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After pondering the idea for quite some time I am finally planning a trip to the US later this year (either July or September).

I have three weeks at my disposal (trip will be most likely 2 172 weeks so that I have some time to recover before going back to work) and I want to visit a few different places during that time so no New York or San Francisco for the whole time either.

I am currently evaluating some kind of itinerary for the trip but can't really decide what to visit.

So I'll start off with a few basic questions.

East cost or west cost? My first idea was to start off on the east cost (New York, Boston for example) and work my way westward during the three weeks) maybe ending up in San Francisco or San Diego at the end. Is this feasible? Should I focus on one part of the States to get the most out of it? Any interesting places to visit apart from the obvious tourist destinations?

I won't have a car because I don't own a driver's licence so are there places I should/need to avoid because lack of personal transportation is an issue?

I not only want to see the sights I want to get feeling for the country (or at least different regions) so any recommendations for that?

I will update the thread when I have a clearer idea of what I want to visit but since then recommendations and hints are always welcome

Thanks in advance

A couple of things about the US. Most of it is on one coast of the other. You can spend your time quite happily on either coast doing whatever it is you want to do but the middle bit? Not so much.

Secondly, without a car you will find your options severely limited outside of major cities unless you are willing to drop a fortune in cab fares.

For the rest of it I'll let the US residents try to sell you their particular corner.

If you want diversity in the places with a little history thrown in, I'd hit the east coast.  You've got everything from Acadia in Maine to New York City, Phili, Boston, and interesting cities along the coast all the way to Key West. 

For natural beauty, the West coast is tough to beat.  This is especially true if you have some extra time to head inland a bit to the more beautiful parts of the rocky mountains. 

As stated above, I'd avoid the middle bits unless you have friends and/or family to visit.  Also, rent a car.  The freedom is well worth the cost.

Could be tricky.

If you want to pack in as much face time with a variety of cities in the US, hit up the East Coast. Boston area (along with the Massachusetts Islands), NYC area, Philly area, Ocean City is nice, D.C. area, then possibly Virginia Beach. That's a ton of stuff in a pretty small area.

If you are into nature, then ya, West Coast. I'd suggest the Rockies and Yellowstone, but that is a tad remote if you are looking to minimize travel time to see the most sights. The further west you get from D.C., the more spread out stuff is and the more you will be filling your time in with travel, and most without anything to see but fields and rocks. West Coast is a bit more forgiving in that the drive down Route 1, while LONG, is about the prettiest road I have ever driven in terms of natural sights (from San Fran to LA for me - can't comment on the northern trip). The California stuff is much more spread than the East Coast swing so if you really want to pack as much into your trip, I'd vote East Coast and make the trip from either Boston then south or D.C. and then north.

Without a drivers license you are going to be very very limited on where you can get around pretty much big cities only. East coast is pretty easy to get around via train/cab travel but most of the central part of the country has limited areas of decent public transit.

One thing I always warn people about from overseas is the US is very big especially compared to europe. To compare it to the the UK in the time it would take you to drive from london up to the the northern tip of scottland is about the same time it takes me to visit my mom one state over. This is one main reason not having a car very much limits you as you will pretty much be stuck in downtown metro areas for the most part.

If at all possible go with somebody who does have a drivers license you will see far more interesting things if you can get out and travel around.

If thats not an option I would almost have to recommend sticking to the east coast. NY/NJ/DC what not are all pretty well interconnected with train/light rail access so if you like big cities and monuments you could see a reasonable amount in the time frame you have. West coast is prettier and nicer climate but you would be a bit more limited on how you would get around.

Despite my west coast bias, I'd say that without having a rental car at your disposal that the east coast is probably the better option.  As Nebut mentioned, the best bits out west are really the scenic parts, and you'd need to do some serious driving to get to them.

The East is good for wandering around and using public transportation.  You might have to find a tour or something if you want to visit civil war sites.  I know the Smithsonian offers quite a few packages if that's what you're interested in.


You can get bus tours anywhere and I'm sure you can get them or even shuttles to the Grand Canyon and a lot of the other National Parks and specific places from nearby cities.  A few years ago, a friend's aunt did a bus tour that took her all over the place - Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Bryce, Hoover Dam, etc.  It was something like a week long (maybe more, I don't remember) and cost a fortune but she had a great time.  It sounded exhausting to me, but she's a very energetic lady!  I'm not good at keeping to a tight schedule and stuffing too many sites into short periods of time, though.  The wide open spaces aren't so wide open that a bus won't take you there.  There are also air and river tours all over the place.  I've always wanted to go on one of those riverboat rides but haven't got around to it yet.

:oh_i_see:

Tough to answer this without knowing your preferences. Do you want to see nightlife and museums or do you like nature and folk culture?

Without a driver's license you want to get a rail pass. I've met many travelling foreigners on the train, I used to use it for long distance travel in the band era because I don't like flying. You can't hang out properly on a plane. Travel times on trains isn't bad, you can go from coast to coast in about three days, give or take. The Boston - LA train is a complete riot at certain times.

If you like nature, for your first trip I'd actually agree about the west coast even though I love the east coast. You should do something like a yosemite to monument valley to yellowstone. You could do a circuit using the rail and bus or pick one and rent some camping gear and a guide. I love the Adirondacks, so many great mountains and lakes, but it doesn't have the wow factor of those other three parks.

You won't be able to do say the Oregan coast without a car, but there are some interesting cities in the west. Vegas and San Fransisco would be the two I enjoyed the most. In the trips I've done to the east, my highlights were DC for the Smithsonian, and New Orleans.  All four cities I didn't have a car - the key being picking a hotel in the right part of the city.

I've not had a chance to visit New York, Bostson, etc, though I'd like to.

Of course if you are planning to end your trip in the West, you could always skip up to Vancouver and see a real city.  :grin:

Mid-West, no car. Enjoy your trip...

Hey, there's always hitch-hiking.  :ye_gods:

Without a car and little or no budget I would say stick with the bigger eastern cities.  Boston, Washington DC and NYC all have good subway systems.

Or, you could just go to Miami and spend all your time on South Beach, fishing trips and maybe a few days in the Keys (reachable by rail).

He has no budget?  I don't believe it.  Everyone is rich in Germany!

As people have said, no car is a challenge if you want to hit up a bunch of different places.  I have very limited experience with the East Coast, but with San Francisco as a base of operations there is a fair amount you can do that doesn't absolutely require a car.  Marin County has a lot of very nice scenery (Muir Woods is the big tourist spot but there's a lot of other natural beauty in the immediate area) and is a relatively quick bus ride away.  Tahoe is about a day away by train if you want to see some of the bigger mountains.  And San Francisco itself has a lot to do and look at and eat, much of it in a small enough area to walk.

Yeah, the car thing makes it tricky, but he might be able to pull bus tours out west.  It does depend on what his budget is like though.

For west coast, your best bet is pretty much either San Fransisco or Seattle (where, if your bored, you could also take a train ride to visit Seattle Jr. like Bunk mentioned).  Both are neat cities with decent public transit.  Every European friend thats come to visit me in San Fransisco has loved it, and there's lots of cool things to run around and see.  There is also a lot of amazing natural beauty not far off, but with no car thats going to be a problem.  Also, August/September is the best weather season to see San Fransisco (usually).

Most major east coast cities should be fine for you.  If you like historical stuff, Washington DC and Boston are very cool, and have great public transit.  New York is New York, I'm sure you wont want to miss.

But yeah, what exactly are the sorts of things you want to see during this trip?

 :drill:

God I miss living there...

What do you want to do or see?  I never have enough time on vacations, we usually head to the beach down in Florida and visit friends along the route.  If you don't have a car, go to Amtrak (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/HomePage) and figure out where you want to go, I would suggest hitting the bigger cities on a route as they have better public transportation.  I'm a beach bum, so when I get a vacation I usually head down to Florida and stay with friends.  The Keys are great, but still the lack of a car is going to hurt down in Florida.

Budget is not that much of an issue (famous last words ) although the whole trip should not cost more than $3000 (including flight) if possible, depending a bit on dollar/euro exchange rates.

I'm not that much of a nature guy so I'm more inclined to answer nightlife/museums/sights than yosemite/grand canyon etc.) although I'd very much like to get an idea of american life (if there actually is something like that) also. I don't want to be that kind of guy that has pictures of all the sights without actually getting to know the country I visit, if you know what I mean.

So I suppose the east cost would be a good place for me to be. I will most probably be travelling on my own so unfortunately I can't bring anybody with me that could drive a car.

If you're going to visit the East Coast, don't forget that most major Eastern Canadian cities are on/near the border, and are reasonable travel times away from Boston/NYC. 

Yeah, sticking with east coast is probably best for you then.  Though you can fly round trip from New York to San Francisco for about $310-$350, so it shouldn't strain your budget to bad if you want to come check out the west coast for a bit.  Though again, if you do, stick with something like San Francisco, which has good public transit.  San Diego is nice and all, but very much a car friendly city (though you can take a train straight from downtown to Tijauna  :awesome_for_real:)

Based on this:
I am going to go against the tide here and suggest that you do want to visit the Midwest. If you want to get the feel for the country you can't skip on the Midwest. It may be smaller cities and farms, but it's a very important part of American culture no matter how dull many find it.

Honestly, with a "get the feeling for the country" objective I'd suggest an itinerary like this:

• Fly to and start your vacation in New York. It's an iconic city that I intend to see someday myself.
• Hop a train down to Washington D.C. so you can look at all the historical and government buildings. Also Smithsonian. This is on my 'someday' list as well.
• Train/Plate to Chicago. It's a great city, and a hint of the Midwest even if it is a big city.
• From Chicago, get down to Nashville. It might be commercialized, but the city is fun and covers most of "the South" from a cultural exposure point.
• Next stop, Austin Texas. Great city, and a fun way to discover that Texas != "the South" even if it's southern.
• Grab a short flight to Las Vegas. It's a fun town, and cheap if you get there in the middle of the week. Don't stay long.
• For the West Coast I suggest San Diego, San Francisco, and Seattle. Take your pick, or hit as many as you can. These three cities each have their own charm and are worth the stop.

That is an effective "big city tour" of the United States that will expose you to multiple slices of our cultures and give you an idea of how varied the American Experience can be.

If you are brave, replace a big city with some small town that has an airport. In any region that will give you an even more real view of the slice of culture found there. It will also be a bit duller as you won't have as many museums, etc. and will have more vanilla shopping malls and chain restaurants. If you are insane, go to a very small town that has no airport or bus stop, but be prepared to be treated like a freak for being an outsider. :)

Reviewing my list, perhaps I should have thrown in Miami, it's a different world too.

Also, avoid things like Disney unless you want to see how we idealize ourselves in our entertainment.

Mid-West!   :ye_gods:  Too boring!  If you stay in the east, you'll find yourself at some point in Baltimore.  Inner Harbor is great.  Make sure to stop by the Baltimore Museum of Art as they have an incredibly good collection of American art.  You'll figure a lot out about America through that. 

If you have several months, perhaps. Packed into a couple of weeks vacation, this would only serve as an effective taste of American airport culture. Seriously, most rock bands don't put up with this sort of travel nightmare.

I'd pare that list down a bit, Grim.  I did a whirlwind tour of Europe after college that was somewhat similar (5 cities in under 2 weeks), and while I did get to see a lot of stuff, I did not ever feel like I "knew" any of the places I visited, and the overall experience was pretty stressful.  Doing something like that in the US would be even worse, I'd think, because travel times are longer.  And any day where you have to go through an airport is an entire day shot to hell IMO; I would avoid any itinerary that required me to take a plane while I was already on my "vacation".  (edit: also, what Righ said.)

If you've got 2 1/2 weeks and want to see a few different parts of the country with a focus on the urban areas, I'd do six days in New York, a train ride across the country, and six days in San Francisco.  If you want to see a few more different cities or towns, look at the ones along the train route, which is supposed to be a four day ride if you don't stop anywhere:

(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/03/08/travel/0308-tra-webCOVERmap.jpg)

That's one of the trains I used to take, but it kept north from Chicago to Boston.

If you want to see american culture, just hit a walmart in pretty much any city  :ye_gods:

I would recommend ending with a week+ in NYC, it takes about 3 days just to learn Manhatten enough to get around it.  

I would recommend starting in DC metro area and then using whatever good train routes are available to visit places like Baltimore and Chicago.  You really will never accomplish your American life goal though without a car.  Driving is part of our way of life and culture, period, outside of the biggest and most progressive of our cities which don't represent the "real america" experience you seem to be romanticizing.

Honestly if the whole, understanding Americans bit isn't just bullshit to you I would put off the trip until you can drive while here.  In which case a plan closer to Grimwell's would give you a real feel for whats going on in this country.  A feel that most Americans can't be bothered to get for the record.

Really though maybe you could try something like this:

Fly into Richmond, VA spend a day or 3 there then train up to DC and spend 2 days seeing some tourist and halls of government stuff in DC, from DC you can go to Baltimore though what you would do there I'm not sure might not be worth stopping in B'more though I would much rather be there than Philly (Philly sucks ass and people who say otherwise are full of shit) one of those two cities would just add diversity to your experience but again, no car makes lots of things tough.  From there next stop would be NYC which honestly you could spend all your remaining time in and still only barely be streetwise in parts of Manhattan.  If you really wanted to push for one more locale you could try going to somewhere random in CT that you can get to easily by train for a day trip then back to NYC.  Don't bother with Boston using this plan because honestly you'll just be "seeing" places without getting anything out of them.

If you look at that plan and it doesn't have enough locations you could lose a lot of time but I'm sure there is a train from Atlanta to Richmond and that would add a very southern very black american city to your list.  I have no idea if you can get anything done in Atlanta without a car and I seriously doubt it but I'm sure it would be overwhelming and interesting to try.

Of any city in California I'd say San Francisco (especially with no car), I would also recommend Sequoia/Kings Canyon national park over Yosemite but it might be further out of the way.  San Diego is fun and has decent beaches but southern California in general is probably not worth it without access to personal transportation.  If you do end up in northern California you may enjoy a wine country tour.

For the time of year you are talking about Vegas will be miserably hot, if you enjoy gambling or desperately want to see Cirque then it is probably still worth it though.  If you do not enjoy gambling then I wouldn't bother.  If you do go a side trip to the Grand Canyon would be worth it.

Austin is a fun town and if you have someone here to give you the guided tour (and like to drink) it would be a real hoot.  I would recommend a wild Saturday on the lake and maybe a jaunt down to Lockhart for a taste of how the German immigrants pretty much invented central Texas BBQ. 

This is coming from someone who was born and raised in California, lived in Vegas for 6 years and spent the last 10 years in Austin.

Other places of interest:
If you want beaches but aren't headed to Southern California then maybe a day at the beach in Florida with another few days spent on Disney/Epcot. 
I had ton of fun in New Orleans and Baton Rouge and found Louisiana people to be very fun and outgoing, I have not been since Katrina though and from what I hear New Orleans is still hurting.
I've always wanted to visit Savannah and most the people I have talked to who have been enjoyed it.
Seattle can be fun, reminds me of a cold Austin with seafood instead of beef.

I know next to nothing about the North East, except for maybe Wisconsin.  I did have a total blast in Wisconsin but I wouldn't exactly put it on the places to see before you die destination list, I spent a winter in the Dells and from what I could tell the Wisconsin dream is to turn your living room into a bar and open it up to the public.

New York obviously would be a major place of interest and having a car there would probably hinder you more than help you.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far ;)

Samwise, I really don't know if I'd recommend taking Amtrak across the country to anybody coming to visit, unless it was for a very long vacation.  As you said, its 4 days straight stuck in a train.  Sure, you get to see lots of stuff out your window, but its still 4 days of your vacation spent in a box, not doing anything.  For only a little more money, you can just take a plane and be in SF in 4 hours.  With his time constraints, if he wants to come see a bunch of the US, he'd be better off just plane hopping on cheep tickets from city to city.

Taking trains between the major cities on the east coast would definitely be the way to go though.

Avoid San Diego, or spend very little time there.

San Diego is great!  :-P

I just wouldn't recommend it because not having a car would really limit where he could go.

This.  If you hang out downtown or the occasional beach city, transportation is fine.  Anything east of downtown (which geographically is like 80% of the county) or beaches and you are SOL without a car.  Not that there is a *ton* to see in East County San Diego if you aren't into deserts or Indian Casinos...

That vague line you can draw along the top of North Carolina, Tennessee and Oklahoma?  Stay north of that.

If you can't drive, you're basically stuck with the bigger cities in America which have public transportation which is fine really. The midwest isn't as bad as people make it out to be but if you dig fresh seafood and really big-ticket entertainers or events the coasts are pretty much where you have to go outside of Chicago.

I know you said no New York or San Fran but San Fran is ridiculously foot-travel friendly, great food, great culture stuff (it's pretty unique and not terribly representative of the US as a whole though), amazing scenery. It's a mountain made of buildings plopped in a bay. I had a great time there but it's "hella" expensive and you're not getting in or out of the place without paying a bunch of tolls unless you foreigners have invented a teleportation device.

Napa Valley is overrated unless you want to get hammered sampling wine with a bunch of fat tourists. Also the rest of California is an irredeemable shithole with deceptively nice weather and scenery.

Manhattan is overrated as well and you're better off missing if you want to skip it. Don't ever go to Times Square. It sucks and is literally the worst tourist trap in the recorded history of mankind. Seriously, I'm not joking. It's terrible.

Austin I really enjoyed and would recommend seeing but not having a vehicle could be an issue there. Chicago is cool too but avoid the pier, because that's another gigantic shitty tourist trap with nothing of actual interest.

North Carolina's pretty nice as far as southern states go, but then I lived there so YMMV.


Honestly? Wal-Mart and Cracker Barrel. Hit up both of those and you're good as far as the real-US-in-a-nutshell goes. In general terms american life is pretty varied, or so I thought, and isn't something you can really get to experience in a week's vacation, and without a car you're going to be limited in how much of the US you can see. America is a country built around the assumption of autmobiles.

As far as public transport goes I was always impressed by AmTrak, and I could never figure why it got such a bad rap. Greyhound on the other hand gae me one of the most unpleasant experiences of my life as far as travel goes.

Every state in America is basically like its own country. Most Americans don't know what America is like. Entirely different attitudes, weather, scenery, food, demographics, etc. everywhere you go.

I get that in Houston alone, much less Texas.  There are some gems though.

Despite the Europeans and both 'coasters exposing their biases, none of their preferences will get you a feel for the country as it is.  You will have to visit the Midwest/ South for that.  Both coasts and their large cities are a way of getting a feeling for how the quasi-integrated, multi-cultural portions of the US feel.  That's not the US.   It's like visiting Chinatown and saying "Oh hey, this is what China is like."  The places you see people on this board bitching about?  That's the US.  Sorry.

Pare-down Grimwell's Itinerary and that'd do it.   

Or just be the European equivalent of an American in Europe hitting London, Paris and Rome then saying they "saw Europe" and only hit NY, LA and Vegas.

Well, after reading the nonsensical bias, I'll speak up for the 'middle'.

Give Denver a try. The public transport (light rail, bus, taxi or bike share) will get you to all of the major city attractions in the Denver / Boulder corridor, and it can take you to places you might not think of (Cheyenne, Pueblo).

http://www.denver.org/

Having no drivers license makes it a little bit more difficult to get out to the outdoors - especially if you want to head further south-west and hit Anazasi ruins or to Rocky Mountain Nation Park, but you can arrange tours with any of the major Hotels and Charter agencies.

Everyone goes to NY or San Fran. Try going somewhere different. You could even say you didn't get eaten by the crazed, cannibalistic, rabid 'red staters' so disdained by the rest of this thread.

:P

Most of the U.S. is sleepy little mining / mill / cattle towns.  Stick to the coasts, maybe a little of the north and south if you want to see some of the Great Plains and the mountains.  The Revolution, War of 1812, Civil War, and Indian War left a bunch of battlegrounds and historical sites, some of which are worth seeing if you have an interest in history.

About the most interesting thing culturally I've seen in the U.S. was a gas station that sold handguns.

The no-driving thing means he will be stuck in a big city, and not Atlanta.  We don't have mass transit that is helpful.  Also, it is about that time of year when the weather turns from chilly to hot-as-fuck.  I'm voting for New England of some sort, or possibly Chicago.  They have that giant reflective kidney.

I'd vote for Denver too, but I'm biased and it's in the middle of no where. You'd have to take a flight to get to another major population center.

But if you like the outdoors, can't beat getting up to Telluride or Durango or Aspen or whatever for hiking/biking/hotspring dipping.

Does jet blue still have the monthly pass?

I posted earlier that if he really cares more about seeing "real merica" then he needs to wait until he has a car.  Otherwise suggestions that are limited to coastal big cities are just the way it has to be.

If that is just the type of silly romantic bullshit that Falconeer was indulging in not too long ago then he can go to the big cities and visit a suburb somehow and go to a few shopping centers and a wall mart and see what real regular shitty America is like.  Doing it without a car will also make him appreciate just how little America cares about people without cars.

Yeg, thanks for adding the info about Atlanta, that was just a guess that it might work somehow.  I'd still say heading South to North and ending in NYC is the way to go given the constraints, I would just do what the mass transit options let you do.

From looking at Amtrak you have options, you could really wing it and try to stay in some random ass small town in somewhere like Kentucky or West Virginia, honestly though I don't think that will be as cool or fun as you imagine it.  A road trip with a group is always nice by yourself in foreign towns that aren't designed with your type of tourist in mind?  Not that great.

Anyways here are my top 3 Amtrak routes that would at least take you to NYC but would really give you some very random travel options for small towns and not that friendly to no car having tourist cities but if you want to put a premium of authenticity...

South to NYC (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer/AM_Route_C/1241245668168/1237405732511)
I like this one because you could start in Charlotte or Atlanta (despite what Yeg says) since they have airports and from there you could hop off in the town that most strikes your fancy in South Carolina or Virginia on the way to Washington DC, stay a day or three, live in a motel and wander around places that aren't built for people to wander on foot.  Could be fun, will probably be frustrating, would for sure take you to states and towns that no European has ever thought of visiting.

Cardinal (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer/AM_Route_C/1241245652448/1237405732511)
Start in Chicago, which is a cool city and has some mass transit.  Travel through Indiana and stop if you must before you reach Indy which I've never been to so no idea what its like.  The Ohio/Kentucky borderland will have "real" Americans by the truckload, Cincy is not a nice city for the most part and quite depressed economically and scary deserted downtown so very authentic but I wouldn't recommend it.  The gem of this line would be stopping somewhere in West Virginia which is like the most strange and lost to time state in the union according to my sources.  Then finally DC - Baltimore - NYC to finish up and return you to civilization.

Silver Service (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer/AM_Route_C/1237608339450/1237405732511)
This is a longer version of the first one, so the south again.  Adds Florida and South Carolina to the mix though I can't recommend either state unless you see some strange attraction at one of the stops that you think sounds cool.

If you're hitting Florida you should probably do some SCUBA diving.  Glass bottomed boats are for pussies.

Criteria listed so far:

21 days(19 travel, 2 recovery)
Likes Cities
Like Cultural Attractions
Wants Slice of Life / Americana
No Driver's License
Been to SanFran / NYC already

Alrighty!

I suggest you pick 4-5 places and stay at each for 3+ days to get a chance to soak up the scenery and take it slow, with some interesting side trips along the way.

Days 1-3: Miami Baby!
Yes sir. Warm those cold northern bones on the sand in Miami for the first few days. Go to a spa and de-stress to get in the mood for a relaxing vacation exploring the US. Stay in the South Beach area and be near the beach, shopping, nightlife, delicious food from all over the Caribbean and South America. Miami is a party town and the mix of cultures is definitely an attraction. Hot babes (or dudes) are swarming the place, whether you like to look or touch. Lots to see and do in a small area, decent public transport.
Side trips: deep sea fishing, The Bahamas, casinos, Key West

Days 4-6 : New Orleans
You've seen it on tv, now go and see for yourself. The downtown/historic areas have recovered nicely, and there's still enough wreckage and destruction to get a feeling for what happened. New Orleans is definitely a unique experience. Go see some live Jazz, eat some delicious local delicacies.
Side trips: Stay in NO

Days 7-9: Nashville
You want Americana? Well come get it. Discover the America that exists everywhere out side of the coastal metropolises. Good down town area, nightlife, music, and regional food.
Side Trips: Jack Daniels distillery! I've had several European travelers mention that they loved this place. Grand Ole Opry

Days 10-12 Chicago
Great downtown area. Easy transport. Lots of local flavor.

Days 13-15 Washington DC
Do they let foreigners tour the white house? Maybe you'll see Obama. Museums, historical and cultural exhibits like an all you can eat buffet.

Days 16-18 NYC
You can never get enough NYC. Plus, cheap easy flights back to Germany.

A lot of you seem to be ignoring his budget constraints (and his desire for a big city vacation) with your suggestions.  In order to have any sort of FUN with $3000 over a two or three week period, he is going to have to basically operate out of a single major city that has insanely good connections with a few other big city type places.  Unless he plans to sleep under an overpass and eat ramen straight out of the package.

Pick a major coastal city with great connections and/or with tons of stuff to see in that location.  Forget trying to "learn the real America"...regardless of which approach you take or whose suggestions you follow, you are only going to get a sampling.  Might as well make it a fun sampling.  If you could somehow squeeze it into your budget, take a week or so on each coast so that you can see how dramatically different they are.  You'll experience all you need to of the midwest during the five hour flight over that barren wasteland  :awesome_for_real:

So while there are a lot of ideas here, I think your budget constraints and lack of car trim the good options down immensely.  You could do the New York/Boston thing.  You could do the San Fran thing.  Even the Seattle/Vancouver thing.  Or a combination of two of those choices if you have another $400 for the extra flight involved.  That would be a kick-ass vacation.

Couldn't many of the issues be solved by simply getting a driver's license before coming over?

This country is quite different with a car, particularly if you have an adventurous spirit.  Also, if you rent a large enough car, it can double as your hotel!

Can't remember where he's coming from (Germany?), but in many European countries getting your DL is not nearly the simple matter it is in the US.  It may even cost a large chunk of that travel budget.

I know that you're correct.  It was just an option depending on location. 

There's so much to see that isn't in a city.  It would be a shame if that's all he saw.

I tend to agree, and your point still stands - if it is easy enough to do, I'd also recommend trying to get a DL first.

If he was doing a study on American culture  :ye_gods: then ya, you'd need to pencil in the midwest and the abyss between east coast and midwest as well as the south. We are talking vacation to see the highlights with certain constraints.

And hitting up the heartland in this "cultural climate," while interesting, would lead one not of American ilk to possibly never return.

I am pretty sure you could get from the ATL airport to an AmTrak station fairly easily, but I'm not 100% on that.  The Atlanta trains are great as long as you are only interested in going to the particular places the lines go, but one of those places is the airport.  Interestingly, you can ride a train from your terminal to baggage claim as well.

:oh_i_see:

You people are unbelievable.

Jeff, enjoy your trip. May it be fun and bigot free, wherever you land.

Why is this bigoted?  Hopping around the mid-west when I only have a three week vacation doesn't sound like the most fun thing to do to me, either.  Not that there aren't interesting things to see but, for the most part, the mid-west is big and generally boring.  Especially if you're young and looking for cities with a hopping night life.  Remember, he said he wasn't too interested in nature and I have a feeling that agriculture is even further down on his list.  I wouldn't suggest my area of PA either, unless he likes staring at hunky young guys who plow fields without any machines.  (sometimes with no shirts on!)   :awesome_for_real:

This. If someone was gonig to take a vacation and include the midwest, without a car, they're pretty much limited to Chicago (worth a trip on its own, really) or Minneapolis. While Chicago is awesome, especially if he does make his trip in early July with the fests that go on, and Minneapolis isn't bad, I wouldn't want to stop in the midwest with the limit of three weeks. I'll show him a picture of the farms around here and he can say he experienced it the land inbetween the major cities in the midwest. I'll even send him some damn corn and wheat.
Also, considering he said himself that he isn’t much of a nature person, the Midwest would be less then ideal for his trip with his time constraint and the distance between cities here.

Hey, hey easy folks! I didn't want my questions to start an international incident ;)

I thank you all for your help so far I now have a fairly good idea what I'm getting into and a lot of really good location recommendations from all of you. I don't want to cause any bad blood between you guys.

Thanks a lot you have all been really helpful so far don't let this get personal, it's just a vacation.

I'll probably be spending the next days to look at your reccomendations and how I can work out route.

It's almost an American pasttime to bash eachother's region of the country, seriously. I guarantee you it's all in good fun. Have fun with whatever you decide to do.

Improved referencing for F13.  :awesome_for_real:

No.  No more wars with Germany!  It always ends in tears.

A couple of exceptions to the "western U.S. touring futile without automobile"…

√ …Las Vegas. Shuttle and cab and foot (and there is a bus system, though it's not that great) is all you need…

√ …Seattle. I managed fine living without a car. Shuttle to downtown spot from airport and everything imaginable is available, including cruises to Victoria Island and other magnificent spots.

√ …San Francisco. Unlike other western metro areas, actually has good public transportation (BART).

But yeah, for scenic touring, in U.S. west, car is necessary.

In my state, would forego Grand Canyon for awe-spectacular 89A route from Prescott to Flagstaff, that winds through Oak Creek Canyon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_89A).

Signe, seriously. Reread the thread. The tone is well beyond 'regional bashing'. I found myself wondering with growing disbelief; 'so when did flyover become the new "nigger" '?

Anyway. I've all ready derailed the 'lets find someplace to send the nice European' far to much. I really hope some of the posters to this thread take a moment to really consider what they posted here though. It really is rather appalling.

But hey. Its the internets. No harm right?

pax

I'm an East Coaster, and although I'd say it would be easier to be someplace on this coast because of mass transit, I'm going to give a totally different opinion.

DON'T VISIT THE US. Seriously.

Not having a car you are just going to be wasting money on transportation everywhere and will probably spend more time traveling than seeing cool stuff. You'll be disappointed, will probably get robbed in the major cities if you look like a confused tourist (with a German accent), and probably could find better uses for the money.

Why you would want to visit here is my question?

If you absolutely must visit the US, then I'd recommend Washington DC and Philadelphia, with a train in between, because you'll get a "history" and cool buildings tour, plus both of those cities have some really good museums. New York City is you definitely getting robbed, and a tourist trap you are better off without (and I live 30 minutes from there), so you are better off not going there.

MY aunt toured round the US last year using Amtrak visiting various siblings (and a couple of cousins) dotted around the US. Generally lacked a car save for getting rides from said relatives and had a great time. She thought the trains were pretty great for getting around.

:headscratch:

Why wouldn't he want to come to the US?  Many of the cities are amazing, and people love to visit.  Friends from Paris, Tokyo, Norway, etc have all come to visit the US, and thought New York, San Fransisco, DC, etc were all absolutely amazing (there words).  Same reason we go visit Europe and Asia, its different, and different cultures are fun.

Also, your more likely to get robbed/pick pocketed in Europe, so he should have enough street smarts to do fine here.  I've never had any problem in the US with anything like that, and as long as he doesn't go walking into ghetto's (which is the same rule anywhere in the world) he'll be fine.  On the transportation thing, uh, without a car you "waste money on transportation" everwhere in Europe as well.  I'm sure he's budgeted that in.  Subways here aren't any more expensive than trains in Europe.

In short, I don't understand your rant  :awesome_for_real:

The rule for traveling anywhere as a tourist is if people are looking at you funny you've probably have left the touristy areas and should look at getting back to your hotel.

I suppose if I am to be positive about Atlanta: we have the Chicken & Waffles.

:oh_i_see:

Ok because this is possibly something to consider, at his current estimated amount to spend, he's probably going to spend quite a lot of money just getting airfare to the US let alone traveling while here. He also wasn't all too specific about what he wanted and the not driving thing then becomes huge.

Spending money for transportation is going to be alot because from each destination he's going to also need to get to a hotel (hint: pick one that has it's own bus to pick you up at airport, where hopefully they have their own tour buses etc.) Anything other than that, like cabs, trying to get to trains and or planes, and whatnot is getting way out of his price range. Going from Germany to the US also might require more just for him to leave than just costs over here. Passport whatnot, and obviously if he doesn't drive, costs to his airport to actually leave.

I also really want to know what he wants, because that is the biggest factor. Another thing to consider is really how well in advance he's planned all this, because it gets more expensive the longer he waits. My advice not to come is because he'll probably either not enjoy it, feel rushed, or find it's expensive as hell and not improve the view of America he has.

I don't see how anything I said was not on point, or valid, plus I also meant "robbed" as in touristy prices everyplace (not just masked muggers). I live close enough to NY to go there a lot and his going there just sees his money better spent Anywhere because of how expensive it is.

Fly into Norvolk, VA

Check out Virginia Beach and Naval stuff


Hop on Amtrak/plane to Richmond. Check out some civil war shit maybe. Or bypass this completely for:

Head to Washington DC - obvious stuff to see

Head to Philly or baltimore

Head to Atlantic City





This could be worst plan ever as I have only visited some of the places, but seems like a pretty good spread to me. You are getting both a North and South feel, getting some decent beach time as well as historic places like Richmond and Philly. If you have any money left by Atlantic City you can gamble it all away and fly home.

I imagine travel costs are going to fuckin' kill ya. You need to find a friend here in the states to hang out for a day and maybe drive ya one leg of the trip.

I hear Canada is nice that time of year, and it's practically in the US.

The flight to the US alone will be at least  $1000 (although I would be amazed if you find something that cheap at the height of the tourist season, I know NA to Europe is ~1400 around that time). So best case scenario is $2000 for 20 days, or $100 a day for accommodation, food, transport and fun. I don't honestly see how much of a good time you can manage with that budget, especially in the big cities that tend to be more expensive.

He probably means Euro's, so that would work out to just over $4,000.

San Francisco vacation on $100 a day: bed in a respectable hostel for $30 a night (link (http://www.sfhostels.com/fishermans-wharf/rates/)), take the bus everywhere for about $4 a day, $66 a day left over to eat out at a nice restaurant for every meal.

This is pretty much how I like to spend my vacation days, actually, minus the hostel part.  My favorite thing to do on a day off is try a new restaurant and/or wander around the city on foot.

Yeah but we're the pleasant but weird intellectually stimulating 'merica and our German friend here thinks he wants to experience some real god hates fags and babykillers 'merica on his trip.  If you do give in and do the SF route me Sam and a bunch of others have all sorts of advice and could even meet up with you and show you around if you were inclined.  As to the situation at hand..

I think we have a no driving problem.

We may have a budget problem, but euros are worth a lot so maybe not.


I felt I was promised an update!

PS.  AC is the worst fucking idea ever.  I'd much rather be lost in Atlanta w/ no car then ever return to Atlantic City that place is a total shit hole and full of people from Philly to make matters even worse.

I always thought we Germans excelled at self loathing, self hate and talking anybody who wants to visit us out of it. Hell most of us would rather live anywhere else but Germany if we could (and if anybody would let us). The most popular reality TV over here is camera teams following expatriates around who want to make it anywhere else but here.

Some of you do a great job emulating that however.  :why_so_serious:

All I meant by my off hand comment was that I wanted to experience a little more than just the standard tourist traps, get a feel for the real thing (as much as anybody can in two or three weeks)

Why? Because I'm young, because I have the money and I want to experience a little bit more of the world first hand. I want to see it with my own eyes so that I can really appreciate the painting of all the death to America signs afterwards  :why_so_serious:

On a more serious note nobody in Germany wears lederhosen, nobody owns a cuckoo clock and most people would rather gouge their eardrums out than listen to blasmusik yet millions of foreign tourists each year think that Germany is exactly like that because they only get to see the Octoberfest, some godforsaken tourist hell hole in the Black Forest or are avid South Park fans (no we aren't scatologically inclined either)

Excuse me for actually wanting to get at least a little bit familiar with the country I visit. Next time I stay in front of my TV and learn everything I know about America from the TV shows that are broadcasted here.

When I started the thread I imagined that some of you might fall over each other explaining to me why your part of America is a must see experience, I'd never imagined that you're all so keen on discouraging me of visiting at all. A pity since I even imagined meeting some of you guys in person to put a face to all of the zanyness around here.

Sorry needed to vent a little here.

Is the lack of a driver's license really such a huge issue? I only have one good eye so I am legally forbidden from operating a motor vehicle. As far as my internet mojo is capable of that would be a similar issue in the US (20/25 on the left eye, 20/400 on the right).

Right now I really like the idea of spending some time in florida to chill and soak in the sun and to stay on the east cost, Charlotte, Washington, Boston, New York or skipping any of that to get to Chicago. There are a lot of options for three weeks. Right now I'm digesting all of the info from this thread and from the internet.

Driving... bah. I have seen and driven around people with valid licenses and holy shit how they got them I will never know. Unfortunately in the US, we go by way of car. So here's what you do:

Fly into some city and grab the nearest used car dealer. Find the cheapest $400-$500 piece of shit they got, pay the man cash, drive off and pick your own route and destinations. When you are ready to go, either park it at the airport, tear up the paper tags, drop the keys on the seat and lock it up. Or find somebody willing to take it off your hands for $100. 

(while I say this in a flippant sorta way, my fraternity brother who is from and now lives in Korea did this and it was cheaper than renting a car for a week)

 :roflcopter:

SF is a must see experience.  I don't tend to much like visiting other places in the US, to be honest, because most of them kinda suck compared to here.   IMO.  If I were planning your vacation, I'd say forget all those other places, and especially fuck hopping around the country on a plane.  Just pick one awesome place as a base of operations and spend two and a half weeks soaking that place up.

I try to downplay how awesome I think SF is because nothing irritates people like someone being excessively proud of the city he had the lucky accident of being born in.  But you pried it out of me.  

Hopefully they'll be irritated at you instead.   :why_so_serious:

What the fuck is wrong with you?

My advice is if you hit Boston or Chicago, get some tickets to a (base) ballgame with the Red Sox or Cubs. Old historic stadiums, storied teams, hot dogs. Can't get much more American than that. It's a little more reserved than a soccer match, but at least in the Boston bleachers at least as much drinking.

if you can hit DC for July 4th, I'd be shocked if anyone outdoes that fireworks show. Plus you get the "Festival of American Folklife" on the mall in DC and can wander into it between doing different Smithsonian museums.

That second paragraph is an especially cool idea.  You'll have way too much fun here on the Fourth of July!

Wandering through the various museums and the like in DC really is a worthwhile experience.  But if you come here in summer, be prepared to sweat.  July isn't as bad as August though, so it'll only be 85 degrees in 80% humidity instead of 90 and 90.   :why_so_serious:

You have to realize that people on this forum are a bit more....eccentric than the norm.  :why_so_serious:

Going against what they are saying, I love traveling around the US, and think its one of the most bitch'inly awesome places to live possible.  Be it cities or country side.  But as mentioned, without a car or somebody to drive you, getting around to the country side or "nature" isn't really an option, unless you take a tour bus.  Which is to bad, because America is frankly one of the most beautiful places on the globe. 

Also, despite all the walmart jabs, cities are very much the "real" America as much as countryside.  Since, you know, most of the population lives in them.  You'll have plenty of good experiences just hanging in the cities.

Can't really say more than whats been said already.  Your plan sounds good.  Hit Florida, then maybe see if you can do a D.C., New York, Boston thing.  Then perhaps ending in Chicago.  You'd have to fly to do some of those, but could easily do trains for the New England stuff.  Or, Bus's as well.  When I went to visit my sister in Boston, she showed me the China Town Bus's.  There is a Bus line that will take you from the China town in Boston to the China town in New York (or Vica Versa).  Only $15!  http://www.fungwahbus.com/Default.aspx  There are a whole bunch of other China Town bus's that will ship you from cities across the east coast as well, so you might be able to do them all this way, for very very cheep.  Note, I can't tell you what the quality of the bus will be, only that it should get you from point A to point B cheaply.

And yeah, hitting any of the big east coasts cities during the 4th of July would be well worth it to you.  Boston also puts on an amazing display, which is choreographed to the Boston Symphony playing live by the river.

What I would also suggest to anybody here giving out recommendations:  Tell him what some of the best local food to look for is.  My favorite part about traveling is hitting all the street/cheep food and trying them out (Japan in awesome for this).  All the cities in the US have their own crazy local delicacies/junk foods.  Give him names of things to look for or great places to go (awesome pizza joints for example).  I've only visited the east coast sporadically, so I'm a noob to east coast cuisine myself.  I did like Boston Baked Beans though!

That is what we're doing, its just out here we do that by tearing down other parts of the country to make our part look better by comparison, do try to keep up.  Also its not fair of you to post that after my like 8th post in this thread (I really like the idea of people visiting the US) most of which have been quite constructive and helpful.

Seriously if you can not drive at all no matter what, despite your "meh" attitude towards nature I recommend coming to the west coast and more importantly the Bay Area.  You can Amtrak it to Portland and Seattle for variety if you want.

That said it sounds like your starting to have a good plan, for real though, Boston?  Skip that shit Chicago > Boston for baseball and just about everything else.  Boston is as unique an experience as SF is but not in a good way.  If you really want to hang with Irish people go to Ireland I hear its not that far from you.  Also it would be insanely cool to look up, check out and maybe even hang out with all the Germans in Chicago.  Back in the late 1800's they were by far and away the most massive immigrant group there and I'm sure there are some vestiges of that if you look hard enough, I don't know the city well enough to say for sure sadly.  DC for museums and fireworks would be nice but the real problem is bars/nightlife.  There are places to get blasted in every American city but it can get quite complicated doubly so without a car.  If you do come to SF that is not the case and that is the only place in America I can promise you that you can get drunk, walk to the next 10 bars, keep getting drunk and eventually walk to where you need to sleep.

Or fly.  Several airlines offer direct flights from San Francisco to Seattle or Portland for $150-250 round trip, depending on season and timing.

I believe you can get out to Yosemite with a combination of train and bus if you want to include a little bit of nature sightseeing as well.  

For a closer but still very impressive bit of nature, you could grab a bus out to Muir Woods for an afternoon.

The computer history museum in Mountain View is fun if you're into that sort of thing: http://www.computerhistory.org/

Not sure what you mean by bars being a problem in DC.  There are entire sections of town where you can bar crawl like M Street in Georgetown, Dupont Circle and Adams Morgan.

(for DC)

Stay out of Adams Morgan, unless you like obnoxious kids and way-too-fucking-crowded bars. Mostly the same with Dupont to a degree. U Street has some interesting restaurants that span a very wide spectrum of different cultures (Latin American, African, etc). Georgetown is nice, though generally a bit pricier and not as easily accessible (Buses are fine but infrequent. Closest Metro is across the bridge in Rosslyn, I think). M is fine, if I recall correctly; a few nice and decently-priced asian places there.

If you do DC, try to plan your stay and sightseeing for the middle of the week; weekend tourists just make things a mess, though to be fair, tis the season for tourists getting in the way and standing around like cattle. I've been tempted to toss some over the side of the escalators.

Oh, and don't take it personally if you get sort of hassled if you are taking pics up close of gov't buildings. Besides, most of them aren't much to look at anyways.