f13.net

Okay, I read about this the other day and the guy who did it finally set up a blog with some pictures.

Apparently Sporticus (his clever new blog moniker) wanted to get in shape but couldn't kick the nightly World of Warcraft habit. Solution? Attach the PC to the treadmill. Voila!

http://fitgamer.blogspot.com/ (http://fitgamer.blogspot.com/)

Catass your way to weight loss?

I smell infomercial.

Seriously. I first spotted the info over on Dubious Quality, where the letter that was sent in was posted.



http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2005/01/evil-genius-special-achievement-award.html (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2005/01/evil-genius-special-achievement-award.html)

First lame "treadmill" jokester gets a boot in the ass.

This joke tells itself...

That pretty much says all there needs to be said about the level of interactivity in MMOG's.

I would love to set something like this up- it would work for Xbox games too, as long as you were going slow enough to still see the screen.  It is a great multi-tasker.

Now, if only I weren't so lazy, I would try to get something like this put together =P

I have a way you can play WoW (or any other MMOG) and get in shape:

1) Load up your chosen MMOG
2) Login
3) Every time the game sucks, logoff and go run a mile
4) Resume playing, repeating steps 1-3 as appropriate
5) Drink water as needed but do not eat until at least 3 hours after running

Given the state of the MMOG genre, you'll be ready for the Boston marathon before you hit level 40.

Bring the noise.
Cheers............

I hear there's a late night spot that's open now. Some Basedow guy just up and disappeared.

Lmao, I was going to use that but...

EDIT: Damn, I'm still laughing. Fucking cold, man.

I did this with an eloton SimCycle. The SimCycle acts like a joystick throttle so you have to pedal to move forward. I hacked togather a joystick->keyboard converter and used it in DAOC. Suffice to say it worked like crap because you couldn't go backwards and going forwards was jerky. I never got the joystick->keyboard converter to hold down the virtual UP arrow key correctly for smooth movement.

The only other game I remember trying it with was Pod Racer and it actually worked pretty well for that. By the end of the podrace you were fucking dead. If you slowed down during the race your pod would slow down and you would lose. It did make for some interesting handbrake+gliding turns though.

It also plays weird tricks with your motorskills. Think of it as like trying to move your hands in a circle in opposite directions in front of your face (try it). Except you're trying to pedal and move the mouse at the same time.


Suffice to say it was easier (better?) to NOT multitask. Play the game and then ride the bike. Don't do both at the same time.

Edit: spelling.

Step 5 could be a problem there, seeing as how most people are so addictid to their MMOG that they would spend SOO much time looping through steps 3 and 4, that they would NEVER be away from the MMOG long enough to actually do the eat part of step 5, and would simply starve to death.
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Perhaps this isnt such a bad idea after all.

I can't believe no one but me commented on the Basedow thing. Do you people not know who Basedow is? He's either much loved or much hated, but never ignored. You should either be laughing at schild's joke, or chiding him for it.

It was funny and it was tasteless. Basedow was also a "fitness celebrity" and as such does not count as a real person so much as a steroid-popping construct.

Did someone say construct?

(http://rpgvaultarchive.ign.com/features/reviews/images/PT07_a.jpg)

Ah Bioware and Planescape: Torment.   Lost, but not forgotten.

I've definately thought about hooking up an exercise mechanism to my computer more than once.  I weigh 225ish - nor morbidly obese but a good 35 lbs above my ideal weight.  Maybe in the far flung future you can get your brain put in a jar to cut out the body entirely for maintenance free gaming, but in the meanwhile we've got a body that needs exercise whether we like it or not.   The idea of a exercise mechanism attached to the computer sounds good - the body needs the exercise, the mind needs the mental stimulation.   Put those two together and you've a recipe to be superman.    

The actual execution, however, is a PITA.  You can't easily put together something like that on your own.   There's a certain matter of balance and needing your hands free and able to comfortably reach the keyboard that immediately disqualifies most exercise equipment.  A Treadmill is the best I came up with, and it turns out those things are really too big and bulky to get in front of a computer.

Some products have been introduced lately with this in mind.   I'm sure we brought up Powergrid Fitness (http://www.powergridfitness.com/) before, probably last time we were watching E3 coverage.   The next time I have a thousand dollars laying around to spend, I might just go for that.   (After all, I spent $1000 on this nordictrack I've got in the garage.     I hope powergrid allows installment payments.)

Jesus Christ, I thought this thread was a joke.

Take a fucking walk people.

It isn't hard.

That's doable, but it comes down to the same problem you have with exercise in general: Who has the time?  Simply taking a walk takes time and isn't all that mentally stimulating.   Running down to the garage and running on the treadmill for half an hour three times a week is probably why I lost 5 lbs lately, but it ends up costing me an hour of time I'd rather spend annoying you fine fellows.  

Take nearly anyone besides me and you can factor a job and family into that.   It then comes down to a matter of them having to make a choice:   Assign themselves more work in the form of physical exercise or get some play at all during the day?   For many it's a matter of priority: they figure they've got better things to do than exercise... right up until their first heart attack.  

Yet, I can't argue that there isn't a definate improvement in quality of life all around if you take the time to exercise.   I'm not going to argue it's really time wasted, so much as it may FEEL like time wasted to somebody whose already mired down in a daily routine.   The increased energy alone will probably create time.

I didn't know who he was until this thread but I don't have cable so I haven't seen any of his infomercials.

That's why you need to get in the mindset that exercise = fun.

Like blowing holes in my scrotum with a nailgun.

If I can convince myself exercising is fun, I can convince myself Horizons or some equally shitty game is fun. I don't want to go down that road.

No. It was serious in a "how much of a gaming addict is this guy" kind of way. Myself, I prefer to do yoga everyday and sometimes run in the warmer months of Pennsylvania. I'm also going to check out Yourself! Fitness just for shits and giggles. Looks like a pretty neat "game".

Let us know.  Personally, I've been rolling an idea around in my mind of a system that adjust the speed of a treadmill w/ regard to what you're doing in a game.  Could also work for resistance on a stairmaster, or perhaps one of those crazy shocky things.

C'mon now...Didn't you ride a bike as kid? Or skate? Didn't you ever play sports or go to a Karate class? There's bound to be something "athletic" that you wouldn't qualify as boring.

Either way, it shouldn't really matter. Whether it's fun or not shouldn't be top priority. Human beings are built to move. It's necessary. Stop trying to find ways for the excercise to cater to you. You have to cater yourself to the excercise, or else it will never work.

Hiking, to me, is fun; I can put in 20 miles and hardly notice it.  But then again I run every day too and I think that's, maybe not fun, but certainly a more enjoyable activity than watching sit-coms or reality TV.

Martial Arts can be very fun but it can take a lot of time and commitment, hence I haven't really practiced it for 8 years.  Fencing, when I was doing that, was a blast and actually a reasonably good additional work out.  I'm seriously considering picking it up once or twice a week again.

I can even get into those stupid rowing machines with the game on them.  Where you have to out row the shark or beat the other guy.  Good stuff.

Not all exercise is pushups and situps man.  Gym class couldn't have scarred you that bad, could it?

Not at all.  To become a physical "superman", your mind has to be focused on the physical activity at hand and you have to do resistance work.  Doing what this guy is attempting will just burn calories.  He might end up being a weak, skinny geek instead of a weak, fat geek, but in the end, he'll still be a weak geek and no "superman".

What the fuck?  On days when I'm not lifting weights, I often go for an hour long walk along the river, which is a few blocks from my house.  It's a very nice activity.  I burn some calories, I get out in nature, and I leave behind the sounds of the city.  My mind is, actually, stimuated the whole time.  It gives me an hour of quiet time to reflect what is going on and plan some things out.  The experience is very refreshing.



If you watch any television on a regular basis, you have no excuse for not exercising, especially because of "lack of time".



Ya think?  If you only consider exercise sitting on a treadmill for 30+ minutes, I can understand why you dread it.  I look forward to my exercise time; I relish it.  I fucking hate people who don't - people who waste my time by sitting on benches/equipment while watching TV, or chatting with others, or chatting on cell phones, or just "resting".  My time in the gym is sacred, and it really is my time.  

I work with people 10+ years my younger who whine about aches and pains all the time.  They will also have to take all sorts of breaks during their work, whereas I am comfortable and usually take none.

If that works for you Arnold, that's great, but not all of us have the personal identity that's comfortable with really mentally "moving into" the gym routine.   Not all of us really want to bulked up so much as simply to be healthy - the skinny geek idea works, being all muscle-bound just doesn't match everyone's self-image.   Going down to the gym and using those facilities, factoring in travel time and whatnot, costs an extra hour (your milage may vary depending on your distance from the gym).   That kind of time investment is out of the acceptable limits of people whose self-image is fixated elsewhere, jobs and familys largely factoring into that.

To say that self-images are all adjustable and everybody can take to exercising is like saying that a specific game is fun for everybody.   Different strokes (no pun intended) for different folks.

I will agree with you that turning off the TV - or multitasking TV watching with exercise - is a great way to produce time.  However, again, some people live for the TV.  The same could be said for gaming.    So, combine gaming with exercise and we're actually agreeing with the topic origin here.

Translation: You are a fat, lazy bastard.

What the fuck are you talking about?  You either want to get in shape, or you don't.  You make time for what's important.

I spent the last year thinking I wanted to get in shape and not doing anything about it.  Now I've got stuff coming up in the next six months that requires being in pretty good shape, so I'm going to the gym.

On a side note, my leg strength has gone down the crapper.  Really down the crapper.  Any suggestions?  Any opinions about weight vests?

If it's doable, bike to and from the gym.  I did 14 miles a day this summer while studying for the bar (round trip to/from class) and it made a big difference.  I'm not sure if it's because I know how to use the gears well or because real bike > gym machine.

Replying to trolls, now that's bad for one's health.

But yes, astute observation.

I confess, I like gaming a lot more than exercise, but exercise gots to be done if I want to, you know, live.

1200 calories a day; live to 180; for teh win.

See, that's a terrible bit of misinformation that gets passed around the general population and used as an excuse not to work out.  You are not just going to walk into a gym and get bulked up.  Bulking up, without drugs, takes lots of planning, work, time, and dedication.  Normal people who want to be healthy don't turn into musclebound freaks of nature simply by working out casually.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is that being skinny does not necessarily mean one is weak.  Training for strength is different from training for bulk, although there is some overlap in the two.  Lots of "bulked up" guys are all show and weak.



Using the word "investment" is right on.  I view exercising as an investment in my health and my self.  An hour a day is not much of a price to pay for the rewards you reap.  And once those rewards start coming in, it doesn't feel like a chore, but something to look forward to.



That's absurd.  The human body is meant to move and do work.  If the human body isn't used what it was meant for, it starts falling apart.  If your ancestors took your point of you, they would have starved and you would have never been born.  Obviously, exercising worked for them.



Oh yeah, I never dsiputed that the guy wouldn't burn calories and lose weight.  What I had issue with was the use of the word "superman".  Like anything else, you cannot achieve physical excellence without focus.

Deadlift.

I think it's best to just ignore Geldon. To even think this shit is debatable shows that he likes being contrary just for the hell of it.

I tried to be nice once, but to put it plain and simple, Geldon: You're an asshole in the truest sense. Pretty much for the same reasons as Hyu and the Furry.

I've always been confused about the no time to exercise argument. Maybe I'm just unusual but when I'm in shape I tend to sleep for 6-7 hours and feel fine after that. When I get lazy and out of shape I tend to need 8-9 hours before feeling fully rested.

I guess in the interim before you get yourself back in shape the time argument holds up but it still just seems like a weak excuse.

I also agree with UD.  The energy I get from being fit allows me to be more productive during my waking hours giving me even more time to exercise.  It's a cyclic process.

Everyone that reads these forums has time to exercise.  Saying otherwise would just be an excuse.

I exercise daily. Hell, sometimes I even exorcise, just for shits and giggles.

The start of a trend? (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/fun.games/01/09/gadget.show.fitness.ap/index.html)

My biggest complaint about exercising is that it is incredibly boring. If I watch my TiVo or play a video game while doing it, I am much more likely to get it done. Unfortunately I don't have the room in my apartment for a treadmilll or exercise bike.

I am also lazy as all get out, but if my mind is occupied with something besides the thought of "GODDAMN this is boring", there is a better chance for me to keep at it.

More likely, the start of a fad.  Exercise junk gets used for the intended purpose for 2 weeks and then becomes just junk.

An interesting line of debate going here. For all those looking at the "but I have a family" angle, take em with you. Bring the whole family to the gym. We all go together. Once your family members starts getting compliments on the way they are looking now they'll be hooked, plus a fit and healthy partner can create more fire in the bedroom...

 If  you don't want to leave your gaming behind then grab a handheld and hit the recumbent bike or the elliptical, a fair number of gyms won't mind(at least the RWJ:Wellness Center doesn't). A number of the newer gyms also have satellite tv with local controls that you can jack into if you bring your own headphones.  

If you are looking to actually develop a workout stick to it for a month, it takes around 21 days for an activity to become a habit.  And in an era of chip, soda and tv induced health ailements, you just might end up adding a few years to your life.

I think my co-workers would figure out that I'm not working if I started busting out power squats here in my cubicle. Maybe your office is different.

Bring the noise.
Cheers............

That was funny. Thanks. :)

At my old job before they laid off 70% of the company, we had a contractor who wore nothing but black leather, including gloves.  He refused to remove the gloves, even while working.  Sometimes during conversations with women, he would drop to the floor and do push-ups, while continuing to speak to them.   He lasted about 2 weeks, until they could document how to fire him.  But oh, the stories he left us, in such a short time...

Ok, that was funny.  

Exercising takes 20 mins, 3 times a week.  That was my point.  If it's important to people, they'll find the time.  Exercise and diet are two ways people can drastically improve their quality of life.  They don't take much effort, just a change in habits.

As for my office, I traded a high salary for personal (and intellectual) freedom.  I never thought about it, but I guess I could do squats here.

Stray, just because you disagree with my reasoning doesn't make me an asshole.   (My thin-skinned habits of responding to insults that can derail a thread makes me an asshole, but not that.)  However, calling me names because you cannot see my point of view does classify you as one, does it not?

Moving right along, not all of us like to exercise.  There's lots of excuses as to why, and they're fairly good excuses:  It's work, and not all of us feel that the work is worth the reward.  We're shy and don't feel like working out among other people.  It's too much of a change in our daily regimen to up and go to a gym.   Maybe it offends your sensibilities that people have invented these reasons, but skill at self-delusion is unfortunately part of being human.

That said, I never denied that, regardless of how we might feel on the matter, there is definite benefits to exercising.     Just ask google, there's lots of things (http://halife.com/living/health/exercisetips.html) somebody can do get over their reasons not to exercise.

However, the real topic here isn't about whether somebody should or should not exercise.  The real topic is that somebody hooked up a treadmill to their computer.   Is that a bad thing?   Personally I think it's a good way to multitask, if you can pull it off comfortably.    Going to a gym may be all well and good for you, but if I can achieve the same thing in the privacy and convenience in my own home, that works too.

I just want to know, how much electricity can a treadmill generate, and can I sell it back to the power company to help pay for my gaming habit?  I heard in California, households with solar panels can actually turn a profit.  Get in shape, AND earn money!

I think I read in an old mag somewhere of some guy in Germany powering an old NES with his stationary bike. Id love to see someone try and pedal power a modern pc. Mmmm I can hear the flesh and sinew popping off their bones. What wonderful music!

The guy hooked up a treadmill to drive his gaming habit.  It's just funny on so many levels... this is obvious, isn't it? If it's making the guy happy then who the hell cares what anyone else thinks?  Noone is getting hurt.  

As for exercise, it's your life and your body so you get to decide.  Unfortunately, the real bottom line is that people that don't lead healthy lives create real costs for those that do.  If you don't believe me, it's easy to look up.  Insurance premiums and health care costs are driven up by poor lifestyle choices.

Very true, although lack exercise and a bad diet is just one (two?) fascet(s) of that.  I wonder how it compares to smoking and drinking.

As Nebu says, statistics are available, I'm sure Google can find them.  But there is overwhelming evidence that exercise is good, period.  And there are ways of measuring fitness, other than body appearance.  I know some chubby-looking people who exercise plenty, and are extremely fit according to doctors based on biometrics/blood tests/etc.  Sure, if you are extremely obese you must start an exercise plan gradually, but I've never seen any reputable study saying that moderate exercise is harmful.

If you are in good physical condition, your body is more tolerant of almost everything -- alcohol, bad food, you name it.  So sorry if it feels like folks are picking on you, but it's a very hard case to argue that exercise is optional.

It would be if that were what I was arguing, yes.

What I've pointed out is that there's many powerful reasons why people don't exercise.  These reasons aren't related to their health, because clearly exercising is nothing but good for it.   On retrospect, it's not really on topic with the man that hooked up a treadmill to his computer, but things kinda turned that way as threads are wont to do.

Ah yes geldon, it does seem that we seized on part of what you said, without the bigger context.

As for powering a computer with a treadmill, on the bright side WoW doesn't have top-end hardware requirements.  I wonder whether it would be possible to power a very efficient laptop?  I think the monitor would be the real power hog.  Maybe if you de-coupled the display and only powered the computer, it might be possible...  I wanna see some numbers.

So your point is basically that people have come up with some damn good excuses over the years for being fat slobs. Let's all celebrate your eccentric misunderstood genius in reaching such a conclusion.

*crickets chirping*

Okay, now perhaps you'll want to consider that this is yet another "hey look at what this stupid guy did and join me in mocking him" thread that you've attempted to de-rail into some larger discussion on exercise.

What this guy did is only slightly better than rigging up a MMOG setup in his bathroom so he can play on the toilet. And it's only slightly less ridiculous.



For once, you're right....there are a plethora of other reasons available.

Bring the noise.
Cheers...............

Damn, that is a great time management idea. I could re-subscribe to WoW and play while in the bathroom. This is genius!

Rest easy, gentle reader, there shall be no DV vrs Geldon trainwreck on this thread.   DV's remarkable ability to invent conflicts where there are none remains one of the many wonders of this world, to the point where I fear I see little point in replying to him anymore, and instead I shall sit here in rapt fascination with his deliberate misinterpretation of my written word, getting fatter.   I know not what stirs his ire to provoke such acts, only that his literary vendetta is as unceasing as it is irrational.

I think there already is one.

That said. . .



When did you become the arbiter of cool?  So this poor slob decided that he wanted to merge gaming and working out.  So what?  Given the stupid excuses people make for not exercising, this guy at very least has made a commitment to getting in shape.  

Sure, his method is outlandish, but it's far from Rube Goldberg-complex/stupid.  

You people can't have anything nice, can you?

Wait, are treadmills always ridiculous, or only when you're playing a game while running on one?  Is watching TV on your treadmill more or less ridiculous?  We have a stationary bike downstairs, upon which I read.  Ridiculous?

Out of curiously, did I really de-rail a "hey look at what this stupid guy did and join me in mocking him" thread, and if so is that a problem?

I mean, if you want me to play along it's not that hard to run a quick mental check, "Is this thread attempting to bring to our attention a potential target of ridicule".   Then, if so, I could say something like: "GUFFAW!  That guy did done something I never did do!"  Even though my heart really wouldn't be in it knowing this approach is less than a critical interpretation.

...Though he misunderstood why I called him one. It isn't because of his reasoning on this particular issue. I'm criticizing him more for (what I think are) his motivations.

For someone to consistently jump into threads and respond with the most half-assed arguments etc...Well, it just seems to me like he's just looking for any excuse to disagree or put himself at odds with others. Someone couldn't possibly believe all the stupid shit Geldon says unless they were mentally retarded or just doing it to be an asshole.

Be glad Geldon, at least I don't think you're retarded.

In this case I didn't even notice I was participating in a "lets mock this guy" thread, because I would think that as a gamer trying to mesh one's gaming time and one's exercise time is a serious topic.  I've seriously put some serious thought in it, given my unfortunate tendacy to want to spend every scrap of free time in front of the computer.

However, my actual motivation for jumping into such threads with a argument is that, on some level, the reason to attack the selected target of mockery doesn't pan out under critical evaluation.      Unfortunately, I'm not very good at putting together a compelling argument, so when nobody catches on with what I'm saying my sentiments generally just deadpan and I end up looking bad.   It's why I tend not to argue with DV and Boog anymore - I've learned they're either really bad at catching on or prefer not to.

But if you, and the majority of the board, really think the only reason I ever get involved with a thread is either "to be argumentive" or "because I'm retarded"... I don't know, maybe it's time to retire, let the new generation take over things.   If mockery is more important than critical thinking here, boy, am I ever in the wrong place.   No wonder you're ticked off at me, I should just let you guys have your fun and remain blissfully unaware of the potential circumstances that make a matter not worth mocking.

Birth.



If walking at 2.5-3.1 miles per hour constitutes a workout for you, you've put off getting in shape for FAR FAR TOO LONG. That's less of a workout than going to the grocery store or the local shopping mall.

I CAN CRAWL A 20 MINUTE MILE.



Point being the guy is so catasstastic as to rig up a MMOG-treadmill setup so he wouldn't have to spend a few hours away from his MMOG to do such strenuous activity as WALKING.



Yes it is. That is precisely how you earned your title. To wit:


Not one response in the thread prior to yours took it seriously. Afterwards you started trying to make the earth-shattering point of "there are some very good reasons for not exercising". Those reasons are what the rest of us refer to as "excuses".

So not only didn't you understand that it was a "hey look at teh stupid" thread, but your line of "serious discussion" was neither a good point nor even an interesting conversation.

Christ. I hate it when people need it spelled out for them.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

I finally get it - this place, in the fine tradition of LTM, is endeavoring to be a place of mockery, except extending this to even non-game related things.   How about that, I finally figured out where the problem is.  I shall blog it immediately.   Mark it on your calendars: The day Geldonyetich gets it.

I don't like "hey look at teh stupid" threads.  I've been inadvertently raining on your parade by pointing out the flaws in the logic of mocking them.   No wonder you argued so vehemently against what I was saying: I was ruining what you call "teh funny" and you were fighting tooth and nail to preserve it at all costs.

I don't know, Lum, did you really take it upon yourself to mock things that you didn't critically evaluate as being worth mocking first?   Seems that what DV's campaigning here is sort of a cheap knock-off mockery to me. They're pushing in the wrong direction, going through the motions but not actually connecting with the substance.  Wanting to emulate the fun of mocking something so badly, it doesn't even matter of it's really worth mocking anymore.

Mock Mockery?

Well shoot, it's not even worth mentioning that I was fully aware that those were "excuses" to not exercise but that they applied nonetheless to the reasons why people don't.

Hrmph, can't post in Politics because I'm under-qualified.  Can't post in General because I'm over-qualified.   Not sure exactly what I'm doing here.   I guess there's the game forum, hmm...

Sometime in the last year, I read a report on a study that found not exercising to be the worst of many bad habits.  The study basically said you could smoke, or drink, or whatever (it didn't really go into combinations of vices, though) and if you exercised regularly, you would have a better chance of being healthy than someone who did not engage in the vice, but also didn't exercise.

The combinations are always the fun part... Now THAT would be an entertaining paid college health study to organize.  For $5000 you must:
- Train 3 hours per day, and participate in a triathlon
- Eat a minimum 4 twinkies, a Big Mac, and a bag of Tater Tots daily
- Smoke 5 cigarettes per day
- Binge drink at one case of beer per weekend
- Catass at a computer game 40 hours per week

Wonder whether fitness would triumph?  Honestly I can eat and drink almost anything in massive quantities during soccer season, without noticable consequences.

At least the guy isn't just sitting there.  If he's so lazy he has to use a MMOG as a carrot/stick device to exercise at all, well that's sad, yeah, but at least he's "trying."

That's better than a few people here can claim I'd bet.

I've got $20 here that says you can't. And if you try that would be something worth mocking.

When you excersize, you tend to have more energy throughout the day. You also tend to have clearer thought processes. And you usually sleep better. That's worth the time.

I work out a fair amount, but I am not bulky by *any* means nor do I want to be. I am fairly cut though. (Although not as much as I was a few years ago) I can also do some weird feats of strength like sit down and stand back up slowly on one leg while sticking my other leg out in front of me and holding a beer in a cup. (Try it - it might not sound very hard but not many people seem to be able to do it. It's an amusing trick at a party when people are buzzed if nothing else. I can do it with either leg also)

Anyway, my point was you don't have to be some blimpy musclehead. Most women don't go for that anyway. (Not that I work out to attract women, but it's a handy fringe benefit.)

Edit: Crawling a 20 minute mile would actually be a pretty good workout. Probably use a lot of muscles in a way you don't normally...and it would be pretty hard. That said, walking at 3 to 4 MPH is hardly a workout. I walk 35 minutes to work everyday, I don't consider that anything. (Other than a constant reminder that I need some sort of mobile music playing technology)

You bastard, I'm working on those... well except for the beer part.  They are hard as hell and I collapse about 3/4 of the way down.

I always thought the best hangover cure was to get in the shower, turn it up so hot you can barely stand it, wait for it to get comfortable, and then crank it over to bone-chilling cold before your brain has a chance to tell your hand "hey, asshole, don't DO that!"

Needless to say, make sure the showerhead is not pointing at your crotch when you do this...

Then go have breakfast and take a walk.

I'm not any paragon of health, though.  Used to be I could bike 4-5 miles downhill across the valley floor, up the other side of the valley (another 6 or 8 miles or so horizontally, with a 2000' climb), back down and across the valley and halfway up the other side to my home....and then do something like eat an entire bag of Double-stuff Oreos.  But goddamn, I had the best freakin' legs of my life.

Well, according to the news, the gov't has finally clued in to the obvious (http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/diet.fitness/01/12/food.pyramid.ap/index.html).  Eat less and exercise.

It's kind of strange, it didn't take me long at all to learn to do that. (As in, like one day) I don't have particularly strong legs either and a pretty high center of gravity. I think the key is having strong lateral leg muscles to keep your knee in place and I guess I do..

Crawl a 20 minute mile?  Probably not.  Still a 20 minute mile is dead slow.  It's like waddling slow. 15 is an average pace 12 is pretty damn good for walking.

And for whoever asked about using a weight vest?  If you have any respect for your back or joints DONT DO IT!

Nice link, gracias.

So, according to that, 20 mins of exercise 3 times a week is crap.   Bare minimum 30 to 90 minutes of exercise each and every day.   At least 60 minutes a day to "lose weight and keep it off".   To those that said so before, still convinced that everybody can make time to exercise?

I will bet any amount of money that you can lose weight jogging 30 minutes a day.

Those are guidelines.  They are limited by a plethora of contributing factors.  I know for a fact that there are a number of exercise programs that are quite effective and require less time.   They just aren't for everyone.  For example, I wouldn't want anyone morbidly obese or with a severe heart condition doing high intensity circuit training.  They would be better served by 60-90 minutes of moderate exercise daily... see what I did there?  Due to the lawsuit happy society, recommendations need to be set at levels where they minimize liability.  

From my experience, people that are 75 years old rarely wished that they had worked more.  Life is all about choices... barring those few with guns to their heads.   With that in mind, I'm convinced that most Americans could find the time to adequately exercise if they made it a priority in life to do so.  The majority of Americans don't get adequate exercise and eat like crap.  As a result, their quality of life is lower (see any number of studies on obesity and depression) and their healthcare expenses (on average) are much higher.  The previous sentence isn't my opinion, it's a fact.  

It's your life, do what makes you happy.  To say that you don't have a choice in the matter is likely not the case.   Life is all about choices and opportunity costs.  Yes, I have to make sacrifices in order to exercise daily.  I believe that these choices will prove beneficial in the long run.   Choosing not to take the same path doesn't mean that the path is unavailable, it means that you don't find it a good cost/benefit plan for your lifestyle.  

Then again what do I know... I could die of a heart attack tomorrow.

 

I'd take this bet.  Losing weight is about taking in fewer calories than you burn.  If you run 30 mins a day, you could still offset that increase in calories burned with a greater intake.  

To be honest, I know what you mean... you were stating that if you monitored your diet AND ran 30 mins a day that you'd lose weight.  I'm just being a dick because it's late.

I said can, not will.

You CAN lose weight jogging 30 minutes a day. Will you? It depends if you decide to eat more in an attempt to stay out of shape :)

If you eat the same, you will lose weight...or at least gain weight slower than you were I suppose.

You are talking about one of these, right?

(http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/04-096-training/Rx-Squat-position-6.jpg)


That is rather difficult and most people have to train for weeks or months to pull one off.  If you can do those, you don't have weak legs, at all.

I relly can't see why setting up a tredmill/computer setup is a bad thing to entertain yourself while you work out. I also get the feeling that no-one is actually saying that. What they are saying is that making that setup because you are such a catass that you need to merge other parts of your life into your MMOG fix is pathetic. The man is not a 1-2 hours free a day man who spends his life doing other stuff and therefore decided to merge his exercise time and MMOG time so as not to neglect one or the other. Nor is he a guy who found treadmilling to be so completely boring that he found a way to entertain himself doing it.

You all need to take just a little more time understanding what everyone is saying before you get into arguments over it. Which is why Geldon is so inflamatory, he's so hard to understand. Personally I just skim what he writes. The less you read them the more you understand them. At least that's what I find.

It's a matter of can vs. will.  And like Nebu said, those are guidelines.  When I need to drop weight, I just stop drinking beer, switch to booze + diet soda drinks, I stop eating shit late at night unless it's an orange or celery.  Then I bike for about 30 mins twice a week, with an extra 40 mile bike-ride on the weekend.  It doesn't get me toned or ripped or whatever, but it certainly drops the pounds at a reasonable, sustainable pace.

20 mins of exercise 3 times a week is not crap IF you do it correctly. If you don't follow a routine proven to give results based on 20minute periods, than yes, you are only going to give yourself a headache. Hell, I've gotten a nice set of abs doing only 8 minutes in the morning, 7 days a week(56 minutes total for those of you counting.)

 8 minutes in the Morning (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060505389/002-2883123-3226413)

8 minutes is too much. Hell, that's almost another tap on the snooze bar.

I wish to god manufacturers wouldn't put that evil button on alarm clocks.

Anyone know if there's any truth to that saying that you have to exercise for at least 20 minutes before it does any real good? Something about after 20 minutes your body starts burning stored fat?

Getting started on an exercise program is always the hardest part for me. If I can get through the first couple weeks without skipping days, everything after that is fine. But those first couple weeks, I have such a hard time getting started.

It's bullshit. The body responds to work immediatly. Any action, even for but a moment, is always better than no action at all. Exercise, no matter how little, is always better than not exercising.

No documented "evidence" or "proof" here. I'm just arguing for common sense.

You need to get your heart rate up to around 65% of peak and keep it there for a while to get real cardiovascular/weight loss benefit.  That's pretty easy to do, especially if you're out of shape.  It just means you shouldn't try to do power squats for weight loss, since you'll exhaust yourself before your heart rate gets up.  It also means casual strolling isn't very useful, unless you're strolling uphill.

The 20 minute rule is that if you keep your training heart rate up (ie, post warm-up) for 20 minutes, you start to develop muscles at a greater rate than just sustaining.  This is primarily for cardio exercise.  Resistance training (weights, sit-ups) is a different beast.

I think < 20 minutes will give you a fat burning benefit, if a small one.  Of course the more you exercise, the more fat you burn, so I think < 20 minutes per session is going to give you a glacial pace of fat burning (not considering diet), but it will be there.

In that vein I wouldn't agree that a 35 minute 4-5mph walk a day isn't "anything"... it's not going to put you in the Olympics but if every American did just that, this "obesity epidemic" would probably go away.

Edit: typo

Yep, that picture is exactly what I am talking about. I have no idea why I can do that, but I can, and basically always have been able to.

I think that has to do with the average time it takes to burn up the sugars in the blood stream before the body starts utilizing fat.  This isn't an all or nothing scenario though; IIRCyour body goes to burning fat within a few minutes when doing something, like walking.

But as Stray pointed out, your body has to burn energy to do work and it begins to burn energy the second you start working.  Even if you never make it to the "fat burning zone", your body will go to the fat stores afterwards to get what it needs.

The Body For Life program has some kind of cycled cardio workout that many swear by, and is only 18-20 minutes long.  The "Tabata Protocol" was first used on Japanese Olympic athletes, and is starting to become more popular.  It is a very, very intense 4 minute long cardio workout that has been shown to provide more benefits(including fat loss) than tradional, less intense cardio work (walking, jogging, etc).