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Title: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: RUiN 427 on August 05, 2009, 12:56:21 PM
I'm definitely not the only one to notice, but they are clearly showering us with purples to push everyone through content before the citadel. My meager 5 man buddy guild ran normal Trial of the Champion last night twice real quick. It was like exploding a pinata of purples. We had a fresh 80 DK with us and he got 4 plate dps purps and a that ridiculous ArP trinket... screw heroics. We're just going to farm that place dry and head for naxx.

Oh and it was fun too. We didn't spoil the fights (as easy as they were to figure out) by reading up on them. Just went in and sloppily cleared the instance twice before logging out surrounded with treats, like exhausted children on christmas afternoon.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Ingmar on August 05, 2009, 01:04:09 PM
Its a nice way to gear up new alts or latecomers, certainly.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 05, 2009, 02:42:18 PM
Yep. It means less required naxx farming nights for alts and newer 80s.

Naxx will still be better gear over time, just due to badger rain and more complete slot coverage, but this place wins for "I hit 80 and need gear that doesn't suck"


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: K9 on August 05, 2009, 03:04:53 PM
Looking at it, some of the new gear is itemised better than Naxx gear.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Tannhauser on August 05, 2009, 04:26:02 PM
Shit, my 80 Mage needs to get in there then!  :drill:

/hates raiding


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Sjofn on August 05, 2009, 04:32:19 PM
Shit, my 80 Mage needs to get in there then!  :drill:

/hates raiding

Between that and heroics you'd be lookin' good, really, since the heroics are dropping higher badges now.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Hindenburg on August 05, 2009, 04:38:15 PM
Hrm, if you're gonna do gear runs, I'd be more than willing to bring the parked DK around. She's still frozen in DH. MAKE IT HAPPEN.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Draegan on August 05, 2009, 04:55:55 PM
I wish I could sub for a week to try out some of the stuff since I havn't played since before Ulduar.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: K9 on August 05, 2009, 05:45:46 PM
I like Ulduar, and this patch won't really kill it off tbh. It's fun and challenging, but in a fair way, not a cockstabby way.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Merusk on August 05, 2009, 08:38:43 PM
Except for XT.  Oh the whines and cries in general from guilds who have been exploiting the 2 corners method are delicious.  Not only did they not get used to doing it right but now they have to deal with extra bombs.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 05, 2009, 09:53:00 PM
Except for XT.  Oh the whines and cries in general from guilds who have been exploiting the 2 corners method are delicious.  Not only did they not get used to doing it right but now they have to deal with extra bombs.

XT is cockstabby? What?


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Merusk on August 05, 2009, 10:03:51 PM
Right now XT is spawning a lot more adds than he should, and you can't pull him between 2 trash piles to stop those piles from spawning adds anymore.  (It wasn't considered an exploit, but it wasn't an intended mechanic.)   

On one phase Tuesday we counted about 20 bombs and who knows how many clockworks. I know we got that "kill clockworks with bombs" achievement just by killing one one side.   So yeah, doing 'normal' mode XT is cockstabby.  If you can do hard mode and get the adds to stop spawning, it's actually easier than normal mode right now.  At least until they did the hotfix patch.   


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: K9 on August 06, 2009, 12:40:03 AM
Tanking him to the side isn't an exploit.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: K9 on August 06, 2009, 02:39:35 AM
Just did the 5-man on heroic for the first time, most of us in naxx/Uld-10 gear, nothing special certainly. We one shot-everything, and aside from a couple of deaths on the memory of Herod (that fight was surprisingly healing intensive) the instance wasn't too bad. The Dark Knight seemed to fall over very fast for us (DPS on the fight was 1.8K-2K typically) and we got the achivement for having no-one hit by ghoul explosions.

I'm guessing we lucked out and did everything right, because aside from the healing on Herod, the instance didn't feel too intense. Nice and short, thou sadly one of the least memorable instances. I'll probably end up running this a fair amount to gear up my Shaman, but really this is lazy and unimaginative design.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: apocrypha on August 06, 2009, 02:40:29 AM
Bit confused about this... there's 2 version of this yeah, 5-man and raid? Both in Crusaders' Colloseum, 5-man is Trial of the Champion and raid (10-man?) is Trial of the Crusader? Is that right?

What's the difficulty level of the 5-man? My 80's aren't geared up enough for heroics yet, they're kinda halfway between brand-new-80 and minimum-heroics-capable, would they cope with this?


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Ashamanchill on August 06, 2009, 02:45:59 AM
My 78 pally has three pieces of fucking awesome tanking gear he got from the normal run that are better in every way than shit from my tanking druid's naxx runs.  :drill:  Damn you blizzard!! You have my sub for another month.  Also, what are the heroic drops like?


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: K9 on August 06, 2009, 02:46:15 AM
I feel your pain, the naming conventions are all rather confusing.

Trial of the Champion = 5 man, which has normal and heroic modes.
Trial of the Crusader = Raid, which has 10-man, 10-man hard, 25-man and 25-man hard modes.

For a healer, the 5-man on heroic is challenging. I consider myself a pretty skilled priest, and I'm mostly in Ulduar gear now, and I lost a couple of people to the second boss. Other less skilled and geared people have complained about the last fight, but I found this fairly straightforward myself. For a DPS I'd say it's pretty easy; the fight mechanics are pretty simple (don't stand in/near stuff). As a tank I'd say the hardest thing is going to be gathering three mobs from all over the map in the first fight.

Normal mode drops a shower of Naxx-10 level epics, so if you're unsure I'd run that until you know the fight mechanics, and to gain yourself some better gear (for 5-mans the gear is generally well itemised). The bosses don't seem very complicated, so the difficulty is mostly a check on your healer's gear and skill than anything else really.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Merusk on August 06, 2009, 04:30:55 AM
Tanking him to the side isn't an exploit.

I didn't say it was, did I?  I said it wasn't considered one but also wasn't an intended mechanic.   The fact that you can't do it anymore also supports this.  The previous post said that and certain guilds were exploiting that tactic.  You can Exploit a game mechanic without it being an exploit.  Language is funny.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: K9 on August 06, 2009, 05:37:37 AM
Semantics aside, in the context of MMOs the phrase exploit has a well defined meaning, you know that.

The fact that you can't do it now doesn't imply that the patch is fixing an unintended mechanic, since XT is also bombing during tantrums, which was removed several patches ago. This has bug written all over it, and would make no sense as a "fix" since adding cockblocks to lapsed content isn't Blizzard's style anymore.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 06, 2009, 07:17:06 AM
My 78 pally has three pieces of fucking awesome tanking gear he got from the normal run that are better in every way than shit from my tanking druid's naxx runs.  :drill:  Damn you blizzard!! You have my sub for another month.  Also, what are the heroic drops like?

Heroic drops weapons, and ~Uld10 gear.

Loosely, you can fully gear off both the normal and heroic, though it will take a while and you may have leftover slots (I can't fill both trinkets ideally, for example)

But yeah, it's built to equip alts/undergeared players and baseline the population again.

As for XT: Bombing during tantrums? I assume you mean new bombs, since they let him still have bombs running during tantrums ages ago (when tantrum was redesigned to not outright kill anyone). The only complaint I've heard is that his add phase is bugged and spawning 2-3x the usual number of adds. But beyond that, he's never been a cockstab. He's one of the bosses that keeps getting nerfed that even my horribly casual guild goes "what? XT nerfs? REALLY?", only rivaled by the number of times Kologarn gets the shit nerfed out of him. But Ignis? Nooooo.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Nevermore on August 06, 2009, 07:26:09 AM
Apparently XT has already been hotfixed to reduce the number of adds that spawn.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: K9 on August 06, 2009, 08:27:04 AM
As for XT: Bombing during tantrums? I assume you mean new bombs, since they let him still have bombs running during tantrums ages ago (when tantrum was redesigned to not outright kill anyone). The only complaint I've heard is that his add phase is bugged and spawning 2-3x the usual number of adds. But beyond that, he's never been a cockstab. He's one of the bosses that keeps getting nerfed that even my horribly casual guild goes "what? XT nerfs? REALLY?", only rivaled by the number of times Kologarn gets the shit nerfed out of him. But Ignis? Nooooo.

I mean he's casting light bomb and gravity bomb during tantrums, which was patched out a while ago. You're right, he's never been a cockstab, and as the easiest gatekeeper boss he really shouldn't be. Hence, for this to be an intentional change makes zero fucking sense. For the record my guild killed him prior to the nerfs to tantrum damage and bombs, and we will probably get through him even with the retarded changes. However, for a boss that is almost entirely farm content and offers next to no loot to anyone in my raid, making him take longer and be more frustrating at this point is just an unnecessary annoyance. I'm not asking for any more nerfs, but I'd be quite happy if he was left alone as is, I'm not really interested in any buffs either  :grin:

Ignis has been fixed in this patch and molten adds don't drop aggro when they turn molten. This should make him a LOT easier, as loose adds were really the only problem you could have that was hard to control.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Sheepherder on August 06, 2009, 08:50:10 AM
What's the difficulty level of the 5-man? My 80's aren't geared up enough for heroics yet, they're kinda halfway between brand-new-80 and minimum-heroics-capable, would they cope with this?

Normal requires no though and drops nothing but Naxx-10 epics.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 06, 2009, 08:56:37 AM

Ignis has been fixed in this patch and molten adds don't drop aggro when they turn molten. This should make him a LOT easier, as loose adds were really the only problem you could have that was hard to control.

Dear god that's nice. He's been on our list of "hey guys, let's do ignis!" "fuck yooooou" for a while.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 06, 2009, 08:58:03 AM
What's the difficulty level of the 5-man? My 80's aren't geared up enough for heroics yet, they're kinda halfway between brand-new-80 and minimum-heroics-capable, would they cope with this?

Normal requires no though and drops nothing but Naxx-10 epics.

It's also trivial for a few geared people to carry you through a heroic run of it.

After the black knight dropped on one run, someone went "hey, since when does normal drop champ seals?" on my last heroic run. It's really a trivial instance.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Sheepherder on August 06, 2009, 09:09:31 AM
This brings whole new meaning to welfare epics.  The sheer amount of purple is frightening.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Nebu on August 06, 2009, 09:19:26 AM
This brings whole new meaning to welfare epics.  The sheer amount of purple is frightening.

It's funny the way you guys toss around the welfare term like you do.  I've played this game off and on since release and still have yet to see more than two 5-man instances while they were still yellow.  It's tough, as an adult, to find people to play with when you don't have an established group.  Granted, I'm pretty unwilling to pug so I accept a lot of the blame for my own choices. 



Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: WindupAtheist on August 06, 2009, 09:36:36 AM
omg i remember when epics used to be epic bring back 40 mans beeyotch qq


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 06, 2009, 10:50:43 AM
This brings whole new meaning to welfare epics.  The sheer amount of purple is frightening.

Damn that need to baseline the playerbase in order to release new content! DAMN IT TO HELL.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Soulflame on August 06, 2009, 11:20:46 AM
It's pretty nice of Blizzard to give the playerbase an easier way to gear up alts, rerolls, or just plain new players in a 5 man instance.  You cannot buy a Naxx XX run in my guild anymore, you'd have to PUG it instead, with typically comical results.  You can beg a run through a 5 man instance though.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 06, 2009, 11:30:35 AM
I just don't like the de-valuing of purples.  That is to say I enjoy the color system but it's gone way over the deep end in pandering to peoples needs to feel like they're achieving when they aren't.  Because you don't just have greens, blues and purples anymore. You have greens which are relegated to enchanting fodder and quest rewards, nothing more.  Then you have blues which are nice but quickly start being phased out once you hit 80.  Then you have purples, the great equalizer right? Except they aren't. 

This is where we start getting into item levels "oh those are only 'heroic' purples? what shit gear" suddenly purple doesn't even mean anything anymore and ilvl is all people look at.  The whole color system really made you feel like you were accomplishing something at one point but as the game progresses it's becoming more of an afterthought.  Everyone being in purple gear doesn't de-value either my achievements or that of others but what it does de-value is the items themselves.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Lantyssa on August 06, 2009, 11:51:43 AM
Mudflation.  The bane of level-based games since forever.  (Or at least the '80s...)


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Ingmar on August 06, 2009, 11:52:52 AM
That makes no sense.

In order to do content X, you need gear of Y quality. Blizzard wants lots of people to be able to do content X, so they give people gear of Y quality.

I mean I guess they could re-jigger the system so that the gear from normal raids is 'blue' and the gear from heroic/hardmode raids is 'purple' but that seems like a lot of work just to make the hardmode people feel more secure in their epeen.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 06, 2009, 12:00:55 PM
And you lack any progression in loot.

The reason for baseline loot giveaway passes is to make sure the upcoming content is still accessible. If Icecrown is balanced around Naxx10 gear, you'll have raiders thinking OHGODTHISISTOOEASY. If it's balanced around ToGC25 gear, anyone who hasn't cleared that won't be able to see the new content.

Is purple devalued? Yes, and rightly. It should have no intrinsic value to start with as far as colors go. Ilvl is a much better method of declaring quality.

ToC has served it's purpose amazingly well. My lock is at 2k spellpower self buffed now. I hit 80 on.. monday.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Paelos on August 06, 2009, 12:29:56 PM
We're taking time off of our 25 man run to focus on 10 mans, heroics, and badge upgrading. Why? Because that makes more sense right now than running Ulduar ever did. I've said it a zillion times already, but linear dungeons that have more than 6 bosses in them are not well-designed. You should want to do the bosses in order due to the ease and the reward gains, but you should also be able to face off against the last boss in the place if your group is well-geared and tuned enough to do it. Forced blocks and making people rekill the same old shit over and over again is the single-worst design flaw of most Blizzard instances.

Now, if there are less than 6 bosses in one place, this isn't much of a deal. It's slightly annoying, but it doesn't usually take more than a day to finish it off once you have things on farm. This tournament is an interesting move in the right direction. Five bosses, no trash, with a linear design. The only thing that would improve the model in my view would be to have a kind of instance where the players can choose which of the five fights they want to face rather than just doing them in order. That kind of power would make the game so very much better and simpler.

There really isn't any reason for the Blizzard developers to force players to kill everything in the damn place anymore. You don't need to try to make us spend more time in the game. We're already hopelessly hooked by now in most cases. Make clearing out the dungeon part of epeen achievements and whatnot, but get rid of the kill order mentality. It's completely outdated and unnecessary in the current raiding situation.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Jayce on August 06, 2009, 12:51:15 PM
I, too think that the proliferation of epics is fine and good. But at the same time I see the point that in terms of ilvl, purples probably have the widest spread.

Certain raids like ZG used to drop mostly blues and a few purples.  If they didn't adjust ilvl but did widen the range for blues to encompass some of the lower currently purple items, it would have the effect of making blues, including ones from quests, seem more desirable.

Given that it would also devalue raiders' (even casual raiders') epeen, combined with the thirst for new shiny, maybe it'd be better to introduce a new color, an epic-epic if you will, that casuals can get but not from the loot-pinata style bosses.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 06, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
ZG was a massive fuck you to casual raiding, by the by. At least when it came out. It was widely accepted as massively harder than any other content out at the time, and had a 70-80% chance per kill to drop blues. They were nice blues, but the reason we've switched to "everything is epic" is that it pretty much was saying "yeah, you worked harder for this, but it's still not 40 people, so haha."

If you make an epic-epic that casuals can obtain, everyone will be wearing epic-epics within a month, and it's still meaningless.

Eventually you just have to accept that loot color is a completely meaningless thing, and everything worth linking is purple. Everything else is a shard in disguise, or "Of Spirit", because our guild is fucking cursed.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 06, 2009, 01:56:29 PM
What a couple people said above, item color is meaningless now.  What I'm saying is that's stupid because the casual are still going to be seperated from the hardcore, they just switched the standard to ilvl instead.  They already have an item quality system in place, there's no need to change it, they might as well just take item color away because eventually people are going to catch on that their purples are the crap ones.

In theory it's a nice gesture to let everyone drive a porsche but some of those porsches have the engine of a power wheel inside, eventually people will start noticing.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Jayce on August 06, 2009, 02:08:53 PM
I cut my raiding teeth on ZG, and we considered it the entry-level at the time. This was somewhat after it came out, so maybe that's the difference.

Also, I'm not saying that everyone won't be wearing epic-epics, but a color code that's actually meaningful to tell you the rough ilevel of an item relative to the current expansion would be more usable than what we have now, which is that they gave up and just put the ilevel on the item tooltip.  Color banding wouldn't be useless if it was more exact.

And also, I don't really agree that everyone would be wearing them anyway.  People seriously misuse the word "casual" nowadays.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Rasix on August 06, 2009, 02:23:41 PM
People seriously misuse the word "casual" nowadays.

There's a guild on my server that considers themselves a "casual progression guild".  Only 3 nights a week for typically 5 hours a night.   :uhrr:  They're also #1 ranked one of the worst progression servers in the game.

I'd argue that casual raiding really almost doesn't exist unless you take it to what some consider extreme ends. 


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Fordel on August 06, 2009, 03:10:10 PM
If they reverted back to a purely colour based system, we would need like 14 shades of purple to describe all the various levels of raid gear.


"Hah, your gear is only Mullberry? Noob! I'm decked out in full Orchid biatch!"


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Rasix on August 06, 2009, 03:16:45 PM
HE'S GONE TO PLAID.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Lantyssa on August 06, 2009, 04:01:25 PM
I'd want all burgandy.  It's a good color for me.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Sheepherder on August 06, 2009, 04:09:34 PM
It's funny the way you guys toss around the welfare term like you do.

I say that with a certain degree of irony.  Nevertheless, they truly are welfare epics now, as opposed to week long BG grind-a-thons for a single piece.

Also, they really need to rethink the way they've been using iLevel rather than a colour code to distinguish between pieces.  One would think out of the 16581375 options they have they could choose some spiffy colours to distinguish relative quality.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 06, 2009, 04:58:00 PM
It's funny the way you guys toss around the welfare term like you do.

I say that with a certain degree of irony.  Nevertheless, they truly are welfare epics now, as opposed to week long BG grind-a-thons for a single piece.

Also, they really need to rethink the way they've been using iLevel rather than a colour code to distinguish between pieces.  One would think out of the 16581375 options they have they could choose some spiffy colours to distinguish relative quality.

A color system is far more confusing than a number system displaying actual exact power.

A color system is entirely flavor based.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: K9 on August 06, 2009, 05:16:39 PM
It is also bad for colour blind people.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Rasix on August 06, 2009, 05:41:14 PM
It is also bad for colour blind people.

Yah, I didn't know greens were green for a long time.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Sjofn on August 06, 2009, 05:42:16 PM
Ignis has been fixed in this patch and molten adds don't drop aggro when they turn molten. This should make him a LOT easier, as loose adds were really the only problem you could have that was hard to control.

Oh my God yaaaaaaaaaaaay!


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Ingmar on August 06, 2009, 05:42:48 PM
It is also bad for colour blind people.

Yah, I didn't know greens were green for a long time.

I always used to have to look at the armor value/dps on items to know which ones were purple and which were just blue.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Sheepherder on August 06, 2009, 08:55:05 PM
A color system is far more confusing than a number system displaying actual exact power.

A color system is entirely flavor based.

Only if you can see the numbers.  Which they've fixed, but it still doesn't explain why the hell they have both a level and a multiplier that's based on quality when they could just as easily display a single colour, or a single number.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: apocrypha on August 07, 2009, 12:24:57 AM
This brings whole new meaning to welfare epics.  The sheer amount of purple is frightening.

It's funny the way you guys toss around the welfare term like you do.  I've played this game off and on since release and still have yet to see more than two 5-man instances while they were still yellow.  It's tough, as an adult, to find people to play with when you don't have an established group.  Granted, I'm pretty unwilling to pug so I accept a lot of the blame for my own choices. 



This for sure.

9 months behind the levelling curve, limited to a couple of 1 hour sessions a day, only dinged 80 on a couple of characters a few weeks ago. I was looking at a bastard long time of rep grinds and crafting asshattery to have a chance of even getting into heroics (almost nobody runs non-heroic dungeons on my server any more).

I don't care about epics for their own sake, I just hate having so much content cockblocked off from me. Did 3 runs of this new instance yesterday, on normal, and got 4 purples that were better than any of the things I was looking at spending a month or more trying to get previously. Another couple of drops and some tweaking and I'll be happily running heroics and maybe even get to see some low-end raid content.

Oh, plus, I enjoyed the runs, it's a fun place and beautifully short  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Hindenburg on August 07, 2009, 05:57:51 AM
Hrm, grabbed a DK to try out the place. Jousting bit is...odd, seems buggy. Had just changed to a new horsie, had shields up, and was knocked out of it after a charge.
Purples per minute was awesome, though.

Also, when did they change stuff to make every raid boss drop FOUR purples? Why, back in my day you had to take FORTY people to get a shot at TWO purples, three tops /humbug.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Fabricated on August 07, 2009, 06:26:36 PM
The 5-man has pretty much been a boon for my alts. A lot of people leveling tank alts don't realize it but the new 5-man's tank loot is way, way better optimized than pretty much everything out of Naxx10/25 and even stuff from Uld10. Expertise out the ass, where pretty much nothing in Naxx10/25 had it.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Ashamanchill on August 08, 2009, 02:28:45 AM
I am really starting to fucking hate this dungeon.  Every group I get in has at least two other plate wearers to gobble up my drops.  And those fuckers roll on my tank pieces.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: apocrypha on August 08, 2009, 03:21:47 AM
Yeah but the shit drops so fast and so often that it'll only take a few days to get everything you can from it anyway. I got lucky as a mail wearer, got all the things I can (from normal anyway) in 5 runs. My brother's still after the plate chest but I'm sure it'll only take a few more runs.

Might be able to actually do some heroics now  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Fordel on August 08, 2009, 04:34:37 AM
I am really starting to fucking hate this dungeon.  Every group I get in has at least two other plate wearers to gobble up my drops.  And those fuckers roll on my tank pieces.


How is that the dungeons fault?


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 08, 2009, 09:13:55 AM
I am really starting to fucking hate this dungeon.  Every group I get in has at least two other plate wearers to gobble up my drops.  And those fuckers roll on my tank pieces.

two paladins, two DKs, and my green/blue newly 80 ass were most of my first two days of that instance. I'm decked the fuck out <3


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Rendakor on August 08, 2009, 10:22:40 AM
If you're worried about dps rolling on tank shit, just Master Loot it.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Ashamanchill on August 08, 2009, 11:15:01 AM
I am really starting to fucking hate this dungeon.  Every group I get in has at least two other plate wearers to gobble up my drops.  And those fuckers roll on my tank pieces.


How is that the dungeons fault?

It's not.  I just like pointing fingers.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Fabricated on August 08, 2009, 11:56:54 PM
This is why you get a guild of non-retards and run guild only runs.

The day it dropped our geared members grabbed 2 non geared members apiece and we hit it up with 3 groups. We ran the normal version until everything people wanted dropped. Then we switched out for alts and other non-geared guildies who haven't had a lot of luck/time and did it again.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Nebu on August 12, 2009, 10:19:03 AM
This is why you get a guild of non-retards and run guild only runs.

Please tell me how to find this.  Being in vent with most people in this game makes me want to shove a pair of scissors in my ear. 

I'm enjoying this expansion a lot, but fear I'll never see any of the 5 man content. 




Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kaid on August 12, 2009, 11:00:56 AM
The 5-man has pretty much been a boon for my alts. A lot of people leveling tank alts don't realize it but the new 5-man's tank loot is way, way better optimized than pretty much everything out of Naxx10/25 and even stuff from Uld10. Expertise out the ass, where pretty much nothing in Naxx10/25 had it.

I will second that I am sporting the pants and trinket from the 5 man non heroic as they were MUCH better itemized than the nax 10 varient. The gloves were pretty much a toss up giving up a parry for dodge in near equal amounts. The ones from the joust are probably a smidge better than the nax 10 set piece ones but pretty minimal.

The stuff I am seeing from the 5 man non heroic seems at very least good side grades to naxx gear and in many cases clear upgrades. Item level tells a lot but some stuff is just badly itemized such as the conquest badge tank pants. Screw you I do not need a ton of freaking shield block rating. Giving up so much stats for shield block value and rating makes me a sad panda.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: K9 on August 12, 2009, 11:11:46 AM
This is why you get a guild of non-retards and run guild only runs.
Please tell me how to find this.  Being in vent with most people in this game makes me want to shove a pair of scissors in my ear. 

I'm enjoying this expansion a lot, but fear I'll never see any of the 5 man content. 

I avoid vent like the plague in WoW. That said, I really like the other officers in my guild. Guild chat can get a bit tarded, but officer chat is really good since more or less everyone is 25+.

So long as you avoid spam-invite guilds, trade-channel guilds, and guilds where you should know better from the name you could do alright. Obviously it varies by server, but I'd imagine most servers will have several guilds built around people with jobs. Ultimately, as an unguilded fellow the best way to find a guild is to PuG, and use that to meet people.

With the way Blizzard have changed their raiding ethos there are now a number of casual guilds who raid only once or twice a week for a couple of hours, and will keep non-raiders on their roster, like mine. We have a majority of working adults, and although we have some kids, they're not too bad. I'd imagine that you'd be able to find a guild similar to mine, which does raid, but no-one is forced or expected to raid; and also does plenty of 5-man runs.

Also, since the proliferation of badge items it's harder to get superbad PuGs, since many people can brute-force stuff based on gear.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Hindenburg on August 12, 2009, 02:12:07 PM
I'm enjoying this expansion a lot, but fear I'll never see any of the 5 man content. 

As an unguilded DK tank, I did all of the 5mans in heroic mode in... uh... a single day. Last saturday, actually. Even got into pug VoA's and Naxx. Saw, tanked and cleared every last boss in all of the 5mans, including those I'd never seen before.
Would that have happened as a guildless dps? Maybe. We sure got loads and loads of 1.5k terribads, but that didn't stop me from completely pugging everything, so I guess they also do just fine. Healers, thanks to the wonders of dual spec, were also in ample supply and demand.

Don't worry about not seeing the 5mans, you'll manage just fine, even with pugs and text-only comm. Just play and have fun.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Rasix on August 12, 2009, 02:38:46 PM
This is why you get a guild of non-retards and run guild only runs.

Please tell me how to find this.  Being in vent with most people in this game makes me want to shove a pair of scissors in my ear.  

I'm enjoying this expansion a lot, but fear I'll never see any of the 5 man content.  


I don't use vent for 5 mans unless it's someone I know or it's a guild run (no guild anymore, so that's taken care of).  I also don't talk in vent, ever.  My mic doesn't work worth crap (unless I shout and that isn't happening), and I'm not going to spend money on a new one.

PUGing isn't completely terrible.  You can usually figure out on the way to the stone if it's going to work or not.  Taking too long and no one talking or making any initiative to get to the stone? Tank sporting a whopping 20k HP?  Generally retarded or profane chat?  Insistance that you join vent?  Someone bitching about the drops or claiming loot before you go in?  Feign a family emergency or a digestive catastrophy.

Still, I've done every thing out there save Occulus. The worst of the bunch I don't even try for anymore (OK, HOS, HOL).  Pugging 5 mans really shouldn't be that bad considering you have the same reservations about people in these games that I do for the most part. I've survived.  Some bad experiences, sure, but survived nonetheless.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Sjofn on August 12, 2009, 03:22:57 PM
Our guild is a lot like K9's. We raid twice a week for a couple of hours (usually), but we have plenty of people who don't/can't raid and it never occured to me that was bad. Raiding is more like another thing to do with guildies than THE TRUE PURPOSE OF TEH GUILD or whatever. We do have to carry some people but that only drives me a little crazy most days.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Nevermore on August 12, 2009, 03:35:08 PM
We do have to carry some people but that only drives me a little crazy most days.  :why_so_serious:

Some of us read this site too, you know!  :cry2:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Lantyssa on August 12, 2009, 03:49:04 PM
Aww. :sad:

She hasn't even had to deal with me yet.  When I catch up we can all group and have some real fun tormenting her. ;D


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: K9 on August 12, 2009, 04:39:18 PM
Our guild is a lot like K9's. We raid twice a week for a couple of hours (usually), but we have plenty of people who don't/can't raid and it never occured to me that was bad. Raiding is more like another thing to do with guildies than THE TRUE PURPOSE OF TEH GUILD or whatever. We do have to carry some people but that only drives me a little crazy most days.  :why_so_serious:

From reading what you say I have always felt that our two guilds were very alike.

On another note, we finally got our act together and got Mimiron down tonight. We also had a go in the new raid instance. 3-shot the Northrend Beasts and 2-shot the Demon. The worm phase is a little messy, but I think we're getting it. The Demon guy was piss easy in terms of execution, just needs good gear. The fights are quite fun, and thankfully short, and moreso than Ulduar I feel they stress everyone in the raid (DPS, Tanks and Healers).

On the flip side. Holydin Belt, Feral Boots and Resto Shaman Boots all gone to de.....


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: proudft on August 12, 2009, 04:42:13 PM
We do have to carry some people but that only drives me a little crazy most days.  :why_so_serious:

Some of us read this site too, you know!  :cry2:

Drop an earth elemental, it'll make her feel better.



Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Sjofn on August 12, 2009, 04:43:29 PM
We do have to carry some people but that only drives me a little crazy most days.  :why_so_serious:

Some of us read this site too, you know!  :cry2:

C'mon, you know I was talking about Fordel.

Also FUCK YOU PROUDFT


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Fordel on August 12, 2009, 04:52:43 PM
Obvious Slander!


Everyone knows I don't even go to Raids.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: proudft on August 12, 2009, 04:57:23 PM
BOOSH, HEROISM!  :drill:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 12, 2009, 06:51:31 PM
We all know she means my early aggro pulling ways.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Fordel on August 12, 2009, 07:25:22 PM
We all know she means my early aggro pulling ways.


"but it was just a debuff!  :cry: "



How long have you been playing this game!  :angryfist:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Rasix on August 12, 2009, 07:54:19 PM
Get a room.  All of you.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Sjofn on August 12, 2009, 09:21:51 PM
If only our guild line was this lovey.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Hindenburg on August 12, 2009, 09:26:20 PM
Oh I'm sure he's already got his cursor hovering over the transfer button, or eagerly awaiting the paid faction switch.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 12, 2009, 10:48:00 PM
If only our guild line was this lovey.

Sometimes it gets lovey-er than this!

At which point everyone stares at the screen and likes to pretend it didn't happen.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 18, 2009, 10:41:27 AM
Raiding has become schizoprhenic. It's got the hardcore content mentality, but after the serious raid guilds are done with it, Blizz wants the casuals to be able to "leapfrog" and get caught up in gear for the next dungeon/event/whatever.

It feels like the hardore/serious/casual gap is closing fast, and Blizz is constantly band-aiding it now.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: kildorn on August 18, 2009, 10:51:32 AM
Raiding has become schizoprhenic. It's got the hardcore content mentality, but after the serious raid guilds are done with it, Blizz wants the casuals to be able to "leapfrog" and get caught up in gear for the next dungeon/event/whatever.

It feels like the hardore/serious/casual gap is closing fast, and Blizz is constantly band-aiding it now.

The leapfrogging has less to do with anything being off as much as trying to make new content accessable. This patch was a gap closer (and alt-gearer) for the next raid content patch. Because they've moved well beyond the idea of making raiding a linear progression, because it just doesn't Work. If you keep adding raids with new tiers and no fast way for people to catch up, you wind up with all the guilds running Tier 10 content, and a mess of 80s who would like to do so having a bitch of a time getting farm raids for Tier 7, 8, and 9. It's far easier every raid or two to introduce a method of baselining the playerbase to the point of being able to do new and upcoming content without beating nails into their balls for six to eight months.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Jayce on August 18, 2009, 11:14:53 AM
If you keep adding raids with new tiers and no fast way for people to catch up, you wind up with all the guilds running Tier 10 content, and a mess of 80s who would like to do so having a bitch of a time getting farm raids for Tier 7, 8, and 9. It's far easier every raid or two to introduce a method of baselining the playerbase to the point of being able to do new and upcoming content without beating nails into their balls for six to eight months.

Additionally, the hardcorest guilds lose a few people to attrition and suddenly all they can do are poach players from competing guilds or go on candy runs to gear up new 80s or alts, which might just as easily disappear rather than end up being solid raiders.  And meanwhile they can't run what they really want due to a lack of highly geared players.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Ratman_tf on August 18, 2009, 01:18:12 PM
Yeah, but then you get a situation like mine where I lost interest in gearing up in Ulduar because I knew the gear was going to be made welfare along with the next tier of content.

Not that I have a better solution. I just point and go "lol mudflation".


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Paelos on August 18, 2009, 02:44:16 PM
I think it's actually better that way. If I don't like an iteration of content (like Ulduar), then I don't have to bother running it into the ground so I can do the next set of stuff (like Crusader). So far I'm having 10x the amount of fun in the Trials than I ever had in Ulduar.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Vash on August 18, 2009, 02:57:19 PM
If you keep adding raids with new tiers and no fast way for people to catch up, you wind up with all the guilds running Tier 10 content, and a mess of 80s who would like to do so having a bitch of a time getting farm raids for Tier 7, 8, and 9. It's far easier every raid or two to introduce a method of baselining the playerbase to the point of being able to do new and upcoming content without beating nails into their balls for six to eight months.

Additionally, the hardcorest guilds lose a few people to attrition and suddenly all they can do are poach players from competing guilds or go on candy runs to gear up new 80s or alts, which might just as easily disappear rather than end up being solid raiders.  And meanwhile they can't run what they really want due to a lack of highly geared players.

Yeah, this basically killed TBC for me.  Was having a good time raiding and progressing through T5 in a fun and skilled guild, which happened to be the 2nd most progressed Alliance guild on my server at the time.  Then not long after we hit the Lady Vashj & Kael checkpoint the top guild on the server begins poaching key members, like our Warlock tank who had been given priority on T5 gear.  Progression then grinds to a halt while we try to find and gear up replacements which are few and far between.  Apparently the top guild is full of jerks who have a hard time getting people to put up with them for long periods as the poaching becomes a vicious continuous cycle.  After weeks/months of being used as a stepping stone that only exists to gear people up for the top guild more and more core guild members stop playing in disgust or re-roll/transfer.  I stuck it out longer than I should have but left before the eventual implosion.  After that burnout I was basically done with the game until WAR went full retard and I decided to come back and play with RL friends in WoTLK.

I'll take mudflation and any other side effects of increased accessibility / gear resets if it helps prevent situations like that from reoccurring in any possible way.

Yeah, but then you get a situation like mine where I lost interest in gearing up in Ulduar because I knew the gear was going to be made welfare along with the next tier of content.

Not that I have a better solution. I just point and go "lol mudflation".

I haven't lost interest at all since "lol badges" is only going to provide you with T8 equivalent gear for at best 5 or 6 of your 16/17 gear slots, and not at a fast pace either unless your planning to run heroics everyday/Naxx till your eyes bleed.  Not to mention other than the T8 helm and chest, nothing you can get with badges is really best in slot type items, or that you can't get weapons from badges.  I highly doubt crafted/argent tourney/Naxx(10) weapons are gonna carry you through Crusaders Coliseum and into Icecrown Citadel.

I just look at it as a nice way to help ungimp yourself anywhere the loot gods and RNG have let you down as well as gear up alts you may want to raid with.  I should probably mention I have no problem with "brute forcing" content through mudflation if it means actually getting to see it with friends while having fun.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Sjofn on August 18, 2009, 04:13:28 PM
I've been healing ToC with my druid in the hopes to make his heal suit not total shit. What I have wound up with so far is a great feral suit.  :drillf: Happily, his "real" spec is bear tank so I don't really mind.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Fordel on August 18, 2009, 04:24:38 PM
Seriously, all our druids have full feral suits now it seems.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Lantyssa on August 18, 2009, 05:50:14 PM
I don't. :sad:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Fordel on August 18, 2009, 05:57:46 PM
I don't. :sad:



You aren't even big enough to go inside the place yet!

Your own fault!  :raspberry:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Frax on August 20, 2009, 01:28:47 PM
Raiding has become schizoprhenic. It's got the hardcore content mentality, but after the serious raid guilds are done with it, Blizz wants the casuals to be able to "leapfrog" and get caught up in gear for the next dungeon/event/whatever.

It feels like the hardore/serious/casual gap is closing fast, and Blizz is constantly band-aiding it now.

It's nothing new, they did the same thing with PVP gear IIRC a short while before TBC came out.


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Azazel on August 22, 2009, 11:55:52 PM
Our guild is a lot like K9's. We raid twice a week for a couple of hours (usually), but we have plenty of people who don't/can't raid and it never occured to me that was bad. Raiding is more like another thing to do with guildies than THE TRUE PURPOSE OF TEH GUILD or whatever. We do have to carry some people but that only drives me a little crazy most days.  :why_so_serious:

I wish you people were on our server. And played in our timezone-times.

I might not have quit wow back in Jan.
 :sad_panda:


Title: Re: Crusaders Coliseum aka Purple Rain
Post by: Fordel on August 23, 2009, 01:07:41 AM
You could play with our Crazy Shaman that stays awake for 3 days then sleeps for a entire day.


He would really appreciate the company, he gets lonely   :cry: