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Title: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: CharlieMopps on April 13, 2010, 06:04:32 PM I can't summarize it better than /. did so I'll just link to their post:
http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/04/13/2056258/DDOs-Turbine-Partners-With-Notorious-SuperRewards Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Lantyssa on April 13, 2010, 06:16:11 PM They were jealous of all the publicity Mythic was getting.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Xilren's Twin on April 13, 2010, 06:26:31 PM Some of the comments on slashdot and DDO's own forums are laugh worthy...
Quote So what you're trying to say is, Turbine chose to get double the gold reward from the quest by gaining 3 evil alignment points? Who wouldn't do that in their shoes? and Quote Having just watched Clash of the Titans last week I took the precaution of only looking at the wall through my wife's compact mirror which reflected the wall's link on my pc. By doing so I think I avoided the worst of the prefetching effects. On the whole, greed plus incompetence = clownshoes. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: NiX on April 13, 2010, 06:35:24 PM There's more lulz in the LOTRO forum.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: UnSub on April 13, 2010, 08:47:24 PM In future times we'll reminisce about the innocence of MMOguls as a concept.
The interesting story would be how this got from the "here's an idea" stage to the "let's go live and ... oh..." stage. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Hartsman on April 13, 2010, 09:42:56 PM One of the many reasons I'm thrilled about being as far away from the "Offer" and "Social Ad Network" market as possible. Replace one company name with any other, and the chances are that there's at least one person on the other end who thinks monetizing via popups and toolbar (read: spyware) installs is "brilliant!" That part of the "industry" is still too new and has too low of barriers to where it remains full of scum. It's a real shame, since legit offers (that actually do provide relevant value) actually have potential to be genuinely interesting and useful. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Ollie on April 13, 2010, 11:42:17 PM Grassroots social media is the Wild West of business practices. Things like values or ethics are yet to transition from conference room walls to day-to-day practices. As with any industry still in search of its business identity, there will be a lot of bandwagoning and a lot of poor judgement.
Part of the problem, though by no means restricted to social media, is how various talking heads are worshipped without any shred of criticism. People like Zuckenberg (Mr. Facebook) spouting naïve generalisations like that "privacy is dead" really make for a trying time for people who don't enjoy his brand of prescription drugs. Here's a snippet from the LotRO forums that nicely describes the pathology of our age: Quote I have this new boss who has no background in the Tech sector, has a degree in Business Administration and a degree in Philosophy (not that I should be the one pointing that out, working in IT myself with a Bachelor's in Anthropology and another in Classical French Alchemy). He's a perfectly nice guy, but he really doesn't have a clue when he jumps on the same bandwagon World+Dog is on. Since Facebook is trendy, he insists that I develop a Facebook presence for our business and decommission our website! Since Twitter is trendy, he insists that I maintain a Twitter feed for our business. Rather than maintain a VPN, he'd rather us use Google Docs for our sensitive Documents, never mind that this means anyone doing a Google Search can view the contents, because Google Docs is hip! Since iPhones are trendy, he insists I cancel my Contract with Sprint (and eat all the penalties) and get an iPhone on AT&T only to have him turn around a week later and decide that iPhones are so yesterday and that I need to cancel my new Contract with AT&T (again, eating all the penalty fees) and get an Android Smartphone on Verizon. Rather than perform my SystemAdmin duties, he'd rather have me developing iPad Apps (since all of our Programming Staff is too busy developing iPhone Apps) that we can sell to our Customers so they can pay to do with their iPad what they already can with a browser for free, just because the iPad is the "future" according to the trendy! Basically, dealing with my boss is a never-ending joke of being a lemming jumping off one cliff after another just because that is what everyone else is doing. People like Mr. Weathervane here are broken beyond reasonable repair, but the industry will work out its growing pains eventually. When the bubble bursts, as it did with IT ten years ago, the worst offenders will migrate to the next bandwagon. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Stabs on April 14, 2010, 01:36:59 AM I wonder if Turbine were scammed by SuperRewards. They've been so careful in setting up a F2P model that doesn't harm their existing subscriber base up till now I can't imagine they agreed to pass over personal data when any player simply browses the OfferWall. I think SuperRewards might have assured them that information would only be gathered voluntarily (and lied).
Not that that excuses Turbine, they should have robust systems in place to protect people's privacy anyway. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Ollie on April 14, 2010, 01:55:31 AM That's actually one of my regrets – that it's Turbine. They have a decade's worth of experience in providing on-line services. I would have expected some sort of ethical best-practices culture to have grown out of that.
Too bad I'm not only a LotRO lifer but also a Euro customer with limited clout to begin with (Codemasters run the servers here), so I can't vote with my wallet. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: DayDream on April 14, 2010, 02:45:03 AM I've played some DDO lately, did a free trial a while back and liked it enough to keep an eye on it. Started playing when it went f2p. Aside from some initial bumps which were mostly smoothed out, they did their MTX system well enough that I subscribed for a couple of months.
Of course, their buggy patching and customer support put an end to that, but still. I think they did a good job with creating a MTX business model. So I stopped paying and played limited content. With the ridiculous clownshoes aspect of this stuff though, I don't trust Turbine to actually keep my account info secure. The /. thread mentioned getting turbine to remove CC info from their database, does anyone know anything about that? Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Stabs on April 14, 2010, 02:53:41 AM Credit card information is always kept separate and more secure. Otherwise 19 year olds who've been at the company a month would be renting Ferraris for their weekend in Paris, coming back to get sacked on Monday.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: DayDream on April 14, 2010, 03:35:27 AM yeah, i don't care that turbine is "supposed" to keep it more secure, with all sorts of legal asspounding if they don't. I imagine you're not "supposed" to get your customers email accounts into the hands of WoW-account phishers either.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Stabs on April 14, 2010, 05:04:42 AM Card not present security standards for online transactions are:
Quote Build and Maintain a Secure Network https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/security_standards/pci_dss.shtmlRequirement 1: Install and maintain a firewall configuration to protect cardholder data Requirement 2: Do not use vendor-supplied defaults for system passwords and other security parameters Protect Cardholder Data Requirement 3: Protect stored cardholder data Requirement 4: Encrypt transmission of cardholder data across open, public networks Maintain a Vulnerability Management Program Requirement 5: Use and regularly update anti-virus software Requirement 6: Develop and maintain secure systems and applications Implement Strong Access Control Measures Requirement 7: Restrict access to cardholder data by business need-to-know Requirement 8: Assign a unique ID to each person with computer access Requirement 9: Restrict physical access to cardholder data Regularly Monitor and Test Networks Requirement 10: Track and monitor all access to network resources and cardholder data Requirement 11: Regularly test security systems and processes Maintain an Information Security Policy Requirement 12: Maintain a policy that addresses information security If you don't do these things companies like Visa will not let you accept credit card payments. So far there is no indication of credit card details leaking out. The third party is getting the DDO player's user account name (but not password) and email address. The danger seems to be spam and phishing attempts rather than credit card fraud. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: El Gallo on April 14, 2010, 05:09:32 AM Quote I have this new boss who has no background in the Tech sector, has a degree in Business Administration and a degree in Philosophy (not that I should be the one pointing that out, working in IT myself with a Bachelor's in Anthropology and another in Classical French Alchemy). He's a perfectly nice guy, but he really doesn't have a clue when he jumps on the same bandwagon World+Dog is on. Since Facebook is trendy, he insists that I develop a Facebook presence for our business and decommission our website! Since Twitter is trendy, he insists that I maintain a Twitter feed for our business. Quote has a degree in Business Administration and a degree in Philosophy (not that I should be the one pointing that out, working in IT myself with a Bachelor's in Anthropology and another in Classical French Alchemy). He's a perfectly nice guy, but he really doesn't have a clue when he jumps on the same bandwagon World+Dog is on. Quote working in IT myself with a Bachelor's in Anthropology and another in Classical French Alchemy). He's a perfectly nice guy, Quote Bachelor's in Anthropology and another in Classical French Alchemy Quote Classical French Alchemy :ye_gods: Edit: Apologies for the derail, but these are seriously the only two words I can see in the whole thread. It's like I stared into the Sun again. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Xilren's Twin on April 14, 2010, 05:16:47 AM I have this new boss who has no background in the Tech sector, has a degree in Business Administration and a degree in Philosophy (not that I should be the one pointing that out, working in IT myself with a Bachelor's in Anthropology and another in Classical French Alchemy). He's a perfectly nice guy, but he really doesn't have a clue when he jumps on the same bandwagon World+Dog is on. Since Facebook is trendy, he insists that I develop a Facebook presence for our business and decommission our website! Since Twitter is trendy, he insists that I maintain a Twitter feed for our business.... Yeah, my company has this issue too, but the clueless guy is our president and owner. Despite running a Healthcare IT business for 30 years, he really doesnt understand much about techonology, software development processes and the like. Our head of development was recently told to "get an iPad and develop an app so doctors can access our stuff stat!". Course, being a unix and windows shop with no apple development experience at all didnt deter him for some odd reason and he's already getting marketing to start up the ad campaign work.... :facepalm: Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Shatter on April 14, 2010, 05:18:16 AM This is why I play Aion, I have about a 20% chance to get my account hacked so its much more exciting!! Can I login tonight or not..ooohhhh
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 14, 2010, 05:29:51 AM Offer Wall Update – 4/13/2010 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243097)
Quote Updated: We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information! Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mosesandstick on April 14, 2010, 06:22:20 AM This is epic. They were giving away their users' email adds.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: CharlieMopps on April 14, 2010, 06:29:37 AM Offer Wall Update – 4/13/2010 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243097) Quote Updated: We’re currently investigating the reports of privacy concerns with our new Offer Wall. That feedback has been escalated to our partners for deeper investigation. Until that investigation is complete we’ve taken the Super Rewards option out of the Offer Wall. We’ll let you know when we have more information! I think it's too little too late. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 14, 2010, 06:39:28 AM This is epic. They were giving away their users' email adds. You have to opt in. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Grimwell on April 14, 2010, 06:49:19 AM This is epic. They were giving away their users' email adds. You have to opt in. I don't understand how this is a travesty. Who uses the offer wall? Yuuup. No saving those folks anyway and anyone else who's dancing around in a tutu screaming "I for one am offended!" at Turbine is pointing out that they aren't going to use the offer wall and aren't at risk to anything they are upset about. As to the fools... there was a quote about them and their money a long time ago wasn't there? Taking the wall down isn't going to save them anything either. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: CharlieMopps on April 14, 2010, 06:59:45 AM Um, no, you don't have to opt in.
All you had to do was be logged into DDOs site... which I'm sure they majority of their customers have "remember my password checked" then click on a link. Example: http://www.ddo.com/news/957-get-more-free-turbine-points-with-new-offer-wall Once you follow that like DDOs site would pass your userid and email address to whomever was making the offer. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 14, 2010, 07:03:47 AM To be fair, the opt in part could be more clear.
Wurm uses a similar option for users to gain coins, however from what we have seen most of our users give bonk data. Some, have even gotten iPods out of it. The problem we faced though, is the systems do not verify age, how could it. It was my personal major concern about the system. But we have different funding issues and considerations than turbine. Most stemming from Paypal and user regions. Mopps: Quote Q. What about my personal information? Is it safe? A. We do not share any personal information with the offer vendor other than an anonymous unique ID and an e-mail address for your receipt to be sent to. This information is not transmitted unless you participate in the offer wall system. You may be (and probably will be) asked to provide additional information to complete an offer. Turbine has no way to control what happens with that information or how it is handled. We recommend that you use your discretion when signing up for offers. As always, protecting your privacy requires vigilance. I do not believe the data is sent until you complete the offer, the stuff in the HTML string is not sent until you agree. It is there when you view the offer, but thats more of an identifier holding until submission. If I understand correctly. Reasion its done this way, is because the system does not use Turbines data on a user, there is no link to the accounting database. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mosesandstick on April 14, 2010, 07:14:18 AM One of the guys was using a HTTP tracker thingy, just going to the offer wall page automatically sent your email and username as long as you were logged in. That's epic fail. Secondly a reputable company should not be condoning services that will load your computer with spyware and other shit, whether or not it's opt-in. Maybe if you include in huge letters at the beginning *THIS WILL FUCK YOUR COMPUTER UP* then it's ok.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 14, 2010, 07:20:56 AM One of the guys was using a HTTP tracker thingy, just going to the offer wall page automatically sent your email and username as long as you were logged in. That's epic fail. Secondly a reputable company should not be condoning services that will load your computer with spyware and other shit, whether or not it's opt-in. Maybe if you include in huge letters at the beginning *THIS WILL FUCK YOUR COMPUTER UP* then it's ok. Its held in the HTTP address of the page yes, also, this is not the first company to use it. Quite a few major publishers use the same system. Simply viewing does not submit the data, completing an offer does though. He even says this in the post: Quote As long as you are using a standard browser (IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, etc), the offers do not have direct access to this information. I have to agree with Grimwell, those that would use this type of system, have most likely already done so in the past, there was no helping them anyway. They probably send e-cards too, and download random supper awesome screen savers. I mean.... : (http://www.blogcdn.com/www.massively.com/media/2010/04/ahhhhhh-rb-413.jpg) Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Reg on April 14, 2010, 07:37:59 AM Is there any issue where you don't come down on the wrong side Bloodworth? Jesus.
These guys are appalling scam artists with a well documented history and Turbine is directing their users right into their gaping maw. People using this service are reporting almost immediate WoW phishing scams to their emails. It's not a coincidence. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 14, 2010, 07:44:28 AM Is there any issue where you don't come down on the wrong side Bloodworth? Jesus. These guys are appalling scam artists with a well documented history and Turbine is directing their users right into their gaping maw. People using this service are reporting almost immediate WoW phishing scams to their emails. It's not a coincidence. Look up who also uses the system. Also, people are prone to exaggeration. I have no idea with the current successes of DDO, why they have chosen to do this, its definitely going to burn some karma points. People USING the system, key word, USING it. Those people wanted the new shoes. :why_so_serious: Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mosesandstick on April 14, 2010, 07:47:44 AM I think Turbine using this system and their customers getting sent WoW emails is delicious irony :awesome_for_real:
I actually spent the past 3 hours just reading up on super rewards, facebook and all that crap. I can't fathom who at Turbine thought this was a good idea, especially with an audience of geeks. And as Reg said, people were testing and got sent the phishing emails after doing nothing but viewing the wall. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 14, 2010, 07:52:57 AM And as Reg said, people were testing and got sent the phishing emails after doing nothing but viewing the wall. IF, that is true, then yes its complete ass and turbine should be ashamed if not directly responsible, as its goes directly against their own stance on user data across all games. If its not, its just propaganda by forum users upset by the possibility. However one forum post, does not make a "situation" or a concrete conclusion. But, Turbine, due to feedback, has already disabled the entire thing. If you don't use the system, you should not be compromised, however my personal sympathies stop right after you sign up for the offers. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mosesandstick on April 14, 2010, 08:03:03 AM The phishing emails were confirmed by two or three people at least. I think there's a pretty good reason why most people don't test whether or not their email is being given away. Turbine failed to comment on the e-mail issues, so the truth (or the corporate response) is still in the air...
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 14, 2010, 08:22:43 AM The phishing emails were confirmed by two or three people at least. I think there's a pretty good reason why most people don't test whether or not their email is being given away. Turbine failed to comment on the e-mail issues, so the truth (or the corporate response) is still in the air... There is definitely some shadyness with that. Could very well be just a really bad implementation on turbines part. EDIT: The reason they took it down was the e-mail issues, as per the notice. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Lantyssa on April 14, 2010, 08:23:24 AM Grassroots social media is the Wild West of business practices. Things like values or ethics are yet to transition from Fixed so we're not giving corporations too much credit.Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Lantyssa on April 14, 2010, 08:35:24 AM Its held in the HTTP address of the page yes, also, this is not the first company to use it. Quite a few major publishers use the same system. Simply viewing does not submit the data, completing an offer does though. It's one line of php code to take information passed along through a referral link and stuff it in a database, even if nothing is submitted. There's no reason an unscrupulous company wouldn't do that.Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 14, 2010, 08:46:09 AM Its held in the HTTP address of the page yes, also, this is not the first company to use it. Quite a few major publishers use the same system. Simply viewing does not submit the data, completing an offer does though. It's one line of php code to take information passed along through a referral link and stuff it in a database, even if nothing is submitted. There's no reason an unscrupulous company wouldn't do that.True, but I don't think you ever leave turbines site until you click the link to the offer. I wonder what user name and e-mail is sent though, because my experiences is that at turbine, user name on the forums is different then account name, this goes for passwords too, E-mail on the forums (Forums user name and pass word is used for all My.lotro/DDO sites) is also a different entry than your account. Account info is not the same as forum/My sites. Unless the user decided to use the same stuff. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: WayAbvPar on April 14, 2010, 09:15:03 AM They were jealous of all the publicity Mythic was getting. :awesome_for_real: I wish I could say I am shocked, but sadly this is about par for the course these days. Fuck the consumer as early and as often as you can. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Stormwaltz on April 14, 2010, 09:16:49 AM Quote Classical French Alchemy :ye_gods: Edit: Apologies for the derail, but these are seriously the only two words I can see in the whole thread. It's like I stared into the Sun again. Apparently that blinded you to the third word. Shit, someone had to pick that nit. I mean it was just hanging there, all nit-like. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Stabs on April 14, 2010, 09:23:40 AM Rightly or wrongly an awful lot of Turbine's players believe that simply viewing the wall transmitted their email address to SuperRewards.
A thread on the DDO forums purports to show that "By simply VIEWING THE OFFER WALL, Turbine is passing them information about you" http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2889279&postcount=2 Here's what is actually sent to get offers when you view the page: Quote Sent to www.ultimat[Link breaker inserted]epay.com (albeit over https) http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=242982GET /app/api/live/?sn=TDDO&method=StartOrderFrontEnd&display=OfferPa nel&accountname=(your_username_here)&email=(your_email_here)&userid=cmpncfdk4lttt3knpehqlt3ey&hash=752c9dea8cb ebedd14b69f5807b64941 HTTP/1.1 Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Grimwell on April 14, 2010, 09:43:59 AM The phishing emails were confirmed by two or three people at least. I think there's a pretty good reason why most people don't test whether or not their email is being given away. Turbine failed to comment on the e-mail issues, so the truth (or the corporate response) is still in the air... (bold emphasis mine)That there is sum great stasticials Jeb! :facepalm: No way at all that it could be a coincidence when it's backed by so many anecdotal validations! Would I have done this for my product: No. I still stand by my earlier statement - anyone who'd sign up for those offers... would sign up for them anyway. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Stabs on April 14, 2010, 09:56:57 AM I still stand by my earlier statement - anyone who'd sign up for those offers... would sign up for them anyway. The issue is not about signing up. It's about looking at the page to see what is offered. That, apparently, was transmitting DDO user name and email to SuperRewards, possibly without the knowledge of Turbine. I tried to look at it but I wasn't logged in on this computer and couldn't remember my password. In any event I don't see what is so terrible about a person participating in a marketing scheme if they want to. Don't you have a supermarket loyalty card? If you do, does that make you an idiot who deserves to be scammed? Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Reg on April 14, 2010, 10:20:42 AM Using a supermarket loyalty card doesn't trick me into signing up for a 10 buck a month phony subscription service on my cell phone and it doesn't install spyware on my computer. I don't care what Turbine's disclaimer says. By associating themselves with these crooks they've made the crooks look more legitimate and themselves less so. It was a very bad idea.
edit: word omissions Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Lantyssa on April 14, 2010, 10:36:08 AM Account info is not the same as forum/My sites. Unless the user decided to use the same stuff. Well there ya go.Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Jamiko on April 14, 2010, 11:59:43 AM The wall is no more. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243291)
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Stabs on April 14, 2010, 12:07:18 PM Nice save.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Reg on April 14, 2010, 12:09:13 PM It was such a mind bogglingly stupid move in the first place that I'm still left feeling less respect for them than before.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Shatter on April 14, 2010, 12:15:00 PM Cant wait to see what they come up with next!
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: tazelbain on April 14, 2010, 12:21:49 PM Become a bank and issue a credit card the earns turbine points instead of miles?
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 14, 2010, 12:28:30 PM I mostly expected this outcome.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: sam, an eggplant on April 14, 2010, 12:31:15 PM It was such a mind bogglingly stupid move in the first place No it wasn't. You're falling into the trap of thinking that only classic subscription, freemium (get the basic product for free, pay for more content) and advertiser-supported business models are legit. You're wrong.Surveys are a labor exchange; you do a survey, they get valuable demographic information, you get game credits. The offers are cross-subsidies; you sign up for a netflix account or buy a pair of shoes online, they get a new customer, you get more game credits. Same deal as referrals where you sign up a friend for game credit, and yes absolutely, credit card miles. Nothing shady about any of that. Totally legit. These are all perfectly legitimate monetization methods, Turbine just implemented them wrong. They released their users' private information and neglected to screen out many scams, and in so doing they've poisoned their userbase against these alternate forms of monetization and shot themselves right in the foot. There's a psychological obstacle all free to play games have to overcome-- it's called the "penny gap". Consumers will put up with an amazing amount of shit as long as it's totally free, but if you charge them a single penny, they'll either go elsewhere or demand quality and services that will decimate profit margins before pulling out that credit card. Thankfully, consumers are stupid too. They'll spend half an hour filling out a non-anonymous survey for a dollar credit in a videogame, thinking they're getting something for nothing. And you need that, it's essential. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Reg on April 14, 2010, 12:56:10 PM Quote These are all perfectly legitimate monetization methods, Turbine just implemented them wrong. They released their users' private information and neglected to screen out many scams, and in so doing they've poisoned their userbase against these alternate forms of monetization and shot themselves right in the foot. That's entirely true. The mind boggling stupid thing that Turbine did wasn't to try to give out points this way it was their failure to do the simplest due diligence to filter out the obvious scams. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mosesandstick on April 14, 2010, 01:18:29 PM Quote Neither PlaySpan nor Super Rewards passed the information on. It was stored in the user database only and not transmitted to any of the companies who advertised via Super Rewards. Players who visited the page did not expose any new information to PlaySpan (our in-game store provider) that they did not already have. Even though this implementation did not constitute a technical breach of our privacy policy... I'm not sure either of those statements are true. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: sam, an eggplant on April 14, 2010, 01:39:18 PM I'm not sure either of those statements are true. The latter certainly is. Try reading (http://www.turbine.com/news/58) their privacy policy. It says they won't share personally identifiable information with third parties unless the user agrees in advance except in a bunch of cases. These use cases include but are not limited to, well, pretty much everything. Also, they're free to give your personally identifiable information to third-party subcontractors/licensees without limitation and the third-party's privacy policy then applies. In other words, their privacy policy, like all such policies, is smoke and mirrors. It was created to eliminate potential liability resulting from not having a privacy policy at all.Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: koro on April 14, 2010, 01:55:42 PM I think the only really "mind-bogglingly stupid" bit was not doing the proper amount of research into their choice of partners and said partner's history.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mosesandstick on April 14, 2010, 01:56:12 PM Good spot. What does the phrase "including, without limitation" mean? That it applies to anybody they want it to?
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: sam, an eggplant on April 14, 2010, 02:48:01 PM It means they can trade your identity to the russian mafiya for ecstasy and cialis bulk packaged for resale without broaching the "agreement". The agreement has no teeth at all, that's the whole point.
Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: tmp on April 14, 2010, 04:35:41 PM I don't understand how this is a travesty. Would I have done this for my product: No. If you don't understand how this is a travesty, why not?Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Ingmar on April 14, 2010, 04:50:15 PM I don't understand how this is a travesty. Would I have done this for my product: No. If you don't understand how this is a travesty, why not?It isn't a binary question, it is possible for something to not be a travesty but also not be the right choice. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: tmp on April 14, 2010, 05:22:30 PM It isn't a binary question, it is possible for something to not be a travesty but also not be the right choice. True enough, however i'm reading "travesty" to be pretty much in green; it's rather the overall attitude which seemed to be "i don't get why people are upset, these suckers would've got scammed anyway" that made me curious if it's genuine unability to realize how the concept of enabler/accomplice might be part of the picture here, or if it's just fashionable snark...Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Grimwell on April 14, 2010, 06:02:55 PM What Ingmar said.
I wouldn't have done this, but I don't think the bowels of Hell should open up and swallow Turbine whole for it. Their intent wasn't evil, the execution drew these results though. It happens. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mosesandstick on April 15, 2010, 02:26:47 AM I don't think it was a bad idea, except that:
1. Don't send user information off to your partners 2. SUPERREWARDS. That would've taken a 10 minute google search. SERIOUSLY?! You expect a certain level of competency, especially from a company that has been online for this long. They failed bad. Nothing wrong with the idea. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Khaldun on April 15, 2010, 07:56:26 AM You get shit for having a "potentially good idea" if it's executed badly. Execution in a business or institution is everything. Almost nothing that a business might do is always and forever a bad idea no matter what. If there's one thing you ought to know if you're trying to run an online business of any kind where: a) many of your customers are reasonably savvy about 'best practices' and seamy shit in online commerce and b) it matters to you that you have a good reputation as an online vendor is that you do not under any circumstances look c) like you have anything to do with the seamy shit and you do not under any circumstances appear to be doing the ecommerce portion of your business in a cheap, shoddy or amateurish way.
I'm trying to get a professional association that I'm a member of to understand why membership has dropped steadily since they introduced a website where members can renew membership and pay for the annual conference registration fees. The major reason, I think, is that the whole thing looks like a drunken Serbian teenage hacker built it in about ten minutes--it has dead links, looping redirects, an old link to PayPal which they used to use but don't any more, and garish coloring and ugly fonts. You want to give your credit card to that? But all I get back is that they used a professional service and "this is the most-requested service that our members have said they wanted" (e.g., it's a "good idea" and well meant). Again, that means shit in this context. It's all about how you do it, not what you're doing. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: CharlieMopps on April 15, 2010, 11:26:29 AM It was a stupid idea from the start.
How long does it take a person to learn that "Click here and get free stuff" is the internet equivalent of "Follow me into this dark alley to get a neat surprise!" Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Mrbloodworth on April 15, 2010, 11:30:53 AM It was a stupid idea from the start. How long does it take a person to learn that "Click here and get free stuff" is the internet equivalent of "Follow me into this dark alley to get a neat surprise!" Quite a while, as many F2P publishing houses use it. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: LK on April 15, 2010, 02:18:40 PM But all I get back is that they used a professional service and "this is the most-requested service that our members have said they wanted" (e.g., it's a "good idea" and well meant). I can't suffer ignorance and stupidity like that. Title: Re: Turbine's new paywall crashes and burns Post by: Khaldun on April 16, 2010, 10:28:21 AM Makes me a sad panda, that's for sure. Guess why I'm not rejoining after this year, after many years of being a member? (Well, it doesn't help that some of the other members are cunts who annoy me when I'm actually *at* the meetings.)
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