f13.net

My friend is an asshole. He brought over some boxes of Krispy Kremes from out of country and introduced me to donuts. Now this is fucked up. Not only have I not eaten proper donuts before, but we don't have donut stores around in our country that I know of and our town has maybe two types of donuts around in different pastry shops, sugar coated and chocolate covered. After all those types of donuts I have tasted from those Krispy Kreme boxes I feel like a new world was introduced to me and it would be highly egoistic to not share this goodness with my fellow countrymen so I started doing some research of possibly opening a donut-sorta place here in our town (Kristiansand, Norway). Being a business major and a 2D/3D artist the business and concept development parts are straight forward to me, but I know fuckall about donuts or how to make em. This lead me to a series of questions and many will probably follow :

1) Anyone has any experience working from a pastry / donut shop ? Anything similar, bakery even, and what are areas I should be focusing on ?

2) I did some research about donut fryers, glazers, depositors etc, anyone know anything about these ? What is good, what to avoid ?

3) At what location are donut / pastry stores "convenient" (not in my town, I know that, I mean more like when do you feel like picking up a donut ? While waiting for something ? After other food ?)

4) What else do they sell at donut shops and what should I focus on ?

5) Catering an option, maybe catering to businesses etc ?

6) Anything else that you might want to add.

EDIT :

7) Your favorite donuts ?

I'm just doing some research currently, if this shows to be profitable, solid, well planned and scheduled out I have a few private investors along with several national organizations in Norway (Cultiva, EVA - Innovasjon Norge) as options for funding alongside with private investments. I don't want to go knee deep in loans (keeping risk at minimum) even though it is an option if needed. My mother is also the head waiter at the Choice Quality Hotel here and has several contacts who she could introduce me to also for some tips in this area alongside with the one she is giving me.

Thanks for your time!

Dunkin' Donuts > Krispy Kreme

Most of the donuts shops around here are on the corner (or in a gas station) or smack dab in the middle of a group of office buildings.

That's really all i have to add.

That's the impression I got that it is easily accessible (eg - right by the walking street) and not in the back of some mall. Location is extremely important here in our town, as well as everywhere really, considering our town is square shaped (might look something like 10x10) and there is only a few walking streets where such a place would be practical. Image here :

http://www.planetware.com/i/map/N/kristiansand-map.jpg

EDIT : Added question number 7.

Coffee. There are a couple donut places here in town, the busiest one has donuts, coffee, and places to sit. That's it. It's always busy. Most of the others have sammiches and such too.

I find Krispy Kreme to be terrible, I like old fashioned donuts. Just plain, non-greasy, good with a big cup of coffee or 3.

There's multiple kinds of donuts.  Cake batter and dough batter are the two most familiar. I think Krispy Kreme uses a dough batter, while Dunkin is primarily Cake batter.

They're typically a breakfast food over here, so I stop by the shop or the grocery on the way to work if I want one.   The bigger chains have started offering sandwiches and stuff to broaden their market and boost sales revenue in the afternoons.  Yes, coffee is a 'must' for donut shops, though I prefer mine with milk as I can't stand coffee. 

Location I'd probably pick somewhere between the bus station and the hospital on that map.  Not sure how doctor's shifts work over there, but I know over here there's always a few small places that do well around the campuses because the hospital cafeteria gets routine or isn't open long enough.

As to favorites? Cinnamon Twists (dough fried and twisted to an 8 covered in cinnamon sugar.)  Berliners w/ icing (puffy balls injected with a filling, typically creme, icing or jelly) and plain old glazed.  Yummy.

Awesome stuff. So early opening is a must, just like bakeries. I'll check the various batters and how they are used also. Coffee and places to sit along with a nice atmosphere is a must it seems.

To understand how people "experience" donuts in a donut shop in the US, at least, you should get on a site like yelp.com and read donut shop reviews.

You can also try to track down the Alton Brown "Circle of Life" episode of Good Eats if you want to try and make donuts at home to test recipes.

The two standard kinds are "cake" and "raised" as in yeast-raised. Krispy Kreme and pretty much all donuts shops have both types here in the US.

Thanks a lot Trippy, checking out that stuff now.

Krispy Kreme made a sorry attempt to introduce their disgusting glaze blobs in Canada and eventually had to shut every storefront down except for a few franchised ones. You just can't compete with Tim Hortons up here. Oh god, Boston Creme.

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/197/441137363_6a138ce8a2.jpg)

You'll want to try to have as many open business hours as possible, as sometimes people want donuts/breakfast-type food at odd times.

Of course, serve with coffee drinks and such. Also, Bagels. While I love me some donuts, I usually opt for a simple toasted bagel and cream cheese.


Also, have you considered trying to contact some of the bigger donut businesses (dunkin, KK, etc?) and talking about franchises? That might take a lot of the guesswork out of the equation for you.

Krispy Kreme used to require its franchises to purchase all of their ingredients from them.  This enabled them to control the quality but it also added quite a bit of lag to shipping.

KK went on a big expansion a few years ago and they were forced to abandon a lot of the newer locations.  So, I'm not sure that Krispy Kreme will sell a foreign franchise. 

Didn't realize you were looking to open a shop. I'm being lazy today, but I'll answer your question

3) At what location are donut / pastry stores "convenient" (not in my town, I know that, I mean more like when do you feel like picking up a donut ? While waiting for something ? After other food ?)
The most convenient for me has been the Tim Horton's (donut shop) in my school. $2 in your pocket? Coffee and a donut right there. Good for when I sleep in and skip breakfast. I usually tend to buy donuts opposed to bagels, mostly because I was eating a deadly amount of cream cheese. Anyway, I usually eat donuts to hold me off till I go out for lunch or dinner with friends.

4) What else do they sell at donut shops and what should I focus on ?
GOOD Coffee/other beverages, Bagels, donut centers (called TimBits up here), sandwiches, soup. You should probably focus on the basics of Coffee and donuts, then branch off from there. It really depends on what the culture dictates.

5) Catering an option, maybe catering to businesses etc ?
It depends, have you ever been to a donut/coffee shop? If you're going for an authentic donut shop where you just make pastry's and donuts, then yes.

6) Anything else that you might want to add.
Look at successful coffee shops and read how they started. I know the most successful one in Canada started with coffee and like 3 types of donuts or something ridiculous like that and now they pull in about $2 billion a year.

EDIT :

7) Your favorite donuts? Boston Creme

I have absolutely no experience in this whatsoever so my comment is worthless, but this being f13, it won't stop me:

Do not try to replicate an 'american' experience in Norway. What you should do is take the main product and 'norwegianize' it to fit the local comfort level. Embedd the product within standard and familiar other things. That's the way in.

While it tends to be a breakfast with coffee sort of thing here, you might try some polling and taste tests if at all possible.  You're essentially trying to introduce something that is not part of the regular culture on top of trying to figure out the predominate taste preferences of your locality.  The Coke/Pepsi split makes a huge difference in regional sales.

See if there is a preference for dough versus cake batter, and different styles.  I love Dunkin' Donuts and something from the grocery bakery, but cannot stand the taste of a Kripy Kreme.  You may find it beneficial to do both.  Or maybe not... you'll have to figure that out being the business major.  You could also introduce things like beingets and sopapias, which are similar, but might help add some variety.

Be flexible enough to realize that even if there is a market, you want to make it fit the local tastes.

Donuts are freakin bad for you. Don't introduce them to Norway.  :grin:

It's ok.  People in Norway actually get out of their house and exercise.  They can handle donuts. 

This is one of the challenges. Norwegians and especially Norwegian youth are extremely occupied with health and fitness, so I must have this in mind. Using ingredients that produces the absolute lowest amount of fat and show nutrition facts through several means and have some healthy jucies on the side alongside some healthy food.

Heh. Dude you can't make donuts in any kind of healthy way. Not tasty ones at least. Go all or nothing. It's not that the brand or quality of ingredients are necessarily bad in typical donuts - It's just that they consist of nothing but the worst stuff, period (and why they taste so good).. high carb breads and sugar, and fat. Too much of those, combined as they are, are bad for you period. Most donuts are about 300 calories. Anything with cream or jelly will be about 350 calories. Just eating two is fucking yourself. To illustrate: It would take about 30 minutes of walking to work off those 300 or 400 calories. An hour for 2, and so forth.

I hate to come off like a health nut. I'm just saying.. This shit is nasty.

That said, anything chocolate and custard filled.  :grin:

It's only because they haven't figured out a way to make walking out of your house and exercising really really expensive!   :raspberry:  I bet if you make donuts salty as hell, and hard enough to beat your wife with, you'll make a fortune!  Strangely, Norway is reported to have a low rate of alcohol consumption and yet every male from my Norwegian family is an alcoholic.  Of course, it's heavily restricted and taxed so I suspect most make their own.  Thank god someone gave them potatoes!  Another tactic would be spreading the rumour that Swedes claim to make the best donuts in the world. 

All kidding aside, I suppose you could make them "healthier" by baking them instead of deep-frying but they won't be the same. Still might be good, though.  But all that sugar, inside and out!  How do you get around that?  I sometimes sweeten things with apple juice, but I'm not sure that would work with donuts.  Rosette and Fattigmann cookies are popular and they don't have much sugar.  Well, at least on the inside.  Having said that, I don't know anyone who actually eats them other than during the holidays.  And they're small.  As someone who can not tolerate much sugar, I'd love to see what people come up with. 

By the way - every now and then Righ gets a couple of donuts from Wegmans and I love their bagels!

NO. DUNKIN DONUTS ARE CAKE. THEY ARE NOT DONUTS.

You could only use organic ingredients and advertise as being an organic donut store to get over the stigma associated with donuts.

Maybe locally sourced ingredients or some such nonsense too.  Lingonberry or cloudberry would be easy choices. Smoked salmon donuts?  Crunchy dried codfish sprinkles on a crueler?  

As for coffee, you could import coffees from around the world.  Oddly enough, the highest ranked coffee currently in the US is also the least expensive.  http://www.eightoclock.com/ (http://www.eightoclock.com/)

A professional espresso machine is a must have.

Tea lattes seem to be the new thing here in North America.  It is a brewed tea with frothed milk poured on top.  People seem to think it is more healthy than coffee.  Meh.

Oh, and Krispey Kreme beats the shit out of the frozen batter crap they serve at Tim Hortons you fucking Canadian bitch.

Good stuff from all of you, thanks a lot. I think I have to go all inn on the donuts and exclude the health part on them with the exception of nutrition facts and maybe have some healthy / organic / veggie donuts as a sidething instead. Coffee and great tasting coffee is an absolute must, people are nutters about coffee over here and there aren't many places that offer alternatives / food / quick snacks in their coffee shops besides coffee so donuts along with other pastry would be full of win. My mother is also a barista and knows tons about coffee, I'll have to hear what she has to say.

Unfortunately, bagels have even more calories than donuts! :-P No sugars, of course.. But it's still packed in carbs. Put some cream cheese on, and you just added a 100 calories (nutrition facts say 436 cal for a cream chesse bagel). Muffins, especially the big ones that you only see these days are all the way up in 600 range.

It's like Attack of the Killer Tomatoes basically.. Except pastries.

(http://www.clisham.com-a.googlepages.com/Picture2.png)

Oban, do you have a consumer reports account?

*Googling the shit out of the brands* How is that Eight O'Clock ?

On a sidenote, I believe an Americano is like 20 cal. And it's fucking delish. I believe you were the one told me about it too. Kudos

[edit] Ah shit, i read those caffiene levels as calories... which confused me at first. I was wondering wtf they were putting in those coffees. Heh. Still though, espresso drinks are better anyhow.

Yes.

Ow, post this too please. Where do you find this stuff by the way ?

Yeah, they named off one of them to me the other day, and I decided to try it. London Fog Vanilla Latte or some stupid shit. I forgot what tea it was based on, but it tasted and smelled like fruitloops.

I  :heart: the new thread title. I shall not disappoint!

They have changed many lives. You are not unique.


OK, I'll stop. Enjoy.



That tea.. I think it was mixed with Apple too. Probably where the fruitloops taste came out.

best donuts ever. and "healthy" (http://www.mightyo.com/)

First of all, those are cake.

Second of all, they're still terrible for you.

My view on donuts is the following:

1. Cake is not a base for a fucking donut. Be a purist or go buy a fucking cake and grab a slice.
2. You might as well eat one with 480 or 500 calories for the extra awesome flavor than "get by" with one that has 380 or 400 calories.
3. DONUTS ARE NOT FUCKING CAKE.

To be fair, the standard, ho hum krispy kreme glazed donut is 200 cal. Which isn't that bad, I guess... Funnily though, they came out with a wheat one, and it's 180. Just a 20 cal drop.

For some reason, the dunkin donuts wheat glazed is 310. Might as well splurge.

Yes, but you don't eat just 1 Krispy Kreme. Ever.

If Dunkin Donuts actually made donuts that would be an option. But they don't. They make very small round cakes.

I think photek should try introducing chimichangas in Norway. About the same calories, but with some protein. Better as a breakfast than "cake" at least.

Personally I think that'd be the shit. Some dude walks in to work with a box full of chimichangas.. Fuck yeah.

Perhaps, but at least they don't taste like ass.

Donuts can't be THAT fattening.  They have a hole!

Hot Krispy Kreme >> all others.  However, being in a heathen portion of the US I think that tonight I will pick up a boston creme and a cup of decaf from Dunkin on my evening walk.

The way to have a successful donut shop is to have an exhaust fan that makes the entire street outside smell like frying dough.

Nothing compares to Voodoo Doughnuts in Portland.

Optimal location : gaz station near an highway, with lots of office tower nearby and a police station...

Alternative revenue : bagel/donuts boy.  You deliver donuts and bagels every morning to offices for a set amount of money.  It's a nice sideline for a startup.  Mix it up with fresh coffee for additional $$$.  You can also try to get some shelves space at local grocery stores for your leftover.

It's a nice business model but it's overcrowded here in North America.  It could be very profitable if you have no competitor.

I've never been to a Dunkin' Donuts but looking at their crappy Website it looks like they have both cake and raised donuts, like pretty much ever other donut store in the US.

http://www.dunkindonuts.com/aboutus/nutrition/ProductList.aspx?category=Donuts

It might help to become an office staple. Offer a deal which is a bunch of donuts or donut holes along with a big box of coffee and get people to bring them to work in the morning for their team or for meetings.

I know personallly most of the donut buying I've done has been to bring in to work when I had a meeting scheduled.

You are wrong. I side entirely with the fucking Canadian bitch.

For some reason here in California the best donuts come from small independent shops owned and staffed by orientals. They make the best but they do not not seem to actually eat their donuts. In fact near my home there was one that was in the same location for years and then a Krispy Kreme opened up 50 yards away, 2 years later the KK is boarded up and the independent shop is still there. 

It helps for a donut shop to be in a area that attracts people on the path of their morning commute (school, work and the like).

OK, I'm going to just throw out random thoughts, because this thread is all over the place, to address concerns. Also, I'm very drunk right now.

ALSO, WTF is up with all the Krispy Kream hate? Krispey Kreme is amazing, and blew away all the other cake/homemade donutes I'd been eating all my life since I was a kid. Seriously, Krispy Kream is delicious. Fuck you all.

1.)  OVER HERE, donutes are eaten at odd hours as a snack. As many people mentioned, usually with coffee. So the times you drink coffee are going to be your best. The morning/breakfest crowd, and the late night work/student/cop crowd. In college we use to make Krispy Kreme runs at midnight (if you can set up shop for late night operation near a college, you'll bring in the bucks. Hurray for drunk people). Other local places were open way late at night as well. Sugar works much the same way as coffee does in keeping people awake and energetic, so it applies to the same crowd. Of course, you know Norweigen culture best, so maybe its different over there. In America, eating solid sugar as an meal is acceptable for breakfast. If your a college student, eating or drinking ANYTHING at ANYTIME of the day is A OK.

2.)  Listen to, and scorn, Engles.  He's right, you should try to make some novelty 'local' style donutes (like lingdon berry donutes.  I'd eat that, and if IKEA has taught me anything, so would you fuckers).  It will bring curious people in.  But also go the other direction, and make the American/whatever Sugar coated chocolate frosted bomb with sprinkles donut.  Sell that shit to them.  Over here (and from my experience, abroad as well) people jump at what they think are legitimate strange/gimmick foods from abroad.  People WANT to try new things from out of town.  Make sure it taste good, and you have customers for life.

3.)  On Health.  OK, I live in Berkeley, which is Hippie/Vegan capital of the world.  While I love to make fun of Vegans, I've actually become friends with a few, and they have had me try vegan donutes/pastries that actually taste GREAT.  If they can make a fucking Vegan donut that taste edible, you can deffinatly make a somewhat healthy donute taste great.  Just look up the recipes (there are many cookbooks and online) and you can make a healthy('ish) organic donut that doesn't taste like crap.  And advertise it!  People will come in to try it out of curiosity (like all those health nuts you mentioned).  That will bring people in, and if its good, they'll keep coming back.  But make sure you take it the other way.  As mentioned above, sell the American Heart Attack covered in Fried Lard Donut, and you'll bring in all sorts of curious people as well.  It might be curiosity, it might be from a dare, it might be from alcohol, but they'll try it.  If it taste good (and if your not holding back, there's no reason it shouldn't taste like a deep fried orgasim) they'll come back.  Whether they want to or not.  So more donuts sold!

4.)  As mentioned before, also sell Donut Holes (thats what we call them in California).  Good take away snack, popular with children, also brings in the novalty factor.

5.)  YES, cater.  Advertise to all the buisness's you can that you can have box's upon box's of donuts ready for them if they call in.  Or even delivered if you want to provide that service.  Many offices in America (mine included) will have somebody pick up a box of donuts for the whole office on their way to work in the morning on some day of the week.  This is somewhat tradition, and if its not in Norway, you can make it one there as well  :awesome_for_real:.  As mentioned before, location will be of huge importance.  You need to either be near where a ton of working 9-5 type people will be withing easy access distance in the morning, or at least at a place where a lot of the late night/student/drunk partier crowd people will be able to get to.  Big bonus if you can get both with the same location.

6.)  My favorite donut is the maple donut and/or bar. 

Uh, I guess that's all I can think of for now.  In short, get lots of specialty donuts you can advertise to bring people in (The Health donut!  The Norweigan Lingdon Berry Donut!  The American Death Donut!), and put yourself in a very accessible location.

Oh yeah, and actually make addictivly great tasting donuts.

I went from Lorekeep's thread to this.  Gonna go watch some TV now. 

Krispy Kreme donuts are disgusting. They have a great brand name that makes them sound fluffy and perfect, but their donuts are tasteless lumps of lard that weigh on your gut like lead.

Just on the note of KK and foreign outlets, they opened in the UK about 3 (I think) years ago with a bakery shop in Harrods (one that serves them hot). They've expanded mostly around London with a few other locations (2 in Manchester) I think there's around 20-30 KKs in the UK now so there may be scope for getting them to franchise to Norway. As far as I can tell for the UK market they've pretty much done what they did in the US and it's taken off based on people being curious and offices seeing them as a cheap thing to buy in bulk (with the ridiculous deals for one or two dozen donuts). When they opened up first they were literally giving away half dozen boxes to people for a week or two that seemed to generate a huge amount of interest and made sure people were seeing KK boxes on the Tube and buses. It was probably cheaper than actually pumping advertising out everywhere and got a lot of people to try them.

Personally I don't understand the notion that you never eat only one KK. Maybe two but they're just too sweet and heavy to have more than that without spending the rest of the day feeling sick with horrible indigestion, and I'm just thinking of the regular glazed ones here since the filled ones taste like artificial preservatives wrapped in fat and sugar. The glazed ones (and maple glazed moreso) are pretty ok though for the occasional snack.

For Photek in particular, is there much of a tourist element to your town or are you going to be relying entirely on Norwegians? I agree with some other advice that your main focus should be reproducing American style doughnuts but I think having a couple of Norwegian aimed and maybe 'healthy' doughnuts to get other people in. Best advice generally though is doing quite a bit of customer research, get some recipes together and lure people into filling out surveys with free bits of doughnut. Find out whether Norwegians actually think US style doughnuts taste good or not or if they go wild for localized versions of them. Go with what will sell.

Okay now I have some more time to properly devote to this topic. :drill:


First here are some YouTube links for you:

Anthony Bourdain No Reservations - Pacific NW - Voodoo Doughnut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TZ7BVWEXqA

Good Eats - Circle of Life - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLACCFjhyBE

Good Eats - Circle of Life - Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP8L9FXVNq4

If you saw our thread on bacon and the maple bacon donut, that's Voodoo Doughnut. You can search on "Voodoo Doughnut" on YouTube for more clips about them.


Here in the US donuts are part of our culture so there's a wide variety in the way donut shops are implemented around here but many of these ways may not work well over in Norway. E.g. donuts shops are scattered over just about every type of retail food location you can think of here and the stores themselves come in all different shapes and sizes including many where you just order your donuts and leave -- i.e. there's no place to sit and eat them (my childhood donut shop was like this). As others have mentioned some are open very late or even 24 hours, which is sort of an American staple -- i.e. they are the stereotypical place police on the late night/early morning shift visit for their coffee and caloric needs and also for students studying late at night.

My suggestion as somebody who has never opened a retail food store before is to *not* try and duplicate the US donut buying experience "as is" but instead find a way to introduce them into your city via existing retail food distribution mechanisms. E.g. instead of opening up a "donut shop" open up, say, a coffee bar (assuming you have those in your city) that also sells donuts. That will reduce your risk substantially as you'll been able to generate a revenue stream from selling things you know people will buy while you work to introduce people to the taste of donuts.

Since you are a business major you might even want to do research and write a paper about how some other foreign food(s) has gotten introduced into Norway and that may give you better ideas.

Despite your concerns about Norwegian youth being "health-conscious" that's the demographic I would target at first so you should try to open up a store that will get good foot traffic from them (e.g. near a college or university). Donuts here in the US are eaten by everybody including adults but that's cause we grew up eating donuts. Younger people are much more likely to latch onto new foods than us old fogeys which is why I'm suggesting you target them since donuts, like ice cream and other sweet treats, are tailored made to tempt young people.

Many donut shops here in the US do a lot of business selling to businesses either directly (as in phone orders and delivery) or indirectly (workers buying donuts in the morning and taking them into work) but again that's because we grew up eating donuts. Trying to do that initially in Norway where people haven't developed a taste for them is a risky proposition. It's better to get young people hooked on them first and then they can introduce them into the workplace (for those that are working) via the indirect method.

If opening a retail location is too capital intensive for you to start you could try the business meal catering variation on the coffee bar suggestion above by catering simple business meals and offering donuts as a dessert option (you can even just give them away at first) but that'll be harder to target the youth demographic that way.


Re: Krispy Kreme donuts

Krispy Kreme raised donuts are a different "style" than your typical raised donut, at least here in California, which is why many people dislike them. They don't look and taste like the raised donuts they grew up eating. KK's are much smaller, both in diameter and height, compared to normal raised donuts. This is why many people can't eat just one and why the nutritional information is misleading (it's like back in the days here in the US when the "serving size" of a can of soda was "2" instead of "1" so that the calories looked lower) -- they are fricking puny donuts. I'm assuming KK did this so their raised donuts and their cake donuts are the same size so their packaging and automation can be uniform. It's also I'm assuming why donuts that are normally "bars" in shape are round in the KK versions. Their raised donuts also have a different texture than normal raised donuts which is usually much more "fluffy" and airy inside where KK's a little denser and more moist. Even the KK sugar glaze is different being more "pliable" than the "flaky" style of sugar glaze.

Since most Norwegians probably don't have any preconceived notions about what a raised donut should look or taste like you are free to choose whichever style of raised donut you think is better for your market. Just be aware that you'll have to experiment with recipes to find one that matches the style you want to reproduce.


Re: "healthy" donuts

Donuts are never going to be health-food but you should probably look into ways of minimizing or cutting out entirely things like trans fats and saturated fats. Donuts here in the US have for a while now been made with trans fats though some places are switching to trans-fat free oils/fats. In the really old days they used to be fried in lard. However beware of claims of "zero trans fat" donuts like Krispy Kreme makes. Their donuts are not actually trans-fat free but thanks to our fucked up food labeling laws if a "single portion" has less than 0.5g of trans fat they are allowed to label it as "0g" trans fat. Trans-fat free donuts supposedly don't taste the same (e.g. they tend to absorb more oil) but again since your target market doesn't know the difference you don't need to try and exactly reproduce the taste most of us in the US grew up eating. Also note that non-trans fat oils aren't necessarily better for you. E.g. "fractionated" oils are pure saturated fat in which case you might was well just fry the suckers in lard  :awesome_for_real:



Making donuts well is actually not an easy thing. If you read the history about Voodoo Doughnut (http://voodoodoughnut.com/about.php) on their site you'll see that the owners went to train with some "donut masters" before they had the skill to make their own donuts. You might want to consider coming over here for your Summer break and working in a donut store learning how to make donuts properly if you are serious about doing this.

All I know is that I discovered Krispy Kreme donuts in North Carolina when I lived there, then 6 months after my return to England they opened a concession in Harrods. Now Krispy Kreme is raping face in England.

The next big thing is cupcakes though, if you want to get ahead of the trend.

e.g. Hummingbird (http://www.hummingbirdbakery.com/flash.html)

There must have been a movie with cupcakes in them, the whole cupcake only bakery thing seems like such a fad.

Hummingbird also do loads of cakes, they have large (I guess authentic American style) serving sizes. They are also horrible. The cakes and muffins are really dry and very, very sweet and covered in inches of ridiculously sweet icing. They are also (at least the one near my parents in London) very popular, queues out onto the street at lunchtime popular. I will never understand people and food.

You should actually look into the Tim Horton's versus Krispy Kreme fight here in Canada. Krispy Kreme lost not because of the quality of the doughnuts themselves, but because in Canada, doughnuts don't actually sell that well any more. These days, Tim's makes its money from soup, sandwiches and bagels.

(By the way, the taste issue between Tim's and KK is largely one of what you're used to. Canadians find KK overly sweet, because we grew up with less sugared doughnuts. From what I gather, Tim's hasn't been doing so well in the US, so it seems to be purely subjective.)

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks Krispy Kreme tastes like crap.  'Cake' or not, I'll take Dunkin' Donuts over Krispy Kreme any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

imho the best donuts in the world are Cruller's.  And dunken donuts makes one of the best. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruller)

I'll now link one of my favorite movies.
Blood and Donuts (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112527/)
And an original donut recipe from WWI http://www.sacollectables.com/donut.html (http://www.sacollectables.com/donut.html)

At least in Northern Ontario in the late 70s/early 80s, the donut shop served a analogous position to the diner in the US.

Those are damned good. Finally got a chance to try Top Pot Donuts (http://www.toppotdoughnuts.com/). Starbucks has been carrying their old fashioneds for a year or two, but I hadn't tried any of their other varieties until last week. I got stuck going to work on Saturday for a couple of hours, so I took the opportunity to hit the Bellevue location (usually WAY too crowded to hit during the week when I am trying to get to work). Picked out a dozen and brought them home to my wife, and we had a delicious and fattening weekend. Man they are good.

Edit- they have even been called America's Top Donut (http://cityguide.aol.com/newyork/americas-top-donuts?page=12).

Oh yeah, the Starbucks donuts are not bad.

Teleku : vegan donuts?   :uhrr:

I've seen some picture of a bacon donuts but the vast majority of donuts aren't made with meat...

Or is it about no milk, no egg and all organic?

Timmy's is an industry unto itself up here. There are places in my town that I can stand and see two different Tim Horton's stores. They are to Canada what Starbucks is to Seattle.

Timmy's business model is simple - donuts - both cake and traditional - other breakfast food like bagels and biscuits, good sandwiches and soups for lunch, and most important - good, affordable coffee.

They don't charge Starbucks prices - they give you good fresh coffee, with 18% cream in it to hook you. They locate near businesses to get the lunch crowd, and they are open really early to get the morning cofee crowd.

No eggs and milk is the key. Cake donut dough typically has both.

And some of them even have all-night drive-throughs for kids and/or drunkards (on foot, natch).

Having grown up with Dunkin' Donuts, I prefer their less-sweet basic doughnuts to Krispy Kremes; I find the latter far too sugary and heavy. The Tim's doughnut I had while in Canada last year was at least as good as Dunkin' Donuts, and possibly even less sweet, although it's been years since I've had a doughnut from Dunkin'.

There is a place around here that supplies equipment for a good amount of shops and has a great list of equipment to look at. This same place runs what is called Swiss Maid Bakery (http://www.bakery.com/stores/swissmaid/). That link is to their area on Bakery.com, which they run. Point of that link is they give a few summaries and ideas of what the items are generally used for, and a lot of products some people might not even think about mentioning in a store like this.

The best place for donuts I've ever been to is the one in my town, it's called Country Donuts (http://countrydonuts.net/index.htm), take a look at how simple their menu is, and they are normally busy as hell.

To add:
-Have fun with it.
-Someone said to try and localize a bit, this I agree with.
-Friendly, eventually personalized service. This is a no brainer, but a lot of companies are losing this factor lately. There are regulars for coffee/donut places, and the best service I've ever had in any place (bars/local diners especially) that I've been a regular at, is when I have my drink sitting there on the first walk by from the employee.

Favorites:
At Country Donuts, it would easily be the blueberry or devil's food for cake style, and Boston creme for raised style. Any other donut from anywhere else is some random donut and nothing that great after having this place available to me for so long.

I first had KK in California (despite spending around 3 months in the place I don't remember ever having real donuts). What they have in the UK tastes practically the same, like unhealthy shit.

I can't remember when KK first came out in the UK (I might not have been here) but what they are doing to increase their market penetration is selling their donuts at supermarkets and their small 'local' versions (they sell them in Tesco).

This is kind of funny b/c for the 4+ years i spent in SoCal it felt like a burger and/or donut shop was every 50 feet or so.  We used to crack jokes about all these health nut Callies and their obesions with donuts and burgers.

My advice on opening a food service business: Don't. It is a very tough business with small margins. Just don't.

If In-n-Out started to sell donuts, my heart would be so fucked.

This. If you're serious, you must come to Canada for research. There is no donut but the Tim Horton donut. Although they have fallen in quality from their legendary past they are still top shelf.


You are wrong. That is all. (And not all Timmy's use the frozen crap anymore, they had a severe backlash).

Just think, you could dip them in one of those vanilla shakes.

I realised California was a bad place as soon as I found out what you could really order at In-N-Out.

Are you one of those guys who buys a 20x20? Or, god forbid, the 100x100?  :ye_gods:

Negative. The only time a Krispy Kreme donuts is good is right out the oven, meaning 99.9.5% of the time, they suck.  :grin:

I'm keeping this thread as a memento for the coming years when many of us are out of work and hungry, and our kids don't know what a donut is.

It takes almost nothing to make a doughnut.  Flower, egg, yeast, water and some oil.  When everyone is out of work and hungry they'll all be eating doughnuts.

Doughnuts are basically fancy fried dough, which used to be a staple food during the Great Depression. Hell, it was even in The Grapes of Wrath.

I wish. I thought I was a big eater before I came to America. A double double animal with fries ANIMAL style is about as far as I'd ever go (too young for heart failure).

I felt emasculated in the US eating food, 'specially that time I shared a single burger from jack in the box with my brother (fuck those things are nasty). Or ordering a salad and not being able to finish it.

Back on track: what sells well in the US sure as hell doesn't mean it'll sell well anywhere else. Donuts are a huge risk.

Apparently Norwegians like large donuts with icing.

You forgot the entire sugar cane crop that tends to be added to each donut. Actually I've got the store brand name for this thread: Depression Donuts. They consist of flower, egg, yeast, water and some oil. And that's all you can have on your donut.

If we're out of work and hungry, we won't have the internet to show our kids this thread.

I'm printing it on a donut.

I'll actually have to second him on this somewhat.  My brother in law is a chef and has been working at restaurants since he was 15.  Its a cut throat business, and the only way it will survive is if you, the owner, are always on top of things.  As he mentioned, their are very narrow margins, so its easy to go into unrecoverable debt if something goes wrong, or the economy has a bad spell.  Now, what your proposing is much less complex than a full restaurant, so there are fewer variables, but you'll still have to work your ass off to keep on top of the accounting shit, the staff, business/legal paperwork, etc.

One thing you might want to consider, starting out, is to actually not have a store front.  Get the equipment you need and set up a kitchen to use somewhere to start creating your donuts.  Then make deals with as many buisness's as you can to set up racks in markets all over the place (as people mentioned, this is something Krispy Kreme does to great effect).  Also maybe do deliveries for buisness's/parties who call orders in.  This will allow you to perfect your donuts and see what people like, while keeping your opportunity cost fairly low (so if you do go bust, you don't lose as much).  If business is great, and people love your donuts, then open up a store.  There are actually quite a few bakeries I know of that do this.  They make the product, and let pre-established stores do the selling.

But again, Norway is a different business environment from America, so you'd know best if that's even possible.  But something to consider.

And Yes Aez, your confusing Vegan with Vegetarian.  Vegan products can't contain any product that came from an animal at all.  So yes, no milk, eggs, lard, etc.

In this case, being Vegan doesn't necessarily make a donut healthier. It isn't the milk and eggs that make it bad. It's just that it's carb city, whatwith all of the sugar and flour. Nothing wrong with them occassionally, but the way people don't move enough, and how they're small enough to tempt someone into eating multiple portions, all adds up as a recipe for a fat ass.

Donuts? What's all the fuss about?

*eats a slice of bread with Norwegian brown cheese on and is happy with that*

Why would you people discourage him from spreading donuty goodness to other parts of the world? That's just wrong.

He could become the Donut King of Scandinavia or even all of Europe! And when that happens I'm sure he'll remember us little people that gave him encouragement back in the day :awesome_for_real:

I'm 1/8 norwegian. If that. I barely care. The rest of the Scandi blood is Danish. So perhaps I just want to see Danishes remain the Scandi people's pastry.

They make something in Scandinavia, maybe Sweden, that is kind of like a doughnut but it has cold mash in it.  I forget what it's named.  If no one knows the name of it, then this is a useless post.  Sorry. 

So just replace the 'cold mash' with yummy 'Boston cream'.  :grin:

Thank you for making my post less useless!  (http://www.mommiescamelot.com/forum/images/smilies/iloveusign.gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Fkaqcd9SA

You need a Krispy Kreme.

Honestly, come to America. Start in New York and track a trail to Chicago stopping in as many of the rust belt cities as you can to sample the donuts. Cross the waters to Toronto while you are at it to get the Canadian crack. Once you hit Chicago, grab a plane to the West Coast and make a trail from CA to CA (..nada to ..lifornia). Literally, Vancouver to San Diego. Again, eat donuts, especially all the little Asian joints here in SoCal.

Once that is done you will either be dead due to a shit diet, or you will totally grok donuts and know that you can take your country by storm. It won't be cheap, but it's an investment in learning donuts ninja style so you can make donuts awesome.

Eat Krispy Kreme, but only once. It's over rated sugar loafs. You need to understand the magic of why it's good (only when hot and fresh), but also understand why it's not good (eating at many real donut shops should do that).

Just looked it up and: do you really call this
(http://www.abzonline.de/news/pages/pics/show/200_008_122083_krapfen.jpg)
a "Bismarck" ?

Anyway, this is mostly what donuts you get in a McD or a BK taste like in the old world. Or better, like that left alone for a day. I always find myself drooling when someone in an American film/series eats donuts. I especially hate Dexter for this. Although I hate that series even more for the Seafood they always show off...

To add something to the topic- I guess it's safe to say that Donuts with icing and the little sprinkles are the most sought after in europe. So go from there :)

Thanks a lot for all the links and words of wisdom, I've done quite some extensive research the last days including tasting several types of donuts in Copenhagen (Denmark) which were great. I also got tons of brochures, books and material on everything from donut equipment to how to make it in the food industry, which is a tough nut. Luckily here in my town people love new concepts and are actually willing to try and we have TONS of festivals, happenings and events starting May and lasting all the way to September (throughout the summer) which is a perfect timing for me to get started and get a huge kick-start. And I have to agree, old fashioned donuts are full of win.

if you open a donut shop and do Festivals, you should also do funnel cakes...mmmmmmm

Just remember that the key to a successful donut shop is habitual repeat business. You want the people that stop somewhere for their morning coffee and a snack every day on the way to work, to stop at your place.

Yeah, environment is key for in-store customers, have wireless, etc. But also make sure you have a takeaway counter for folks on their way to work or whatever.

Nix the wireless. Doughnut shops don't make enough revenue per sale to justify people hanging out for any longer than it takes them to slurp down a coffee.

Seconded.

Every local business would disagree. It's not about each sale, it's about creating a hangout. Repeat business. People get used to meeting there, to stopping by to do work, they're buying your product every day. The only place I would agree is if you're in a major metro and there's not enough seats to accommodate the patronage...and I'd still say lease a bigger space.

Wireless is a cheap and easy way to enhance repeat business and word of mouth, and everyplace here charges extra for it.

Ok, someone has to give photek the title 'The Donut Guy'.  :grin:

Yngwie don't like fuckin' donuts. (http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=1398)

haha

I just did some research on the places you told me and there is several various donut shops in those areas, many of them have some great pics up on their site and some even offer recipes to "try-at-home". Pretty rad. I'd love a coast to coast trip in the US just eating lots of pastry  :heart:

This is 100% wrong. In a small margin business, the key is turnover. It's butts through the door, not butts in the seats for two hours. People aren't going to eat a donut, surf for 30 minutes and then eat another donut. Your profit is someone coming in and ordering 2 dozen for their office. The reason you see wi-fi in places is because it is a marginal benefit over similarly positioned competitors. That isn't a problem for a market break-in enterprise.

I would second the notion of not even having a retail location. Go direct-sale with a small overhead production center and delivery plus wholesale to branded retail outlets (i.e. you have a Photek's Donuts case in an existing location). Much lower up-front and ongoing expenses. If you become a market leader you can then open up a retail outlet.

My nonna used to make savoury donuts for us when we were kids. It was awesome, we used to love going up to visit them because they'd often be ready for eating just after we arrived.

I've never had a big thing for sweet donuts.

If someone doens't like the 'hang out' feel of your place, you are entirely doomed. Its called the 'third place factor' (not home or work), and has the same role in providing customer stickiness as it does in pubs & bars. If a cafe doesn't have it, people will just go to Starbucks instead. Even though you're 100% right that its the turn around that makes one of these shops survive in the short term, without the untangible 'this place is rad I'mma gonna hang out' factor, the shop will suffer a slow death.

Abagrado is giving low investment, low risk advice. He's also right, especially about avoiding retail completely for now.
Seriously, some of the suggestions here would bankrupt the chap before he even started.  :oh_i_see:

Ab, that might work for big chains, I dunno. I know my town has been a battleground for donut supremacy for decades. I don't eat donuts, but most people here do, so I'm going by years of observational experience. The big chains (Dunkin, etc) come in and use this particularly assholish commercial broker to buy the land next to the local shops. Literally every small donut shop has a major chain in the lot directly next to it. But every single small shop is still in business after all these years, because they focus on the customer experience.

Of course the good money is in big order takeouts for the office. But you can go to any shop for that, you'll get cheaper and faster service from the chain shops. The little shops make it on the atmosphere, the one guy in the office who lobbies for them because he likes to hang out there before coming to work and knows everyone by name. Because it's a nice atmosphere to hang out and the chains are just fucking creepy.

Anyway, I've said my piece and I'll bow out and leave it to the Changed Donut Man to figure out.

Got tons of time the last week to research more, do some writeups and write the executive summary for the cafe and had to change the concept a bit. So it seems that health and fitness is the number one obsession around here and making a donut-oriented shop would be quite a high-risk with the exception of a stand or using festivals etc as a place to sell donuts so after consulting some of the biggest pastry, restaurant and cafe executives, etc. and from my past experience I decided to go with bagels (freshly made bagel sandwiches) as main with tons of flavors, juices and smoothies (also fresh-made from fruit), coffee and finally donuts and other similar products (cupcakes, danish, cookies) as secondary.

I will still be exclusive on the "best donuts in town!" along with "only proper donuts in town" though, but I'll be the bagel-donut man instead  :why_so_serious:

Probably not a bad idea, but make sure they're New York style bagels.  I'm not sure what makes them different, but here in Texas all the bagels taste like a hamburger bun with a hole in it, except at a few of the little shops that bake their own.

And in spite of Schild's puritanism, there is absolutely nothing wrong with cake-batter donuts.  Fine, it's a fried cupcake with a hole in it, it's still delicious.

--Dave

Oh wow, if you want to go the bagel route the best bagels in the world are from : http://www.fairmountbagel.com (http://www.fairmountbagel.com)

I have friends in Germany and Spain that have asked me to ship them bagels from this store because after trying the real thing they craved them at home.  I had to ship them as samples via FedEx because of some odd EU restrictions on imports of bread products.  You may be able to order the directly from the store, I am not sure though.

Nothing beats a wood fired oven bagel.

Clearly if I ever visit Norway I have to travel to Photek's bagel/donut shop now.

Ow I forgot to mention about supply and demand. That kinda figures though and one of the main reason which led me here and also that my grandfather is a baker and has owned a bakery for decades in Ex-Yugoslavia sitting on some of the most tasting stuff I've eaten (recipes) helps. The past week I've been hearing most about wood-fired ovens and some suggested steam injected bagel ovens. So much work, so little time, but loving every step of it so far.

If you get this up and running, I may have to hop the ferry to come visit and try it out. Especially for bagels. There was a great bagel shop in Decatur, and an awesome Chinese bakery in SF that made amazing bagels. None of 'em beat Real New York Bagels though, and there's nothing comparable out here in Reykjavik.

Fuck, I want to make a bagelburger now.

I'm not a big fan of steam injected bagel ovens. I worked in a bagel bakery for a few years and we just had a regular oven with a rotating rack. Fucking delish.

But then, it depends on what style bagel you're aiming for.

Serious Question - What's the difference? I probably haven't had a GOOD bagel in years; mostly Thomas', crap from a vending machine at work, and Dunkin'.

I have never had a good bagel, but last night I had a Krispy Kreme Milkshake.  It's exactly what it sounds like, a KK blended into a vanilla milkshake.  I also had a hamburger that tasted like a Chicago hot dog.  I'll have to go back for lunch (http://www.flipburgerboutique.com/).

Why didn't you just say you went to Richard Blaise's restaurant?

There's a sticky texture and tangy flavor to a Real Bagel, especially concentrated in the crust which after toasting is smooth, slightly shiny, and comparatively non-porous to the point of being effectively waterproof, the interior has voids ranging up to the size of a BB and with lots of variation.  Thomas' is specifically what I'm talking about with "hamburger bun with a hole".  The crust on those is soft rather than chewy; flaky, porous and optically flat when toasted; the flavor is just ordinary bread; and the texture is that of Wonder Bread.

Maybe you shouldn't try and find one.  If you do, you'll never be able to eat a Thomas bagel again.

--Dave

Depends on the variety, a New York bagel these days is also steam injected instead of soaking and releasing steam which results in a terribly inconsistant crust that's more soft than hard. A good bagel has a shine but it depends on the type of bagel, specifically, what's in the bagel. Wheat is going to have a softer consistancy than a white bread bagel and at the same time so is an onion bagel (not a bialy!) Of course, it depends on whether it's just onions cooked on top of the bagel or not. Basically New York (and by extension, Einstein) are basically just not that great of a bagel. The only Jews that like new york bagels are new yorkers because they're mostly assholes.

In other words, trust a jew. That said, I wouldn't do bagels AND donuts. Do one and do it right. The machinery necessary to make proper bagels and proper donuts are entirely different and both take up a huge amount of space unless you just get a panel of deep friers for the donuts but then you run into the problem of cooking different kinds of donuts in the same grease.

Dunkin Donuts bagels are just not great, mostly because they're probably shipped frozen. But then, their "donuts" aren't donuts anyway.

Edit: I suppose I should also mention that the need to stock a heavier much higher-gluten dough (or make it every day, again with different equipment) will result you in basically running two shops. If you're able to use a regular consumer grade mixer on the dough, it's not heavy enough. Also, you need space for large, and I mean large, boilers for salted water. Not to mention if you really want to do a bagel service, each one has to be baked until it's about to brown. This white shit we're seeing in supermarkets are simply not good bagels. I love bagels, and I especially love good bagels, and I am upset with what is available in Texas though I keep buying them from HEB because it's my only real choice since everything else around here is crap and I'm trying to do my best to avoid Einstein's. Finally, New York bagels are simply too big. Or rather, last I had them they were, I can't imagine they've changed, New Yorkers fear change. A bagel should be roughly 20% bigger than a properly made donuts but with a smaller hole than a donut (roughly 50-75% smaller).

Damnit, now I want a Bagel.  We had a few good delis around here 5 years ago, but they've all closed.  Now I'm stuck with Panera, which suck.  Suck suck suckity suck.  I'm always appalled that the folks who bring them in talk them up like they're the best bagels and bread ever.  Overpriced shit aimed ad 'earth conscious' yuppies is what that place sells.

What's the story with egg bagels? I ask Schild and any other jews in the know regarding this type of bagel. I've had them about 6 times in my life, they were the best bagel I ever had, and then poof, the sources for them dissappear. Either the shop stops baking them, or the store stops carrying the company that makes them or some other reason. They seem rare, and not particularly popular, but I think they're awsome. Are they a 'real bagel', or are they an impostor from Philly or some such? Is there any secure line of procurement?

These are the bagels you should be copying. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal-style_bagel)

Mmmmmmmmmm.

Yes, as I said above,   http://www.fairmountbagel.com (http://www.fairmountbagel.com) 

I don't know who that is, plus the restaurant isn't called Richard Blaise's Flip.

Top Chef Season 4:

Richard Blais,[18][19] 35 — Hometown: Uniondale, NY; Resides in Atlanta, GA. Chef, culinary designer, Trail-Blais[18] -- Runner-Up

Was he on the Muppet Show once?

I don't watch TV.

Schild's people are trying to take over the world by weakening the Gentile races through corruption, addiction, and debt:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/19200522_Dearborn_Independent-Intl_Jew.jpg/387px-19200522_Dearborn_Independent-Intl_Jew.jpg)

 :why_so_serious:

EDIT: Smaller picture.

Hmm..   Can I get some Montreal Smoked Meat on that?  With a side of Poutine?

They do have smoked meat on a bagel, no poutine though.  However, there is a place around the corner and down a bit that does poutine with duck fat.

 :eat:

A small update for some random reason. I'm done with most of the prework, did some design and concept drawings of the place and have initiated the product development (read=making delicious bagel sandwiches). So the place is called "Bagelbite" and with extremely hard work the past months I hope to have it up and running by end of June (start of THE season here in Norway). We are going to serve bagel sandwiches, coffee, fresh juices, smoothies, cookies and other sideorders like cupcakes, donuts etcetra, though they are not made here at our place as they are secondary productline.

I put lots of focus on healthy and fresh served food and beverage and am going to have a place for people between 16 and 45 with modern interior and design using vibrant colors like lime green, orange, pink, yellow, purple etcetra. Here is the logo, you guys are some of the first to see it, and I hope some of you get to taste these superdelish bagels. Besides ordinary bagels, bagelsandwiches etcetra we are going to have BBQ for hot bagels with various meat and things on them. And of course various fishes (go Norway!)

(http://i41.tinypic.com/2uj17dj.jpg)

The tag under it means "A healthier choice"  :heart:

Wrong symbol on your logotype (assuming Norway's IP laws are similiar to the US's). You'll want a TM there or a circle R after you register the trademark. The copyright on the "form" is implicit thanks to the Berne convention.

Shit you're right, they are. I didn't add it there though, so I'll change it (<3PSD).

Congrats, Photek! If I'm ever in your part of the woods, I'll be sure to drop by for a bagel.

By the way, you may have a little trouble (http://www.heinz.com/our-food/products/bagelbites.aspx) trademarking that name.

BagelNips  / BagelNip

Wow, so you're actually doing this.  Hats off to you sir.

Very cool Photek! I'm inspired that you've pushed this through. Let me tell you, if this takes off, you're going to have many greatful american expat fans in your neck of the woods. And hopefully some pleasantly surprised Norwegians :)

:oh_i_see:

Srsly, though, good for you, photek! I wish you much success!

Any chance of getting bagels with that awesome salmon paste-y stuff you have over there?

God I kinda want to be there for the grand opening. As a jew, it's like an obligation.

Good luck on this Photek, hopefully it goes well




I thought the newsletter said they had group travel rates for bagel shop openings, no?

I have several friends in Norway, I'll command them to go this place once it opens up.  Just post the info when its ready ;).

Are you getting all the donuts second hand or have you tried to make any yourself?

Wow, what response, thanks all! I got this great british chef and baker called Sean Hastings working with me on the bagels, so far those I've aten and made are tuna bagels, various fishies (yes, salmon and they are my favourites) to keep it Norwegian as well as original, and other default type bagels with roast beef etcetra. Now the specials one we have made are with various BBQ meat which are absolutely delish and I think they will be very popular. Going to have product testing on the 20th of April where several people are invited to give us feedback and such on our various bagels, bagel sandwiches and smoothies. As we went "healthy choice" we have some fun facts on our menys, both at the place and the booklets with nutrition facts.

Im currently designing the place and have several designs based on the size of the place ranging from 130m2 to 250m2, I don't want it too small (tight coffee house with people stacked) or too big (McDonalds), hope I can post some pics soon. Will at least take quite some pictures from the tasting night and will update this thread.

The donuts will be made second hand yes and delivered to us fresh, those who are making them are making them "Dunkin Donut" style, luckily they are located here in Norway. They deliver to various places in Oslo and Bergen (larger towns here in Norway) and now will deliver to us. The juices are made out of fresh fruit on the spot and we have a menu with products or people can combine their own juices as they wish. Same goes for the bagel sandwiches, so all is delivered fresh. We will have some premade in boxes which we make each morning for people who are in a hurry (the most popular and default ones), otherwise they are made on order and people will have a large choice from our menu or also mix their own as they wish.

If there is some F13 meeting going on somewhere I'll gladly send you over some bagels once I'm up and running!

Congrats man, best of luck. You are making me drool with all this talk of salmon and bagels.

The king of "bagel sandwiches" around here is smoked salmon (lox) and creamcheese with onions (preferably red) and capers.

Best of luck Photek. If anything carries me to Norway in the near future I'll make sure to try and pay your place a visit!

This is awesome.  If I ever have the opportunity to taste one of your bagels, I'll risk the upset tummy and chow down!  (From celiac.  I have no worries about them not being delish.)

Photek, I would move to Norway to work in your bagel shop.

I am not kidding.

It may not be the best in the world, but this store (http://www.greatamericanbagel.com/) is great for the Chicago area and does really well. That website will show a few other recipe options that you may not have thought of, that may go well where you are (lox/salmon cream cheese, asiago bagels, pizza/tomazzo bagels, apple cinnamon oat, etc). Also, they have a day old bagel sale, bagel chips from old bagels (they also use the bagel chips to give as an option in place of crackers for their soup), and on Wednesday they do baker's dozen for half price.

And now that I think about it, I want a turkey club w/ ranch on an asiago bagel.

Good luck!  And take Schild up on his offer.  There aren't enough Jewegians in the world!

You know, I think Sweden and Norway are on the short list for places I wouldn't mind shacking up with a native girl.

Norway would be perfect for you.  According to my friends, once you make it in, you can just lay around and live off crazy welfare without actually working anywhere  :awesome_for_real:

Shh! People aren't supposed to know that until they're actually here.

EDIT: Also, well done on your endeavor with the donut/bagel-thingy so far, photek! If only your shop were to be located in Oslo, I'd come visit and you could demand that I hand over all my gems and jewels and I'd refuse and we'd fight and eventually it'd be a draw because, y'know, you could never kick my ass anyway. And then I'd buy a bagel/donut/smoothie.

I'm ready for the f13 invasion of Swedway. Back to the land of my people, before they got around to raping Irish lasses.

I'd have to convince my Irish lass, though...

Mm. I can catch a fairly cheap flight to Bergen from here. Perhaps we should have an F13 Extreeeeeeme North meetup at Photek's bagel joint later this year.

Oh, I meant move there and get on welfare. I can't afford to fly there and actually come back.

I think we deserve an update, yo.

Maybe he's busy debating whether to serve peanut donuts or not.  (Yes, an update would be grand.)

http://www.copsdoughnuts.com/ (http://www.copsdoughnuts.com/)

 :grin:

Krispy Kreme is the bomb, plz don't hate on their glazed! Though i haven't tried these Horton Doughnuts, my family hails from Winston Salem NC there home of Krispy Kreme and I have had them since I was like 3 or so (i'm 32). 

Opening a new Doughnut franchise can be rough especially in a country that doesn't have much in the way of demand for your product, but then again you can create a demand and be the progenitor of the next best thing in Norway!

 :oh_i_see: Hire me!

OK, so I'm going to Norway at the end of the month for a few days.  Photek, if your actually still alive, post on the condition of your shop and where I can find it :p.  If you actually have it up and running, I'd like to run by.

In other news, somebody give me some ideas on things to see in Norway.  I'm unfortunately only going to be there for 4 days, and one of them is going to be dedicated to a wedding and drinking, so it'll have to be things easy to get to from the area of Oslo (I'm not staying in Oslo, but some town not to far from it I think). 

I hate KK.  Luck for me KK is now the standard and I don't eat doughnuts any more.

Probably seems a bit obvious, but go to the fjords. And find some time to fish. I used to live in Stavanger and remember it being quite pretty at times.

Did photek ever come back, or was he crushed to death by a giant donut?

I was assuming heart attack first week on the job.

I know, his last post was in this thread  :cry:  Hope everything is OK.

Also, I've just been asked by my Norwegian friends to bring as much booze as possible with me for the wedding as alcohol is so god damn expensive in Norway.  Theres no specific restriction on the amount of alcohol you can have in your checked luggage, right?  Just comes down to the custom duties of the country your flying into?  Looks like I'm about to give Norway a massive taste of Bourbon!   :drill: :drill: :drill:

I'm just wondering if it was such a giant success that the Dunkin' Donut and Krispy Kreme donut assassins had to take him out.

Check this page (http://www.toll.no/templates_TAD/Article.aspx?id=146537&&epslanguage=NO) for specific details about importing alcohol and stuff.

Maybe he got fat fingers from eating too many bagels. Oh the irony!

So, anybody know if they actually check you at customs in Norway?  Every time I've been to Europe so far, I've just had my passport stamped and walked out the airport.  Is it any different in Norway?  What I'm bringing will pretty much fall under those guidelines, but I might see if I can bring 1.5 liters of Whiskey, though the limit is 1 liter.

I guess if all else fails, I can just claim stupid foreigner who didn't understand the rules correctly  :awesome_for_real:

"Liter? What's that? That's like, your word for a gallon, right?"  :drill:

I am most certainly going to use that now.

Well, they can check.  If they do find something, they can prevent you from entering the country again in the future, fine you or possibly send you to prison.  Always a fun mark in your passport to explain to other countries you visit too.  Really not worth it.

There cannot possibly be a more expensive place in the entire world than Norway.

Well, there is Japan.

No, I lived in Japan for a year.  Japan is cheep utopia compared to Norway.  Japan is Somalia cheep compared to Norway.

So, what ever happened to Photek? Die from kidney failure or sugar overload?

What the fuck are you buying?

A bottle of coke was $4.  A pizza was $35-40.  I got a Donner Kabab from a greasy corner stand and it was $13.  A can of beer from the supermarket was $5 (and it was just a light lager).

Japan can be pricey on some things, but lots of stuff can also be as cheep as it is in the US.  You always have options.  Not in Norway.

It's like as if Disneyland was an entire country.


Fake Edit:  But lest it sound like I'm bitching to much, I had a great time and really loved the country.  Its just the prices.....dear god.

I admit I am not an aficionado of coke, but four dollars sounds about right for a two liter bottle.  Pizza, that is about the same price as Dominoes in Japan.  Donner Kebab in Canada is thirteen dollars plus tax, so that sounds right.  As for beer, five dollars sounds about right for a bottle of Grolsch.

What are you bitching about again?  Exchange rates?

WHERE ARE THE NORWEGIAN DONUTS?

I have bad news I'm afraid. Photek was found dead behind the counter of his doughnut shop covered in whipped cream, caramel icing and hundreds and thousands. The Norwegian police are not treating the death as suspicious, according to the coroner he topped himself.

The bottle of Coke was 500 ml's   :oh_i_see:.  Your right about the pizza in Japan being about that high, forgot about that (but its still ass fuckingly horrible either way).  I refuse to believe you pay $13 for a Donner in Canada.  I got big nice ones in Paris for $6.  I even got one in Japan in Harajuku for $8.  Grolsch for $5 is a crime.

Either way, your having to take the highest prices from around the world to try to match all that Norway has, so I think my original statement still stands  :awesome_for_real:

I guess it could be the exchange rate hurting things worst, but even if it was better I've still never seen prices so broadly inflated.  Luckily, it turns out that several of my Norwegian friends come from insanely wealthy families, so I mainly mooched the entire time I was there.

I'd have eaten the damn donuts, taken pictures for F13, etc., if I could figure out what happened to Photek, but no word yet in time. 

Try $2, if that.

No way, in KoD land(Nova Scotia, it gets harder to find the further west you go). a good donair will run you 1/2lb "medium" will run you $7. If you want to go hog wild for 1lb its $11.

Donner Kebab is not the same thing as your sugar laced vile piece of shit in a pita donair.

The fuck is a Donner Kebab?  I'm so lost, I also wish Photek would reappear, this was one of my all time favorite things that have happened on f13.

Bad luck with your choices of food there. Pizza, kebab and similar are for some reason outrageously expensive in Norway. I'm not sure why. Had you gone across the border to Sweden, you would have got a pizza for about $8 which I imagine is more in line with the American pricing. Norway -is- also otherwise very expensive, but you really cherrypicked some of the most extreme things, even by Scandivanian measures (all the Scandinavian countries are in the top-20 of most expensive countries to live in.)

Döner Kebab is what you get if you order kebab here and it looks something like this:

And it is awesome. :grin:

The bread looks a bit dry.

Christ whats the hate on donairs for? Gyro's next?

Btw the sugar is in the sauce which you don't have to get

You put icing on your meat? wtf?

Donairs are typically topped with sauce made from condensed milk. So it ought to be sweet as all hell, but I have no first-hand experience.

If it's anything like the sauce that goes on gyros, it's pretty much cucumber and yogurt. I miss getting kebabs in Dublin. I also miss the now-closed kickass gyro shop that was down the street from my old place in Wrigleyville.

Meats shaved off of a vertical spit and served on pita w/ sauce, tomato and onion = win.

You are a very bad man.

No no, in Canada they put sugar in to the sauce.

Fucking disgusting.

Also, why the fuck are you eating pizza, kebabs and coca-cola in Norway?

Yes.  You should be eating sardines and only sardines!

Trust me, I ate plenty of scary Norwiegan food.  Its just that it was all eaten at houses (or on a 7 masted yaht one of my friends family owns  :awesome_for_real:) prepared by my friends, so it was all free and I never saw the prices.  In their words, its to expensive to go out for dinner in Norway, so they almost always eat at home.  I only paid for food when I needed to grab something to snack on while I was running around (and a man can only stand a slice a bread with random shit put on top of it for so long).  We ordered out for pizza the last day because everybody was too tired/hungover to cook, and the supermarkets were all closed because it was Sunday (the day Norway shuts down).


Also, the only real reason to visit Europe is for Donners.  Everything else is just pretext.

Lies. 

You are one of those Americans that goes to Japan and complains about the price of hot dogs at the big egg.

It's the natural past time of Exchange Students in Japan to bitch about the cost of everything.  However, I lived there a year and never once bought a hot dog, so  :-P 

About 3/4 of the way through, however, I broke down and hunted down the one and only Costco in our region, just so I could sneak in and order a slice of greasy ass pizza from the food court.  It tasted just like back home!

Has anyone tried e-mailing him instead of asking in the thread he's not reading?

Yes.

But, hell, I'll do so again.

I'll take your word on that.

I wouldn't. In Vancouver I survived a year on chicken and mushroom donairs for under $6, and there sure as hell wasn't sugar in the tzaiki, err tsik... white greek cucumbery sauce.

You want to talk disgusting prices... I walked through Pike Place Market today.

Ah, according to Wikipedia Donair has not made it out to BC.  Apparently it is in Alberta though, slowly creeping west from the Atlantic since 1973...

Hopefully you grabbed some Market Spice tea. That stuff rules and is worth whatever they ask.

I'll remember that if I stop by before I leave. You know, you should really be out here showing people like Ookii and myself what we should be doing in your town...

Though to be fair, the only time I haven't been in the convention so far was to grab dinner at the Tap House last night - a whole 200' from the convention center.

Yes, this.

You should drink Urge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urge_(soft_drink)) instead of Coca-Cola.

Edit: Also, Photek (or someone with the same nick) has a forum account on RunUO, which shows "Last Activity: 08-18-2009 04:52 AM".

Urge is just coca cola's answer to Mountain Dew. Or it was, until it failed and then got replaced with an actual green drink, Vault, which did just fine. I prefer Surge to Vault but I think Mountain Dew tastes like ass.

Actually, Urge didn't fail and get replaced. Urge was released in Norway + some other Scandinavian countries before a renamed version called Surge was released in the US - which then failed ;P Urge, however, is still going strong in Norway =P

I was only speaking for America.

If I would have had some advance notice I might have been able to meet you for a meal or a cocktail or 6  :grin: Since I moved farther out into the burbs and had a kid I don't get to Seattle all that often- my wife and I would have loved an excuse to go to some of our fav spots!

So does anybody know what's going on with Photek. Donut mogul or a serious case of type 2 diabetes?

I know!  It's been ages since we've heard from him!  I hope he didn't fall in a fjord or something.