f13.net

With I understand no announcement, the first buff to running ICC has come in (http://www.wow.com/2010/03/02/icecrown-citadel-raid-buffs-live/).  If you choose to, you can get a 5% increase to health, dps and healing, for a lockout of ICC.

Interestingly enough, it looks like there is no achievement or feat of strength for 'I killed Arthas uphill, in the snow, with my bare hands'.  So of course the forums are the usual casual vs. elitist arguments - personally I'm a bit torn.  I would have liked to have killed him pre-nerf, if for e-peen if nothing else.  Now there seems to be no reason to stick with the 'hard' way of doing it.

It also seems a touch premature - if I'm reading wowprogress correctly (thats a big IF) under 10% of all guilds have killed the Lich King on either 10 or 25 man.  How long has he even been killable?  A month or so?  Seems early to be rolling out the nerfs...

You say "under 10%" like that is an incredibly low number, but IIRC that's much higher than the amount of guilds that cleared Naxx pre-BC. And anyway, if you want to do it the hard way, go ahead. Those of us who just want to see the whole zone can now also do so. If you wanted to kill him without the buff, you should have done so by now.

I am in a guild that did anub hardmode before icc came out and is currently doing icc10man hardmodes but arthas 25 is a brick fucking wall, the jump in difficulty is such that if there was no buff, many guilds just beyond the bleeding edge would be destroyed. icc would turn into the dungeon where people just said "fuck it" and never finished a la sunwell.

The tables have turned in this new WoW.

We casuals now polish our armor with the tears of the hardcore.

Totally get why they have it so early for normal modes but why would they give this buff for the hardmode stuff?  Sorta defeats the purpose. 

Some of the hardmode bosses haven't even been killed yet right?  Dumb.

It's not available on Heroic from what I've read.  Can't verify that though.

%5 buff in hardmode ain't shit, trust me on that. even with a buff if you dont bring good people you'll wipe, a lot.

According to the progress websites the number of raid guilds killing Arthas on 25 man is around 2%. Admittedly he hasn't been available for that long...

There were only 5 guilds on my server who had killed BQL prior to this buff. That's ridiculously low for us, since we'd been in the top 10 servers for the last 5 years.  Only two have downed Sindragosa and only one has killed Arthas himself.   (Wow has my server fallen over the year, looking at wowprogress.  I blame the server x-fer to senjen, who I see has taken Alleria's place in the top ranks.)

Yeah, shit was tuned so that only Heroic-geared players could get through it. This is more reasonable.

My guild has been stuck on Putricide for a while now in 25-m and stuck on the Blood Princes or Valithria on my 10-m group for even longer (we 1-shot every boss up to that point).  Even with the buffs, our 25-m still managed to only get Putricide down to 48% before 4 people got blown up and wiped us.  Despite the buffs, it's still going to be a challenging set of encounters, and I don't foresee this suddenly opening the doors to those guilds who struggle with Marrowgar all night to finally get the Lich King down.

I remember the word going around when Premonition downed Arthas first on Sen'Jin.  Looks like 2 more guilds have gotten past him since then, one of them having a member shakeup in the process.  Surprised RWO isn't further along, they were THE uber-guild in BC days.

Once this thing cranks up to 30% health/damage/healing it pretty much cuts out any gearing issue and the fights become pure execution. This does not mean they will be trivial the execution on the deeper fights is already the majority of the difficulty of the fights but at least the buff will give at least a little room for error for those who otherwise would have no chance at all.

Yeah, if you're a cluster of people who can't execute a fight and don't want to research or do addons, no amount of damage and/or healing buffs will help you out.  Even old raid content like BWL still wipes groups made of people who think they can just go in and power through like it was a heroic.

However, it does turn it into a pure execution fight at some point, and the smaller buffs make up for some of the inequities of the RNG system.  For example, we keep getting plate dps gear in 25s.  All our other chars (Particularly healers) are way behind on trinks/ rings, belts, cloaks & weapons and the 5% buff let us down BQL last night and we finally hit P3 on Putricide as well, expecting we'll down him tonight or tomorrow.   I don't expect we'll be able to get past the dragon for a bit, since our best attempts have only gotten her to 75 or 80%.

I'm in a 10m "casual" guild and the only guilds that have killed 10m Arthas so far on our server are 25m raiding guilds that outgear the encounter with totc25h and icc25 gear. We've been wiping for 3 resets and have seen phase 3 once. Looking at the heroic encounters that are to come (saurfang, putri, deathwhisper), I don't think there's a way to kill those in straight 10m gear.

DPS solves all problems. As much as I hate to admit it.

We're finally trying ICC this week. It will either go horribly and finally show our slackers than no, we can't give you a piggyback ride through this one or it will go fine and there will be piggyback rides after all. That seems to be how my guild rolls. :P

It'll go fine the first week because we will get enough of the non-slackers to go all at the same time. Then we'll go "well this isn't so bad!". The next week will be horrible wipe fest as we won't have the 'good' raid anymore.

You say we like you'll signup. :(

We have insane 10m dps, as we tend to roll with two rogues; Me (spriest) and the lock are the bottom feeders at around 7k (fester), but it still isn't enough to burn through Arthas. We're going to try with 2 healers this reset, hope that's enough.

It's not available on Heroic.
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You bumped a five month old thread to make a one-sentence post that wasn't even a direct reply to anything. Ban please.

Which also happens to be not true :)

LOL Wow what the hell. Let's necromance threads with false, one-sentence posts. Our first post, nonetheless. Brilliant.

Careful about tossing stones there, buddy.

Huh?

I get to go to ICC for my first time Saturday. :) My new guild has a Saturday run there. They've very up front that going there, they mean "dying horribly but each time we go a little further before the crushing defeat". :)

10 or 25 man? If it's 10 man, the place is pretty much a joke up to about Putricide. If 25, yeah that would be  :ye_gods: for a while.

I...don't know. I think it's 25-man. I've been considering looking for 10-man trips, but I don't consider my gear quite there yet. My DPS is solid for being new to heroics, but I've got some gear gaps (boots, both trinkets) that need to be filled, and my stamina could use a bit more of a boost. I keep going down on trash in heroic HoR, but admittedly only when the other idiots don't know what they're doing.

Had five fucking wipes there last night. Three on trash -- all from idiots who couldn't be arsed to let the tank grab aggro, or bother to crowd control -- and two from, back to fucking back, idiots who ran to far and got on the wrong side of the first ice-wall. I didn't even realize you could DO that. Admittedly, it was "idiots" on the first try, then "replacement idiot" on the second.

My DPS is running around 2700 or so, depending on the instance and buffs, in the heroics.  I'd prefer to upgrade my weapon, but that hPoS xbow refuses to drop.

But the guild needs warm bodies, and they need competent DPS, and from the looks of it I'm actually on the "better than average" side. Thank god it's not a serious raiding guild. They don't really care about wipes. :)

We may actually finish ICC-10 before Cataclysm hits, which would be a first for us in terms of progression - actually finishing the last raid (we'll leave out that we never did the last 3 bosses in Ulduar). Working on Sindragosa now and our problems there are pretty much just execution. Hooray for 30% buffs and easier raiding.

Our top 10 man group has been to LK, but no kill yet.  We got close a number of times then stopped.  That was weeks ago and I don't think we've even gone back.  I'm just not that interested in it anymore.  We got to him down well enough that I know we can do it.  We don't really NEED the gear and I've seen the final clip on the conclusion of the "story."  We'll probably do it at some point in the next few weeks.

My group couldn't hack it on the LK in 10. Our people just couldn't stop killing themselves and others in the expanding ground shit. That and we were all so mind-fucked by the time we got to the LK, we had literally stopped caring. The dude didn't even drop anything we would have used if we happened to kill him, but it was still too much for us to really make a serious effect beyond 2 hours a week.

That's why I really don't like raids that have long long long sets of bosses. In the beginning you farm them, and by the time you get to a point where you want to complete it, you've most likely lost interest in that tier. Please, nothing more than 6 in a raid thanks.

Yeah I am looking forward to the shorter raids in Cataclysm for sure. The extending lockouts thing is fine, but it costs us frost badges to extend to work on the last 2 bosses, that we could spend on stuff to use against those bosses etc.

Last three in Uld?  Do you mean Vezax, Yogg Saron, and that other guy?  Algalon?  Are are you talking about one of the Keepers as well?

Vezax, Yogg Saron, and Algalon are all fights that require a lot of coordination and people who can avoid new and interesting kinds of fire.

Yeah I think that a raid has about 3-4 months max of running before it gets completely stale. In that period of time if you are facing 5-6 bosses, you can work on them progressively without losing out.

Wasn't even counting Algalon, we never did Mimiron.

You should probably get your dps a bit higher for ICC. It's easier to be low and unnoticed in 25, but if you have pug members they'll probably scream at you for sub-5k dps (which is likely to be below the tank).

Our first LK10 kill 2 weeks of extensions to get; once we got Sindra (and attempted LK that week) I extended the lockout on my main, who didn't need ICC10 gear. We then went back for an hour or two of LK attempts early in the week; when didn't down him, I grabbed an alt and we did a fresh run with the other 9 people. The next week we one shot him.  :awesome_for_real: The problem we had is that my guild didn't have 10 really good people, nor a particularly diverse class selection, so every week we were pugging 1-3 people, who generally didn't know the fight. The random we took the week we got the kill was just less retarded than usual.

Since then I took one more guild group to kill him on 10m (which took another 3 days worth of wiping), and I've done him once in 25m in a GDKP PUG. It's really a shame his loot is only a half-tier upgrade; if 10m LK dropped 264s at least people might find a sidegrade; as it stands most people had 264s from the first few bosses of 25m already.

My DPS is all over the place depending on the fight, although I've been meaning to reorganize my bars now that I've settled into the Hunter rotation. It's never lower than 2500 unless I'm with such an overgeared group that I'm stuck in Viper all the time just to regen mana, because the tank and healers never need to stop . I haven't pushed much past 3k though. That's just going by raw recount, and I'm not 100% that I have it set to do my pet damage.

*shrug*. I match their gear requirements for whatever the hell they do on Saturdays, and judging by their performance in instances I'm at least as skilled and geared as their average member, so I'm not terribly worreid. I plan to sign up, and if I need to go back and gear up, I'll go back and gear up. Since they seem to be brand new to ICC anyways, and a casual guild, I'm not too worried.

With raid and zone buffs you should be in the 4ks in ICC which is plenty for the first 6 bosses or so, and you'll be getting frost badges and drops to catch you up much quicker. It shouldn't really be a problem unless *everyone* is in your boat, which seems unlikely at this stage.

What about Ruby Sanctum?  :why_so_serious:

If you finally get Sind down you're more than ready for Ruby Sanctum.  Hell, if you can juggle princes easily you can do RS.   Sind was a bitch and a half.  Took our guild 6 weeks of trying for days and days. (Several being nothing but 2-3 days of Sind wipes for 3 hours).  We got Ruby Sanctum on the first night. Too damn easy comparatively.

Hell, it's 10-man ICC. I'm not even sure they're stuck on anything. I know some of them participate in a 25-man, but apparently it's not a 'guild' run. More "a regular 25 man some of our people participate in".

So tomorrow night, 10-man ICC for me.

Ruby sanctum is fairly easy on 10 man, and 25 man, the trash is usually harder then the bosses if people dont know how to do the enrage packs.

Ruby Sanctum heroic however, is a WHOLE other ball of wax.  It is rediculous how the difficulty curve in that shit ramps up on heroic mode.

My guild still hasn't done Ruby Sanctum 10 on normal, and we're at 9/12 in heroic ICC 10.  We always have major issues with one shot kill mechanics and avoiding aoe in general.  On fights like normal Sindragosa and Lich King there is nothing that can instantly kill you so we just bring in a third healer and sort of muscle our way through it.  One shot kill mechanics are no dice however, and every time the laser goes off in phase 2 RS, we lose about 1-2 people on average which means we can't make the enrage timer as we're down half the raid for the final phase.

We've temporarily hit a wall in our progression where Putricide and Sindragosa on heroic are a huge step up from the other hard modes in ICC.  It's all stuff we could overcome with practice but people seem to be losing interest and getting new expansion syndrome.

No one shot kill on sind? Yes there is.. fuck up positioning bad enough and she eats you. Stand in the wrong spot and she cleaves you.  On Arthas there's the outer ring cycles.  Don't make it there in time and you're oneshot.  There's also the exploding snowballs that the ranged dps have to clean up during that cycle.  Let one through and people are going over the side. You can argue those are "just positioning mechanics" but they have an aoe component to them, just like the laser.  The laser is just a positioning mechanic that moves, don't think of it as an AOE. 

The way we did it was to stand the tank on one side,(As much as possible) and the rest of the group is on the opposite side.  The group learns to move when the mob does and the tank is the one watching for the mirrors, which it's doing anyway.  Oh, the group also moves forwards in the same direction as the laser as the tank moves backwards so it's 'chasing' the tank, he's not following it.   So if your group is on the right side, you're moving clockwise and on the left you're going counter.   We found the hardest part to be balancing the DPS just right.

This sounds almost exactly like my guild. We were 8/12 H ICC10 but lost at least 2 dps to the first laser every time we tried RS. Since the loot there was shitty in 10m we didn't bother trying a whole lot.

We got to....that guy past the airship, with the blood beasts. Turns out the whole guild is pretty new to it (except the main tank, who is well geared and had done it many times with another guild). And since we're a small guild, it was pretty much "whomever signed up".

Which meant we went in with 5 Death Knights, two druids, a warlock...and me, the Hunter.

As you can imagine, two tree-form Druids, the warlock and me were not exactly...ideal...for killing blood beasts quickly.  On the bright side, I got a shiny new trinket and pair of shoulders. Only hunter in the group. :) Heck, only mail wearer there.

Gratz on your loot, sorry the run didn't go so well. Not much you can do with comp like that.