f13.net

I need a few more brains here, as I'm having a hard time finding an angle on a weird incident today.

Long-time readers may recall that I'm running an IT consulting business; I take walk-in customers for computer repairs for pocket money.  A new customer came on Monday with an infected HP desktop, wanted the viruses gone.  Everything went normally, scans, cleans, update security patches, install AVG, very run of the mill job.  I call her today to let her know the work is done.  She comes, I fetch her computer from the work room, hand her the invoice, swipe her credit card, and as I'm coming back with the receipt, she tells me, "My computer doesn't have this white panel on front, this must be the wrong computer."

Huh, I think, this is the only HP I've worked on this week, that can't be right.  But just to be sure, I carry the computer back, hook it back up, and fire it up.  She comes with me, and points to a dead husk of a HP on the floor, a rather old and crappy one that a customer abandoned when it turned up dead like a year before.  "That's it," she says, "That's my computer."  I know for super-sure that the thing on the floor isn't her computer, and the computer on the desk dutifully boots up to her desktop.  "Well those are my icons, but that's not my case.  That one on the floor is my case."

By this point, I'm feeling more than a little skeptical.  I'm sensing an 'oh you broke everything but I'll take the shattered remains and not pay you good day sir' around the corner.  So I say, "Well, I can certainly put your computer in that case if you want, no problem." and start stripping the motherboard out of the old case.  It's not too long before she decides that the case actually wasn't the one, but she's still sure that her computer's not in the same case she dropped it off in.  She adds that she has invoices for her computer proving that it isn't the model printed on the case.

That's kind of a stupid thing for her to claim, given that I can pull up the model's info on HP's website and verify that the hardware in the case matches the model number on the case.  I don't mention that bit to her, because at that point I'm suspicious as hell and am not in any hurry to give her any useful tidbits.  Eventually she takes a flash drive, copies her financial info from the computer onto the drive, and leaves, promising to return tomorrow with the proof of what is evidently my nefarious scheme to switch a worthless HP case for another worthless HP case.

The possibility exists that the woman is simply very very confused and genuinely thinks that the computer I have isn't her computer.

I'm leaning a bit more towards thinking that she's trying to pull one over on me.  The problem being that I can't see her angle.  I have her computer.  It's worth more than the seventy-five bucks that I charged her for cleaning it out and updating it.

1. She just wanted to get the data she pulled from the drive.
That doesn't work, her computer was bootable and ran, just with popups and annoying adware.  She could've pulled the data at any time.  That's why I let her get the files.

2. She means to get the computer back and 'forget' to sign the credit card slip, then deny the charge.
I'm giving this one a 'maybe'.  She took the credit slip with her, so I could see her coming back tomorrow and saying "oh silly me that is my computer, my bad thanks", and taking it while hoping that we don't remember to get a signed copy of the slip.  Given that I printed out a new slip before leaving the office today, that won't be happening, but she might be hoping.

3. She's going to try to claim that we swiped her computer.
Well, maybe this if she's utterly ignorant of the fact that I can (and did) pull up HP's website and run their hardware-detecting applet to prove that the hardware matches the case.  And printed out the computer details.

Aside from those, I can't think of any potential cons for her to pull tomorrow.  So I throw this out to the wisdom of the intertubes to see if anyone out there has any bright ideas.

I'd go with #2 but I'm a suspicious bastard.  More likely she's just your average idiot who can't recognize their own car in a parking lot, much less an appliance they look at for 1/2 a second when switching it on every few days.

Some girls leave their panties. This one leaves computers.

I'd go with just completely clueless average pc user that doesn't know their ass from a hole in the wall where their computer is concerned.

Hell, people not knowing what the space bar is is far too common for me to have any faith at all in people knowing anything about their pc.

Was she cute?

Did you clean it?  If it was dirty and you wiped it down before you gave it back, she probably doesn't recognise it anymore.  Your fault!

I'm voting 'really stupid'.

Give her the one on the floor too.

Tell her she can figure out which one is hers at home.

This, most likely.  She's confused about her system and tomorrow she'll figure it out.  If not, just give her system back and chalk it up as a loss.  It's ultimately her property and you can't hold it.  If you're insistent on being compensated, give her system back and take her to small claims.  You'll lose, most likely.  But you retain your sanity and credibility with other customers.  

I wouldn't go switching out components in systems though, and I'd get a inventory tagging system together for future repairs.  Even if it's just soft-sticky labels that you can match up or something.  Should prevent that in the future.  

I'm not sure why you aren't being more firm and telling her that no matter what she thinks, you know which is her computer.  The fact that you were willing to swap the computer between cases (I really didn't get that part) shows there may be some doubt on your part.  Don't give her an inch or she'll want a mile.

The sad irony of the whole thing is that I offer a satisfaction guarantee.  Anyone wanting to stiff me on labor need only call me a couple days later and be all, "My computer sucks now, I'm unhappy, money back."  Stiffing me on parts is where I draw the line; I did take a guy to court over not paying for a laptop screen replacement, as it was a good $200 in parts out of my pocket, but I'm willing to write off labor.

If this woman wanted to get out of paying me, it'd be easy to do with a much simpler lie.  But coming up with a really bizarre lie has aroused my interest enough to be merrily gathering inventory and photographic records to more than amply prove it's the right hardware.

In the (very) old days when I did computer repairs we wrote down the serial number(s) on an estimate form and had the owner sign it. Do you do anything like that?

I'm guessing she just doesn't have a clue what her computer actually looks like. However, I tend to suspect stupidity over maliciousness as a given.

When hearing the story, it first sounded like the woman was either wanting to intentionally cause a problem or couldn't remember what her computer looked like. Her having a Flash drive and wanting to copy data was likely the ultimate goal, and she probably copied everything so she could stick you with the computer, whether the case was the issue or not. She probably got another computer from someone or bought new, and I believe that depending on the Credit Card she might still be able to dispute a charge.

I would've been more worried though if she was taking pictures of the computers themselves for a lawsuit crazy nutcase who is lashing out over shame that she was polluted by porn bots.

If she didn't sign the first slip, I'm going to go with #2. Isn't disputing a charge, waiting for it to process, getting a new card, etc. way too much of a hassle for $75 though?

She's hitting on you.

Sounds fishy man. First thing that came to my mind was she stole it from someone she knows, and dropped it off with you so theres nothing attaching her to it, but then I couldn't get around why she didn't just swipe the damn thing before leaving it with you. Either way, someone pulled something similar at my shop, bells would be going off and flags would be waving.

Here is her angle:

She makes you open her computer, swap cases... then leaves. At this point she is right, that her computer was tampered with and no longer in original case. She denies ever asking you to do it. You get sued. You lose because computer was tampered with and you have no record of her authorizing you to do it.

I'll go with option #1, she wanted the data but was afraid it would be contaminated by the viruses or malware that was on the pc. She'll never come back to pick up the old machine.

lac's theory is the only one that makes sense in terms of a scam, unless there's some plan to haul you into small claims court and hassle you into giving her money to go away.  Otherwise I'd go with "really confused about computers".

--Dave

Playing hard to get.

Please let us know how it all ends.

#4 She's off her medication.

We get a lot of that kind of stuff at the library. We had one schizo woman (diagnosed) who was going to sue the library after we infected her computer with a virus, which infected her disk, which she sent to her publisher (oh yeah, she published psychiatric journals lol). She said she had evidence, every time she put her disk in our computer it said it was loading a virus on it. Every time she booted out computer, it said it had a virus.

She was talking about the antivirus scan messages. The one that scanned the hdd on boot-up, and the one that cleaned her disk every time she came in, of the viruses she re-infected it with at home. I checked the log against our sign-on book, and the only hits on the log were just after her sign-in. Asked her what kind of anti-virus software she used at home (none). Sent copies of the info to our lawyer and her publisher, end of story.

Except she swore we were out to get her, haven't seen her since.

I'm more likely to believe that she doesn't recognise her own computer.

But it could be what Walrus said: it might not be her computer. She might have just wanted the info, but was scared about transmitting viruses between machines. So she gets you to clean it, gets the info and won't ever come back. If this is the case, it is probably the PC of someone she knows.

If she doesn't come back, you probably should check to see if someone has reported a missing HP computer to the police.

It's possible that this is a combination of someone intending to pull a scam who also doesn't know anything about computers. E.g., she doesn't know that you can tie the computer to a specific HP registration, and was planning to pull something like, "That's not my computer, he stole my real computer".

I'd go with UnSub's theory.  She had you clean someone else's computer.

If it's a scam, I think this is most likely.  She'll accuse you of stealing her computer and demand you either replace it or pay for a replacement.

I hope that doesn't sound sexist, but I can totally see a woman not recognizing her own computer. Every time I ask my girlfriend specifics about hers (her computer is older than the time we are together and standing at her place), I get a blank stare. And she is quite a smart woman. She just doesn't care about those things.

Update: She called while I was getting lunch, and told my partner that I was shady and had clearly stolen her 'hard drive case'.  Apparently a verbal dispute ensued on the phone, and now Mr. Policeman is on the way over before she gets here.

 :facepalm:

 :awesome_for_real:

OMG this is so exciting.  She's clearly whacko.  

She sounds like a master criminal to me. Caped vigilante justice sounds like the only way to deal with this to me.

Find some...ah...questionable images/videos from the intertubes.  Put them on her computer.  Report her for said images/videos.

Profit.

:popcorn:

Well, consider this a learning experience.

From now on put inventory labels on everything, take photographs of equipment that comes in, mark down serial numbers and install a video camera.  I am sure the cop will have some tips for you too.

Color me interested too.

 :popcorn:

That's fine for visible hardware, but does nothing for internal stuff or software.  Sure, video footage and serial numbers on the cases will keep someone from having a leg to stand on if they say we swiped their whole computer or the case, but it won't do a thing if someone says we stole the memory, swapped the CPU, erased their programs, etc.  Shot of having some awesome Star Trek scan of the computer, we can't possibly gather enough proof to deter a sufficiently crazed individual.

computer laundering! I hope everything turns out okay but  I think you are going to get screwed here.  On the other hand if you do not get screwed sounds like she is committing felony of some sort, so if you come out of this with the upper hand be sure and press charges.

edit: best defense may be a good offense, start talking about pressing some sort of fraud charges asap.

New update: Lady arrives with police in tow, a different officer than the one we'd been dealing with.  Wants the serial numbers off of her computer and the case in the back room, which is fine.  Now she's claiming that we've moved her data onto this 'new' computer after we show the officer all the cobwebs in the case that pretty clearly prove that the hardware inside hasn't been moved.  She then wants to take the computer, because she has important work to do on it.

 :oh_i_see:

So even though we stole her computer and have this doppelganger in its place, she wants it.  My partner flips out a smidgen and says she can't take someone else's computer and has to leave it.  Jerry Springer antics ensue for a bit until I wave him down and tell him to let her take it.  We've got as much important evidence as possible, and have no legal claim to the thing, so I'm not about to get in a tug of war for a crappy HP.

Then the officer gives us his laptop to work on.   :why_so_serious:

I hope you at least put the viruses back on it, seeing as she didn't pay for the cleanup, or anything.

Oh me. She's definitely a nutjob. How old is she? I picture an older lady with wild-ass hair. Amiright?  :grin:

Middle-aged, short to medium size, medium to heavy girth, a lady of color.  With her kid around both times, which is a little odd given that she came for battle the second time.  And she unsurprisingly didn't have the documents proving the ownership of a different computer.

How else are they going to learn how to fight back against The Man?

Once it was obvious she was insane you should have refused to deal with her. She cant substantiate her claim of PC thievery. She has admitted to hiring you for a service that you clearly performed. The police are not going to just arbitrarily give her a random PC. And she sounds pretty fucking stupid, and does not appear to even have a rational complaint beyond you did something to her PC. Many scams are perpetuated on causing so much drama the rational innocent party will take a loss just to get rid of the fucks. The whole "I can prove it with papers" is just a ruse, she never intended on being required to show them. You should have completely refused her access to the PC until you were paid.

Never should have volunteered to swap her case, your pragmatism could be construed as guilt. As soon as you made it clear to her you were willing to deal with her regardless of her stupidity of her claims you got marked.

The other problem being there is good fucking reason people will be willing to take a loss on something like this rather than fight the crazy all the way to almost certain victory. He loses some time on labour vs. losing a shit load of time going to the courts and dealing with police, etc. if she decides to fight it. Even if you know it's going to get tossed out you'd probably have to spend more time getting paperwork ready for the case than you would have spent on the thing in the first place. Though you're right, offering to swap the cases, while nice and with a non-crazy/scammer person would have been the straightforward thing to do in this case can be construed as guilt or at least undermining your case. Sadly people like her are the reason society apparently cannot have nice things.

At least that sounds like an endorsement from the officer that he thinks you're fine.

Well thanks to her, I now have new non-crazy customers in the local police department.  So yeah, not wasting time crying over seventy-five bucks and a flash drive I got for free with a newegg order last year.  As long as I never see her again, I've come out ahead.


Yeah, both officers who came by basically shrugged and said, "She sounds crazy."  Nobody could figure out what profit she thought we were getting out of stealing the case from her computer.

I worked at a Greyhound bus station in my younger days, and I saw a lot of these types of people back then. She just wanted her computer fixed for free, and was willing to make all sorts of fuss to get it. I guess the unusual part is her wanting the cops involved, most of the con artists I saw wanted to steer clear of cops.

The third act in this drama will be when she claims that the interior of the computer is no longer the same except for the hard drive.  IOW, she's going to claim you put her HD in an inferior computer.  The goal is to provoke you or your partner into saying something that can have a racist spin put on it, at which point she goes to her local Al Sharpton wannabe, and you have to spread lots of money around through his preferred front charity to make it go away.

--Dave

Sexual assault combined with claims that they threatened her toddling son during the confrontation.

So Earth will look bad in front of the Glaxistons during negotiations over nebula gas processing equipment tariffs levied on non-sanctioned Class D interstellar vehicles operated by parties who have not ratified the Nebulae and Asteroids Development Treaty, Amendment LVII, Section 19.

Wow, I really hope she's ignorant enough to make that claim.  On top of being utterly unfeasible (Windows crashes like it hit an iceberg if you pop a system drive out and plug it into different hardware), the system registration info I pulled from the computer contains Windows IDs that are generated in part from the ID numbers in the hardware it was installed on.  IDs that wouldn't match if the OS were made to run on different hardware.  So if I were possessed by evil and did decide to go through the huge PITA of swapping her drive and reinstalling every driver to make Windows run, there'd be clear evidence of the fact when Windows starts bitching about needing to be re-authenticated for the new hardware.

Provoking my excitable partner, on the other hand, is a more feasible tactic.  I headed it off today, but'll need to have words with him to make sure he doesn't do anything foolish if she runs in and starts a scene later.

If you have not done this already, I strongly suggest taking in a 'broken' computer to your local Best Buy and paying the smallest amount you possibly can to let the Geek Squad take it in and 'fix' it. 'Break' your computer by unplugging a few of the power wires or something simple so it's a fast turn around.

Do not tell them about your store.

Then, take their contract that you signed at turn in and check through it with your legal advisor and see about creating a drop off contract for your store. That document is your protection. From what I remember it will list make, model, serial #, etc. and pretty much avoid everything tantrum lady wanted to pull.

"That's not my computer!"
"Ma'am, as you can see from the drop off receipt that you have, (and we have a copy of), this computer clearly matches the make, model, and serial number on your ticket. You signed that the information was correct and I have hardware to match the in formation ready for you. Let's go to the register and ring you out so you can pay and get back home."

It's never that easy, but it makes it even easier for the cops to back you.

Ah.

I think I've run in to her, complete with kid(s), a few times in my previous career in retail.

You could probably just ask BB for a copy of their drop-off contract/receipt without even paying.

You should've asked the kid if it was his/her mom's computer.

Yeah, I thought the same thing.

Racists.

Cut it out.

I think you can't underestimate how much a computer is a totally alien device for many of the people who use it. I'm not really knowledgeable myself: I can manage my own machine, swap out components like video cards or RAM if I need to, I understand how most software works, I can patch and identify software conflicts or problems, and so on. But that still means I end up getting a knock on my office door from 8 out of 10 of my colleagues on my hall whenever the slightest thing is wrong with their computers, and I mean things like "I don't know how to turn it on" and "I clicked on the flashing thing on the web page that said I had viruses on my computer and it took me to this weird site" stuff" and "I can't find the file I just saved", as well as more complicated things. They're genuinely helpless beyond opening applications and using them for basic things.

That's sort of their fault, but it's also kind of the fault of the industry for reasons that are now well known and which no one really has a good answer for at this late date. That helplessness also makes people perennially suspicious of people who aren't helpless. Occasionally for good reason--one job I temped at way back in 1990 when I was in grad school, I got to know the one IT guy who ran the whole facility's infrastructure, because I was pretty much the only other person who knew anything about computers. Dude basically would crash the local infrastructure every month or so if it didn't go down on its own just so he could emphasize how much they needed him.

It sounds like this lady just didn't want to pay.  It is too stupid an accusation for her to think of anything more complex than that, methinks.  I bet you never hear from her again.

That Oban -> Paelos -> Nerf -> Trippy exchange is awesome.

But, yea. Anyway. The only thing you're getting scammed by is the lowest common denominator. She couldn't tell her computer from a copy of War & Peace.

Edit: LCD was probably a poor choice of words here, but whatever. She's an idiot. Case closed.

Oho, case NOT closed.  I was talking to a friend about the drama, and his eyes bugged out when I mentioned her (very distinctive) name.  "Holy shit, HER?" he asked.  "I KNOW her!  She came to the dealership I work for last week and raised hell with the sales manager!  Got all crazy and screaming."

I have established now that she's not crazy, she's a scammer.   :oh_i_see:   :awesome_for_real:   :drill:

Oh the fun games we shall play now.

Yup, scammer. This is a racket. Get the cops on her stat. That explains, by the way, why she brings the kid: the kid is designed to make her targets even more uncomfortable and more likely to pay up something just to get her the hell out of there. It may turn out that the computer is in fact not hers at all, in fact.

Its not in the scammers best interest to take anything to "court" they are just trying to become such a nuisance in the short term you will pay them to disappear. Scammers of this level are just looking for a quick comeup from as many sources as possible as quickly as they can. Usually they make loud scenes in places with lots of customer traffic (see coming in with a new police officer during business hours). Claims of racism,sexism or physical threats add some spice to the situation. Lady brings a child with her for additional armor. They work on fishing for bites from as many places as possible. Once Kitsune showed he was willing to negotiate even tho her accusation was 100% scamtastic the radar was locked on.

And there is a pretty marked distinction between a completely ignorant rude shitheel and someone attempting to perpetuate some form of conscious fraud. Some completely ignorant PC user tends to not just point at merchandise and claim "DATS MINES!".

You should have installed a keylogger and destroyed her life. Just sayin.

All shops she did this in banding together and suing her into nonexistence is way more fun. Hell, she even uses her kid as a prop in her scams, that can't be a healthy environment to grow up in. If I was child services I'd take a real close look into that.

I don't need a keylogger to destroy someone's life, I have google. :heart:

My good friend Google whispered to me that she's going in to bankruptcy court next week for a hearing about whether they dismiss her bankruptcy protection for lack of paying the creditors.  Google also told me the judge's name.  I have a letter to write.

If she'd just come to be and said, "Look, I have no money, people want to foreclose on my house, I need the computer to make a living and it's broken, will you help me?"  I'd totally have done it for free.  But instead she went and accused me of really stupid theft to try to con me, so now it's on.

It might be best to just let this one go.  If she somehow finds out you wrote that letter, she's the exact kind of crazy to find an ambulance chaser to write a 20 page complaint alleging 5 different kinds of constitutional violations.  Even frivolous lawsuits are a pain to deal with and take time to resolve. 

He's right. The smart business move is to walk away. Sure you can add another bill to her bankruptcy case, do it if it's just a formality, just don't make it look like you are driving the last nail in her coffin.
And unless you feel really cockstomped, don't sink any more time and energy into a walking trainwreck like that. Cut your losses and be happy you hit a nutter on a small contract like this and not something big.

Do you think the police already knew she was doing this routine with other businesses and that's why they treated him so well when they were called in?

I wouldn't write that letter either, but it's entirely possible that this is someone who makes much of her money this way, through consumer fraud of various kinds--brings in broken or older goods for repair or service and then tries to bully the service into thinking that they misplaced or broke her original item, getting a newer one or compensation in the process. It's not that far off some more established kinds of consumer fraud (for example, folks who make collaborate with an osteopath or other medical professional to document fake or pretend injuries and get insurance payouts). So I'd still keep an eye on the whole situation, and maybe a quiet head's up to the cops, who may know already.

This is probably why she contacted a new police officer, these people tend to get well known in short order. But id imagine the police would make some mention of it if they actively knew. "Ya we got repeated complaints about her for something very similar". The problem is these people usually don't blatantly break the law to get arrested.

Don't get into a pissing contest with this lady Kitsune. She can make your life infinitely more difficult than you can make hers. First, she has no qualms about breaking the law to fuck you. Second, you are just prolonging your contact with the woman who is never going to pay you regardless. I'm sure you are pissed for being nice to a piece of shit like this but there really is no "win" for you outside of never seeing this woman again.

You all need to stop with the good advice giving.  This is about to get exciting on a whole new level.

This thread is an amazing tribute to why our country is having so many problems. Nobody can do shit without fear of litigation, even if it turns out just to be erroneous.

I long for the days where you could just tell her to get her fat ass out of your store before you plant a boot in it, reserving the right to refuse service to anyone, especially stupid people.

Stay out of the bankruptcy.  You have no standing as you are not a pre-petitiom creditor so it will be pointless. You are opening yourself up to a slander suit regardless of its merit. Just let it go.  The time to stand up to her was whe she refused to pay as you had the computer as leverage.  At this point any action will be fruitless and likely be far more trouble than its worth.

As a former officer here was my memorized line to such antics, "Ma'am this is a civil matter between you and the business owner. This is NOT a criminal matter. Take him to small claims court. Now if you dont leave the property I will arrest you for trespassing. Have a nice day."

Let me guess, you didn't work in a small town :)

Our poor people get dragged into every sort of insanity. They spent an afternoon with a net chasing a house sparrow that got into a business once.

Oh yeah, like everyone else says, don't dip your hand in the crazy. Let the money go and if she ever comes in again say no.

The swan has escaped.

Sorry you got scammed mate, but that was a great read!  :awesome_for_real:

If she ever comes in again ask her to leave. It is your right to refuse entry to your establishment based on your own personal whim. If she refuses to leave, call the police. Make her only option in dealing with you via the courts on her lawyer's dime. She will not go there because that is not her 'specialty'.

Chances are she's not coming back. The computer that probably never belonged to her now works and was probably sold on eBay to finance her unsustainable lifestyle.

Things went a bit weird last week.  I was getting an intuition-flavored vibe to wait and see what the outcome of the bankruptcy hearing on Wednesday before doing anything.  Digging up details on the incident with the car dealer was proving tricky; it turns out that my friend's "last week" was actually more like "two months ago", so any records they had about what she did there were gone, and with them a corroborating story of other businesses in town that had to deal with her.

Thursday comes, and I find out that the hearing got a continuation to August.  Okay, I think, waiting was good, now I have weeks to find the proof of her being a vile criminal.

Then Friday rolls around, and she shows up at my office.  To apologize, say she had no idea why she didn't recognize her own computer, pay her bill, and return my flash drive.   :ye_gods:

So now we've moved back from con artist to just crazy.  Part of me wants to be cynical and think that she just paid because she now had the luxury of another month to make her bankruptcy payment, but another part is just as compelling with the thought than being bankrupt and seeing the hammer coming down may have just made her crazy from the stress.

But it's a good thing that I didn't go and try to ruin her, because boy would my face have been red on Friday!  "Oh gee, thanks for paying and apologizing.  Uh.  So.  If you happen to get calls from the state board of accountancy about severe ethics violations and from Microsoft about a pirated copy of windows, just... just ignore those."

It is more likely that she is back on her meds.

My impression as well.

It's a bizzare story, but good for her in the end.  It's nice to see a positive result from something like this.

Maybe she reads f13.

Oooh, the plolt thickens.  It must be one of the females posting in this very thread. 

She must not have heavy hitters.