f13.net

Book comes out in October or so. (http://www.amazon.ca/1001-Video-Games-Must-Before/dp/0789320908)

Anyone want to start our own list so that we can snort derisively at whatever gets published?  :why_so_serious:

Eh, it's not like he's writing a "Top 1001 best games in order from worst to best" or something.

$10 says Demon's Souls isn't in there, which invalidates the whole purpose of the book. 

Not really.  Nowhere in the book's title does it claim to be the best 1001 games or the only 1001 you ever need to play.

Then how is it... what? If you MUST play it before you die, that implies it's just that good. No one says "Play this before you die, it's god awful and you'll want the 6 hours back."

I'd be surprised if there were 1000 games worth playing even if you were going to live forever, though more are always coming out of course.

My friend and I thought about pitching this book to that precise company about 3 months ago.

I then said there weren't 1,001 games worth playing (since that's the number they require).

This guy is going to do nothing but prove me right.

I too cannot wait to see how many terrible games are included just to get the list up to 1,001.

You Must play those terrible games to understand why the good games are so good. Thus, the concept stands. It doesn't say 1001 games you will enjoy.

Meh, there are games that were AMAZING 25 years ago that I don't think anyone should try and play today.

I disagree.  I think that there are some older games that would give a historical perspective to someone that really enjoys the evolutionary aspects of game design.

While true I'm not sure that, "Games you must play to understand the evolution of modern gaming" directly translates to, "Must play before you die."

It's the 1001 games that shaped video games as we know them from the very first game right up to now. All platforms, all genres. So you'll have Pong, Pacman, Asteroids, Super Mario, Mortal Kombat and GTA and more all on one list.

Someone gave me that 1001 films book and it is filled with classics, obscurities and obvious choices. Some films I'll probably try and see, some I'll never bother with.

Can't see there being 1001 of those.

1001 films is probably a stretch too, but less of one.

If you want to see some lists, I think it would be easier to define an era/platform, and work on a short list from there.

Here's my top 10 Classic Arcade games (through 85ish, let's say):

Pong
Asteroids
Ms. Pac Man
Double Dragon
Gauntlet
Contra
Ghosts and Goblins
Galaga
Black Tiger
Donkey Kong

I think this goes back to what Murgos was saying, though.  Stuff like Pong and Asteroids isn't what I'd call a "must play" title.  It's not exciting, has no graphics or story, primitive sound, the control is bleh, gameplay is incredibly simple, why would the average gamer want to play this?  Nobody is going to get excited at the prospect of playing Pong, it has no impact on anyone nowadays, unless you have a nostalgic connection with it, in which case you've already played it, which makes this list kind of pointless.

Even if you're intensely interested in the history of video games (which seems like an odd choice for a book with this title, but whatever) you're not going to be "having fun" playing it.  It's interesting, maybe, but if learning was fun, we'd still be seeing Carmen Sandiego sequels.  It's not like you need to be (or even can be, nowadays) immersed in the universe of Pong to completely understand it, if you've seen a ten second video of the thing you basically know everything about it.

I felt the Monkey Island update for Xbox was worth the money -- and it wasn't the only game among the early LucasArts offerings that is worth playing, especially if they update the graphics.

I just wish I could get a copy of Planescape: Torment for less than like 80 bucks.

You can. It and BG2 and some other things were re-released in a bargain CDDVD format in the UK and eBay quite regularly has them available for sale. A quick check right now shows a number of them up for sale - I see one place with 8 copies at a ~$16 buy it now, for example.

EDIT: Don't mean to imply they're a bundle, they're not. Sold separately, although the BG2 thing is actually the whole BG series.

There was a Forgotten Realms pack on sale in the UK which I'm pretty sure was discontinued. It had both BGs and Icewind Dales, as well as NWN and expansions. I haven't opened mine yet and haven't decided what to do with it.

I got the BG 1 and 2 w/expansions set. Thanks for the Planescape info. I'll look again -- I check every couple of months, when it crosses my mind.

Yeah there's no way there's 1001+. Hell I'm not sure there's 1000+ games you should play if you're immortal and have all the time in the world. Just not *that* many games worth the time IMO.

The 1001 movies version is similar, in that you see the film to understand where films have progressed from. Take the movie "Metropolis", for instance - very important to sci-fi films, lots of imagination, boring as hell (and I haven't even seen the full version that I believe could run in at 2+ hours). Or you see a Kurosawa film to see all the things he did first, or watch Buster Keaton's "The General" as one of the best of that type of film.

I have a long held view that video gamers have an awful sense of game history and gaming is poorer for it. A major reason for this is that the game industry changes platforms / specs / OSs so often and in parallel that it is basically like trying to learn a new language in order to understand the last generation of games (that are often slower and uglier than their modern brethren). However, without knowing this kind of history, we get the "WoW did it first!"-style categorising of games because that's where the majority of people saw it first and gaming remains mired in a Next Big Thing focus.

As for this book: I wonder how it is going to juggle every single platform that has ever come out in its consideration of those 1001 games. I'm guessing: not well.

It will be interesting to see the longevity of some of the early games to games that are coming out now.

Obviously, the majority of games from the 80's suck by today's standards. But I'd argue that Pong is still fun today. It's not really that different from Wii Tennis. Rogue and Asteroids also still stand up really well.

I wonder how many people will still play DragonAge in 25-30 years. And I bet that in 25 years, there will be more people playing NetHack than Diablo 3.

Don't know that you could even pick 101…

Here's my 11 RTS/TBS "you must play before you die"…

SimCity
Dominions 3
Civilization
NetHack (technically, not a strategy game per se)
Age of Empires
Age of Mythology
Warcraft 3
Kohan
Command and Conquer/C&C Red Alert (the original)
Majesty
Starcraft

/flameon

AoE/AoM over Total Annihilation? No Master of Magic or HoMM3? (I am always such a sucker for these sorts of discussions.)

EDIT: Or the actual best TBS ever made, Alpha Centauri?

I'd keep it to 1 "Age of..." game.

Props for Kohan. Never played the first one, but Kohan II changed how I feel about RTS.

Master of Magic was fun. :) And when the fuck is Sid going to remake Alpha Centauri? I enjoyed his remake of Pirates, and I want me some Alpha Centauri, dammit.

On the topic at hand -- I do agree that, unlike film, gaming in general has a poor sense of history. Part of it is, as noted, because hardware changes and OS changes quickly make playing older games difficult and then practically impossible, and partly because gaming is such a new medium.

I'd be hard pressed to talk the history of PC games without talking about things like Starflight, the various Sierra 'Quest' games, Wizardry and Ultima, Civilization, Sim City.....

Well, OK, add that Alpha Centauri and combine AoE/AoM. Or combine Civ/Alpha Centuari…

I could never get into Kings Quest for some reason, but I loved SpaceQuest and Quest for Glory. Especially Quest for Glory.

Key games not to forget are Solitaire and Tetris.

C64 titles of note needs to include Monty on the Run, at the very least for the music.

Quintessential Amiga games would be Shadow of the Beast 2 and Xenon 2.

Personally I'd also include the PS' Vagrant Story, but I'm not sure if it really had a wide enough reach. Crafting system was very complex though, especially since it was the weapons, not the character, that levelled up.

Rescue on Fractalus better be on there too, for the only game that ever made me literally fall out of my chair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=M8opv5u9nf0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=M8opv5u9nf0)

 :ye_gods:

Gamers have no sense of history because the industry has taught them to buy games on a hyper-compressed schedule. You buy things when they released and two weeks later get the next big new release. The fact that most companies refuse to keep their old back catalog in print (often because the hardware to run it is discontinued), though the success of Wii's Virtual Console, XBLA, Gog.com, Steam and PSN have helped mitigate that some.

I don't think I've played 1001 games in my life, and I get around...

If I add them up, I've probably played well over 1000, but even remembering just the ones I liked is hard. Or even defining them as 'must play': I hated Captive (http://www.lemonamiga.com/games/details.php?id=231) on the Amiga, but people I knew thought it was the best first person view dungeon-y crawler they'd ever played. I liked Legend (http://www.lemonamiga.com/games/details.php?id=665) (and those people calling it the first RPG on the Amiga are wrong) instead, and it still has the best spell system I've seen in a game (basically, you build your own spells out of some very simple instruction sets and end up with some very complex spells). But is Legend 'must play', or did it have a big impact on video games? Probably not.

Silent Hill 2 better be on that list.

You do realize that playing 1000 games would mean you played 33 different video games every year since 1980.

Even in a good year, including flash games, portable games, arcade games, etc, I doubt I hit 30 unique games in a year more than once or twice, if that. Maybe in the years everyone had a box full of pirated c64 games.

Maybe they're talking about games played, like "I was late for class once because I got into this 4 hour game of warcraft II."

There's a reason I said this book was a bad idea before it was announced.

I probably had years where I played 100+ different games, but most of those would be arcade games. If by "played" you mean "played at least once" I would probably be over a thousand lifetime I'd imagine. Certainly in the high hundreds.

But of course not all 1000 of those would be worth playing.

Edit: I'm counting the number of titles I've played for various systems:

NES: 97
SNES: 92

Yeah I would go over 1000 I think. I've probably played 5 times as many arcade games as NES games (at least) and I've played some games from pretty much every system from Colecovision on. Especially when you're a kid you get exposed to all sorts of stuff at friend's houses etc.

Counted 127 NES games that I've played.  When video stores started renting games I was pretty much playing something different every week.  If someone deliberately wanted to just play a large volume of games (play each game once or twice and then move on), it wouldn't be too much trouble to get MAME or an NES emulator and just blaze through a bunch of stuff.  Plus there have been a ton of compilation discs for Intellivision and Atari stuff, all the way up through more recent stuff like that Sega collection that came out a ways back. 

Obviously that wouldn't be the best way to come across 1001 must-play games, but with a small amount of research, it also wouldn't be too hard to make a list of games that a lot of people like that you haven't played yet.  Alternately, one could write a book that isn't part of a series that sets the required number at 1001 regardless of what the subject is about.

All good points and I agree 100%. However movies have been around much longer than games and more movies are produced annually.

I'm a big proponent of understanding the history of any thing you're enthusiastic about but there simply are not 1000 games worth playing. At 1000 you're venturing into "The NES version of Blades of Steel, not to be confused with the arcade version listed separately" territory.

I think it depends on how much minutia you want to get into.  If you want to show the history and evolution of games in general as well as a comprehensive evolution of each genre, I could see coming up with 1000 games fairly easily (FPS games alone would probably be a list of several dozen).    Of course it would be better broken up into separate books.  As this 1001 Video Games book is under 1000 pages though and thus can't even devote 1 full page to each game, they aren't going to be doing anything so comprehensive.

Here's the deal, I've probably played 400 games on the SNES.

I wouldn't recommend more than 10.

And therein lies the problem.

Edit: None of these books are notably comprehensive.

I think you're missing Velorath's point. If it's "games you should play because they're awesome and every gamer should know them" -- a thousand and one is WAY too many.

If it's "Here's the 1001 games that shaped today's gaming industry, and how and what is considered 'fun' and worthy of time, money and prodution" -- maybe. Still probably two or three times too many games, but not as obscenely stupid.

You want to talk about WoW (which will be on the list, for sure), and where it fits into the gaming genre and why it's the way it is -- you have to talk about EQ and UO (and EQ2 and SWG -- to show how they evolved), about the Warcraft brand and their RTS's, then talk about Wizardry, Ultima, even the Bard's Tale. (Technically, you should also talk about D&D, but tha'ts a bit far afield). Probably throw in some of the Gold BOx stuff -- Curse of the Azure Bonds, for instance.

Where CRPG started, how they changed, what became common and what was left behind, and how it jumped to online play -- and what did, and didn't work, what was and wasn't popular, and why. Then how it merged with a popular RTS franchise.

Bad games need to be included as well. All gamers need to know about ET and Night Trap, for instance.

Oh man, I remember when I was very young wanting to play Night Trap so bad because it was so controversial.  Which meant it must be the greatest game ever.  Alas, my family was poor, and the Sega CD was way beyond the means of my family to afford.  It's sort of funny to look back on those days, and remember myself thinking I'll never be rich enough to ever play something like the Sega CD.

Truth be told I kind of enjoyed Night Trap.

Heh I knew what that video was going to be before I clicked the link. That was terrifying! The SS soldiers bursting into rooms screaming in German in the original Escape From Castle Wolfenstein was another pants soiler.

I think I had a moment like that in the original Unreal. I was walking down a corridor in the crashed ship, feeling distinctly unarmed (whatever weapon I had was something weak and scavenged) when the lights started going off, and then some giant evil snarling alien jumped out of the dark.

There was a good deal of random panic and firing. I love moments like that.

I fondly remember both of these events. The Unreal more so for some reason - that really got me. I think it was because that was one of the games I got when I built a new 3D kickass gaming rig.

EDIT: I can't recall 100%, but I think I had dual Voodoo's and Unreal was the uber shiny that year.

EDIT 2: Hah! Found a list. I had a Voodoo 5! It kicked ass. I think.

I don't like monster closets, they're shitty.  I tolerate them if I need to, but even Ravenholm in HL2 pissed me off, and it was pretty cool when it wasn't pissing me off.