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Title: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: IainC on May 30, 2009, 09:41:48 AM Some ... surprising names as well as some curious omissions.
1. Rob Pardo 2. Hilmar Pétursson 3. John Smedley 4. Jack Emmert 5. Mark Jacobs 6. Todd Coleman 7. Jim Crowley 8. Andrew Gower 9. Chris Cheung 10. Michael Capps 11. Raph Koster 12. Rob Seaver 13. Jeffrey Steefel 14. Russell Williams 15. Gaute Godager 16. Richard Garriott 17. Min Kim 18. Gordon Walton 19. David Perry 20. Jeff Hickman & Paul Barnett Source (http://www.beckett.com/estore/news/?eskin=subMOG&a=10166&s=118) Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Rendakor on May 30, 2009, 09:54:41 AM I bet schild will be happy about a certain omssion.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Goreschach on May 30, 2009, 10:33:12 AM From a strictly objective standpoint, you can't argue that a good portion of the people on the list haven't influenced the MMO industry, but this really does point out just what a gigantic failboat the entire industry is.
And does this mean Paul Barnett is only half a man? Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Modern Angel on May 30, 2009, 10:42:08 AM Unemployed Gaute Godager on the list, Tigole not on list. Beckett confirms irrelevancy once more.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Xanthippe on May 30, 2009, 01:04:19 PM This is like those "Top 10 places to live" articles, isn't it? One guy's opinion - and that guy is too chicken to put his name on it, or to justify his list in any way.
Meaningless fluff. Well, at least now I know who Beckett is. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Venkman on May 30, 2009, 01:47:52 PM What the heck's a Beckett and why am I supposed to care?
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: gryeyes on May 30, 2009, 02:48:06 PM (http://games.infinitecoolness.com/01/vampirethemasqueradebloodlines14.jpg)
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Falwell on May 30, 2009, 03:45:12 PM What the heck's a Beckett and why am I supposed to care? The only reason I know the name is that they, WAY back in the day, were the big baseball card price guide. What the fuck they're about now with ranking video game gents is beyond me. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Koyasha on May 30, 2009, 05:21:28 PM You'd think they'd have included Brad McQuaid; whatever one thinks of him or his games, I'd say 'influential' definitely applies, since we're still primarily playing games descended almost directly from EQ.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: tmp on May 30, 2009, 05:35:22 PM You'd think they'd have included Brad McQuaid; whatever one thinks of him or his games, I'd say 'influential' definitely applies, since we're still primarily playing games descended almost directly from EQ. It's a list "for year 2008" so i'm guessing these names were picked based on last year achievements/activity or at least something relatively recent, rather than everything they did no matter how long time ago..?Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Lantyssa on May 30, 2009, 07:54:02 PM Interesting way to sell copies. "Hey, let's pick some names that make everyone go 'Huh?' so they buy our issue to see why we made that decision!"\
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Numtini on May 30, 2009, 07:58:53 PM 1-999 -- 999 people from Blizzard you've never heard of.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Sheepherder on May 30, 2009, 08:24:37 PM The word was "influential", which means arrogant prick who draws a hundred enamoured starfuckers ever time they visit a forum.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Venkman on May 30, 2009, 08:29:40 PM Speaking of forums, I think most threads around here get more posts than Beckett's entire forum. Seriously, what is up with that place? I only because this list was brought here presumably because the source matters in some form. I feel like any one of us coulda made that list. IainC, there something about that place that matters? I'm genuinely curious.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Draegan on May 31, 2009, 05:34:20 AM You'd think they'd have included Brad McQuaid; whatever one thinks of him or his games, I'd say 'influential' definitely applies, since we're still primarily playing games descended almost directly from EQ. Yet he stole he whole design premise from a fucking MUD. The. Entire. Thing. Maybe he invented 3D games. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: IainC on May 31, 2009, 05:45:31 AM Speaking of forums, I think most threads around here get more posts than Beckett's entire forum. Seriously, what is up with that place? I only because this list was brought here presumably because the source matters in some form. I feel like any one of us coulda made that list. IainC, there something about that place that matters? I'm genuinely curious. They're not so big in the online space but they publish a lot of print media. As Falwell said they are mainly a guide for collectible stuff however they've branched out into all kinds avenues since. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Krakrok on May 31, 2009, 08:26:32 AM You'd think they'd have included Brad McQuaid; whatever one thinks of him or his games, I'd say 'influential' definitely applies, since we're still primarily playing games descended almost directly from EQ. Yet he stole he whole design premise from a fucking MUD. The. Entire. Thing. Maybe he invented 3D games. Vs. Blizzard which stole their whole design premise from a guy who stole his whole design premise from a MUD. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Venkman on May 31, 2009, 12:43:50 PM Oh please not this again. Everything in life is *evolutionary*. it's extremely rare for there to be one single event that produced a quantum shift in anything. If you don't start with that understanding, you'll eventually arrive there after having unraveled the true origins of something back to it's true roots. The diku system had more ancestors than descendants.
@IainC: ok that makes sense. So a web site for a portal of strategy guides ala Prima? Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: UnSub on May 31, 2009, 09:41:50 PM We did this dance last year when Beckett released the 2008 edition of the list.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: gehrig38 on June 30, 2009, 07:47:50 AM You'd think they'd have included Brad McQuaid; whatever one thinks of him or his games, I'd say 'influential' definitely applies, since we're still primarily playing games descended almost directly from EQ. Yet he stole he whole design premise from a fucking MUD. The. Entire. Thing. Maybe he invented 3D games. Vs. Blizzard which stole their whole design premise from a guy who stole his whole design premise from a MUD. Exactly. If anything it's a recognition of people that recognized the future faster than the other thieves... Says the thief.... Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: schild on June 30, 2009, 07:49:19 AM Quote Says the thief.... So this is where we should stop caring? :oh_i_see: Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: gehrig38 on June 30, 2009, 07:51:03 AM Nah, there are just tried, true, and tested things that the MMO space has proven work, and that players love. Don't reinvent the wheel where you don't have to. There are core game philosophies and mechanics that work, and always will. The key is having the right people PICK the right ones, and then innovating on top of that.
I think you'll come to care when you see it, I hope anyway. If not we'll get you at some point:) Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Cyrrex on June 30, 2009, 08:10:05 AM Quote Nah, there are just tried, true, and tested things that the MMO space has proven work Judging by how often they actually seem to fail, I think our definition of "work" might differ. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: schild on June 30, 2009, 01:35:22 PM Nah, there are just tried, true, and tested things that the MMO space has proven work, and that players love. Don't reinvent the wheel where you don't have to. There are core game philosophies and mechanics that work, and always will. The key is having the right people PICK the right ones, and then innovating on top of that. I'm sorry. I just can't let this go.I think you'll come to care when you see it, I hope anyway. If not we'll get you at some point:) This post is so unbelievably short-sighted and stupid that I kinda wanna smack you upside the head with a sock full of rocks. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: gehrig38 on June 30, 2009, 01:55:19 PM If we ever run into each other in public make sure to introduce yourself. I always enjoy meeting folks like you publicly and ftf.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Rasix on June 30, 2009, 01:56:28 PM I'll be sure to send him a ball for you to sign. :why_so_serious:
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: schild on June 30, 2009, 02:02:13 PM If we ever run into each other in public make sure to introduce yourself. I always enjoy meeting folks like you publicly and ftf. I'll be at AGC. And drunk. Most likely, at least. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: sam, an eggplant on June 30, 2009, 02:26:20 PM You're reading a lot into that statement. He didn't come out and say he was making yet another dikuclone, or even really imply it. His core philosophies and mechanics may be, like, "avatar customization" and "rewarding exploration", two concepts I can get behind. Nobody knows anything about his game yet, so it's a bit early to demonize the guy.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: gryeyes on June 30, 2009, 02:28:25 PM A duel to the pain!
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Vash on June 30, 2009, 02:42:02 PM You're reading a lot into that statement. He didn't come out and say he was making yet another dikuclone, or even really imply it. His core philosophies and mechanics may be, like, "avatar customization" and "rewarding exploration", two concepts I can get behind. Nobody knows anything about his game yet, so it's a bit early to demonize the guy. Except that the developers of every major "AAA" MMO since WoW have spouted some variation of those exact words while they drove their game into the ground or close to it by following that ideology blindly instead of paying more attention to player/customer feedback. At this point hearing a MMO developer say that may as well be the official prophecy/motto of doom and failure. Having (somewhat) new blood break into the MMO scene and repeat those fabled words is pretty sad/frustrating if you've been around the block before. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: sam, an eggplant on June 30, 2009, 02:50:14 PM Hah. I rounded that block many times, transcended the hardened cynical phase in which you still live, broke through my crystallus, and emerged a beautiful butterfly, hoping against hope for a new dawn to dry the dew off my newly budded wings.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: schild on June 30, 2009, 02:52:01 PM Hah. I rounded that block many times, passed through and transcended the hardened cynical phase in which you still live, breaking my crystallus, and emerged a beautiful hopeful butterfly. Have you signed up for Bat Country in Fallen Earth yet?Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Lantyssa on June 30, 2009, 02:52:35 PM Watch out for windshields, little flutterby.
Edit: Have you signed up for Bat Country in Fallen Earth yet? We have a sign-up?Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: schild on June 30, 2009, 02:58:49 PM Watch out for windshields, little flutterby. For retail. Just to gauge interest.Edit: Have you signed up for Bat Country in Fallen Earth yet? We have a sign-up?Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: sam, an eggplant on June 30, 2009, 03:09:20 PM Damn you, quoting my post before I finished editing!
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Falconeer on June 30, 2009, 03:26:28 PM What the heck's a Beckett (http://www.arcadepub.com/resources/persons/338.gif) Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Tale on June 30, 2009, 04:15:57 PM What the heck's a Beckett (http://www.bridgetabeckett.com/images/header.jpg) (http://www.bridgetabeckett.com/) Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: schild on June 30, 2009, 06:16:20 PM Sometimes I wish we could be less funny.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Ingmar on June 30, 2009, 06:18:22 PM Will no one rid us of these turbulent posters?
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Sjofn on June 30, 2009, 07:09:35 PM Will no one rid us of these turbulent posters? God, are you sexy sometimes. :Love_Letters: Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Lantyssa on June 30, 2009, 08:32:54 PM Hey, hey, HEY! Get a private thread! :-P
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Sjofn on June 30, 2009, 10:32:10 PM I thought it would nice to share!
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: gehrig38 on July 01, 2009, 09:23:35 AM Having (somewhat) new blood break into the MMO scene and repeat those fabled words is pretty sad/frustrating if you've been around the block before. You haven't been around the block any more or less than I have, so I am not sure what that means. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: schild on July 01, 2009, 09:27:17 AM Having (somewhat) new blood break into the MMO scene and repeat those fabled words is pretty sad/frustrating if you've been around the block before. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: gehrig38 on July 01, 2009, 09:34:56 AM Na, I just find it humorous that posters, for whatever reason, assume they have this lengthy resume of MMO experience and so many "back in the day" stories that folks working in the industry don't.
It's likely I started playing MMO's when most of the folks here did, I know I started gaming around 28 years ago (Wizardry!!!), and much like my baseball career I was a fan before I played, I was a gamer, and still am, before I got into the industry. I have an overwhelming desire to not let it suck, no different than any MMO fans here. I don't want to repeat mistakes, I do hope people see the cool new stuff as innovative design on top of tried, tested and accepted practices. Lastly though, I 'troll' these boards to chat about stuff Danuser or Roberts won't kill me for talking about because I am interested in talking about game play and ideas around the game we're making, and the games I am playing. I don't do e-peen, that only happens and is a game I can compete in only when I have a baseball in my hand. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Tale on July 01, 2009, 09:43:43 AM Raph's games autogenerate e-peen, you can't possibly win.
(http://users.on.net/~svandore/pics/ilong.gif) Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Vash on July 01, 2009, 09:54:37 AM Wasn't trying to start any e-peen contests at all, just sumarizing why your comment might cause schild to want to consider threats of physical harm.
Unless you were developing games while also playing pro baseball instead of just playing them I don't see why you and your company wouldn't be considered new blood in the MMO market. The somewhat qualifier was because you obviously have developers on board with past industry experience. The around the block just means if you've been listening to the developers of LOTRO, AoC, WAR etc. prior to their launches, which is just the last few years. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Triforcer on July 01, 2009, 10:05:01 AM In all fairness, how much do the "lessons" of small-scale MUDs really matter, given how much the genre has evolved? His MMO is going to be a triple AAA affair, hopefully profitable. It makes sense you take lessons from the successes and failures of other AAA affairs. MUDs were more intimate communities, not geared to mass-market commercialism, and the design reflected that.
If you are building a supersonic jet you may respect the Wright brothers for getting the ball rolling, but that doesn't mean its worthwhile anymore to take flight engineering tips from them. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: UnSub on July 01, 2009, 07:25:47 PM To some extent Copernicus is what happens when MMO fans with serious money think, "We should make a MMO".
The final quality depends on 1) what these fans want to create, 2) what lessons they learned from previous titles and 3) the people they hire to get the job done. And then its only details like how the game actually plays. :grin: Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Kirth on July 02, 2009, 01:49:48 PM To some extent Copernicus is what happens when MMO fans with serious money think, "We should make a MMO". The final quality depends on 1) what these fans want to create, 2) what lessons they learned from previous titles and 3) the people they hire to get the job done. And then its only details like how the game actually plays. :grin: 4) not releasing until the job is done. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: UnSub on July 02, 2009, 08:26:42 PM It's never done. It might be 95% working as intended at launch and the intended might be fun. Might.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Raph on July 07, 2009, 03:52:21 PM In all fairness, how much do the "lessons" of small-scale MUDs really matter, given how much the genre has evolved? Quite a lot still, I think. The AAA commercial MMOs have changed a LOT, don't get me wrong. But just as one example, the core lessons for things like how to evaluate advancement rates & set up experience point curves, create interdependence between classes, the core class archetypes themselves, the fundamental combat system, good zone flow, the fundamentals of the social interaction systems -- all that stuff carries over. Let's not forget how many fundamentals that are at the core of the gameplay got established back then. Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: SnakeCharmer on July 07, 2009, 04:19:10 PM True.
And the sooner the old guard that hasn't realized we're not playing DnD at the cafeteria lunchroom moves on or dies off and the new guard wakes up and says 'This shit SUCKS' and creates something new, the better off we'll be. (There probably should be a period in there somewhere....) Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: ShenMolo on July 10, 2009, 04:34:11 AM In all fairness, how much do the "lessons" of small-scale MUDs really matter, given how much the genre has evolved? Quite a lot still, I think. The AAA commercial MMOs have changed a LOT, don't get me wrong. But just as one example, the core lessons for things like how to evaluate advancement rates & set up experience point curves, create interdependence between classes, the core class archetypes themselves, the fundamental combat system, good zone flow, the fundamentals of the social interaction systems -- all that stuff carries over. Let's not forget how many fundamentals that are at the core of the gameplay got established back then. Heck, that stuff was established with: Good old AD&D (http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8070/dungeonmasterguide4cove.jpg) Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Senses on July 10, 2009, 06:08:02 PM Lol, seeing that book and the picture of the frightening devil on the front reminds me why when i was 12, my Jehova Witness Maid thew away every D&D book I had one day and told my Father that she had done us all a favor by chasing off Satan.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: schild on July 10, 2009, 07:01:37 PM She owes you some money then.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Ingmar on July 10, 2009, 07:03:47 PM Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Senses on July 10, 2009, 07:10:37 PM Yeah, strange how it worked out. She got fired, my Dad got paid, and I got nothing.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Sjofn on July 10, 2009, 10:26:29 PM God, are you sexy sometimes. :Love_Letters: Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Pezzle on July 10, 2009, 11:22:54 PM Or you can look back further.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/D%26d_original.jpg) Sadly set is from 83 onward =( Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Lantyssa on July 10, 2009, 11:53:45 PM I must be getting old. I want to pinch Sjofn and Ingmar's cheeks, they're so dorkily cute.
Title: Re: Beckett's Most Influential People in the MMO Industry Post by: Sjofn on July 11, 2009, 01:46:15 AM I must be getting old. I want to pinch Sjofn and Ingmar's cheeks, they're so dorkily cute. Funny you should say that, Ingmar called me a dork the second he saw my post. :drillf: |