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So my wifes transmission died and I need to buy a new car. The dealerships have apparently gone insane because of the whole "Economy falling appart" thing... and are trying to get cars of their lots... great! But apparently, they are so desperate that they are resorting to more fraud than I'm used to (even at a used car lot.)

We researched on line, went to 3 lots, and in every single case the low-priced car we went to look at was "Just sold" uh huh... would we like to see another? No thanks.

We got to one lot, they tried telling us they couldn't find it... I found it parked in front of their main doors... lol. Then they told me the price listed on the internet was wrong. I tried to demand they had to honor it, they refused. I walked off. The next morning the price was raised $800.

Yesterday we went to look at one, it was "Just sold" would we like to look at this other one that is 4yrs older, double the millage and the same price... no thanks. But then I look this morning and not only is it still listed on their website, they actually lowered the price. So I call and ask if that car is available, oh yes it is... let's setup a showing for this afternoon. Then I mention, by the way, I was there last night and they said it was sold. The operator was shocked! She would do some investigating. Apparently some glitch with their inventory system. Anyway, they had several practically identical cars to show us this afternoon, they were looking forward to seeing us! No thanks. Click.

Seriously, EVERY car lot we go to is like this. Any suggestions? My wife needs a car and we're tired of screwing around.

What dealerships are these?  I had the same experience when things were "Good" at Honda/ Toyota, but the American dealerships were fine and honest with me.

  Hell, Honda was trying to force me into an Accura that wouldn't even start up.  The next one had a trunk seal so bad there was an inch of standing water in it. Both cars had the "35 point inspection guarantee" sticker slapped on it.  :awesome_for_real:

I'd say avoid the larger dealerships alltogether.  They're hurting the most and probably the most desperate to offload anything. 

They were all larger dealerships. Both American and foreign. My wife is absolutely livid because she is now realizing when she finds a good deal on the net, it probably wont be there when we arrive.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just replace the transmission?  Or is the transmission worth more than the car?

Also, don't trade it in.  Donate the vehicle to one of your local charities or your local high school shop class / occupational college.  Nice tax write and you do something good!

Edit to add:  Shop autotrader.com.  Or, if you're buying outright, buy from an individual.

2nd edit:  They may have very well thought it was sold last night.  And the financing fell through and it was put back on the lot.  Yeah, dealers are a shady bunch, but not everything is a scam.

Newspaper ad cars are almost guaranteed to be "bait & switch" cars:

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/strategies/articles/55744/article.html

No, her car is very old, and very beat up... her choice, not mine.
We are giving it to a local charity, although they are telling me it will take them a week to pick it up... I may just call a salvage yard if they don't get their act together.

No, the car wasn't sold last night. The car is their "Bait car."  I know some lots did it sometimes. But I think the financial issues have pushed them over the edge and they are all going crazy right now trying to empty their lots. We have a GM plant pretty close to us, so I think they may be really nervous. I can almost guarantee that car is parked in their garage, or hidden around back.

My wife just informed me over lunch that a car we looked at a week ago and was told "Was sold" is still listed on that dealerships website today.

It's fraud, plain and simple.

A) Research what kind of car you are looking for. Make and model and mileage. Dont be a mope. Dont buy solely based on price or you are just going to get jerked around. Hell I would try to up-sell you as well. You make it obvious you havent done any research and dont know what it is you want.

B) Then start doing some inventory searches on the internet. THEN do some searches for fair market value. Kelley Blue Book or Consumer Affairs website or something. Then figure out what you are going to offer before you ever go down to the lot.

C) Then walk straight into the dealership, ask to see the sales manager. Tell him your price and the car you are looking for and if he is willing to make a deal, then let him assign the sales person.

In 2005 I got my 4Runner Limited for $200 over invoice doing this. Saved about $5k.

A: Did that. Have a subscription to consumer reports. Use kelly bluebook and NADA
B: Did that to. I go to autotrader, or local sites, look for cars, print out the ones we want to look at, write the NADA and bluebook values on the revers side of the page and go to the lots. Problem is, the cars aren't there when we get there. I think we are going to have to just skip the cars that are priced right at bluebook (even lower sometimes) and assume they are frauds.
C: That's what we were doing... again, "Sorry we just sold that car 20min ago... come look at these other cars"

Lets say you want a Honda Civic. Okay?
If you walk onto a GM dealership lot then chances are they wont have a lot. Go to a Honda dealership. Tell them the year, make and model and the price you are willing to pay. Will you make a deal, yes or no.

Again you are trying to home in on a specific car at a specific advertised price. Instead you should be looking for any car that meets your make, model and mileage desires. Color and other shit are not relevant.

Also try Carmax...if you have one near you. All they do are used cars so might have a larger selection. Where as most new car dealerships get their used cars from auctions...not trade ins.

lol, this cars for my WIFE. Color and everything else is important. If you tell me I've got to get a woman to think rationally to before I can buy a car I might as well just pack it in right now.

Oh and for fucks sake have it checked out by an independent party before purchase so you know what else is wrong with it and what kind of money you'll be spending.

You are fucked. Give up. Or prepare for a long search. To find the exact make, model, mileage, color, smell, and matching upholstery.
 

My advice: Buy from a private party and have the car checked out by a qualified mechanic before purchasing.  Yes, the potential to lose money in this option exists, but comes at the expense of the way to find the best possible deal.  Car dealerships are in business to make money.  If they can screw you, you can bet that they will. 

The best way to get a deal from a dealership is to have a friend or relative who has a good long-term customer relationship with one salesperson and have them introduce you. These guys are almost always the professional salespeople who know the value of good word of mouth and repeat business. They may not be able to get you the super ZOMG "I paid less than bluebook" deal that your weird uncle keeps talking about at family reunions but chances are very good you won't get screwed either.

Another way is to do as Broughden did, which is great if the dealership will play ball. Many won't, even in this climate and given what you've said about your wife that's probably not an option.

The third and most nervewracking option is to play the game. Go to the dealership, do the dance, act disinterested and bored (get your wife to play along, even if she sees the car of her dreams), and know enough about the car she picks to not get screwed in the negotiations.

Another recommendation is to get your credit report and more importantly your BEACON score. Get preapproved from a local bank or credit union if possible. Another way that dealers can and willl screw you is on dealer reserve, which is the kickback the dealer gets from the lending institution for originating the loan. If you've ever gone to a dealership and while you're getting financing they come back with "well the bank approved it for a slightly higher interest rate, raising the payment a bit", chances are you're getting fucked with dealer reserve. What they're doing is raising the interest rate on you higher than the bank's nominal interest rate for your credit tier (the "buy rate") and pocketing the difference. Especially with all the banking drama going on right now, a lot of dealers are getting away with murder on the back-end by telling customers with spotless credit they have to pay 10-12% interest on a car loan because of tight credit.

To give you an idea, let's say you find a used car and want to finance $20,000 over 60 months. At 6% interest rate that's $3200 of total interest paid on the loan. If the dealer can get you to sign a contract at a 10% interest rate, that's $5500 of interest on the loan. Congratulations, you just paid $22,300 because almost all of that extra interest goes back to the dealer.

i'll 2nd this idea, if you are going to deal with a dealership/car lot this is the way to go.

Actually in my experience many will if you offer them a fair profit on the car. You just have to understand that generally the more expensive the car the bigger the profit margin, so dont walk in expecting $4k off the sticker price of a Honda Fit. There might only be $1k in in dealer mark up on it.

I walked in to the dealership and offered $1k over invoice, they had about $4-5k mark up in it and were happy to make an easy grand from a customer ready to buy who knew what he wanted. I ended up getting it for $200 over invoice because their own finance department writing the contract out fucked up.

They make bank with some of the used models as well.  We bought a used car once for $3500.  We later found the original owners of the car, and discovered they'd recieved $1500 in trade-in value.

The engine eventually ended up fucked up beyond what I wanted to pay for repairs.  While it was sitting around my front curb, a guy offered to buy it from me.  Apparently he had the exact same model, but had done major body & frame damage to it.  The engine worked fine, though, so I sold my car to him for $100, and he dropped the engine from his car into it.  So I guess if you're really mechanically inclined, you could do the same thing :P

Buy from a private party, fuck every single car dealer on the planet.  Or, go to a salvage yard and pull a transmission, put it in your wife's old car, problem solved (this depends quite a bit on the year, make and model of the dead car as some are evil to work on and others are easy).  Private parties are desperate to unload vehicles they can't afford anymore, you can get some pretty sweet deals if you know what you are looking at.

Also, find out what the average trade in value of a car is.  The dealers purchasing manager (or sales manager on a trade) will offer that just about on the money.  Figure 500 bucks worth of prep work by the dealer to get it ready to sell, and there's your starting point for negotiation.  Offer then 500 bucks over that figure, and see if they bite.  If they don't, leave them your phone number and walk away.  The key is to act as unemotional about it as possible.  As long as they believe you can or will just walk away from the deal, they'll play.  And as someone said, know your beacon score before you start looking.  Dealers will negotiate more if they know without a shadow of a doubt that financing isn't an obstacle.  Tell the fuckers to go ahead and run your credit (assuming its good) so they know you mean business.

Also, if you use your bank to buy the car, you'll need whatever the difference is that the bank says they will pay for the car and what the actual sales price is.  If you have money in hand (whether preapproved from another lending institution, cash, or even a credit card*) to buy the car outright where the dealership doesn't have to run credit and jump those hoops, you'll get better results.

*The finance manager is really the key in alot of negotiations.  When we bought my wifes ML350 (it was a 2 years old at the time, not a new vehicle), her credit had some stuff on it that stopped her from getting the absolute best interest rate she could get.  They can play with the rates, and don't let them fool you.  I told him I knew he was going to get a kickback from the lending institution, and that he could either lower the interest rate and make SOME money off of it, or I was going to put the vehicle on my credit card and he could lose all of it; my interest rate was lower on my card by something like 1.5 percent.  He didn't believe that a) my interest rate was that low, or b) that I had enough credit on one card to buy the vehicle with. 

Needless to say, he lowered the rate to 5 hundredths of a percent of what I wanted.

During your negotiations, during the "We Owe/You Owe" stage, make one final requirement:  Have them remove any decals or emblems on the vehicle advertising the dealers name before you take the keys or they'll owe you X amount of dollars in advertising fees.  See what happens.  The finance guy nearly came out of his skin trying to snatch the keys away from the sales guy to go check the car before I officially took ownership of it.  I *refuse* to be a rolling advertisement for Joe Bob's Mercedes after giving them X amount of dollars for the damn thing.

I enjoy the process.  It's fun.  Pretty sad that you have to sign more paperwork to buy a car than you do to buy a house though.

Have you tried a broker? They will do a lot of legwork to get a car that matches what you want for the price you want, show it to you, and then you get to decide if you want it or not.

It took me about 4 months to purchase both cars I've ever bought, one an 82 Porsche 911 and 10 years later a 2003 BMW 325Ci. The key was patience and getting a groove on when you're doing it.

Firstly, figure out what car you want by visiting dealerships. They are pretty much all players, and you sorta have to play ball with them, but that doesn't mean they jerk YOU around. You can turn the tables on them, use their unquenched desire to please you to get as much information as you can regarding the vehicle you are interested in, then, so as not to offend, pretend you're interested in their price, but then finally cite some small niggly thing and walk away.

Once that's done, hunt down the desired vehicle from a smaller locale who's selling point is being very stiff on the terms of sale. They tend to be slightly more honest. Then, when you have a good vibe off the dealer and the vehicle (which you have test driven), you do a buyer's inspection at an independent mechanic (or a mechanic you trust, anyway). This isn't foolproof, however. I've gone all the way to the altar with a car that looked perfect, only to find out that the dealer had lied to me on any number of things after the buyer's inspection revealed the truth.

In the end, with both cars, I ended up buying a 'cheap' car from small dealers that normally sold high end expensive cars. They worry about their reputation a bit more and are interested in you being serious about purchasing. I purchased the Porsche at a vintage car dealer who had Bentleys and restored Buick8s, The BMW I got at Maserati of Seattle. The price was a bit higher than what was 'promised' at the regular dealerships, but I got completely solid reliable cars both times.

With the incentives out there it almost pays to buy a new car these days over used. Find out what you want, then do all negotiation via email or facsimile with rounds of playing one dealer's price against another. Fax/Email 5 dealers the exact specifications you want. Then take the lowest price and fax/email the other 4 if they can beat that price. Rinse repeat until no dealer will go lower than the lowest price offered. Get an offer from them in writing, arrange financing beforehand, walk in and get the car.

Or go to Carmax. The Carmax sticker price on my FJ was $4k less than I'd managed to beat the local Toyota place down to on a new car, and watching (as I was waiting for my check to clear and paperwork to get done) them sell a couple used cars they were far less pushy than any other dealer I've seen. But like all car dealers, pay in cash or walk in pre-approved by your bank/credit union. Fuck dealer finance offices. They are ONLY there to screw you.

That said, the last couple used cars I've gotten have been from little lots that buy shit cars from auctions and fix 'em up. If you know what you're looking at, you can get some good deals, especially in the Southwest, where the paint will be faded, but you have less worry about rust.

Carmax.

Make sure you get the car checked out.  I got screwed with a bad transmission about 10 years ago because I didn't get it checked out.

While we're on the "used-car" topic... I'm dreaming of one day buying a 1968 Chevrolet Corvette (blue) :awesome_for_real: I don't want to deal with all the hassle of importing from the US though, which means I'll have to find one here in Norway... which again means it will most likely be expensive as hell. -_-

Depending on your financial situation it actually may work out easier for you to import one.  Cars are for sale everywhere and people are desperate to move them, especially"fun" and "hobby" cars like a 'vette.  Dealing with one that is imported is much more convenient, but how often does a sought after car like a Corvette come up for sale over there?

Yea... I never even start looking for a car until I have the loan in-hand. We have a credit score of 780 and no credit cards so we can get whatever interest rate we want. I got it in writing exactly what my interest rate will be. That's not even part of the negotiation.

I actually talked the wife into re-looking at a car we had seen about a week ago. We had it sent to our Mechanic today, it needs new front tires and a belt. He also informed me (because he is an awesome mechanic) that they had lowered the sticker price. It's now about $500 bellow bluebook. I've got an appointment tonight and am just going to offer him sticker ($7k) if he replaces the belt and the front tires with something brandname (BFG/Goodyear/whatever) get it in writing. I'll even pay tax and title. It's a 2004 with 40k miles on it... $7k is a good deal imo. My mechanic said he really liked the car, would buy it himself if he could. lol

As far as dropping a new tranny in the old car, I am fully capable. I do a lot of my own wrenching and have even restored and lifted a Jeep XJ (My mini monster truck /flex) but this is a 92 Hyundai accent. It literally has holes in the sides of it. Recently it needed new tires and I let the wife pick them out, she picked out the cheapest she could find and it now sounds like my Monster truck on the freeway because they're so damn loud. Of course... I'm kinda glad she got the cheapest now that the tranny blew. Smart lady that one. Anyways, she wants babys... can't have my kids riding around in a car with holes in it... they may fall out!

You could always have more. I hear they come in 8-packs now.

With 50%-80% off sticker price, why not buy new? Granted you will probably be driving off with 08 model that you will have no hopes of selling in this economy if you have to, why not get into long run of 5+ year ownership? Are you bad at maintaining your cars and just prefer to lease-and-trash every 2 years?

Because I have more important things to spend my money on than a $400/month car payment. I don't care how much I make, I'll never buy a new car.

I do most of my own mechanic work, unless it needs a lift or my garage is too cold. I keep them well maintained. Hence the reason my wife was driving such an old car.

Anyways, they took our offer. Got an 04 Hynduai Sonata with 40k miles for $7k. They're putting new tires on it today and replacing the belt my mechanic said was bad. $500 bellow bluebook is a fair deal imo. Finally I can get on with my life. Thanks guys.

This.  If it ever costs more to get a good pre-leased car that's still got a factory warranty and has taken the 'drove off the lot' hit than it does to get a new car, then I'll get one.  In the meantime it's a tool that depreciates, not a life statement and not an extension of my cock.  Spending $30k to $40k on it instead of $7k-$13k just seems asinine. 

There is some really horrid advice in this thread.  If you have specific questions about how dealers work, feel free to ask.  My wife has been in the car business as a service writer, service manager, and office manager for over 18 years.

I've also done a considerable amount of side work for them  Between the two of us. we should be able to answer any questions you have.

Well, tell us were we are wrong.  Puff puff give!

Craigslist is ftw imo.

Bought my 1992 Honda Accord on there for $2500 ($700-1k below Blue book value) with a perfect exterior (no scratches or dents) and no mechanical issues except for a minor oil leak (the only repair I've had to do on the car).  A year later, the car is still running better and smoother than my mom's 2000 Honda Odessey.

If you are fast enough, you can get some great stuff on Craigs list. 

For starters, someone suggested buy a new car from last year's leftovers.  NEVER DO THIS.  You are effectively paying the new car price for a 1 year old used car with low mileage.

Is there not a price reduction for being last year's model? I thought that was the whole point. Get a car that's virtually new for lower sticker cost than the current year's model.

You're still paying near new car prices, even with a big discount you've basically already lost more than that much money off the car's value from hidden depreciation.

Well, I thought what one was paying for with a new car was either the latest features or a sense of 'teh shiney'. I mean, if we're talking depreciating issues, buy used every time.

Are none of your at all concerned about how the person who had the car previously actually drove it?

Always take a used car you are interested in to your local mechanic to look at.  And get a Carfax.  Ask the dealer to get one for you as most good dealers will do this for you.  If they won't, then you don't want to buy your car there anyway.

Good point.

The CBC did a segment on one of it's regular investigative journalism programs about Carfax not too long ago.  It's falliable, so make sure you get a mechanic you trust to look things over.

The reality is that both of these are not 100%.  A mechanic cannot start tearing down the heads on the engine to examine it's innards.  The most they can do is look for stuff like fouled plugs, uneven tire wear, leaky suspension parts, etc.