f13.net

Yep, you read that right. Blizzard is anti-fat anti-big-boned. If you're 400lbs husky and want to wear a WoW T-shirt, you're SOL. Mythic, it seems, embraces their half-ton big & tall players while Blizzard shuns them.

View the sad tale here. (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=372319&p=1&tmp=1#post372319)

Today is a sad day to be a lard-ass person with a big heart.

That thread makes baby jesus plan the apocalypse.

Wow, I mean wow.

4X shirts btw are about 13" larger in the chest than a Large (50"). Meaning I'd have to gain at least a foot in mass to wear one. Sorry, but that's not gonna be muscle chief. You're a fatass.

HULK WANT WoW T-SHIRT! RAARRARRARARAARAR!!!!!

Ah yes, the second of the two last remaining socially acceptable forms of bigotry.

I'm going to get you back for linking that thread.  As soon as my IQ grows back.

Look, I did my best to be politically correct in my post. I tried hard.

I'm still waiting for my IQ to come back after reading geldon's blog after his newest grief title.

No, I will not link you. I am not that bad of a person.

What's the other one? Hating Bush?

Heh.  I'm not at all offended.

I was highly atheletic most of my life.  In my late twenties apnea and hypertension took me from 190lbs to around 250 (for my height and frame 190 was pretty slight). With medication and *very* controlled exercise I'm back to a healthier weight and I'll probably be back to my "ideal" weight in another year.

Why do I say all this?  Because the difference in how I was treated was simply breathtaking.  Even by close friends and family.  It was quite staggering to realize how insecure the great majority of us are that we need a screen to project upon.

I'm hardly a fan of PC.  But I'm real big on character and respect.  Pun intended. :)



Sexuality of course.  Hating Bush is a natural reaction, "hate" in its purest most constructive form: controlled anger to enhance an organism's immediate survival.

Been there, done that.

When I moved out to AZ from MN, I was at a svelte 175, but after getting married and raising two kids, I found myself tipping the scales at 280. It took a lot of work to get back down to 200 and I hope to be back to my less beefy 175 by summer, but we shall see.

If you need a 4X shirt, you're fat and you're getting called on it. If you need two seats on an airplane, you're fat and you're getting called on it.

Agreed, this is not like saying, where are the XL's or why do your seats only fit Calista Flockhart. Needing any shirt above an XXL is warning sign to do something about your health. I would say in the general sense that I hear excuses from about 50% of the fat people I know about genetics or medical problems when the national average of people that are fat regardless of diet, exercise, or personal drive is much much lower.

In other words, you're not fat because mommy and daddy made you that way. The Freudian blame game isn't getting you thinner, take some responsibility for yourself. Hell, if I ever got up to 200 lbs (I'm 5'10") I would know that something was seriously wrong. It's markers like that which keep me focused.

Society treats fat people much differently than thin or "normal" people. Look at those shitty commercials for things like cortislim or other shit. "Are you a member of the unhappiest club in the world, the overweight?" If you have not seen that commercial, you should avail yourself of it, because it's demeaning and disgusting. Especially because it makes the implication that fat = unhappy.

I say this as someone who is a buck 25 soaking wet. A buck 30 with shoes on. I have big feet. But I married a "big girl" and she knows what it feels like to be constantly told you can't be fat and attractive.

Of course, 4XX isn't just fat, it's morbidly obese. It is fatty fat fat fat. It is Fatty McPorkSkins Fat.

It's one thing to be a "big girl" or a "healthy girl" or have "birthing hips" or whatever. That's fine and dandy and there's nothing wrong or unattractive about that.

And as for you Haemish, go eat a cheeseburger. Make it a double.

Perhaps but it's not your call and the public taunts just reflect poor character.  Generally we better demonstrate our strength by what we choose not to do or say rather than giving in to our more venal urges.

Maybe your blog needs a section separating righteous from the self-righteous.  You'll even find scripture to help you with that task.  A couple that come to mind: beams, motes, and eyes.  Those without sin casting stones.

I bet we could find more, and maybe even make it pan-doctrine by dipping into the Upanishads and Kult Komet Komix.  I'd be happy to brainstorm it with you and I'll model for you my 2x Blizzard t-shirt that I can now comfortably wear, less because of "will-power" and more because modern medicine is a beautiful thing.

Hey, how can you possibly feel good about yourself if you can't diminish other people?  If we can't trash the obese in order to elevate ourselves, what do we have left?  They took minorities and women away from us!

Why did I bother to learn how to read?

Nice high and mighty speech. Find me a place where I said we should start stoning fat people with obsenities on the street. No? Oh that's right, because that wasn't my point at all. I said its about health, and taking responsibility for it yourself. I said 4X is too big, which is undeniably true, and that it should be one of the many markers to Americans to say, Hey I might have a problem that can KILL ME.

Note also that it would be pretty damn un-Christian of me to sit there and pretend someone doesn't have a problem when they actually do, AND they can fix it. Not everybody is in your boat of having few options for medical reasons. I'm not going to patronize someone into believing that its not a life-threatening issue, but I'm also not going to try and motivate them by name-calling and ridicule.

Not being a christian, I am free to ignore the physical maladies of strangers.  Being a misanthrope, I am free to ignore the rest of them, too.  

I feel happy.

Yay, the universal past-time: picking on fat people. There's nothing quite as fun as kicking people who are quite possibly mentally scarred due to years upon years of abuse. All good fun right? Or are we just trying to tell them that they are overweight incase they didn't notice they were fat? Or maybe incase they haven't heard about the health risks even though they'd have to blind and deaf not to know? Well, it's fortunate you were all here to point these out for them.

Jesus. You guys have no fucking clue do you? Do you know what it does to a person when they are villified, ostricised and teased for years? You think "innocent" little comments don't cut to the bone? Fuck. I haven't been fat for years (and incase you want to know a popped disk, eating because I was bored and there was nothign else to do, followed by getting used to inactivity caused it initially... just in time for highschool too, yay) and I still get the urge to beat the crap out of people who make fat "comments".

Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

Seriously.

Beefcake.


Now, about WoW....

Therapy.

Seriously.

I like to find random black people and inform them that they're likely to make less money than white people for their entire lives. They need to know this, for their own good.

Why thankyou, I didn't realise that I went right off the handle just then.

But do they need 4X shirts? I mean, c'mon now, keep on topic.

You went right off the handle a while ago.  I just wanted to tell you that.  I thought you should know.

They should probably play it safe and go for 5X.  Or is that L?

<cartman>I'm not a fatass!</cartman>

Get your past-times straight. Even the ridiculously massive pointed and laughed at Napolean Dynamite.

And I'm talking about people in the crowd.

Ahem, ya know... I am "fat" and moderately (Or so I am told) attractive. Big women are beautiful, and not just when you are drunk :P We can walk upright, walk through Walmart without having to use one of those nifty motorized scooters. We can have sex, run around a jogging track, play video games..

It's amazing what they teach fat people these days! Isn't it?

The point of this whole thing is this:

Everyone has something about them they don't, won't, will never like. I am not sure what the fluck is wrong with some of you not getting this one simple fact:

FAT PEOPLE CAN LOSE WEIGHT

I know that is some sort of amazing and new newsflash to some of you, and that any thought of the feelings of others before you speak is something totally new and unknown, but hey. So the guy wanted a very large T-Shirt. Not like he was asking for a free account, someone to teach him how to build an atomic bomb, planning a murder... stealing a fetus.

His only "crime" was being a big man asking for someone to accomodate him.



Sorry, had to post this and represent "My People". ;-)

The problem is that some of these people don't want to lose weight. I have no problem with "fat" people who are trying to lose weight and improve their life. Been there, doing that.

This isn't about large people or XL, or even 2X, we're talking 4X. That is bad. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

But it isn't your job, nor anyone else's to tell them to lose weight. Can they? Absolutely? But you do not know nor have any personal knowledge of their medical history, what they have/and or are doing that has caused them to be as big as they are. So telling them to lose weight is not something you need to be doing. In a virtual world this shouldn't even be an issue, or a matter and isn't until someone decides to make it so.

Telling someone who cannot lose weight by normal means, or simply isn't ready, doesn't have the mental/emotional/physical/social tools TO lose the weight falls on deaf ears and makes those already scarred and saddened by what society has thrown at them because of the image of perfection that it itself has is hurtful, disgraceful and disgusting.

As for me, I'm big. I'm not trying to lose the weight nor do I care to. And when I do it'll be my decision, not become some complete moron who I don't know decided to take it upon his or herself and tell me it's time.

I'm not a minion.

This has nothing to do with the stupid idea of perfection. This has to do with health.

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Seriously, I have to say the people who are obscenely overweight are in trouble. It is childish to make "comments", but to say "That's not healthy" isn't a crime. It's not healthy. That's a fact. I can't help but be reminded of shit like "Super Size Me" and that lawsuit with the mother suing McDonalds for her kids becoming overweight. It's the ones that blame everyone else for why they can't lose the weight. Sooner or later they'll have to realize bitching doesn't cause weight loss.

You aren't morbidly obese.

But it isn't your health. It is his health. You don't pay his medical bills, you aren't his family or his doctor, he doesn't answer to you (And realize I mean you in a very general term, not directed at you personally, shockeye) and he is responsible for his own person. The choices HE makes affects him and asking a company to be considerate of the sizes of different people isn't a crime.

Actually it could be affecting me. My wife told me our health plan covers gastric bypass surgery. It also turns out a number of people in her office got the surgery without ever trying to lose any weight. They decided to take the easy way out and not dedicate themselves to being healthy on their own. Our medical insurance costs keep going up. Idiots like that cost me money. They take no responsibility for their own weight instead letting medicine do it for them.

Alright. Look.

XXXXL is goddamnedably huge. If we started selling T-Shirts, you can be damned sure we wouldn't go over XL. We MAY go to XXL if there isn't a price increase. But XXXXL? That's got to be less than .1 of 1% of the entire gaming populace. Gamer Sizes range between Large and doubleXL.

Now, as for the super fat guy who sits around playing MMORPGs....screw his fat ass. I don't care about his health or if his family drove him to fatness. He made a spectacle from himself, and getting made fun of on a family site like this is the least of his worries.

People make fun of supernerds more than fat people. You're missing the forest for the trees. Though some of the forest may be really FAT. FAT. FAT.

That said, I'm 6'/250, with a beer gut. Joe met me, he can vouch for me being more large than fat. I know the difference. I know I could lose a good 25-50 lbs and still be larger than the normal guy. Wide shoulders, chest, big guido build. Oh well. But I'm at 250 and wear an XL from most places and a large from some. Once I can't fit into my 3-button jacket that didn't come from a Big & Tall store, I'll know I've crossed that line.

I have almost no elastic in my wardrobe. But I get made fun of more for being a dork than being fat.

I've rambled a bit here. But my point is, don't feel sympathy for the fat guy. He knows what he can do and he brought what we're making fun of on himself.

I hate to call you out on this, but I will because there are many reasons why fat Americans are not good for the rest of us. It has to do with the same reason that smokers aren't good for the normal person. And I'm not talking about second-hand fat.

It is a health problem to be fat, it causes numerous things that cause people to see doctors, take medications, and visit the hospital well before "old age." This stresses the health care system extremely and in my view, like smoking, it is totally preventable. And here's the real kicker, IT DRIVES UP YOUR INSURANCE AND MINE. Were it one guy, it wouldn't be costing me or you much money, but it's not. America is getting fatter, and ignoring it or saying it's ok is NOT COOL. That doesn't mean we demean them or that we ridicule them in public. That doesn't mean that we coddle them into believing they aren't affecting people outside of themselves either.

Having sympathy for people like this (http://cip.uni-trier.de/adams/download/fat.JPG) is like having sympathy for the mules in the movie "Maria Full of Grace." It takes a special brand of sympathy to take it to that level.

So now the forces of political correctness say I have to accept people that are eating themselves to death?

No thank you.

Whew.

I always knew this was a community a little off the mark.  But I never thought I'd see 1964 all over again.  Nothing like a bunch of rednecks patiently explaining how Them Folks Ain't Natural.

What an amazing bunch of losers lacking any genuine self-esteem.  And I thought the Vault was the ultimate low in humanity.

There's no diet that corrects terminal character flaws.  Will power? Please.  Not a god damn one of you has shown anything close to strength of soul.

Schild please IP ban me.  It will be easy - I have a static IP.

Wow.

No wonder you've been unhappy these last few weeks.  You're soul finally caught up to the rest of you and it must escape.

Heck, I'm 230 and a single XL is sufficient for me.  4X would make a fair tent for me.   That thread we're making a fuss outta has got to be a troll.

Man, what burst your happy bubble? I was just making fun of the lardass for thinking that a company should offer a shirt to such a small number of the population.

Look at it this way, if he loses the weight, he can get his shirt with the darkelf on it. Or even worse, a Tauren. Then he'll be a reasonably hefty furry. Is that better? Calm yourself. I'm not IP Banning you because you don't like a thread.

Leave on your own, but it was your choice to hop into the conversation. Multiple times. And I'm not sure what was more insulting in anyone elses posts moreso than yours.

Seriously, what drugs are you taking? Bigots, grand sweeping statements, talking about my soul? HELLO?

NEWS FLASH: Being Fat is not like being black or retarded. It's not even in the same ballpark, so for heaven's sake stop with the melodrama. Don't sit there and go on and on like it's the Inquisition coming down on poor pitiful people whose only crime is being the way they are. Ask any doctor, for the majority of people with weight problems, being fat is a lifestyle choice. Even if it happens to be genetic, you can still control it to the point OF NOT NEEDING A 4XL SHIRT which was the whole point to begin with.

And on that note, its not like the guy sent a quiet email asking for that shirt. No no no, he painted a target right on himself by making a comment about it on the Blizzard Forums. COME ON! Did you expect a pity parade?

(http://www.subway.com/subwayroot/MenuNutrition/Jared/images/jared_Big.jpg)

JARED DIDN'T WANT UR PITY.

(http://salc.wsu.edu/fair_S02/FS4/documents/fs4/finalproject/Subway/sandwich.jpg)

Make it a footlong!

I admit XXXXL is pretty big.  It's just about the largest size most clothes come in, although you can get larger.  Most places have at least XXL, and if they choose to go beyond that, then usually they have XXXL and XXXXL.  So it's not an unusual thing for someone to ask for.  The guy shouldn't feel ashamed to ask and Blizzard shouldn't feel ashamed if they decide it would cost them too much to offer such sizes for too little return.

The problem was the reaction of the community, making fun of him for asking.  Personally, I get annoyed when places run out of Mediums, and I really feel sorry for the people who are looking for a S or XS and all you can find are L and XL.

Bruce

Heh, I don't know if I'd go so far as to call gastric bypass easy.  My uncle had it recently and there have been a LOT of complications, he'll most likely be in the hospital from Thanksgiving thru New Year's as a result of the problems.

While I'll admit that some people use medical solutions (bypass, lypo, etc) as an easy out, I know that my uncle was doing the bypass for obvious medical reasons that went beyond "being too lazy."

What a charming thread.

I used to require 4XL shirts. Now I only require 2XL, and hopefully by next year will be down to XLs without numbers in them. So I speak with some hard-won experience.

Some basic facts which some of you may be unaware follow.

1) If you are of a size that requires a 4XL shirt, "just getting up and walking" is not a terribly easy option. You are what is called morbidly obese. Walking ANY distance is exercise at that point. Like, walking in from a parking lot. At that point, simple everyday existence becomes difficult in some respects. It is a serious health problem and medical intervention is necessary.

2) Your demeaning and ridiculing them isn't necessary. It's been covered quite adequately already. Really. Mostly IN THEIR OWN HEAD.

3) Not offering MMO players shirts up to 4XL isn't going to work out too well. Sorry, schild, but again, I speak from experience working the T-shirt counter at a game convention. I know this may not go over well, but people who play MMOs tend to be overweight. I know, it's a shock. Babydoll size S shirts for girls also tend to be in demand, so there is hope.

I was contemplating a contribution to the discussion over there before the thread there got closed.  

First of all, Lum, congratulations on getting your health back.  I think you remind us all about sensitivity.  But at the same time, XXXXL is really damn big, as Schild noted.  I live in New York City, and I don't even think a person that big could exist here, with the amount of walking necessary to obtain things, and the problems intrinsic to navigating things like revolving doors and subway turnstiles at that size.  

Frankly, I suspect that, even basic tasks become extremely difficult at that size. Showering, and even using the toilet must become difficult.

And in the name of insensitivity and harsh reality obliterating the myth of dignity.




http://www.oversizecasket.com/article2.htm

http://www.oversizecasket.com/casketstyles.htm


Ye Gods!

I'm 6'1" and 240 pounds, with a flat stomach(heh, according to my BMI, I'm obese).  XL fits in most cases, but some brands of t-shirts run so small, I look like someone at a dance club with a shirt that's 2 sizes to small, so the thing will fit tight around the biceps.

I'm in the process of working down to a svelte 225, and that won't affect how XL shirts fit much, because of my shoulder width.

Ever see any groups of children these days?  We are in for a world of hurt.

I married one of those 'big girls' too, Haemish (14 years and still going).   I'm guessing she's averaged around 250 since I've know her.  I don't know for sure, I've never once asked her weight.

Odd that I was the kind of person who made fun of the fat girls back in high school.  Karma or something, perhaps?

Apparently, Yao Ming plays WOW.[/quote]

That's the EXACT same problem I'm in. Though I'm not really trying to lose weight atm. I probably will soon. But for now, I'm sort of stablized. I hope. Six months says so though.

*Crimes against Humanity*

Because I would hate to post out of character.


Isn't Lum too fat for sex though ?

Huh..Goes to show that no one is even close to what they appear like on the internet. I always kind of pictured you as a semi-chubby version of Reverend Horton Heat. Slick red hair, chop sideburns, flaming tongue, sweat on your brow, and being from Mississippi, dressed in a white suit like one of the characters in a Tennesee Williams play.

In other words, something resembling an angry Southern preacher. No? Either way, I bet you could incite a riot if you really wanted to.

If you think the guy was asking for a size that would be too expensive to make due to low demand, that would have been the way to say it. Instead of pointing out that it's very, very fat. I don't know why you'd think you need to point that out for people. News flash: it's easy to see. And if you think comments are innocent, they never are. If all you ever got was a comment every-now-and-then it would be harmless, but it goes much further. Every comment is unlikely to be the only thing that happens that day. If there aren't other comments, teasing, looks, or laughs behind the back then that person has stayed home that day.

What do other people's mum's teach them anyway? Before I got fat I used to make comments about really fat people, but I was damn sure they couldn't hear or see me when I did so. Why? Because I was taught from a very young age that it is rude to comment on people. Whether they be fat, disabled, ugly, or whatever. I just think it's amazing that other people don't think that way. To me it's a very core principle, you don't hurt other people's feeling just to make a joke, impress your friends, or whatever. And you don't stare just because you find the spectable amazing/amusing.

And if you think that your comments help then think again. I hardly think mentally abusing people for years is a good way to make them change their lifestyle. And I have never heard of someone who lost alot of weight because people made comments. Comments work on the people who could stand to lose 20 pounds, they don't work on people who could stand to lose 100. Most reasons are to get the women/men, health reasons, the weight gets annoying (my reason, a flight of stairs did me in and I was just sick of it), or you just look at yourself and don't like what you see.

And there is nothing wrong with being fat. Insurance going up is insurance companies being greedy. If they can refuse people based on medical conditions they can refuse/raise prices for the morbidly obese too. They only don't because there's more money in just hiking prices. For a while I was "okay" with being the size I was. I wanted to be thinner but I wasn't too bothered by my weight (besides the comments). I liked my lifestyle and there is nothing wrong with that. Then I decided I wanted a new one with enough conviction to lose the weight and that doesn't make me a better person than who I was then.

I've always thought that there's nothing intinsicly wrong with being racist/homophobic/bigotted in any way provided it never hurts anybody. As long as you don't treat people badly because of it, or refuse them service/jobs then it doesn't matter. Lots of times you have to pretend you like people despite not liking them (like my manager, the bitch) or not approving of them. Why not apply that discretion to everybody who doesn't go out of their way to piss you off? Just because they're not your boss doesn't mean they don't deserve the same outward respect.

I really don't want to be harsh here, but no they aren't.  They can have a pretty face, sure, but that asset is completely undermined by being fat.  Now granted, I don't speak for all manhood, but the number of guys out there who find fat women attractive are miniscule compared to the number of guys who categorically don't.

You sound like good people, so I'm really not trying to be harsh, but I can't just let something that sounds like a total untruth go unchallenged.

Well, surely it has to depend on how big. There's a point where someone is too fat to be attractive to any normal person, just like there's a point when someone is too skinny or too muscly. Before you hit that point there's potential for hotness. If she was saying you can be too big to walk and still be hot you could call her out, but "big" doesn't say much of anything.

EDIT: Normally I don't comment on people's personal avatars (although I think I might have commented on Bruce's at some point), but... hmmm, how to put this? How about "there is nothing wrong with that picture".

Okay, easy rule of thumb, then.  When women go over the 200 lb. mark the potential for hotness is gone, at least as far as I'm concerned.  I may very well be a shallow son of a bitch, but sorry, that's how I see it.

Now that that's out of the way, I'd in all seriousness like to ask folks like Lum who have gotten to the point of needing the XXXXL's how it happened.  When I see someone that big it just seems almost like they had to work to get there.   I can see how a spare tire or bigger hips can creep up on someone, but to get to that size almost necessitates labor on your part.  Very glad to hear you're getting that monkey off your back, though, man.

I guess. But I just never saw much nerd bashing growing up so it doesn't register as highly to my mind (except for one guy but that started because he was an asshole). I think that either the shows we get from america are overdone, or you guys have a much more active anti-nerd vibe than we do here. I always find it amusing when I hear all the terms like "jocks" and "socs" (sp? the one that comes from socials). Maybe you guys just have a more pronounced social segregation than we do here.

Also, some cultures highly repect intellectual pursuits, so "globally" is a little more accurate. There are also places where being fat is seen as a good thing (sumos, and some african cultures), but they are more rare.

Like Lum, I used to be a big ol' Fatty McFatfat. I was weighing in at over 300 pounds (by the time I found a gym I was down to 315 after dieting for a month or two) and wearing a XXXL shirt comfortably, and really putting a stretch on my XXL wardrobe.

E3 2k3 pic:


That's not the most descriptive pic, but all the others I have from E3 are very grainy.

I didn't take a lot of photographs back then, understandably so. It's easier to not have to look at yourself when you just can't stand the way you appear in freeze frame. You can lie to yourself in front of a mirror. You can suck in your gut, flex your muscles, prepare yourself. When it's just a drunken photo, you see yourself in a more realistic light. After getting a few of those pictures in my hands, I decided it was time to make use of my teenage metabolism before I grew too old to actively work out.

So I hit the gym at 18 and 315 pounds. Six months later, I was down to about 270, and XXL shirts draped around me comfortably. Another month of strenuous exercize, two cans of tunafish and a multivitamin per day later, I was down to 240. Where I live now has no serious gym equipment, and I don't feel like paying $60/month to work out, so I took up racquetball with some buddies from work. I'm now down to about 210, but with the holidays here, I'm anticipating either moving up to 220 or down to 200, because lately it seems whatever I eat ends up causing me to lose weight.

Me ~two weeks ago:


I'm clearly not where I want to be (170 is a good number for my 5'10" Sicilian frame), but if I can keep up with racquetball and trying to eat right, I should by there by summer. I usually wear a large t-shirt size, but the variety of sizing options puts me between a medium and XL. The European t-shirt I have is an XL. The company polo shirt is a medium, and it kinda binds around my biceps. The distance around my chest is 38 inches, and my waist is 38/40 depending on how serious I've been about not eating like shit in a given week. This is down from god only knows on my chest and a 50/52 inch waist.

Since losing weight, I still feel for fat people, but I'm far less sympathetic. I have fat friends. I still try to judge people on their personal merit. However, it's not hard to lose weight. Genetic conditions aside, no one under 30 has an excuse to be 100 pounds overweight. It's easy to get there, and even easier to ignore, but being a prisoner of your own flesh SUCKS, and the people who try to remain blissfully ignorant to what they're missing are deluding themselves to the point of it being a pathology. You shouldn't be hated or discriminated against because you're fat. But you should also be actively trying to lose weight.

People look down on fat people for the same reason they look down on smokers: it's all willpower. You're a victim to the bad choices you've made, and your health and personal appearance has suffered because of those bad choices. And giving up the terrible foods that put you there is about as easy as giving up smoking; you just have to WANT to stop eating fast food and cake after every meal, just like you have to WANT to ignore the cute drunk chick offering you a menthol cigarette at a party. The sad fact is both smoking and eating are fun and provide enjoyable chemical experiences in our brains, and most people don't actively want to give up those feelings, even if it is making them miserable. Welcome to addiction.

Of course, people DO get fed up. People in this thread, me. It just takes dedication, like anything else. Fat people (and thin people) always ask me what I did to lose so much weight, and the answer I have always sound a lot more cynical than it is: "Eat less and exercize more."

That's all it takes. And you'll like being able to do pushups without reaching for a defibrillator.

I hope this forum is still going in 10 or 15 years when all of the skinny high school/college kids around here find their metabolisms suddenly slowing down. By that age the empathy gland has usually matured as well.

We're not talking about having a gut, we're talking about obesity.  There is a difference between the two.

We'll have that put on your tombstone after you die of a stroke at age 32, or get harpooned to death by some vacationing Eskimos, or whatever.

Ha ha, look at those cute rosy red cheeks! (Random thoughts follow)

I used to be really skinny, then I started working out, it's pretty amazing how people treat you differently. I remember when I came back to College as a sophomore people kept asking me if I was taller, showing me more respect, and just generally treating me MUCH better because I had put on 15 pounds of muscle or so. It was like some nature channel special about Baboons or some shit like that, I moved up closer to alpha male status.
---

Kids today do look like a bunch of chubsters to me. I would guess that 40-50% of the kids I see walking around in the middle-high school age bracket are overweight. Which is strange considering how looking down on fat people really is pretty socially acceptable in our culture.

How do you have a culture that glorifies skinny people and then produces overweight peope?
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As far as the guy who wanted that size t-shirt, the correct response is "we have no plans to make shirts of that size" and leave it at that.
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2 cans of tuna a day is a lot of Mercury.
---

I don't really like making fun of any group of people for any reason, but I have no problem making fun of specific people. If the worst thing about someone is that they are morbidly obese they're better off than most of the people around.

On the list of character flaws overeating is extremely obvious, but a lot less worse than tons of other negative traits. I really don't give a shit how fat someone is, and I don't see why other people would either. Being smarmy or arrogant or obnoxious is a character flaw as well. All the "just use willpower" people could be using willpower to fix whatever problems they have.

Why is the other guy eating so much? Well, why are you being such a prick?  I suppose being a prick isn't something other people can spot from acress a room, but it's no better.

I can tell you as a skinny person that lack of exercise is a big factor.  I've been small most of my life; I was under 5 foot when I entered high school and weight less than 100 lbs.  When I hit my growth spurt and shot up to 6'0", all it did was make me tall and skinny instead of short and skinny.

During my 20s I was mostly 130 - 135.  I never ate a lot; my caloric intake was pretty average.  I didn't exercise purposefully, but I burned enough calories just by biking around town and running around the office fixing people's computers and installing new servers in racks.  The past few years, since I've started spending most of my days sitting in front of the computer, I would say I eat even less than I did before, but lack of physical activity (and a bad knee for a while) have given me a gut and pushed me up above 140.  Now, if that 140 were muscle, I'd be ecstatic, but since it's collecting as a flabby tire around my middle, it's not good.  And so now I'm starting to exercise more to burn that off.

Anyway, I do think it's sad that many of you folks were all set to make fun of fat folks, and then when it turned out people like Lum and Joe and schild had also struggled with weight problems, people are rethinking their attitudes.  Gods, are you people so shallow that you can only muster up compassion for people you actually know?  Get some humanity.

Bruce

I don't think compassion is the right word. People don't need to show compassion, they just need to stop being assholes - there's a big difference.

As far as people rethinking attitudes, I doubt that is happening. Some people don't understand anything other than a punch in the face sadly.

You may be right.  I'm so used to some people being assholes here that the simple lack of that appears to be compassionate by comparison.



Sadly, I agree with you here, but I still hold out hope for some people.

Bruce

You bring your problems with people around here on yourself. It even seems like you're goading them at times. Now you say you want compassion? Nonsense.

I think that a person who'd want a little more compassion around here would at the very least use a little tact, and try their hardest not give anyone fuel to add to the fire. But all you do is the complete opposite. Everything you've said here is said purposely, knowing full well what would happen, so don't give anyone this bullshit about compassion. I think what you really want is attention. Good or bad.

*But* if you really want compassion, then why are you here? Surely you'd be better off somewhere else, right? This is the internet for crissakes. You have several thousand options. Why torture yourself? Does compassion only mean something to you when it's from the people who are the least likely to give it? If so, then yeah, I can honestly say that you have my compassion....Because it doesn't get any more sad than that.

Feel better now?

Not much of an issue if you keep muscle on your frame, instead of losing ~1 pound of it, per year, from your mid to late 20s on.

Stray, you're probably trolling, but on the off chance your confusion is genuine, or in case others reading this wonder the same thing, I'll try to clarify the matter for you.



Your viewpoint presumes, of course, that those people are acting appropriately in bringing me "problems".  One could apply the same reasoning above to, say, social bigots who hoot and holler and yell at and make fun off two gay guys kissing.  "They should know better, doing that sort of thing here," said A_Southern_Redneck.  "They do it in public just to cause trouble.  And now they want our compassion?  Sheeit."

Yes, I know, this is a private club and not a public streetcorner.  The issue is not whether or not bigots have a right to a such a club; it's whether or not they are bigots.



Most of what I say is not at all purposefully trying to goad anyone.  Even if it was, that's no excuse for boorish behavior.  You should be better than that.  I do admit, once in a while, I will post something I know that has pissed off someone in the past, simply to see what the response is.  But the point when doing that is these are things which I specifically feel it is WRONG for someone to get pissed about; it's not my intention to inflict harm.  Rather, it's an opportunity for someone to demonstrate maturity and growth, by responding in a more adult manner the next time around.  And you know what?  Sometimes it actually works, and there's no big flamewar, and humanity as a whole gets just a little bit bigger.  (I speak here in more general terms as a philosophy, not specifically that this forum has ever done anything to better humanity.)



In that case, do me a favor, and try giving good attention for a change.  Or don't give me any attention at all.  But there's little point in giving bad attention, unless you're just a mean person.



Because obviously I don't SOLELY want compassion, nor do I NEED compassion from everyone.  So there are other things I get from talking to folks here.  Do you restrict yourself solely to intellectual and emotional ivory towers?  I think not, or else you wouldn't be here, either.  Nevertheless, it's not unreasonable to ask for a modicum of civility and compassion, even if experience has taught me not to expect it.



No.



Not particularly.  Like I suggested before, try the "good" attention next time you post -- even if the results are the same, you'll feel better about yourself for doing the right thing.

Bruce

Yes, there are some guys who are only attracted to fat women.  

However, I would say that for most of the rest of us who are in love with an overweight gal, it's just that the weight is a non-issue.  Sure, she's heavy.  It just doesn't bother us.

My wife does want to lose weight, and I support her in her efforts, but if she never does it still won't bother me one speck (generally it's a very slow process for women, even more so than for men.)

Them's my two cents.

I hate every single one of you with the passion of a thousand white-hot suns.  Especially the fatties.

You know Bruce, I'm fairly positive that if you responded in the same way you expected others to, you'd have no issues on this board. Food for thought.

It only become an issue for me when the "back fat" starts to develop.

If someone wants to live a lifestyle that will kill them at 32 that's up to them. It's their life, their decision, and there's nothing wrong with that. Sure there's something wrong with being fat if you want to live a long life, but that's a problem for the individual, not everybody with an oppinion.

As far as Lum's point about having no sympathy, I have to agree to a point. I have no sympathy for the regular person who bitches about being overweight. All it takes is wanting to lose weight more than you want to eat alot and be lazy. That's it. It's your fault so deal with it (unless you're one of the few with an actual medical reason). I do however feel sympathy (empathy even) with people being treated badly for being overweight. There's no call for it, it's not right, and it shouldn't happen. Ever.

I do.  Think about that.

Bruce

That would be true if it wasn't for the little thing called society we're all forced to co-exist in. The problem for the few more often then not becomes the problem for the many. In the western world obesity, smoking, drinking etc. has become a huge strain on nations economies and work force.

On a sidenote, I think they should just make the damn shirts in 4XL or whatever the size was.

But this implies you have some "right" to my economic productivity, to benefit yourself from my labor and my work, such that you should be allowed some control over it.  You don't.  That would be Communism.

You SHOULD have the right, of course, not to have to pay for my resultant health care costs and unemployment.  Sadly, the Democrats say you MUST pay for it.  Thus, by forcing you to pay for it, they increase the incentive for you to believe you should have such control over other people's behavior, by turning an indirect cost into a more direct one.

Bruce

Can't you just take 2 XXL shirts, cut them up one side and stitch them together?  Of course you can.  There.  Problem fucking solved.  

Someone please lock this horrible thread.

Yeah, but I should be allowed, as an employer, to fire you if your productivity slips enough that it's an issue for me & my profits. An employer having rights to my productivity isn't communism.  The state having that right is.  Currently though, firing an 'unproductive' employee  due to their health isn't lawful.  Obesity is one of those health issues covered.



Yeah, those damn dirty Democrats what with their ownership of every single insurance company operating in the U.S.   Oh wait, no they don't.   Speak to the specifics.

  As the nation gets fatter we will all pay for it out of our pockets, even if Medicaid, Medicare, disability and unemployment dissapeared right now.   Heart disease (primarily related to weight and eating habits) is soon to become the #1 cause of death in the country.  Go us.

Agreeed, but this doesn't change my point.  The employer-employee relationship is strictly contractual.



Yep.  Damn Democrats again.



Insurance has nothing to do with it.  We're talking about nationalized health care and related systems.  Insurance is purely voluntary.



We pay for it in the direct cost if one measures society by its overall  productivity, sure, but the same is true of all rights.  There are negative affects to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, trial by jury, etc.  We accept these things not because of their efficacy, but because of their morality, and, perhaps, with the hope that taken together as a whole, society is "better" when someone has the freedom to be fat, even if that means that fat people aren't as economically desirable.

Bruce

Stupidity is a big drain on the economy as well...

There is a difference between saying that being overweight is bad in general for a variety of reasons and just ripping into overweight people.

If someone is gonna die young because of their love of cheeseburgers and hatred of moving around too much, I'm gonna laugh my ass off because that's bloody pathetic.  Period.

Hey SirBruce, my brother quit WW2OL specifically because of what a dick you were being on the boards.

If you actually look at the costs associated with Medicaid/Medicare, the biggest costs are associated with smoking related illnesses, bad/nonexistent preventative care for the poor and people being really fucking old.  Please continue with your stupd rant though.

Good.  He's obviously too stupid to play.

Bruce

It's good to see that every message board thread on the Internet is still about SirBruce.

I said some people only understand a punch in the face - thanks for the illustration. Making Bruce look good is hard but you're doing a great job of it.

*Bruce* is being a dick on boards? Like I said before, some people would benefit if they took a small break from mudslinging and glanced in the mirror for a second or two. Or at least, read the first paragraph of your own post.

Bruce is a troll - you're just an idiot.

Edit: This thread is like a honeypot collecting all the retarded bees in one place. There is more small-mindedness and stupidity in this thread than I've seen in a long time.

Since this thread will probably get locked soon, I'd just like to point out that I haven't made any bad comments about obesity and xxxxl t-shirts. I was only here to question Bruce. Whether or not that still qualifies me as retarded is up for debate, I guess. But small-minded or devoid of compassion? That I am not.
 
Just so you know...

Oink, oink oink.  Are you one of the fatties?  I can't remember and won't be bothered to scroll up the thread again.

I'm an asshole and I don't like you.

Acctually health is a relative thing. Yes I'm overweight. I wear a 4 x but im also 6'2" I wear a 4xlt  because I like a little room in my shirts I can wear a 2x but its tight and a 3x fits ok i just happen to like a lot of room in my shirt.

Back on health. I went to the doctor the other day and Id wager my BP cholesterol levels, etc etc would be as good as yours if not better. In the doctors words "I have patients who jog 6 miles a day whos vitals and cholesterol levels are worse than yours"

Granted Im not able to loose weight very easily due to a Thyroid condition But dont assume someone who is overweight is in poor health as I go to the gym and lift engine blocks on a daily basis.

I keep hoping one day the mods here will wake up and ban him, but that would probably halve the postcount per day.

Note to Mod Squad: He's becoming worse and less coherent by the day, pull the damn plug already.

If we ban Bruce on your say-so, we will ban you as well. Leave it up to the mods to decide when to ban someone, please.

I'll just wait until he posts pics of himself in a tiger suit then.

It will either earn him a ban or else his own picture gallery. Not sure which one yet. I guess it'll depend on the lighting and how much air-brushing is involved.

I am not against sacraficing Paelos to have Bruce banned.

Merry Christmas to you too.

Heh, I guess the ban lotto from the old site stays at the old site, eh?

Lazy and stupid, nice combo you got going.

When did you completely lose it?

Best thread evar.

Shame on you all les peoples who started out laughing about Mr. Fatty McFatFats and then had the temerity to pretend 2 pages later that it was all because you're genuinely concerned about his health and its deleterious effect on health insurance costs and if you had his number you'd call him up and give him a shoulder to cry on and the number of your personal trainer.  At least schild is staying on script.  Christ, if you're going to make fun of someone, just do it and live with yourself.  You don't have to turn it into social commentary.

I'm an asshole, and proud of it. I made fun of Mr. 4XXXL because I'm an asshole and I think it's hilarious. He is just some random fatty on a message board to me; I know nothing about his life but what he's told me, that he needs a t-shirt larger than Blizzard offers and he is angry.

Fine. I call on him to cancel his account and never buy a Blizzard product again? If he can't do that, my jokes about his weight mean nothing.

Fat jokes are mean to fat people. I'm fine with that. Stupid jokes are mean to stupid people. Jokes about furries are done at their expense.

Humor is almost always about having fun at someone else's expense. I'm ok with that too.

Had I made the jokes to his face, I'm sure I could have expected a bust in the chops, and I'm ok with that one too.

It was Friday and we were bored. Anything can become a social issue at that point.

I'll settle down to a reasonable level of coherency in order to... say... smite you for not loving the holy goodness that is WoW.  But a thread like this is just the online equivalent of throwing rocks at the retarded kid anyway, so why bother with the civility?

That is an interesting setup they have in your gym.
Is that like the redneck version of a gym? Stretch tires, lift engine blocks and do benchpresses with the fat waitress from the local diner...

Alas, I don't have a tiger suit.  None of my friends do, either.

Now, a sailor fuku, that I could probabaly arrange for...

Bruce

Merry Christmas back to you!  :)  Frankly, the thought of you putting yourself on the chopping block to enrich the lives of your fellow f13'ers makes me rather excited.  That must prove it's a good idea.  No?

I build race cars as a hobby smartass. While a 42 waist is larger than it should be what I'm trying to say is just because someone needs a 4x shit doesnt nessisarily mean they are huge beyond belife. My arms are bigger than most of your thighs so I know where a lot of my size requirments come from. Like a said 2x is tight and i can wear a 3x but 4x is just more roomy and lets me move easier.
Even with my condition I can keep it in check with diet but some medicaly cant heal becomming morbidly obese. Most can though so I see you guys point as well

Just thought of a comparison im a chunky Big Paul from American chopper sans the porkchop sideburnz

The fact that you are like motherfucking Bluto and Haemish is like Olive Oil......


My mind is fucking BLOWN.

Yeah, some 4X guys are just big beefy motherfuckers in general, not lardballs.  Obviously those guys aren't the ones we're talking about.

But what medical condition makes you fat that you can't do anything about?  I can see how it could make things harder, but if you keep your energy expenditure close to your energy intake... a gland problem can't defy Conservation of Matter, can it?

Cake-retention.

God. Damn. That was funny.

That was funny as hell.
Yeah I dont slam burgers down my throat constantly and try and get exersize every day. It does ok at keeping the pounds at bay but my metabolisim has hit the floor and its harder than it use to be. They said they may be able to do something with radiation treatments but since it isnt cance I have a small problem with them nuking my brain area.
Working on the race cars helps keep it at bay for now along with the gym every other night. I have been contemplating a more rigorus workout in the evenings that I may try after the new year starts.

That was fucking mean.

It was also the best laugh I've had this morning.