f13.net

So it took me a week to wander into the LFG tab.  I had read on the official boards that it was well hidden, but I never really bothered to track it down.

If there's anyone else out there who hadn't found it yet, its on the Who tab under the Social option.  Top right.  The page also lets you search for other /lfg people, organized by zone, race, and (I think) class.

Yeah, but for some reason it doesn't "work" heh. I've been using LFG since the first day, but I haven't had a group yet. I'm not sure if it's the chat interface as Haemish pointed out in his writeup, but WoW just isn't a very social game (well, besides the tards in general chat).

Luckily, some friends are buying it, so my soloing days will be over.

Am I playing a different game?  At level 12-13 I've needed groups for the last four quests.  And it wasn't a gimp-character problem - Paladins several levels above me were also seeking help with the same quests  (in Loch Modan, FWIW).  Quests that said, right up front:  "Bring friends along."

I'm grouping on most things that need groups with my guild, which is about 30 peeps strong at peak hours. Otherwise I save it for later. I'm not a huge fan of "Epic Quests" but maybe I'll come around once I can find the time to actually complete one. Right now they are running a bit long.

The only quests I've NEEDED groups on are the elite quests. The others can be done. I've grouped on two other quests, but only because I got invited after a few deaths. Most of the quests I've seen can be done solo with either really careful pulling and aggro management or just patience and a few deaths.

I've never used the LFG tag, even in beta.

Those quests that require a group almost always have people milling around, needing others to help them complete the task. I usually just ask, "are you doing so and so?" and people always could use another hand to get the quest done faster.

(Also, if you are trying to kill a named guy that only pops every few mintues, I try to gather all the stragglers into my group so they don't kill steal. It's a win-win, we all get it done faster.)

Of course, unless you are in a guild, WoW grouping is often a one-quest-stand. Sometimes you will hook up with someone cool that you'll want to hang out with for a while, but most of the time, it's "gee, I have to get up early for work ... so ..."

That's usually my strategy for the kill the named situation.  Of course, if they decline, I've got instacasts. Nothing like watching people burn down something you tagged first.

It's probably a good thing I have general chat off.

Did that the other night.  Fireblast 4tw.  I actually got really good at spinning in place, spamming TAB, facing the target and fireblasting.

The fact that groups only seem to have in-game impact in a close range has an interesting side effect.  On the server in which I'm actually in a guild, people routinely hang out in groups of 5 people, even if they're all on separate parts of the continent doing separate things.  They just run around and chat.  The only weirdness I've seen so for is that you still roll for green loot, even though you're the only roller and you always win.

I've grouped once, for a couple of elite quests in Wailing Caverns. I haven't done all the WC quests yet, nor the next batch (some dungeon near stagnant oasis). Now that the rest of the WC quests are green and five levels below me, I've found that I can manage to solo there, though the xp/cash rate is too low to make it worthwhile. Several evenings of doing not much other than trying to get an elite quest group together have been unsuccessful. Most people just aren't interested in grouping in WoW.

I need to do some elite quests in Ragfire Chasm or whatever that is. I'd like to do it tonight. I'm LFG.

I have one elite quest in Ragefire that I need to do as well. Might look for you tonight if I'm able to get on.

Bring a full group (crowd control + a decent healer is a must).  That instance is all kind of suck unless you're grossly overleveled for it.  Groups of 3 mobs (plus adds) where two can heal and all hit very hard for their level can lead to bad times. I think we finished one of the quests, suffered a couple bad wipeouts then just said fuck it and went off to do some quests in Silverpine and Pyrewood Villiage (fun area).

I would like to group with you... just for the comedy.

We do that all the time in my guild. Typically we talk in group chat, guild chat, and officer chat depending on who we want to talk to at the moment. There are 3-4 of us that are almost always grouped and usually only maybe 2 of us are in the same area at any one time. We just like chatting.

Is it that the chat system's habit of switching channel colors or numbers around from one login to the next is annoying, or the fact that you can't default speak to a chat channel that prevents people from using chat channels for this purpose, I wonder...  A group of friends and I that came over from EQ just set up our usual channel and that's it..

We set up a chat channel before the guild was up and working. Mostly people didn't like that it was the same color as other chat. We probably coulda fixed it to be other colors but we're lazy gamers.

I agree. This is serious design flaw that I think could be easily corrected by easing up exp. distribution in a group settings. As of right now you are always better off soloing and only time you would want to group is to PvP or do instances. While grouped I usually level once per game session, when I solo I level multiple times per game session as a result even if I like to group with my friends and guildmates I rarely do it outside of doing instances.

Or by ignoring your rate of exp flow and just enjoying the game ;) Take the road less traveled, grasshopper.

Even if you do make the effort to travel that road yourself, I think a lot of people are thinking along the same lines as sinij. Not only did I have lfg on all last night, but I invited at least 5 people to join up with me whenever I was in the same areas as them. Every time the answer was: "no thx im soloing".

I got that a lot as well. The biggest problem I had was when they were soloing quests that were "Slay x amount of mobs" type. Hey dipshit, a group can only help you do that faster. Morons.

I did jus that for a while and that ended up with me running our of level-approriate quests and forcing me to kill spawn solo to get levels.

Thing is if you can solo you are better off doing just that, even in 'slay x mobs' type of quests. If you solo x mobs you will get a lot more expirience than doing it grouped.

That logic sort of defies the "time is money" approach to these games. I don't think I've ever cared about the xp I get from mobs unless I'm rested so far in the game. It's always about getting the quests done fast.

The only reason you aren't finding quests that are lvl appropriate is that you aren't moving around at all.  Yes, if you stay in one place (your starting area) and finish all the quests there, you will run out of quests that are doable at your level.

The easiest solution is to actually travel to the other locations within your respective lands (alliance or horde.)  You will find that there are a ton of quests there open to you at your level or below that get you even more levels very quickly without doing mindless camping, etc.  Each side has 3 areas they can constantly move around to in this game to keep your quest book flowing with lvl appropriate quests.

There really is no excuse to just quest your way to the lower 30s with no trouble.  Yes, you will have to run on the road past ??? creatures, but just be careful.  Once you get to the next travel route on your "bird" map, you can return in the air.

To me that's one of the strengths of the WoW model.  The XP you get for the quests usually outstrips or equals the xp you get for killing the mobs.  

That takes quests in WoW to a level unachieved by say, SWG, where even the lucrative quests seemed like a grind.  In WoW they ARE the game, as opposed to "find camp, kill, repeat" being the game.  Which is alot more interesting IMO.

I dunno what all the talk is about shifting mechanics to make grouping 'more attractive'.  My experience has been that people solo because they want to. . i.e. they're not feeling social and they want to be fucking left alone.  I've never had anyone refuse a group with 'sorry, the exp bonus is insufficient'.  They refuse because they don't want to.

Is there really a large class of people who want to group with each other but just can't because of the exp calculation?

What you really want is for the world to be populated with a bunch of clever, cool, sexy people that desperately want to group with you, like a beer commercial.  There is no game mechanic that will fix that.

Did you get them to fill a questionare after they refused to group with you? How would you know then?

More frustrating than that is the groups that are doing slaying quests with two people in a camped scenario that won't invite the lone guy trying to get his. I've been completely ignored by a duo before only to watch them pull too many mobs and call for help. I emoted laying down and going to sleep as they got ripped to shreds. It was karmicly satisfying, but still stupid.

Note though, that I'm not applying this to the looting quests. When you have to get a certain number of items off drops, that is completely different and certainly more in tune with soloing. It seems like I get more invites to groups for those though than the other kind. It's just backwards in my head.

Yes, that's stupid.

The game client should flash 'You are a jackhole' on your screen in bright, pink letters if you kill a boss for a Kill The Boss quest and there are 5 people within spitting distance trying to do the same quest.

I have asked people if they wanted to group when doing a kill a boss quest and then they refuse and I go ahead and kill the boss and then they bitch. I am not the jackhole there, I gave them a chance.

I tend to have the opposite experience. I do alot of duoing with a Paladin in my guild. we'll be doing a Kill X mobs quest and see one or two other people doing it too. We'll invite them to join partly to be nice, partly to finish faster, and partly, to be blunt, so we don't have to compete for the mobs. Alot of times they refuse, then seem to get miffed when he and I split up and tackle as many mobs as possible and finish the quest while they're still out there doing it.

It's the WoW Quest mechanics themselves which make it a disincentive to group up in many cases. In WoW, if the quest is of the type "collect x items" where x > 1, a mob will only drop one such item if it drops it at all so adding people to a group doing such a quest doesn't actually speed things up. Yes you will kill things faster but you also have to collect more items to satisfy the quest for everybody in the group. Contrast this with EQ2 where everybody doing the quest in a group gets credit for the item  when it "drops" (you don't actually loot it, it's sort of a "virtual" quest item).

I am not sure if that is entirely true or not.  I know that if it is a named mob  (IE, collect the Head of Gronk the Orc) that the Head WILL drop for everyone in the group.

As to collect X quest drops (for example, collect X enchanted shackals off the Werewolf mobs in Silverpine) I am almost 100% positive that grouping has NO effect what so ever on how often the special item drops for YOU.  If it is Your drop, and another person loots the corpse, they dont even SEE  the item in the corpse.  I have grouped quite often with people doing quests like that, and i have looted a corpse, seen no quest drop, only to have my buddy right beside me loot the exact same corpse after me and recieve a quest drop.

That's why I said where x > 1.


I multi-box in MMORPGs so I see exactly what's happening in terms of quest drops in WoW. It's a little confusing in WoW cause of round robin looting but here's what's going on for the typical collect "x" (again where x > 1) quest. If the mob drops quest item and loot is set to round robin, then if the player selected to loot hasn't collected all the items they will see the corpse "sparkle" and the corpse will have quest item. If the player selected to loot has collected all the quest items, they will still see the corpse "sparkle" but the quest item will not show up on corpse (they will just see any regular non-quest drops). In this second case, other group members who haven't finished collecting the items will see the corpse "sparkle" (where they normally don't with round robin looting) and any of them can loot that one quest item (but only one).

When I multi-box in WoW I set the group loot policy to FFA, that way any of my characters can loot and I can see that the mobs are not dropping "extra" quest items when people are grouped. They only drop one if they drop one at all. I.e. if I have, say, 3 characters all try to loot a corpse with a quest item, all 3 will see the item in their loot window but once one person takes that item, the quest item will disappear from the loot window of the other two people just like it would for a non-quest item.

Again this is for x > 1 quests. For "named" quests where x = 1 then yes, all group members will see their own copy of that quest item.

The other issue with grouping is that as soon as you finish one quest, everyone has a different next quest to do and the group disbands.

In beta I found the only real grouping outside of instances was killing boss-type mobs.

You're right.  The few groups I've been in always break up after the quest.  Sometimes I don't meet these people until we're all at the place where the quest is completed.  There is no roaming about, looking for trouble, finding unusual mobs with uber loot to share, that sort of thing.  Pick up groups aren't usually very social anyway, but in WoW it's even more unsocial.  Even people in our guild only seem to get together for the elite quests.  I don't think WoW is exactly anti-social, but it definitely doesn't encourage group exploration, at least not on normal servers.  

Maybe this will change at higher levels, when the quests dry up a bit...  I don't know as I've not leveled any character past 15 in either beta or release.  Hopefully by then, there will still be interesting area's left for group exploration.   Perhaps, it's different on pvp servers... where you might group together to skirmish in contested areas or stir things up in an enemy town.  We are on an normal rp server, mostly for the lack of server issues, queues, and the more mature community... except there really isn't any community with the lack of pvp.  I don't really role play, but a pvp rp server might be the answer.

This is where I miss games like SB and UO.  Stirring up trouble was a lot of fun and definitely add an element of excitement to those games.  I'd like to try it in WoW.

Damn I can swear this community has some of the most anti-social players. Complaining about grouping in WoW...... What you want  everyone beggning your toon to join their groups as soon as you log in or something?

 And I tell you if you are a good player you get just that -  lead a few succesfull groups in a few  instances and  people will send you tells to join them  for other instances as well. -they will summon you and do all the running for you if you proven to be a worthy member (e.g. not completely retarded) .

 Any grouping for "hard" non-instance quests is not hard either -you just gotta come over your "snail in a shell" attitude and ask in a friendly manner people nearby if you can join them (or invite them yourself ,but ask first) . I mean some freaks so afraid to type a few words in chat that they spam you with invites without even asking , or run around you ,without saying a word ,hoping you read their mind and invite them(and then they complain if you  kill the boss).

 If you can't find people in area nearby ask in general chat , if no one responds just do solo quests. Get some friends ,get in a guild , don't be selfish asshole and   you won't have any grouping problems.

And ,yes , despite all that some people won't group with you ,or invite you. And  there is no need to be bitter about that  -you know they may have their own reasons , they prefer soloing , grouping with their friends ,or just don't like the look and the name of your toon .  -  the world does not turn around you ,nor it is doomed because of this.

 Its the attitude problem on YOUR part ,not WoW problem. WoW is designed perfectly for flexibility - it does not force you grouping ,nor it penalizes you for it.  There is alwasy opportunity to socialze  and at the same time  you can always do your own thing if thats what you want. yet some people complain that it is not eq/daoc like "group or die" nazi game mechanics. Freedom of choice is what WoW has ,sadly freedom and choice require at  least some form of initiative and thinking on player's part  and eq seem lobotomized those qualities from a lot of mmorpgs player base.


p.s. I am member of a well established guild on one server and soloing with alt on another , and I see no  problem grouping with either toon, except toon which I play with my guild gets a few  "giveaways" from higher level guildies.

UNPOSSIBLE!

Don't take this as a flame, BUT PLEASE LEARN COMMA SPACING. I have no problem with what you said (I actually agree with most of it).  However, I wanted to stab your post serveral times.

/agree.

On a side note:  You can powerlevel you friends.  Just follow them around and kill all the mobs they attack first.  As soon as the mob turns grey, kill it.

What is this 'turns grey'?

I had fun power-leveling a night elf with my Tauren toon on a Normal server last night.  I just followed him around and after he hit one of those owlbear bastards in Ashenvale, I nuked it.

We communicated through dance.

I was having fun with some warlocks last night , we were all soloing and had ended up camping the same boss mob on the same quest. But since we were also just hanging out having fun , not trying to finish this quest to get to another quest or anything , we didn't group up. We sat in the corners of the room and put all our pets on the boss spawn spot. We then took turns making our pets aggro , one pet per turn would be aggro , the rest passive. Once the mob turned grey , we sicced all out pets on it , never cast a spell in around an hour of hanging out shooting the breeze with those guys.

^^

It's WoW's form of encounter locking to prevent kill stealing. The first person to damage a mob will "tag" it and other non-party (non-raid?) people will see the colored bar in the mob portrait turn grey. I personally prefer the more obvious lock icon that other games use but I've gotten used to it now. Unlike those other games, however, other people can still attack a mob once it has turned grey, they just won't get any exp or be able to loot it. At first before I realized what was going on I thought WoW didn't have encounter "locking" since I was used to the FFXI / EQ2 version of it and was getting pissed at all the people attacking my mobs. Now I'm like, go right ahead, that just means I'm getting exp faster.

I would have to say a lot of this occures due to WoW being the more casual friendly mmog we have all be bitching about wanting. People will log in, do one or two quests then log out.

But if you kind of follow the quest lines, its not uncommon to do a full quest line of 5 or 6 quests some times. I pretty much only group with guildies or solo (being a warlock I can solo very well). The only time I group with none guild people is when I join up with some one to share a quest mob spawn.

It's funny that in the game that required grouping to do most fun things I hated grouping, but in a game where you aren't forced to group much at all, I enjoy grouping.

Choice beats coercion.

The nice thing about the "turning grey" deal is that jumping on someone else's foozles is more of a friendly gesture as opposed to "OMFG F U KILLSTEALER!"  So far in my experience, when one group happens over another in the middle of a big fight, the second group will go ahead and help beat down the critters.

I prefer this sort of subtle "do what you want, but you won't get xp from killstealing" system to an overt immersion-breaking "you can't hit that monster, it belongs to someone else" deal.

The "you can't hit that monster" mechanic is also a way to slow down powerleveling but Blizzard clearly intended WoW to be a fast leveling game.

Except you don't get experience points for it, so it's almost the same thing? Just better?

Maybe I'll sing a different tune eighteen months from now when I'm level sixty or whatever, but for now I say w00t for powerleveling.  Leave that "grind = game" shit for EQ.

Doing the quests regularly are a lot more interesting than powerlevelling or XP grinding. Also better experience overall, too.

Just do the quests. Dont worry about levelling because it is plenty fast. Quests take the repetitive boredom out of levelling, mostly. Not all, but mostly.

We've been telling this to Sony for years, and yet they do not understand.

Give people the choice. Encourage to group in positive manners, not in negatives (i.e. forcing).

You are thinking about it from the perspective of the person attacking an already "tagged" mob. For powerleveling I'm referring to the person who tagged it first.