f13.net

So, this all started about a week ago, we finally got a big sectional to replace the single sofa in a 19'x19' room, which meant it was time to wall-mount the 50" Plasma.  Off to Amazon and a shiny new Cheetah mount arrives.

I head off to Lowes to grab a studfinder, and of course it's not finding shit, at least not in any way that makes sense.  I figured the 2 sheets of 1/4" plywood paneling over the drywall were fucking with it, but test holes weren't revealing any studs above the fireplace.  I don't trust a $1k+ TV to anchors, so I started peeling back the paneling, and found that whoever framed out the wall after the masons were done with the fireplace was a fucking idiot.  Studs are 19" on center, and one of the 2x4s is a hair under 1.25" wide.  Welp.  Time to rip out that section of wall and put studs in the right place to actually hang a mount.

This got the gears turning on the fireplace reno we were planning on doing this summer.  We had originally planned on just doing a stackstone/ledgerstone overlay on the existing brick and dropping the mantle to a reasonable height.  Having to gut the wall anyway got us thinking about doing it floor-to-ceiling, as it would look much better with the 11' ceilings and save me from having to replace the damned paneling I need to tear out.

Stone veeners are fucking expensive.  We're looking at ~100sqft total, and this stuff is all $10-15/sqft.  I'm a cheap bastard, and while $1k may be cheap to refinish a fireplace floor-to-ceiling if you're paying someone, I'm a DIY guy and that money can be better spent elsewhere - like the kitchen and master bath remodel that have to be done.  Hours of google/froogle looking for cheaper alternatives led me to a site selling urethane molds for casting your own veneer in concrete.  $100 for the mold, *maybe* $50 in concrete, and then a bit in stain/sealer.

So, before I pull the trigger on this, has anyone ever actually done concrete casting?  My biggest worry is getting a pitted/shitty surface.  Plan is to rig up a vibrating table by screwing my jigsaw into it without a blade and give it a good 5-10minute shake after the pour to make sure the air bubbles aren't at the bottom of the mold (which is the textured part/face that you'll see), and use more of a mortar mix than a concrete with chunky aggregate.  I'll stain and seal them before they go up, but given the texture polishing seems like it would be impossible.  Each finished piece is 16"x4" and .7" thick (.5sqft).

Biggest downside I can see so far is that it's going to take about a month to get all of the stones made.  The $100 buys 5 .5sqft molds, and the concrete needs to set for about 24 hours after pouring.  That means 2.5sqft/day, or about 40 days to get enough stones to do the job.

Link to mold:
http://us.ebid.net/for-sale/mold-veneer-garden-wall-stone-mold-concrete-moulds-30777248.htm?from=googlebase (http://us.ebid.net/for-sale/mold-veneer-garden-wall-stone-mold-concrete-moulds-30777248.htm?from=googlebase)
Finished product (ignore the color)
(http://im2.ebidst.com/upload_big/2/3/3/1282012802-833-0.jpg)

Any help here would be appreciated, heres some pics of the room, and a really, really shitty photoshop of what it might look like afterwards (forgot to add a mantle, whoops)
Scale of the stones is off on the photoshop, and the pattern won't repeat that much.  I just repeated a 1/4 stone chunk or so to get around the watermark and to correct the angle the sample picture was taken at.

Current:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86041/Andy/SAM_0827.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86041/Andy/SAM_0828.JPG)

Photoshop:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86041/Andy/fireplace%20test%20copy%20%28Medium%29.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86041/Andy/fireplace%20test%20wide%20copy%20%28Medium%29.jpg)

I'll take pictures as the work progresses, I'm going to rough-mount it tomorrow to a couple supports that are in place and happen to be the right vertical distance apart to let me sink the lag bolts in them.  This weekend the bit above the mantle will get framed out in 2x4s, secured to the existing wall+ceiling, and then covered in tileboard/cement backerboard to be flush with the brick.

Planning on hanging the various components (receiver, ps3, cable box, wii) on glass shelves to the left and right of fireplace.  Going to run a new outlet and cable hookup into hollow space behind where the veneer will go, and then have small cutouts (with plugs made at same time, in case someone down the line doesn't want to wallmount) in the stone to run cables to a powerstrip.  Then run conduit from the hollow space to left/right of fireplace so all of the cabling/etc from the components on the glass shelves can be hidden.  I'll need to have an access hatch on the side to get to the power strip as well, I've got some ideas on how to do it, but nothing concrete (heh) so far.

1. Yes I've worked with concrete.
2. Making it as smooth as you want is unlikely.
3. Will this be exposed to high heat anywhere?  If so, bad idea unless you're dead certain there's no voids.
4. Screw with the mix too much and you'll fuck it up completely.
5. Consider using a plasticizer or superplasticizer to render the mix more fluid if you go through with this.
6. Are you aware how heavy that wall will be?

I would post in this thread, but it saddens me when I realize that it will most likely be deleted after Nerf decides to sue the concrete vendor for failing to disclose that the mix he used contained radionuclides.

I think it looks odd going all the way to the ceiling.

A) For the love of God rip out that 70's/80's brass fireplace and paint it black or replace it with a more updated black facing.

B) Do not use that horrible grey color stone you photoshopped into the pic. Use a more natural tan or sandstone color it will work better with the flooring you have.

C) A month? And you arent even sure if you can do it right? And it involves a fireplace which is the biggest single source for house fires? Buck up and spend the grand.

Let Einstein decide.

I must admit I'm not feeling super enthusiastic about yet another "pay attention to me!!!1!" Nerf thread just now.

I demand resolution to the last thread before giving more advice.

Tough crowd. I just want more pictures of Einstein.

I would personally go for this this (http://www.cdc.gov/mold/stachy.htm) unless cost is an issue. I think it would look very nice in your new place.

Not a huge fan of the floor-to-ceiling fireplaces.

This is more my taste:

(http://www.ageewoodworks.com/prodimages/jackson-lg.jpg)

That's the one that's going in our living room, but with marble rather than that horrible stone in the sample pic.  Got a little different version for the smaller fireplace in the master bedroom.

The pieces have been in my basement for almost a month now, just waiting for the contractor to heal up from his broken hip to finish it up.

Don't do it.  Hire a contractor and then sue him for not getting the permits.

Einstein in that last picture made me laugh out loud.

I also agree that a warmer color would be better with your floors.

For the love of god, do some sourcework first. That looks awful, it's out of step with the style of the room (which is awesome btw!) and it will cost you equity down the road. Rip out the shitty brass cheese. Put in a nice classic federal style fireplace and mantel.

That color isn't what we were planning, I just suck at photoshop.  The finished product would be a dark grey that we stain and seal.  I know that it looks incredibly fucking odd photoshopped in.

Brass shit is getting yanked and spraypainted black until we replace it with something that fits better.

Heat shouldn't be a huge issue - everything is going over the existing brick, or built out over cement board.  The vapor barrier behind where the cement board will be hung is still in perfect shape, so it's not getting *that* hot.

Youtube videos from the mold manufacturer (globmarble) talk about them using plaster basically.  They use a gypsum based medium that appears to be about the consistency of runny pancake batter.  My worry with using plaster is that it will feel fake.  I want it to at least feel somewhat like stone to the touch, even if the sealer will give it a bit of plasticy/epoxy feel.

That was a pretty good one of him hanging out on the back of the couch. 

First thought: Check your joists. You're adding about 500# to that area on a permanent basis, you might want to add some blocking or sister some members, depending on how overspanned they are.  

You talk about how the framing is 19"o.c. behind the wall but don't mention a header over the fireplace opening. (By the way, framing is done first, typically. So they framed it wrong or the masons moved those studs. The latter is more common, yay trades.)  Is there one?  If not, your studs are going to be as effective as those screw anchors when you nail them into the existing sheathing instead of getting them some proper bearing.

Full height fireplaces can look nice if done right.  What you're describing? Full height faux stone with glass shelves in that room? Not done right.  However it's your home and your tastes that have to be appeased so it's your call.  For that room I think something more like the fireplace on this page would be better.  http://donhughesdevelopment.com/?page_id=12    Take out the cabinet in the middle, make it flat and stick the TV there.  That's based on just that one picture of the room, though.  We know nothing about the scale and features of the rest of the house.

Keep in mind that you being a 'cheap bastard' and only spending $200 on it means it's going to look like a $200 fireplace when you decide to move.  Jobs on the cheap never hold up as well.

Why didnt I think of this!!!
Screw you and your fireplace Nerf! Nothing more until we get resolution!


 :awesome_for_real:

Truth.

That fireplace (besides being ugly) is going to stretch that wall vertically when it doesn't need it.  Those two windows do a fine job of that.  Besides, when people walk into a room, you don't want them to immediately notice one thing (whether it's exceptionally beautiful or exceptionally ugly).  Trust me, they're going to notice THAT thing.

I'll give in that my photoshop makes it look pretty fucking horrible, but thats more my fault than the stone.  These things can look gorgeous, and me being a cheap bastard doesn't mean the quality will suffer.  The cultured stone facades you can buy at lowes or online are essentially the exact same thing I'd be making, only at a cost of $750-1k+ just for the stone, as compared to $200.  The money on the framing and everything else would be spent either way.

Heres a photo I found online of what we're looking for in a finished product, with big windows included:
(http://deco-stone.com/english/wp-content/gallery/fit-stone-fireplace/fireplace-ds60-mist-drystack-ledgestone.jpg)

They CAN look gorgeous, in the right setting.  A Federal/ Colonial style room is not that setting.  Note the lack of ornamentation throughout the rest of the room in that picture.  The wall becomes a feature because it fits in to the spartan nature of the windows and walls. 

I'm not even going to argue on the rest, it's not worth it as your mind is made up. Hell, it's obviously made up on the design too so that's the last I'll say on it as well.

Basically what Merusk said.  The pic above has the fireplace/wall as the focal point of the room framed by the windows, but everything else is kept minimalist to not conflict.  Plus it looks as if that room were 1.5 or 2 storeys high, and not the more normal looking height of 9-10 feet (if that) of your room.  With the other ornamentation around the walls and the windows, I just can't see it working out too well.  Still, your place, your call. 

If my mind were already made up I'd have already bought the stuff.  The only thing that's 100% right now is 1) the TV is getting mounted above the fireplace, and 2) the brick has got to go.

My pictures are pretty shitty and it's hard to get a feel for the room, which is my fault.  Heres some pictures from the listing.  Note our furniture looks absolutely nothing like this, and is much more contemporary.

The wall between the living room (where the fireplace is) and the kitchen (wall behind stove) is getting removed and the opening will match the height of the other doorways.  Living room has 11' ceilings, family room that leads out to patio starts at 11' and slopes down standard height.  Every room in the house has the ceilings vaulted in some way, although only the living room is flat.  Most of them go up a few feet in sort of a conical turret shape.

Pics:

Their stuff does make it look extremely formal and traditional, but our style is much more contemporary and all of the tacky brass and outdated 80s look is going.  Kitchen is getting all stainless appliances, granite countertops, cabinet doors are having the inserts replaced with frosted glass, handles will all be brushed nickel/stainless, etc.  We're trying damned hard to merge traditional and contemporary together without it being jarring - which is why we decided on stone for the fireplace.  If we were just doing what we wanted and didn't give a shit about ever needing to sell this place (like possibly when I finish my undergrad and have to go a medical school somewhere other than Dallas), we would put in something like this:

It sucks, because we're having to not only design for what we like, but for what someone else might think in a few years.  We don't know for a fact we'll have to move for medschool, but it's a definite possibility.  I've looked at thousands of fireplace pics, and stone seems like the best option to meet in the middle.  With the open kitchen and new appliances/counters/cabinet doors, it will definitely look more contemporary, but the crown molding and wanescoting in the family room are staying, so it has a traditional vibe as well.

I'm all ears, I've just looked really fucking hard and can't find anything else that we think would work with the overall style.  Putting in a federal/colonial style fireplace surround wouldn't go at all with the more sleek feeling of the kitchen once it's done.

I would have just gone with some lag bolts into the studs that were there with a wall mount and not given a rats ass they were off center. Trick for future reference. Use a magnet to find the screws. Or push a coat hanger through and exploratory hole and fish around.

Course now you have a mess, so you do need to do something.  

I've asked three gay friends of mine to take a look and they all say, "Put it back how it was before." One of them suggested taking out the bricks on the floor as well as the ones in the fireplace and getting a piece of granite cut. Or go cheap and use 3 pieces and live with a couple seams, which is what I would likely do. You could buy a $79 counter piece and actually saw it yourself with a diamond blade and some water. Note you will get some small chips doing this, but put some tape on it where you are cutting and make it so the side you cut is covered by a small wood mantle you make. Wear eye protection.

Actually replacing the bricks with granite backing sounds a much better idea than the wall to ceiling faux stone plan.  If you're set on ditching the brickwork then I'd say go with that simply because what you're planning right now isn't going to look good. It looks awesome in certain settings (and I'd imagine when done in real stone by a skilled worker for a large amount of money) but I really don't think it's going to work that well in your room. Covering the brass is going to contribute a fair amount to making it less jarring with the kitchen and it would probably be enough to replace the brickwork.

What the two above said. 1 or 3 Piece granite with a simpler surround.  Black Granite w/ black firedoors will give it a more contemporary update that won't look out of place once the kitchen is done.  Your whole house would need a revamp to make the other design work

As Ryssa pointed out it was still a little squatt. You're stuck with a fixed width when a narrower one is called for, something that would be accentuated by the windows that are about 6-12" too short for that style.

Something like this:  http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/graphics26/skil-fireplace-mantle.jpg  with the granite.  It's simpler and more contemporary than a true colonial or federal fireplace because it doesn't have the detailing on the wood.  It's also more in tune with the overall style of the house.  For variations, I'd look at lowering the height of or altogether removing the wood header on it so that the granite is the strongest part of the top assembly.  In that pic it feels like there's too much wood.

As a longtime homeowner, the best advice I can give you is to do nothing for a year.  After the year is up, make a long term plan.  The biggest mistake new home buyers make is making renovations without a plan.

Or letting mold grow.

I'm really glad that picture was a photoshop. 

I'm with the other guys-  make sure what you choose fits the house and consider resale.  And slog has a great point.  Sit on this stuff and it will be easier to make the decision. 

This ^ and what Furiously's gay friends said.

Your wall of rock belongs in a mountain lodge or cabin, not in your house. It would be as jarring as hanging a stuffed elk head in that formal living room.

I feel bad for that beautiful house you're going to fuck up with your contemporary stuff. You see the panel framing? That's a certain style. Unless you're going to rip all that out, go work with it rather than against it. Also, classic federal style = $$.

Finally, the contemporary style you like so much, young one? That's going to be the cheesy brass 80s/90s look you hate sooner than you think.

edit - what the hell does the sugar mama do that you guys can afford a place like that while you're an undergrad?

Yeah, for every "contemporary" change that you make to the house you are literally costing yourself money.  You'd be better off to just go some nice contemporary artwork and/or furniture that you like.  Even that may hamper resale, because, as they say, presentation is everything.

Commission an artist to paint a large portrait of Einstein in a cigar jacket and hang that over the fireplace instead.

I'm behind this idea.

You ask this after they were so readily able to set up multiple webcams on a few hours notice?  :awesome_for_real:

My advise?  Leave the fireplace alone.

Buy some fucking trees.

Yep, fucking trees will produce more trees. Soon you will have a fucking forest.

Kinky

Then you can chop those fucking trees down and you'll have some hard wood floors.

I wonder how this thread is going over on the gun forum?

There are probably a few dead people by now.

2 replies, ~60 views, one guy saying he's in the process of doing the exact same thing and it's coming out great.  (except he bought the faux stone Lowes sells instead of casting it for 1/10th the price)

Our real estate agent is taking a look at some pics and helping us out, she's been working in the north dallas area for 20+ years and I trust her opinion more than anything else on what people are looking for around here.  She said it was definitely a good idea to ditch the brick.

I'd love to do the painting of einstein in a smoking jacket with a cigar, but as that's where the TV is going to live, it just won't work :(

If the TV would work anywhere else in that room, we'd just drop the fireplace or swap the brass and call it a day, but it doesn't really feel right where it sits right now, and since that wall is getting chopped down to open the kitchen to the living room, it definitely won't work down the road.  I'll snap a few pics of the room as it sits right now in a bit to give you guys a better feel for it.

When do you go to court?

Still no court date, but it looks like it will happen - apparently the landlord is 100% convinced that he has done absolutely nothing wrong and his lawyer hadn't seen any of the evidence yet.  Our lawyer sent over some of the particularly damning stuff, so now it's just a question of if his lawyer will tell him he's screwed and to try to end it quickly, or milk him for legal fees..only time will tell.  According to our counsel, it is hands down the best documented tenant vs. landlord case he's ever seen.  500+ pages of emails, over 1k photos, several hours of video, 10+ hours of audio, etc.

Side question:  I've seen lots of flat panel TVs mounted above fireplaces (wood and gas) but never really thought to ask the following:

What about the heat from the fireplace affecting the lifespan of the TV?  Just seems like a bad idea.

It's probably not a problem with newer fireplaces, i.e. last 10 years or so.  I wouldn't do it above an older, real fireplace though.

Most of the heat coming from a fireplace is directed out into a room, not upwards, and unless you're actually mounting to the chimney the wall itself won't likely get hot enough to cause problems.  With a wood fireplace you will inevitably get some smoke drifting up over your TV during fire startup & tending, but a mantel shelf can help deflect that.

Still, plasmas in particular run hot, so minimizing the amount of environmental heat may help extend their lifespan.  LCDs don't generate so much heat.

Edit:  the big issue with having it over a fireplace for me was actually positioning the center channel surround speaker--to put it at "proper" height would have meant pushing the TV another foot up the wall, and I wasn't comfortable with the viewing angle then.  So, the speaker went above the TV, and I moved the other speakers up some as well to balance things.  Purists would scoff, but it still works very well.

It's a full masonry fireplace that was built for wood, and then plumbed for gas.  It's just got a gas starter in it right now, we'll put in a gas log when we get around to it.
Area where the TV is going has several inches of brick, then some insulation board (foil lined on both sides, about 1/4" thick it looks like), then unfaced fiberglass insulation, then drywall.  Then it's getting framed out ~3" to be flush with the existing brick, and will have the air gap, durock cement board, metal lath, mortar, and stone/tile/whatever we put up.  Heat shouldn't be an issue, as the plastic vapor barrier (6mil plastic dropcloth, i think) showed zero signs of heat damage or shrinking.

So, heat shouldn't be an issue, but I may replace the fiberglass that's there with unfaced rockwool insulation just to be on the safe side.

RE agent got back to me on the design stuff, she said that the pic below is something she sees quite often and is pretty popular.  I think stone would come out looking better, though.  The only time tile ever looks right to me on a fireplace is if they use very thin groutlines and match the grout to the tile color.  Tile on a hearth never looks good - that edge just looks like ass.

(http://ntreispictures.marketlinx.com/MediaDisplay/50/hr3157150-4.jpg)

That's why they make bullnose tiles.

Ummm.  Yeah.  I got nothing.  The majority of folk here are telling you that your design isn't right.  It's up to you to listen or not.

1. Real Estate agents are virtually uneducated morons used to selling things to slightly more or less educated morons. They hear things like "I don't understand what this room is supposed to be" a lot.

2. See how that room looks nothing like your room?

Anyway, I'm with Hawkbit. I've said my piece and now look forward to the  :why_so_serious:

Got a picture?  I'm going to be replacing the Yamaha projection surround-sound system with built-in-the-wall speakers at some point and was wondering about the center channel as well.  Would having the center channel as 2 speakers on the sides angled slightly to aim at the center of the couch work?

Like this:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86041/Andy/home_theater_horrible_mspaint.jpg)

ZOMG THE HOUSE IS ATTACKING EINY WITH LASERS

Have you considered a pre-cast fireplace (http://www.mesaprecast.com/gallery.aspx)?  They look really nice and you could undoubtedly find something that would fit the style of your house more appropriately.  

I think something like this, in particular might fit the style of your house and your own personal tastes. 
(http://www.mesaprecast.com/CreateImage.aspx?image=~/assets/photogallery/pi-35-P1000023.JPG&size=475)

Feels too spanish-mission-y to me, but I'm not entirely opposed to doing something like that instead of going floor to ceiling.  Wouldn't really need to go pre-cast though, not too terribly difficult to build out a frame like that and finish it in whatever, only issue would be the curves.  If theres no protruding 'rough cut/hewn' stone look, the whole thing could be framed, covered with a smooth coat of stucco mud, and then the 'grout lines' for tiles just carved into the half-set mud.  Then just wait for it to dry, stain it, and seal it.

I cant figure out why he even bought a federalist style house given the predilection for a more modern style.
Why wouldnt you have simply bought a more modern design to begin with? Or some sort of ranch style home if you love the wall of rock ranch looking design for a fire place.

A lot of you have obviously never lived in Texas.

Design is... well it's pretty shitty.

Edit:  Pics added.

(http://www.emzeeinc.com/images/fp-vert.jpg)

Disclaimer:  This sort of installation would get you mocked endlessly by people like the folks at avsforum for being all kinds of wrong.  I tested it before installation, though, and I was happy with the results so I went with it.  After all, this is a living room with a TV, not a media room.

Anyways, that's a 9' ceiling.  For reference, the bottom of the left/right speakers are 6' off the floor.  Pushing the TV up to allow room between it and the (sitting in the basement and yet to be installed  :uhrr:) mantel starts to make it a strain on the neck.  

A couple of questions/comments:  where will your left/right channels go?  Eyeball-guesstimate says the "proper" placement is likely right where the windows fall; if you put your center(s) there you'll have to push the L/R out further past the windows.  It may work there, but I'd position the speakers and wire them temporarily to test the sound before cutting any holes.  I had a doorway that kept me from putting mine exactly where I wanted, so I had to push them in closer to the center--moving them further out messed with the acoustics too much.
(http://www.emzeeinc.com/images/fp-hor.jpg)

It looks like it could go closer to the door, but it really can't; the framing and electrical in the wall don't allow for it.  Which is unfortunate, since it needs to go about 2" to the right to visually match the left speaker (which is also constrained by stud placement.  Oh well.)

If you want to put two speakers on one channel, you'll have to do some minor math to get it to work right (and not melt down your amp)  Here (http://www.termpro.com/articles/spkrz.html) is an article on wiring speakers in series/parallel.  The author is talking about car speakers, but the same principle applies.

Lived, no.  Designed and built houses, yes.  It's really no shittier than any place else I've seen.  At least they include cabinets in kitchens of entry-level houses. (I'm looking at you, Chicago.)

They dont have "ranch" style homes in Texas?  :oh_i_see:

They don't include cabinets in entry-level houses in Chicago?  WTF?

That was pretty much my reaction when told. But yeah, nothing beyond a few base cabinets and a countertop.  If you're lucky you get a shelf on the wall.  Air Conditioning is also an upgrade-only option as is anything beyond rubber base mould.

These were all "cost saving measures" that the AP of my last employer wanted to implement here in Cincinnati because they were standard in Chicago.  She said there were more things than that pulled out of houses in Chicago, but I never got an opportunity to grill her for more specifics.

The notion that you have to match the features of your local competitors didn't fly with her, either.  She figured if she could get permission from corporate to implement them, driving our cost down the mere $5-10 grand would more than make up for the utter shell of a structure we'd be trying to pass-off on customers. 

Short term profits for long term harm.

Wow.  You learn something new about the evils of man every day. 

No idea what part of Chicago(land) that was happening in or when, because any parts I've looked at houses include cabinets and no rubber baseboards (WTF?  This back in the 70s?), not in new construction.

She was the DP for Centex in '08 so their entry level product at that time period, I'd guess.  No idea if they built it under another product title or actually used the Centex brand for their low-end stuff. (We're talking $100k -$150k houses)  No reason for her to have lied about it that I can think of.  vOv

Ed: Something occurred to me. Were you looking at finished and ready to buy or contract-to-build?  Production is notorious for never actually building the base model for Market(Spec) homes because it would never sell. Same reason you walk into a model and every conceivable structural upgrade and finish option would be crammed in. You don't know what you're actually buying unless you go over spec sheets very carefully and know what questions to ask.

Oh Centex.  Yeah, I've heard of them.  I hadn't known about the no cabinets part, but I had heard they were very low-end houses, very bare-bones.  Don't think they had/have the best reputation for quality houses in the area.

National production homebuilders rarely have good reputations.  Publicly traded ones are even worse because cutting corners and screwing subs is mandatory to maintain profit margins.

We have a developer joke in Atlanta. What's the difference between gonorrhea and a Beazer home?

You can get rid of gonorrhea.

Holy shit I suck at posting, see below.

Been meaning to update this for about a week or so since I got the TV hung, but :effort: stopped me.

So, here it is now, we're going to do the stacked stone, probably in a grey-ish, as that was the recommendation of 2 professional designers.

TV will end up being about 8-10" higher than it is right now, as the new mantle is going to sit right about where the bottom of the TV is right now.

Paneling stripped off wall:


Framing up.  16" OC all the way up, center conduit is for electrical, right one is coax, left one is empty now and will be for the speaker wires of the in-wall surround I'm installing someday.  Little black strip is a channel that runs the span of the fireplace, with an opening cut in the center to run stuff from the TV to components on left/right of fireplace.  Left/right conduits dump directly into the channel, which I'll be separating with an insert at some point to avoid AC/DC interference between power cables and A/V cables.

As it sits now:  Durock up, ready for metal lath, mortar, and the new facade.  Ugly brass shit is getting replaced with an inside-mount set of doors that will be either flush with or recessed from the face.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86041/Remodel/SAM_0836.JPG)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86041/Remodel/SAM_0838.JPG)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86041/Remodel/SAM_0839.JPG)

Had a few small snags on the way where I needed to go buy more tools, or screws, or foam, or whatever, but all together it came together pretty nice.  Stone will go up in the month or so.  Ordering the casting molds this week.

We did have a bit of fun in the middle of it though.  I bought some 12/2, and was getting ready to run a new 20A breaker to the outlet behind the fireplace when I inspected the panel.  There was some scorching around one of the breakers, so I had our HVAC guy take a look at it when he came to fill the new system with freon a few days later.  He made a bit of a  :ye_gods: face and told me to call an electrician.

We called our home warranty company (Old Republic), and they had a guy out 3-4 hours later.  He took about 30 seconds looking at it and said "Yeah, you need a new panel, I'll call the warranty company for an approval.  Hopefully they'll approve it, I'll let you know if they don't."

He called back about an hour and a half later and said they approved a new panel, and he'd be out the next day to install it.  Took him about 4 hours and he even tossed in the new 20A breaker I needed and made it hot for free.
Total cost for our new panel: $60 out of pocket.  Warranty company picked up the other $1300.

There was some sort of funky oily residue on some of the breakers too, and not your normal burning plastic oil.  It seemed like someone literally hosed down the panel with WD-40 or motor oil or something.  Maybe they were trying to reduce the friction of their electricity to make it run faster.

I really can't say enough good things about Old Republic right now, our microwave died and was part of a microwave/oven combo unit.  They couldn't get parts and cut us a check for $1700.  Then the dishwasher stopped getting shit clean, couldn't find parts for it either and they just told us today that they'll be cutting us a check for a new dishwasher too - $370.  Both appliances are ~26 years old.  We've had the house for 2.5 months, and they've already paid out close to 4 grand on a $500 policy, without once trying to pull some 'You're not covered for that' bullshit.



Old panel/breakers:

The TV seems pretty low.  Are you sure you want it that close to the fireplace?

Yeah, it's getting raised, this was the height Stef originally requested, and as we're not using the fireplace anyways I figured I'd oblige, knowing this was a temporary mount until the stone got put up.

I think the current top of brick/bottom of TV is a good height for a mantle (it's going to be a reinforced concrete mantle, so no fire proximity worries there), and the TV needs to sit 8-12" above that.  The Yamaha projection surround-sound system we've got will probably sit on the mantle until I get a proper 7.1 receiver and wire up in-wall speakers everywhere.  After that, center channel might sit there, or nothing.  Hard to say.

Edit: It probably looks even lower because of the high ceilings, too.  Right now bottom of TV is 47" off the floor, top is 77", and the ceilings are 10'.

That may be part of it, but I was mostly thinking in relation to the fireplace.  You never know, you might want to use it someday, and would hate to see it somehow fuck up your nice TV.

Right now it's got a gas lighter in it and was used as a wood-burning fireplace previously.  We're going to put gas logs in instead, and there will be a solid concrete mantle ~2ft above the opening and 8-12" below the TV.  36" and a big chunk of concrete should eliminate any heat worries on the TV.

Rather than dropping in a conduit to run various components to the TV, I found it easier to just feed everything to the reciever and then send that through an HDMI wallplate.  I'm happy with it, and I'll be getting another one to run from the server in the basement to the receiver.  That is, once they finish drywalling the basement and it's not a dusty hellhole.

Side note regarding worker  :uhrr: The heat in the house was off yesterday while they were hanging sheetrock, which I figured was just to keep the dust from clogging the filter or getting blown through the house. 

Nope.

After the workers left, the heat was still off.  I went down to the mechanical room to see what was up, and found they'd pulled the basement thermostat off the wall and unhooked it without powering off the system.   End result, they blew a fuse I didn't even know was in the system, and they didn't mark down which colored wire went into which un-color-coded terminal in the thermostat.  Had to get the furnace guys out at overtime rates to put it back together right. 

Either the contractor pays that bill, or he passes it onto the drywallers, but it's not coming out of MY pocket.

What type of panel was that?  I'm surprised your inspector didn't catch it.

Sylvania, electrician said he wasn't surprised as they're sort of shitty panels.  The scorching was half-hidden by some plastic plugs that covered some removed breaker knockouts, you had to get your flashlight and eyes at just the right angle to be able to see it.

But yeah, I'd expect an inspector to check a ~26 year old panel a little closely.  Oh well, at least the warranty covered it and nothing caught on fire or fried before we got it fixed.

I was chatting with the electrician for awhile while he was doing the panel - no electricity in the house so nothing better to do, and he was gun guy so we got along famously.  He said that out of all the warranty companies he does work for, Old Republic gives him the least amount of hassles.  American Homeshield, on the other hand, actually told him on two occasions "You need to find something that excludes this from our coverage" before he told them to fuck off and stopped taking their service calls.
So, if you're going to buy a house, call a bunch of electricians, plumbers, and appliance shops beforehand and ask them what warranty companies they do business for and which ones give them the least amount of problems.  We just got lucky.


Edit:

Hey Merusk, do you know much about spray-foam insulation?  Specifically doing a closed-cell application to the underside of the roof deck and running an unvented attic?  I'm really fucking allergic to dust and am going to vacuum out the old dusty cellulose in the attic this summer, and am trying to decide between blowing cellulose/fiberglass back in, or doing the sprayfoam.  I've found a lot of conflicting info on how a 'hot-roof' system can 1) totally fuck your shingles 2) not do a goddamn thing to your shingles, as it raises the temp maybe 1-3*F, much less than the difference between light and dark colors.
Also some reports about how Texas homes are built to 'breathe' and sealing the attic will lead to massive mold infestations, or how closed-cell foam actually *prevents* any type of mold from growing, as it doesn't absorb water and makes the house air/water tight.
HVAC system does sit in the attic, so keeping it much cooler in the summer time could help with cooling costs quite a bit.

Just remember, if you use it, spray foam insulation doesn't adhere to some stuff (like plastic) at all. It isn't applied how you'd think it was applied. An unvented attic MIGHT be a bad idea, and make SURE you account for humidity if you're going all insulation crazy. What I've heard says basically that when you seal your attic, you seal in moisture and moisture from you living in the house can migrate up there and encourage mold growth.

My stepfather told me a story of his friend who did exactly that to his house, re-did his windows, had terrific insulation, and found out that, well, he had a mold explosion within the year because none of the moisture that people created while living in the house was able to escape.

Yeah, attics are meant to vent for the reasons Bhodi listed.  If you're not venting the attic you'd better be conditioning or finishing the space (like on a Cape Cod).  At the least if you're going to do it, stick a vapor barrier down so as to reduce/ prevent normal moisture from breathing, cooking, showering, etc bleeding up into the attic. 

Since your HVAC is already up there, the normal bleed will probably do enough to condition the space.  We do the same thing up here with Sealed Crawl spaces vs vented and Basements.  Ducts are leaky SOBs, so sticking them in a sealed space knowing it'll condition the area somewhat vs venting it and blowing all that air outside makes sense to me.   

Here's some info I'm happy to share. (http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/more-topics)  The site was given to me by tone of the construction heads at my last employer.  They're on the conservative side politcally so some of their points are.. colorful.. but they're one of the only places I've heard of actually approaching construction scientifically vs. "this is how it's always been done."  (You hear that a LOT in the industry.)  They think sealing your attic is a good idea IF it's got HVAC in it based on this article: Top 10 Dumb things to do in the south.  (http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-015-top-ten-dumb-things-to-do-in-the-south/?searchterm=attics)  Note he said that a vented attic makes more sense from an efficiency standpoint (by 2-3%) only if your ducts are inside the house. Yours aren't.

As for specifics on dense foam insulation, I only know what I've read and have no practical experience because it's far too expensive for most production builders to bother with. The open-cell foams are 2x the price of traditional insulation and the closed-cells can be around 4x the price.   Their goal is the cheapest house that meets code and buyer expectations and additional costs like that, unless mandated, are always going to fall to the wayside.

I'm a fan of both of them because of the superior insulation value and the reduction of air infiltration.  (aka "leaks")  Open cells are around 3.5R/ Inch and Closed are around 6R/ inch.  Mineral batts are 3.2R/ Inch but allow lots of infiltration and when cut around things like Junction or outlet boxes they're typically left as blank spots in the wall. (Stick your hand near an outlet on the wall on a cold day and feel that draft!)  With foam you know it's getting in behind there and sealing things off.

On a roof you need to watch the weight, though.  Closed-cells can weigh about 2#/ cuft.  Since you want at least R38 on a roof you're looking at a min. of 1psf additional weight.  Not a huge amount, sure, but if your house was built by a guy just barely hitting the minimums on his headers you're overstressing them. (Well, not really because there's like 3 factors of safety in wood calcs.  Still, code is code so I wouldn't sign off on it if the calcs said "oh that needs a bigger header.)

Nice article, I actually stumbled on that site and found a different unvented attic article last night.  It seems like it's a great idea if I can get the foam done cheap enough.  Roof weight shouldn't be an issue, but i'll look into it to make sure.
Also, not only is our hvac unit and ductwork in the attic, but we have 5 skylights and probably 20 recessed can lights in the house, so I could see the savings being significant.

When I bought my house the inspector  :uhrr: passed the main plumbing stack venting into the attic crawlspace. One of the first things I did was put it through the roof when I was putting in the bathroom fan (bathroom was vented via window previously...). We didn't pull the ceiling and vapor barrier/tuck tape it though, I'll have to pop up there this spring and see if I can seal it from above at all. Even when you're trying to account for everything you miss a few things!