its playing the following with no issues at all via SMB

Duration                         : 1h 56mn
Bit rate                         : 9 133 Kbps
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate                       : 23.976 fps

Ordered the Boxee Box from amazon yesterday afternoon, and it's now sitting on my desk at work.   :heart:

Can't wait to get home tonight.

I should take a picture of all the devices I have hooked up to the TV testing different media players

Apple TV (2gen, rooted with XBMC/Plex)
Asus Revo R1600 (Atom 230, 3GB, Nvidia ION, XBMC 10.1)
Boxee Box
PS3
Xbox 360

Enjoy your Boxee, so far it's hands down the best one for me.

I was kinda surprised at how small the box was.

Cool, but that's not really a high bitrate rip.  In fact, it's a little on the low side. 

If the CPU supports x264 and VC-1 acceleration, then I'll trust that it could handle anything it needs to.

So I loaded NetFlix up on this bad boy... and it doesn't work.

It just hangs at about 1/4 the retrieval bar.  Great!

Edit: Then again, its not working on my PS3 either.

Netflix hung on me last night a couple times. I just reloaded the page and it worked. Maybe they were having network issues.

Netfix works on my PS3 and not the Boxee.

Boxee's going back.  I don't see how anyone likes this thing.  The user interface is nice though.

Hmm I'm having the opposite experience, the only thing that's disappointed me is not being able to Bittorrent directly from it. The Netflix app looks like crap but I haven't had any issues with it or the Box in general.

No offense taken. It proves my point because its one semi-okay comic movie out of a metric fuckton of movies that have come out in the mean time. None of which are being carried on Netflix. And most of which are lost among the pile of "New Releases" they list which arent new releases at all, they are 2002 movies which they finally managed to get their hands on and offer.
YMMV.

Not cancelling them, but neither am I all happy about them.

Your reading skills are suspect.

Sorry to hear about the issues Draegan. Like MuffinMan, I find the Netflix app pretty dated, it's pretty slow to seek and requires re buffering on movement. It works fine once you choose content to watch. The Apple TV has the best Netflix app hands down. It has the full dynamic categories access and scrolls quite smooth alas there's way to many other issues with the device.

The Netflix app on my Samsung Blu-Ray player works pretty well. The only problem is the speed at which it pulls down thumbnail images but that could have as much to do with my being on a 5meg DSL connection and not a snappier cable one.

Using the Netflix app on my PS3 seems to be just fine imo.  Just sometimes it can't access Netflix.  Happened to me twice already.  :oh_i_see:

Going back to just using the PS3 and it's shit UI.

The issue is most likely Netflix and their servers (or your ISP's links to them as the whole Level3 CDN thing has pissed off a lot of other providers).

They should have gone Akamai for their CDN instead of Level3. Sure, L3 has the pipes to push a lot of data, but they are noobs in the business of serving data.

I believe Sony pipes everything through their service, which is a total piece of crap.

If you use Netflix through XBox it very smooth. Sony's crap? Not so much.

I installed Boxee on my computer (you can do that, you don't have to buy the box to try it out) and it seems nice though I agree the Netflix app is rough on the edges. If I didn't have my xbox hooked up I might want it just for that ...

Why is the Boxee so much more expensive than a Roku?

Netflix prices going up ^.

Damn, I knew it was too good to last. Now to decide if I'd rather have the DVDs or the streaming.  I'm not stretching the budget to cover both.

Yup, saw that coming a mile away. Now, I'll simply need to be more prompt with my DVDs to make sure I get proper use of the plan.

Even at $15/month, it's still worth it.

Will they still charge another buck or tow for the Blu-Ray option?

Either way, I agree that the new price is still a great deal. Netflix stream plus disc was enough for me to dump cable completely. And the service is so good I feel like I've been ripping them off paying only 12 bucks a month or whatever I pay now. They picked a good price point in my opinion, cheap enough for a lot of folks to continue with both services, but then you never know.

As annoyed as I am at the price increase, I agree.  I can blow through 5-6 discs a month and 8-9 streaming content movies in the same time.  That's a LOT cheaper than going to Blockbuster...

I'm thinking that with this change, we'll keep Netflix for the time being, but when we make our big move to Seattle, we'll likely dump cable TV and go Roku or something.  We'll see, but I'm tired of the cost to have a bunch of channels I don't want.

I've been on the streaming only option and didn't think an extra $2 was worth it for DVD's so an extra $8 is really not worth it for me.

The only thing I get discs for is for the odd class that needs a movie to be watched.  This semester I have to watch Crash for a report, and its easier to get the disc from Netflix than hunt down some shitty copy from the library. 

I watch a lot of older movies that aren't streamed, so I tend to enjoy the discs more than the streaming content.

Both of these are part of why I'm  not stretching the budget.  The movies I watch are all old and on disk, so I don't see the value in streaming.

Plus, I've got a very firm budget and a nice chunk going to savings every month.  Based on prior experience "it's only $x" is a trap that leads me to nickle and diming myself out of that savings and into a hole. A hole that took a hell of a lot of time to crawl out of and was a scary place to bee when my job disappeared in 2009.  It takes a lot for me to agree to a cost increase on anything these days instead of just saying, "It's a luxury and I'd like to retire before I'm 70. Fuck it."  YMWV.

Not as cheap as getting them from the library.  :drill:

Depends.  Columbus' library system has a floating collection across all ~20 branches.  There are certain parts of town that don't take care of materials as nicely as others.  I would say 1/2 of the movies in the system have significant issues, so gas/time spent heading back for another copy can be just as costly.

So many people saying they're going to cancel on their Facebook page, but it hasn't hurt their stock price.   It's still going up and I'm up 70% since last November.  :drill:

I'm far happier with the new Netflix prices for their current streaming content than I was with the price a year ago for the streaming content we had a year ago.

NECRO!

Got a question for those who have Boxee boxes - not the ones you build yourself, but the actual $199 hardware they are selling. Can you use it to browse the Internet and watch videos from there? I ask because I've got a subscription to Fox Soccer TV which doesn't have a Boxee app. Would I be able to put in a URL, sign in to my account and watch the videos using the Boxee?

Unless they have something specifically blocking BoxeeBox it should be fine. A lot of the content it delivers to you through the interface just sends you to the browser and pulls up the network's web site.