f13.net

It just blows my mind when I recall playing the game at release, then think about all the new features that have changed the game forever. I mean, there weren't even meeting stones! Now we have our LFD tool that not only finds groups for us, but teleports us there. Thoughts on the game now and then?

Sucked then, sucks now.

I do different stuff now than I did then but it still feels like the same game. Fortunately I like that game.

Yeah, but you like LOTRO which most here hold the same opinion of.   The games are for two different player types.

Some things haven't changed. Still can't customize my avatar. Barbershops were a step in the right direction though. Maybe one day.

You should ask this question again in a few months.  They've made a lot of changes and they're about to make a lot more.  Things will be different enough to change some people's opinions.

Yeah, it's going to be wildly different at that point.

I welcome my half an hour (+ In some cases waiting on others) game time back. Glad more games are doing this.

Slowly but surely they made the game tailored to what I would want.  It is deep enough to be a nerd, but casual enough to do it all in small bites.  Sure, if you want the best of the best, you need to set aside 3-4 hours for a raid, but even with that, you can cram in way more content in that 3-4 hours than you could before.  Just reducing the amount of trouble from the logistics of organizing a 10 or 25 person group has been a huge improvement.

Quest design and layout for levelling is a ton better.  I'm hearing even more imrpovements to this in the expansion too.  That's a good thing.

There's like, two other threads in here on this general topic.

I will submit this is 100% accurate.  I suppose I liked it more at release, to be a bit more precise, but as you said I am looking for something else.

I do sometimes consider coming back but then my old pals drop my lv30 in Scarlet Monastery and tell me to kill shit for a few hours while they go do "fun stuff".  Maybe I just need new pals. :oh_i_see:

My crystal ball computer screen sees this thread derailing into another nostalgic "What I miss about wow" thread,

I liked vanilla WoW for all its faults and plusses. It was nice to have other people to play with while leveling, as opposed to going from 1-80 basically alone now. Plus I basically hate all of Outlands....god awful zones IMO.

Off the top of my head things that are better now.

~Battleground exp
~Cheaper mounts at lower levels
~Random dungeon finder
~No spec feels useless(like boomkins or spriests in vanilla)
~mage food/water being combined
~Rep grinding via tabard.


There's other things but those stand out.

Mounts at 20.

I about had a spontaneous nerdgasm when I found out the "Exit dungeon" choice zaps you back to EXACTLY WHERE YOU WERE when the group popped.

 :awesome_for_real:

I had fun with the slow pace in Original WoW.  Once.  Traveling back and forth across the whole world to go through every single 30-40 zone to get enough quests to level is an epic journey that does not need to be repeated.

I do kinda miss the lack of universal knowledge we now have (wowhead, etc.) in some ways, since it takes away some of the mystery of the world itself.  Thottbot was always sort of a clunky mess of unreliability so it wasn't as universally referenced.   But I think the immersion loss is outweighed by the various frustrations that are removed.

The Dungeon Finder is a HUGE improvement.   I  :heart: that thing so much.  The whole hanging out in city to chat-spam to find a group always took FOREVER and then it was an endless series of:

afk I need to grab a smoke before we start
where's the entrance lol
is the druid afk?  hello?
drop him, find another
IM HERE GOSH
ok let's go
afk 5 min
(20 mins pass)
(a single gunshot is heard from my computer room)

Multiply by 10, 25, or 40 for raids.  Man, I hope they put in a Raid Finder.

Well, the LFD tool, while awesomely efficient for finding groups, is a pain when you get, say, Mara, and only 10% of people have a clue how to get in after a wipe. But I guess there was that same problem when everyone had to go there. Also, my friends list was full when I quit in BC of good players I'd met doing instances. Now, I rarely add someone because I seldom see people from the same server in my groups, and even more rarely are they good players, AND there's no point in asking them to join you for an instance unless they're a tank because, as a healer, I get rapid pops regardless. I mean, I met some of my favorite people in the game leveling my shammy... not so for my next char.

On a different note, mounts at 20 ARE nice. And so are heirlooms. And Vision, how could you hate ole Hellfire Peninsula?!

proudft, there is currently a raid browser that nobody uses.

Yeah, I mean a cross-server one, to bump up the population using it, and automatically make groups.

No one ever knew their way around Mauradon anyway, you know.   :grin:

I was honestly surprised you get placed outside the dungeon when you died. Blizzard hates players.

The raid browser was used heavily until they added the dungeon finder, then for some reason they took it off that UI button and moved it to the raid frame instead, so I think people just don't know where to find it to use it anymore.

Come now, if you think you get bad pugs from cross-server 5 mans, imagine the capacity for bad possessed by a cross-server 25 man

That piece of shit better get wiped off the face of the planet with Cataclysm hits. I pulled that with my mage, and spent 10 minutes running around after a wipe to find the entrance. And I'd RUN that fucker several times before.

Goddamn maze.

lol, I was once part of a 6 hour Mara run... we did finish though! If I hadn't been playing with people I liked there's no chance I would've stayed for 2 hours, let alone 6. The place is an awful, huge maze.

The only downside I've experienced cross-server LFD is loot-ninja type drama.  As far as capability to actually get the instance done, it's improved for me, if anything.  What makes the Heigan dance harder on other servers than ours?   There are always people who fail at stuff like that on every server.

I'm also assuming if they added cross-server raid it would give you the random 5% boof and not be designed as unforgiving.  Planned for this from the outset, basically.  Automatic grouping would also get rid of the gearscore nonsense, which drives me up the wall as someone with a lot of alts hovering in the 4800-5000 range and perfectly capable of doing ICC but who get inspected and denied because people are cowards.  So I have an ulterior motive, as well.   :oh_i_see:

I just finished doing Loremaster with my main, so I was thinking about this question a lot. What the experience reminded me of is that Blizzard's basic schtick with WoW has always been to take the sum total of what's out there in MMO-land, throw away the dumb features and technical hackery, improve the best ideas in game-mechanical terms, and offer up a polished product. This means inevitably that the older layers of the game compare unfavorably to the newer stuff, but they're also an archaeological reminder of what MMOs as a whole used to be like. Now that there aren't any left that really matter worth a piss besides EVE, which is the one MMO that WoW cannot in any way borrow from, it's no wonder that the devs are cluelessly dicking around with social networking and so on. There's no one left to cherrypick from, and no product that they can make look like a bargain-basement reject simply by doing it better. The oldest layers of vanilla WoW left are basically like a Proustian madeleine that reminds you of playing EQ and AC1, and then you're reminded of why WoW seemed like such a breath of fresh air in comparison. It isn't that it was radically different: it was the same, just pleasant and enjoyable and relaxing in comparison to EQ assraping you in every way it could concoct.

But now the old WoW looks like vanilla looked in comparison to EQ. I was kind of stunned to remember suddenly what the experience of levelling 1-60 was like: quests that took you back and forth between distant zones not just when the intent was to make an epic experience, but routinely, for utterly banal Fed Ex content. How rough the edges were at times. How awful in some cases the instance design really was. And yet, and yet. Kind of charming precisely because it reminds you of how much the experience was driven by endurance and tooth-gritting determination to collect...all...those...fucking...shredder...pages and so on. It didn't seem so bad because the comparable experiences most of us had were far, far worse. (Or so different as to not merit comparison, as with pre-Trammel UO.)

In a way, I really regret Cataclysm, because this is all important historical data, in a way. You could use the old parts of the game to teach new players about the history of MMO design, really.

There's an underlying repercussion from it, server community as a whole has gone down as you no longer need to get involved. This has had some direct effect where you no longer need to know about players on your server or its user base leading to an increase in on realm ninja looting. On a mid population server an unguilded or unknown are running ICC/VoA and just stealing loot with little repercussions as the user base has no idea who to trust.

It would be interesting to see but I'd be willing to wager pug/raids pre and post LFD has had a major increase in ninja looting.

Well, we can totally just talk it up more!    :awesome_for_real:

BACK IN MY DAY WE HAD TO COLLECT 140 SHREDDER PAGES AND WE ONLY HAD 24 INVENTORY SLOTS.  AND THEY WERE RANDOM DROPS ON THREE SEPARATE CONTINENTS.  UPHILL, BOTH WAYS.

Ninja looting and bad behavior in PUG raids has not changed since they added random queues to the dungeons, in my experience. I don't think there's any correlation.

I'm wondering what server this is that had a decent community to begin with.

Ninja-looting is only truly possible with Master Looter anyway, another thing I wish they would just suck up and kill off after they add more reasonable restrictions to rolling.

EDIT: More on actual changes in the game, though:  I really like the reactive method they have added to almost every class's abilities over time.  It's allllllmost gone overboard, but it is far more interesting than, say, frostboltfrostboltfrostboltfrostboltfrostbolt.

Oh, the glorious frost mage one-button rotation!

I both hate and love the LFD tool.  I love it because it allows me to play the game when I want and do it quickly.  I hate it because, to me, it takes the sense of world and dimension out of the game. 

It's still great fun though, and efficient.  But it takes a bit out of the game though.  Something is lost.

Funny because I was yet to file a petition pre 3.3, and post 3.3 I have done probably 5. Our realm might be outside the norm but the same core group of friends I have played from launch have all noticed the same. Besides a structured 25man guild runs or our own 10 I've given up on pugs.

Either then that it's awesome for leveling a hybrid  :grin:

Not mine, that's for sure.

I think the only way you could ever perceive a server having a good community is if you're in a fairly top tier guild.  You pretty much don't need the community for anything and everyone  treats you like royalty. 

Every server also has some smallish cliques that tend to dominate the server board and stick together in game, but I wouldn't confuse this sort of entity with any sort of community.

This.  Some guilds are just known, and wearing their tag automatically gets you into raids because of it.  And some guilds are just so damn awful that having their tag can actually lead to you getting turned down or kicked out of a raid, just because of how bad the average player in said guild is.  We aren't the highest tier on my server, but we still have people bugging us to join since we do clear 95% of the 25-m raid content on a weekly basis.  If your server doesn't have much of a raiding community it can be replaced with PVP or just drama and socialization, but mostly it's the top raiding guilds that the loose WoW communities are built around.

There's also the /trade "community" but that's usually just morons doing the anal [rofl] routine and other stupid shit and they tend to be ignored.

I would never join a pug raid with a master looter I didn't know. There are just too many people looking for easy ways to get rare things (twilight drake from OS 3D, for one. Speaking from experience here...).

That's every MMO community in ever really.

I might be more likely to invite someone to my raid if I see a prestigious guild under their name, but I will be no slower to boot them if they're terrible, and they won't get any "you're awesome" comments till they prove it.

EDIT: Hooray! The mouthed potato has joined my thread!

I feel this way about Wailing Caverns. I want it to fall into a pit of lava and never return.

*Lots* of vanilla instances are like that. BRD comes to mind. And both upper and lower Blackrock Spire are just sprawling endless mazes full of enemies. They can take forever if you don't know where you're going.  They changed things completely in BC and made instances a lot more linear, with way fewer optional mobs/turns down paths with 100 enemies and no boss.

Yeah, it's just that for some reason Wailing Caverns pisses me off more than any other instance. I can DEAL with BRD. I can DEAL with Uldaman. I can DEAL with Mauradon (although I'd rather not). But Wailing Caverns? Fuuuuuuuuuuck yoooooooooou.

I would love a random raid finder; honestly all my best raiding memories are of terrible PUGs.

Actually they should just add a button that drops you and 39 other people straight into Heigan's room. Nobody who gets hit by fire gets loot. That would be awesome.

That would NOT be awesome. 40 people together would destroy my FPS so utterly that moving even one step might take a minute or two.

Having had to go through a lot of vanilla instances to finish Loremaster, in a situation where I could basically pull the entire instance in one go and instakill it once they were all on me, I was kind of stunned at just how bad Wailing Caverns is--I'd avoided the place since the first time I ran it a million years ago.

BRD at least *feels* like a city: it's huge, winding, intricate, ultimately totally annoying but there's a lot going on. Mauraudon is at least interesting in the two entry paths + second half + optional bosses. Wailing Caverns? It's endless and almost totally monotonous. It took me forever to get through it even with the mobs posing absolutely zero threat. The dev who did it really needs to be kicked in the crotch repeatedly, once for every time someone's gone through that place.

One other thing that struck me: a lot of the instances have no way out at the end.

A couple of random changes that come to mind... 

1)  Mining is now one hit/loot all.  Ahh the days of node stealing.

2)  Improved quest log with waypoint mapping.  Resubbing after a year's break, this was one of the most noticeable changes for me.  Even the location of the wandering monsters and such is noted on the map for each quest.  Face-roll easy.

For me, it's that one lone boss over in the snake tunnel side, as far as possible from every other boss.

Its probably a better game now, but I enjoyed it more then. :headscratch:

My favorite time was in BC but that might have been because I got to do all the raids(up to Brutallus). But I also liked Outland, for the most part  :awesome_for_real:

I was going to say I liked TBC, but the more I think about it, the more it appears to be the shit sandwich it was.

Firstly, there were warriors. They sucked. Once the server(s) were stable enough (after maybe 3-4 days) I could finally fly my warrior to Honor Hold and get really started. The suck became very apparent, very rapidly. Three days of it and I was done. The last straw was grouping with a guild feral druid--whom I outgeared--and seeing the difference in a fury warrior vs. a cat druid. Pathetic.

So, secondly. Since I had a few days of server suckitude to level my draenei shaman, I said screw it, I"m going shaman. Enhance of course. Wasn't so bad early on, but became very apparent you didn't have the mana to use spells. So you were strictly melee with some spells if the shit really hit the fan. Worked OK, but was getting really tired of it...then the nerfs came down prior to the WS fix. Combine this with an account getting hacked and this was the third time I quit WoW (and the longest).

Thirdly. I finally got talked back into WoW (still not sure how). Picked up the shaman and slammed her to 70. OK, great. Class was better at this point and I could actually use spells--which was as cool as it seemed 4 months earlier when I rolled the character. Problem now was gearing up for raids. Gee, I'm a shaman I can't do heroics: no CC. I think I did exactly three in two years of TBC. Shades of the GS bullshit of today. Anyway, finally got into some raiding and had a pretty good time from that point.

Yeah, looking back, it wasn't a great experience overall, but I did have some good times. I still can't help but think it was despite the gameplay, but not because of it.

exactly.

Something about the linear instances and quest finders/helping UI took the mystery out of the game. I was so overwhelmed when WoW came out that I was so excited to level up a character and get good loot.
Now I know all I have waiting for me is another grind through ass holes in raids and my own guild ladder to actually getting good gear. Is making the player run 45 minutes from SW to IF bad game design? Maybe. Do I look back on those memories with total nostalgia and wish those days back again? Probably.

I had the good fortune of meeting an amazing tank at level 40 on my shaman, and leveling all the way to 70 with him. He broke CC on purpose if people tried, and almost never lost aggro, as a warrior.

Back in Vanilla WC was my favorite instance. Maraudon/BRD were both more confusing to me. I remember running my buddy's druid who was new through WC until he had the whole fang set. Every horde character I made did WC at least once. Mostly it was just really convenient, you were out there questing in the Barrens anyways, and there's like 6-7 quests in there, it was great exp. Only thing that was annoying was how damn slow the escort guy was.

Leveling arms is and was much smarter than trying it as fury.

edit to add my fave instance of all time was scholomance. Nice setting, not too long and with bosses spread throughout.

Most times it's not an issue, but goddamn if every now and then a quest pops up and I can't, for the life of me, find the goddamn mobs or where to look for the foozles. And that just pisses me off to no end.

Exploring for exploring's sake is fun. Running all over the map looking for Red Juvenile Left Handed Greebles is not.

WoW has become very efficient at deliviering it's fun to us. It's becoming more and more a pure amusement park experience, without any of the other stuff that made previous MMOGS fun, or frustrating.

It was never about "beating the game" for me, it was more about being badass amongst where you were in the game. Whether it was level 20, 40, 50, w/e. This was probably because I played with a huge group of friends. With all of the streamlined leveling additions it more or less deleted this aspect of the game imo, and focused on holding the players hand all the way through end game instances. Forget having fun with a group of friends completing outside of anything pre-Naxx since instances, prior to Northrend, just aren't worth it in terms of leveling XP.

I'm not sure I agree with this per say.  I've recently been bringing a protection warrior alt up, currently level 50, and have found the classic dungeons to be worth doing with dungeon finder.  Yesterday I got at least two levels from Zul'Farrak and it's associated quests.  Cataclysm revamp will only make this better.  I just saw where they redesigned Stockades into a three winged dungeon which will be fun to check out a time or two.

Now people just mine a node, take the ore, and leave the stones!

Drove me nuts mining Thorium in Un'Goro.

Until I quit recently, I had a Sunday night group where a bunch of friends and I did an instance or two (or holiday stuff).  Up to that point we'd get roughly a level an instance and we comparatively over-geared since we'd have blues to wear the second we got high enough to equip them.

It's amazing how different the game becomes when you have better gear than you need.  Instances that were a fun challenge in greens become trivial with good gear.  

I'm not really motivated by gear, but even I feel like there really isn't much to do once you have the gear available to you at the highest level you're willing to go. At this point, I'm literally logging in for two hours every Sunday to get our 10 man crew together and continue our tries on the Lich King (so far we've mastered phase 1, the transition, and phase 2, we've gotten through the transition once into phase 3, but with a few dead). That's pretty much been most of July right there, where I probably played less than 10 hours in the month total.

The only reason I'm still doing that is because I love a good challenge in the game, and it's really the only one left for us. Even if we beat him, it's not like we'll farm the boss since there's nothing we want. We might try Ruby Sanctum at some point if we get really bored, but we have all the badges, we can steamroll any heroic basically asleep at the wheel, and pvp is just plain silly. We did 25 man up to the point where I just got sick of trying to juggle rotating rosters, and we'd reached our competence level at 7 bosses in.

Even our guild is feeling the malaise heavily, and this is a 10 year old guild. It's August and the boredom has taken over completely.

You know what makes a big change? Flying. I know it was introduced in TBC, but once you have the Z-axis, it changes a lot.

Don't want to deal with trash between you and the widget you need to collect? Fly over them. Want to do gathering? Fly above and drop down right on it. Mountain in your way? Fly over it.

Effectively, once you can fly, you've pretty much removed the "crap between where I am and where I need to be" killing. You've also removed the "fight my way to the resource" things, and even the "get around the bloody obstacle in the way" bit.

Since I can now -- finally --- fly in Northrend, I was shocked at how much quicker I could do, well, anything. Quests. Moving around. Exploring. Resource gathering.

All our good DPS took vacations or left the game, so we have 15-20 regulars unable to do anything because all of the remaining players in PUG channels are just so damn bad it's not worth our time anymore.  I understand that not everyone has ALL the gear, but when you can't even beat a warrior tank on DPS and you have a 5600+ gearscore, either you are really bad at your class and don't know any better or you are just plain lazy and we aren't bringing anyone like that long anymore.

I quit before WotLK and only began playing again a few months ago so I still haven't seen all the content and it still isn't boring. Lucky me  :oh_i_see:

Not too long?

Surely you jest.

Until they retuned that place and made it 5 man only, doing that place with 5 people was several hours of painful trash killing hell. Sure the instance had a cool layout and theme, but the trash was both hard to kill and stuffed in like sardines.

Oh, someone had to go and mention scholomance.   :ye_gods:

RAEG

I ran that place over 90 times and the dreadmist helm never dropped. It had trash from hell with magic-immune mobs, summoner mobs, huge amounts of trash in general, quickly respawning trash, trash-that-wiped-you-if-you-pulled-more-than-one, and you had to clear to rattlegore every single time you ran the instance. About the only cool thing was using the Argent Dawn cube to kill a ton of skeletons in the study room.


edit: oh yeah, the loot was pure shit too until the revamp (a boss having a chance to drop a green? wat?). Even after that, most of it was useless...

I remember the days when scholo was still tuned like a raid instance, and it was possible to go in there with 10 people and STILL wipe on trash repeatedly before getting to a boss.   I swear, vanilla scholo at launch was like ICC 0.1.

Its just so insanely difficult to compare the two.  Scholo at launch was damn hard, no doubt. However, things were just so hugely different back then.  Tanking mechanics were different, +healing or spell damage (Spellpower) gear was non existent for most players as tier 1 raid gear was still reserved for the most hardcore.  Itemization was crap in general, and most people were in greens and blues if lucky.   

Its a little hard to remember the game back then because it was so different, but I think the difficulty was as much related to a variety of game mechanics that are a lot different today than to the design of the instances themselves.

Yeah I look at how I had to tank back at release and just think 'ugh'.

KIDS TODAY HAVE IT SO EASY

Three sunders before you dps god dammit!

You must have played on Alliance.

I would have pit stains down to my waist after tanking Zul'Gurub. I wanted that raptor mount so fucking bad back in the glory days. 

I didn't care for sunders, I just waited 10 seconds, and I could still pull aggro off a tank with no problem, five consecutive frostbolt crits could do that in TBC.  Which happened every fucking time I ran Gruul, even in fucking blues.

and this is why you waited for sunders. sometimes the tank wasn't sundering immediately and it could take more than 10seconds to gain an aggro hold.(also i played horde in vanilla so no pally blessings)

The real lesson is, you dps when the tank says you can dps, or you can pull aggro and die.

As I've geared up in WoTLK -- and this is still pre-80, just replacing a random assortment of quested greens for decent blues from dungeons -- I've had to suddenly start paying attention lest I yank aggro off the tank. (Really started when I snagged a snazzy bow that was a giant upgrade. Of course, my bow skill was 1/380 at the time, so I had to go shoot at deer for awhile).

We were doing...I dunno, some thing full of dwarves and golems and shit. (Got me a new cape and new chest). I had Viper up and was having to watch be careful to pace out bestial wrath, kill command, and my trinkets lest I generate too much aggro, although that's generally when the tank was corralling multiple targets. On a boss, not as much of a problem yet.

I haven't had any bad tanks -- mostly just remembering I can't always spam my max DPS now that my gear is reaching parity with everyone else's.

I've noticed that when you stop looking for upgrades as a tank, you can get easily rushed by dps who have expanded into the next tier. For example, in 10 man regular raids, I'll get pressured by our resident druid who is sitting on 7 items that are 264 or better. At that point, we're way overgearing the instance (even I have nothing to gain there), but the difference does become apparent when he goes all out and I can't relax until 3-4 minutes in a fight.

If only hunters had a way to drop a lot of aggro all at once, or even transfer it to others....that'd be something wouldn't it?

I do that. :) Admittedly, I don't bother with misdirection unless it's on bosses (I'm not Marksman, so I don't have a lot of high-damage openers) and rarely then. I'm new to these instances, so I don't do pulls either, so misdirection is mainly a waste of mana.

I FD if I grab aggro, but I don't see any reason to blow my cooldowns, grab aggro, then FD when I can just space them out and get pretty much the same DPS by being a little more careful.

And I continue to work under my belief that, as a pet class, part of my job is to have said pet get any wandering mobs off the healer. Which reminds me, I should start taking my turtle into instances with me, get him up to my level.

I do love the "growl on/growl off" dance I have to do if I need to suddenly yank aggro off a mage or priest. :)

In TBC, my Moonkin just tanked whatever aggro I snagged. I miss that armor bonus :(

As far as I am concerned, regardless of gear level DPS needs to lrn2omen.  If they can't be bothered to watch their threat and continue to pull mobs, that is their problem.  My warrior has more trouble with it than my DK, but in the end, if someone starts AoEing before the tank has even gotten to the mobs and pulls aggro, I really don't care.  If someone is going all out without some sort of threat reducer, if they wipe us over it or get killed, we tell them to shape up or they get benched.  Since we're doing heroics now it's pretty much a given that people need to be more in tune with what is going on and watch it.

To be totally fair Omen is worthless on multitarget fights.

There are nameplate mods that will make said nameplate super huge on any mob you don't have threat on in a AE pack.

Well sure, but that doesn't help the stupid moonkin not pull in the first place.

Totally unrelated, but your avatar is just screaming "kill me for my +2 dagger".

On topic I'm really loving levelling my old, old, old Enhance Shaman.  Login, sign-up in the random dungeon, run a few quests until the dungeon invite pops up, then run a dungeon.  I never got to see a lot of the original dungeons and it's been pretty fun.  Nice variety in dungeons and encounters and waaay better than cajoling people in /1 to run an instance.

Of course once you hit mid 60s you get bloody sick of Auchenai Crypts and in the late 60s you'll get stabby with Halls of Stone but refreshing running old school stuff right now.

Yeah, I leveled up a rogue recently (well, he's 68, but go with me here) and it was fun doing the old dungeons. Until I hit Blackrock Depths with a series of groups who REALLY REALLY wanted to do the whole thing. Sometimes I want to just kill the one boss guy I'm supposed to kill and leave, people! But on the whole it was a nice change.

I had the same problem in the late 40s/ early 50s on my resto shaman.  Too high for Mauradon to pop a lot but too low for anything but constant Sunken Temple runs.  After the 5th one in 2 days you decide to just not do it anymore until you're closer to 55.

It helps the shitty warrior sunder harder though!  :grin:

HP is the thing I really noticed on my most recent return.  As I said in another thread, I just hit 80 on my hunter.  The last I was playing was just when ICC opened and that was after a break from when Ulduar opened.  Each time, I've been shocked at tank HP inflation.  When I left the first time when Ulduar opened 30k hp was an adequately geared raid tank.  Now, 50k hp tanks are not uncommon.  I can recall when our MT warrior commented once in Vanilla how he was impressed that he finally crossed 10k hp, buffed, flasked, elixer'd, fooded, crazy Felwood buffed. 

How about 80k now?  :awesome_for_real:

On my hunter in tier2/3 gear at 60 I had fully buffed with zandalar buff, EPL tower buff, chimmy chops, and a titans flask I topped out around 7k (one survival hunter in our guild was able to hit 8k) for Loatheb.

At the end of TBC in full t6 level gear I was at something around 7000 with no real buffs.

When I quit about 2 months after WotLK came out, in a mix of 10/25 man Naxx gear I had around 15k unbuffed.

HP inflation is really, more than anything, how Blizzard makes the differences between caps felt. This is also how they make old gear obsolete - the damage output of even easy mobs is such that if you don't have the proper item level gear on, you won't have enough HP to survive more than a couple of hits. (all other defensive stats aside)

And this is exactly what is wrong with hunters today. Have you thought of hitting FD BEFORE you grab aggro? Omen is your friend.

As a vanilla and pre-BC raiding hunter, if we pulled that crap and the aggro transferred to another player we would be called out for not using our tools properly and rightly so.

FD early and often was the motto. Especially when the resist was based off the total armor value of every mob, NPC, and player character in range combined.  Good luck getting a FD to not resist on Broodlord.

Me as Hunter lead ca. BWL to several twits who constantly pulled aggro: "If FD is off CD you'd goddamn well better be using it or you're getting replaced by a mage."

Nobody hates hunters like another hunter.

7k in BC tier gear seems kinda low. My shammy(lowest health class) had ~8.5k.

Don't need to now. Misdirect onto the tank everytime it's up. Misdirect before you blow a major set of cooldowns. (My general on a boss is Misdirect, BW, Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot). I also tend to misdirect/volley on trash (not that most tanks have a problem with aggro control on trash) but I figure, why worry?

Only aggro I ever grab is either the odd adds, or if the tank goes bye-bye.

I was guessing on unbuffed health, it has been a couple years.

Fully buffed I was a little over 10k, I am fairly certain.