f13.net

Forum Post Here (http://forum.nin.com/bb/read.php?9,731489).

I thought this was interesting if nothing else.

Who cares what Trent Reznor thinks about the internet?

I find it interesting, seeing as he has made an effort to really be part of the social networks and bring his music to people in new ways and with new pricing models.

One aspect I don't like is getting too... umm.. involved. I mean just down to the level of even making friends. I think it's a shame that you can meet cool people on the net, but that you may never meet them otherwise and never actually be friends in the end. To me, that's disenchanting. Why invest any time in people I'm truly not friends with? I think it's cool if certain groups or forums have a means of meeting people, even if occassionally.. but otherwise, wtf. The internet is nothing to revolve one's life or plans around.

This also applies to hate, I guess. Not just friendship.

If I'm derailing, tell me so! Not sure if I am. I think Trent is commenting about generalities, and not just music/etc..

Not a big fan of penpals either, are ya Stray?

Penpals or Twitter! Neither/nor :awesome_for_real:

Trent Reznor is yummy! 

I end up meeting a surprising number of intarweb people. And I haven't killed(or been killed by) any of them yet.

I hope Yegolev keeps his shirt on if If I ever meet him.

Trent Reznor proclaims internet folks potentially anonymous. Trent Reznor apparently considers taking heart disease advice from random person on internet, perhaps should consider anonymous short term memory doctor's advice in an attempt to remember his previously stated rudimentary knowledge of the internet.

The rest of us can consider long term memory help in recalling who the fuck Trent Reznor is and when he was last relevant.

He's been doing a lot on the internet and with twitter/myspace etc. Pushing the envelope on distribution ideas, trying different things. Like a lot of people, he's hit a limit to how much abuse you can take from random interweb fucknuts.

or

"Go to bed, old man!"

He was last relevant about the same time Mike Patton was.

 :grin:

I hope by that, you mean... never was irrelevant?

Last I checked, Mike Patton was God.

On that note, reviews of the Faith No More reunion show at the Brixton Academy have been pretty good. Here's hoping they make it to Australia.

Rupert (has a cat and likes The Cure) has been doing a lot with twitter/myspace etc, too. Nobody gives a fuck.

But I get the feeling that you probably couldn't distribute NIN music effectively in 2009 if you gave away free handjobs with each copy. Maybe he could try that - but then again, people on the internet may give you shit. Perhaps a scolding will set them straight.

You can come up in here and bitch about Reznor and I'm cool, w/e.  But don't talk shit about Patton or we'll have words. 

Everything Patton does nowadays is much better than what he was doing 10 or 20 years ago imho. Fantomas and Tomahawk are far better bands than FNM and Mr. Bungle. I believe Fantomas has the Bungle bass player, but it's also Lombardo on drums and Buzzo on guitar. Even a band with buzzo and lombardo and no Patton would be sick. Tomahawk has one of the best guitarists around with Denison (Jesus Lizard). Fantomas allows Patton to experiment, Tomahawk just rocks.

Except he's been making loads of money, getting a lot of press, and selling out concerts. Or by all means, keep talking out of your ass.

Trent Reznor was an NPC in Starcraft, right? 

 :x


How DARE you.

Not that I've ever been a huge NIN fan... but if selling out shows on a regular basis is irrelevant can someone please find an irrelevant band that needs an out of practice bass player? I'd like to be irrelevant like NIN instead of irrelevant and on a normal salary.

Seems that the money hat would make the irrelevance less painful.

...but by all means continue to slag him for not being on top 40 radio.  :oh_i_see:

I think he's only ever scratched the surface of Top 40 for two songs anyways. As popular as he is, he never was relevant in that fashion.

True, and kind of my point.

He's been constantly successful since the 80's without the need for people who identify their cool through music. Even when I thought his work was mediocre, folks were going nuts for him. I'll take that kind of irrelevance. :)

Good topic actually we were discussing something similar on (The West) chatzy channel yesterday of all places.

Precisely, but it's more fun when you just drop stuff like that without explaining you're being ironic.

I'm still a bit of an FNM fan & I would argue they were much more melodic and the songs were more crafted, plus I am biased towards rock music using synths. Tomahawk although I like it it's just gutteral noise by comparison.

 :uhrr:

^This. I don't like Trent Reznor or NIN much, I think he's a bit of a douche. I do, however, respect some of the efforts he makes for social networking and music distribution. The way he released Ghosts and The Slip I thought were great, and truly something I respect about him. I wish more musicians (namely when they get to a good level of fame and wealth) would reward fans from time to time.

It had to be done :grin:

Aren't you a Republican or something?

 :raspberry:

No, but some of bungle was pure clarity in vision. But it was not ALL Mike. Anyway, tomahawk and Fantomas, while interesting experiments.... much like much of Napalm death, are not comparable to the works of Faith, or Bungle. So, in no way can I agree they are "Better" as I don't even think they are anywhere near the same category. Unless you were speaking to the talent in the band makeup, i may agree, but those bands are certainly not the showcase.

I'm not sure what you mean by clarity of vision. Or what Fantomas and especially Tomahawk has to do with Napalm Death. Tomahawk isn't much of an experimental anything anyhow. Just a straight up rock band really, more comparable to FNM - except their guitarist is one of the meanest, ear piercing guitarists around.. and without even being metal. It helps that I'm a bigger fan of both the Melvins and the Jesus Lizard than I am FNM and Bungle anyways though.

Also yumnmy!

Pink cigarette. Air conditioned nightmare.

The connection to Napalm Death is patten. Its a loose one. Anyway, from my limited hearing of Fantomas, in concert only, i was..... Shocked. Sounded more of just another reason for his to make his mouth noises. lol. Just not my thing. Perhaps i need to listen to more of the studio stuff.

antelope ceremony = Rock and roll??   :ye_gods:

Also:

    * 2007 - The Darkness - Voice of The Darkness (Starbreeze Studios)
    * 2007 - Portal - Voice of the Anger Sphere (Valve Software)
    * 2008 - Left 4 Dead - Infected voices (Valve Software)
    * 2009 - Bionic Commando - Voice of Nathan Spencer - the Bionic Commando (Capcom)


I did not know this.

oh, and as for synths, Mike himself plays them full time (plus like a gazzilion mics) in Tomahawk. His voice is also the best it's been.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F72MGGpORMM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F72MGGpORMM)


anyways! :P



The third album was Tomahawk finally playing up to their namesake. Which is still something special... But go buy the first two albums. Mit Gas in particular.

Fantomas jumps around too. Most of it sounds like the Taz fronting a Death Metal band. You probably won't like it. Not all of it hard to appreciate though. They have one album full of movie scores that's a little more conventional to your ears. Like this Twin Peaks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgWGys_b3xM) cover, for example.

I'm pretty sick of social networks.  I think Reznor's right. I had to work on this stuff for nearly a decade and it's fundamentally about advertising $$ and not community.  The Well is long long long gone, and so is NWN on AOL.

As AOL was once the onboarding tool for many non-technical people to the InterWebz so now social networks are the tool to widen the net.  Personally, I have a derelict Facebook page with a friends list that exists only because my wife uses her own daily.  I never had a MySpace page.  I've never shared del.icio.us stuff or google reader links or bloody anything.  I have a LinkedIn mostly to help former staff for referrals.  The places I want to visit and bother reading are actual communities like f13.  The rest of that stuff is noise. 

I guess i just equate what i have heard from those two bands to be somewhere between full on pop (like the track you posted, that sounds a lot like the styling of one of those Dave grohl bands..., who i loved with killing joke, don't get me wrong) and Disco Volante, with less sense.

I am currently educating myself, go go Pandora. As for Death metal, its my genre of choice, however i am picky in that genre too. I do, however listen to some really odd shit, but some of what i have heard (live) from Fantomas, just didn't hook me.

New GWAR album in August BTW.  :drill:

Hehe ok point, but they aren't quite the same as the 80's drone sounds used by Roddy Bottum I really thought that was adventurous when all the other rock bands of the time were composed of three piece or dual guitars. Not only did it make them sound unique but if you listen to it now the sound hasn't dated a huge amount. FNM was a pretty solid lineup of musicians aswell and afaik they are touring again sans Chris Martin.

When did you equate anything to be somewhere between full on pop? You said Tomahawk is experimental stuff like "Antelope Ceremony" when I said they rocked. Antelope Ceremony is just from the last album. You said Fantomas was just an excuse for Patton to make mouth noises, when he's sung plenty on some of their songs. I've showed you an example. You're not making any sense. Nor does either one of those bands approach anything near Dave Grohl territory (in any of his incarnations). Not that I don't like Grohl. I do. Still makes no sense though.

Anyways, if you like Patton, just buy Mit Gas and be done with it. Put in your car, blast it, and get in a fight. Just not with me. I'm bored now.

If you're a Patton fan and you haven't listened to his EP with the Dillinger Escape Plan, do yourself a favour and track it down.  It's easily the best work that DEP has put out, and it's Patton at his finest.

This. You can bag on Reznor all you want because you don't like his music or think he's an overdramatic twerp. But his experiment with social media and new distribution channels has been fucking awesome. He's been part of the music industry that has championed downloadable music and he'd given away entire albums for free over the interwebs. Contrast that with a group of dickbags like Metallica has been lately and it's a lot more relevant than most musicians.

Seeling em out where? The local VFW hall or county fair?

He's probably made a shit-ton off "Hurt" and the collaborations he does with other artists, I too have a huge amount of time for Trent Reznor at least he's not that disillusioned as to not even try in the first place. Plus perfect drug is a very awesome choon.

NIN and Jane's Addiction just came into Austin not too long ago and sold out pretty quickly. That's a modest stadium sized show in a city that hosts just about any band there is. The fact that they even have to make their venues that big is hardly irrelevance. I've seen Snoop Dogg play in small outdoor areas behind clubs there.

Why you do guys mistake your own unawareness for someone's irrelevance? That's the real issue here. I mean, don't get me wrong.. Being unaware is not a crime. Some of the stuff you do is more than likely worth paying attention to more than what happens in music.. maybe you work a lot or you're married. But there ya go. You're finally old, ignorant, and domesticated! Weee! No really though, what the hell is relevant then? Jonas Brothers? Or some other Disney band? Or maybe what plays a lot on your local rock station -- which is more than likely about the same 4 Nickelback songs. I don't know about you, but Nickelback is so "irrelevant" that I've literally deleted people off of my FB page for liking them (cute chicks even.. I'm just that kind of equal opportunity asshole). That and Dane Cook fans.

tl;dr... Wait, nevermind.

No, YOU like Britney Spears.



Really. Come on, guys.

I don't give a shit about Trent Reznor or anything he does. That's why I made the comments I did (actually, I was mainly trolling, but..). That, and, you know, what he wrote was dumb as fuck and I felt like making fun of it.

But defend him by saying you like his music, or that his ideas are great. That's fine. Going into a tirade about how I must listen to The Jonas Brothers is pretty stupid though.

Maybe I AM old. Although I specifically remember Trent Reznor being around ten or fifteen years ago, and I thought he sucked cocks then. I've had no desire to go looking him up in 2009.

"Boy, I wonder if Dave Grohl has made any really great music lately?!"

See, not really.

So what you should have said is he's irrelevant TO YOU?

And then fucked right off and not posted in the thread because if there was one more thing most of us needed, it was another troll post.

You know what?

I don't like you internet people. You're anonymous and hurtful.

No, you.  :awesome_for_real:

NIN devolved into self-parody eons ago. Neil Diamond sells out a lot of shows too.

I didn't say you liked Britney Spears, nor was that a tirade. It was a question (albeit an extended one). I'm just asking what is relevant to you? I can't wrap my head around that. He qualifies as "relevant" in most ways a musician can anymore.

His comment wasn't stupid because here you are proving him correct. You admittedly chose to just be a troll. It's not like you have to suck our dicks or anything.. But the least you could do is find better ways to entertain yourself than fuck other people's discussions up.

IDIOTS RULE  :grin:

Not until we see Tubgirl.  :oh_i_see:

Special? It's goddamn awesome, but then I've always loved fusion music. Traditional tribal rhythms + rock? Yes please.  It was great when FNM used some as a basis for tracks on Angel Dust and I love the Tomahawk album even more.  Ghost Dance, Antelope Ceremony, Red Fox and Crow Dance roxxorz my boxxorz.

Yeah, I don't mean to play it down. He just seemed to be saying it was their defining sound or something. But it's a departure from the band's typical sound.

I mean it's special though in the sense that it might be the first worthwhile fusion between Indian tribal songs and rock. Most indian bands just play the blues or some shit and say "CHEEEEROKEEE PEOPLE!!"

Threads like this make me stop wishing there was a Music board on F13.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Trent Reznor irrelevant?
Fantomas/Tomahawk better than FNM/Mr Bungle?

 :uhrr:

Another Mike P. fan here.  I like his Mr. Bungle work, some Fantomas, haven't tried Tomahawk.  I even bought his 'voice' album.  Very glad to hear FNM is back, hopefully with a new album?  I need to scour the interwebs.

I think Stray likes being controversial or is just getting caught up in the moment. No way in hell are either of those bands better than FNM in fact even without Mike Patton FNM were p good (Introduce Yourself). I never followed the Mr Bungle bandwagon far too pseudo intellectual for my liking.

Trent should start posting here. Does he really not realize most longer-lasting internet communities have basically been vetted? Go to harmony central and most people know each other there. You don't weed out the posers, but you know when a geezer member is posting and can just skip the newbs.

Lots of people use real pics and have band links in their sigs.

Patton is a lot of wasted talent. I admit I haven't heard recent stuff, but early Fantomas and Tomahawk was pretty uneven imo. I get that he's pushing things and being a non-traditional artist, and once in a blue moon that's cool. But when listening to music, I want to listen to music, not an aural art experiment. It's where bands like Mars Volta fall down, too. Some amazingly good tunes sandwiched between a lot of nonsense that's not listenable unless you're stoned or tripping.

I guess I'm glad I got out of music when I did, we would probably have ended up in that vein, since we started as thrash and moved into more progmetal type stuff.

I didn't know Sky was my Grandad!

No, I'm not being controversial. Yes, I like Tomahawk and Fantomas more than the older bands. Big deal. And it's not like I don't like bungle and FNM, so I don't see what anyone's bemoaning in the first place. You question my taste in music, yet I like the same bands? What is that? ??? Anyhow, I'm just a little older than you Mattemeo (31) and just a little younger than Sky, so many of us probably grew up with similar music.

Anyways, I will especially make the case for Tomahawk. Duane Denison is already one of my favorite guitarists. Search my post history and you'll find I've mentioned him and the Lizard probably going back years here. If there's a music thread, I've mentioned the Jesus Lizard. Except in Tomahawk's case, he's got an amazing singer in Patton. David Yow was awesome, but he was also a clown. So to me, it's like having the Jesus Lizard with an even more talented clown.

I don't know what it is, but besides loving Patton's vocals, Tomahawk just don't do enough for me - more sanitized than FNM, less idiosyncratic than Mr Bungle. I don't dislike them as a band, I just can't feel the swell of victory I can when I hear his earlier work.

That said, of the more recent Patton projects, the one I think he needs to return to with utmost urgency (besides FNM) is Lovage, his collaboration with Dan the Automator and Jennifer Charles. 'Music to Make Love to Your Old Lady By' is one of the cleverest, funniest and well put together hip-hop/trip-hop records ever made. I was hoping Peeping Tom would be somewhere in the same vein, but sadly that was some neat ideas thrown to the winds of celebrity.

I liked Lovage when it came out, but now I've only kept around one track, and it's more Jennifer Charles' tune.

Re: Tomahawk.. I don't know what to say. To each his own. I don't know, I drive a lot.. Mit Gas is a kick ass driving album, I'll just say that. :grin:

Well I amn't questioning your taste in music bro I really like Tomahawk too, though they sound like Aphex Twin with raucous guitars. It's probably Patton's most exciting work since Angel Dust you're entitled to your opinion but I just think you are getting a bit carried away by saying they are better than FNM but then I'm entitled to my opinion there too, it's all subjective anyway and maybe I've got rose tinted glasses when it comes to FNM.

It has nothing to do with being carried away. You seem to think I have to be a fan of Patton simply because of Faith No More or something. Like that's the pinnacle. When it's never necessarily been the case. I've always liked him, and his older bands, but the people he works with nowadays were always more up my alley. Melvins, the Jesus Lizard, Helmet, Slayer. That's the little circle of musicians that Fantomas and Tomahawk revolves around. Not only do I like Tomahawk and Fantomas more than FNM and Bungle - I already liked the Melvins, Lizard, Helmet, and Slayer more than FNM and Bungle too. That Patton now colloborates with them is like having my cake and eating it too.

I'd take FNM over all of those bands put together but then I have a preference for music with strong melodies so as I said it's all subjective, what I like about Tomahawk is they are tight as fuck and still have a raw energy. The carried away remark was in reference to how these bands particular lineups excite you. But great lineups don't always make great music some bands just have a good chemistry, I know this as I'm a musician myself (albeit a washed up one).

I like melody too, but I always wished I could hear a really tight, abrasive band like Lizard or Big Black/Rapeman -- But with a properly skilled singer and slicker production. Let alone make a band like that. The minute I heard Tomahawk, I realized that's what they pulled off. I've always like rock more with that kind of attack.. although most were blues tinged (like early Danzig or AC/DC).

You do realize that this entire Patton tangent is likely a contributing factor in Trent wanting to take the anonymous out of his internet.

Which really isn't all that horrible of an idea. I'm not so sure it's disenchantment and not just enhancement.

I'm not following...? There's nothing anonymous about me. My name is Ken. Nice to meet you.  :grin:

Following Trent's whinging, it sounds like he's saying you're not qualified to derail us like this.  Get back on topic, Ken and stop being a googlethority.   Or something like that.

Which I expect. After all, Trent's kind of "non-anonymity" means F13, as a site, would be purposeless.  Instead it would be replaced by the Halcyon days of Mud_Dev where only 'Rednames' squak at each other about how brilliant/ stupid they are.   The rest of us simply don't have the credentials and can be ignored entirely.

 :grin:

For the record, I never derailed it. You did! You mentioned Patton! You! ^_^


edit:

Anyhow, to "rerail" it back.. The bulk of his post is more about trolls and spammers. That's what got him disenchanted, I think. Morfiend only quoted the bottom end of his post. But I don't blame him either. The guy reaches out to the internet world, and is just met with tubgirl and bullshitters. And from what I gather, he couldn't stop them. It sounded like some of the same people kept bothering him, no matter how much he tried deleting them. They apparently have nothing better to do. That, and I think because he's fell in love, is a different guy in his 40's, that some fans want to dictate who he is supposed to be, instead of he himself. Like he's supposed to always be Pretty Hate Machine instead of a simple guy enjoying life. I can imagine that he got messages everyday from some anonymous shit calling him a "sell out" or something along those lines. That shit would make me give up too. I'm not even a celebrity, but that kind of projecting and authority shit, just on a normal everyday joe level, is guaranteed to get me dropping "friends" and such. If I had to see it at his level, I'd do my best to get away from the things that contribute to it too. In his case, his social networking pages.

Re-de-rail:

Tomahawk and Fantomas are much tighter and interesting than Mr Bungle, but Mr Bungle contains a hell of a lot of where Patton went from and arrived at. I've never bothered to track down the EPs, but the gap in quality / product between Mr Bungle's self-titled album to Disco Volante to California is HUGE. Ditto the jump from FNM's The Real Thing to Angel Dust. Tomahawk and Fantomas are just more focused on what they are meant to be.

But anyway, where I think Patton should get major respect is that amount of quality work in different areas he puts out. He's doing Tomahawk, Fantomas, Peeping Tom, guest appearances all over the place, partly running Ipecac and signing / releasing other artists, doing voices for video games and also some acting. Now Faith No More and a big tour with them. The man's a machine. I'm sure he's made enough money off FNM to sit back and not do much with his time, but he still goes out and creates and performs, sometimes for audiences who don't even want him (Peeping Tom fronting for The Who, for instance).

Anyway, here's a link about FNM at the Big Download Festival: http://www.antiquiet.com/shows/2009/06/faith-no-more-download-festival/

I'd love a new Lovage album, provided it doesn't send up like the second Handsome Boy Modelling School release: really ordinary (and ironically with a Mike Patton track).

He is a machine, and it ruined his marriage. Which in turn, lead him to work even harder on even more projects. Sometimes, I wish I had even a fraction of his relentless drive - I'm immensely lethargic and doing anything takes me far more effort than it ought to - but even I know that Patton's a cold case workaholic. Reznor isn't far off - he's never quite as prominent within the industry as Patton but he's got thumbs in many pies and is obviously more vocal thanks to his fan relations, though how much of this he'll be stemming now remains to be seen.


The second Handsome Boy Modelling School album suffered the same problem Peeping Tom did - too many guest/celebrities standing on tip-toes going 'ooh ooh, me me!' and the focus and quality control died. The tracklisting of 'White People' is a long line of (feat. xxx)s, and if it's not carefully organised it just becomes a mess of disparate vocalists. I like the album but it's nothing on 'So... Hows Your Girl?' and Lovage's 'Music to Make Love...'

I'm bored but I'm regretting reading gen disc.  Thanks Soln for saving two threads by posting something useful in them (this and the casino thread).  Also people responding an Az post?  While laughing about Reznor not getting the internet?  Nice work there guys.

Hello, I'm Trent Reznor. Pleased to meet you.

It is very easy for people to misrepresent themselves on the Internet, but when everything is being picked over by crooks, predators and arseholes it's generally not a good idea to be publishing a biography and digitally signing everything. However, developing electronic conferencing facilities that provide escrow mechanisms for semi-private data would certainly have value.

Hah! I knew you were Trent, man. All this time. Especially Signe vaguely referring occasionally to her brushing shoulders with many musicians and such. She's Mariqueen probably.


On another note, I think I accused Sky once of secretly being CeCe DeVille. Or I bet he's somebody like that. :why_so_serious:

There is all the Metal Sludge stuff that but there's also a recent episode which really threw the shitmonkeys into the spotlight. Reznor recently held a little random NIN/JA VIP ticket give away on Twitter for arbitrary reasons.  Shortly afterwards, he got invovled in raising money for this guy who needs a heart transplant (younger brother of Veronica De La Cruz (http://www.veronicadelacruzonline.com/), a CNN anchor).  NIN and Jane's Addiction decided to sell off tickets to raise money for this which included back-stage passes and all sorts of extras. They raised a fuck ton of money ($850K apparently (http://store.nin.com/helperic/)) but in the middle of all this, Reznor apparently downgraded the free tickets he gave away on Twitter or something so that he could make more space for people willing to part with money for charitable purposes.

This, of course, brought the worst elements of the internet out who were angry - nay, furious - that something they got for free was now just a free ticket to a gig rather than a personal invite to hang out backstage like those who paid for that particular pleasure.