f13.net

Ive been looking into picking up a tablet lately, but I don't know all that much about them. I've looked through the tablet section of bestbuy.com, but I'm so out of touch with OS's and other specs these days that I don't really know what I'm looking at.

I've got an iPhone 4, love the interface and use the crap out of it. This leads me to believe that I'd dig the iPad, though I'd be willing go bet that it's a bit pricey for what it actually does. Then there's the other OS's I'm not too familiar with: the Windows one, android, webOS, and probably some others that I'm unaware of. I also don't know a lot about the manufacturers.

Do any of you have tablets and if so, were they worth buying? Anything I should stay away from or anything considered a must when it comes to these things?

Serious question: why do you want a tablet, what do you want to use it for?

Browse the internet, watch movies, read/write email, skype. That's about it. Same things I use my iPhone for, I suppose, but I think I'd appreciate a larger device.

You might pay a bit more for an iPad, but I think the functionality and longevity of the device will be better than some of the other players.  schild apparently hates his, but I've yet to see what his reasons are.

If you really want a tablet and you already have an iPhone just get an iPad. It's not more expensive than the competition and your iPhone apps will transfer over (i.e. you don't have to rebuy them).

What Trippy said, it sounds like you want an iPad.

I do not personally own one since they do not offer me anything useful. I have several friends who have them and use them. If you commute around or travel a lot they are definitely better than a phone or netbook for entertainment and the internet. I know several folks who use them to read papers. The only complaints I heard was that keeping everything synced across three devices (phone, computer, iPad) was a hassle; I have no idea how much substance there is in that though.

As much as I hate Apple, if you already have an iPhone and like it, an iPad makes sense.  In a few months when comparable Android tablets are half the price instead of just 20% lower, it would be different.

--Dave

Enough of a hassle that at the Apple conference yesterday they focused the announcement of their free cloud system on how it's a solution to deal with it.

I just use Dropbox for my Android stuff, I kind of have to assume there's an iOS app for it too.

It is a big pain in the ass. I can't wait for iCloud to be available.

I am a bit disappointed with the whole iMatch system. $25 is not a bad price - but not for shit I actually bought and burnt from cds which I have. Especially ones I had to buy simply because the shit is not available in my iTunes zone. Sure, iTunes has it, over in Europe... *ahem*

Sorry about that. Back to task: you have an iPhone, familiar with the OS and enjoy using it but want something a tad bigger? iPad is sort of a no brainer at this point. I think the other tablets out there would be chancy at best and you'd have to learn how to use them - why flub around with learning new shit if you have the iOS down and like it?

Possibly, but given the way Apple stores songs and other media on their devices it would be useless when it came time to play any of them.  You'd essentially turn your iPad/Phone/Pod into giant, expensive USB sticks.

I'm not sure that learning a new OS would be that much of a hassle.  I mean, I continue to have PC's because I feel like they've got more flexibility than Macs. Does that same flexibility carry over to tablets?

People do realize that the iCloud is not a 'cloud' cloud, but a sync procedure for your devices. Its not dropbox or the amazon cloud service.

Actually, it does store files as well. It is just not your typical "throw stuff up on a virtual hard drive" system.

From what I've read, it won't store any old documents, only approved document types. As for music, you have to pay $25 a year

Unless you bought it on itunes, yeah.

I have not read anything that has made it crystal clear that you won't be able to upload your personal music to their servers. That is not to say that you will be able to, but that is a murky area at this point. The $25 is for Match service which they go through your library and sees if the songs are on iTunes and gives you the 256k AAC iTunes version of the song (and there is no details on if you lose access to those songs if you don't pay after your year expires either).

You get 5 GB of storage for free which you can upload anything to. If they don't have that cool indie band CD you bought from you neighbor you can just upload it.

If you like the iPhone get an iPad. Most apps worth owning are universal so you save on software.

I've been seriously considering a tablet for some time now, specifically as a photography tool - portfolio display, for showing poses/inspiration shots to clients and models, for tethered shooting and even basic location editing.

The only tablets that I think are even in the running at the moment are the iPad2, Motorola Xoom and Acer A500/501. The iPad2 is by far the best looking, most familiar to clients and nicest to use. The Apple ethos (we must control everything), lack of USB/HDMI, lack of Flash and price are the only things that even made me consider the others. No USB port is less of an issue with Dropbox but still cripples the idea of tethered shooting without resorting to clunky and complicated solutions like a WiFi SD card and battery-powered router. No HDMI is annoying but an adapter is available. No Flash is a serious issue when 90% of photogs websites use Flash heavily. In the UK the prices of non-iPads still aren't low enough to have a decisive impact. My current position is wait a few months and see what the competition comes up with.

So, long story short, if none of my objections are critical to you... get an iPad. If the price is an issue then think carefully about whether you really need 64Gb and 3G.

While on tangential tablet stuff, I think I'd be locked into an iPad were I to get one.  AutoDesk released AutoCAD for iPad and it doesn't look like it'll be coming out with an app for the other tablets.  I was doing plans from someone else's field dimensions this week and all I could think was, "Damn, if only they'd taken an iPad with this app with them they'd have seen why they needed THIS dimension, not the one they took."

Because apple has had cloud storage for years.

https://market.android.com/details?id=com.autodesk.autocadws ?

Thanks, but it doesn't matter.  A few hours after I posted that I mentioned it to another guy in my studio and he said he and another PM had tested it 3 months ago.  Apparently it's a great interface for making marks like "CHANGE THIS *draws bubble*" but shit for anything else actually useful - like drawing -  while in the field.

No BIG surprise, but still a disappointment.

Oh hey, I got called out.

I bought an Alienware M11x a few weeks ago because I needed a new laptop and as mentioned I had a vague hatred for the iPad.

By vague, I mean what I was called out for in this thread. I hate the thing because it does nothing I can't do better on a sub-laptop. Not to mention I now have a sub-laptop that can run any game on the market at full speed with very little turned off. In other words, get an Alienware M11x with the WiMax option. No reason to upgrade to the nicer screen really, it's 11.x inches, it's not like your experience will change drastically and it'll just put more strain on the 540M.

One day tablets may have a meaningful function, until then, my iPad is basically a color kindle with some tower defense games on it. Oh, and it's a portable Scrabble board.

I also have an ipod touch (which I actually like), an ipod video (which I like more), a handful of android phones (increasingly wonderful), a Zune (yay tiny wireless syncing thing), and other gadgets in the vein of an ipad (switchblade gadgets). The form factor of the ipad doesn't make it all that suitable. Exhibit A: Look at all the enclosures they're making (an arcade unit, laptop case w/ bluetooth keyboard, etc) to make the iPad serve a purpose better than what it does out of the box.

This post is an incoherent mess. Run it through your Bloodworther, I'm not reading it to fix it.

Tablets are excellent for couch websurfing, so-so for looking up reference materials when you're out and about, and crappy as soon as you need to actually input or change anything.  The Asus Transformer looks *really* cool, a $400 tablet of decent performance and size that you can turn into a netbook with a docking station, it's my current pick for "Best of Breed" on tablets.  But they're essentially media consumption devices that may or may not be useful for more (with the chances being much higher for Android systems).

--Dave

Mmmmmm.... I love the smell of neckbeard in the morning...

Just as a ballpark, how long do you plan to use the Alienware, schild?  Just wondering what kind of life to expect out of that system, I need to upgrade from my desktop soon.  i7 with a 540m should be decent at $1300, I think.  Saves me from having to build, too.

I'll use that Alienware til it's dead. It replaced my Dell 8600 from like 2003. I take pretty good care of laptops, but always buy whatever has the best chance of running games without weighing enough to break my back in half. I'd suspect realistically I could play new games til 2013-2014 on it given the resolution is only 1366x768 (note: I plan on replacing the harddrive with an SSD within a couple months, Dell wanted too much for the SSD).

I can get a Wii-U for this!  :awesome_for_real:  :uhrr:

Quick question regarding tablets actually...

Is it possible to tether tablets and smartphones sensibly? I.e. if I get a tablet without 3G could I somehow access the internet on it using the 3G on a phone? I don't really want to pay for a voice/data contract for a phone *and* a data contract for a tablet, but I will often be using a tablet in areas where WiFi coverage isn't guaranteed.

I thought most plans make you pay for tethering anything to your phone.  To the tune of $30 a month, the same as a data package.

If tablets are similar enough to phones I know on my Android I can install a free tethering app, and with a rooted phone I can install an app that will act as a wireless access point.

WTF? I play 1 Euro per month, and that is the only provider here who even takes money for tethering. All the other providers do it for free. You need a day of the rope for your phone providers as well.

The add-on fees for tethering are even more offensive given that all the US carriers seem to be moving to metered/capped data plans.

Sooo, they expect me to pay per megabyte or pay for N MB / month.... *AND* they want to charge me $20/$30 extra per month depending on where those packets happen to go.

OK, this tethering of which you speak sounds like just what I need.

I'm in the UK, does anyone know how it works here? Is it free/cheap or will I have to learn about rooting my phone and stuff?

On a recent Android device, go to: HOME / MENU / Wireless & Networks / Tethering & Portable Hotspot

If it's not disabled on your device, you'll be on a settings page that allows some combination of:

USB tethering
(share network via USB -- device looks like a USB ethernet device to PC)

Portable Wi-Fi hotspot
(share network via wifi -- device looks like a wireless AP)

Bluetooth tethering
(share network via bluetooth)


Some carriers have the OEMs disable these features entirely, have them only available if you pay for a tethering option, or start nagging you about upgrading to a tethering plan if they detect you using them (probably by monitoring the TTL field in IP packets, but have not dug into the details).

Cool, sounds easy enough, thanks.

My current phone contract expires in a few weeks and I haven't decided on exactly which phone and/or tablet combo I'll be going for but I'll have a browse through the monster Android thread before then anyway :)

Funnily enough I love that I have different data plans for my phone and my pad. But then my 9GB ipad plan costs 9 Euros per month (3 of which are used by my daughter-in-law with a second sim card for another 3 euros per month). And the 3G connection of my phone provider sucks anyway, I'm much happier with my ipad provider.

One thing you have to take in mind is that you will suck battery out of two devices when you tether them. With the power usage of the average smartphone that really hurts your uptime, and the phone is the device people should be able to reach me on (my original plan was to tether from my ipad, but sadly Apple sucks and doesn't let me tether even from the new ipad2, only from the iphone4 I don't own. Assholes).

Tethering anywhere outside the US is relatively cheap. Here, however, the carriers get away with what amounts to highway robbery.

That's why I prefer USB tethering for getting my laptop online.  The laptop can afford a bit more power drain to the phone, rather than having both of them burn power for a local wifi link.  This has saved my butt a number of times when visiting partner companies that don't have functional guest wifi networks (though it is brutal expensive if you're roaming overseas via a US carrier).

Not sure if it changed in the meantime, but at the beginning when I checked the tethering thing out, you NEEDED itunes on your PC to use the phone for USB tethering. Yes, Apple is that retarded. Thats why Wlan Hotspot tethering is superior. You can do it on every device without a hassle.

The only thing you ever needed iTunes for was the driver and maybe to install carrier updates to the phone. I fail to see how that's retarded.

Because its forcing people to install a whole music management suite instead of just the driver? I fail to see how that is not retarded.

"Hey, your phone has internet, can I use it as a modem real quick?"

"Sure, just install that 80MB file, but make sure to disable quicktime and the autoupdater afterwards, you don't want that on your machine"

Except it's not actually like that.

The ratio of people that would fuck it up without a nice convenient package that contains all they need versus the neckbeards that would bitch about it is about 10:1.

With both Linux and Windows, USB tethering from Android "Just Works".

1. Plug in Phone
2. Turn on Tethering in Settings
3. Computer is now on the Internets via phone.

It would "Just Work" on OSX as well, if Apple shipped a standard USB Ethernet driver as part of the platform.  Instead OSX only has support for a specific hardware USB<->Ethernet peripheral, to the point of you would have to fake your USB VID/PID to pretend to be that peripheral, which is incompatible with Windows and Linux.

We could make #2 better with a "share internet with computer" (or whatnot) button in the USB is connected alert.

I find that iTunes is best avoided.  My favorite iTunes experience was plugging my ipod nano into a win32 machine to charge overnight for a trip, then, at 35000 feet and 2 hours into a 12 hour flight discovering that iTunes had deleted ALL the music on the nano, without prompting me...

According to sources, Best Buy purchased 270k HP TouchPad units and have only sold 25k so far (http://"http://www.businessinsider.com/hps-touchpad-is-officially-a-disaster-2011-8") and are trying to get HP to take the remaining units back.

Your link is a disaster (http://www.businessinsider.com/hps-touchpad-is-officially-a-disaster-2011-8).  :awesome_for_real:

My bad, my original link had a ton of extra crap in it, and I was trying to get rid of the non-needed parts, and I guess i got rid of too much :P

HP to Apple - "Fuck it. You won. We hate this shit." (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-20094222-92/hp-halts-webos-business-spins-off-pc-unit/)

HP is divesting themselves of the WebOS division and apparently the PC division. Looks like their killing WebOS and spinning off the PCs.

webOS sez: we're not dead yet (http://thisismynext.com/2011/08/18/hp-not-walking-away-webos-exclusive-details/)

Given that HP lost most of the decent talent from Palm before, during, and after the acquisition, I'm not terribly surprised except by how quickly they gave up on the phone and tablet market with webOS.  I was expecting them to make much more of a go of it.

Is it possible to hack TouchPads to run Android?  Because I suspect there's going to be a few going cheap....

--Dave

Given that WebOS runs Linux and they have to release the kernel source (GPLv2 compliance), in theory it shouldn't be horrible to do a port.  The hard part will be the openGL drivers and possible video/camera drivers, which often involve proprietary libraries.  It wouldn't surprise me if somebody got Android running on them.

I'm not a happy camper about this. I rather liked WebOS and would have hoped the OS develops as a serious contender in the market.

It's really rather unfortunate -- WebOS had a number of interesting ideas and was exploring some different directions than the other mobile OSes -- they were plagued with poor timing, sometimes underpowered hardware, and difficulty getting traction with both iOS and Android rapidly evolving around them, I think. 

So whats the best android tablet on the market right now?

Gonna need something to keep me entertained post surgery during recovery.

Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1

I really like my Xoom. Haven't tried the Samsung, though. I get the impression they're fairly interchangeable.

I'm a big fan of the Xoom as well.  I've had it a few months now, and it's been pretty useful both at home and for work. 

Of the major 10" Android Tablets:

Xoom runs stock Android 3.x without OEM customizations.

Tab10.1 has a better (more responsive) display than Xoom, and is thinner and lighter that Xoom.

ASUS EEE Pad Transformer is lighter but not thinner than Xoom, similar display to Tab, and closer to stock 3.x than Tab.  The keyboard accessory doubles the battery life and gives it a netbook-like form factor when they're combined.

All three use the same NVIDIA Tegra T20 chipset (dual A9 at 1GHz, no NEON), have 1GB ram, similar performance, etc.

Well, my typical impulse buying kicked in and I'm posting this from my new Asus Transformer.
Felt I had to have something to play with in lines at PAX, and they had this on sale with the keyboard dock for $499. Now everyone needs to tell me what the must have android tablet apps are.

I settled with the Acer Iconia.  Really, really happy with it.

Galaxy tab 10.1. And now that there are some decent apps for Honeycomb I am supremely satisfied with it

$99 (http://www.precentral.net/hp-begins-touchpad-liquidation-16gb-cut-99-32gb-149-1)

Hmm that's tempting enough just for shitter surfing and to use as a cookbook.

So in answer to my own question about "best" Android tablet I saw this today.....


It even has a replaceable, rechargeable battery so you can carry a spare battery with you instead of a clunky power pack and recharges in under an hour.
It doesnt have onboard 3g/4g but supposedly can be tethered to your android phone with the usb, so no problems there.


So that got me interested. Enough that I visited the website where I found:



Well that fucking killed that. No Netflix, no tablet.
Which to me doesnt make sense. How can I watch netflix on my damn phone but not on this tablet which also uses android?

So far that just seems to be Canada, the US retailers are offering a trivial $25 or so markdown right now.  At $100-150, it has a lot to recommend it even if it becomes an orphan and nobody gets Android or a more generic Linux working on it.

--Dave

I don't know the specifics around Netflix and this device, but many DRM "solutions" need to be approved by the "content providers" on a per-device basis.  

Yeah, Netflix approves the hardware before it can run, basically to assure themselves (and the studios) that there's no way to get the video stream *off* the machine.

Which is silly, since it's all out there somewhere, anyway, at DVD quality anyway (which is more than enough for a tablet).  But Netflix streaming exists at the sufferance of the studios, so don't expect it to change any faster than it took for DRM to get dropped off of most music download stores.

Anyway, for cheap (not counting the Touchpad, if those prices come to the US) the best option seems the Vizio gTablet (10 inch screen, SD card slot, and mini-USB host port) for $270.  Downside: Running 2.2, and probably not going to get an official upgrade.  At the full price level, the Asus Transformer is still my favorite.

--Dave

I have a Tab 10.1 and have been deploying the Asus Transformer for company staff. As Quinton mentioned its very netbook like with the keyboard and it will run ~499 for the 16GB version with the keyboard.

One of the major downsides to the tab 10.1 is the sheer lack of ports. The transformer has a mini HDMI out/Micro SD card on the unit itself. The keyboard base has two USB ports with you can attach things like USB flash sticks and a media card slot. Also Asus seems faster getting newer OS releases out there (tab is still on 3.1 while the Transformer/Xoom is off on 3.2.x)

Speaking of which the transformer is an almost perfect netbook, I don't understand chrome books at all now.

Not just Canada but good luck finding one at those prices now:

http://mashable.com/2011/08/20/hp-tablet/

I've been camping sites all day at working, hoping to catch one when they drop the price. The only motivation I have left now is to refresh Newegg every now and then.

Picked up a 32gb today for $149. Neat little device, been using it to surf the net around the house, and read some books through the Kindle app. Hopefully the app support for it stays pretty strong!

Um, I wouldn't count on significant app support.

Yep since they just killed the operating system.


Im going to wait and see if netflix adds support for the Toshiba Thrive. I dont think anyone else has the ports and options it has currently on the market.
Might send netflix an email to see if I can get an answer out of them on that.


Edit: News!
Lenovo released a tablet. Business version has all the ports you want or need (USB, micro USB, SD Card, HDMI), with flash and comes pre-installed with the Netflix ap!
.

Downsides include its heavier than most normal tablets weighing in at 1.65 lbs versus the Toshiba Thrive at 1.6 lbs. And it doesnt have the removable and rechargeable battery that the Thrive has.

See it here: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/tablets/

Having used both original iPad and Xoom which are ~1.5lbs, I'm pretty convinced that for using a tablet for reading or any other task where you're going to be holding it longer-term, you want something closer to (or under) one pound.  Tab 10.1 is 1.3lbs and that doesn't sound like a big difference, but it's pretty huge.  Still a little heavier than would be ideal but about as light as you can get with the current generation of these things.

Not significant but they are still supporting webOS going forward:

http://www.precentral.net/kerris-work-webos-and-app-ecosystem-will-continue

And there is a push now to get Android running on the Touchpad.

http://rootzwiki.com/showthread.php?t=3327&p=67699

Well for business I need the ports.  Especially like having the HDMI for presentations.
I think I'm buying that business version when it's released on the 23rd.

Just picked up a 16GB Touchpad for $100 shipped from Costcentral. They still have over 6500 in stock. Poor guys.

Now let's get fucking Android running on it.

Barnes and Noble (http://gifts.barnesandnoble.com/HP-TouchPad-Tablet-with-16GB-Memory-WiFi-12GHz-Black/e/886111788637?itm=3&usri=touchpad) is still taking orders on the 16gb version at $101.95, I went ahead and bought one but am somewhat skeptical they still have them available.

edit - I guess people are saying that they are getting a cancellation emails after ordering from B & N, you would think they would remove the item from the site...

So I wonder when the other manufacturers will come around to the idea that these things sell like fucking hotcakes if the price gets dropped?  There's a pretty solid place for a low end tablet, maybe one in every home kind of thing. 

When they can make money selling them at that price?

Well, sure.  I'm just wondering if they put the power vs. price point too high with these to begin with.  Take a hit on the hardware and make up the loss with apps.  Or something...

The per-unit manufacturing cost for the iPad is allegedly somewhere around $300, so don't hold your breath on things getting to the 'hotcakes' price point anytime soon.

I would put money to bet that this is Amazon's strategy with the Kindle tablet they have in the works.  Also B&N currently does this successfully.

Just got my "we are sorry we don't really have that item" email from B&N, odd that they left the item up for sale on their website for a good 12 hours past the point that I purchased it and hit my CC right away as well.  Whatever happened to we will bill you when we ship, I didn't even get a thank you for the interest free loan.

The MSRP on the 32gb ipad is at $499 which if their wholesale cost is $300 would put them just shy of keystone pricing model at %40 markup for retail.
I have seen estimates that their production cost is any where from as little as $229 to as much as $325. These estimates are hardly ever right though and for the most part are on the high side.

Maybe their business model is such that they can wholesale them at cost to retailers and make all their money on the sale of apps, but I would be suspicious.
Only way this would work is only to sell them in their own retail stores, but they arent doing this.

Me too, it's a little heavy for long duration reading but it does everything I wanted a tablet to do.

Remember that Apple, unlike most of these guys, sells a fair number of units directly, no middle man. The number is probably high though, since it is one I saw rather a while ago.

I suspect that's more likely the BOM.  The iSupply and suchlike teardowns don't take into account much in the way of manufacturing, logistics, reverse logistics, etc.  Estimates on component pricing also can be way out of whack with reality (in either direction).

How's the battery time? It's got to suffer with having two screens, surely?

I'm currently starting to look around for a replacement to my aging dell or hp or whateverthefuckitis laptop with something else to bring along on my photo travels. One of the main irritations I have with the current laptop is that the monitor is really awful the instant there's any sun even vaguely near it, so if I'm replacing it, it'd be replaced with something that could interface with an external harddisk and preview pictures with a larger screen than the current d300 3" monitor.

Some people are working on it:

http://rootzwiki.com/showthread.php?t=3327

Kinda crappy it will only have gingerbread and not honeycomb, the way its going it seems like there's a better chance of getting the ice cream sandwich source then honeycomb.

Pulling the trigger on the Lenovo Thinkpad tablet today.

USB, micro USB, SD card slot, and HDMI slots. Flash and netflix capable from day one.
And it is prebuilt to be upgradeable to use 3G, which is coming out in October.

Installed preware today along with a whole bunch of patches that speed up the tablet, increase the sound volume and reduce caching among other things. Really smooths out the interface and the tabbing between apps.

Also got the SNES emulator which is surprisingly on the official app store (Search for SNES) and runs really well. Obviously not the best for platformers but for RPGs it is pretty sweet.

For the price I paid this device is pretty awesome, it may not be a full featured tablet but for what most people would use it for; surfing, youtube, games, ereader it performs really well!

I bought the Asus Eee Pad Transformer today (16GB w/keyboard dock).  I haven't used it much yet, obviously, but a guy at work has been raving about it and its gotten some good reviews so far and its priced very well for a tablet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMLkjdjLWMs&feature=related

iPad 2 security flaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NLgQ22naQhE)