f13.net

To mod: Feel free to move this to the Steam sub-forum if you see fit...thought it best to be here.

http://store.steampowered.com/news/5657/

I noticed you can use your steam wallet for the MTX, I wonder how much a cut Valve gets for those.

I'm curious if they are really handling the transactions though.   I'm willing to bet it's more like you can buy the fucking retarded cryptic points with the steam wallet instead of your CC.

If they actually let you buy stuff in the game stores with the steam wallet instead of their monopoly currency though then that's genius.

With the exception of LotRO, pretty much every other F2P game I can think of needs to get on this bandwagon.  For these small companies, I imagine the loss of revenue to Steam's cut makes up for the reduction in initial  DL bandwidth, not to mention the potential customers from a new market. 

Because apparently I'm extremely lazy, this new feature of Steam has given me the opportunity to try out Champs and Global.  I'm somewhat looking forward to seeing how Champs has fared since I last played it in beta.

Its definitely better in almost every respect (the low level content was redone for F2P, the UI is way better, powers are generally more balanced/useful etc), but not loads better in most respects.  The free to play takes away choosing your own powers, which in my opinion really drastically lowers the funness of the game.  There is marginally more content, but the adventure packs cost money, so you won't get to try them for free.

This is official end of gaming. F2P is anything but free when you throw in MT.

Hello frustrating, bullying or bribing players to shell out for MT goodbye complete fun to play games. Just like commercials forced us into sitcom format, so will MT will force gaming into something different from what it is today.

I don't want free gaming so what's your point?   God the thought of playing a game with nothing but guild wars mouthbreathers *shudder*.  It's worse than Xbox Live.

Anyways did anyone find out about the wallet?  I'm totally down for playing CO again if I can use the wallet instead of buying some mass of cryptic points.

F2P + MT have been around for years now and the end of gaming hasn't come yet, sooo is the fact that its on Steam what makes the difference?

Bleh this is really irritating.  Nobody reads the steam forum on CO and you can't post on CO forums unless you are a gold member.   I guess I'm downloading it to see if this wallet thing is for real.

Under the FAQ it gave a picture example with Global Agenda.  It looked like the player got something for 500 GA points, but the checkout was for an 800 GA package.  I don't know if a second thing was added, and I'm a bit... addled... so I didn't really examine the pictures too much.

I do know it will pull up the Steam Overlay for confirmation.  Someone who isn't drugged up might want to look more closely.

You have to buy the points still.  Steam Wallet is just a payment mechanism from looking at CO/GA.

Sort of what I figured.   Missed opportunity to the extreme there.

Not to mention that it was already effectively on steam anyhow due to TF2 and Portal 2.  This is pretty far from end of the world.

Definitely going to get a little mileage out of champo, hopefully the restrictions aren't too bad (being weak and knowing my cool characters are a click away is dangerous). Probably check out GA, too.

So CO finished downloading.   I start the game.   Few hundred meg patch  :oh_i_see:.   Apparently it was too difficult to provide Steam with an up to date version of the client.

This is an excellent change. There's a massive number of F2p + cash-shop MMO's from Asia I'd love to explore. And without sub could even do so with the wife who is not interested in playing often enough to justify double subs. However finding them, getting the software and trusting their DRM and shop has discouraged messing with them. With steam providing a front end and a bigger market-place it might encourage people to try them and producers to provide translated versions.

Unfortunately it seems you still have to trust their shitty DRM/anti hack crap.  This change is nothing more than for the most part letting you buy some cash shop points with steam wallet and downloading the downloader via steam.

There's no point to even using the wallet with CO since you still need to enter CC details if you want to unlock all your old chars via subscription.

Not surprising considering how Steam's patching system works.  Better to just let the dev handle that through their patcher.

Although booting up Global Agenda didn't have be patching a damn thing first time up... :oh_i_see:

Yep, I'm pretty sure none of these games are meaningfully optimised for steam. And CO f2p especially is more like a "infinite trial" than the real thing. Just me being optimistic that such a thing might happen in the future.
 

Thats great news. I like this idea. Good for games like Global Agenda too. Though I bet not much changed for them partner wise.

There's word that the titles will be getting exclusive in-game items for Steam users, along with having any in-game achievements count as Steam achievements too.  Gotta think of the chievy-whores  :grin:

Additionally, the Global Agenda launcher is noted as being a "Steam Launcher", though I haven't seen the original version to compare to.

I will probably try Global Agenda at some point now.

You know how, back when Steam originally launched, there were a few people who went on and on about it was a terrible idea badly made that would utterly destroy PC gaming forever? Sinij is still like that.  :awesome_for_real:

I just redownloaded GA last week but havent had a chance to play it. Maybe this new F2P will provide a bunch of targets for me.

Hit me up on steam MBW if you are going to be playing, I wouldnt mind doing a few matches with some people.

:why_so_serious:

Sinij wants Steam to be the devil just so badly!

It's adorable.  :hello_kitty:

Steam made Trammel.

 :mob:

I shall have to try Forsaken World. One billion Chinese can't be wrong can they.

I probably should also fire up Global Agenda to see how it's changed from when I played it.

I think you should look to other aspects of the gaming industry for this, than steam. Just sayin'.

Cool, just got Forsaken world... it wasn't on the Australian list yesterday. Does anyone know if Spiral Knights or Forsaken World are any good and not open world PvP? Not sure the wife is up to the excitement of random ganking.

I tried both of them, but didn't find either one to be worth pursuing.  FW played like most any modern Asian MMO.  It had some interesting ideas, but they weren't enough to keep me playing.  Spiral Knights wasn't bad, but as I recall, there was a limit on how many times you could run a mission/dungeon per day, so I ended up uninstalling it.

Not sure about the pvp status on either.  I'm fairly certain Spiral Knights didn't have any open world pvp.  Forgotten World may have, but it was at a higher level than what I got to if it did.

Spiral knights is a cute little action game which suffers from Facebook-style energy limitations.  Playing today can net you a free energy refill though.

Steam made the NGE and launched Shadowbane.

I gave Spiral Knights a try, it was fun.  The energy system thing is awful though.

I don't mind something that stops me getting too invested in the game. It's pretty simplistic even though some of the mechanisms (like the upgrades and gates) appear really complex.

The Steam integration is good though. Click the "play" button and use your steam credentials to get you right into the game. Don't need to touch the providers web site (which are often terrible). If they can do the same with buying cash-shop points so my CC details never leave steam they've gone a long way in removing the disincentives from trying f2p.

And to be honest I sort of enjoyed PUG'ing in Spiral Knights. Just get some people and go smash mobs. Not terribly challenging (at the early levels) so you don't need to have studied a guide in advance or worry about the others not pulling their weight. Really brought home how silly wow had gotten.

Energy system?

Farmville/Frontierville/(insert whatever Facebook game you want, really) energy/time based system, where every action/click requires you to expend energy to do it.  You get energy back over time, something to the ratio of 1 energy per 5 minutes.  Of course, with a little cash, that timer goes bye bye rather quickly.

Ah, thats what I thought it was. Thanks.

Forsaken World is up today with a complimentary DuDu pet (which I gotta admit I chuckled at when reading the description). I started playing this about a week ago and it's not bad. It's not going to shake the world but it's well done for what it is and looks fairly good too.

I tried to play Forsaken World for about 45 minutes and I had to stop. Couldn't hold both mouse buttons to run forward, I never knew that was a game-breaker for me until it wasn't there.

I don't think I've ever used that for running in anything. I usually just use the standard WASD or sometimes the click to move feature. Just curious, what games have you played that use that technique?

Pretty much every MMO since WoW?  I honestly can't remember whether WoW started it or not, but its an easy benchmark to say - at least everything major for the last 7 years that I can think of .

Spiral Knights is a great bit of fun, and I have no idea why you guys have a problem with the energy system. Its frankly brilliant and fair. It was also completely awesome you can put other players on your Tab.

I didn't hate it, I just noted I'd quickly run out of energy.  I think with some effort and patience you could play for free as much as you want due to the energy market.  (Found that yesterday)

I need to test if I can log in and use my mist tank to sell 100 energy.  That'd be a good way to get some funds to start on days you know you won't be playing.  It'd also let you effectively convert mist energy to crystal energy with a small surcharge.

I'll install and play it when I get back into the country. Then I'll BiiF it.

Yeah I ran out too. But I dropped 3$ to play the rest of the weekend, and also supported my girlfriend with it.  ( you get a mist tank for just reaching the next town I think )

I have a guild up if anyone cares. Not that it seems to have any practical use. Found out recently, this is a java game.

I played quite a bit a few months ago when it first came out. I didn't have a problem with the energy system. You have to pay into the game pretty quickly, but the amount of game time that $5 would get you seemed very generous.

My problem with the game was that there was too long of a gap between 2 star and 3 star levels. You need to upgrade your equipment two additional tiers (which takes quite a while) if you want to play 3 star levels. I probably spent 4-6 hours and quite a lot of energy crafting 3-star gear, only to get to the end of the 2-star levels and be told I needed 4-star gear to proceed, not 3. The prospect of spending another 8-12 hours farming the same floors again turned me off of the game.

Crafting also becomes a huge energy sink, when you find yourself spending 100 energy at a time to combine some items. This is why eventually the 100 free energy a day won't cut it. 4 and 5 star recipes (iirc) take more than 100 energy, so you either need to buy energy or trade crowns for it at that point in the game.

Still, it was a fun game. Reminded me of PSO in a good way.


You can only sell Crystal (RMT) Energy to other players.

Direct trade lets you trade anything I believe.

I don't believe you can ever trade mist energy. If you could, people would just create 4-5 accounts and trade mist to their 'actual' account.

I would play Spiral Knights a LOT if it just went with a flat $5 a month for unlimited play. I imagine $5 buys more energy than most people would use in a month at first, but I think it'll go away pretty quickly once you get into the tougher levels.

It's far too shallow to really deserve more money than that, but it rips PSO's loot system lock stock and barrel...I -liked- PSO's loot system.

If you don't die, you can make it through a full tier on one mist tank with enough to open a couple of gates no problem.  As the drops increase quite significantly, even at the half-way point of the first tier, I expect it gets easier to become self-sustaining as you play.

The big thing will be saving up to buy crystal energy so you can craft the highest level of gear.  Or you could buy it, but I think it'd still be cheaper in most cases to make it yourself.

I didn't mind spiral knights. It's just really shallow. And I was disappointed to find there's really only two classes of sword and bomb since pistol is underpowered.

Forsaken world goes open PvP at level 30 apparently. So that's pretty much off the list for duo-ing with the wife. It didn't seem to have enough fun or flavor to seem terribly exciting.

Messed around with my old trial account on Global Agenda now its free. It still suffers from the core problem of having little advantage over TF2, a weird equipment system (that you know need to pay for), and lag due to centralized servers. The new PvE zone they've added is sort of fun, gives you something to do while waiting for a mission. But there doesn't seem to be that much of it and it reminds me a bit of the CoH with the "kit-built" feel to some of the environments. That and sci-fi guns that just don't feel satisfying.

I do not see shallow. Also, 2 classes of swords? I have three right now and there are many more on the vender. I have the normal damage sword, a huge sword that is a slow two hit, but massive damage, and a flourish that is more of a fencing sword that does piercing damage. The various combos of damage types, real utility in how a weapon fire/swings opens some interesting combos. Guns underpowered? They do less than swords or hammers for sure, but they are RANGED. My auto gun can obliterate some mobs if they take all the pellets, there are a variety of guns and they all have different fire characteristic and damage types. Bombs are just loads of fun, especially if you can get a friend to Knock mobs into the blast area.

With the different items behaving differently and damage types to consider combined with the action combat system where you have to really pay attention to how different mobs behave or work together. I am not seeing shallow.

Sure, its not RPG billions-of-numbers-but-zero-behavior-change "Deep", but shallow, I don't agree. Granted until Tier 2, its somewhat easy going ( If you just started and have basic gear ) Tier 2 starts to really ramp up the challenge, and tier three looks like thats when you really need to start mixing elemental and physical damage types and take them into consideration.

Once you level your gear and gear up for Tier 2, even tier 1 becomes a challenge as everything scales to your party. Movement, reacting to mob behavior, and shield work are important skills in this game. I have really been entertained especially when no two runs are ever the same and the extra layer of puzzles on top.


A small tip that was not evident to our group until the Tip came up during loading. If a friend falls down, you can puck them back up and give them half your health. Just walk over to the body, and press attack. This saves a TON of energy.



Also: Snarbolax . That is all.

Spiral Knights is pretty visually busy however. When there's a ton of mobs on screen it's kinda hard to tell what is attacking where or reacting fast enough to not take damage. I'm having a lot of fun with it but there's really not a whole lot to it even when you're in "hard" areas.

Fuck graveyards btw.

I learned how to fight phantoms and just go through graveyards slowly.  I did far worse trying to rush.

Shield block, then counter right after they swing.  Once you get the timing down you can hit, block, then hit again.

I find myself giving "pity" donations to some of the F2P games I play :)

I'd never do that if I had to share my credit card details. The integration with the steam wallet and downloading convenience is the main advantage for the user. The product gets massive exposure. Though crime-craft is showing that once the promotion and novelty wears off retention is as challenging as ever.

EQ1 had it. The benchmark is 'every major 3d mmo'.  :grin:

That could work out quite well for them if the game is any good. I think steam has a decent sized casual gaming community.