f13.net

Hey all-
Was checking my bank accounts today and noticed a charge for $4.96 on my account from ABC GAMING LLC 321-396-5753 FL that I didn't recall making. This credit card is used to autopay my cell phone and cable bills, to buy Steam games, and as a backup on my Amazon account (primarily). I googled the company info and everyone pretty much assumes they are fraudulent (shockingly, their phone number is disconnected). Anyone have similar charges? I reported it to the bank and have a new card being chiseled by gremlins (or whatever it is that makes it take 2 weeks). I also checked back on my records and they made an identical charge in December.

Maybe they got my info from Sony  :awesome_for_real: That is very likely the card I had on file for my SOE account.

If you google ABC GAMING LLC 321-396-5753 you'll find a lot of posts by folks asking the same thing, none of them have answers.  Best advice there was to call your bank/cancel the card.  Never heard of the outfit myself, though. 

My parents have a similar situation on one of their cards, but in their case they have had the card reissued twice now and the charge is showing up immediately on the brand new number, too.  That's all kinds of fucked.

That's probably a trojan on their computer, unless the black hats have a pipeline directly into a company they do business with regularly (unlikely, they rarely use them so quickly in those cases because it's too easy to find the pattern and the pipeline company gets a visit from the SS).

--Dave

Had a $25 authorization on my Debit card (no pin) from Craigslist.org.  Canceled the card immediately.  I was thinking that this might be a test purchase by some hackers/whatever to see if the card number is still valid before they went on a spree.

Thoughts?

Craigslist does not process payments for things posted on there.

They do actually.  Looks like they charge for Job postings and Real estate ads.  The only thing that's $25 is Job postings. 

All these recent hacks make me glad I've switched banks every 3-4 years for the last decade.  It wasn't deliberate, mostly because each bank would piss me off so I'd go to another.  Looks like it might be time to switch again.

All you have to do is report the card and they give you a new number.  Takes about 3 days.

Why on earth would you need to switch banks for something like this?

Paranoia.

The previous bank switches were unreleated to said paranoia, they were just shitty banks.  (5/3, US Bank, National City)

US Bank...  (snicker, guffaw, chortle)

One of these days, I really need to write up some stories about my dealings with Big Banks(tm) over the last decade, being a vendor for them and dealing with their IT (and other) departments daily.  The sheer levels of incompetence revealed should scare anyone who has their money managed by them.

My wife worked for US Bank after Firstar got bought-out by the other brother.   Yeah, I know how incompetent banks are..

I worked in document management for a large bank...the pure incompetency within the middle management and the lending units was...staggering.

Why doesn't everyone use credit unions? I understand that some business accounts aren't offered or whatever, but for personal stuff, why would anyone ever use a bank? Especially a huge rape-y bank like B of A?

Because you've never had a problem with them?  Only thing I use my bank for anymore is my checking account and ATMs cash withdrawals.  If someone's getting raped, it's not me.

I'm not financially savvy enough to know what the actual difference between a bank and a credit union is, much less why one would be immune to systemic problems that the other has.  For me, it's just somewhere that holds my money until I need it, so I don't have to store it under the mattress or something.  I don't need a loan, don't have a mortgage, don't invest in much escept my RRSP, don't really do much except put money in and take money out.  As long as they don't start keeping my money or something, I don't see a problem, and if something does go horribly wrong, I can eat ramen for a few weeks while I change banks.  What are these huge, rapey problems that everyone keeps hinting at?

Inability to qualify for membership.  Last I looked there was one CU I qualified for and it was north of the loop in Cincy, but I qualified because I worked in that county.   I don't work there anymore so I don't qualify now.

The CUs around my house all require you to be a farmer, a member of a church, or own a buisness that runs in the county, so I don't qualify for them.

I'm pretty happy with USAA for banking right now, though.  They certainly don't act like any banks I'd previously belonged to.


Things you're apparently young enough to not have to deal with on a regular basis.  Loans, mortgages, interest rates, holds on deposits, fuckstupid policies about how transactions are ordered and fees.

That's before you get in to less tangible issues like, slow to adopt new technology, features that aren't offered that previous banks did and make sense, locations of ATMs & Branches, asshole managers you have to deal with, etc.

Effectively: Banks are out to make a profit for shareholders. Credit Unions "shareholders" are basically "the people that keep their money there". (It's a bit more complicated, but not much). CU's profit motives are lower, they have lower overhead, and their incentive to screw the customer is minimal.

In terms of "huge, rapey problems" with banks -- the most common one (and one of the most egregious) is reordering transactions. Say you have, oh, 500 dollars in your checking account. You have a thousand in savings, and you have overdraft (ie: they suck money from savings to cover checks, rather than bouncing the check. The actual cost to the bank for doing this is, effectively, zero).

Now, say you write the following checks (or use your check card or debit card) over two days: 25 for a meal, 120 for a hotel stay, another string of 5 10-dollar-ish charges, 50 bucks for an oil change and a tire rotation, then a 450 dollar rent payment.

Obviously that last charge will overdraft, which the bank will charge you 30 bucks for.

What banks like to do -- (not sure if this is still legal or not. It might have been changed in the last year) is reorder your transactions. They will process the 450 dollar one FIRST, then the 120 hotel stay (overdraft), then the oil change (draft), then the meal (draft), the misc charges (5 drafts).

So if they'd done it in order they RECIEVED the charges you'd have one 30 dollar overdraft. Instead, they reordered it to charge you 240 dollars in overdraft charges. Because that's pure profit.

Credit unions don't, because they aren't for-profit. They have share certificates (part-ownership) but those pay a set interest level.

I've never had any issues with banks, but almost all my transactions are done through credit cards (so I don't have to worry if any funny business happens and it's easier to control the withdrawl of funds from my account) and I'm also financially savvy enough to keep a minimum of $2k in my account so I never have to worry about overdrafts, and I receive daily statements showing my current balance so I can spot something immediately if it looks off.

The only thing that's been mentioned is our mortgage being through a bank (not the same one as our checking/savings/money market accounts) but I'm sure of how a CU would have been better, especially since the mortgage was given when interest rates were pretty close to rock bottom.

I had money in the bank 15 years ago, too, despite being in college.  I know it doesn't happen to everyone, but it happens to a LOT of us where the spouse is far less thrifty than the saver.

More importantly: Just because you haven't been hit with shady and unethical, if legal, shit like that doesn't mean you won't. Or that it's not, you know, shady and unethical.

The credit card industry and the major banks play all sorts of games -- with credit cards, my personal favorite is changing the billing cycle to drum up late fees, or randomly applying payments to the previous month -- that was a fun one, the fuckers.

Say payment is due by the April 15th. I'd send in a large payment on Marth 30th (two weeks early) and it'd go on April's bill. And then on April, say, 27th -- I'd send in another payment and they'd apply it to Aprils payment then charge me a fee and try to jack my rates up because I didn't pay for May.

Except I had. You know, on April 27th due May 15th. I'd get missed payment and late fees for paying a bill too early. Canceled that fucking card right away.

Credit unions, in general, simply refuse that shit. Their credit cards (issued through Visa or Mastercard, normally) have flat, fixed rates. They don't offer points or anything like that, but they don't fuck around with due dates or fees. Same with loans, services, overdrafts...everything. They're rather close to the concept of a non-profit bank, and run off actuarial tables not stock prices.

Figuring my Fiance put together our financial strategy and she is already looking at how we can increase our savings from $500 a month to $1000 a month I'm not too worried about marriage causing a financial strain.  Though kids is another issue, but that's why we are aiming at putting $1k into savings every month.


In the past 10 years I have been using credit cards through multiple institutions (Chase, American Express, Discover, My previous bank, Best Buy cards I abuse 0% interest with, and now Capital One) I have never had any of those things happen, nor has my mom who has held even more.  The only issue I have had with a bank was with some of my student loans that were administered by Wells Fargo (I didn't have a choice in this to begin with), and even then everything was perfect except until this year when they sold them to ACS-Education, which has a completely fucktarded online system that is literally broken and customer service that blows.

I'm very happy that you have yet to be ass-raped by the banks. Suffice it to say, those of us who have not been as fortunate with for-profit banks and their literal joy of fucking over their own customers, are quite happy to move to a just as secure credit union system that lacks the profit-motive for such ass-raping.

I am so glad this wasn't just me.  I hate that new service and have emailed and called multiple times to try and get it fixed.  They literally don't care.

I've never had to pay any fees to B of A.  Fees are for people who don't manage their finances.

From everything I've heard about them, USAA runs its services to benefit its members rather than stockholders.  It's how companies should be run.  Much like a credit union though, not everyone qualifies for it.

And poverty is for sinners, and bad luck is only for bad people.

It's not about Poor vs Rich.  It's about those who manage their finances and those that don't.  If you are not the type that checks your account daily, then BOA will fee you to death. 

Your complete failure to grasp the reality of people who are not you is continually astounding.

This isn't a politics thread.

I used to work at Baybank (now part of BOA) in their phone center and in the Branches for 5 years, so I'm very familiar with all the tricks.  If you are a person who likes to actively manage your finances, then Bank of America is great.  They have an excellent Online banking tool, and ATMs everywhere.    It's great for people like me who like to use software to track every transaction in all their bank accounts.

If, on the other hand, you tend to not manage your accounts so closely, then I'd stay away.

I tried to translate that, and got the following:

"If you're the sort that likes to watch your bank like a hawk to make sure they don't ass-rape you, Bank of America is fine. If, on the other hand, you're one of those assholes who thinks banks shouldn't ass-rape you, well...Bank of America's going to leave you with an aching corn-hole".

I think the crossed wires was my assumption that banks shouldn't ass-rape their customers, and slog's assumption that customers should be guarding their assholes like the tellers were all eyeing them while lubing up giant strapons.

Well, they don't ass-rape if you keep a few grand in there.  I would never recommend them to anyone who doesn't keep at least 4 grand or so in their checking account.

Ah, so it's not about "Poor vs Rich" it's just about "Can afford to keep 4,000 bucks in a fucking checking account vs Nope, Can't do that."

Well, I don't keep more than a 1 or 2k, but again, I'm one of those anal people.

 :facepalm:

The point, she is over there. Weeping.

Yes (Members are stockholders. I get a dividend each year), yes and No.  Anyone can have a USAA banking account.  It's something they've been very bad about advertising.

What most people don't qualify for is membership in USAA.  That's what gives you access to the auto loans, insurance (Which is probably the BEST anywhere.) and other membership stuff the company does. 

To qualify for membership you have to be 1) Military: Active or Retired  or 2) Offspring of a member.   So I qualified for Membership via my Dad's service and my kids qualify because I'm a member.    It's worth looking into for the Auto Insurance alone if you're able to qualify, IMO.

Certain US gov't agencies qualify for membership as well, FYI.

I agree.  The times I've needed them, even big insurance companies like State Farm and Progressive rolled over and played dead and gave me what I want on the first try.  My ex wife's insurace basically ignored her problems when the other lady's insurance stopped responding and then dropped her right after the claim was settled (5 months after the wreck that the other person caused).  Everyone tells me they can get me "a deal" on their insurance plan, but I'll gladly pay a few dollars more a month to have a company that fights for me when I need them to and doesn't treat me like dirt when I have a claim.

USAA rocks.

Especially their Insurance. All of those "save money using us! just let us get you a quote!" companies would charge me at least 20% more than USAA does for less coverage.

I am pretty sure the dividend Merusk spoke of is only for the Insurance portion of USAA though, I think the bank operates differently.

Yeah I think it's only for the full member\insurance portion.  I get a couple of bucks to my account ($2.01 last time I think) and a quarterly statement every so often.

Good insurance is great.  My cars have been hit 6 times so far (when the car was parked), and only 1 time has someone left their information.  They paid out the repairs for all 5 of the other ones, and haven't increased my rates at all.  Meanwhile, I know people who went for cheap insurance  and their premiums go up any time any other insurance can't be pinned for the cash.

Whenever you have a not at fault claim make sure to get a letter explaining it. I had a claim 5 years ago that every insurance company thinks was my fault.

Good idea I never thought of that.  I wonder how easy it is to get the police records, as in all my instances the police reports had it written that I was parked properly and not at fault.

Yet another reason to QUIT USING BANKS (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2016361777_debitfee30.html) if you have any possible alternative. One of the comments made me laugh, however...


God I hope they lose a metric fuckton of customers/money/stock value.

Probably won't change things for me.  Although it'll be annoying to get charged for the 2-3 times a year I actually have to use it.  I don't think I'll be leaving a $20k balance in it to avoid the fee.

This isn't just the big banks. Just about any commercial bank is going to be rolling this kind of stuff out, and they will be changing every single checking type account they offer. The days of "Free Checking" are over. Turns out they were making an absolute shitton of their profit just off of overdraft/NSF fees over the last few years, more than you would think. Most banks will now give you a "Lite" checking account, which will not let you use checks, limit the number of teller visits and in person deposits you can make and will in essence be a no frills online banking account. The better accounts will all have no monthly fee if you have a certain amount or deposit a certain amount a month, but they will ALL charge you a fee to use your debit card. This is actually one good result of the banking regulations that passed last summer. Yes, you have to pay a monthly fee, but trust me when I say this, the banks are doing a lot less practically fraudulent business because of it.

USAA++ (though I'm a cheaty member, since my mother was military)

Everyone should qualify for their core banking services these days, but not everyone gets all the perks as we learned. Like my fiance can't get their deposit@home service because she'd need some random other things like an auto loan through them. But I get them just by being a military account.

But they've always been unbelievably helpful when doing absolutely anything finance related. Edit: and for laughs any time a bank calls me and says I should switch, I say I have USAA and they go "oh, well then. Have a nice day!" instead of launching into a sales pitch.

Insurance companies do the same thing.  It's very amusing.

If you can't find a credit union to use (which beggars belief, but I guess there are some places around the country where they are scarce...Seattle area is decidedly not one of them), then at least use a local bank that might give you a reacharound at least. Having a local branch to go into is a nice idea, but honestly- how often are you going into the bank? I have been in a branch of my CC twice in the past 15 years- once to get a car loan, and once to check prices on housing loans. I never carry cash unless I specifically need it, and do all my bill paying/banking online.

I have USAA but they don't insure autos in Mass.

I typically use BofA for my day to day checking, it's just been more convenient, and loans through USAA or Navy Federal Credit Union.  I may end up switching everything over now though.

Is the bolded new? My car is insured via USAA. I believe there's an extra rate tacked on by the state for them being an out of state insurer however. I never looked at how much it was, because I just love using USAA for everything.

Problem I had with using USAA was that they refuse to give me a fucking debit VISA or MC with my account, they only give me a Maestro card which works pretty much nowhere.

If Chase starts charging me fees I guess I will have to move all of my banking back to USAA or maybe a credit union.

Since when? My USAA card has been a Master Card for the last 3 years.

I seem to remember having this conversation before and you said that was a few years ago.  You're still having that problem?

If you were military you can get US banks platinum account privileges free. Since theres no NFCU near me I have to do that. Beats any banks deal around I've found.

My domestic partner had to leave Chase because of their new policy on direct deposits. You have to have at least 1 $500 or more direct deposit into your account per month or they will charge you a $12 a month fee. Since she works part time and is a student, she never quite reached that number per pay check. She has since moved on to a Credit Union and hasn't had any issues with them. I almost switched, but the Credit Union was reacting to some new law and was having a vote to change from a federal to a state credit union. I still may switch once I find out how that went down.

Same here.

And very true, any time someone calls up to ask me to switch banks, CC companies, or insurance, I just say I'm with USAA and the conversation is over.

Both my debit and credit have been mastercards for.. since I had them? 14 years now? I guess I can say 10 for sure, maybe it was something else before that.