f13.net

Boxing Day (Canadian Black Friday) is coming up and I got a $200 giftcard from work for Christmas, so I want to get a hi-def TV. Just don't know if it's worth it to pay more for LED or if it's even worth it for an LCD TV.

I'll probably be gaming (PC, 360) mostly and watching the occasional movie. I've lost track entirely of what to look for or what matters.

Budget doesn't matter right now because the deals will obviously offset whatever is listed right now.

I'm still insanely happy with my Vizio (had it for just over a year), they did not have an LED model when I bought mine but if they did I probably would have gone for that, LED advantages: usually thinner, lighter weight, more power efficient, longer lasting.  I would also steer clear of anything below 120hz (aka 60 hz) and restrict the search to 1080p sets only.  

I guess a bunch of people have said don't go by what you see in the store because they are showing you content they have specifically tuned the set for or some such.  Not sure about this, when I bought my TV it looked like they were just showing cable broadcast football and such, I immediately ruled out a few sets that looked like shit (looked like they had a ton of jpeg artifacts due to scaling) and pretty much every 60hz set looked dingy compared to the 120hz+.

edit: oh yeah when figuring out what size, you want account for 4:3 aspect ratio content.  There is still a fair bit of this out there and if you don't turn the auto zoom to fill entire screen setting on (makes everything short and fat) it ends up not using a ton of your screen real estate.  My TV is set to expand the picture yet keep the aspect ratio and on a 47" watching 4:3 content feels like I am back on an old school 36" TV (size wise anyhow).  Also, while rare, some TV channels broadcast 720 content in a manner that foils your zoom (network logo's and shit in a border around the picture) so you end up with a 720p picture floating in the middle of your TV with a black border around it this basically turns my 47" tv into a 40" tv.

My boss recently bought a big (56") LED, but had looked at all the various options. It's really seems down to personal preference, LED is thinner than LCD, but I saw more light bleed and halos than on my LCD. Plasma claims to have worked out the dimming issues, and has less of an issue with burn-in. Of all the sets he made me look at, the Plasmas seemed nicest overall. Panasonic G25 series stuffs.

I'm quite happy with my several years old 40" 1080p Samsung, but the plasmas were tempting

I have a 3 year old Samsung LCD -- admittedly, I got the model with the good refresh and solid contrast, but I've been very happy with it.

Amusingly my father-in-law and two of my friends all, completely independently, settled on the exact same TV -- except we all have different sizes.

Got one of these (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=corp&sku=a4128913) about a month ago to replace a 60" DLP that went tits up (I missed the extended warranty by 2 weeks and so had to pay $450 for the replacement...argh). So far so good- I love it. My in-laws bought the 60" version, and theirs was bundled with a wireless adapter. Since they don't even have an internet connection, they gave the adapter to me, so I can do Netflix and such through the TV interface- very cool.

My only 'complaint' is that the sound varies WIDELY depending on the input source and even the channel. My old TV I would use 16-18 volume for playing Xbox games, and 20-25 for TV/Movies. On the new TV I go from 14-18 for Xbox to literally 50+ for some things. Not sure why, but it is mildly annoying.

I bought a tv about a year ago and the absolute best piece of advice they gave me was:

Buy a television one size larger than you were planning on. 

Regardless of the display type, I think this was sage advice. 

When considering size all purists methods aside you really can't go wrong with:

• It will physically fit in the room.
• Where you sit allows you to see the edges of the TV w/o moving your head.
• You can afford it.

After all the purists just came up with all that mathematical reasoning explaining why their TV is really the best for their space so that they had an explanation to give other than "This was the largest TV my wife would let me buy!".

Speaking of, my TV just went wonky. Power is on, blue light is on, but its just black screen. Previous to this it would just go black, but would come back if I powered the machine off and on.

So, to add to the topic, make sure you have a warranty or some such plan.

Absolutely awesome advice.


If you're spending several thousand dollars, sure.  Get the warranty that costs 400 bucks.  But if you're buying a $1000-1500 TV that is going to be $500-750 in 6-12 months, it's really not worth it.

Other than some small OLED screens, LED televisions are still LCDs, with the LEDs only replacing the compact fluorescent backlights.  That may or may not improve the picture.

Edge-lit LEDs are very thin, but the lights are spaced around the rim of the TV (hence the name "edge-lit") pointing in.  On a good model of TV, this is fine--you'll still get even screen lighting and your tv will be very thin & light-weight, but won't have any better picture quality.

True LED backlights can allow for better black levels in the image, because they can be turned off completely on small sections of the screen to allow those sections to be dark.  However, not all of these TVs are created equal; some don't really have enough "zones" to make the LED light useful for this.

-----

I *do* think it's possible to have too big a TV, but you can toss out the "rules" for size; it depends on individual tastes.  Just measure the space you have to put it in and the distance you sit from the screen, and look at the ones that fit that space from that distance to see which size works best for you personally.

LED DLP FTW

I don't think there's a big one with LED, though. If I had to buy a new tv and budget was a consideration, I'd get this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889248059

Room size considerations are BS. Games, movies, football on a really big tv are awesome. Unless you have an extremely tiny space. But when we were in the den while remodeling the living room, we were maybe 7' away from the 65" 1080p 120Hz set and it was great, in an very small space, just enough for the loveseat, coffee table and tv stand.

oh dam.....

Fucking marketing people.

In terms of picture quality plasma is still the best. If you are going to do a lot of gaming on it, however, burn-in is potentially a concern. Modern plasmas have various technologies to minimize this but it can still happen.

All else being equal (which they never are) the next best in terms of picture quality between plasmas and direct-view LCDs is an RGB ("colored") local dimming LED-lit LCD. These, however, use almost as much power as plasmas. At the bottom are "white" edge-lit LED LCDs. The only advantages those have are thinness and reduced energy usage.

Thanks for this, its been mentioned to me that LED isn't just there yet unless you're willing to drop some serious money, which I'm not. LCD have come down enough that if the high priced variant isn't THAT much better, why bother?

As for size, I was set on 42", but thought it would be better to go to 46"-52" if the price is right. As for accommodating 4:3 content, not a problem. I won't have cable when I move out and I download all my shows (16:9).

I've heard that Plasmas can generate some noise, but I've never heard it. Anyone know if this is common? Also, the giftcard is for Best Buy, so I'll have to buy there. Not sure if that limits my selection too much.


Is there a resource for burn-in? I do most of my gaming on my PC and it's iffy on whether or not I would actually game on the TV with my PC. As for 360, and potentially Wii, my time with those consoles is usually 2 hours or less.

I've played a fair amount of games on my plasma with no noticeable impact. My plasma doesn't generate any noise and is fucking gorgeous. Also they are generally way the hell cheaper than LED LCDs and the like. Would buy again.

Also I agree with the size comment; I thought it was possible for a TV to be too big. I was wrong.

My old beta machine agrees with you.

At which store is the gift card valid?

Follow the RFD boxing day forums (http://forums.redflagdeals.com/boxing-day-deals-f118/) as they generally have the heads up on the sales. LCD, 1080p, 120Hz are the things to stick with as minimums. I'd look at some of the features to see what models offer too such as a headphone jack, auto power off(current LCD is missing this and its an annoyance), number of connections, etc.

I've been using a 47" Vizio local-dimming LED-LCD for just under a year now ($1100 in January) as my primary TV and am quite happy with it.  

Honestly, the LCD/LED vs plasma debate largely comes down to ambient light - if you have a lot (nearby windows, etc.) go LCD (ideally local-dimming LED-LCD), as they generally have matte-finish screens, while plasmas tend to have glossy ones.  If you don't, go plasma, because the picture is better in ideal situations and burn-in isn't really an issue now (though you may see short-term image retention still).  Edge-lit LED-LCD isn't worth your time or money, IMO.

Best Buy.

Yeah, I've been watching RFD, but the Best Buy flyer/deals haven't leaked yet.

Might want to wait until February then, that is usually when BestBuyCanada has the lowest prices on name brand TVs.

One word of caution about Plasmas:

I bought a 52" plasma for @ $600 last Christmas. I love the picture and it gets plenty of compliments, but make SURE that the lighting in your viewing room is right. Do NOT put it in a room that has windows opposite the TV.

My last house had windows on the opposite wall from the TV, and I had to buy blackout curtains to watch the TV during daytime, the glare and washout was so bad. My plasma is crisp and beautiful in a dark room, but almost unwatchable if there is any direct light shining on it.

Now I have the TV in a room where the windows are on the same wall as the TV, so they don't shine on it. It is much better, and very watchable during the day. But at night I still have to turn off lamps or lights in other rooms that reflect off the screen.

Concerning burn in:

If you play video games on the TV, make sure you don't leave the TV on with the game paused for a while. I did once and I had a ghost impression of the game UI left on the screen for days.

DLP doesn't have any burn-in issues, btw. If you don't absolutely need a flat screen, I don't know why you wouldn't get more bang for your buck with one. *shrug* If you have an nvidia gpu, you can spend the savings on 3d vision and play almost every game in 3d on any 120 Hz DLP, too (because it can do checkerboard).

I don't have an extra 3x6 to accomodate the behemoth nor the want to have to lug a TV of that size around every time I move. Also, 73" is by far way too large.


Are they that much better than a boxing day deal? Or am I just more likely to have more selection that's on sale?

I had a great 46" Samsung until my house was broken into, now I'm looking at a 40" Sony.  I want 1080p for my Blu-Ray laptop and would like 120Hz for my football games.  But I just generally buy whatever picture appeals to me the most. 

Yes, the sales are usually much better just before Superbowl and you do not need to deal with the insane boxing day crowds.

My only TV advice is, don't overspend. There's so much innovation in TVs now that in a few years, you'll be wishing you had something newer. Buy something modest so that you won't feel bad about upgrading down the line.

(It's funny, my parents just replaced their old TV that they had owned for more than 20 years. Can any of us imagine owning the same TV for 20 years?)

(Yes.)

Silly Lantyssa, embrace our consumer paradise littered with crap that only works for a couple years before needing to be completely replaced rather than repaired.

I love both my 42" plasma and 50" plasma. And they were cheap.

I had forgotten about Super Bowl. Good call, Oban. I'm glad you came back when you did.


The most I'll spend is 6-700 tax in. I'm not an HD nut and it'll probably be my gf using it the most for shows/Mario Kart.

I was really close to considering this set. The I noticed how deep the thing is! Dam!

The depth wouldn't really bother me, because it would still be an improvement over the 65" projection TV the husband and I have now.   Still, one you can hang on the wall would be better.

Husband wants to get a TV for in his office after the new year and I'm having trouble accepting the need.  We have the 65" downstairs, a 42" in our bedroom and now he wants a 36" (or whatever) for in his office.  Do two people really need 3 TVs, particularly when one of us barely watches in the first place?

Less than 18"?  :oh_i_see:

I was just at my cousin's for xmas, watching football on his mid-40" plasma. He had a flat panel, but with the mounting system to angle it out from the wall, it was probably a foot deep at one end. And it's mounted to the wall, I move my furniture around three or four times a year (just did again this weekend). I can move the 65" set myself without much of a problem, carried across the house when doing living room reno this summer. Way better than my old 30" CRT behemoth.

Also, a 63" plasma 3d-capable and 1080p is around $3k, the egg has one 3d LCD (46" for 1400), the 60" LED-LCD on the egg is  over $4k. So a 73" 3d 1080p set for $1500? Pretty sound argument.

No one cares about your old, obsolete tech. Flat is sexy! And NiX is still transient, lugging an 18" deep behemoth is crazy talk.

Buy now while it is still has a growing featureset, once they run out of crap they can throw on to get people to upgrade they will go the Linksys route of "how can we build in the perfect amount of crapitude to have this product start degrading rapidly after the warranty is up."

Already happening.

Yeah, sub $3k home 3D is not here yet.

i just picked up this: Samsung 58" Plasma (http://Samsung 58" Plasma)

It's 1.4" thick and handles brighter situations rather well if need be (mine's in my basement, so that wasn't a necessity but is a nice perk).

CNET reviewed it really well and I had my eye on for awhile and it dropped by a third over Canada fake Black Friday.

Super happy with it - now if I could just find some time to watch movies or game on it...

Futureshop and Sony are putting up some crazy bundles for Christmas.

:oh_i_see:

I just got a Sony LCD 45" with 3D ready - just need to send in the redemption for the free playstation + 3d module + 3d glasses for much less than $3k.

Stay away from Panasonic's at all costs. The time bomb is ticking.

LG's had horrible colors.

I would have got a Samsung if I could afford one.

:why_so_serious:

Since I've been in the process of buying a new TV the last weeks I'll add my suggestions and experiences because I now know more about flat TV technology than I ever needed or wanted to know :(.

This will get rather long so if you can't be bothered to read all of my stuff I'll offer a TL;DR summary:

If you can't control the lighting in the room the TV is supposed to go in, if you play lots of video games or if you are overly concerned with your power bill get an LCD TV
If you want the best picture possible and you can control the lighting in your room get a plasma.

If you get an LCD and are on a budget don't get an LED lit LCD. You won't get one without serious brightness 'issues' for less than $1700 (doesn't matter whether it's edge lit or back lit)
If money is no object buy a LED backlit LCD (best option) or an edge lit one (still better than CCFL) if it's not from the entry level line.

Don't bother with 3D if you won't buy a specific panasonic display (VT20 series) because all other makers have serious 'issues' with 3D reproduction, which results in ghost images that can cause headaches and nausea.

Regardless of what you buy get a model that has color and brightness management so that you can calibrate the picture. Even the picture of budget or entry level TVs can be improved greatly when you have that ability.

After much deliberation I've chosen The Samsung UC46C750, which has no LED lighting but offers a great set of features and - at least if the reviews are to be believed - a great picture quality for around $1000. I'd have to spend twice that to get a LED-lit model from the same manufacturer that offers the same picture quality. Just to give you an impression.

Now for the long part.

You basically have the choice of buying either a Plasma or LCD TV. (well, duh)

An LCD is basically a matrix of liquid crystal pixels, each pixels made up of three - or in the case of Sharp's TVs - four sub pixels for red green and blue respectively. An LCD always needs a light source because the pixels do not emit light on their own. The direction of the crystals controls the amount of light that can pass through the sub pixel, this is used to create all of the different colors. The light passing through an LCD is heavily polarized and directed so the makers employ different technologies to make the panels viewable from angles by different control schemes and filter foils. Usually what technology the maker chose to achieve this shouldn't matter (and will usually not be mentioned) but each technology has different advantages and drawbacks. (one of those technologies is
usually meant when you encounter names like TN- or IPS-Panels)

The main difference of LCD panels is how the lighting works. You either have the choice of compact cathode fluorescent lighting (CCFL) or lighting with light emitting diodes (LED). LED backlighting offers a wider color gamut than CCFL, making this - in theory - a better choice because it improves color reproduction (and also has other advantages which I'll get to in a moment), however LED lighting has some drawbacks.

LCDs are usually backlit because this is the best way to achieve a (near) uniform distribution of brightness. The eye notices changes in brightness much better than changes in color so it's usually a good idea to keep variances in brightness to a minimum. Backlit displays are easy with CCFLs but not with LEDs. Usually one or two CCF-lamps are sufficient but LEDs are small and only emit primary colors (red green or blue) so you need three LEDs to create white light (white LEDs have been recently introduced by Philips but they haven't made their way into LCD backlights yet) and you'd need a lot of them to build a backlit display. Then you'd have to fine tune the light output of each diode to achieve uniform brightness across the TV, which makes LED backlit displays rather expensive.

So in order to cut costs the manufacturers offer LED edge lit displays. There the light source sits on the edges of the TV instead of at the back. The light is then distributed across the display by light distribution foils. If this is not done correctly then the display is noticeably brighter near the edges (where the lamps sit) and darker in the middle or it has really bright spots. These effects are called 'clouding' or 'flashlights' and this affects quite a number of budget LED TVs. (budget being the range up to $1500 for LED lit TVs of a decent size).

A display with LED backlight offers the best picture of all LCD types not only because of the wider color gamut but also because there is no single light source (as with CCFLs) each LED or LED segment can be turned off and on individually, improving contrast significantly. (Dark segments of a movie are really dark). They are also very energy efficient but rather expensive.

Plasma TVs on the other hand don't need backlights. They consist of small pixels that in essence are very small cathode ray tubes. Just like in an old TV each pixel has an electrode,  is either evacuated or filled with some sort of noble gas and has a phosphorous coating. By regulating the current applied to each cell the strength of the electron beam is controlled which in turn controls the color and brightness of the light emitted by each cell making each pixel in essence phosphorescent - as opposed to LCDs which need to be lit by an external source.

Plasmas still offer the best color reproduction and contrast levels. A black pixel in a plasma display is really turned off, while a black pixel in an LCD just means that the crystals don't let any (or at least nearly no) light pass, which isn't the same (a small amount of light 'bleeds through' the crystals because the lamp lighting the display is still on).

However plasma displays are much less bright than LCDs making them less suited for conditions where there is a lot of ambient light. Also the phosphorus coating 'ages' and it doesn't age evenly in each pixel but rather depending on how the pixel was used. A usually bright pixel ages faster than a a usually dark one, a pixel that has o show a certain color more than others ages more than a pixel that had to show colors more evenly and so on.

This can lead to an effect that is called "burn in". You basically get ghost images from content that was shown for along time. This is usually noticeable most with TV logos or HUD elements from video games (that's why US stations now refrain from showing their logos all the time or use transparent ones). If you know a place that uses those displays to show business news (with the band on the bottom showing breaking news or stock prices) you can usually notice it.

Manufacturers of current generation plasma displays claim that their devices don't suffer from burn in but people on the forums still notice the effect. While it may not be permanent the effect can last for days or weeks or might even only be removed by displaying an all white screen for a long period of time. Lastly plasmas consume a lot more energy than LCDs (especially LED LCDs) especially when they have to be bright.

So after a rather long exposition what would be my recommendation:

If you can't control the lighting in your room (room is bright or sunlight shines on the display from the windows) are concerned about your power bill or if you use it  lot for gaming buy an LCD.
If you want the best picture possible and you can control the lighting conditions in your room buy a plasma display. Also large display sizes are cheaper with plasma display.

If you chose an LCD there are still a few things to consider:

If you are on a budget don't buy an LCD with LED backlighting. You won't get LED backlighting under $2500 and you won't get decent edge lit displays under $1700 (The Samsung C8000 or Sony HX800 series are considered entry level as far as decent edge lit TVs are concerned). CCFL lighting might offer you only a smaller color space but you might not even notice the difference if you you are not a BluRay junkie and it is a matured technology.

If money is no object go for LED back lit displays or LED edge lit displays if they are not from the entry level line (but prepare to at least spend $2000 or more for a decent one)

As far as 3D is concerned. Right now there is only a single line that offers decent 3D support, which would be the Panasonic VT20 series of plasma displays. If you want the best picture and best (or only decet) 3d support get that one. Every other 3d-enabled model currently on the market has serious issues with crosstalk (pictures that are supposed for one eye are captured by the other one) which results in ghost images and can cause serious nausea and headaches. So if you won't get the Panasonic (which is a great plasma display) just don't bother at the moment.

Sky & his pet TV?  :grin:

(http://declubz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/ge-performance-tv.jpg)

That TV has a series of tubes, if you will.

Seriously though, great pic.

I sometimes forget that America is different. Seriously the US is the only country where there is still a market for rear projection TVs (what Sky calls DLP). The only thing rear projection TVs have going for them is price. You won't get larger size for less money anywhere else. As far as dimensions go the picture of the GE TV is not that far off though, those things are huge and the picture is not that great either.

Also every video game manual I know of has the 'don't run this game on a rear projection TV' disclaimer printed in it. (I don't know if it is  a valid concern since those things aren't even sold in europe anymore)

Old old rear projection TVs had burn-in issues. The modern ones are considerably different in technology and I do not think they have any bigger issues with burn in than any other TV technology out today.

Yes, that's a warning for CRT rear-projection. DLP is a whole different thing.

Sorry the rest of the world has to overpay for tv sets :p (I call it DLP because that's what they're called). And no, for dimensions, that picture is way off (I did get a chuckle out of it, though). I hope you're thinking of the old CRT RPTVs when you say the picture isn't good, otherwise  :oh_i_see:

But to be seriously for the minute, part of the reason I tend to soapbox over DLP is the misinformation and 7 years of great gaming on a DLP set. I honestly don't know why they get such a bad rap, it's great technology (especially for gamers).

Look at the bezel on this thing, it's about a half inch!

(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/89-248-059-V02?$S300$)

Heh, that's a very flattering angle.

So, boxing day sales came out and here's the 3 I'd consider:

Samsung 50" 720p 600hz 3D Plasma - link (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/samsung-samsung-50-720p-600hz-3d-plasma-hdtv-pn50c490-pn50c490/10152053.aspx?path=d8d62f8bf224f62eaa9ca854bc283c33en02) - $699

Panasonic 50" 720p 600hz - link (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/panasonic-panasonic-50-plasma-hdtv-tcp50c2-tcp50c2/10141595.aspx?path=37508b3da3dc110f43c8044afbe10bc6en02) - $599

LG 50" 1080p Plasma - link (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/lg-electronics-lg-50-1080p-plasma-hdtv-50pk250-50pk250/10159011.aspx) - $699

Not sure if they'll have more on sale or if what's listed in the flyer is it.

The Samsung and Panasonic panels only do the small HDTV resolution (720p), frankly I didn't think that they still sold such TVs. What's even more shocking is that these are 2010 model and not older ones sold at a bargain price. They are also only available in north america, you won't even find those models on the international web sites of those manufacturers.

If you want a big display on a budget those two might be OK. Keep in mind however that broadcast TV resolution and the native resolution of BluRy content is 1080. (Although for sports 720p would be a better choice). The way broadcast TV is produced however you might not notice the resolution on a 1080 display however so I won't throw it out on that alone. If you plan on watching a lot of BluRays or mostly the better produced channels like NatGeo HD consider a 1080 display.

More importantly since the panels are only 720p the pixel sizes are larger than on a 1080 panel of the same size so you'd have to be farther away from the TV to not notice the individual pixels.

Rule of thumb is that the distance between you and the panel should be at a minimum 1.5 times the diagonal size for 1080p, for 720p displays it should be twice the diagonal size (100''). If you sit closer you might notice pixelation if you sit much farther away you won't benefit from the higher resolution (your eye won't notice the details)

However for a few bucks more than that you'll get something that is much more current tech.

[edit] note to self: feet and inches are not the same.

Because CRT rear projectors are huge and have bad picture quality and until recently DLP rear projectors only did 720p resolution (or were ridiculously expensive with 1080p). Just look at DLP front projectors, you pay top dollar for a decent 1080p capable model. Cheap models tend to give you noticeable rainbow patterns (projection artifacts from the mirror assemblies of the DLP projection unit)

I have to say however that I'm not current as far as that technology is concerned because it is no longer available in Europe. My biggest issue however would be the additional cost of replacing the lamps, which last about as long as front projector lamps (2000 to 5000 hours) and cost a couple of hundred dollars. What are your experiences with that?

Also only two makers of DLP rear projectors are left (Mitsubishi and Samsung)

This is the boxing day trick that Future Shop and its owner, Best Buy, play in Canada.  They acquire substandard electronics from major manufacturers that can not be price matched elsewhere and then offload them on to the unsuspecting masses.  

720p is not what you want.  

Wait about a month for the super bowl sales to start and pick up a set with 1080p.  

3D is really not here yet for living rooms. Unless you enjoy blurs, headaches, motion sickness, and other wonderful side effects of the current sub-standard technologies that are available for less than 3k.

Can do! Guess I'll be sleeping in for boxing day.

In the US FOX and ABC broadcast in 720p while NBC and CBS broadcast in 1080i. I don't know what things are like in Canada but I would assume there's probably some mixture of formats there as well. That being said there's no reason to get a 720p HDTV unless you are getting a teeny tiny HDTV and even then it's debatable.

I had my 720p set since 2003, I replaced the lamp three times (the last time to sell it, so two lamps used in 7 years). First lamp was free under warranty, second one I paid $100, third I paid $80. Lamp life is around 6000 hours, 3-1/2 years per lamp for me. Given the amount you're saving vs any other tech at the same feature set, $180 over seven years is nothing.

You could do worse than Samsung and Mitsubishi, both have been solid sets, though I'd buy a Samsung over a Mistu most days. Anyway, you seems to have no idea what you're talking about with DLP, so please stop.

Sorry to jack up your thread clearing this stuff up, NiX. Just wanted you to keep an open mind about DLP, since price was an issue.

Looks like BB Canada is starting the Superbowl sales early this year.

Thanks for the heads up.

I am thinking about picking this one up for my son's room and it seems to fit your criteria as well:

(http://i.imgur.com/gRRbj.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/K4FDV.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/c8MSn.png)

The edge lit scares me. I was looking at this one (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/samsung-samsung-40-1080p-lcd-hdtv-ln40c530-ln40c530f1fxzc/10140413.aspx?path=ac647bfee3911ebeee46a0bab89df87aen02). Not sure if there's a catch.

Actually, this one (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/lg-electronics-lg-47-1080p-lcd-hdtv-47ld450-47ld450/10140924.aspx?path=6678bde63d39951cdcb151eb901ce639en02) looks decent too.

You know, bigger than you think you need and all.

Personally I avoid LG electronics and, other than penis size, bigger is not always better.

Reviews on those two are not so good, but your call :-)

I wouldn't buy LED edge-lit LCDs at that price. The 5 series is the entry level range of Samsung and even the 6 and 7 series edge-lit models have serious clouding issues.

Seems like Consumer Reports disagrees with you.

I don't really care.

I can point you to a dozen threads at avsforums and elsewhere with people complaining about clouding and ghosting issues with their series 6 and 7 TVs. It's also the number one issue for most of the reviews I've read in German magazines and online. I've even noticed it myself with the C7700 Model I ordered but have since returned, it's also not just a Samsung issue.

Ok but you realize we are not talking about the 6 and 7 series, yes?  The reviews are highly specific since the panels/components/assembly is different even within a line. 

Also, avsforums :awesome_for_real:     Far be it for me to point out the advantages of CR versus an online forum.

I find avsforum to be more reliable than CR. Sure, there's plenty of neckbearded insanity, but plenty of good, accurate info.

Yeah but my point is that if they don't get it consistently right in their more expensive lines then chances are that it's not better in the entry level line.

We are talking about the first or maybe second generation of TVs with that kind of backlight and technical problems that all manufacturers are dealing with to some degree.

For that price you'd get much more bang for your bucks if you'd choose a conventional back lit display and the difference is not that dramatic either between an LED and CCFL back lit panel. In daily use you'll notice uneven light distribution more than a somewhat larger possible color space. That's because chroma (the color info) is more compressed than luminosity and because the eye is much more sensitive to changes in brightness than color.

Our current television is about 17 years old.

Tax Return comes this week, so it's finally TV time. Sadly I missed out on a deal for a 55" 120HZ Samsung for $1200 over the weekend.

I was looking at the Samsung LN46C610 (Link (http://www1.thebrick.com/brickb2c/jsp/catalog/product.jsp?id=LN46C610&navAction=jump&navCount=7)). Seems like a good deal, though I get my tax return the same day all of the new flyers drop for stores, so I might have to wait. Any suggestion based on the recent batch of TVs that have or will be coming out after CES?

I got tax return but my wife eated it.

One more reason to never get married.

Found the LN46C650 for 898 at Wal-Mart and my friend can get me a 15% discount. I think that's my best deal right now. Any reason I shouldn't buy this model?

We should be buying a new TV soon.  Instead of replacing the lamp on our rear projection LCD, we'd rather get something more modern.

Again, we'll be getting something smaller than what I want.  :awesome_for_real:

Yah know, I was close to getting a 55 inch set. The lady would not allow it, something about "The room is to small" or something. Turns out, the 47 we got didn't even fit in the car.


I had to call a friend with a truck. I should listen to her more, but my need for ever larger appliances just gets in the way.

Fixed it  :grin:

What the hell do you drive? 46" fit into my girlfriends Aerio. AERIO!

With or with out the box?  :-P

With the box AND two boxes from IKEA.

I have this vision of when I sold my 75 gallon fishtank to some dudes on Craig's List and they showed up to pick it and the stand up in a civic.

If you're not worried about wall mounting, why not go for one of the mitsubishi DLP 73" TVs?  My brother has one and it's awesome, and my parents have the 65" - I think they're either just under or right at a grand right now for the 73" models.  Might not be as sharp as a plasma/lcd, but it's 3d ready and you'll get almost double the screen real estate going from 55" to 73".  (In native resolution, 1293sq inches for the 55", 2277sq inches for the 73")

I wish I had an option that would work aside from wall-mounting, I'd ditch our 50" plasma in a heartbeat for a 73" mitsubishi.

 :drill:

Bit off on price, it's $1300 at tiger.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6758550&CatId=1830

There are 6 different models of that exact same TV, ranging up to 2k.  No fucking clue what the differences are.  As far as I know they all have the 1080p's, hdmi's and are 120hz.  Maybe the more expensive ones also have built-in wifi?

I think he was referring to the big long discussion we just had on DLP sets.

Newer guts, and I think the new ones might not need the adapter for 3D conversion (to DLP checkerboard) for non-computer sources. They're really pretty great tvs, especially for the money. But hatahs gon hate.  :grin:

 :awesome_for_real:

Aside from the innate 3D ability of the DLPs, my problem with them is that they don't seem to be the best tool for any one job.  If you want great picture, you will be better off with a modern LCD, LED or Plasma.  If you want a bigger screen and more bang-for-the-buck, a modern Projector is probably a better bet.

Of course, this is likely because I am bias towards projectors.  Really, a good projector kicks the shit out of anything else, in my opinion.  I just bought my second projector a few weeks ago:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Epson+-+PowerLite+Home+Cinema+8350+Projector/1372995.p?id=1218254499896&skuId=1372995 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Epson+-+PowerLite+Home+Cinema+8350+Projector/1372995.p?id=1218254499896&skuId=1372995)

and it's the bees knees.  The glory of watching a movie or playing a game in full 1080p glory on a 150 to 250 inch screen is without compare.  And with this one, I can do it in broad daylight (I couldn't with my first one).

You do have to factor in the cost of the screen, unless you've painted up a wall for it? Can't a DLP projector do checkerboard, too? Also, a projector works only if you have a static location that has a big wall. I move my tv around at least two or three times a year, right now it's along a wall with a door, sometimes it's in the corner. I'd love a projector, but they're just too limited for my house. Good to hear the luminosity in daylight has improved, though.

I have two main locations I use it - first, on a wall in my office.  There I have a screen that I built with some screen material I bought on ebay and a wooden frame.  100 bucks, and very little hassle.  The other place I use it is for my living room (I have a super high ceiling, so I get a giant ass screen).  The wall is an almost mustard yellow/brow color, and to be honest, the projector does a fabulous job of making it not matter one bit.  In short, the screen is probably more for aesthetics than anything else.  Of course, this means that I don't have my projector fixed in one place...I can (and do!) easily move it.  Having good, large walls is a must, though.

The luminosity improvement is probably more a consequence of the price.  The cheaper ones (including the $700 model I had before) generally don't cut it, despite their wild claims of high lumen power.  That's all marketing nonsense, as you surely know.

Oh, and yeah, the DLPs can do checkerboard (some much better than others).  My old DLP does it, but it messes up the color wheel, rendering it essentially unusable.  I mean, it works, but you get, for example, everything in your right eye to appear in shades of blue only.  Pretty annoying.

Yup, that's exactly why I will never own one before owning a house. They're just too large as a single unit for the amount of space I have available.

Loving my Samsung so far. Size is perfect, detects my computer sharing media and has a built in Netflix app. Just need to pick up a home theatre system, but at a loss for what's good. Have wireless speakers come along enough to be a worthwhile purchase?

What does it mean by PC Input (VGA or DVI)?

In this case it means VGA.  But it's no problem, because you just get a little dongle to convert DVI to HDMI and you're golden.

Or you can use a DVI-HDMI cable. My video card came with one.

I just bought this for $1400 CDN:http://reviews.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/lg-plasma-tv/lg-60pk550.html (http://reviews.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/lg-plasma-tv/lg-60pk550.html)

Seems like a good deal for a 60" 1080p.  I got a plasma primarily because the room its going to be in is fairly dark most of time and even with the blinds open it wouldn't get much direct light on it (and because plasmas are cheaper).  I don't do much gaming away from my pc so I'm not too concerned with burn in.  Also, getting it delivered because theres no way I'm: a) fitting it into my car B) carrying it into my home. :ye_gods:

My TV came today.  Getting it delivered was the way to go since it was freaking huge and heavy.  I could barely lift it up unto my TV stand.  Well worth it, though.  The soft glow of 60" of electric sex staring back at me has been awesome. :heart:

HD porn?

160 lbs?

(http://www.thisblogrules.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/girly-man-republican.jpg)

My 65" Mitsu is only 85 lbs, though.

:oh_i_see:

What is the difference between LCD & PLasma?

Watching an LCD will give you herpes, watching a PLasma will not.