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Title: Fuck Bank of America Post by: LK on February 03, 2010, 10:50:19 AM Can someone explain to me the differences between a personal line of credit and a business line of credit? Since my bank didn't...
I run a business on the side, personally owned, where I tried to open a Merchant Account two years ago in order to process credit card transactions. I had the business account opened but was turned down for the Merchant Account I needed (I use a third party for this). Instead, Bank of America offered me a $7000 limit credit card, to which I was like "Hell yes!" I've kept a low balance on the card for most of these last two years (<$1000), but since May the balance has gone up to $6000 due to using the card for large scale purchases. I've always been on time with my payments and typically pay more than is requested. I noticed today that my line of credit was reduced from $7k to $5.6k. Confused as to not having received a notification as to why, I called my bank to ask about it. Their first response after being redirected two times was to start collecting financial information on my business and ask about my records. I have a hard time reading people but I knew exactly where their concerns had shifted: I became a distrusted risk in the blink of an eye. So while my question was eventually answered ("Lack of personal credit, insufficient age of personal credit", which is horse shit to me since they qualified me for a $7k credit card with non-existent personal credit), the person I was talking to was hostile the entire time and went into Collections mode, despite my account being in good standing and not exceeding my credit limit. Also, apparently a business line of credit can't be used for non-business reasons? Damn, that would have been a nice note when getting the card. Lemme guess though, it was in the fine print or some other shit. I'm going to pay down the credit card, close my accounts, and change banks. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Ingmar on February 03, 2010, 10:57:42 AM Even a lot of people with years of good credit are getting their limits lowered over the last year or so - 2 years ago things were a bit different in the credit world.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Signe on February 03, 2010, 11:04:10 AM I shut down BOA and a couple of others who tried shenanigans with me with no regard whatsoever for my credit rating. I was pissed off with the Evil Banks and didn't care. It didn't seem to do much damage but I've heard of people's credit ratings being damaged pretty bad by simply closing accounts. A lot of people advise just to let the card sit and not to actually close it, but I was too frustrated with them.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: LK on February 03, 2010, 11:10:31 AM I'll have to close the business side, but I may be locked on the personal; a lot of stuff, including my primary employment's direct deposit, is tied to the personal account.
At least my business doesn't need credit to run. I've found good people who can handle all the proper paperwork and I just focus on the content creation and marketing, and collect checks. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Salamok on February 03, 2010, 11:11:18 AM Is your business a legal entity (like an LLC), or is it just an alias for you?
If it is just you DBA whatever your business name is I don't think there would be any difference between a personal line of credit and a business line of credit. If your business is actually a registered entity then it can have credit established on it's own merits. In this case a business line of credit may not even be personally guaranteed and is directly tied to the business. If you haven't PG'd anything you could in theory just walk away from the business with no negative impact on your personal credit score. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: LK on February 03, 2010, 11:13:05 AM What's PG?
It's registered as a sole proprietorship in the state of California. I only registered for tax reasons and to get a merchant account. I'll be paying taxes on it so it's "successful" by the IRS standards, but otherwise, meh. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Salamok on February 03, 2010, 11:27:52 AM What's PG? It's registered as a sole proprietorship in the state of California. I only registered for tax reasons and to get a merchant account. I'll be paying taxes on it so it's "successful" by the IRS standards, but otherwise, meh. IIRC Sole Prop is the same as a fictitious business/DBA, you should have filed for an LLC then after 3 years in business as an LLC banks start extending credit directly to the business. In addition to that perk it greatly limits your clients ability to sue you, they can still sue the company and if the damages are high you can fold it w/o risking your personal assets. It costs a little extra to set up and maintain (a few hundred $$) but well worth it if you are doing any significant amount of business. If you have a decent CPA doing your taxes and want to spend a few hundred more you could file for a c-corp/s-corp (I forget which) and get some additional tax benefits (like paying yourself a low salary then shelfing the rest of the business income till year end and paying yourself a dividend). Another possible HUGE perk is as an LLC (or any other non-sole prop business entity) you can have multiple owners, If you are a white male and have a female you fully trust (like a family member) you can assign 51% of the ownership to that person and bid on government contract jobs as a HUB (Historically Underutilized Business). PG = Personal Guarantee, this just means that you are personally cosigning something for your company. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: 01101010 on February 03, 2010, 11:29:06 AM Welcome to the new horizon, where small business is no longer the american way, but the american liability. Banks a few years ago were always willing to go with the big risks of small business, but with the upheaval in the markets, particularly banking industry, banks are fleeing the scene. You and your small business is no longer a viable resource to make money and thus, BOA gave you the finger as it took the pictures off your walls and rolled up your rug. It sucks all over, but small business owners are getting the shaft.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Salamok on February 03, 2010, 11:32:08 AM Welcome to the new horizon, where small business is no longer the american way, but the american liability. Banks a few years ago were always willing to go with the big risks of small business, but with the upheaval in the markets, particularly banking industry, banks are fleeing the scene. You and your small business is no longer a viable resource to make money and thus, BOA gave you the finger as it took the pictures off your walls and rolled up your rug. It sucks all over, but small business owners are getting the shaft. This may change this summer, once personal credit cards get their interest rates limited banks will probably be looking for a way to get back into the 20%+ interest rate game and after starving all the small businesses out there leasing/business credit may be the demographic that will pay it. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Viin on February 03, 2010, 11:32:15 AM Btw, you *can* change who your direct deposit goes to. Try a credit union. F*ck the big banks.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Soln on February 03, 2010, 11:47:42 AM "a business line of credit can't be used for non-business reasons" nope, it's a GAAP accounting issue. You can use it, but you have to claim the funds as "owner's drawings" if you use that credit as revenue. You can still hate BoA for other reasons :)
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: JWIV on February 03, 2010, 11:49:46 AM Btw, you *can* change who your direct deposit goes to. Try a credit union. F*ck the big banks. In the middle of doing that myself right now. My bank is raising their fees yet again (suntrust) and I have no god damn idea what supposed service they are providing me other than the privilege of paying them. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Signe on February 03, 2010, 12:50:05 PM Yes, I use a credit union myself. I was mostly referring to credit cards (especially BoA and Wells Fargo) in my previous post. I totally endorse credit unions - at least for now. They could get "iffy", too - who knows?
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Morat20 on February 03, 2010, 12:59:49 PM Yes, I use a credit union myself. I was mostly referring to credit cards (especially BoA and Wells Fargo) in my previous post. I totally endorse credit unions - at least for now. They could get "iffy", too - who knows? My wife has a credit card whose issuer is playing fun games like "Hey, they pay off the total balance monthly, but she spends up to the cap. Let's keep raising it until it carries a balance" and "Hey, let's start moving the fucking due date around so they miss payments and we can charge fees" and my personal favorite "Let's pick arbitrary days (and refuse to disclose them) in the billing cycle in which we will NOT count a large sum as 'the due payment' but an extra payment for the month prior, so we can hopefully get them to miss a payment so we can charge fees".We're switching that to a card issued through my credit union. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Lantyssa on February 03, 2010, 04:35:48 PM BoA is a joke. Dump them. Open up an account somewhere else and switch your direct deposit and other things to it. Preferably a credit union.
They (and other banks) have done a lot to change their rules in the last few years. One friend even had her account locked for depositing money because of their silly algorithms. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Merusk on February 03, 2010, 04:58:13 PM Btw, you *can* change who your direct deposit goes to. Try a credit union. F*ck the big banks. In the middle of doing that myself right now. My bank is raising their fees yet again (suntrust) and I have no god damn idea what supposed service they are providing me other than the privilege of paying them. You're going to see more of this, and possibly the death of free checking accounts as banks scramble to make up the ~$28 BILLION in fees they'll be losing this summer. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Selby on February 03, 2010, 05:09:46 PM All I have to say is that Discover pissed me off in the same way. I had a card through them for $2500. I get my statement with my once a year purchase on it, and notice they lowered me to a $500 limit. No warnings, no notifications, nothing. I have no idea when this happened either. I mean, a $500 limit is like "we don't even want to trust you with a credit card but we figure why not?" territory. I haven't even bothered to activate the new card because of this. I tried calling and did nothing but get the runaround and "don't you REALLY want to buy our personal account guarantee protection service for $10/mo?" line. So fuck them.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Johny Cee on February 03, 2010, 05:25:03 PM Can someone explain to me the differences between a personal line of credit and a business line of credit? Since my bank didn't... I run a business on the side, personally owned, where I tried to open a Merchant Account two years ago in order to process credit card transactions. I had the business account opened but was turned down for the Merchant Account I needed (I use a third party for this). Instead, Bank of America offered me a $7000 limit credit card, to which I was like "Hell yes!" I've kept a low balance on the card for most of these last two years (<$1000), but since May the balance has gone up to $6000 due to using the card for large scale purchases. I've always been on time with my payments and typically pay more than is requested. I noticed today that my line of credit was reduced from $7k to $5.6k. Confused as to not having received a notification as to why, I called my bank to ask about it. Their first response after being redirected two times was to start collecting financial information on my business and ask about my records. I have a hard time reading people but I knew exactly where their concerns had shifted: I became a distrusted risk in the blink of an eye. So while my question was eventually answered ("Lack of personal credit, insufficient age of personal credit", which is horse shit to me since they qualified me for a $7k credit card with non-existent personal credit), the person I was talking to was hostile the entire time and went into Collections mode, despite my account being in good standing and not exceeding my credit limit. Also, apparently a business line of credit can't be used for non-business reasons? Damn, that would have been a nice note when getting the card. Lemme guess though, it was in the fine print or some other shit. I'm going to pay down the credit card, close my accounts, and change banks. Umm. You never had a business line of credit, you had a credit card. And paying more than the minimum amount isn't being in good standing. Paying off the balance regularly is in good standing. Paying less than that is keeping it out of "sent to collections". Using a credit card to fund your business is usually a good sign of "this business is in trouble." A business line of credit will have set terms. Usually an interest rate at between -1.0% below to 2 or 3% above prime, will have a max, will be personally guaranteed by the owner, and will have the provision that it will be paid down to a zero balance at some point during a year. It will generally also be calleable to be paid off within 30 days. Typically, the rate and max will depend on the business finances/personal finances and on how the line is guaranteed. I've seen lines with prime -X% interest rates only in situations where the business owner has put up significant amounts of marketable collateral. For instance, a client had a $1 million business LOC secured by a couple million of publicly traded stock. It doesn't really matter that much for a non-incorporated sole proprietorship, but taking out distributions/draws in excess of equity is a "debt financed distribution". For LLCs, partnerships, and S-corps this is a taxable event. You basically had two big red flags here: 1. You're using a credit card for business financing and maintaining large balances on that card. This is often seen with small business that are having significant troubles. 2. You're using credit to take out personal distributions. Again, this is most often seen with people having significant personal financial troubles and are raiding their business assets for personal funds. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: LK on February 03, 2010, 07:03:41 PM Umm. You never had a business line of credit, you had a credit card. And paying more than the minimum amount isn't being in good standing. Paying off the balance regularly is in good standing. Paying less than that is keeping it out of "sent to collections". That goes against twenty years of advice I've gotten on how to build good credit. Fuck me... Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Johny Cee on February 03, 2010, 07:23:27 PM Umm. You never had a business line of credit, you had a credit card. And paying more than the minimum amount isn't being in good standing. Paying off the balance regularly is in good standing. Paying less than that is keeping it out of "sent to collections". That goes against twenty years of advice I've gotten on how to build good credit. Fuck me... It's personal credit versus business credit. If your business can't get a regular line, or can't purchase from suppliers on account, and you have to float an amount on a credit card just to conduct business? That doesn't look good. For small businesses, from the Small Business Administration website: - 2/3 are still in business after 2 years - 1/2 are still in business after 4 years That's why you aren't going to get business credit without it being secured and personally guaranteed. Especially if your business is operating under limited liability protection. As I said, I've had clients with net worth between 5 and 10 million that still have to put up personally owned securities as collateral against the business line that is a minor amount of their personal worth, in addition to a personal guarantee. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Johny Cee on February 03, 2010, 07:27:26 PM BoA is a joke. Dump them. Open up an account somewhere else and switch your direct deposit and other things to it. Preferably a credit union. They (and other banks) have done a lot to change their rules in the last few years. One friend even had her account locked for depositing money because of their silly algorithms. I've been remiss with my fraud CPE, but small and unusual deposits are usually the trial balloon for someone checking their stolen/fraudalently gained bank information before cleaning out the account. It used to be the MO for many of the email scams... Get someone's bank info, make a couple of small deposits to gain trust and make sure that the account is active, then start sucking out the cash. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Johny Cee on February 03, 2010, 07:42:52 PM Btw, you *can* change who your direct deposit goes to. Try a credit union. F*ck the big banks. In the middle of doing that myself right now. My bank is raising their fees yet again (suntrust) and I have no god damn idea what supposed service they are providing me other than the privilege of paying them. Um? Clearing and validating checks has a cost. Storing and keeping the bank's audit trail for cash deposits and withdrawals has a cost. Maintaining atms, store frontage, and tellers has a cost. It's a small cost when spread over all of the bank's customers, but it is still a cost. Automating tasks and moving to things like electronically generated and emailed statements has helped, but there is still a measurable cost to the bank to administer. From clerks and postage/courier costs to costs for secure financial servers and IT. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Johny Cee on February 03, 2010, 08:03:26 PM What's PG? It's registered as a sole proprietorship in the state of California. I only registered for tax reasons and to get a merchant account. I'll be paying taxes on it so it's "successful" by the IRS standards, but otherwise, meh. IIRC Sole Prop is the same as a fictitious business/DBA, you should have filed for an LLC then after 3 years in business as an LLC banks start extending credit directly to the business. In addition to that perk it greatly limits your clients ability to sue you, they can still sue the company and if the damages are high you can fold it w/o risking your personal assets. It costs a little extra to set up and maintain (a few hundred $$) but well worth it if you are doing any significant amount of business. If you have a decent CPA doing your taxes and want to spend a few hundred more you could file for a c-corp/s-corp (I forget which) and get some additional tax benefits (like paying yourself a low salary then shelfing the rest of the business income till year end and paying yourself a dividend). Another possible HUGE perk is as an LLC (or any other non-sole prop business entity) you can have multiple owners, If you are a white male and have a female you fully trust (like a family member) you can assign 51% of the ownership to that person and bid on government contract jobs as a HUB (Historically Underutilized Business). PG = Personal Guarantee, this just means that you are personally cosigning something for your company. For a side business that you are doing very small volume with, it's rarely cost effective to set up a limited liability entity. States are very keen on raising money through minimum taxes, not to mention various registration and licensing fees to keep your LLC/Corporation in existence with the Secretary of State. Especially since your liability for a side business would be mostly covered by a decent insurance policy. Obviously fees and paperwork requirements vary state to state. For instance: - NY has moved to a minimum tax based on gross receipts for all LLCs, Corps, unincorporated partnerships over 1 million in revenues, and S-corps. Sole member LLCs were exempt last year, but I haven't done a sole member LLC return this year so I don't know if there is a change. - NJ has a $100 annual registration fee for LLCs. (Which I had a NJ lawyer bungle for my biggest client, getting their LLC revoked for a number of years.......) - California has an $800 minimum tax on corps. That's not to mention that most limited liability forms require a separate tax return as opposed to just filing a Schedule C with your personal return, which you WILL have to pay someone to prepare. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Abagadro on February 03, 2010, 08:09:15 PM I thought you could use "check the box" filing to treat LLC income like partnership income and pass it all through onto your personal return.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Johny Cee on February 03, 2010, 08:28:44 PM I thought you could use "check the box" filing to treat LLC income like partnership income and pass it all through onto your personal return. Unless you elect to be treated as an association (i.e. a C-corporation) it is a flow through. LLCs with more than one member will still need to prepare a partnership tax return to generate the K-1 for the income pass-through. Single member LLCs file a schedule C with your personal 1040 to report business activity. The problem is that states have revenue issues. One of the favorite methods of increasing revenues without the negative popular reaction to tax increases is to increase fees. The last couple of years, in NYS, we've seen successive increases and changes to the fee structure for LLCs. You also have registration fees to keep your business entity in existence with the appropriate Secretary of State. In the last four years in New York, the required fees and forms to be filed for sole member LLCs has changed two or three times. I can't complain, because it's basically money in my pocket as people have to pay me at my hourly rate to sort out what's going on, but... Mostly I'm just glad that the bulk of my work is with C-corps and not-for-profits. Because the LLC form is still so new (historically), there are still huge differences state to state on minimum fees, reporting requirements, and the like. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Abagadro on February 03, 2010, 08:32:33 PM Heh, my dissertation is about the use of fees over tax increases to increase revenue (well really the citizen knowledge/opinion of this, but I look at how governments do it). They are indeed sneaky bastages.
EDIT: The goofy thing is that people generally support fees over taxes. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Johny Cee on February 03, 2010, 08:43:41 PM Heh, my dissertation is about the use of fees over tax increases to increase revenue (well really the citizen knowledge/opinion of this, but I look at how governments do it). They are indeed sneaky bastages. EDIT: The goofy thing is that people generally support fees over taxes. In the best case scenario, fees are voluntary. In the worst case scenario, it's the old Illusion of Choice strategy that parents and teachers have been using for generations. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: MahrinSkel on February 03, 2010, 09:23:33 PM They're all doing this kind of stunt. Capital One is my favorite, they charge you a fee for paying by phone, online, or walking into a branch and paying in person. If you pay by mailing a check with their payment coupon, they route it through so many middlemen that unless you FedEx Overnight it the day it arrives (not the next day), it won't be credited in time and you'll be charged a late fee.
Seriously, switch to a Credit Union. Can't explain why in detail without derailing this thread into Politics, it comes down to the fact that Credit Unions don't have the same financial incentives to screw their depositors (mostly because they're also the owners). For retail and small-scale commercial banking, they can do anything a bank can. --Dave Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Hoax on February 03, 2010, 11:30:09 PM If you are west coast you owe it to Wells Fargo of all the giant banks to bank with them. They are consistently the least shady of the big banks, they are like the Ford of American banking only better.
BofA is and always has been shit, they have dicked people over at various points Looooong before the current crises hit. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Oban on February 04, 2010, 04:46:14 AM If you are west coast you owe it to Wells Fargo of all the giant banks to bank with them. They are consistently the least shady of the big banks, they are like the Ford of American banking only better. Wells Fargo might be great for personal accounts, but for business accounts they are the most inept bank in California. They have lost documents, held wire transfers, credited accounts incorrectly, failed to transfer payments to corporate credit cards and their customer service is just abysmal. Heck, even when we closed all of our accounts with them, they sent my company a statement a year later showing they had somehow failed to transfer sixty thousand dollars to our new bank. Just a bunch of fucking clowns. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Signe on February 04, 2010, 05:59:20 AM Nothing but complaints about Wells Fargo here. They attempted to raise interest on a credit card we had closed almost a year earlier and then opened a credit card in our name without permission. It wasn't even a credit card although they called it that, it was some financing for furniture on a timed no interest deal. They were the first bank I ever closed an account with due to dodgy practices. The people they hire all seem completely incompetent, too. They still call us, more than two years later, and try to sell us their useless products even though the account has been closed. Now they use a third party firm to call us to hawk stuff we have no use for. We don't bother picking up calls from unknown numbers, but sometimes we look them up.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: ghost on February 04, 2010, 07:45:10 AM You will always be better off going with local banks or credit unions that have strong histories. Clearly the big bank era has hurt the USA in a lot of ways, and you'll never get customer service like you can at a local or regionally run bank.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Teleku on February 04, 2010, 09:33:21 AM Meh, I use Bank of America. All I need is a place that I can drop money into, and then go take the money back out of again. I don't do anything else, and never have to worry about fee's or anything. Plus they have ATM's absolutely everywhere, which cuts down on fee costs of withdrawing from different banks ATM's.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: MrHat on February 04, 2010, 09:35:09 AM On a lighter note: I read the title as The American Fuck Bank.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Signe on February 04, 2010, 10:27:11 AM You should have your occipital lobe checked out!
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Tale on February 04, 2010, 11:26:00 AM On a lighter note: I read the title as The American Fuck Bank. Tale's bailout joke goes here. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: ShenMolo on February 04, 2010, 05:34:06 PM Similar thing happened to me last summer with BoA.
I had done business with BoA going back 15 years, both personal and business accounts. I had 11 accounts total with BoA: 3 Personal Checking Accounts 2 Personal Savings Accounts 3 Personal Credit Cards 2 Business Credit Cards 1 Home Equity Line of Credit I had $0 balance on two of the personal credit cards and less than $2000 on one of them. My credit score has been over 750 for years. With no warning, BoA canceled the three personal credit cards. Just closed them down. I was on a business trip to Nashville when the BoA card I use for reimbursable expenses started getting declined for gas/food/lodging. After the second time of using a debit card to pay for stuff, I called BoA to find out the news. No warning, just credit cards closed. I called USAA and opened a $10,000 credit card that afternoon. Now I had been thinking about firing BoA for years because of shitty customer service. But with 11 accounts it was going to be some work. After this I started the process of switching over to a new bank. It took a couple of months, but now everything is closed except the Line of Credit. BoA is shit and I preach it whenever I get a chance. I switched to USAA. They are the polar opposite of BoA. If you or your parents were ever in the military you can use USAA. They exist to serve their members, much like a credit union. I deposit money by scanning checks on my printer. They reimburse ATM fees. They have live people answer the phone. They pay you back a portion of their profits from insurance premiums every year. I am very happy with them and have begun consolidating savings, checking, insurance and brokerage accounts at USAA. Fuck Bank of America. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: ezrast on February 04, 2010, 08:49:15 PM I read the title as The American Fuck Bank. Fuck Bank of America. Gah, now I can't stop doing it!Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Samwise on February 04, 2010, 09:01:39 PM I've been thinking about getting my first credit card with USAA since I figure they're far less likely to fuck me than a normal credit card company. I take it you'd recommend that, Shen?
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Selby on February 04, 2010, 10:21:42 PM I take it you'd recommend that, Shen? I would. I do almost all of my banking through them now. Fuck BoA and everyone else pretty much. Once you've used USAA, you'll wonder why you never did before. That's on all of their services, insurance, banking, etc. Whenever I needed their insurance to not dick me over on a claim, the other driver's company rolled over and played dead for them and gave it all up. No fighting, no court battles and lawyers to get the companies to do what they should.Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Krakrok on February 04, 2010, 11:05:50 PM I have two $30k BoA business credit cards. They are morons. They call at least once a week to try and sell me the free credit report credit protection scam.
It takes an hour to send a wire transfer at Wells Fargo while I sit there and watch them try to fill out the giant form with a pen. In front of their computer. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Samwise on February 05, 2010, 12:47:14 AM I have two $30k BoA business credit cards. They are morons. They call at least once a week to try and sell me the free credit report credit protection scam They stopped doing that when I asked if I had to close my account to make them stop calling me. :awesome_for_real: The big drawback for me of doing all my banking with USAA would be not having free ATMs all over the place. That's why I moved to BofA in the first place -- I got tired of paying to use their ATMs a couple times a week. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Oban on February 05, 2010, 03:52:20 AM It takes an hour to send a wire transfer at Wells Fargo while I sit there and watch them try to fill out the giant form with a pen. In front of their computer. I forgot about this, thank you for making me remember and then laugh out loud. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Merusk on February 05, 2010, 03:59:17 AM I :heart: having USAA just for the insurance. I keep pondering making the move there for my 2nd checking account, but I don't. I feel compelled to bank with a locak branch on at least one account.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Nazrat on February 05, 2010, 06:09:11 AM I have two $30k BoA business credit cards. They are morons. They call at least once a week to try and sell me the free credit report credit protection scam They stopped doing that when I asked if I had to close my account to make them stop calling me. :awesome_for_real: The big drawback for me of doing all my banking with USAA would be not having free ATMs all over the place. That's why I moved to BofA in the first place -- I got tired of paying to use their ATMs a couple times a week. I am also a big USAA supporter. USAA refunds ATM charges at the end of the month. You still get to use the other bank's ATM but don't have to put up with their bad practices. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: ghost on February 05, 2010, 09:57:56 AM I had a waiter rack up $2500 bucks worth of charges on my debit card after he stole it and USAA just deducted all the charges without any hassle. I love USAA, however I do have the luxury of having their main office locally.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Strazos on February 05, 2010, 11:06:46 AM Good to hear about the USAA bits. Apparently I am allowed to use them, and also SDFCU...
But quite frankly I don't know shit about banking, and my stupid bank works well enough for me as-is, so I haven't switched...yet. I might once I move overseas. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: ShenMolo on February 05, 2010, 11:45:40 AM I have two $30k BoA business credit cards. They are morons. They call at least once a week to try and sell me the free credit report credit protection scam They stopped doing that when I asked if I had to close my account to make them stop calling me. :awesome_for_real: The big drawback for me of doing all my banking with USAA would be not having free ATMs all over the place. That's why I moved to BofA in the first place -- I got tired of paying to use their ATMs a couple times a week. As Nazrat said, they reimburse ATM fees charged by other institutions, so you can use an ATM wherever. You can also get cash without an ATM charge from most grocery stores. Just buy a drink or something and get cash back instead of paying the $2 ATM fee. What I do is just get $100 extra in cash out every time I go grocery shopping and use cash for everything instead of debit/credit cards. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Viin on February 05, 2010, 01:45:28 PM But the points, man, you are missing out on the points!
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Merusk on February 05, 2010, 02:39:06 PM Those points are just there so the bank and Visa can fuck the business you're using your debit-as-credit at. Look up info on how Visa makes money. If you're doing it at a small business instead of debit or cash, you're not helping.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Viin on February 05, 2010, 03:09:23 PM Actually, I do avoid using my Starwood AMEX at small places and use my checking account Visa instead. But if it's a bigger company (say, starbux) they are fair game.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Quinton on February 05, 2010, 06:53:48 PM This reminds me how much I hate BofA. I really should change banks.
When I was buying my house last fall, I ended up needing to wire money into escrow from BofA and from Schwab. With Schwab, I filled out a wire transfer request online, spoke with a customer service rep on the phone to verify, and was done in 5 minutes. BofA could not initiate a wire transfer online or by phone. I had to drive to an actual BofA bank, wait in line, fill out a paper form, wait in line, wait for the teller to find another teller to help with the wire form, wait for them to call somewhere else for approval, wait for them to get a signature card sent back from the other branch, etc, etc -- took almost 45 minutes *and* the wire didn't happen until the next business day. The only thing about BofA that does not give me the rage is that their online billpay stuff is free and works (they'll even send a check to people they can't pay electronically -- that's how I paid my rent for years). Everything else about them suuuucks. Any suggestions for less crappy financial institutions that have a presence in the SF bay area? Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Signe on February 05, 2010, 07:39:47 PM The only thing about BofA that does not give me the rage is that their online billpay stuff is free and works (they'll even send a check to people they can't pay electronically -- that's how I paid my rent for years). Everything else about them suuuucks. My credit union does exactly this, too. For free. Maybe you could find something like that in your area. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Quinton on February 05, 2010, 07:55:44 PM Yeah, I know that online billpay is not unique to bofa -- it'd definitely be a requirement for whatever bank I would switch to. I was just pointing it out as the only thing about them that doesn't piss me off.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Krakrok on February 05, 2010, 09:36:16 PM Schwab claims to have online bill pay and the ATM cash withdrawal fee rebate. Sounds like you already have an account with them anyway. I've never used either feature.
I use Schwab's 2% back card so if Visa is taking 3% from the merchant at least they are giving 2% of it back to me. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Quinton on February 05, 2010, 10:25:00 PM Hm! I've always just used Schwab for investment stuff (they were downstairs from Be when I got stock grants way back when, so they were convenient). I'll have to check out their other features.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: ShenMolo on February 06, 2010, 03:32:17 AM But the points, man, you are missing out on the points! My USAA Credit & Debit Cards both have Reward Points :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: TheWalrus on February 06, 2010, 11:45:41 AM I hit the jackpot. I use USAA for all my insurance and Navy Federal for my actual banking. I've never appreciated them more than with the recent horse shit going around.
I will contribute to the Fuck BOA sentiment since my only dealing with them was incredibly shitty. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Signe on February 06, 2010, 02:42:14 PM I hit the jackpot. I use USAA for all my insurance and Navy Federal for my actual banking. I've never appreciated them more than with the recent horse shit going around. I will contribute to the Fuck BOA sentiment since my only dealing with them was incredibly shitty. I've only used them for a credit card and based on their shenanigans, I'd never even consider them to be my bank. We haven't used credit cards for anything in the last two years, except the bank (credit union, to be precise) credit card on very rare occasions. Paying cash or debit and using PayPal for nearly everything has made me feel better, too. I stopped worrying about credit ratings when they started fucking with me because I could no longer see the point. They can ruin all that on the whim of a nasty employee. To continue dealing with these institutions would just make me nuts, not them. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: TheWalrus on February 06, 2010, 03:36:28 PM Navy Fed messed with you or BOA? Be real surprised if you meant NFCU cause I've never had anything but awesome with them.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Soln on February 06, 2010, 05:07:17 PM debated on sharing this... day after this thread started I got a letter from BoA saying one of my CC had been compromised. They thoughtfully sent me a new CC *before* they sent the explanatory letter. :oh_i_see:
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Signe on February 06, 2010, 06:43:13 PM Navy Fed messed with you or BOA? Be real surprised if you meant NFCU cause I've never had anything but awesome with them. BoA, of course. Sorry, I thought I was being more obvious. I've never even heard of those other ones. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: TheWalrus on February 06, 2010, 08:26:00 PM Oh good deal.
I've always been amused the fact that Navy Fed sends me a thank you letter when I pay off a loan, and also includes a new loan app. Giggidy. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Sky on February 08, 2010, 06:52:08 AM One of my idle cards just cancelled the card and sent me an entirely new card. Different terms, different card. The terms are awful, too. I guess they're finally getting tired of me not using their card.
I use an amazon card for points, only way I can afford new music and books. Locally I use cash unless the business owner is a dick. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Signe on February 08, 2010, 07:41:44 AM There are local shops where you are that won't accept cash? That's just daft.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Sky on February 08, 2010, 08:03:18 AM There are local shops where you are that won't accept cash? That's just daft. They accept cash, but if the owner is a dick I don't use it. I'd still prefer to give them my business, because it's a dick in the community, rather than a dick in Bentonville.Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: MisterNoisy on February 25, 2010, 07:10:12 PM Semi-Necro:
Chase just informed me that they charge interest at the beginning of the month, but don't apply it until the billing cycle rolls over. I only discovered this because I'd just got finished with my annual account zeroing, and not a week later, I'd found a $20 charge on that account. I called them asking what the charge was for, and they explained it and I promptly closed that shit out. The comical part is that they said 'you've been a customer for 10 years - are you sure you want to cancel?' Quite sure thanks - your new policies suck. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Signe on February 26, 2010, 05:50:21 AM My sister has paid off all her credit card debt and she used to put most of her bills in a pile for a couple of months before she opened them. For some reason she opened one as soon as it came in and there was a $60.00 charge on it. Since she hadn't used that card for a couple of years or so, she called them and they told her it was a new annual fee. She's had that card for well over a decade and she closed it without a thought. I have to wonder just how many people are doing this lately and how far the banks will go to make the customers they have left pay for it.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Selby on February 26, 2010, 06:29:53 AM I have to wonder just how many people are doing this lately and how far the banks will go to make the customers they have left pay for it. Banks don't give a fuck about people like her and me. We're the ones who have cards and maybe use them once in a blue moon. We aren't making them any money (in fact we are COSTING them money) so if they piss us off and make us go away, they don't care. Like I said, Discover lowered my limit from $2500 to $500 sometime in the last year without a word, so they are one step away from getting canceled too.Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: LK on February 26, 2010, 05:44:35 PM Bank of America is trying to put a happy face on all the fees that they charge.
http://factsaboutfees.bankofamerica.com/ My favorite: (http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc251/Lorekeep/BULLSHIT01.jpg) BULLSHIT. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Merusk on February 26, 2010, 08:06:45 PM That's the industry standard answer. My wife has worked for 5/3, US Bank, Citibank and Firstar. They all gave that exact same answer with nearly that exact same wording.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: brellium on February 27, 2010, 09:35:18 AM Bank of America is trying to put a happy face on all the fees that they charge. Overlimit/Overdraft fees are going away anyways with the optout requirements being put in effect later this year.http://factsaboutfees.bankofamerica.com/ My favorite: (http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc251/Lorekeep/BULLSHIT01.jpg) BULLSHIT. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: slog on February 27, 2010, 09:55:43 AM Bank of America is trying to put a happy face on all the fees that they charge. Overlimit/Overdraft fees are going away anyways with the optout requirements being put in effect later this year.http://factsaboutfees.bankofamerica.com/ My favorite: (http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc251/Lorekeep/BULLSHIT01.jpg) BULLSHIT. This isn't one of those fees. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: brellium on February 27, 2010, 11:44:59 PM This isn't one of those fees. It is one of those fees, the image in question is the "talk off" for the method Bank of America uses for posting withdraws to a checking account. With the new changes to be implemented by the OCC/Fed, requiring an "opt in" for an account to be assessed overdraft fees taking place later this year, banks are responding by either doing away with overdraft charges or the practice of ordering deposit account draws based on the amount of the draw. stupid affect/effect Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: HaemishM on February 28, 2010, 09:53:56 AM They aren't doing away with the fees. They are requiring you to opt in on overdraft "protection." Meaning if you overdraft when using an ATM or a debit card, they won't let the transaction go through unlike now, where they let it go through and charge you a ridiculously large fee on top of it. If you opt-in, it's business as usual, which is why the banks are trying hard to convince folks to opt-in.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: slog on February 28, 2010, 10:53:15 AM In other words, If you have 1000 dollars in the bank, and write checks for 900, 200, 200, 200 and 200 dollars, you are getting 4 overdraft fees, just like you did before.
BOA explains it better than I do Quote from: 'Those_BOA_FUCKERS_THAT_TOOK_TARP' "Opting-Out" You can ask us not to authorize or pay a transaction unless you have enough available funds in your account at the time to cover the transaction. This is often called "opting-out." Your opt-out request applies to all transactions – debit card purchases, atm withdrawals, checks and other withdrawals, transfers and payments. If you opt-out, please note that your account may still become overdrawn and you may incur overdrafts, overdraft item fees and nsf: returned item fees. Here are some common examples of how opting-out can affect your transactions. * You want to use your debit card for a purchase or to make an atm withdrawal; however, at the time you initiate the transaction, you do not have enough available funds in your account. In this case, we do not authorize the transaction; we decline it. * You have written a check for payment; however, at the time we receive the check, you do not have enough available funds in your account. In this case, we return the check unpaid and charge you an nsf: returned item fee. * You have preauthorized electronic payments from your checking account, such as your insurance premium, mortgage payment or utility payment. However, at the time of a preauthorized payment, you do not have enough available funds in your checking account. In this case, we decline the transaction and charge you an nsf: returned item fee. For some situations, you may still get overdrafts and overdraft item fees, even though you opted-out. Here are some common examples. * You use your debit card to pay for gas. If your available balance is $25 and a gas station requests an authorization of $1, the transaction will be authorized. However, if your actual purchase is $45, this will result in a negative $20 balance and we charge you an overdraft item fee. * You want to use your debit card to purchase a gift. The merchant asks us to authorize the purchase amount, which we do because at that time you have enough available funds in your account to cover the purchase. Before the merchant sends the transaction to us for payment, other payments or withdrawals come through. So, when we receive the transaction for payment, you do not have sufficient funds in your account to cover the debit card purchase. In this case, we pay the debit card purchase and charge you an overdraft item fee. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Merusk on February 28, 2010, 12:05:35 PM The preauthorized withdraws are where folks are really going to get fucked if they opt-out. I can see those NSF:returned item fees doubling or more within the next few months. From talking to people, I get that they forget about automatic withdrawals for their utilities and other stuff all the time, or forget what date they'll be coming out.
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: brellium on February 28, 2010, 01:50:18 PM http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/your-money/credit-and-debit-cards/23credit.html
My opinion still stands, the opt in requirement depending on the fines the OCC charges will likely make overdraft fees go away. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: slog on February 28, 2010, 04:54:07 PM http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/your-money/credit-and-debit-cards/23credit.html My opinion still stands, the opt in requirement depending on the fines the OCC charges will likely make overdraft fees go away. You are misunderstanding. That article is only talking about Debit card and Credit card purchases, the jumps to other things without giving the bigger picture. It's also written by a moron. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Stormwaltz on March 11, 2010, 08:42:42 AM Not just fuckers; fuckers that will steal your parrot (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8561707.stm).
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Lantyssa on March 11, 2010, 12:39:15 PM "We're really tired of hearing from this woman whose home we incorrectly seized. What a total bitch."
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Sheepherder on March 11, 2010, 01:00:48 PM So uhh... criminal charges?
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Oban on March 15, 2010, 11:04:27 AM Who says Wells Fargo lacks the personal touch?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/12/BASQ1CEJD6.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/12/BASQ1CEJD6.DTL) Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: schild on March 15, 2010, 05:22:03 PM Who says Wells Fargo lacks the personal touch? More like a singular manager. :\http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/12/BASQ1CEJD6.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/12/BASQ1CEJD6.DTL) Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Krakrok on March 15, 2010, 10:02:08 PM Schwab called up a couple weeks ago and informed me that VISA told them my credit card had been compromised and was currently being used in another state.
Once someone gets a credit card number they do a "tasting" of ~$1 to see if it works and then go try to buy a bunch of big stuff. Or so Schwab claims anyway. They claimed the big purchases were denied. I haven't seen anything show up on the statement but they closed the card and sent me a new one. The interesting thing about the story is that they list a "undisclosed third party" as the source of the credit card number leak. And VISA is the one that informed them? I want to know who the "undisclosed third party" is. Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Furiously on March 16, 2010, 12:44:15 AM Anyone you have used your credit card with. I've had a waiter at a restaurant steal ours and buy an iphone. (Charge didn't go through).
Title: Re: Fuck Bank of America Post by: Krakrok on March 16, 2010, 02:59:30 PM Anyone you have used your credit card with. I've had a waiter at a restaurant steal ours and buy an iphone. (Charge didn't go through). Right. "undisclosed third party" sounds like a big customer database that was compromised though. Verses something like "unknown third party". |