f13.net

I'll try to keep this short.  

My brother announced in May 2009 that he and his girlfriend are getting married.  Shortly thereafter, they set their wedding ceremony for October 16th, 2010 in Michigan.  

After I learned this, myself and my girlfriend decided to get married  ;D (I haven't actually proposed yet- the ring is being re-sized and in Japan the couple usually decides to get married first, then looks for a ring together).  This was very recent and we haven't told my family yet.

We are deciding to have two ceremonies- one in Japan, one in Ohio.  I have a big extended family, most of whom are pretty middle-class, and I cannot ask them to all fly to Japan.  The culture of my family is also that EVERYONE comes to family weddings, so I can't just say I will have a small wedding in Japan and stiff my side.  Ditto for her relatives.  The Japanese ceremony will be attended by one of my parents (my mom can't fly) and hopefully my grandparents and perhaps my brothers (depends on if they have the vacation- the one getting married probably won't).  

We want the Ohio ceremony in the spring of 2011- no problem there.  But the Japanese ceremony is problematic.  It is much, much more convenient for her family (and for her immigration paperwork) if we have the Japanese ceremony in the fall of 2010.  She would like to have it in mid-December in Tokyo.  We can push it off until the spring if we have to.  

I know that if I was planning a stateside wedding only, planning it within two months of my brother's already-announced wedding would be monumental douchery.  But we just aren't sure if the fact this ceremony is in Japan changes that equation.  Moreover, if we ask them directly if its ok, they may feel pressure to say it is even if it bothers them.  My fiance does not want to start things on the wrong foot with my brother, but a lot of her family factors push in the direction of December.

Of course this depends a lot on the personality of my brother and his fiance, which ya'll don't know.  I'm just trying to get a feel of whether even CONSIDERING to hold the Japanese ceremony in December is, in the abstract, lol-worthy douchebaggery.   Thanks for any thoughts you may have.

All I can say is that you know your family better than we do.  I don't see it as an inherently bad thing to have two weddings  that close together.  For you and your brother to both start married life at around the same time might even be good for you guys.  Gives you something to talk about.

I'd say if most of your family aren't going to be attending the Japanese ceremony it's not too big a deal. You're not going to be competing for attention or stretching people's wallets for gifts and it's clear your doing it for sensible reasons to make your fiance and her family happy. Really there doesn't seem to be any reason for them to be annoyed at this, it's two months apart and will mostly have different people attending.

I am sure you have already spoken to an immigration lawyer, but make sure you have gone through the US process for bringing your wife over properly to prevent any surprises at the airport.

...and congratulations!

Congratulations.

Have you considered splitting the difference and holding the wedding in Hawaii?  :why_so_serious:

Weddings are overrated.

Spend the money on a house. 

Or go to Vegas, get married by Elvis, and let the money you would have spent on the wedding and plane tickets and hotels and caterers ride on black on the routette table.  Either way, you achieve the same result (married, spent a shitpile of cash), with the possibility of having a ton of coin in your pocket (married, shitpile of cash in hand).

Hyuforcer?

If only   :heart:  I've never been there, but we still have the honeymoon to plan.

My wife and I wish we would have done this now.  The wedding is fun and we had a big party, but the memory of it fades pretty quickly.

I dislike weddings.  All weddings.  Especially formal weddings.  So not fun.  I didn't really have one.  Registrar's office in Kingston and was planning just to go home, hang out with some friends and that would be the end of it.  Righ's folks decided to pop in from Scotland and give us a nice dinner at the hotel they were staying in.  It only lasted a couple of hours, just Righ's family and a few friends who came to the ceremony, they went to bed and we went home with the friends.  Nice day and everything back to normal the next.  Weddings are a huge waste of money, in my opinion, and stressy for everyone involved.  Who needs that! 

But think of all the poor wedding crashers! They'll be out of a hobby.

Congrats.

I'd look at the Japan wedding as completely independent of your brother's since the overlap of guests is so tiny. As long as the timing is not directly in competition so people have to make a choice, no big deal.

I am in somewhat agreement with SnakeCharmer though.  Weddings are an expensive pain in the ass. Having two just doubles that up.

If I ever end up getting divorced, I'm not getting remarried.  To hell with that noise. 

Anyway, Tri...Don't worry about ettiquette.  Do what makes your bride happy, because that's all that matters.  You really don't want to start your married life with her being supremely pissed.  That kind of thing will haunt you forever.

This is pretty much all you need to know about wedding etiquette.

That's pretty much where I come down on this, but my fiance is worried enough I told her I would try to solicit some advice. 

And to Ab and Snakecharmer- I actually kinda feel that way, but in my neck of the woods it would be pretty shocking to my extended family if I didn't do the formal wedding thing.  Ditto to her family- I grew up on a farm and she is Japanese, and there are some heavy cultural factors in play on both ends. 

My wife and I found a nice spot on the beach, No decorations or chairs or anything, had a notary do the vows, and about 13 people circled us close standing as the sun set while we said vows, we went home and ate good food and kicked everyone out. It. was. awesome.

I say screw culture and peoples feelings, and focus only on your woman. She is the only one that matters in this.

yeah weddings are pretty over-rated, over-expensive, and ultimately, anachronistic.   Go have a nice dinner with your family and be done with it.


edit: expense...

Weddings are for your families, not for yourselves.  Thats pretty much how it works.

Also:
This.  A friend of mine is going to marry his Norwegian girlfriend.  However, they have been having the worst fucking time getting paperwork through immigration so she can come over and get married.  Just constant delays and horrific shit.  When the paperwork is being worked on, the bride is not allowed to enter the US at all until its done.  This can take many months, and fuck over the wedding plans, as has happened with my friend.  Just be wary.

Also, what type of wedding are you having in Japan?  If I ever marry a Japanese chick, I'm going to demand a Shinto wedding.   :why_so_serious:

Also, Congrats!

And life, for the most part.

My experience is that the Asian family is more likely to be deeply insulted with issues over a wedding. But I'm not down with Japanese culture so  :uhrr:

Congratulations! Gambatte!

This. And you shouldn't pass up the opportunity to dress up in the Japanese wedding gear, those pictures will amuse everyone you show them to.

Is there going to be a lot of travel involved in your brother's wedding? If your family is going to go to Japan despite your suggestions, and they are already paying to travel to your brother's wedding, then having yours right on the heels of his and also between Thanksgiving and Christmas, which may or may not involve more travel, could possibly be a pretty unpleasant amount of money spent all at once for them.

If Elvis and Vegas isn't an option:

Have the Japanese ceremony when it is most convenient for her family and explicitly tell yours that there will be one for them in Spring.  Let them know they are welcome, some might want to visit Japan, but that this is so her family is able to participate.  The Spring ceremony is so that they may participate and not have to worry about travel on the heels of your brother's.  If being upfront annoys any of your family, then you know who to not send Christmas cards to. ;D

(As a bonus, I imagine it would help with immigration since when you do come to the States you would already be married, and not trying to get her into the country to do so.)

Given that you're only talking about a few of your relatives even possibly going to Japan, and it will be *after* his (and presumably not require any planning help or financing from your relatives), I'd sit down and talk it over with your brother or his fiance (whichever seems less likely to pitch a fit), actually I'd get whoever in your family is generally best at calming the waters to be your go-between.  The way you tip-toe around it, I take it you expect that conversation to go badly, but really he's got no right to bitch.  No, you're not being a douche.

Don't put the decision on your brother and his fiance.  Make the decision you think is the best compromise and smallest disruption to all involved and have it presented to them as a fait accompli.  It may be seen by them as a douchebag move, but it's one quick pull of the band-aid rather than an ongoing soap-opera.  If he gets pissy, point out the immigration issues and blame the government.

--Dave

I conferred with my wife on this and she was like, of course it's fine.   I'd double check with your brother and future sister in law just to make sure they're not going to be absurdly offended, but otherwise go for it.

Actually, from what I gathered from my friend, its harder if you got married abroad to bring them over.  They have to go through a different process that takes longer I believe.  I'll have to ask him again to be sure though.

Unless your brother or his wife is an ass you're fine with December.

Also, isn't December Winter?

And Congratulations!

Yes, if you are married and bring your foreign wife over the government will believe you are coming over permanently.  You should really speak to a US immigration lawyer to get this sorted out if you have not done so already.  There are cases where obtaining a fiance visa and then coming over to get married in the US first may be advisable and there are also circumstances which may make it easier to apply for a different sort of visa after you are married in Japan but before you enter the US. 

US immigration even gives (visa-free) Canadians and Brits that are married to US citizens a hard time about this, so just keep that in mind.

It can also depend on her current immigration status.  If she's already in the US on a work permit, or has a green card, it is quite possible that getting married overseas and coming back on her existing status (and thereby skipping the K-3 Visa and not needing a K-1) will make it easier.  If they get married in the States while she's on some other kind of visa, things can get really complicated and ICE will work from the assumption it's a "Green Card marriage" and be looking for excuses to deport her.

But I'm guessing.  I certainly hope he's consulting with an immigration attorney.

--Dave

I like weddings! Other people's, mostly, although ours was also rad. As long as you keep your head and don't get sucked into the EVERYTHING MUST BE PERFECT AND YOU HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY AND AND AND thing (which can admittedly be hard), it's not even THAT bad to plan (not saying planning ours was stress-free, but it wasn't so stressful that it's the first thing I think of, unlike some other ladies I know).

Anyhoo, talk to your brother, you could be worrying a lot about nothing, especially since the Japanese wedding is mostly for her side. If you're clear about that to your family, unless they're all crazy annoying people, they should understand, I would think, especially with all the immigration crap.

Congrats, Tri!

If you don't know someone who does immigration (I doubt it, but hey), I can probably refer you to some guys I know. Send me a PM if you need the info.

I've spoken to an immigration attorney at my firm about all the legal bits.  As some here have said, getting married overseas isn't a good idea and greatly increases processing time.  THe k-1 fiance visa is the way to go.  We won't actually be "married" at the ceremony in Japan- our actual marriage day will just be signing the paper at city hall in Ohio, quietly, at some point between the two ceremonies.   :drill:  That is ho-hum in Japan (many people have a ceremony months before/after signing the paper, they don't put any great significance on the paper), so we should be ok.  

Thanks to all for the sage advice!  Much appreciated.


EDIT:  And in case anyone was wondering, I am not this guy- http://www.salon.com/life/broadsheet/2009/11/25/virtual_love/index.html   

Have it on the same day as your brother's. That way you'll know who your true friends are.

Congratulations!

I'm at the end of the K-1 process now (Just waiting on an interview date, hopefully in December - I'm expecting to be able to travel in January, with the wedding in February or March). Get the paperwork started the *moment* you can - with false starts, it has taken me since March to get this far, had I been better organised, we'd be married now. Once your fiance receives her Visa, she can enter the US up to 6 months later, after which you have 90 days to get married and apply for adjustment of status.

Best of luck to you both.

My only suggestion is to have your wedding first so you get all the good gifts.

I'm learning lots about Japanese weddings.  My fiance wants a western wedding in Japan- her exact words were "a white dress, no uncomfortable kimono." 

Weddings here have three parts if you want them- ceremony (hire a white guy to play a pastor- some white guys really make a living doing that here), inner party (very close friends and family only), and 2nd reception for other friends.  She only wants the inner party, which given I have almost nobody coming would be 40 people or less.  And its only a two hour thing.

Downside is its still ungodly expensive- the Japanese really get soaked on weddings and funeral costs.  Upside is that each of the 40 or so people give cash- the amount is directly indicated on the invitation- at least $300 and optionally $400 or $500 if the attendee is wealthy.  2nd party attendees, if we have one, give only $100.   

I've been to a wedding here- there's literally a guy at the front that takes your money before letting you in  :awesome_for_real:

Wow. I think I ought to suggest that to my fiance. If nothing else, it should ensure a small ceremony  :awesome_for_real:

I thought in Western cultures it was customary to give the happy couple a gift, as a token of appreciation for all the pain and time spent in organising the wedding. Asians are much more practical! Weddings cost money, give money!

Actually, the gift is theoretically intended to get them all the stuff they need to start a new household (in a western wedding).  Hence the wedding registries, so they don't get 16 melon ballers and 8 garlic presses.  Do you know I've owned 4 garlic presses, and never actually used one to press garlic (I don't like chunky garlic, I use garlic powder for flavor but actual chunks of garlic are like little chunks of barbed steel in my stomach, and the smell comes out in your sweat).

--Dave

I always give a chrome 2-slot toaster as a wedding present. Then if the bride or groom get upset, don't give the check that goes along with it.

People should always go for the Goodfellas Bag O' Money type wedding.

I support this, completely.