f13.net

Eh, figured this would be the best forum for my rant.

So, husband and I are both home this morning, he's got to run to the bank.  Asks if I want him to pick up breakfast from anywhere.  Sure, we don't usually have the chance to breakfast together because of schedules, donuts sound good, he takes a run through the Dunkin' Donuts drive through.  We both love the peanut donuts they have and he orders.  Gets told that they don't offer them anymore because of allergies.

What the fuck.

Look, I understand that allergies can be serious, people have them, whatever.  But why the hell do I have to be penalized and not get to have a fucking peanut donut just because some kid has allergies?  Put up warnings like Dairy Queen does, or other food places.  But no, instead everyone else who happens to like peanut donuts has to lose out.

Oh, and they were fucking out of Boston Creams and Maple iced as well.  At 9:30am on a Saturday morning!

Blah. 

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Svd_1_russian.jpg)

It is time.

To the bell tower!!!

Probably a cost-benefit analysis between losing people over not offering peanut donuts, and offering them but making persons with peanut allergies unable to order any donuts?

Sucks though, they sound tastey.

Awwww, it's so cute. Strazos still thinks that corporate America makes decisions based on rational decisions and cost analysis.

I bet it was more like someone high up in the donut company has a kid with peanut allergies and this was the result of some brainstorm to be more thoughtful for their customers.

Local donut shops for the win btw.

Expect DQ to lose the peanuts in the next 3-4 years, and to start seeing other nuts going the way of the peanut.  Food allergies are spreading along with our national awareness of them. Combine that with our over all desire to idiot proof things to avoid lawsuits and you're going to see other shit start disappearing, too.

I'm with Grim on the local shops.  Buskins still sells peanut donuts. (Or did when I was last there.. it's been a year since I bought donuts.)

I was just at the local Dunkin' Donuts (roofers are LOUD) and they still had peanut donuts. I did not get one, but they said they had no plans to discontinue them. So maybe it's just your local.

Dunkin' Donuts are a franchise so rather than Grimwell's evil anti-peanut corporate overlord, it's more likely just the owner of that particular location who's a dipshit.

The snark was uncalled for. This isn't the politics forum.

I'm waiting for Hagen Daaz and Ben & Jerry's to come up with some Soya variations on their popular icecreams. But until they do and pigs spontaneously evolve the power of flight, I will just suffer crippling stomach pains and endless bathroom visits for a few spoons of that sweet, sweet candeh. But at least that's merely a tasty intolerance and not anaphylactic shock...

Isn't that the truth.  Now that I have a better understanding of what's in what, I can at least mostly control when I'll be doubled over in pain.

Mentioned to the husband that I'd posted here in snark, and he brought up that it could have been this particular location as well.  It's still annoying.

Grim, you should remember what this place is like.  It hasn't changed all that much (well, Algonquin is wider now) so the choices for local donuts outside of a grocery chain are pretty small. :(

This is Ryhssa's husband with my first-ever post.  I'm going to Country Donuts tomorrow AM and getting a dozen peanut ones.  Then, I'm going to sneeze my peanut breath on the franchisee's kid's head.

Awesome, my ex-wife is deathly allergic to peanuts and my daughter may be too.

So, while you may not understand why you can not have your peanuts in an uncontrolled production environment, some of us prefer to go to places that do not use peanuts.

This is the funniest thing I've read here all week.

It's not like there's not a pile of Dunkin Donuts in that area, some probably still have peanut. I always get the weird Japanese donuts from the Happy Hippo inside Mitsuwa, I doubt they'd have peanut though. Hmm, may have to go for green buns there tomorrow morning...

I think it's more a cross-contamination issue rather than some person with peanut allergies accidentally biting into one cause they were given one by mistake or something. It's why on food labels, items that don't have peanuts or other such reactive ingredients but are made in facilities that do process them still have a warning (in very very small print) that they are made in such facilities.

Peanuts are the new cigarette. While there's no government lobby for it yet that I know of - it's the same damn thing. Don't like smoking? Don't go somewhere that allows smoking. Allergic to peanuts? Why would you even want to go to somewhere that uses peanuts in their food anyway?

Bleh.

I think you just identified the motivation for restaurants to stop using peanuts in their food.   :why_so_serious:

The problem is that, much like wheat, peanuts are used extensively in our diet.  Not quite as much as wheat, but there's plenty of cross contamination and the reaction is much worse.  Perhaps if we didn't process our food so much, and it didn't all occur at the same factory, it wouldn't be as problematic.

Perhaps, but the numbers just don't stack up (http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/topics/foodAllergy/understanding/quickFacts.htm).
From the business perspective, let them eat peanuts and put up a pretty sign that says "If you have ANY allergies, perhaps you should talk to us about them and see if we can't make something special for you to enjoy and not die from?"

My wife has a food allergy, to jasmine. Who eat's jasmine you ask? Anyone who has jasmine tea. So when we eat out at Asian influenced restaurants and have tea, we ask before we order. It's amazingly effective.

That's why I say let the peanut allergy people die if they can't choose the correct restaurant and let natural selection rule!  It's much easier than reforming the way food processing works.  :why_so_serious:

Not that I'm serious.  I saw Oban's pic of his daughter and she's way to cute to be hurt from peanut allergy.  I'm sure he wouldn't mind what ever happened to the ex-wife though.

I do understand that certain people have special needs, and it seems to me (if I understand you correctly) that you have a good attitude about it (go somewhere that doesn't have the thing you have a problem with).

Too bad a lot of people think that if they have a problem with something, everyone else on the planet should accommodate them.

If restaurants want to keep peanuts off their menu, that is fine and dandy, but I predict people will soon start trying to force the issue, which isn't fine to me.

I second schild, I expect to see peanuts to go the way of the cigarette.

Its strange how an allergy to peanuts is almost entirely a "first world" affliction. But in a risk/benefit scenario i don't see peanuts winning out, especially in the fast food industry that requires a huge amount of idiot proofing. Tasty peanuts vs. The inevitable death followed by mega lawsuit.

Peanuts aren't addictive nor do you inflict your peanut eating choices on other people. Not a great analogy.

I blame this on the rise of the litigious society. The fear of getting sued for ridiculous shit is taking over.

It's an excellent analogy. Packages need warnings, restaurants are supposed to be up front about it, etc - in fact, the OP shows that it's exactly like cigarettes. Places have stopped serving them because it's just one of those things people are choosing to bitch and moan about. I say this as someone mildly allergic to nuts (though, it's minor enough that I just don't give a shit and will gobble down a jar of PB if I so desire it). Unlike second hand smoke though, it will KILL someone who is allergic whereas the former will do not a fucking thing accept upset a bunch of nazis because they don't like the smell. Wah.

It took over YEARS ago.

After reading this thread, I was moved to action. In order to combat the peanut menace, I have constructed and consumed one (1) peanut butter sandwich.

The world is now 1.5oz of peanut safer. You are all welcome.

At risk of a derail, I read an article a few months back about a doctor experimenting with 'curing' peanut allergies... through massive doses of peanut concentrate.  Fairly successful so far, from what I understand. 

Sounds like a good start for a first degree murder defense.

It's not massive doses.  It's building up a tolerance by using miniscule amounts at first (1/1000 of a peanut to start with) and then increasing the amount slowly.   

I salute your bravery, Sir!  We need more good people like you.

Yeah, but for how small the numbers are did you read this:
I don't like removing options from people, however there needs to be vast improvements in food handling.  Fifty percent.

Agreed!  In fact, PBJ sounds pretty damn good right about now.  I think I'll go make myself a sandwich once I'm doing perusing the message boards.

I agree that removing options from people is bad, but even working with the bolded parts, that still translates into just 0.3 and 0.2 percent of people with food allergies having reactions from accidental exposure.  It's still a very tiny percentage compared to population overall.  And I'd be interested to know how many of those fatal/near-fatal reactions were first reactions, meaning it was how they discovered the person was allergic to an item in the first place, and didn't know how to react properly.

I absolutely do agree that food processing needs to be made more transparent and anything that does cause allergies detailed properly and in readable type for people.  But once someone identifies an allergy, they also have the responsibility to make sure they, or their child, asks for information as well.  It's like the doctor's office asking if I have any known allergies when I visit.  It's my job to tell them that, not just assume I won't come into contact with anything that could cause a reaction.

Bitchy peanut allergy people.  Try being allergic to wheat.  That shit is ineverything.  Soy sauce has freaking wheat in it for gods sake.  I've tried the gluten free foods at the local grocer, but the stuff just tastes awful to me.  The only thing I really miss is pizza, and Phillys/Subs.  Both of which I like enough to chance a trip to the hospital by eating here and there.

The staff often doesn't know.  You can spend thirty minutes verifying it's safe and still get caught.

1) General awareness needs to increase.  If we're being realistic, expecting minimum wage workers to care is asking a lot.  I'm thankful when they do, but yeah.  I expect more from a manager, but even they often don't know.

2) The companies all the way back up the line need to care.  All there needs to be is one in the chain that doesn't and something slips through.  Being cynical, they don't unless they're worried about their bottom line.  Unless there is a salmonella scare, the at-risk population is so low that they don't see the need to get really concerned.  It's only a few small percents of the population, right?

I've had a few good gluten-free crusts.  Expensive as hell though.  Like $10 for a package of four personal pan-size, and the store only carries them once in a blue moon.

It really does suck.  I've given up trying to be 100% gluten-free.  So what if it saps my energy, plays havoc with my insides, makes me grumpy, and increases my Asperger's-like behavior?  At least I'm not eating goddamn cardboard for every meal.  I was never big on food until I had to try and go wheat free.

Fixed.  These aren't percents of people with food allergies, these are percents of the overall population.  There are about 300 million people in the US.  So every year close to a million people in the US are accidentally served food that could kill them.  I can see how restaurants might be concerned.

As I said, expect it to simply go away. No more peanuts in anything because it's too dangerous and you can't remove all chances of exposure without removing them entirely.   Then expect all nuts to simply go away.  Then wheat.  Then dairy.  I see the undercurrents right here in this thread alone.  We're the hyper-protective, hyper-litigious society, and it's only going to increase in scope.

Bunch of bollocks.  Peanuts are going nowhere, except for peanut free donut shops and restaurants that people choose to own.  There might be Dunkin Donut shops that don't sell peanut donuts, but are those shops even peanut free?  I'm doubtful.  Dairy and wheat are here to stay, too.  We can't even get rid of cigarettes!

You are so (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/Emo_Kid_by_Unmentionables.gif).

I have noticed, which is a good thing, that supermarkets such as Wegmans and Whole Foods now have gluten free isles.  Whole Foods in this area has quite a large selection, too.  There are a lot of really good gluten free recipes and cookbooks floating around, too.  Problem is, gluten free is expensive.  People have to spend a fortune to keep safe and not give up decent tasting food.  Enough people seem to have peanut and wheat allergies that every store should have these isles.

As I understand it, allergies in general are linked to two things: Too early an exposure to that type of food, and; Too hygienic a childhood.  They are now very explicit that you shouldn't feed a baby peanut butter or a variety of other things known to provoke severe food allergies.  On the second, there's been quite a few studies linking extremely strict infant and toddler hygiene to increased rates of asthma and allergies.  Apparently the developing immune system needs to calibrate itself against the environment, and if the environment is too free of exposure to bacteria, toxins, and parasites, it winds up sensitized to other environmental triggers like pollens.  With us (Americans and Europeans) no longer letting toddlers play in the dirt and mud, and bathing them several times a week (or even a day), this is causing a major increase in environmental allergies.

You also have a highly mobile population that is routinely going to new areas with new pollens, and sealing themselves (and their children) into HEPA-filtered air conditioned bubbles.

One of the cases that set them on that route was a Pacific island where the staple food was squid, and the inhabitants nearly all had the same intestinal parasites.  When they cured the islanders of the parasite, the next generation grew up with a very high rate of allergy to squid.

So, there you have it: If you love your kids, let them eat mud pies.

--Dave

Completely anecdotal but growing up and well into young adulthood i had fairly bad allergies to pollen and pretty much any furred animal. And i noticed that after i was exposed to an allergen that if i paid any conscious attention to the vague discomfort that i would have an almost immediate reaction (eyes swelled,rash). But if i ignored it after a little while any sensation of discomfort would go away. So today even if its raining pollen outside as long as i don't dote on it i wont have any reaction. But the instant I pay any conscious attention my eyes explode.

I got all my food allergies when I hit puberty. I was fine before that and then *boom* I was allegeric to a bunch of foods. Fortunately my food allergies, like the rest of my allergies except for maybe my Hay Fever are relatively mild. My mouth and throat will get itchy and my mouth will swell up but nothing like the people whose throats swell shut or go into shock. Basicaly I avoid those foods cause it's annoying but I can eat them if I had to/wanted to.

Moved to General.

As Mahrin said, the hygiene thing is the real problem.  Bring your kids out to a farm once in awhile and have them wander around a manure-smelling barn and touch rusty 1950s farm equipment.  Nobody in my extended family has any food allergies and even the urbanites among them came (for holidays) to farms 2 or 3 times a year. 

I seem to be the opposite. I had bad hay fever when I was a kid, and pretty much couldn't go outside without sneezing and weeping on certain days of the year, but it went away around puberty.

Absolutely 1000000 percent agree.  Let them get dirty.  Let them get scraped up.  They need to get dirty and be in contact with germs and whatnot.  I spent all my youth outside, and to this day, I'm rarely ever sick.  The bugs and 24 hr things just pass right by me.

My son (who is just over 2 and half years old) spends most of his time outside playing with the dog, getting dirty.  He goes to a day camp thing a couple days a week (Moms day out program) so my wife can get stuff done as well as to get him socialized early.  He's been going to parks since he around a year old.  I dont think we ever boiled a pacifier that fell on the floor.  Hell, even if the dog was found going to town on it all we did was rinse it off under cold water.  Never boiled a baby bottle.  They need dog slobber and dirt.  It's good for them.   We've so far not had any emergency room trips for <anything> and no unscheduled doctors appointments.  He gets a runny nose and a slight fever every so often (as in 4 months) from some kid in his class, but nothing out of the ordinary.  He's a freakishly healthy and happy little kid who would rather be barefoot in the grass pouncing on the dog than anywhere else.  Gets a bath every other day, depending on how dirty he gets outside.  Otherwise its just a good wipedown with a cloth.

The whole antibacterial / wash your hands!!! germaphobe push is a sham, IMHO.  Our house is clean, but in no way sterile.  It's a house, not an operating room.

Back on the stats, even if half the peanut allergy folks die -- it's bad business to cater to them in anything but a large urban population center.

It's on them to ask and warn. From there it's on the restaurant to find a way to say yes and make a profit serving them. Give and take. Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to go smoke a pack of Camel's and rub peanuts on my arms. Yeah, I'm a rebel like that.  :oh_i_see:

I played in the dirt all the time as a child and I still have every common allergy type (hay fever, asthma, pet, skin and food allergies). It's more complicated than that.

It's never more complicated than the folklore. You just fucked it up by crossing the path of a black cat.

Damn it! :ye_gods:

It's correlation, and a causation theory that seems to match the observation of an increase in overall allergy rates with a preference towards the most germ-phobic parents and is supported by experimental evidence in lab animals.  Just as not every case of lung cancer is from tobacco smoke, not every allergy is going to be the result of over-protective parents raising their children in a sterile bubble.  People developed allergies and asthma before we invented the HEPA filter and hand sanitizer, we just have considerably more of them now, too many to be accounted for by genetics or other environmental factors.  Anyway, I'm not a doctor, this is just what I understand as the result of reading and discussing my son's allergies with his doctor.  There are several other known ways of developing allergies (for example, many people show every sign of being immune the first time they are stung by a bee but develop allergies, even life-threatening ones, later), plus genetic pre-dispositions and sensitivities.

If you're taking medical or child-rearing advice from a guy on a message board without doing your own research, you're a candidate for the Darwin Awards.

--Dave

Tantrums about drivethrough donut breakfasts. Oh poor fucking America and its recession. Spoilt brats.

Meh.

Take that shit to politics, hombre.

I'm assuming a similar thought process is occuring here. Since there isn't very large percentage of people affected, no reason for the corporations to give a fuck.

Sorry, I just went from work topics (in the news media) to this. I should eat some peanuts.

Except removing peanuts from the menu would not incur additional costs (safe assumption). But would remove a possible expense. A single death/extreme reaction could cost them millions. I used to claim I was extremely allergic to onions in an attempt to make certain none were put on my food. And half the time the fuckers still put them on my burger.

Milk sugars (lactose, galactose, etc) are toxic to my sister's body. It's not lactose intolerance, it's a lifelong inability to produce the enzymes to break them down. So she has to firmly request pizza without cheese, no milk-based sauces, no butter, no ice cream, and a complete lack of any product where powdered milk, whey, etc, is an ingredient (lots of stuff you wouldn't expect).

The stupidity of restaurants is amazing. When she says "no milk products", they reply "but you can have cheese, right?". They will proudly serve her baked potatoes without sour cream, and drench them in butter instead. They'll make her a special dessert of plain strawberries because everything on the menu has milk in it, and serve them with cream.

I don't have a link, but I read a story a bit back about some doctors that are starting to do allergy therapy for peanuts, introducing microdoses and slowly building up a resistance so that people with it can at least exist in the world because the big thing with peanut allergies seems to be that you don't get sick and spend a day in the bathroom, you just up and die.

I remember reading about that too - about a page ago when Hawkbit mentioned it.

No shit.  But you gotta admit the germaphobe mentality wherein kids essentially live in a plastic bubble their entire life doesnt help.

So Rhys, tony, and maybe Grim are from the Dundee, Lake in the Hills, Crystal Lake, Elgin area (far NW burbs in general)? If so, I no longer feel bad for the loss of peanut donuts when the drive (even if it is another 10 mins) to Country Donuts is always the only correct choice. Settling for Dunkin Donuts if you are in that area mentioned with Country Donuts near by just isn't right :ye_gods:

If not then ignore the first paragraph in this post. Also, that just sucks and I'll feel bad for the loss of peanut donuts. Although make sure to post pics of sneezing in the brats food (or of one of you going postal with the rifle from page 1)!

I first thought this thread might be a complaint about the new Castlevania game.

LOL!  No guns here, although the husband does have a valid FOID card.  Some days it's tempting to get a gun though.  We're in Lake in the Hills and Grim used to live in the area. 

The good news is the husband did goto Country Donuts yesterday morning for donuts (I think my sugar quotient for the month is filled now) and we had some delicious peanut donuts for breakfast.  MmmmMmMMm GOOD!  I think I'll make him go there from now on (I would go myself, but I had no idea the place existed, tbh.  He obviously did, which is plus+++ for us).

How long has he been sneaking out to donut shops on the sly?  (http://www.realitybbqforums.com/images/smilies/wicked.gif)

They do have that affect on people, but damn are they tasty, well worth the short drive from LITH as you now know. I remember they had some really good coffee too. Of coures YMMV on the coffee, especially since I stopped drinking coffee years ago and it may have changed (although that is doubtful).


In this area, there are no other shops worth sneaking out to. So really it's just a matter of how often he was sneaking out to the good donut shop while making her settle with D.D.

Although it does bring up the question of if he's been withholding the knowledge of Country Donuts, is the husband also not introducing her to the great pizza, ribs, and italian beefs/sausage this area is has plenty of.  :oh_i_see:

I'm out in SoCal now, where donuts are just one Asian buffet away... and not nearly as good.

At least we have a Portillo's now.

A nearby town had two Dunkin' Donuts, a Tim Hortons opened up, it now has no Dunkin' Donuts.