f13.net

Obligatory link:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/25/florida.seaworld.death/index.html?hpt=T2 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/25/florida.seaworld.death/index.html?hpt=T2)

You've all surely heard the story by now.  Hopefully this won't need to end up in Politics, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss.

My wife and kids went to SeaWorld in Orlando about a year ago.  I imagine we even saw this same whale.  I feel like a bit of a hypocrite...I really enjoyed the show, and all of SeaWorld for that matter.  They are amazing and beautiful creatures, and I won't deny that there is a selfish part of me that didn't think twice about the fact that these things are ultimately caged, wild animals who, in many cases, have been stolen from their natural habitats.  Whale prison, really.

So now something like this happens.  There are the usual idiots who think the animal is out of control and should be "put down".  There are the zookeepers and the people in charge of places like SW who make convincing claims that they are trying to conserve and do what is best for these animals, but of course that's when you ignore the fact that they are essentially making these animals dance and perform tricks for our enjoyment.  Not to mention all the moneyhats they make in the process.  Ultimately, I can't help thinking that we are abusing these animals to at least some extent.  And while I certainly feel sympathy for the lady that lost her life and for her friends and family, I can't help but think that this poor animal only did what wild animals can be expected to do:  the unexpected.  I hope common sense prevails and they free this animal (who, by the way, has killed twice in the past) back into the wild if at all possible. 

The selfish part of me would be sad if I didn't get to see these wonderful animals doing amazing things, but maybe it's about time we stop that nonsense.  It clearly isn't in the best intersts of the animals.

Free willy.

And get arrested again?  No thank you. 

That'll never happen.  Whenever there's money to be made, people will do it regardless of who or what it harms.  

Regardless, I don't think incident is that big of a deal (I don't mean in a "who cares that someone died" but in a "zomg think of the animals" kind of way).  First of all, one of the prior incidents associated with this whale involves a homeless man who snuck into the park and drowned, and the only evidence of the whale doing anything is pulling his pants off thinking he was a toy.  I don't think the whale should be put down, but people need to realize the risks of working with wild animals (even if they grew up in "captivity") and adjust accordingly.  Things like this will happen, you just need to be prepared.

I went to seaworld for the first time last month, and at the whale show they give the usual speech on how they "ask" the whales to do the tricks with positive reinforcement rather than forcing them to do it.  I tend to believe them since we sat for 25 minutes past when the show was meant to start because the whale decided to just swim around and not listen to anyone.  Then after the 25 minutes of waiting the show began.  

Is the "kill a human, you get put down" rule applied only to dogs? 

Also tigers.

I'm under no illusions that this will actually ever stop.  To me, it's just like the owner getting killed by the pet bear...ultimately, I just want people to give these animals the care and respect that they deserve and understand that shit like this will happen and that it isn't the animal's fault.  They are wild animals, behaving wildly.  I don't want to get all PETA about this.


I hate that rule, too,  but the circumstances are a little clearer when it comes to a dog - they are supposed to be domesticated animals, so you can't exactly let them out in the wild.  What else do you do with them that doesn't lead to another attack on a human or end up with the dog being euthanized?  Dunno.

I was under the impression that that rule was applied to any pet.  You just don't get bit by pet rabbits and ferrets often.  It also doesn't necessarily apply to wild animals because in most situations you aren't allowed to have wild animals as pets anyway without special permits. 

Why is this even a big deal? How many thousands of times more people have died driving buses and taxis, or working construction, or filming movies?

People die all the time. Occasionally, when people die in a bizarre way, the news like to whore it out.

Cause it's the lovable Shamu this time (or some derivative)!

(http://www.lasvegas-nv.com/showpics/siegfriedandroy.jpg)

On a serious note, my buddy's dog was destroyed because it bite someone wandering around the property (farm). Hearing that it made me wonder what would happen if Obama's dog would lay into someone. I doubt it would be put down, but who knows.

As for the whale business... wild animal in a cage and an aptly named one at that. But oddly, since its a "smart" whale and it has black and white patches like a cow, then it must not be dangerous. The god damn things have been know to hunt sharks ffs.

The only reason that SF Zoo tiger was shot was because she had actually escaped into the park, if she had killed someone who just fell into her exhibit she wouldn't have been killed. Dumbasses climb into zoo exhibits and get eaten not infrequently, and they don't normally kill the animals for reacting like animals.

Big cats in the wild that start eating people get shot because they tend to develop a taste for it and will keep going back for more.

We're so tasty and easy to catch.  :heart:

Totally putting aside bizarre things like this, Seaworld does a *lot* of good in protecting marine life and habitat.  They're a lot more than an amusement park.

Yes, that was a lot of fun around Lum's when that happened. The guy was a Richard Garriott stalker and although none of the news blurbs mention it now I remember that he had died because he stuck his dong in the whale's blowhole and it clamped down and dived.

 :ye_gods:

OOoh.. that was him? I remember that bit now that you mention it, but yeah, not a single mention of that.  Several of the stories I read also didn't mention he was a mentally disturbed transient, only that he was a 27-year-old trespassing after hours.

Free Willy.  :grin:

You are never really "safe" in the presence of a six-ton carnivore.

(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4803/1267194234574.jpg) (http://img246.imageshack.us/i/1267194234574.jpg/)

How can a killer whale live up to its name when it's technically not even a whale?

Because "Killer Dolphin" is not as sexy.

We don't need your logic around here messing up a perfectly good conversation.  :grin:

I disagree. I think it's a great name, much like naming a vicious doberman Muffin or some such.

Well, if we're not going to eat them, they might as well be useful for something  :grin:

I thought it was 'Killer Whale' because they killed whales.

fake edit:  amd wikipedia agrees with me:

Killer whales aren't whales?

Mind blown.

They are bad ass dolphins basically. Oh and baby killers considering they tend to prey on whale calves (in addition to their seal/fish diet) - once they chase and exhaust the mother and calf. Makes you gain perspective real quick.

I think it's a bit of a sad statement on society if we have progressed so far that animals being merciless is a forgotten fact.

I blame Disney... And civilization...

Nature is hardcore, yo.

Yes, we all forget that. Much like the whole "meat is animals" thing everyone likes to forget.

Just don't look like a seal and you're fine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyfOp_keW0A

Well that is god damned impressive.  There's another one called "Killer Whale vs. Sea Lion" from the same link that shows them crashing onto the shore and snatching the motherfuckers.  Kinda scary.

I like to think of it as 'Animals are meat', it helps me to stay morally certain.

I've heard at least two people state from personal experience, and at least one book mention it in passing, that there are people who will walk into Yellowstone and want to pet a Buffalo.

I mean yeah, they're not carnivorous, but that big sharp set of horns? The god knows how many hundreds of pounds of animal on top of unyielding hoofs? You do not want to go petting that. It can fuck you right up.

Same with morons walking up to strange dogs and petting them. Mine's trained and leashed in public, but I'll stop you cold if I can get the words out before you shove your grubby hand at my dog's face. If my dog was still the skittish, abused animal she used to be -- she'd bite you and run. Now she just jumps behind me and gives off the dog body language equivilant of "PSYCHO ALERT".

Wild animals are unpredictable, and even the best trained can surprise you -- and if it's a 600 pound animal with razor-sharp teeth, that surprise can be a very nasty one.

With this..it's not called a 'Killer Whale' because it's cuddly and harmless.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/3617342034_c7c96a34bf.jpg)
But it's so cute!

American Family Association: Stone To Death Killer Whale Who Killed Trainer (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/03/american-family-associati_n_484022.html)

I love the religious.

Do they have any idea how big this thing is? It's dorsal fins alone are 6 and a half feet long. It could probably bite the Great White Shark in Jaws in half.

Stoning would be as effective as arasol spray

Just gotta use a big enough stone.

(http://officespam.chattablogs.com/archives/aw-crap-mine-truck-big-rock-thumb.jpg)

 :ye_gods:  :why_so_serious:

What the AFA apparently doesn't know is that both Tilly the whale and curator Chuck Thompson asked Jesus for forgiveness, as is afforded in the New Testament.  Seems they have forgotten how their own religion works!

You don't stone an orca just because he eats someone named Jehovah!

The number of dumb fucking tourists who decide that the local dump is the best place to go see bears and bring nothing but their camera and those little fucking bells never ceases to amaze me.  I've been asked where to go to see wolves as well, considering the only wolves we have in the area are the monstrous fucking timber wolves that are the size of a small deer I should learn to indulge these questions and let Darwin work his magic.