f13.net

It doesn't seem like there is much in the way of Dawn of War 2 discussion in general, so I figured I would start a new thread for this.

Chaos Rising is the expansion coming out next week for Dawn of War 2.  As the name suggests, its adding the Chaos faction.  I'm not a big fan of the single player, but apparently you can continue with your squads from DoW2 in the expansion if you want, or if you never completed the single player game (like me), you can start out with pre made squads.

The interesting thing about this is that even if you don't buy the expansion, there is a big patch that is coming with it that everyone gets.  This includes new maps, new units for each race (except chaos obviously), and a new game mode.  This is a really excellent choice, and I think it is aimed at allowing everyone to play on the same ladder regardless of it you have the expansion or not.   So, if you've put the game down for a while, it may be a good time to pick it back up, as so much seems to be changing that its a bit of a reset in terms of strategy and such. 

Here is a link to the patch changes:
http://community.dawnofwar2.com/blog-post/chaos-rising-update-dawn-war-ii



Video of new units:  http://community.dawnofwar2.com/blog-post/video-developer-diary-new-units

I had put the game down until a couple weeks ago and am having fun with it again, I have to admit, and am looking forward to the expansion/patch.   

This is coming out March 11, so I'll post more after I play it some.

So purchase of the expansion is specifically purchasing the single player campaign? I can completely understand why they'd do this (DoWII doesn't seem to have attracted a large following and further segmenting that would probably do more harm long term) but it means that the campaign's going to have be pretty damn good or the expansion pretty damn cheap.

Purchasing the expansion also lets you play Chaos in multiplayer. (though you can still play AGAINST chaos without it, meaning they aren't segregating their community)

Relic's recent RTSes are really awesome for what they do for the genre, and this game is no different. I wish they had the clout that some companies do, but... eh.

Today they released patch 2.1, the patch that has all the content that everyone gets.

After playing a few games I definitely like what I am seeing.  I play mainly as Eldar, so the addition of Wraithguard gives me some much needed firepower in Tier 2.   Its very powerful, but slow and squishy against melee.   

I played one match as space marines, and as someone who played them in tabletop, I loved getting the Librarian, who is a really great support unit, and formidable in melee as well.  You are limited to 1 at a time.  Same with the Orc Weirdboy, though he is ranged.

I haven't tried Tyranid yet.

The new maps are quite good.  I suspect we will see some balancing patches going forward.  Looking forward to seeing how the single player campaign and the Chaos faction play.  Expect another post tomorrow sometime.

Alright, after having a chance to play the Single player campaign a little, and some Chaos in multiplayer, I'll add a little more.


1.  Single Player -  Its basically the same as the first one in terms of missions so far, capture stuff, kill stuff, rinse and repeat.  You do get to start off with all the nice stuff right off the bat though.  Apparently as you go forward in the single player you'll have the option to corrupt (or not) your units.  I'm not very far in so I haven't had this chance yet.  Gives you options to use various Chaos upgrades, at the cost of...I dunno, sanity?


2.  Multiplayer -  Chaos is a nice addition.  They managed to make Chaos distinct from Space Marines which was something I was a little worried about.  Their starting unit gets a unique ability called Worship (toggle), which starts them worshiping, and units regen health near them fairly quickly.   They also get the ability to build shrines.  The shrines can be worshiped at, increasing the worship effect  The shrine also has an additional effect depending on which Chaos commander you are using.   The heroes are Chaos Lord (big hulking melee tank type), Plague Champion (defensive oriented, similar to Techmarine), Chaos Sorcerer (offensive caster).  They also can build The Great Unclean One in T3, which rivals the Eldar Avatar in terms of both size and potency.   Overall, Chaos is a very solid addition to the game, and while I don't think i'll give up Eldar as my main race in order to play as Chaos in ranked matches, its definitely a lot of fun for unranked matches, and I might sneak in some ranked here and there.

3. The Last Stand - Hive Tyrant and Chaos Sorcerer are now available for The Last Stand mode  Not too much to say here, but if you like Last Stand mode its gives you more options.  I played the Sorcerer some and it is powerful but squishy.

Overall, If you like the game, and worth buying the expansion in my opinion, though remember as I posted earlier if you have the game and haven't played in a while you can try out most of the new changes with just the patch, to see if you like how the game plays now.  Anyway, I'll leave this thread here unless other people post, as I suspect people aren't as interested in this game, but I said I'd post my impressions, so here it is.

So, I decided to make a couple more comments on this game given that I posted about it in the game development forums and it reminded me of a couple things.

1) This is a stand alone expansion.   It costs 29.99, access to chaos in multiplayer, and to the Chaos Rising single player campaign.  Steam has the "gold edition" on sale as well, which contains both games for 39.99, which you would get if you had neither game but wanted to play both the single player campaigns.

**EDIT: I was mistaken about this in my post and fixed now: You don't get the original races in multiplayer with just chaos rising.  Fixed to save someone from expecting it, though I don't suspect anyone was on the cusp of  buying it.

2) I actually played through the single player campaign, and it really was better than I thought it would be.  The corruption mechanic works pretty well, and results from choices you make during missions, as well as gear choices (waring corrupted gear can give you bonuses, but increases your corruption).  Corruption changes which abilities you can use, generally removing things like buffs/heals and giving things that make you more powerful.  Some gear requires certain levels of corruption or redemption to use.  Its shorter the the original DoW2 campaign, which I think is a good thing, given the addition of the corruption/redemption mechanic it gives your reasons to do or skip optional missions depending on if you want to tilt yourself a certain way, rather than just feeling like busy work.  I couldn't even make it all the way through the original campaign, but this one moved right along and I felt pretty compelled by the story to keep playing.

3) Multiplayer is still quite good.  There are some balance issues as you might expect with a new expansion in an RTS, but they are being addressed with a patch today that I think is making some good chances to balance out some overpowered and underpowered units across the board.  Also, the new maps are quite good, especially the snow ones.

Hm, hearing that it only had 16 or so single player missions is why I passed on it for now. Different strokes I guess.

I still really want to get this, the hype train over SC2 has me wanting to play a rts but SupCom2 is shit and Starcraft is a victim of its own insanely well defined metagame so if/when I can justify it I'd love to give DoW2 a shot considering how little attention this thread has gotten I guess it ought to be biff'd or something, is there a simple record function for multiplayer?

You mean for replays? Yes. 

Also, please note my edit from two posts up if you end up going for it.

The gold edition of this is 20 bucks now on Steam sale, which gets you both games.  The expansion alone is 15 right now on Steam sale.

Screwed over again for being a Euro. 27€ for the same deal here.  :why_so_serious:

Considering this at the moment.  What's the total install size ?

Something like four gigs, I think, all together.  If you already have the original, the expansion is like a four second download or something.

Kind of annoyed that this is $20, while the original DoW+expansions bundle is like $60.  Grr.

~6gig

Sounds like it's worth a purchase then.

Cool.

The original DoW bundle is on sale all the time tho. So that isn't so bad, plus it includes bunches of things, so even the 60$ isn't so hard to shallow. It's good game too.

I bit the bullet on my annoyance and got the package. I already owned DoW2, but I was looking to give the second copy as a gift.
If I would have had money already sitting in my PayPal account, I might have asked someone here if they were willing ot purchase and gift me from the States. But as it stands, I would have had to have topped up the account, which I believe wouldn't have have gone through till Monday/Tuesday, long after the deal was over.

edit: leaving out key words in sentences

$20 bucks for this is the right damn price.  Sold!

I just bought it, downloading now.  I came to the forum to post on the sale and I see this thread!

Now I will be tormenting myself as I hang out at my fiance's bestfriend's boyfriend's daughters 5th birthday party.   :oh_i_see:  And then my fiance's father's house.  And then her friends house later tonight.

Maybe tomorrow. :(

Make sure your audio drivers are up to date.  I had to go snag the newest ones to my system to play nicely with Chaos Rising. 

Anyone know a decent online resource for this game?  Steam's manual is glitching out for me, and all the sites I'm stumbling across are massively incomplete.  I can handle single player fine, but I'm completely hopeless in multiplayer.

http://dawnofwar2.wikia.com/wiki/Dawn_of_War_II_Wiki

Not sure how good it is, since I haven't started in on DOW2 yet.

I would use www.dow2.info  I'd also be happy to help anyone who needs some tips/practice in multiplayer.  Ask questions here and/or add me to your GFWL friends list, my GFWL live ID is snugglezhenya.

BTW, The Last Stand mode is fucking awesome and fun as hell.
Lost a week in that alone. This game is one of those rare gems where I feel I got my money's worth and then some. Singleplayer is great, The Last Stand multiplayer mode is great, and the Multiplayer in general is great.

Strike from the Skies!

Well, my main question would be if there's a quick summary of what the factions do in terms of gameplay.  I don't really get why one would choose Space Marines over Tyrannids or vice versa, what does each faction do that the others don't?  I'm still a bit hazy on what the specific units do (every race has like five or six different types of infantry and I have a lot of trouble trying to guess what I should be building to counter them) but at least there I can look at the in-game tooltip. I've been playing with Chaos mainly because I like the way they look, but the tooltip for every one of their leaders talks about getting different bonuses from a "shrine" which I don't think I've ever seen.

Ok, there is a ton of info you asked there.  I'll try to do a quick summary for each race in terms of play style to start with.  Also, which commanders you pick will determine how you play any given race, so there is quite a lot to take into account really.

Space Marines:

Chaos:

Eldar:

Orks:

Tyranids:


A final few general things:  Every army's global abilties that cost the red resource (name changes based on the army, but its generally just called "red" by the community) and are different based upon which commander you are using in that army, though there are generally 1-2 that are the same for the army regardless of the commander.  DO NOT forget about these!  New players often forget they have these abilities or let them fall into that "I want to save it in case I need it" category.  However, using it frequently can help you win individual battles, and eventually the match.   Each commander can change the way you choose to play a given army, so try to keep in mind your commander's strengths.  The armies do play differently, so for instance, trying to go toe to toe with the enemy as Eldarwill get you killed easiler, while the Orks want to try to be in battle very frequently to build more "red" and keep their opponents on their heels.

That was long.  Also, I play mainly Eldar.

Edited: Added spoilers to make it less wall of texty.

Awesome, thanks a million!

Really need to give people fair warning in these threads when the game requires the GFWL-herpes.

I'm getting a little annoyed.  My characters are all at 16/17th level and I have yet to get the Dreadnought or Terminator armor despite getting drops for both of those for the last 6 or so levels.

Did I miss something in a mission somewhere?

You get the Dreadnought as part of a special event. You can't miss that one. To wear Terminator armor you need the appropriate ability unlocked.

I have the abilities unlocked on everyone who needs it.  I don't have any armor to wear though and my guys are mostly lvl 17 now.  I'm going to be pretty disappointed to get the stuff and then have the game end two missions later.

Oh you said you've been getting Terminator armor drops. At and near the end there will be a series of optional missions some which of will have Terminator armor as the mission reward if for some reason you still haven't gotten some as random drops or mission rewards by then. But you still have a ways to go if you haven't gotten a Dreadnought yet.

Sorry, I meant that I was getting Terminator Armor Equipment drops, things like Storm Bolters and Terminator Power Gloves, stuff that has a requirement for use of "Terminator Armor" for 4 levels already.   Similarly I've been getting Dreadnought Drops for 7 levels now.

I guess I must have done too many optional or secondary missions and not enough of the main story-line if you could get a Dreadnought by level 10 and I'm already at 17.

Yah - I ran into the same problem.  Also ran into the problem of not realizing there was a lvl cap of 20, so didn't plan my points entirely right.  That said, I _really_ enjoyed the campaign mode.   Going to give it a day or two, and then I'll tackle the Chaos Rising campaign.

So, I'm maxed at the level cap of 20 but I do finally have a suit of terminator armor and the dread.  So, that's good.  It's probably better this way.  if I had gotten the dread at 10-12 and the termie armor right around then too I probably would have got bored with no new shiny to chase.

The terminator armor with good gear is absolutely sick, btw.

I've been playing through the campaigns again on the highest difficulty and really enjoying it.  Its not stupidly difficult like some games at that level.  But you reallý have to make use of cover and all your abilities, you get punished mercilessly if you make an error.  On normal difficulty I would just take my four highest dps bruisers and stomp everything.  Now I find myself using the scout squad a lot more and using all the abilities as much as possible.

My difficulty complaint (may have been patched) was that barring some chaos ability cheese, the last boss in Chaos Rising is some serious bullshit.

Honestly, I am not happy with their Boss design at all.

"Let just give something a LOT of hit points and cheese attacks."

I agree, while the Chaos Rising single player campaign is better than the DoW 2 vanilla campaign, i think the single player in general is extremely mediocre, and bad boss design is just one of the things that makes it that way.  Multiplayer is where this game shines, but the learning curve is a little steep.

Completely agree on the bad boss fights.  Most of them on highest difficulty is mostly run in, blow everything I have.  Retreat and heal up, the repeat.  Was only able to take a few of them in one battle by setting up well.

Ya, I never made it through the first single player campaign.  Played that arena thing a bit but lost interest quickly.

The last mission in DoW2 vanilla is actually kinda fun. Mostly because there isn't some anti theme ultra harder than normal boss unit at the end that I recall.

Chaos Rising takes everything Vanilla did wrong with bosses and turns it up to 11 on the last mission. I especially like:

The optional Avatar boss at the end of the first game was harder for me than the end boss of the expansion.

I never had issues with the Avatar. Sure, he was a retreat spamming bastard, but the expansion boss was a self healing every time you had to retreat bastard with a number of unavoidable ranged attacks.

I played the Dawn of War 2 beta but didn't like it that much....but I am looking for something to get into so I'm more willing to learn the system now then i was back than. Is this worth picking up (i just want to multiplayer)?

I think the multiplayer is really good, though admittedly at this point the learning process is pretty tough because you'll face a lot of players who have been playing a long time.  There is a good steam group called Project L2P that is actually extremely helpful to new players wanting to get into mutliplayer though, and I suggest checking them out and their DoW2 forum at www.rts-sanctuary.com (which just got rolling).   Its a pretty great game if you are willing to put in the time to get competent though.  I am biased though as this is my current RTS of choice, and I wouldn't rush off to the steam store and buy this right away on my word alone.

Not a traditional RTS fan, but I am loving DWII (I really wish the was a speed control and proper pause!).  I just finally tried multiplayer, specifically "The Last Stand" after finishing up the campaigns.  You can level up different factions and are basically put in an arena with 2 other players to fend off waves of of increasingly difficult spawns.  The matchmaking was a bit wonky as I ended up with level 15-20 people and I only started at level 1.  It is probably a matter of the # of players looking for a game.  Last Stand is definitely worth trying out.   Skill seems to be a little more important than level.

Somewhat of a derail, still 40k related.  I am falling in love with the IP, but have no clue where to start reading any of the books out there.  I usually shy away from sci-fi, but everything about 40k I have seen thus far is bad-assery at its best.  There is a tonne of 40k books out there, but any recommendations on where to start?

Horus Heresy series has been solid. 

Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts books always get good reviews.

I'd also suggest the Space Wolf books by Bill King.

I think there was also a good one about the Iron Warriors (Chaos Marines), but I've forgotten what it was called. I remember something about a siege and Khorne Berserkers.

The Eisenhorn Trilogy was decent as well.

So when we describe these books as solid and decent, we really do mean they are ok to read by an adult, right?  Not at all like the thousand of Starwars and Star Trek books which are complete and utter shit, right?

I've been somewhat interested in reading them as well, but I've been running under the assumption they are on par with those.

I've avoided reading Star Wars and Star Trek books, so it's hard to say.   These books should by no means be confused with actual books, but for light reading, they're fine.   The latest one is even a New York Times Bestselling novel, which hurts my brain.

This. Except I've read 2 SW books which were apparently a couple of the better ones.

There are several Omnibus' (Omnibi?) of the better trilogies. I have read a lot, as I am a huge fan of 40k.

The Space Wolf Omnibus (http://www.amazon.com/Space-Wolf-Omnibus-Spacewolf-Warhammer/dp/1844164578/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277740105&sr=8-11) is a very good place to start, as it introduces the reader to the 40k lore, in a way that really helps you appreciate the Empire.

After that consider The Eisenhorn Omnibus (http://www.amazon.com/Eisenhorn-Warhammer-40-000-Omnibus/dp/1844161560/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277740105&sr=8-1), this is from the point of view of an Inquisitor and a very decent read. The Ravenor Omnibus (http://www.amazon.com/Ravenor-Omnibus-Dan-Abnett/dp/1844167372/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277740223&sr=1-1) is sort of the second half of the Eisenhorn "story" from the point of view of a different inquisitor.

Also, this is a decent read, again, about Inquisitors Scourge the Heretic (http://www.amazon.com/Scourge-Heretic-Heresy-Sandy-Mitchell/dp/1844165124/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277740371&sr=8-10), this was released with the 40k RPG game.

As a word of note, stay away from the Soul Drinkers Omnibus, I couldnt make it past 100 pages.



None of these are fantastic writing, but entertaining as an adult. They wont make you want to gouge your eyes out the way reading a Drizzt book past your teens will. Well, some of them wont.

*note* I have never read any of the Gaunt's Ghosts stories, as I really have no interest in the Imperial Guard, but I have heard they have been very well received, and are some of the better 40k. I personally like Space Marines (even if space marines are not the most exciting characters always) and Inquisitors. I very much enjoy inquisitors.

I will say the first four of the Horus Heresy books are "ok to be read by an adult."  The first, Horus Rising, I would put up against any of the better space opera out there and it would not be wildly out of place.  The next three suffer somewhat from different authors going different ways with someone else's characters, but are still adequate.

In looking for another hit of the 40k, I picked up Abnett's first Gaunt omnibus The Founding.  It's okay.  The characters are all fairly thing and the action is mostly of the "this happened, then this happened, then this other thing happened" variety.  Additionally, these guardsmen are way too good and there is very little in the way of Commissar crazy.  I tried the Eisenhorn omnibus and could not get more than 60 pages into it.  There was none of the 40k goodness I was looking for.  I may be too much of a Space Marine fangirl to enjoy the non-marine materials.

Back on the topic of this game, I think I finally burnt out on multiplayer.  I just totally hit the wall.  When I play a game competitively, there inevitably comes a time when the time it takes me to improve past the point I am at becomes utterly soul crushing and today I finally hit that point where the prospect.  Unfortunately with the RTS genre that wall almost always has to do with the fact that my keyboard and mouse skills/fundamentals for this genre are basically non existent and there is only such a high level you can reach before a penchant for misclicks and hitting the wrong hotkey basically stops you in your tracks.

I still recommend the game though, and I even think the multiplayer is pretty good, its more myself I'm frustrated with than the game, and if anyone wants an RTS that ISN'T starcraft, this is probably the one.

I had all of Dawn of War and really liked the mix of vehicles and infantry.  I'm still perplexed on the smaller squad thing, as I would make a massive army of IG or Orks (combined arms rocked) and had a blast with the different strategies for them.  Looks okay, but still not sure to give it a try yet.

I’ve been playing this for the last few weeks and it’s a really solid game.  I especially like Last Stand mode, it definitely reminds me of the hero maps from WC3, which were always some of my favorites.   Levels 19 & 20 in LS are just so challenging, you really need a good team to beat 19 and I don’t even know how to go about starting level 20.  My one real complaint is that the hot keys based off skill name are just really bad and the fact that you can’t change them is even worse. 

I’ve played a few games of multiplayer but there are just so many units, heroes and upgrades that it’s fairly intimidating to get into.  I think I would enjoy it if I spent the time though.

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=590783

Couple of questions about DoW2 in general:

Is the SP campaign IG only?
Is there a skirmish mode, i.e mulitplayer with AI opponents?
Is it a base-building type RTS or is it just unit/squad tactics?

Imperial Guard isn't in the game (except as cannon fodder NPCs in a few levels); SP campaign is Space Marines.
There is multiplayer with AI opponents for most gametypes, not for Last Stand, though, I think.
There is almost no base building in this game.  The SP campaign is you running your five units around each map to clear it out.  MP games you don't generally build much, some characters can put up turrets, and you have to upgrade some structures that you capture, but it's almost all unit tactics.  You do have to capture points, but that's about it.

Thanks Kail. I meant space marines, not IG :p

Think I'll wait til this one is cheaper than it is now. I do like me some base-building RTS, but I also loved the original DoW, but only playing the Space Marines in SP would annoy me I think.