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Title: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Phildo on July 24, 2009, 12:31:57 PM An empire carebear alliance was convinced that they were being given some space in Delve to hang out and blue standings. When they showed up, what hadn't already been transferred to Jihadswarm agents was annihilated.
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/battles/1448 Quote [ 2009.07.24 03:31:45 ] Im Better > we all died [ 2009.07.24 03:31:52 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > some alliance beca [ 2009.07.24 03:31:58 ] Im Better > >< [ 2009.07.24 03:32:02 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > get out of my chanel [ 2009.07.24 03:32:14 ] darkcrisp > FUCK [ 2009.07.24 03:32:16 ] darkcrisp > fUCK [ 2009.07.24 03:32:19 ] darkcrisp > FUCK [ 2009.07.24 03:32:20 ] Princess Aelmus > Calm down [ 2009.07.24 03:32:25 ] darkcrisp > FUCKING AMBUSH [ 2009.07.24 03:32:27 ] Princess Aelmus > dont give them the satisfaction [ 2009.07.24 03:33:16 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > WELL BECA WHAT DO U HAVE TO SAY FOR UR BUDDIES [ 2009.07.24 03:34:05 ] Marcus Kerensky > Well played Von. [ 2009.07.24 03:34:08 ] Marcus Kerensky > My hats off to you. [ 2009.07.24 03:34:14 ] Im Better > FUK THIS [ 2009.07.24 03:34:20 ] Marcus Kerensky > Thank you for bringing my eve career to an end. [ 2009.07.24 03:34:26 ] Princess Aelmus > look guys stop giving them the satisfaction of this [ 2009.07.24 03:34:29 ] Marcus Kerensky > Goon accomplished their goal. [ 2009.07.24 03:36:19 ] Princess Aelmus > not completely they are probably waiting for our reaction i mean that is the whole goal of there game [ 2009.07.24 03:36:42 ] ligh nort > dude they got alot [ 2009.07.24 03:36:50 ] ligh nort > every bpo bpc i had [ 2009.07.24 03:36:57 ] ligh nort > 28 bil [ 2009.07.24 03:37:01 ] ligh nort > just from me [ 2009.07.24 03:37:03 ] NovaGrand > mhm that was the plan [ 2009.07.24 03:37:12 ] ligh nort > then the stuff that pan had too [ 2009.07.24 03:37:27 ] Princess Aelmus > well we gotta just move on okay you probs think i am being iratianal [ 2009.07.24 03:37:32 ] Princess Aelmus > but we gotta hold tight [ 2009.07.24 03:44:14 ] darkcrisp > bravo von bravo [ 2009.07.24 03:44:55 ] Uncle Hybrid > ^_^ Well, back down from a Vexor to a Imicus. [ 2009.07.24 03:44:55 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > U FUCKING FAG ASS FUCK I CANT WAIT TILL MY LEGACY WALKS ALL OVER YALLS MUNKEY ASSES [ 2009.07.24 03:45:04 ] Uncle Hybrid > ... [ 2009.07.24 03:45:36 ] Pandora's Shadow > this is why i made a fall back recovery plan [ 2009.07.24 03:45:41 ] Princess Aelmus > haha [ 2009.07.24 03:46:03 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > WHAT THE FUCK IM GONNA YARRRRRRR I SWEAR IT MAN I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE [ 2009.07.24 03:46:39 ] ligh nort2 > what revenge we totaly got pwned like a bunch of cattle vs wolves [ 2009.07.24 03:46:50 ] Pandora's Shadow > guess ill keep it to myself then ... [ 2009.07.24 03:47:05 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > WHAT PLAN HOMMIE NOT SECURE HERE I've gone ahead and bolded what I think are the funny parts. Title: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Meester on July 24, 2009, 02:31:11 PM Now thats comedy.
Will the isk generated from this carebear population control program be used against Triumvirate. and HUN Reloaded (Hun sometimes ally with Tri?)? Title: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Reg on July 24, 2009, 03:29:07 PM This stuff is what keeps me the hell out of Goonfleet. This and the juvenile "ur a fag" nonsense.
Title: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Kovacs on July 24, 2009, 04:01:21 PM I've gone ahead and bolded what I think are the funny parts. It's not really the scam so much, although obviously really shitty thing to do to a family style guild but.. eh whatever, live through it or die. Who would want to be surounded by people who thought those quotes really were funny? Not me. Title: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Thrawn on July 24, 2009, 04:02:47 PM Will the isk generated from this carebear population control program be used against Triumvirate. and HUN Reloaded (Hun sometimes ally with Tri?)? Isk will probably go into the pockets of whoever did the scam. GF has more isk then it knows what to do with. :uhrr: Title: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Phildo on July 24, 2009, 04:24:48 PM Sorry, but this particular quote is funny:
Quote [ 2009.07.24 03:44:55 ] AMERICANSLIMSHADY > U FUCKING FAG ASS FUCK I CANT WAIT TILL MY LEGACY WALKS ALL OVER YALLS MUNKEY ASSES Title: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Trigona on July 25, 2009, 07:06:53 AM This stuff is what keeps me the hell out of Goonfleet. This and the juvenile "ur a fag" nonsense. This behaviour imo is pathetic and although I enjoy the flying with the goons (in joint opps), I just hate this scamming ethos. For me mmos are about the social bonds that are forged between friends and enemies. The goons don't need the isk, they don't have a hatred of the people they ripp off, they just do it cause they're dickheads. Schadenfreude - it's lame and immature. Title: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Reg on July 25, 2009, 07:22:15 AM I think it's more a community building thing than because they're just dickheads. This kind of stuff makes it easier to separate themselves from everyone else and lets them heighten their own identity. Because "everyone else" is stupid and falls for scams. Because "everyone else" hates the Goons.
Title: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Endie on July 25, 2009, 07:23:51 AM Goonswarm is a broad church, and the attitude of the leadership is that you can do what you like to neutrals or hostiles (our allies are sacrosanct). So you get people who like fleet ops (GFFL), people who like griefing-oriented PvP (Jihadswarm), people who like making space riches (97.4% of our worthless alliance), people who like roaming gangs and, yes, people who like scamming. CCP made that a fundamental part of the game. It was in their UO roots, they created the mechanics in a way that encourages it, and they steadfastly remove to punichs it, whether it is recruitment scamming or ponzi schemes. I don't do it and I don't really feel anything but kinda :shobon: for the victims, but I accept that it is part of what makes Eve, Eve. The game has already moved too far towards safety and consequence-free gameplay for most of the playerbase, and I'd be loath to see this sort of thing go.
Our enemies like it, anyway: it gives us a reputation with ignorant empire pubbies for ultimate evil, so when some emo retards like God Chaser or Shiu want an excuse to give up responsibility before they receive a hammering they can tell lies like "Goons phoned my house and threatened to kill my family" and a few people will buy it. Our own website says on the front page that if a goon is asking you for money on something like this you're probably being scammed. Our alliance description very often says the same thing for weeks at a time. Honestly, apathetic bloody alliances. If they can't be bothered to take an interest in local affairs... Title: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Trigona on July 25, 2009, 07:41:31 AM All the goons I have got to know through these forums and in game I have the utmost respect for and I'm glad ccp allow p. much anything to be ok. I guess I'd prefer people I like not to to indulge in behaviour that I disapprove of.
On a side note, the road trip that MM was going to take has been postponed for a couple of weeks. Too many people in alliance want to fight war targets in Tribute or refill their wallets. When we do go on holiday I'm sure we'll be fighting with the goons once again. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: NiX on July 25, 2009, 11:14:03 AM I'm still surprised people give Goons money when they promise something. Its been going on for how long now? I'm sorry, but people just need to learn to smarten the fuck up.
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Murgos on July 25, 2009, 11:27:17 AM The general idea among goons is that if you get scammed by a goon it's your own damned fault. There are plenty of 'Warning Goons scam the shit out of everyone." notices out there.
Part of what makes that chat log so funny is that you can tell they more than half expected to be scammed in the first place and yet they went through with it. As far as supporting the play style goes though, one of the things that makes Goonswarm what it is is the inclusive nature of their membership. Just follow the published method for joining goonswarm and you're in. So, the leadership has to make room for everyone. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Reg on July 25, 2009, 11:28:46 AM Well yes of course people need to smarten up. It doesn't mean I have to laugh along while a bunch of gloating goons giggle and smirk over how they spoiled the game for someone whose greatest crime was being naive and uninformed.
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Phildo on July 25, 2009, 12:50:30 PM Woo, threadsplit! Sorry 'bout that one, Yoru.
Reg, being naive and uninformed while wanting to get involved in 0.0 is pretty negligent on anyone's part. The harshness of that part of the game is very well documented and pretty much anyone who knows anything about Eve should be aware of what it's like. Only flying what you can afford to lose and being aware that anything can kill you are the first two lessons anyone should learn in Eve. I do feel bad for them on some levels which is why I'm not a scammer myself, but one of the fundamental joys of Eve for me is being able to point at a killboard and say "Look at this shit I just helped kill, and look how upset they were about it." If I ever threaten that my legacy will walk all over y'alls munkey asses or quit the game because I lost some expensive ships, please call me out on that publicly. Furthermore, this is F13 and we're supposed to make fun of people with horrendous spelling of words like "iratianal" and net handles like AMERICANSLIMSHADY. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Goumindong on July 25, 2009, 12:51:32 PM I find it funny that people complain that people scam, but don't complain when a neutral flies a ship into an area and gets blown up.
There is pretty much no difference. If you are not blue, you will get destroyed in any way as a target of opportunity. Now, if the people doing this were official goonswarm representatives who are tasked with making the political decisions for the swarm then there might be a case, but that would only be a case of "foolish political strategy" rather than any sort of immoral act. We play a game where the main point is to blow the other guy up and take their stuff, deal with it Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Reg on July 25, 2009, 12:56:31 PM I realize how terribly out of step I am with prevailing sentiments here. That's why I normally am careful to avoid the threads where you all congratulate each other on how clever you are and how stupid everyone else is.
I just couldn't avoid this particular one because it appeared in the War thread. I guess I'll go "deal with it." Have fun. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: rand on July 25, 2009, 02:51:04 PM This stuff is what keeps me the hell out of Goonfleet. This and the juvenile "ur a fag" nonsense. This behaviour imo is pathetic and although I enjoy the flying with the goons (in joint opps), I just hate this scamming ethos. For me mmos are about the social bonds that are forged between friends and enemies. The goons don't need the isk, they don't have a hatred of the people they ripp off, they just do it cause they're dickheads. Schadenfreude - it's lame and immature. scamming is a type of social bond that involves owning pubbies yall grandmas Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: NiX on July 25, 2009, 03:04:35 PM I realize how terribly out of step I am with prevailing sentiments here. That's why I normally am careful to avoid the threads where you all congratulate each other on how clever you are and how stupid everyone else is. I just couldn't avoid this particular one because it appeared in the War thread. I guess I'll go "deal with it." Have fun. I didn't congratulate them, but you keep on trucking with that sand castle in your vagina. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Strazos on July 25, 2009, 03:33:26 PM I just think it is cool that you can scam at all, though I don't do it myself.
Warfare - More than just Blowing Shit Up. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Marcus kerensky on July 25, 2009, 05:44:46 PM I saw this the day it posted, just in the chaos of our debacle I didn't have time to reply. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of "live, learn, and rebuild". My thoughts on quitting were mostly based around the idea that I have had of late, that I need a new time sink. The beauty of our alliance, as one person pointed out, is that it is very much a family. I must have received 40+ phone calls from my pilots, not 30 seconds after the last kill, asking me to stay, that we would rebuild. For that I am grateful beyond words.
I made a mistake trusting Goons, but they played the part perfectly, down to things like exchanges of photos of the transaction, a contract that my attorney GF would be proud of, and a phone number to the Goon rep who recruited us, complete with a title that looked legit. I searched forums, blogs, read threads till my eyes bled, looking for some evidence of this having been done before, to no avail. So my thought was, "What the hell, why not?" All in all, I was very impressed with the amount of effort that went into it, (Almost 3 weeks) and despite the fact that I almost was able to jump my carrier out, I'm glad I lost it. Goon taught us an important lesson, travel light, and be willing to lose your ship, implants and ISK. Just never lose your perspective. As for SHADY, trust me, he gets his for his name... =P -Service- MK Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Thrawn on July 25, 2009, 05:56:00 PM For 10 billion isk I can get all of your stuff back for you. :awesome_for_real:
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Endie on July 25, 2009, 06:07:39 PM I saw this the day it posted, just in the chaos of our debacle I didn't have time to reply. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of "live, learn, and rebuild". My thoughts on quitting were mostly based around the idea that I have had of late, that I need a new time sink. The beauty of our alliance, as one person pointed out, is that it is very much a family. I must have received 40+ phone calls from my pilots, not 30 seconds after the last kill, asking me to stay, that we would rebuild. For that I am grateful beyond words. I made a mistake trusting Goons, but they played the part perfectly, down to things like exchanges of photos of the transaction, a contract that my attorney GF would be proud of, and a phone number to the Goon rep who recruited us, complete with a title that looked legit. I searched forums, blogs, read threads till my eyes bled, looking for some evidence of this having been done before, to no avail. So my thought was, "What the hell, why not?" All in all, I was very impressed with the amount of effort that went into it, (Almost 3 weeks) and despite the fact that I almost was able to jump my carrier out, I'm glad I lost it. Goon taught us an important lesson, travel light, and be willing to lose your ship, implants and ISK. Just never lose your perspective. As for SHADY, trust me, he gets his for his name... =P -Service- MK Good for you, chief. You have two obvious options at this point: 1) work hard, get it back (and more) and know that those that help to do so are pretty committed. Build it into your history, your identity, and profit from that in more important ways than ISK. 2) Insert a spy into us in return and fuck us up. Not easy to steal stuff back on a grand scale since GS is so paranoid, but possible. Probably easier to feed intel. Fair's fair, and most of us would be nothing other than amused if you managed. Especially if you did it to DS1 or Battlestars. Don't sign your posts, though. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Phildo on July 25, 2009, 07:37:06 PM Oh shit, hey Marcus. You're handling this much better than other people have in the past. Kudos.
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Slayerik on July 25, 2009, 08:54:32 PM For 10 billion isk I can get all of your stuff back for you. :awesome_for_real: Kinda reminds me of the idiot that put an 80 million bounty on me after suicide ganking. And sent a tough guy mail about it. Seriously? Are you that fucking dumb? Thanks for turning a 500 million gank into a 575 million gank (after clone). Eve rules because of it's ruthlessness. Without it, I probably would have sold my accounts by now. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Setanta on July 25, 2009, 09:01:51 PM Wow - nice scam. Just when you think you see human nature at its worst, EVE pops up and teaches a new lesson :)
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: gryeyes on July 25, 2009, 09:07:45 PM Its so blatantly stupid that "scam" does not even seem the right word. Marcus seems like a good guy and has an awesome attitude about the situation. But I cant think of a set of circumstances more dubious. All of the assurances granted still fall into the category of trusting people who define themselves by their cockfaggery to outsiders.
The transcript immedietly made me think of. (http://storage.kanshin.com/free/img_2/28941/544693236.jpg) IT WAS A FUCKING AMBUSH! Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: WindupAtheist on July 25, 2009, 09:52:08 PM I think Marcus needs to get that one guy to post here, the "WHAT THE FUCK IM GONNA YARRRRRRR" guy. That shit was hilarious and I want more.
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Yoru on July 25, 2009, 10:29:08 PM scamming is a type of social bond that involves owning pubbies yall grandmas Stop posting. No, I mean entirely, forever. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: MahrinSkel on July 25, 2009, 10:33:12 PM Don't sign your posts, though. What?--Dave (damn kids, get off my information superhighway) Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Phildo on July 25, 2009, 10:47:28 PM Don't sign your posts, though. What?--Dave (damn kids, get off my information superhighway) -Bring the noise Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: NiX on July 25, 2009, 11:02:08 PM -Bring the noise Pussies! Do it the manly way... (http://files.getdropbox.com/u/41161/240256.gif) Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Phildo on July 25, 2009, 11:32:35 PM -Bring the noise Pussies! Do it the manly way... (http://files.getdropbox.com/u/41161/240256.gif) Barely restraining myself from throwing every Goon meme in the book at you right now. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: NiX on July 25, 2009, 11:42:50 PM Barely restraining myself from throwing every Goon meme in the book at you right now. This isn't about goons. It's about FREEDOM! Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Amarr HM on July 26, 2009, 07:12:32 AM Main thing that puts me off the scamming is the amount of time you need to invest in doing it and judging by Markus' post a lot of time went into this particular one.
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Sparky on July 26, 2009, 08:28:39 AM Yeah I've read about genuine 419 scams that took less :effort:. Good job goons are too nerdy and socially awkward for real world criminality.
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Marcus kerensky on July 26, 2009, 01:22:19 PM Ok, this was a genuine scam, this isn't a goon forum post about a scam they'd like to pull, nor have I asked for ISK, or suggested anyone should help me out. Second, why are people trolling about BSRs loss if we aren't? Third, it seems to me that all the Goons really want is a challenge. It's like a highschool full of ADHD teenagers came over and demanded to be entertained. Unfortunately, I think that the sad fact is that most Goons are right, most eve players are stupid, and/or Greedy, and they prove this time and again. So my guess is that most of the hatred toward Goons comes from the fact that they're are the biggest, and have the best space. They got it by being the most ruthless, and best at fleet combat. Oh, and they NEVER lost perspective. Take a lesson people. All Goons did was teach me how to win...
As a side not, this is not what you want to see when you jump to a "friendly POS".... http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d36/ThaddeusGrey/20090724032150.jpg Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Trigona on July 26, 2009, 03:40:02 PM The goons have good leadership and are very loyal to their allies. This counts for a lot in a game like eve.
They didn't get to own Delve by being the best at fleet combat, imo they're no better or worse than a number of other alliances, but they are excellent in working with a disparate group of alliances and wielding them into a massive club that beat Kenny senseless. The problem re goon scams is that if you're not on the blue list then anything goes, no matter how pathetic or mean. I think most eve players agree that the ability to be total dickheads in this game is one of its more interesting features, it just seems that ripping you guys off is the equivalent of torturing a puppy. I'm glad that you plan to get even, may I suggest you join the Something Awful forums and for 5 mnths or so post everywhere on a regular basis but nothing on the goonfleet threads. Then apply to join goonfleet and engineer your revenge. It's very important that you don't appear to be joining the forums just to get into gf, I'm sure you're smart enough and pissed enough to be able to work out the best way to make this plan come to fruition. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Strazos on July 26, 2009, 05:58:42 PM Just make sure you leave LOVEU unscathed. :grin:
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Murgos on July 26, 2009, 06:06:06 PM There is a better than average chance you can get a Titan out of GS at least. I mean, people who are barely trying to fuck goons manage to get a Titan.
Anyway, the problem with revenge scamming goons is that the ones laughing at you now will laugh Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Phildo on July 26, 2009, 06:45:46 PM You guys who are in Goonswarm should think twice before you publicly advise someone on how to get into and scam Goonswarm. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Slyfeind on July 26, 2009, 10:23:34 PM I'm glad that you plan to get even, may I suggest you join the Something Awful forums and for 5 mnths or so post everywhere on a regular basis but nothing on the goonfleet threads. Then apply to join goonfleet and engineer your revenge. It's very important that you don't appear to be joining the forums just to get into gf, I'm sure you're smart enough and pissed enough to be able to work out the best way to make this plan come to fruition. See, this. I mean really. Has anyone ever gotten revenge on GS, or do they just complain on forums and chat? Yes, it's "reducing yourself to their level," but that's what games like Eve are about, and holy crap, that's one of the reasons we play games. We have a chance to purge ourselves of the crap that we can't do in real life, exercise skills we don't get to use, in a relatively safe environment. In every game, it is ethical and very much expected to take advantage of your enemies' weaknesses. I'd say it's a vice if you don't do this. Just always keep in mind any revenge will probably backfire anyway, and you'll be good. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Endie on July 27, 2009, 02:37:09 AM You guys who are in Goonswarm should think twice before you publicly advise someone on how to get into and scam Goonswarm. Just sayin'. Trigona is NC, not Goonfleet. Any goons posting actual advice on the technical details of how to infiltrate GF are giong to get an early-morning phonecall from Vio. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Trigona on July 27, 2009, 05:23:09 AM The goons say they are hopeless at eve, that the scamming pubbies is one of the harmless pranks that they like to indulge in, another prank being the ganking of empire miners; after all it's just a silly game of internet spaceships. Who cares that they go out of their way to ruin the fun of others in a nihilistic fashion - the tears of pubbies sustain them and makes eve worth playing.
Ha and double ha! The reality is that eve is a very serious game and the goons play hard and play to win. The thought that the tables might be turned on them is not something that they want to contemplate. If ripping off and being ripped off is just good fun I wonder why the goons take their security so seriously and go to such efforts to minimise spying and infiltration. Surely just for comedy value they should make rip offs against themselves a little bit easier. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Amarr HM on July 27, 2009, 05:28:21 AM Silly miners minding their own business who do they think they are? This is Eve remember :drill:
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Sparky on July 27, 2009, 05:37:59 AM I wonder why the goons take their security so seriously and go to such efforts to minimise spying and infiltration. You mean like letting in literally anyone who coughs up :10bux:? Goons have been ripped off many, many times by the way - most notably by Remedial and Suas. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Trigona on July 27, 2009, 06:03:11 AM Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the recruitment scam unique to the goons? And I believe that because it's such an unusual process that the goons manage to catch so many people. I've played many mmos and no other corp/guild that I'm aware of has a similar recruitment policy.
The goons salve their conscience saying that their unusual recruitment policy is not a secret and is well publicised, well I think the number of people who get caught out indicates that it is not as obvious as they like to pretend it is. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: NiX on July 27, 2009, 06:54:31 AM The goons salve their conscience saying that their unusual recruitment policy is not a secret and is well publicised, well I think the number of people who get caught out indicates that it is not as obvious as they like to pretend it is. People are lazy and naive. Especially MMO gamers. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Thrawn on July 27, 2009, 08:46:48 AM This thread really make me want to dust off a few ships for suicide ganking. :drill:
The tears from it are so wonderfull. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: WindupAtheist on July 27, 2009, 09:32:48 AM ITT: Everyone who is not a goon tries to come up with advice on how to destroy goons. Because fuck it, goons are fun but it's not like they don't have it coming.
As you're making yourself a known face on the SA boards, it couldn't hurt to spend a couple months in a goon WoW guild or something like that. If you have a high level WoW (or whatever game) character already, transfer them to the goon server. If not, try to level one up quickly. Once you have a high level character in the goon guild, spend most of your time giving instances runs and crap to the lowbie alts of established members. This is a great way to make friends and become known as being a stand-up dude. Then when it's time to go "Oh what is this Eve game about?" anyone who tries to look into your background will see that you've been around for months, you've played other games with goons, and that you're supposed to be a swell guy. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Sir T on July 27, 2009, 09:37:07 AM Ironicly theres a threadon this very forum http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=17475.0 entitled "Emails from an asshole" that basicly is about a guy doing more or less the same stuff and people are cheering him on. Go figure.
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Slyfeind on July 27, 2009, 09:49:16 AM The sad thing is, most people who are scammed by anyone in any game just want to forget about it and move on. :(
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: bhodi on July 27, 2009, 10:26:28 AM There are two interesting things you'll discover if you try and counter-scam.
The first is that goonfleet has a huge habit of turning spies native. They go in initially to spy and discover that it's about a million times better than whatever they were spying for. Either you "get" the community and fit in and discover that it's actually a pretty fucking good place to live or you are ostracized and outed. The second is that goons themselves will steal anything not nailed down. They are also suspicious, untrusting, fickle, insular, and quick to take delight in someone's misery. If you were ever able to steal something, the victim would simply get laughed at a bit and everyone would move on in a week. No one really cares and so there's no way to take "revenge" in a tit-for-tat sort of way. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Fordel on July 28, 2009, 03:37:26 PM Haven't the Goons already had like 3 Titan thefts and multi billion ISK corp thefts?
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: FatuousTwat on July 28, 2009, 03:38:50 PM I think more than 3 now? I don't really keep track.
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Endie on July 28, 2009, 03:50:57 PM Haven't the Goons already had like 3 Titan thefts and multi billion ISK corp thefts? The only ones i can think of are all by senior goons who developed entitlement issues. Most notably Remedial, Suas and that guy who got bored fuelling towers. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Trigona on July 28, 2009, 04:32:51 PM . If you were ever able to steal something, the victim would simply get laughed at a bit and everyone would move on in a week. No one really cares and so there's no way to take "revenge" in a tit-for-tat sort of way. I think this is just another goon meme such as "we're no good at this game". If you manage to sell the concept you basically eliminate the gut wrenching blow that occurs when you've been betrayed by someone you thought you could trust. Being betrayed is never fun unless it happens to someone else. The goons are very bonded and tight due to the SA forums and their tribal mentality, in fact Mittens claims this is why they are immune to failure cascade. I believe being on the receiving end of a betrayal of trust would hurt them as much as any one else if not more. Gl selling the concept that it won't, unfortunately I fear you will be successful. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Endie on July 28, 2009, 04:52:50 PM . If you were ever able to steal something, the victim would simply get laughed at a bit and everyone would move on in a week. No one really cares and so there's no way to take "revenge" in a tit-for-tat sort of way. I think this is just another goon meme such as "we're no good at this game". If you manage to sell the concept you basically eliminate the gut wrenching blow that occurs when you've been betrayed by someone you thought you could trust. Being betrayed is never fun unless it happens to someone else. The goons are very bonded and tight due to the SA forums and their tribal mentality, in fact Mittens claims this is why they are immune to failure cascade. I believe being on the receiving end of a betrayal of trust would hurt them as much as any one else if not more. Gl selling the concept that it won't, unfortunately I fear you will be successful. I can promise you that while some goons might get upset, the general attitude is really one of unforced hilarity, and of trolling those who get worked up. I could (if it weren't so :effort:) quote you pages of such reactions to such events. Remedial and Suas had, along with Sesfan, the greatest cults of personality in goonfleet's history. If you were an enemy given the choice of anyone to take out, those would be the ones you'd choose. But I was around for neither and each drama was absolutely lapped up. You're right that this is a meme that makes goons more robust in the face of such events, but it is thoroughly internalised. The same, of course, applies to the "we are awful at this game". Yes, many of the most experienced (and highest skill-point) players in the game are in GF; yes, we have arguably the best logistics in the game; as Mahrin has pointed out we have an unusually effective internal market and economic structure, and so on. But we tell people and ourselves that we are awful, which shatters their morale when we discover that we can beat them, while leading to us being relatively unaffected by the occasional welp day. The one betrayal that did have an effect was that by AAA when they launched their surprise attack. But our membership grew by about 15% inside weeks, as people rushed back to the game: the "wobble" lasted only a few hours. Soon, Suas turned up with his guitar, while UNL, Rebellion and ZAF announced they were with us and had (in two cases) refused real-world cash enticements to backstab us (when Evil Thug was purchased). Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: rand on July 28, 2009, 05:26:16 PM ITT: Everyone who is not a goon tries to come up with advice on how to destroy goons. Because fuck it, goons are fun but it's not like they don't have it coming. As you're making yourself a known face on the SA boards, it couldn't hurt to spend a couple months in a goon WoW guild or something like that. If you have a high level WoW (or whatever game) character already, transfer them to the goon server. If not, try to level one up quickly. Once you have a high level character in the goon guild, spend most of your time giving instances runs and crap to the lowbie alts of established members. This is a great way to make friends and become known as being a stand-up dude. Then when it's time to go "Oh what is this Eve game about?" anyone who tries to look into your background will see that you've been around for months, you've played other games with goons, and that you're supposed to be a swell guy. no one gives a shit about whether you've played other games with goons or how helpful/important you were in those games Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Yoru on July 29, 2009, 03:15:30 AM I don't care what thread or forum you're in, don't be an egregious shithead. (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=16038.msg681490#msg681490)
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Slyfeind on July 31, 2009, 03:42:07 PM Hm, what about coercing the majority of Goonswarm to just not be there for each other anymore? I'm not saying it's likely, but would it bother any of them?
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: NiX on July 31, 2009, 04:28:00 PM Hm, what about coercing the majority of Goonswarm to just not be there for each other anymore? I'm not saying it's likely, but would it bother any of them? You assume they were there for each other and not to protect their jewing. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Slyfeind on July 31, 2009, 04:31:38 PM Well I mean like everybody just getting bored and moving on. That happened in A Tale in the Desert, but it was on a much smaller scale.
Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Endie on July 31, 2009, 05:28:25 PM Well I mean like everybody just getting bored and moving on. That happened in A Tale in the Desert, but it was on a much smaller scale. 4000+ goons plus alts have a certain momentum. While we will start to decline at some point, the design of Eve as compared to ATITD, a mind-numbingly grindy game where the number of goons attracted was always low (I played in the goon group there in 2006) is far more sticky and there is still far more reason to keep playing Eve. Man, ATITD was Korean in its grind. More bricks. More flax. More mud... :uhrr: Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Jayce on July 31, 2009, 09:20:07 PM You assume they were there for each other and not to protect their jewing. I don't think you "get" Goons. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: Sir T on July 31, 2009, 11:02:48 PM Well, like everything it depends. The Ironmei betrayal did hurt Goons a lot as that basically was us getting a system turned on its head and us losing sov despite us doing everything right. It was also the reason for AAAs successful hotdrops for a while, that the Goon capital director was feeding them intel. That really killed participation for a week and AAA and Bob nearly took the system. One of the things that sent the Suas betrayal into hilarity was that Suas stole the Titan from Ironmei without realizing he was a spy. So goons can be hurt, but it's a lot harder.
The "We are terrible at this game" is a defense mechanism, but it also keeps them honest. Goons don't have a reason to pretend something is brilliant when its completely stupid. When people fuck up, they admit they fucked up. They have no reason to lie because they are goons and they are terrible at this. Where others might pretend they had done well after getting hammered, Goons can freely go " er, well that was a complete and utter welp." The last point is that goons came into the game from a position where everyone else was more powerful than they were, and would always be. With no grinding there was no way to catch up. The only advantage they could glean was to become the most viscous bastards in the game. The "We are terrible" thing helped with that. All they are is some fat nerds plying a spaceship game, badly. All they could go was up. And scamming came from that, I guess. Title: Re: Goonswarm and Scamming Post by: NiX on July 31, 2009, 11:04:49 PM |