Title: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 02, 2010, 12:13:35 PM I thought I'd post this as a public service. Being that most gamers consume above average amounts of soda, I thought I'd pass along some information I saw this morning while getting caught up on my journal reading. The finding is reported in the February issue of Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention. (Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2010;19;447-455.)
Quote February 16, 2010 - Abstract The regular consumption of sugar-laden soft drinks could boost a person's risk of developing pancreatic cancer. The results of a new study found that individuals who consumed 2 or more soft drinks per week had an 87% increased risk for pancreatic cancer, compared with those who did not. Even after taking factors such as smoking, caloric intake, and type 2 diabetes mellitus into account, the authors found that consuming soft drinks might play an independent role in the development of pancreatic cancer. Both soft drinks and fruit juices have a high glycemic load relative to other foods and drinks, and it has been hypothesized that both are risk factors for pancreatic cancer. The high levels of sugar can increase levels of insulin in the body, and this can contribute to pancreatic cancer cell growth, the researchers explain. Some of the text... Quote Results Statistically Significant for Soft Drinks The current study examined the association between the consumption of soft drinks and juice and the risk for pancreatic cancer among Chinese people residing in Singapore. The data came from the Singapore Chinese Health Study (n = 60,524), and information regarding the consumption of soft drinks, juice, and other dietary items, along with lifestyle factors and environmental exposures, was collected at recruitment to the study. The participants were followed for up to 14 years. At the start of the study, 9.7% of the participants consumed at least 2 soft drinks per week and 10.2% consumed at least 2 servings of juice per week. The authors note that, compared with those who did not consume soft drinks, those who consumed 2 or more soft drinks per week were younger, were more likely to be men, and were more likely to smoke cigarettes. They also had higher levels of education, alcohol consumption, and total energy intake; lower levels of physical activity; and consumed more total carbohydrates, fat, added sugar, and red meat. Individuals who reported consuming 2 or more juice drinks a week had lifestyle and dietary habits that were similar to those who consumed soft drinks. However, there was no association between juice intake and cigarette smoking, and body mass index (BMI) was comparable across different categories of soft drink and juice consumption. At 14 years and a cumulative 648,387 person-years of follow-up, 140 incident pancreatic cancers developed in people who were cancer free at baseline. After adjustment for confounders such as BMI, type 2 diabetes mellitus, and fruit juice intake, the authors found that those consuming 2 or more soft drinks per week experienced a statistically significant increased risk for pancreatic cancer (hazard ratio , 1.87; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.10 - 3.15). Although people who consumed 2 or more juice drinks a week had an increased risk for pancreatic cancer of approximately 30%, elevated HR was not statistically significant after adjustment for variables. However, in an age-adjusted analysis, smoking was also a risk factor. After excluding former smokers, the authors found that current smokers had a 49% increased risk for pancreatic cancer, compared with never smokers (HR, 1.49; 95% CI, 0.98 - 2.27). This risk factor remained unaffected after adjustment for diabetes and BMI. Can Be Extrapolated to United States and Europe Singapore is a highly industrialized nation with lifestyle and nutritional patterns reminiscent of many westernized countries. In that sense, these findings could be extrapolated to the United States and Europe, explained Mr. Mueller. Soft drinks are the leading source of added sugar in the American diet, the authors note. "However, there are inherent differences between Singaporean Chinese and Caucasians, which is why one must be cautious when generalizing these results to the United States and Europe," he said. "But it is important to note that other studies in Caucasian populations have suggested that soft drink intake may increase risk for pancreatic cancer." Because pancreatic cancer is a relatively rare disease, the number of cases in this study was relatively small, the authors point out. This limited the statistical power of the study. Another limitation was the inability to collect repeated dietary measurements during the course of the study; therefore, they could not account for changes in consumption of soft drinks and juices. However, this study adds to the evidence that soft drink consumption plays a role in the development of pancreatic cancer, they conclude, and that "clinical studies examining biomarkers for glycemia and insulinemia and taking a mechanistic approach to the question of soft drink consumption and pancreatic cancer are warranted." There is "still much to understand on the link between sugar-sweetened beverages and pancreatic cancer," the authors write. The study was supported by a grant from the National Cancer Institute. The researchers have disclosed no relevant financial relationships. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Mrbloodworth on March 02, 2010, 12:16:53 PM Do they make a distinction between sugar and HFCS? Or is that irrelevant in this case? I would also like to know if they made a distinction between fruit juice (100% not from concentrate) and or "Juice drinks" (Typically from concentrate, 10% juice and a ton of HFCS or sugar water)
I cut out about 98% of my soda intake and try to watch my HFCS in take (its god dam in everything) and drink a lot of whole juices. EDIT: I also see you added more. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 02, 2010, 12:18:52 PM Do they make a distinction between sugar and HFCS? Or is that irrelevant in this case? I'm looking... but am not sure. Being that the source was Singapore, I'd have to assume sucrose. Quote Study Highlights * The Singapore Chinese Health Study is a population-based, prospective cohort study of diet and cancer risk conducted in permanent residents from government-built housing estates where 86% of the population resided. * This study involved 2 dialect groups: the Hokkien and Cantonese originating from the southern part of China. * Participants were men and women aged 45 to 74 years without preexisting pancreatic cancer. * Recruitment was by letter, and staff went from door to door inviting participation with each subject. * A trained interviewer then interviewed the participants face-to-face using a structured scanner-readable questionnaire. * The interviewer asked subjects about demographics, lifestyle, diet, and medical history. * Diet was elicited with a semiquantitative 165-item food frequency questionnaire. * The questionnaire included commonly eaten food from Singapore, with 3 portion sizes and frequency in 8 categories ranging from never or hardly ever to 6 or more times daily. * Photographs of foods were presented to identify the food groups. * The questionnaire was validated against 24-hour recall in at least 1000 participants. * Soft drink portions were defined as 1 glass. * 1 glass was designated as 237 mL and was equivalent to 1 cup. * Juices were categorized into specific drinks that included sugarcane, honeydew melon, apple, watermelon, carrot, pineapple, star fruit, and lemon juices. * The Singapore Food Composition Table was developed to analyze the nutritional content of food types. * Other risk factors for pancreatic cancer were assessed, including BMI, smoking, and physical activity. * Pancreatic cancer cases were ascertained by linkage to the population-based cancer registry and registry of births and deaths. * 142 incident cases were identified, of which 56.4% were histologically confirmed, 38.8% were by clinical and radiologic findings, and 4.8% were identified by death certificates. * Rate of loss to follow-up was only 0.03%. * Mean age was 56 years, 55% were women, mean BMI was 23 kg/m2, 30% were ever-smokers, and 10% had type 2 diabetes. * At baseline, 9.7% of participants consumed at least 2 soft drinks per week and 10.2% consumed at least 2 servings of juice per week. * Those who consumed 2 or more soft drinks or juices weekly were likely to be younger, men, smoke, have higher levels of education, consume alcohol, and have higher energy intake and lower physical activity vs those who consumed no soft drinks or juices. * They also had a higher consumption of total carbohydrates, sugar, and red meat. * After 14 years and 648,387 person-years of follow-up, invasive exocrine pancreatic cancer developed in 140 persons . * Smokers had a 49% increased risk for pancreatic cancer. * BMI and a history of diabetes were not associated with an increased risk for pancreatic cancer. * Results for all risks were similar for men and women, and analysis was combined for the 2 sexes. * Drinking 2 or more soft drinks per week was associated with more than 80% increase in risk for pancreatic cancer after adjustment for other risks (HR, 1.87). * This risk was independent of diabetes and smoking and persisted after excluding those who had pancreatic cancer within 5 years of baseline. * After adjustment, juice intake of 2 or more drinks per week overall was not associated with increased risk, but when smokers were excluded, there was an association between juice intake and pancreatic cancer risk (HR, 1.60). * The authors concluded that soft drink consumption was positively associated with pancreatic cancer risk but that juice consumption was associated with risk among nonsmokers only. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sjofn on March 02, 2010, 12:20:39 PM So if I drink a lot of juice, I should take up smoking? :why_so_serious:
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Hutch on March 02, 2010, 12:28:53 PM So 140 out of "at least 1000 participants" got cancer? And their mean age was 56 to begin with? So at the end of the study, the mean age was 70. So they weren't too far off from dying of heart failure, lung disease (for the smokers), or whatever else kills off old people who don't get cancer.
At any rate, if their hypothesis holds out, I've already killed myself. (Or my pancreas, at any rate.) I consume more than their weekly allotment of juice and/or pop on an almost daily basis. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Draegan on March 02, 2010, 12:34:15 PM The only soda I drink, which may be once or twice a month is Stewart's Diet Rootbeer. Phew!
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sky on March 02, 2010, 12:37:28 PM I get my cancer from phenylalanine, not sugar :awesome_for_real:
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: 01101010 on March 02, 2010, 12:41:55 PM Like everything else.... its bad, its good, its bad, its good. Fuck you, I like my Dr. Pepper and I am going to drink it. Besides, I am so far in debt - dying young would mean I win!
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Kail on March 02, 2010, 12:48:12 PM Oh, goddammit! I just had to click this while I was making a Dr. Pepper ice cream float. Fortunately, I hate life, so it's no big deal.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 02, 2010, 12:52:00 PM I didn't mean this to be a downer or anything. I just thought it would be informative. We're all going to die of something. Enjoy the life you have!
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Morat20 on March 02, 2010, 01:12:07 PM Oh, goddammit! I just had to click this while I was making a Dr. Pepper ice cream float. Fortunately, I hate life, so it's no big deal. Got to buy ice cream and Dr. Pepper on the way home......Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Salamok on March 02, 2010, 02:24:26 PM I get my cancer from phenylalanine, not sugar :awesome_for_real: Yes where is the study on drinking 10 cans of diet soda a day? Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Goreschach on March 02, 2010, 02:30:12 PM Well, it's a good thing we found out about this when we did. Just think of all those poor souls who have been drinking sugary drinks for the past couple thousand years and dying in their prime from this unknown plague. It was a close one, and civilization was almost wiped out, but it looks like we've narrowly avoided the next doomsday yet again.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: rattran on March 02, 2010, 02:39:01 PM Don't shit up the thread.
I cut out soda a couple years ago, I don't miss it. I do have the occasional juice or energy drink, but mostly I just drink coffee or water. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Xurtan on March 02, 2010, 02:50:37 PM I cut out soda a couple years ago, I don't miss it. I do have the occasional juice or energy drink, but mostly I just drink coffee or water. This. Give me unsweetened tea over soda any day; that stuff is just nasty. Coke makes me feel like something died in my mouth. I do however, have a deep abiding love for Ginger Ale. Once a month won't kill me though. :heart: Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: schild on March 02, 2010, 02:59:18 PM Diet Sodas and Energy drinks here. Once every once in a while I get a sucralose energy drink (Monster Import) and I use splenda/stevia in Coffee. This seems to not apply to me.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Signe on March 02, 2010, 03:07:29 PM I like ginger ale once in a while, too. Sugarless, though. I still have clear sugarless or orange soda sometimes. Mainly, however, I make myself iced tea when I want something cold. We put in a filter so tap water is nice again, too. I love strong black coffee and I could drink all day long but I don't. I miss the days I did, though. Once in a while I get some light cranberry juice and the odd sugarless lemonade. I don't drink any other fruit juice at all. I don't have very much sugar in my diet but I'm a bit nuts for salty stuff and savory stuff like nuts or popcorn. Of course, that makes me thirsty. Every thing in the world is a vicious circle! It's not fair. There's all my suggestions for beverages if anyone wants to cut down on soda. I'm sure most of them will give you cancer eventually. :ye_gods:
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Xuri on March 02, 2010, 03:31:45 PM Eh. We're all going to die of something. Might as well be from something I like. *drinks another soda*
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Abagadro on March 02, 2010, 04:16:05 PM Confirming yet again tha one should only drink grain alcohol and rain water.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Evildrider on March 02, 2010, 04:18:51 PM I wonder if they took into consideration that all those people were also breathing. I hear breathing causes cancer. Maybe we should all stop.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: LK on March 02, 2010, 04:28:31 PM There are so many things that can kill you. You avoid one thing, you encourage another. Just do what you love that isn't blatantly harmful, unless you don't give a shit (smoking).
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Minvaren on March 02, 2010, 04:47:05 PM Quote Study Highlights * Those who consumed 2 or more soft drinks or juices weekly were likely to be younger, men, smoke, have higher levels of education, consume alcohol, and have higher energy intake and lower physical activity vs those who consumed no soft drinks or juices. * They also had a higher consumption of total carbohydrates, sugar, and red meat. That pretty much sums up the study right there, even after the control for smoking. As for myself - I'd probably lose a couple of pounds if I ditched the A&W, but drinking water (or anything) all the time gets a bit old. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Strazos on March 02, 2010, 06:51:54 PM I've been drinking tons of Tropicana/Dole stuff with breakfast/lunch lately at work, but end up drinking soda if I go out for happy hour shit.
Mostly just water at home, except when I happen to see the Throwback Mountain Dew at the store...that stuff is delicious. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Khaldun on March 02, 2010, 08:03:49 PM I knew there was a reason I preferred wine.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: caladein on March 02, 2010, 08:14:53 PM Confirming yet again tha one should only drink grain alcohol and rain water. :heart: Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: stray on March 03, 2010, 08:54:04 AM Is this a sugar prob or a hf corn syrup problem? Because it's pretty f'in rare to even come across sugar these days...
That said, I'm a very moderate soda drinker. Not even one a week sometimes. I find it's awesome after a fairly meaty/hearty meal. Especially 7 up.. I drink it for the fizz. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Salamok on March 03, 2010, 09:02:50 AM I've been drinking 50+ diet sodas a week for about 2 decades now, pretty sure I am screwed. I actually wouldn't mind switching to something else but I don't care for water enough to want more than a glass or 2 a day and everything else I have tried drinking in that quantity made me feel like shit (tea, crystal light, various juices).
edit: I have made a small concession in the last few years by limiting my caffeinated sodas to the morning (usually 2). edit2: I've also found when trying to switch to non-carbonated stuff that I drink it much faster and my daily intake goes way up so instead of 120oz of soda I would drink 200oz of tea/water/juice/flavored drink. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Righ on March 03, 2010, 09:13:11 AM The study suggests that older Chinese men living in Singapore have a higher risk of pancreatic cancer if they drink soda. They probably get to die of pancreatic cancer from something else because the local water supply or vast amounts of palm oil in their food doesn't kill them first. ;)
(yes, I'm being facetious, but it is worth bearing in mind that this study was done on a population that has a radically different diet and lifestyle to us) I suspect that of more immediate concern to American soda drinkers (and cookie eaters, ketchup users, etc) is the shocking acceptance of much higher levels of mercury in HFCS than in other food. Death may be preferable to some of the other potential effects. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: stray on March 03, 2010, 09:19:03 AM Singapore is pretty upscale though. Close to Japan/Korea. Everyone's pretty rich, even when they say they aren't. I'm sure their water is fine. Want to rag on water supplies, feel free to use anything else in SE Asia :D
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Johny Cee on March 03, 2010, 09:23:19 AM edit2: I've also found when trying to switch to non-carbonated stuff that I drink it much faster and my daily intake goes way up so instead of 120oz of soda I would drink 200oz of tea/water/juice/flavored drink. Um? That may be a question for your doctor at your next checkup.... excessive water/fluid drinking could indicate a mental or medical illness. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Mosesandstick on March 03, 2010, 09:34:12 AM Singaporean water is fairly clean, and boiling or purifying your tap water before drinking is pretty common.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Righ on March 03, 2010, 10:26:17 AM Singapore is pretty upscale though. Close to Japan/Korea. Everyone's pretty rich, even when they say they aren't. I'm sure their water is fine. Want to rag on water supplies, feel free to use anything else in SE Asia :D Admittedly my first-hand experience is somewhat old since I haven't lived there for nearly 40 years, but they have a huge proportion of recycled water used as drinking water. As with any other developed nation that uses primarily recycled waste water to produce potable water, you get free anti-depressants, hormones and other pharmaceuticals with your tap water and most of that doesn't simply boil off. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Signe on March 03, 2010, 10:41:14 AM Didn't everyone get rich in Singapore when they did away with the poverty line and bustled all the homeless off to the bus station? We should do that, too! I heard that most of the homeless snuck back in but are out of sight because they live under the Formula 1 grandstand.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Lantyssa on March 03, 2010, 11:25:44 AM Really? I thought they were the ones in the grandstands...
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Salamok on March 03, 2010, 11:29:24 AM edit2: I've also found when trying to switch to non-carbonated stuff that I drink it much faster and my daily intake goes way up so instead of 120oz of soda I would drink 200oz of tea/water/juice/flavored drink. Um? That may be a question for your doctor at your next checkup.... excessive water/fluid drinking could indicate a mental or medical illness. I'd say mental, it is just a really bad habit that I need to have a drink at hand when coding. Sort of a mini reward system, code a block then sit back and review what I just did while taking a few sips. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sjofn on March 03, 2010, 03:09:24 PM I went through a period where I was thirsty all the fucking time. I got tested for the diabeetus, but that wasn't it (I predict that is in my future, though). Apparently some people, when stressed, drink a LOT MORE than they would normally. Just another way my brain is busted, yay!
I am trying to cut back on soda but unfortunately my backup drinks are juice or 1% milk (I fucking LOATHE coffee and while I like tea, it's not something I drink to quench a thirst). Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: tazelbain on March 03, 2010, 03:25:30 PM Add me to the list of people who dropped a good deal of weight cutting out sugar. Water tastes better now.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Teleku on March 03, 2010, 04:09:58 PM Beer is a perfectly healthy substitute for soda, right? Because the same time I cut out soda from my life is around the same time I started drinking beer heavily...
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Johny Cee on March 03, 2010, 05:26:08 PM edit2: I've also found when trying to switch to non-carbonated stuff that I drink it much faster and my daily intake goes way up so instead of 120oz of soda I would drink 200oz of tea/water/juice/flavored drink. Um? That may be a question for your doctor at your next checkup.... excessive water/fluid drinking could indicate a mental or medical illness. I'd say mental, it is just a really bad habit that I need to have a drink at hand when coding. Sort of a mini reward system, code a block then sit back and review what I just did while taking a few sips. Yah, I'm not trying to be internet diagnostician guy.... just that you seem to drink much more fluids than is normal which is usually a hormone thing or a mental thing. The only reason I know about the psychological side of it was a part-time job in college working with DD/mentally hadicapped folks where we actively had to ration how much they could drink and it was a side effect of some other issues. Forgot the term for it. Just saying it could be something to mention the next time you go in for a physical. Could just be an indicator that you're more stressed by your work environment than you realize. I pretty much cut soda out of my diet a couple years ago, especially after we got a Britta pitcher at work. Diet sodas, besides not tasting very good, are still full of the other nasty shit that is standard in carbonized drinks. Even diet soda does a number on your teeth. Coffee with lots of milk (no sugar) and water are about the extent of my drink choices now. Sometimes I have a flavoured iced tea of some sort as a treat, though I usually drink one bottle over the course of a week. Unsweetened tea in the winter or when I have a cold is nice. Like taz said, cutting out the soda is a surprisingly easy way to lose some weight. Especially if you're desk bound. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ghost on March 04, 2010, 06:38:00 AM While I don't believe that drinking lots of soda is good for you, the pancreatic cancer link is possibly a bit overblown. Pancreatic cancer is very rare and even with their numbers it appears that you are talking about a difference of 45 people out of the 45,000 or so that appeared to be in the study. I always raise an eyebrow when they say, "you have an X% increased chance of gettting X disease because of doing X." Increased percentage chance of having something happen is only particularly relevant if the percent increase is very significant or if the numbers were significant in the baseline group.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 04, 2010, 06:41:51 AM While I don't believe that drinking lots of soda is good for you, the pancreatic cancer link is possibly a bit overblown. Pancreatic cancer is very rare and even with their numbers it appears that you are talking about a difference of 45 people out of the 45,000 or so that appeared to be in the study. I always raise an eyebrow when they say, "you have an X% increased chance of gettting X disease because of doing X." Increased percentage chance of having something happen is only particularly relevant if the percent increase is very significant or if the numbers were significant in the baseline group. I agree completely. Buying two powerball tickets doubles your chances of winning. I wasn't attempting to make a political statement here. I just thought it was an informative study as I ran across it in my weekly journal review. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ghost on March 04, 2010, 06:55:42 AM I agree completely. Buying two powerball tickets doubles your chances of winning. Actually, I don't think it does. I have read somewhere that you have to buy an insane number of tickets to actually increase your chances. Statistics are strange things.I wasn't attempting to make a political statement here. I just thought it was an informative study as I ran across it in my weekly journal review. I know. I just know medical research and thought it would be fun to discuss the intricacies of the article. I'm out of the political arguments. Edit: FYI, I am highly critical of the soda industry, HFCS and food additives in general. I love it when people weigh 400 pounds and wonder why they're obese- "what do you mean I get 2800 calories per day from this case of Mountain Dew that I drink?" Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 04, 2010, 07:01:59 AM Actually, I don't think it does. I have read somewhere that you have to buy an insane number of tickets to actually increase your chances. Statistics are strange things. The odds of being a jackpot winner for like Mega Millions are 1 in 175,711,536. Wouldn't buying two tickets make the odds 2 in 175,711,536 or double? I don't claim to be a math wiz. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Cyrrex on March 04, 2010, 07:39:26 AM Yes, those are doubled odds. Maybe he's saying something along the lines of "even though your statistical odds have doubled, your actual chances of winning are so unlikely that it's not even worth noting the increase." Or something. Who cares.
As far as the on topic part of the thread goes: Soft drinks, whether diet or otherwise, are basically just cans full of poison. We all know they're bad for us. If it has an ingredient you wouldn't use in your every day language, chances are it isn't good for you. I'm currently drinking a Powerade (my wife gets them for free, otherwise I wouldn't), and the list of ingredients on the label is fucking ridiculous. And diabetic concerns aside, I'll never believe that all sugars are created equal. I know that a glass of pure apple juice may have as much (or more) in terms of sugar calories as a can of Coke, but you cannot compare these things. The one is good for you in almost every way. The other will fucking kill you dead. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sky on March 04, 2010, 08:53:04 AM Beer is a perfectly healthy substitute for soda, right? Because the same time I cut out soda from my life is around the same time I started drinking beer heavily... Light beer is about 100 calories per can.http://www.beer100.com/beercalories.htm Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ghost on March 04, 2010, 09:29:11 AM Actually, I don't think it does. I have read somewhere that you have to buy an insane number of tickets to actually increase your chances. Statistics are strange things. The odds of being a jackpot winner for like Mega Millions are 1 in 175,711,536. Wouldn't buying two tickets make the odds 2 in 175,711,536 or double? I don't claim to be a math wiz. Odds are not necessarily the same as your probability of winning. Odds do not equal probability. Regardless, the point remains valid in that the closer you get to infinitely small the less that doubling, tripling or even quadrupling that number will matter. Drug companies, food companies, cigarette manufacturers, etc. have all exploited this discrepancy in the past and it appears that the author of the article is playing to this effect. 140 cases out of 60,000 people is very small (.23%). Additionally, one would have to question whether or not the environmental effects of just being in Singapore could be a reason for the difference- I don't see what control they were comparing their group against to make the "87% increase" proclamation. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: 01101010 on March 04, 2010, 10:41:50 AM Confounding variables be damned! Full speed ahead! What I would like to know is who is at the end of this funding money line...
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ghost on March 04, 2010, 11:22:09 AM Confounding variables be damned! Full speed ahead! What I would like to know is who is at the end of this funding money line... Big Corn Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 04, 2010, 11:33:22 AM I don't see what control they were comparing their group against to make the "87% increase" proclamation. If you're that interested, you can grab the article and contact the PI by email. If you have a legitimate reason to ask, I'm sure that they would take the time to respond to your question. I field questions about my research all the time, particularly as it relates to something that I've published or presented. I don't want to debate semantics... that wasn't the reason that I posted the article summary. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ghost on March 04, 2010, 12:47:18 PM If you're that interested, you can grab the article and contact the PI by email. If you have a legitimate reason to ask, I'm sure that they would take the time to respond to your question. I field questions about my research all the time, particularly as it relates to something that I've published or presented. I don't want to debate semantics... that wasn't the reason that I posted the article summary. You think having an appropriate control group is "semantics"? Again, I know why you posted it- soft drinks are bad for your health. There's nothing wrong with some good natured nitpicking of the research. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 04, 2010, 12:51:31 PM You think having an appropriate control group is "semantics"? Nope. I don't. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: rattran on March 04, 2010, 12:52:41 PM No, but you're casting aspersions on the study without finding out specifics. As Nebu said, "If you have a legitimate reason to ask, I'm sure that they would take the time to respond to your question" otherwise you're just shitting up the thread. Don't be a Broughden.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ghost on March 04, 2010, 12:55:41 PM Why is pointing out that an 87% increase in pancreatic cancer might not really mean anything "shitting up the thread"? Every educated person on here knows that this is true. Why not just fucking say "hmm" and move on, then?
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 04, 2010, 01:00:48 PM Go ahead and Den this. I'm sorry I even posted it.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ghost on March 04, 2010, 01:25:13 PM Nah, just den my part out of it. I thought Nebu might have enjoyed discussing some of the points of the article. I guess I was wrong- sorry.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ezrast on March 04, 2010, 02:00:55 PM Odds are not necessarily the same as your probability of winning. Odds do not equal probability. Hate to further the shitting up of the thread, but, what?Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Lantyssa on March 04, 2010, 02:18:42 PM If it has an ingredient you wouldn't use in your every day language, chances are it isn't good for you. Uh, my first degree is in chemistry... ;DTitle: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Righ on March 04, 2010, 02:48:28 PM I thought Nebu might have enjoyed discussing some of the points of the article. I can't say whether he would or he wouldn't but that wasn't really one of the points of the article. It's reasonably clear from the précis that the scientists conducting the study were well aware of the narrow focus of the study group - it was the commentary that (daringly) suggested that it could be applied to other groups considered similar in the author's opinion. Typically speaking, the commentary will be written by an independent scientist who has reviewed and supports the paper. It doesn't mean that the researchers made claims without appropriate controls. It's some guy stating "I like this paper, more people should read it". It's the science equivalent of a hype man. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Raging Turtle on March 04, 2010, 03:15:12 PM ITT people show they have no idea how experiments are run.
Seriously, if this was a peer-reviewed, published study (as I'm assuming it is from the mainly from the magazine name, correct me if I'm wrong), people far smarter than the ones babbling here have conidered every single point that's been brought up so far. The fact that is was only 47 people (or whatever) that got cancer? There's no reason that wouldn't be enough to be statistically significant (although I'll admit the study says it limits it's statistical power). 87% more likely to get pancreative cancer! Soda's going to kill you, me, and everyone we love! Well, no, if there's 42,000 cases a year in the US (from wiki), and there's 300 million people, an 87% increase is still tiny. The fact that they did in in Singapore? Well, it is pretty much a first world country, but they're brown/non-white, so it can't possibly be relevant for people in the U.S. :uhrr: An "appropriate" control group? Yes, you can actually take into account differences in age and lifestyle and still come up with meaningly data. Statistics is very much a hard science - sure, you can set up an experiment to show any result you want, but that's where peer review tends laugh you out on your ass. And this was especially fun: Confounding variables be damned! Full speed ahead! What I would like to know is who is at the end of this funding money line... Big Corn It says in the OP that the study was funded by the National Cancer Instititute. But keep on believing that it's all a conspiracy! Now, this is just one study, and despite what CNN or FOX says, just one study on any given subject is pretty much meaningless. But what if there were more studies? From the OP: Quote However, this study adds to the evidence that soft drink consumption plays a role in the development of pancreatic cancer, they conclude, and that "clinical studies examining biomarkers for glycemia and insulinemia and taking a mechanistic approach to the question of soft drink consumption and pancreatic cancer are warranted." And that's why some people are shitting up the thread. Because clearly, those damn 'educated elites' are far too stupid to think of these blindingly obvious things. /science journalism is a joke, I know //I like root beer ///haven't had a soda in months Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sheepherder on March 04, 2010, 03:28:07 PM Do they make a distinction between sugar and HFCS? Or is that irrelevant in this case? I would also like to know if they made a distinction between fruit juice (100% not from concentrate) and or "Juice drinks" (Typically from concentrate, 10% juice and a ton of HFCS or sugar water) Note for all the people drinking "Fresh, not concentrate" juice: it's not fresh in any sense of the word that you would recognize. (http://books.google.ca/books?id=5AUjN-B4LfsC) Quote ...even “not from concentrate” orange juice is heated, stripped of flavor, stored for up to a year, and then reflavored before it is packaged and sold. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: 01101010 on March 04, 2010, 03:41:10 PM I shal refrain from spouting off any quips right now, but I will say that I have been published in a scientific journal and the whole process does in fact hinge on getting enough of "your" people to agree with you to push your journal article through. Granted, "your" people are others in the same field and knowledgeable on the same topic, but once they get your article and they already "like" you, its not uncommon to have a mild review and get published. My article was my thesis and I hardly knew anyone in the field being a Master's student so it was a bitch of a process and the article was submitted to several different journals before being R & R'd then accepted.
And don't bring up the blind academic review bullshit either. They way people write an article is like signing your name. My adviser at LSU sat on several journal review committees in his long career and he could pick out an author even though it was never revealed - just by the style it was written, statistics used, and topic at hand. If he liked you, he would suggest you clean it up a bit here and there. If not, he would outright reject it, which lead to the author having to submit it elsewhere. That whole process was an eye opener and was a definite motivator for me to move away from peer reviewed research and my PhD as a whole. I don't give a shit about conspiracies, I have seen the process first hand and was in the grinder for almost a year before my article came out. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Abagadro on March 04, 2010, 03:51:03 PM Talking about a "control group" in this kind of study is nonsensical. This isn't that type of study where you are applying outside stimuli and seeing how it works so you need another group who doesn't receive it to measure against. The fact that they are all from one area/ethnicity is actually helpful because it is one less independent variable you have to control for in trying to isolate correlation/causation for the dependent variable. There could always be intervening unaccounted for variables that would skew things, but the fact they are from the same population is somewhat the opposite of such a phenomenon.
As for the small number of cases, you can always run into a "small N" problem, but here it looks like there was statistical significance to the increase and the journal would have likely found any issues in the actual math in the review process. It is an important piece of research and I hope there is more follow up. This is what killed my dad and causation for pancreatic cancer is a bit of a mystery (my suspicion was him being downwind of the atomic testing next door in Nevada, but that is just my speculation). Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ghost on March 04, 2010, 04:21:03 PM Talking about a "control group" in this kind of study is nonsensical. Actually, it really isn't at all. Controlled, randomized trials are the very epitome of good research. If you think otherwise you are a blithering idiot that knows nothing of research. They absolutely have to have a "control" group to compare to get their baseline figures. I am assuming that they are comparing the "haves" to the "have nots" within the study. This is a problem with a longitudinal observational study.This isn't that type of study where you are applying outside stimuli and seeing how it works so you need another group who doesn't receive it to measure against. True. It is an observational study, which are traditionally shit and looked upon by medicine as the worst form of research. The fact that they are all from one area/ethnicity is actually helpful because it is one less independent variable you have to control for in trying to isolate correlation/causation for the dependent variable. There could always be intervening unaccounted for variables that would skew things, but the fact they are from the same population is somewhat the opposite of such a phenomenon. Two points on this: first, a study on Chinese-Singaporeans that compares to other Chinese-Singaporeans has little comparison value to the American or European populations, particularly if they don't have a group that is followed which is outside for comparison. They might as well have done the study on fucking dogs, for all that it matters to the rest of the world. Hence why these types studies are shit.As for the small number of cases, you can always run into a "small N" problem, but here it looks like there was statistical significance to the increase and the journal would have likely found any issues in the actual math in the review process. Or they could run into the exact opposite problem in which they keep adding subjects until they find something to write about- they call that mining data and it leads to suspect results. It is an important piece of research and I hope there is more follow up. This is what killed my dad and causation for pancreatic cancer is a bit of a mystery (my suspicion was him being downwind of the atomic testing next door in Nevada, but that is just my speculation). Sorry to hear about your pops. Pancreatic cancer is a horrible, horrible thing. You are probably right about the nuclear testing, but how many sodas did he drink per day..........? With this article you might have a lawsuit on your hands. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Goreschach on March 04, 2010, 04:40:28 PM It's funny how in these threads you can always immediately recognise the ex-fatties. They're always the ones who go on this idiotic zealous crusade against sugar, or fat, or preservatives, or plastics, or whatever the latest health fad bullshit is, like they're trying to 'make up' for all the years of being a big fatass.
Being born is statistically 100% correlated with future incidence of death. Deal with that one. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ezrast on March 04, 2010, 04:47:16 PM It's funny how in these threads you can always immediately recognise the ex-fatties. They're always the ones who go on this idiotic zealous crusade against sugar, or fat, or preservatives, or plastics, or whatever the latest health fad bullshit is, like they're trying to 'make up' for all the years of being a big fatass. Heh, I almost posted something about how I was going to outlive all you fuckers because I basically never drink soda. But I didn't! I've also never been fat. Coincidence???Being born is statistically 100% correlated with future incidence of death. Deal with that one. Ghost, have you, uh, had much in the way of formal education regarding statistics? Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Abagadro on March 04, 2010, 05:20:46 PM That is my question too. I don't agree with your characterization of this type of research at all.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Raging Turtle on March 04, 2010, 08:06:17 PM Ghost, have you, uh, had much in the way of formal education regarding statistics? Rather than SirBruce his Sirbrucing, I'm going to say that, as someone who *has* had a fair amount of education in these areas (but not professional experience, I'll admit) that no, he hasn't. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: bhodi on March 04, 2010, 08:11:25 PM Go ahead and Den this. I'm sorry I even posted it. Don't be. I and others thought it was interesting :)Besides, this is a good way to engage in a little bit of societal conditioning of our own. Be stupid, be made fun of publicly! Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Lantyssa on March 04, 2010, 08:49:27 PM Actually, it really isn't at all. Controlled, randomized trials are the very epitome of good research. If you think otherwise you are a blithering idiot that knows nothing of research. They absolutely have to have a "control" group to compare to get their baseline figures. I am assuming that they are comparing the "haves" to the "have nots" within the study. This is a problem with a longitudinal observational study. There are plenty of studies which take a look at a large population (60k in this case) who have been tracked for a large number of conditions and living styles over a number of years. Then they look for various correlations between disease and lifestyle. Not cause, but correlation. Which is why they usually say in their conclusion that this needs to be studied in further detail to determine why these results happened.The control is the group itself, because you split out people who did X from people who did Y and see what the differences are. 60,000 people is an excellent sample size for a long-term study. Many disease researchers would love to have that many people. You've got 10k who drank soda, 10k who drank juice, and 40k who drank neither. Confirm that you have equal proportions of other factors spread amongst these groups and that those conditions show no significant statistical difference and thus you have Group A, Group B, and Control. And it doesn't mean it is definitive, it means they have found something which can be looked at in other broad, longitudinal studies to see if similar results are found. It's perfectly valid, and arguing it's not shows you're either ignorant or an idiot. Fortunately one of those can be fixed if you are so inclined. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Abagadro on March 04, 2010, 09:58:57 PM The control is the group itself, because you split out people who did X from people who did Y and see what the differences are Indeed. In this kind of study/analysis, every group is, in effect, a "control group." If you expanded it to other racial/nationalities you wouldn't have a "control group," you would just have another independent variable that could be plugged into the model and controlled (via regression most likely, I didn't get that into this particular study) to determine its effect. Crabbing about no "control group" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of this type of statistical analysis. Expanding to include that population might be a good idea as it would eliminate a possible intervening variable that isn't accounted for in the model, but it in no way would constitute a "control group." Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Tannhauser on March 05, 2010, 03:44:25 AM I quit drinking all sodas about nine months ago and don't miss it. I do drink a lot of sugary fruit drinks though because OJ and milk can bother my stomach. Haven't lost any weight and I feel about the same so haven't seen any benefits from it.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sky on March 05, 2010, 06:21:01 AM Quote ...even “not from concentrate” orange juice is heated, stripped of flavor, stored for up to a year, and then reflavored before it is packaged and sold. Buy local. I don't drink orange juice much, but I drink a lot of apple juice and cider in the autumn, from the local orchards. Another one of those arguments in favor of seasons (from the snow picture discussion). Even if you could get fresh apple products around the year, it wouldn't be as special. The crisp autumn air, smell of gently decaying leaves, a nice warm mug of cider.Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: stray on March 05, 2010, 07:44:31 AM I quit drinking all sodas about nine months ago and don't miss it. I do drink a lot of sugary fruit drinks though because OJ and milk can bother my stomach. Haven't lost any weight and I feel about the same so haven't seen any benefits from it. You'd definitely see a loss of weight cutting the juice too... um if that was your goal. Some of them have as much sugar as soda. One of the easiest ways to make an improvement though, since natural less sugary alternatives taste better anyways. No real effort required on your part except better shopping skillz. :grin: Heh not sure if I'm coming off as preachy now. Never been fat exactly... but in my early 20's, I was about 50 lbs heavier, and I'm sure a lot of it had to do with soda. sugary stuff, and fast food. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nerf on March 05, 2010, 08:13:12 AM This thread makes me want to buy a juicer.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 05, 2010, 08:33:30 AM I thought Nebu might have enjoyed discussing some of the points of the article. Discussing? Yes, I'd be happy to. I'm a medicinal chemist with clinical expertise in heme/onc. If you have something to discuss along those lines I'd be happy to. I have no interest in debating the statistical merit of this paper. I just found it interesting that a group moved a step closer to understanding some relationships/links between diet and cancer. On another note: I once had a nutritional expert tell me that I should never drink my fruit. You miss out on a lot of nutritional components that drinking juice bypasses. I'm still terrible about drinking too many diet sodas, but I'm working on drinking more water. I hope to drink nothing but water & tea eventually. I just allow myself one vice and lately it has been diet coke. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: ezrast on March 05, 2010, 10:13:36 AM Oh yeah. Juice as a substitute for soda is a step up, juice as a substitute for fruit is doing it wrong. Tons of nutrients in the pulp you miss out on and the blood sugar spike/crash from easily-absorbed juice doesn't compare to the steady release of energy from actual digestion.
Or something. I'm not a dietitian. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: 01101010 on March 05, 2010, 10:32:14 AM Bottom line: Soda is cheaper - in convenience and $ for the amount you get.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Mrbloodworth on March 05, 2010, 11:23:55 AM Do they make a distinction between sugar and HFCS? Or is that irrelevant in this case? I would also like to know if they made a distinction between fruit juice (100% not from concentrate) and or "Juice drinks" (Typically from concentrate, 10% juice and a ton of HFCS or sugar water) Note for all the people drinking "Fresh, not concentrate" juice: it's not fresh in any sense of the word that you would recognize. (http://books.google.ca/books?id=5AUjN-B4LfsC) Quote ...even “not from concentrate” orange juice is heated, stripped of flavor, stored for up to a year, and then reflavored before it is packaged and sold. Yes, I was aware of the pasteurization, side effect of that is "loss of flavor". The rest, I dont know. All I know is I look for the LEAST processed stuff I can find. Typically "Not from concentrate" also means that it lacks non-fruit sugar and other additives, but I also make sure I look at the content of juice, as in the %. This is why I made the distinction in my original post. I would hope that ANY shopper of juice knows what a "Juice drink" is, and how it differs from "100% juice" and "not from concentrate", I happen to look for the combined "100% not from concentrate". Also, I am over weight, but only by about 10 pounds, so I don't know about the fatty comment. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Signe on March 05, 2010, 11:33:04 AM Bottom line: Soda is cheaper - in convenience and $ for the amount you get. Not in Philadelphia, soon. Evidently, there will be a really significant tax on soft drinks that will add about 2 cents an ounce. So tack on about $2.88 to your twelve pack which brings it up to almost $8.50. So, a twelve pack of Coke, a pack of cigs and a pizza will probably cost you over $25. Oh, and they're raising the trash removal rates quite a bit, too, so it'll cost you more to have the rubbish you create from it taken away. That's a pricey Saturday night treat! On the plus size (no pun intended), a full fifty percent of the children in Philadelphia are considered to be obese and this might do something to help in that respect. Maybe. I don't know. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sky on March 05, 2010, 12:00:27 PM Diet Coke at walmart used to run about 6.50 a two-four, now it's almost 9 bucks...without any new tax. Getting to be almost as expensive as beer!
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: 01101010 on March 05, 2010, 12:02:40 PM Bottom line: Soda is cheaper - in convenience and $ for the amount you get. Not in Philadelphia, soon. Evidently, there will be a really significant tax on soft drinks that will add about 2 cents an ounce. So tack on about $2.88 to your twelve pack which brings it up to almost $8.50. So, a twelve pack of Coke, a pack of cigs and a pizza will probably cost you over $25. Oh, and they're raising the trash removal rates quite a bit, too, so it'll cost you more to have the rubbish you create from it taken away. That's a pricey Saturday night treat! On the plus size (no pun intended), a full fifty percent of the children in Philadelphia are considered to be obese and this might do something to help in that respect. Maybe. I don't know. I did hear about that. Problem isn't so much the grocery store offerings but the vending machines and the "end of the aisle" fridges in box stores. The grab and go stuff tends to favor soda greatly. No matter the ins and outs, I buy whatever is cheapest in the morning quick stop at the gas station - this week and last it has been Lipton tea - 32oz for 99 cent. I got a whole list of shit I am dying from and soda is not even on the board. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 05, 2010, 12:05:02 PM Diet Coke at walmart used to run about 6.50 a two-four, now it's almost 9 bucks...without any new tax. Getting to be almost as expensive as beer! I think that WalMart may have entered into some kind of agreement with Pepsico to raise the price fo coke products. If you go to target, Coke products are much cheaper. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Lightstalker on March 05, 2010, 01:36:04 PM Diet Coke at walmart used to run about 6.50 a two-four, now it's almost 9 bucks...without any new tax. Getting to be almost as expensive as beer! I think that WalMart may have entered into some kind of agreement with Pepsico to raise the price fo coke products. If you go to target, Coke products are much cheaper. Costco stopped carrying Coke (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/nov/18/costco-coke-relations-fizzle/) products for a few weeks because Coke was unwilling to allow Costco to sell at their desired price. If there is price pressure it is probably coming from the supplier side and not the retailer (and certainly not competitor supplier). Coke eventually caved (presumably, given the tone of the post-spat analysis) and their products are on shelves again (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121433430). Coke and Pepsi will enter into exclusivity contracts, for instance on college campuses, and will aggressively eliminate competitor vending but that doesn't typically extend to large retail stores. Any pressure from Pepsi with respect to Coke would be to eliminate the other from shelves entirely. Mutual price setting sounds anti-competative and illegal, actually. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Rasix on March 05, 2010, 01:46:55 PM It was a dark, dark day when UofA went Pepsi only.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Teleku on March 05, 2010, 01:51:06 PM It was a glorious day when SDSU went from having Coke exclusively to carrying Pepsi exclusivly. Unfortunatly, that day was the year right after I graduated. :oh_i_see:
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Tannhauser on March 05, 2010, 03:11:25 PM Ok I checked. I drink Juicy Juice and it claims to have no sugar.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Samwise on March 05, 2010, 03:31:39 PM Ok I checked. I drink Juicy Juice and it claims to have no sugar. No added refined sugar, but fruit juice on its own has a good amount of natural sugar that isn't necessarily good for you in massive quantities. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sheepherder on March 05, 2010, 05:32:14 PM Yes, I was aware of the pasteurization, side effect of that is "loss of flavor". The rest, I dont know. All I know is I look for the LEAST processed stuff I can find. Typically "Not from concentrate" also means that it lacks non-fruit sugar and other additives, but I also make sure I look at the content of juice, as in the %. This is why I made the distinction in my original post. I would hope that ANY shopper of juice knows what a "Juice drink" is, and how it differs from "100% juice" and "not from concentrate", I happen to look for the combined "100% not from concentrate". Quote Oranges have a limited growing season, and because there is demand for juice year round, an unspecified quantity of juice (some or potentially all) is deaerated and then stored for future packaging in chilled tanks to preserve quality. The aseptic tanks protect the juice from oxygen and light and hold the liquid at optimal temperatures just above freezing to maintain nutrition. It has been reported that deaerated juice no longer tastes like oranges, and must be supplemented with flavor packs before consumption which are derived from orange oils and Ethyl butyrate (ethanol and butyric acid). Tropicana also uses small quantities of high-quality orange juice from Brazil to supplement the Florida crop. You're not as savvy as you think you are. If it's liquid juice and not local it has additives, they're just not listed, because they're "100% Juice, not from concentrate," by virtue of the additives being manufactured from the remains of the juicing process, or by being mixed with another batch of juice which is then mixed with the original, allowing them to get away with calling it disingenuous shit in the ingredients list. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: LK on March 05, 2010, 05:34:37 PM Either get anal about every little thing you put into your body and how it's bad for you, or you stop worrying about it and do portion control and regulation of what you eat and drink to lead a healthy life.
I can't begin to tell you how impacted my quality of life would be if I gave into the anxiety I feel about how everything I eat could be bad for me. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: stray on March 06, 2010, 12:18:02 PM It's not good to be anal, you're right. But simply trying to be normal and fairly natural can appear anal to many people too (in the US at least) - when the truth is that the surrounding culture is in the extreme. Like, for example, if you tagged along with friends at a fast food restaurant, and decided to order nothing.. you might get a question or two about it. But the truth is, everything on the menu is pretty shitty, and you're not being anal for not wanting any of it (note, i'm not this way myself.. i can at least find a couple of things at these places.. but i don't blame anyone who can't).
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: sigil on March 06, 2010, 06:27:26 PM It was a dark, dark day when UofA went Pepsi only. What the FUCK? When?!? Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Mrbloodworth on March 06, 2010, 06:28:45 PM You're not as savvy as you think you are. I know I am making the best choice with my current options. That's all that matters. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Rasix on March 06, 2010, 09:48:32 PM It was a dark, dark day when UofA went Pepsi only. What the FUCK? When?!? Arizona. Not Alabama. Don't worry, you're probably safe. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sheepherder on March 06, 2010, 11:08:29 PM Ok I checked. I drink Juicy Juice and it claims to have no sugar. Quote 2. What makes Juicy Juice 100% juice? Regulations allow for the addition of non-juice ingredients to a 100% juice product if they do not decrease the amount of juice soluble solids. Link (http://www.juicyjuice.com/Products/FAQs.aspx#Question_2) I know I am making the best choice with my current options. That's all that matters. You could try drinking beer with your Cheerios? :why_so_serious: Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 07, 2010, 10:41:02 AM Arizona. Not Alabama. Don't worry, you're probably safe. Same confusion as UW, UT, U of M, etc. Those things all have very different meanings depending on who you are. I graduated from the U of M and hate it when people ask "Michigan?". Minnesota is the 2nd or third largest university in the country for god's sake. Then again, the UW I refer to is in Madison, not Seattle. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sjofn on March 07, 2010, 09:09:41 PM Quote ...even “not from concentrate” orange juice is heated, stripped of flavor, stored for up to a year, and then reflavored before it is packaged and sold. Buy local. I don't drink orange juice much, but I drink a lot of apple juice and cider in the autumn, from the local orchards. Another one of those arguments in favor of seasons (from the snow picture discussion). Even if you could get fresh apple products around the year, it wouldn't be as special. The crisp autumn air, smell of gently decaying leaves, a nice warm mug of cider.I miss seasons SO BAD and that is totally one of the reasons. Ingmar does not understand me on this. :( Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Signe on March 07, 2010, 10:05:25 PM I grew up with very distinct seasons, too, and when I live somewhere that doesn't have them - or at least not the four very different ones - I reluctantly admit that I miss them, too. Of course, when I do have them (like now), I mostly complain about them.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: 01101010 on March 08, 2010, 03:05:53 AM I grew up with very distinct seasons, too, and when I live somewhere that doesn't have them - or at least not the four very different ones - I reluctantly admit that I miss them, too. Of course, when I do have them (like now), I mostly complain about them. My thoughts exactly...(literally) Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Nebu on March 08, 2010, 06:02:14 AM I went from living in the Rockies (at 7500 feet where it snowed in July) to the deep south. While I miss having the mountains nearby to hike and ski in, I do not miss the weather. Having 60 degree weather to jog in during the month of January was awesome as is being able to golf every month of the year. You can have your 4 seasons. Growing up in Minneapolis cured me of winter forever.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sky on March 08, 2010, 07:06:06 AM Of course, when I do have them (like now), I mostly complain about them. Most people do. I don't get it, if you hate cold winters, we have a massive country. You wouldn't even need to learn a new language like if you moved to Scotland.Nebu, why jog when you can slap on the x-country skis :) Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Signe on March 08, 2010, 08:52:56 AM When we moved from Britain, we came to this bit of the country because it's the only bit where I have family. I grew up with very harsh winters, and I also lived in the Rockies for several years and loved it, especially when I was an avid skier. When we move again, it will be somewhere with more moderate weather, I hope. Like Nebu, I'm not really so interested in cold, snowy winters anymore. Since my dad died last year, I have less reason to be in this area as my sister and her family are capable of traveling to visit, which wasn't the case with my father. People have all sorts of reasons for living where they live and, unfortunately, it's not always because that's where they want to be.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Cyrrex on March 08, 2010, 08:56:00 AM I currently live in the Chicago area, and can't help but marvel at the fact that 8 million other people have chosen to make this place their home. I mean, the city itself is nice and at least half of the year is pretty nice in terms of weather...but the winter just sucks complete ass. It's like we're trying to re-experience the ice age, or something.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Samwise on March 08, 2010, 09:04:37 AM I live in the Bay Area in large part because I think harsh seasons are for suckers. Snow is nice to visit, but I'm glad I never have to drive on it on my way to work. And any temperature above 80 can just fuck right off, especially if it's humid on top of that.
Spring and fall are the best seasons, and they're pretty much the same everywhere anyway. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Cyrrex on March 08, 2010, 09:16:26 AM To be honest, I don't think it's the odd driving through the snow that is annoying. Rather, it's the months upon months of freezing ass cold and snow on the ground. This winter seems to have been far warmer than the last two, but even so, there has been snow on the ground since basically Christmas. It gets old.
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sky on March 08, 2010, 09:46:54 AM And any temperature above 80 can just fuck right off, especially if it's humid on top of that. I agree with that one, anyway. I usually don't use air conditioning, but once it gets over 85 and humid I just die.Driving in the snow is one of my favorite things to do :) I've actually been bummed out this winter because there hasn't been much need for my snowblower. I've only done the roof once, and I didn't really need to. I just love being outside working when there's a nice snow storm with a strong wind. To me, that's as nice as a sunny midsummer day about 75 or a cool evening breeze after a hot day. I enjoy most of the spectrum. Only thing I really don't like (besides 85+/humid) is black ice on the roads, because it's so dangerous and there's not really much you can do about it. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Lantyssa on March 08, 2010, 09:53:08 AM Forget pancreatic cancer, you're just going to DIE if you drink soda. (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/study-sugary-drinks-lead-early-grave/story?id=10019518)
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: 01101010 on March 08, 2010, 09:57:56 AM Forget pancreatic cancer, you're just going to DIE if you drink soda. (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/study-sugary-drinks-lead-early-grave/story?id=10019518) Heh. Soda addiction. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sjofn on March 08, 2010, 12:25:49 PM I don't miss the summer much (NJ summer is ass, humid and miserable), but I miss fall and winter so much. NJ winters are not (usually, this year has been crazy) super cold or snowy, in my opinion, so it's not like I'm yearning for blizzards or anything. Ingmar is a delicate flower that can't stand when it dips into the 50's though (he also hates 80+, but so do I, so we're even there), so I doubt very much I will live through another real winter. I find that kinda sad. :(
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: 01101010 on March 08, 2010, 12:47:32 PM I don't miss the summer much (NJ summer is ass, humid and miserable), but I miss fall and winter so much. NJ winters are not (usually, this year has been crazy) super cold or snowy, in my opinion, so it's not like I'm yearning for blizzards or anything. Ingmar is a delicate flower that can't stand when it dips into the 50's though (he also hates 80+, but so do I, so we're even there), so I doubt very much I will live through another real winter. I find that kinda sad. :( When I look back, I was the happiest when I was in Baton Rouge in the dead of July and August. I thrive in the repressive heat and humidity. There are times when it gets too hot of course, but I prefer sweltering to freezing. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Lantyssa on March 08, 2010, 01:30:04 PM I do, too. It's likely due to me being raised in that weather along with many generations of my family living in it. Even with the slight amount of insulation I've put on, the cold cuts right through me. I'm just bred for the Southern weather.
It also explains my addiction to Coke. ;D Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sky on March 08, 2010, 01:34:30 PM it's not like I'm yearning for blizzards or anything. I AM YEARNING FOR BLIZZARDSI prefer freezing to sweltering, because I can get a hot stove going cheaply to warm the house and be comfortable. AC = $$$ and I don't have central air (yet, the fiancee will want it eventually). Also, I can put on a couple layers and be comfortable outside in the winter, but in the summer you can only remove so many clothes and you're still sweating and miserable. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: RhyssaFireheart on March 08, 2010, 01:40:33 PM I currently live in the Chicago area, and can't help but marvel at the fact that 8 million other people have chosen to make this place their home. I mean, the city itself is nice and at least half of the year is pretty nice in terms of weather...but the winter just sucks complete ass. It's like we're trying to re-experience the ice age, or something. ^^^^^ x a million or something. Winter in Chicagoland just seems to drag on and on and on and on. Since the MiL moved down to NC to be with the FiL, we have no real reason to stay in this area any longer. I'd happily move somewhere else in the country but the husband isn't buying. Pretty much the only thing keeping us here is, oddly enough, the husband's hobby. He's a HS swimming and water polo official and after over 20 years doing this, he's not ready to start over at the bottom in another state. I suppose eventually we'll leave the area, but who knows when that will happen. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Selby on March 08, 2010, 07:04:05 PM All I know is that after being 5 years in San Diego and 20 before that in the West Texas deserts, I don't know if I am cut out for these San Francisco winters where it's cold and rainy. My insulation still exists, but my hands and feet are always cold (just like my mom and sister). Not sure if drinking more Dr. Pepper would help ;-)
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: RhyssaFireheart on March 09, 2010, 08:26:04 AM Drinking more Dr Pepper cures anything. That's my story and I'm sticking with it. :awesome_for_real:
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sky on March 09, 2010, 08:34:34 AM By Dr Pepper, you two mean scotch, right?
Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Pennilenko on March 09, 2010, 09:20:24 AM By Dr Pepper, you two mean scotch, right? I learned recently that scotch is an amazing cure for strep throat, and by cure I mean drinking copious amounts. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: RhyssaFireheart on March 09, 2010, 09:28:07 AM Nope, I mean Dr Pepper. It's one of my "comfort foods" that I only allow myself to indulge in occasionally any more. :(
I'm a real lightweight when it comes to alcohol in general, I'm afraid. Spent over 7 years in college and never learned to drink beer of any sort; I still don't. I used to be able to do shots (tequila mostly) but that ended when I was out of college. Just never went for the hard liquors at all for whatever reason. People keep talking about scotch though, like it's this almost mystical drink. It's tempting but I have no knowledge and the expense of getting a good brand just doesn't encourage me to check it out. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Pennilenko on March 09, 2010, 09:30:27 AM Nope, I mean Dr Pepper. It's one of my "comfort foods" that I only allow myself to indulge in occasionally any more. :( I'm a real lightweight when it comes to alcohol in general, I'm afraid. Spent over 7 years in college and never learned to drink beer of any sort; I still don't. I used to be able to do shots (tequila mostly) but that ended when I was out of college. Just never went for the hard liquors at all for whatever reason. People keep talking about scotch though, like it's this almost mystical drink. It's tempting but I have no knowledge and the expense of getting a good brand just doesn't encourage me to check it out. Ehh, if you don't have any taste or tolerance for hard alcohol, scotch will either light you on fire and make your chest and stomach feel like you lit a nuclear bomb off or it will change you forever. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Sky on March 09, 2010, 11:13:28 AM Drinking Laphroaig totally spoiled me. Only my brandy gets touched, maybe an occasional rum. All other whisk(e)y tastes like crap now. I just picked it almost at random after discussion here, damned glad I did. If only I could afford to drink it more often...
Alcohol tolerance...mine used to be legendary. I honestly have no idea how I'm still alive. Title: Re: Like drinking soda? Think again... Post by: Cyrrex on March 09, 2010, 12:07:46 PM Alcohol tolerance...mine used to be legendary. I honestly have no idea how I'm still alive. Your aforementioned tolerance probably helped you to survive. So anyway, I'm not on a water only drinking thing for a while.. Except for my protein shakes, which I mix with milk. I've decided that I am going to go out of my way to avoid giving the corn industry in this country any more money than I have to. |