f13.net

I am interested in a "I hope they have a demo" level.

So it's not actually spoiler in the usual sense, e.g. telling the end of an Agatha Christie story or something?

End of Nations E3 2010 Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Fk8r8Unu8)   :thumbs_up:

When I attended the unveiling of End of Nations back in April, Petroglyph and Trion weren't keen on letting us get behind the controls of the game quite yet. That changed this past week at E3 though, as I sat down at the keyboard for a guided tour of the one of the game's many group instances at the Trion booth. End of Nations is an ambitious title to say the least. Promising to be the industry's first true MMORTS/RPG hybrid, Petroglyph has a heavy load to carry through development and to release in 2011. Keep in mind that I am absolutely terrible at RTS games. So much so that I usually avoid the genre unless I'm using cheat codes in single-player mode. I'm that bad. And here I find myself after the show calling EoN one of my top surprises, and I can't wait to see what else Petroglyph has up its sleeve.
 advertisement

The demo began with the War Room UI, basically your overview of the entire world (which is actually our world, go figure) and what's going on throughout. The UI is still a work in progress, but it's here that you'll see a running ticker of what your friends, guild members, and enemies are up to in the world. It's also where you'll access your HQ (think housing with an RTS military theme) and keep an eye on who has control of what parts of the world. It's like a blend of CNN and Facebook and even at an early stage it looks fantastic.

The game world is split up by zones that you'll access from the War Room by clicking and selecting "deploy". There are massive open zones that serve as traditional "adventure" areas you might be familiar with in a traditional MMO. These house dozens of players at a time, have quest and trading hubs, as well as public quest objectives. But for the demo we were shown around one of the games group instances (think dungeon) built for a four-player team. It was just me, myself, and I in the instance so I had the luxury of nigh invincibility but rest-assured that it will be clear from both the UI and perhaps just trial and error that the place is designed with groups in mind. Had I been in there alone and without buffs I would have died a swift death.

After choosing my load-out on the Tank Commander I was playing, I selected the instance from the War Room map and quickly loaded into the game. EoN is still in the alpha stages but everything seems to be running smoothly and at a high frame rate even with dozens of units on the screen and explosions going off all around me. It's a pretty game to be sure, with a real post-WWIII feel as there doesn't seem to be a single place untouched by the fight against the Order of Nations (the game's tyrannical NPC overlords). Houses are in ruin, parks are littered with shell casings, and massive Order of Nations structures loom over the green and charred fields of the play area.

The instance began with me safe among the bunkers of my rebel base as hoards of NPC controlled allies filed out to the ongoing fight. It's not like a normal MMORPG dungeon where you enter and it's quiet until you delve deeper into the location. You're basically entering the fight as its in full throttle with the aim to help the rebels overthrow and defeat the Order in that particular area. Anyone who's ever played an RTS will be right at home with the controls of EoN. You can click individual units, click and drag to highlight multiples, and right-clicking will tell your selected units to move to a specific area. Camera control is handles both with WASD and the arrow keys for panning, and the middle mouse button to zoom and swivel as needed.

I had a host of abilities and consumables lines up on the hotbar, as well as a secondary hotbar on the right where I could monitor and select individual units from my load-out. I was told that when it comes to load-out, different units require different amounts of points and that each zone (whether open or instanced) has a limit to how many points you can use thereby keeping higher level players in line with the lower level players for each zone. You might, for instance, be a high level player with an awesome unit that's worth 100 points, but in the lower level zones if you want to bring that unit it might be all you're allowed to bring. It's all about keeping things on a level playing field for both PvE and the PvP zones. This is EoN's way of making sure higher level players delving into lower level zones won't have an immediate advantage over the appropriately leveled players there.

I fought my way past the Order's defenses using my tanks as "tanks", my strike vehicles as swiftly moving in and out damage dealers, and my artillery from afar to take out things like turrets and short-ranged units. Eventually I made my way to the Order's massive base wall. Along the way I stopped at different control points which serve as resurrection points in case of your defeat. The enemy will try to take back these points as you move along through the level, so it makes sense to try and keep an eye on the closest control point as you move through the place so as to not have to fight your way back to where you last were. Because this is an ongoing battle, the enemies don't stay dead and new units are churned out by the enemy as you move along. Luckily it seemed that there were plenty of these control points throughout the level and maintaining control didn't seem like too much of a chore.

The walls of the Order base were guarded by large turrets, which by moving close enough to the player can hack and take control. As I turned the Order's defenses against themselves I moved my attention to the large gun in the middle of the front wall. When I say large, I mean it... the shells of the thing were as big as my tanks. And as the shells were loaded into the weapon, occasionally its shields would open, providing me an opportunity to strike and destroy the thing. After quite a bit of back and forth with the Order's ground units and some running and recharging of my own I was able to destroy the gun and bring down the wall in dramatic fashion. I wanted to go through and wipe out the remaining Order units inside, but it's here where I was stopped by the producer and told I'd have to wait a bit longer to see what's behind the walls.

The whole fight took less than fifteen minutes, I called in several airstrikes and napalm dousing, and left elated with the gameplay I'd experienced. Petroglyph is filled with people whose entire career has been made on RTS games and it shows. The real key to the game's success will be whether or not it can seamlessly blend the RTS with the MMO. The instance I played was not unlike a co-op mission from any other RTS, so I'm curious to see how the title's more open zones where dozens of players commune will play out. I'm also anxious to find out just how class progression works outside of collecting and building new units for your load-out. Still, the team has the gameplay mechanics down. If it can pull off the persistent world part, Petroglyph could easily come through on the promise of an MMORTS that MMO gamers have been longing for.

You got all of that by that trailer?  

The video linked above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hOETVX1M4

EDIT: Wow, 34 armies/players per map at least.

I'm a little worried this game is teetering on the edge of totally generic

You don’t really micromanage the units as they don’t have abilities of their own, however, your commander does, and he has a great deal of them.

GC 10: Ground Assault PvP Trailer HD (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-10-end-of/703210)

PLAYER VERSUS ENVIRONMENT: ITEMS AND LOOT

As players lead their forces through the epic campaign in End of Nations, they will assault the Order of Nations’ most vital and well-defended operations. To meet every new challenge, commanders will not only gain new powers and abilities, but will collect rewards and loot for completing missions, defeating powerful foes, and wisely managing their factories. Every item collected or manufactured brings commanders one step closer to winning the war against tyranny.

Players acquire new items as rewards for completing missions, through manufacturing at their headquarters, and from looting destroyed enemy units and structures. Rewards can include specialized ammunition, raw materials for crafting, enhanced versions of helpful items such as vehicle repair kits and consumable items that provide a brief advantage in combat, such as smoke grenades.


Bleeding-Edge Armaments

Most importantly, Commanders can stock their arsenal with new units. Each vehicle you build or earn boasts unique advantages, statistics, and special abilities. Owning a wide variety of units allows you to tailor your force to every map and mission objective. While there is no perfect army for every battle, certain units excel in particular situations. Savvy commanders will collect as many units as possible, and will never be caught unprepared.

End of Nations uses a point-based load out system, where every unit is worth a certain number of points, and every map has a limit on the points a commander can spend when deploying a force. Units of exceptional quality (like many of those that a player earns or manufactures) will be more powerful than regular units of the same point value. So a player who collects rare and impressive units will field a more effective force for the same cost as a player who does not.

A Stunning Offense

The EMP Artillery is one example of a unit with an advantage a player may need for certain situations. EMP rounds stun units within a radius of impact, useful whenever an enemy needs to be pinned down or when multiple enemy units are in a tight formation. Once the enemy is stunned, a commander can use an air strike or other area-of-effect damage to eradicate the helpless foe.

While a commander might arm normal artillery with EMP rounds, specialized EMP artillery never run out of this ammo, and can keep enemies constantly stunned. The consumables a player collects are important and useful, but only units can be reliably incorporated into sound strategies and tactics. Rare units such as EMP artillery are meant to synergize with the other units in a commander’s arsenal, and the more rare units you collect, the more you can combine their advantages to create highly specialized task-forces.


Endless Possibilities

For instance, one Artillery Commander might own an EMP Artillery unit, a Napalm Artillery, and a Super-Heavy Tank. The Napalm Artillery can cause its targeted area to burn, dealing more and more damage as enemies remain in the fire, so the player orders it to bombard a choke point. The Super-Heavy Tank’s advanced armor allows it to survive rounding up the enemy and luring them into this kill zone, where they are stunned by the EMP artillery. As the helpless enemy broils in napalm, the player uses a powerful repair kit—another mission reward—to get the Super-Heavy Tank back to full health.

This is just one of the strategies available when Commanders tackle the campaign in End of Nations. Every new unit and every powerful item presents a wealth of new options and strategic opportunities. The player who collects a wide array of specialized units will never be at a loss when devising new and satisfying ways to crush enemies and seize objectives.

teamwork with others.

The concept sounds ridiculous. How do you make a real-time strategy game into an MMO? Trion and developer Petroglyph think they have the answers.

Using traditional co-op RTS maps as a gateway into PvE for an MMORTS is a bit of genius imo.  Very nice design choice.  Realize that most coop campaigns are already somewhat RPG in nature, 'specially titles like DoW.  The persistence is already built in, so translating that into a larger global-map metagame (for PvP) is fairly nobrainerish.

Your ability to own the map for your faction after that will then be somewhat dependent on your co-op PvE skill, since gear in RTS's is ridiculously important.  My main concern is how they'll provide enough campaign material to make it worthwhile.  Is PvP the endgame? 

I'm willing to bet they'll do a model similar to BattleForge, whereas you merely scratch the surface by completing a coop PvE map (on normal difficulty); the difficulty slider is the great equalizer and offers totally different gameplay opportunities.

Shattered Galaxy is like 10 years old now.

Game Informer...yeah...

Also Shattered Galaxy was great fun.

One of the most satisfying wages of war is building your army from a basic, effective unit into a crack force of high-tech vehicles that’ll give your enemies night terrors. End of Nations offers literally hundreds of units you can build, salvage, or recruit into your ever-expanding arsenal. How you build your army will vary according to your command style.

Many units you collect will be part of a coherent set, a group sharing a theme and focus that you can deploy together for a bonus.

End of Nations also sports rare units: unusually powerful vehicles more effective than their points cost would indicate. These range in rarity from uncommon, high-performance models to prototypes that can turn the course of battle on their own. Rare units are both more powerful and visually impressive than common units of the same cost. Everyone will know just what you had to do to get these elite vehicles, even before you open fire.

So it's Battleforge mixed with diku style 'armor sets.'  Kinda neat actually, not really a lowlight imo.  And bonus' between particular unit types in a strat. game is nothing new really.
I mean, it's F2P right?  They gotta pay for it somehow and the biggest problem for these newer collectible strat. MMOs has been actually making the game WORTH collecting for.

So far, my biggest issue with game is simply the theme (for collectibility sake).  Just dont like it and most 'normal' folk certainly wont drop coin on some bland minis-style military units.  The game really needed to be based on a more sci/fantasy-based IP.  If the latter isnt possible then they should probably choose a different payment model.

I'm confused.  Rarity is the diku diceroll?
How the hell do you balance such a thing?  (assuming there's meaningful stats attached)  Kind of a nightmare.

I want to know how many players they plan to have per battle.   I really hope they plan to go with something like Shattered Galaxies system where you'd have up to 40 people in a battle and you'd control like 6~12 units (depending on their power).

Can I start the 2 player faction vs. 3 player faction argument yet?

Can I start the 2 player faction vs. 3 player faction argument yet?

Can I start the 2 player faction vs. 3 player faction argument yet?

There are three + player made.

I'm confused, the video seemed to suggest 1 big NPC faction and 2 different Player factions both hating the NPC faction (not 100% sure the player factions fight each other as well, but assume yes).  But quite possible I've got it all wrong.

There will be a player tournament at gamescon apparently.

Competitive rts doesn't end at SC2.

How can an mmorts be a competitive rts at the same time??   :headscratch:

Well, the first news that came out of a game called a mmorts was about how awesome it will be to run co-op missions against the evil AI faction. Even the first gameplay videos were only vehicles to show off the engaging player(s) vs uber enemy mob, with fortresses being boss battles. What would perk my interest in this game would be a pvp aspect, but i don't have high hopes for it. the real game to these devs is the co-op mission running aspect. Its not a bad move, SC2 is banking on the campaign only crowd to buy 3 more boxes of starcraft.

How can an mmorts be a competitive rts at the same time??   :headscratch:

Anything can be competitive. People compete over which raindrop dribbles down the window first.

What SG?

Thats not the point though.  Competitive in this context means teams or people facing off against each other on basically equal ground.  As opposed to an open PvP system/war in which the sides might not be equal at all.  Yes you can argue that both sides are still "competing" but the point is you can't really play a football game if you just say, allright whoever shows for both teams is playing, and you end up 5 v. 9. 



Also DLRiley: Shattered Galaxy http://www.sgalaxy.com/

Asymmetric competition is certainly possible. Eve is an asymmetric but highly competitive territorial conflict game.

Maybe there's some clever system for managing different size populations with handicapping of some such. You might not be able to play football 5 v 9 (although we certainly played 3 v 4 when I was a kid) but you could probably play golf if you measured team averages against each other.

Don't really understand why they are trying to push that kind of competitive format in this game.  SC2 has it all wrapped up.

Maybe because not everyone gives a flip about SC2?

Should all game studios close down and let Blizzard own all the genres?

I just mean to say that to me competitive means things like tournaments, ladders, etc.

Well good luck convincing the rest of the industry to adopt your definition while there are marketing departments telling them to put the word competitive on the box because it makes the game sell more.

Oh well, I'm just bitter this game ended up looking like such a joke, I thought it had a ton of potential.

So wait? There's no territorial conquest map like in Shattered Galaxy? It's just co-op PvE?

I'm confused, the video seemed to suggest 1 big NPC faction and 2 different Player factions both hating the NPC faction (not 100% sure the player factions fight each other as well, but assume yes).  But quite possible I've got it all wrong.

Malakili you PLAY starcraft 2, you YOURSELF know that it doesn't fill everyone cup of tea. Its the only thing available that is balanced in a market of command & conquer, supreme commander, and DoW2. it doesn't have to be on gomtv to have enjoyable pvp with even matches. The bar isn't that high.

Have we seen anything that would lead us to any opinion of it?

Does SC2 allow matches with 50 players?  No?  Then it offers something different.

It also reads like this game is more the Dawn of war/CoH style of less, smarter units, than the SC2/Supreme commander, hordes of units style RTS.

Yeah, but I prefer the DoW/CoH style. Personally.

I think some of you may be confusing or misreading competitive as "E-sport".

I'd use the terms interchangably.

MMORPG.com:
What will End of Nations be showing at gamescom? Will we finally be seeing more the fabled PvP in this MMORTS?

David Luehmann:
Gamescom is a big event for Trion, and the biggest part of our presence will revolve around the next content reveal for End of Nations. We will be showing a new PvP map variation that pits teams of 8 players against each other in an epic clash. We will also be focusing on (or revealing) the End of Nations PvP Meta-game. In these matches, the winning faction takes control over a territory after a sequence of successful battles against the opposing side. After these battles take place, the territorial control will shift to the faction that is victorious with the overarching goal of world domination against the Order of Nations. Each day at Gamescom the demo stations on the floor will be fighting for control over three different sections of Australia.

MMORPG.com:
What else might gamers get a peek at during the event? Will all of the Commander classes be playable?

David Luehmann:
We will be hosting live demos, PvP tournaments and a fan event on Saturday night so attendees will have a great opportunity to get full access to EON during Gamescom.

MMORPG.com:
How close are we to a wide-scale beta test? We're all getting just a tiny bit anxious for End of Nations to start making noise.

David Luehmann:
We're deep into the development process and the game is coming along spectacularly, but we don't have any news to share on a launch timeframe for End of Nations. You can expect to see a lot more exciting reveals in the near future!

Conquering the world just got a lot more affordable, as Trion Worlds announced that its MMORTS End of Nations will be released as a top-notch free-to-play title. This decision means that players can not only obtain a copy of the client for free, but play through the solo, co-op, and the persistent-world multiplayer conquest modes as well.

Trion's Dave Luehmann hopes this will give End of Nations a competitive advantage when it launches: "Being able to offer a premium game such as End of Nations for free sets us apart in this industry. At Trion, we strive to innovate online gaming while emphasizing the delivery of the best core gameplay experience available. Our decision to release End of Nations as a AAA free–to-play title is guided by these principles."

Trion will be offering an optional subscription package and a game store to enhance players' experience. The store will sell customization and convenience items, and Trion has clearly stated that it will not be selling "pay-to-win items" through it.

During our hands-on impressions from last year, we noted that the title was probably not best suited for a monthly subscription, so it's good to see Trion freeing the game from that business model. End of Nations will be available to players at this month's Gamescom.

I just hope the twitch ceiling is suitably low in this game and the gameplay depth is achieved through something cerebral. My mouse hand can't compete anymore.

See more of End of Nations, the upcoming massive-scale RTS, than you've ever seen before as Petroglyph co-founder Mike Legg introduces us to units like the mechish Guardian and hovering Ragnarok, including their special abilities and how players can customize their looks. Then watch Mike and company put their skills to the test on a 9v9 map (huge by RTS terms, but smallish for EoN - which can support up to 26v26), unleashing unlockable commander weapons such as missile strikes and even a massive nuke!

Then we chatted a bit about the economy in End of Nations, and while there won’t be an Auction House or a Real-Money AH either, the former isn’t off the table. The team just wanted to focus on getting the RTS part of their game right, and the whole war meta-game that stretches the entire globe. To do that, they took some focus away from stuff that was beginning to feel like tacked on MMO features. That’s not to say an AH and other MMORPG aspects won’t ever make it in, but rather that for launch they wanted the strategic and competitive side of things polished as much as possible. For example, the bases which were going to be akin to player housing, are out for launch to be put back in at a later date. Crafting is also out for launch, because again it was just feeling too tacked on. If they do crafting, they want it done right and within the context of the game. Chances are we can expect both features to make their way back into EoN once it launches.

Yah, but w/o the dollhouse at the very least, there shouldn't really even be any microtrans imo.  The only thing left to charge for is higher-powered unlocks or map content, which imba the game.  They'd be better served just charging a monthly sub.

During the past weekend's Eurogamer Expo, Trion announced that the MMORTS will be released "sometime in 2012" which is a delay from the original anticipated arrival by the end of 2011.

I guess they realized their game looks boring as fuck and they're going to use the extra time to add some fun to it.

This isn't any surprise, they totally overhauled the game starting a few months ago.   It looks a lot better since then in my opinion, better not to hose yourself from the beginning.   I wouldn't be surprised if we saw beta fire up by the end of the year though.  The only problem I see is that they might be shooting for a niche that doesn't exist.

Depends... - there are many RTS players,  you might be right though because CoH  online failed , I dont know the reasons why but given that CoH was one of the better RTS franchises out there it makes possible EoN future rather bleak.

"Trion’s next two titles will showcase the company’s operational agility and the strength of its technology platform. End of Nations™, the company’s highly anticipated massively multiplayer real-time strategy game being developed with Petroglyph Games, is scheduled to start rolling out in early 2012."

There's a "hammer deep" EoN fb subpage with a beta code embedded in the image.  I just applied it, so give it a try and maybe you'll get in.

Where what?

NVM, figured it out!

Did this just get pushed back to "closed alpha" status?

As far as I know they've only ever been in closed alpha?

So they're going for a goofy esports vibe?

Maybe you should wait until you see a Trion video before pulling out the jump to conclusions mat.

My bad then.

That's why I noticed it, because nothing I'd seen of the game before had given me the Smash TV sort of e-Sports vibe that video did. It seemed... odd, thus I noted it. I'm still not sure this game has any attraction for me. I'm terribad at RTS but I am intrigued at the idea of how they shoehorn MMO onto RTS.

If anything pvp thought me - you either become good at it  or have iron skin 10 inches thick.   Losing is bad enough, losing and being actually bad is worse as you get called  all kind of things and all sort of rated x action suggested done to you and your familiy

Have video game companies completely lost the meaning of the word "veteran"? Can I pay someone and pretend I've toured Iraq?

I can always rely on you guys to nitpick my nitpickings  :heart:

What is the chance to get into the beta if I sign up now? My Trion account's second security question is "Where did you buy your first car?" and I don't have a car.

"Well, it appears this winter break will be extended indefinitely," Stevens said. This was followed by, "Layoffs at Petroglyph. Looking like I'll be leaving Las Vegas."

News of layoffs at the company follows publisher Trion and Petroglyph indefinitely postponing the open beta phase for End of Nations, with refunds going out to those who had already made a purchase. Petroglyph said "several key areas" of End of Nations need "polish and improvement."

Fears of the massively multiplayer online real-time strategy game's outright cancellation appear to be without merit, as End of Nations community manager Lance James bluntly stated in the game's forums, "End of Nations has not been canceled!"

They still have an NDA for this game?

What I'm hearing at least is that the game is not dead, but will be completely handled by Trion now.

End of Nations® is a tactical MOBA where your success on the battlefield depends on the heroes and units you command and quick decision making in the heat of combat. Dominate during team-based matches and catapult your commander to the top of the ranks.

Apparently, this game is either dead or was sent way back to the drawing board, as it's been completely removed from any mention on Trion Worlds' website.

Anyone with a :nda: wanna comment?  :grin:

As of November 2013, following a restructuring at Trion Worlds, Inc. it appears that the development of End of Nations is in limbo. No new information nor patches have been provided to Alpha Testers since August 2013, and there have been no activity by the development team in the Alpha forums since this time. On March 2, 2014, all mentions of End of Nations was removed from Trion's website.