f13.net

Hello F13.

I'm in dire need of psychological evaluation and help, so I figured I'd share my story here and hopefully get some clarification and an objective perspective on my case since my head is kinda lost. I don't know what to do. So this is the story.. I met this girl about five-six months ago who is extremely beautiful, attractive, smart, full of ambitions and she was superawesome, the attitude (lady), meh, I could go on for a long time. We were different though and there is an age difference, she is turning 20 this year, I'm turning 24. She is going to be a pilot and is currently a hair model, I like drawing pixels and banging drums and playing guitars (music). She is new to relationships and I have had several long ones so I'm the experienced one in this case. However, we started hanging out after meeting at this club and went on as "just friends", but the more time she spent with me, the more she realized that it wasn't just friendship and we started dating, going out, things evolved naturally etcetra until we ended up together. VICTORY!!!! Johnny Chase voice]

Or so I thought... Things were going perfectly for the first period, I mean as usual when you meet someone, new relationship, the excitement, flirting and all and she was really happy. So was I. After a long time of no relationships for me, just random hookups, I kinda opened up for this girl as she seemed to be very right for me, she introduced me to her parents and I actually enjoy conversing with her mom, took me to her sisters birthday and then her brothers which is like 500KM away from here where we spent three days, and as hard-ass he was and really put me on trial, I came out in one piece and approved.

SUDDENLY things changed. The more we got comfortable around eachother, spent quite some time (Not so much so it got naggy and overkill) and I felt we were clicking really well, you know when you start having fucked up thoughts at my age like "Shit, I could actually live with this girl and I see a future"... She started changing. I realized she was a bit unstable due to family history, and as I am her first OFFICIAL relationship, she has been dating, but never anything she calls relationship, she started rejecting me, I have to take the initiative to do stuff (except the bed-stuff, there she is on 24/7(, I have to ask her out and she is just acting cold around me lately. I am the one who takes her hand when we walk outside, I am.. Yeah. The igniter.

Stuff went on like this and we had a conversation where she told me she needed more time as this was her first relationship and she tries to put on this mask and show me that she is cold and can't evolve real emotions for anyone (which is pure bull, she is really emotional and somewhat unstable in that case, moodswings, ups and downs.. You know.) and now the last three weeks things have been going on like this. I mean, this is after being two-three months together in a relationship, which is WAY too early for these problems to start coming. As she told me she needed more space and time, I have given her that, and the only time she calls me over is for random booty-calls, which would normally be fine, but not when you love a girl. She also barely answers the few messages I send her and when I pour out my heart and soul to tell her how much she means to me in a 3 part SMS, I get something like "I enjoy being with you too. You are sweet. I just need more time". Im so damn confused... I have been lucky with girls in my life and ended up with the really beautiful ones so I kinda am used to sometimes being the underdog in a relationship, but this time I refuse, I grew balls. I have to figure out what is best for me and stop thinking about only the ups and remove the love-blindness and face the downs and see what is best for me and for my future. I love her, I truly do, but I can't be played with like this emotionally and going around pondering what is going on..  :heartbreak:

What would F13 do ?

Bang her sister.

Edit:  It's a woman.  They're all unstable.

You're ready but she is not. You've been through this before but she has not.

She is going to drag you through hell of let's-see-other-people and let's-be-friends-throughout and I'm-going-to-hang-with-your-brother/roommate/cousin/close-friend. And it's actually because of exactly what she said "she needs more time". In her case she does.

You just need to decide two things:

a) You're willing to take that ride; and,
b) You're sure she's going to end up with you in the end.

Sometimes people are and sometimes they're not.

1) Realize that you have value.

2) Come to the conclusion that if she isn't interested, then it's her loss.

3) Move on.

I know it's cold, but that's really the truth about relationships.  You have to be with someone that is 100% happy with who you are as a human being.  If they're not, tell them goodbye and hope that they find one that makes them happy.  Truth is that some people are just never happy nor satisfied with anyone.  If that's her issue, it's best that she move on as it will do nothing but drag you into a codependent relationship until your self-esteem is in the shitter.

Married and not quite as hot. Her mom though.. Cougar. Seriousness plez  :why_so_serious:

Well, you're right on the money dude. She's young, and this is new to her..

It might not be "issues" or anything serious like that (I mean, everyone has issues), but maybe she's just not really ready for a relationship herself. Maybe she keeps looking on the other side of the fence, not exactly realizing what she has in you.

You say you have balls -- You might have to make the most ballsy move yet by letting her go, man. Tell her you understand that she needs space, tell her how you feel, but let her go. Don't drive yourself nuts trying to win her over.. Sounds like you've laid yourself bare enough. You either have her or you don't. Maybe by removing yourself, she might see what she's missing. Maybe she won't.. but at the very least, take a step back for your own peace of mind. :)

It's her first relationship.

Bail out.

Nebu and Darniaq, that is some quality material. I have been considering these options myself, but the problem occurs when we hang out I realize how much I want her. I know for a fact I'm young also and need more experience, but she is on a new level of inexperienced to relationships. Its really hard being around a person like that and combined with her random mood-swings, it gets tedious. I mean, I am really patient and understand her compromises in this situation and I am willing to do a lot, but you are probably right about this part :

While I have always appreciated Nebu and Darniaq's advice, I'm sorry to say that the ball isn't really in your court. It's her first relationship. We can talk about how you feel and how right you may or may not be for her and how you're willing to wait and blah blah blah. But it doesn't really matter.

Girls are absolutely nuts. There's no two ways about it. Layer on the fact you've got 4 years on her - and even then you're only 24, which makes her a goddamn sexual toddler, well...

Be a fucking man and bail out.

Edit: It's not that she needs time. She needs LIFE EXPERIENCE. She needs to get the hell out there and live for herself.

Even more quality stuff. This is why I post serious shit on F13 and not FOH :grin:

Stray : You are probably right, that is the "issue", or the thing that makes it NOT work. This is going to be a proper mindtwister, I will give her some more time and really put effort into it for one last time, if stuff doesn't change I should really just .

This is spot on.

Eh, you have issues too by the way. You realize how tedious it is, but yet, you want her.  :grin:


Just for an experiment, find an older woman (older than you, not just her).

And you'll feel like that about the next person you fall in love with too.

You've got to decide just how much work you're willing to do to make the relationship work (and they're all hard work one way or another) but you've also got to decide how little effort you're prepared to put up with from her.

Tell her that. See who jumps first.

Difference is, I'm aware of them :grin:

If you decide to stick with her, stop baring your soul to her so much at this stage.  It's trusting and awesome of you, but it's probably overwhelming for her.  If she's having commitment issues then it could actually be pushing her away.

That's not to say be cold or not to tell her how you're feeling or that you love her, just try to rein it in a bit.

Also women can be moody, emotional, and frigidly cold at the same time.

I got the same advice from a friend (woman) and I tried this and it kinda works. Also I try to be somewhat laid back around her and not overwhelm her with this, but we always end up in the same yellow submarine due to :

Really, I haven't noticed  :awesome_for_real:

Yeah, that is a good step actually.

Now go away. Find a milf.

Also, Photek. Don't be emo. Girls don't really deserve information unless they ask for it. And even then, say as little as possible. I don't mean to single out girls, it just applies to this situation. Guys don't deserve it either. In other words, shut the fuck up too.

I know you're learning it.  I'm reassuring you that it's not in your head.  Some of us really are that way.

(Been called an ice queen a time or two, and I'm definitely unstable, so, yeah.)

...when you start having fucked up thoughts at my age like "Shit, I could actually live with this girl and I see a future"....

+

two to three months of dating.

Yeah, you are way over thinking this and putting too much pressure on a twenty year old woman.

Step back.  The worst thing you can do is push her to get married and/or pregnant.

I agree one hundred percent with anyone who says you should date an older woman if this relationship implodes.  You need to gain some perspective, because fuck, you are only 24.

 

Oban : I would never push her into anything like that, I'm not in a rush and deffo not ready for that shit, just saying I could see as a possibility.

Sorry it didn't work out, photek, but it just is part of the make up. Any girl that's looking for a stable relationship at 20....wachout, that one's a lemon. So <shudder> Schild is right and has said the correct thing here. About interpersonal relationships. You know, if -he's- right about interpersonal relationships, its gotta be a platonic truth stamped out in gold above the heavens.

So, it hurts, and maybe you're like me at that age, where I managed to mope about in angsty existential self-pity for months on end over some bint that ditched me at a tender age. If so, watch lots and lots of Blackadder.

Are you in the US or Canada?

Well, this, right?  But you already knew that because you already said it!  

And don't listen to a thing SnakeCharmer says.  He doesn't know anything.  I can't imagine how he ever got a woman.  Drugged her, I guess.  I also heard he smells like ass.

So there.

Nope, I'm in Norway. And I think I'm starting to see the picture and I will have to grow some massive balls and bite the facts as they are.

Actually, the last thing you need is balls. You're talking about a 20 year old here, obviously having gotten involved, what you need is brains. :oh_i_see:

OK.  Seriousness?  She's too young for seriousness.  She's too inexperienced (at life in general, not just relationships).  She's behind the curve.  She might be worth it later, but not now.  Do you really want to be her closed alpha test?

Once you reach your age, the whole 'girls/women mature faster than men' gets tossed out the window.  But yeah, you're too young as well.  Have fun.  Enjoy your youth.  Serious relationship is fine, just make sure that person is in the same place mentally as you.  Ditch the emo act.  Don't be this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkW5da-AFGo) guy.

Follow Stray's advice:  Find a milf.

Get out of that relationship.  Then bang her mom.

Seriously.

Just bang her mom. If the relationship continues after that, its an interesting twist.

If by interesting you mean "I want to play" then yes, I want to play.

Haha, this is awesome.

This is progress though. Your relationship with her is officially dead, in one way or another. Even if you DID seal the deal with her, and got married, had kids, one day, sooner or later, you'll be sitting around and feel compelled to fess up that you once entertained the idea of sleeping with her mother. And then she would leave you anyways. So.. it's good. You can just leave now.

But not without banging her mom, of course.

It's over, time to walk away.  You'll feel like shit. She'll feel like shit. You'll both wonder for years if it was the right decision. It was.

Find someone ready for the commitment, because she's not and you are. There's no such thing as a "soulmate" or "one true love" so divest yourself of the notion that somehow this will be worth it in the end.  You'll drag both of you down into the pits and waste time you could have spent looking for or in a better relationship.

You'll notice there's no naysayers here, either.  Married, single, dedicated bachelors, male and female alike are all saying, "get out."

I'm not saying get out.

It's certainly an option, and they may decide they need to go that route, but I don't think they necessarily have to end it either.  Taking a step back, letting each other breath and not putting undo pressure on one another, evaluating things, and going from there is all I'm recommending.

Yeah, you don't have to walk away, but give her some space. Pouring out your heart and soul after 3 months? Considering she could be 'the one'? Too much too fast. She's only 20 for fuck's sake. Stop being pushy and emo. Casually date, get the occasional booty call, and enough with the 3 part angsty sms messages. Loser.


Or, you could bang her mom.

This topic has taken an interesting twist  :awesome_for_real:

It's okay to listen to SnakeCharmer now but please don't listen to Samwise and my husband.  They're being really naughty!   :ye_gods:

Also - You're Norwegian and very young.  In a couple decades you can look forward to being cold and mostly drunk.  Enjoy your emo-ness while you're still a boy!  I approve!

Signe is wrong. Being emo is a sure way to doom all of your relationships.

None of which you will find here.

I might be right!  You can't be sure.  I think Schild might have been cynical even before he was born!

I'm definitely right. Unless he's looking for a depressing coddled princess that writes bad poetry.

Tale, I'm in desperate need of psychological evaluation also, at the same time, I would never ask f13 for help on such a thing. Photek should just bang her mom.

What is with you guys and banging your girlfriend's mothers?  That is just SO SO SO wrong!  Don't listen to them!  Stay sweet.

Well, honestly, I would just bang someone else's girlfriend's mom probably.

Am I the only person who think the girl is fine and it's him that is the problem?

A crazy, insecure 20 year old that doesn't know how to manage her own space? Yea, sounds like a girl to me. She's absolutely normal. No one is saying anything is WRONG with the girl as far as I can tell. Photek is just being emo.

Dammit, I'm agreeing with Schild.

Anyway, Message to Photek: Lighten up and enjoy the ride.   There is plenty of time left in your life for Serious Business.

I suggest fucking her in a very uncomfortable place.

And to keep anyone else from being dumb and saying something predictable - NOT in the backseat of a Volkswagen.

Yeah. Because then they'd completely be fucking up the reference.  It's a Yugo.

O RLY

(That's code for dude, what the hell are you talking about?)

Sounds like she just needs space. Twenty years old? She's still just a kid. Sometimes girls are afraid of losing their individuality when getting into a serious relationship for the first time.

edit: By 'just a kid' I don't mean she isn't ready for something serious, just not experienced.

 Dragnet (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092925/) with Tom Hanks and Dan Aykroyd.   They get a Yugo issued to them and that line's used as a joke. :drill:

Heh.

Great, so two movies use the same sort of line. Anyway, point being, if ya'll are getting together again (being Photek and ladyfriend), make that time uhhhh "worthwhile."

Everything I needed to know about relationships I learned from Leykis 101.

Point being... hit and quit 'em.

I second this. 

The vast majority of women I know need to go through stages of relationships before they hit the point where they're ready to settle down.  If she hasn't gone through a six month period where she fucks everything that has a penis, she's not emotionally ready to settle. 

Don't hang on to it, move on.  Tell her you're better than being second best and wish her well in her life. 

Bollocks.  I never went through anything like that and I'm a perfectly normal woman!  God.  What a bunch of crazy men around here!

In the pooper?  :oh_i_see:

Overt menstruation only seems that long.

A) Stop with the pouring your heart out shit. Jesus fucking Christ. Just stop.

B) Remember you are banging a TWENTY year old! Dont fuck this up by being emo, see step A above.  When you are old like me, you will look back fondly on the fact you were at one time fucking a tight bodied TWENTY year old...and be completely pissed at yourself if you fucked this up due to being emo.

C) If you meet hotter 20 year old dump this one and start banging new one. If not dump her anyway once you get bored and start banging her mom.

D) Post pics!

I can not roll my eyes enough at this thread!  The concentration of dumb luck must be astronomical on F13.  I can imagine no other reason the vast majority of you ever got laid. 

Oh man. This thread makes me lol.

Bang her sister. Worked for me. Nothing like a good 'ol sibling rivalry over your wang.

I'm starting to wonder if they have.  It sounds like high school bravado. :-P

You're anything but normal.  And I mean that in the best of ways.   :grin:

Twenty year old me would have done this same shit, posting in a forum about my feelings.  Now, after 10 years of marriage at 33, I'd go with 'fuck her in a bad place' and call it a day. 

You're putting the pussy on a pedestal. 

Blame the developers for doing it wrong.

Or sit around the locker room telling you to bang MILFs.

It's the established protocol.

Look, whatever happens please to be posting here to tell us about it, k? Cos this has turned into a highly entertaining thread  :awesome_for_real:

What the hell is this ?

I've read your little sob story and you've been dumped by someone who doesn't know how to dump.  When you're 40 and fighting cancer, you can look back at it and laugh.

Fuck Sake.

I will do so. I'm going to meet her now as I told her we needed to talk. She told me she wanted to take a walk with me cause the weather is so beautiful after sending her an SMS of "This shit doesn't work anymore, we gotta talk and settle it". The fuck ?

We've all forgotten about the Seinfeld solution to this problem?  Suggest involving another girl.  She'll either end it (which sounds like its going to happen anyway) or things will get interesting.  If you don't want to risk that she'll say yes (for whatever reason), suggest involving another guy.

Remember, convoluted schemes that involve misrepresenting your sexuality are better than straightforward, honest breakups. 

She probably assumes you want to change the parameters of the relationship rather than end it. So she wants to take a walk to talk about how she feels confined and wouldn't it be great to take it easy for a bit. The usual quasi-breakup.

If that is the case, let her run with it, thinking it was her idea. No reason at that point to try and own the idea of breaking up with the hipshot "hey, I was gonna tell YOU that!!" Salt and wounds and all that.

Good luck today man :-)

Well, we know how that turned out. In the future, make sure you specify which GENDER to bring to a threesome  :ye_gods:

While Photek keeps chasing her, she can make the decisions.

When he wants to end it, she'll realise she wants him.

Text her back saying, "Whatever.  I'm busy.  How about some other time?"

And then just don't talk to her for a while.  Go to a bar and just start blathering to a girl there, don't try and pick her up, just yak away.

You'll feel better and you'll realize that one relationship here and there isn't anything to freak out over.

Also, if it doesn't work, I'm doped up on morphine.   :awesome_for_real:

edit: As others have said, she's 20.  Let her go have some fun, she has no clue what she wants yet.

Confirmed. Just came home from the walk, at first she told me the message I sent her made her think and then I said "this ain't working anymore, I can't go on like this being all stressed out all the time not knowing what you want. If you don't know what you want after all I've done for you I think we should move in separate directions". Talking back and forth she told me she knew she had been acting cold and distant and then had a conversation like this, ca :

Her : "I have always been spoiled and used to getting what I want and you are the first standing up to me. I get distant and cold when things don't go my way."
Me : "Well, that is your problem. You can't always get what you want, especially in a relationship. I don't like playing games (lol] and we have to meet halfway and you gotta swallow your ego and bite the sour apple and accept that you can't have what you want all the time. I don't get what I want all the time and there are several occasions where I just let shit slide and so should you at times. And you can't let that shit pour on me when stuff don't go your way all the time."
Her : Can't remember the conversation, but she was sad and told me I was right and she would change for me and put an effort into it.

Was kinda a sweet talk and good to at least move over this obstacle. For now  :why_so_serious:

I'm a patient guy. EDIT Or a fucking moron. Time will tell.

So she's hot and spoiled. Here's your secret weapon:

Ignoring her.

It will drive her batshit insane. She's being weird? Don't engage, ignore.

Tested and confirmed today actually. Oh man, this is epic. I found my GF's kryptonite.

Don't say things like that, he'll think it's true.

Ya, uhm, photek, what happened to the whole 'she's dumping you' thing? Is that somehow now not true?


Sounds like you DID pull a Seinfeld. Sorta.

That's every girls kryptonite. You thought they were insane before?

Pfah.

It's true to a point.

Especially for a first-real-relationship thing.

Also, women aren't crazy. They just have different priorities.

It's possible to be both.

No, we're crazy with differing priorities.

Of course most of you are crazy, too, so it'd be a wash were it not for differing crazies.

I think he was referring to women that have not chosen your side.

I mean most women. The Sapphic Sisterhood really isn't that different in my experience. Apart from the ones who hate you for being a man. That's always awkward.  :grin:

Some people are more fractured than most, but on the whole we generally all want to be happy and want to be with people who don't bore us. It's the ways we attempt to reach those goals that are the interesting parts.

I've always found the underlying problem to be that most girls, or the ones I've dated, want to combine your lives together. That does not fly with me. Course, once again, college. Seems like the real bright girls are to be found on a campus...

Going by this thread only,  when men come of age, they are silly and confused.  As men age, they seem to get sillier and more fickle, and their views of women become distorted and bizarre.  At least most of the men in this thread.  Going by the opinions and advice in this thread, F13 men are the new women.  I don't think you guys are the norm.  In fact, I'm pretty certain you're not.  Some of you need to be pinched really hard, too. 

I thought this applied to pretty much everyone. Although you can just yank out "of women" from the second sentence.

The word you were looking for was jaded.

How many 20 to 40 something men do you know in real life?

Hey, I've only recommended hanging out with older women. Despite joking around a little, I am serious. If you can find maturity in someone your own age, even better probably.

I know lots!  Ok, well, maybe most of them are over 40 now but they used to be under!  And I know you - you're 20 - 40!  Of course, you just simply hate girls so I'm not quite sure how to take some of your opinions.  Still, I plan to fix you some day.  You are SO going to marry my one non-gay cousin!  Srsly.  She's just like you.  Only a gril.  The fact that her name is Erika just makes me laugh and laugh!

wat

Well, my gay cousin is already in a relationship.  For nearly a decade now.  Also she's not a gamer or cynical or anything at all like you.  Just don't think about it!

I don't even know what you're talking about.

We had this same conversation six years ago.  Your long term memory sucks.

Women  :awesome_for_real:, see above for proof.

Don't worry, it's a well-known and proven fact that Eric loves grills.

I'm more likely to remember what I ate 6 years ago.

Fo'rizzle.

I totally want to go grill something right now. Out in the snow. Just for the fuck of it.

Who's with me?

Meat + Fire =  :-)

Meat + Fire + Snow =  :drill:

I am. BBQ on the snow is fantastic. Regular thing here in Norway actually.

I think I see a new plan for your future forming here. Go forth and be healed by the magic power of snowmeat!

If I had a choice between roasting meat over an open flame in the snow or repeatedly fucking a twenty year old Norwegian girl, there would be no contest in my mind.

That is a false dichotomy, sir!

Yes, maybe you can fuck her on the snow while roasting meat on an open fire?

Sorry to be so vulgar, but  :drill:

I grilled burgers just last night, it hit 45 here and most of the snow melted!

I lost one burger to the skunks under the porch, looks like hibernation time is over so I made an offering as they kept peering around the corner at me. Tomorrow I'ma grill salmon I think.

BBQ wins?

You are the one responsible for all this global warming malarkey!

The guys here touting the party line of hookups and frat wet dreams are just doing the job appropriate to the situation. Photek walked into the proverbial bar during Monday Night Football and asked the room what to do about his gf :awesome_for_real:

How many threads do we have about pecs and butts?  :grin:

We should start some.

People (both men and women) act stupid because they are just too desperate to be in a relationship.  People need to first learn to be comfortable in their own skin before they can be in any kind of a healthy relationship.  

Something to be said for learning the hard way though.

Besides, it's sort of entertaining from a distance. :)

From my experiences, nerds are the most passive aggressive bitches you are going to find anywhere. Especially when it comes to relationships.

Aren't most things ? :) Oh well, I'm really going to put effort into this to last and will take it casually and laidback as many has suggested and cut the /emo. Thing is I'm totally aware of my emoness and the ability to attach myself to women, those few I have attached myself to, have ended in a weird way. 3 and a half year relationship -> she breaks up -> months of emo -> years of not seeing eachother -> meeting again and becoming best friends through the last three or so years.

Oh, I didn't actually mean you. Heh. Sorry about that. Being emo is fairly normal. By entertaining, I meant more along the lines of watching girls getting in fights or something. Heh

Ow hah, I think I understand. If I was watching from the outside I think I'd find my situation a bit entertaining as well, at least a bit  :why_so_serious: This IS the internet after all!

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone goes through what you're doing, at least once. I have. Some people do it a lot, and only learn much later. It's not a big deal though, don't sweat it.

As for ignoring her to grab her attention, I'll tell you this, if your thing with her is founded on games like that, and manipulating the situation to get "her to like you more", that relationship will still eventually be seen for the bullshit it is. It's good to feel something for someone -- don't let any jaded person tell you otherwise. That's bunch of bullshit. But it's got a be a two street you know. Stop fucking around. Just leave. Go on with other things until you find someone whose feelings are mutual. Save your games for something else.

I disagree with the statement to stop fucking around, he is 24 and needs to fuck around a bit more.  Otherwise, I agree with most of what others have posted.

The worst thing you can do is play games with someone younger than you.  Not only will your relationship be based on manipulation and lies, but you would have also screwed up the younger person's life.

Be a man.

So am I right in assuming that noone's mum got banged here?   :heartbreak:

Why would anyone seriously want to cause long term psychological and familial relationship damage by fucking a significant-other's relative?

You're hanging out with the wrong brand of nerd, nerd.

I dont intend playing games with her nor be manipulative in any way (though I am somewhat manipulative in nature), just need a solution for her instant moodswings, I'll just leave her alone when that happens, hence "ignoring" her. I really like the girl otherwise I would never spend this much time on her. I realize I might be her closed alpha test and as I am the first, but she is willing to try and I am dedicated to this. As you said "It has to be a two-way street".

for teh lulz

You don't need a solution, you need to drop her like a bad habit. She's 20 man, 20. That should've stopped you to begin with. Though, maybe, when you were 20 you weren't that close to many girls, which would explain your actions in the first place.

Age of 19->22 = World of Warcraft. Only random hookups. Did I miss something ?  :ye_gods:

I think we found the problem.

Fucking Blizzard. Can I sue them for this ?

Nah it was written as a joke, I actually had chicks around me, but no serious relationships during that period. Oh wait, I had one while living on campus in a town called Bergen with a chick who goes under the alias Barbie. She used to wait for me to finish raiding before we met during days. Oh the time  :heart:

Picture of Barbie and that dude is NOT me. PS : She was even older. Thinking about it, I have no idea how I pulled it off, kinda just like now :why_so_serious:

 http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v311/72/115/721430532/n721430532_4173096_2004.jpg

Bergen is where my family is from!  Well, just outside.  But she couldn't be related to me.  No one in my family would ever call themselves "Barbie".

Awesome! I am completely in love with that town, everything from Hardanger to the coast actually. I'm positive she ain't related to you, just the entire thing of setting a compromise like "I raid from 18:00 to 23:00, sometimes later, Ill come over after" and she waiting for me EVERY single day (lived like 5 rooms down my hallway) was kinda win.

What's up with the tan in a can?

One of her few shitty habits, along with the freaky Barbie obsession and having to fuck in a pink dormroom, she was pretty decent. Not the best looker, but for gods sake... Waited while I raided, how could I complain about shit like this ?  :awesome_for_real:

Obviously you lied when you said you've had many *long term* relationships, if you that was true you'd know what to do here.   

Probably what is happening is if she has a messed up history she is resorting to pushing you away, (she may not know how to have a close relationship with a male figure) and, she could be scared and not sure what to do in a relationship (double so if this is her "first" one).  She thought it was fun getting serious but now she too is thinking What next? She does not know what to do, so instead of dealing with those new feelings at such a young age it is easier to push you out and find the next guy to get warm first date fuzzies with.

You can... ride it out and not care have fun while you can, you can try to work past her feelings of being scared, or you can walk.

The hardest choice is trying to work past her feelings of uncertainty, you are more likely then not going to get burned in the process or you may end honestly end up being "friends"  but  for you to be the first guy to work with her through those feelings and end up on the other side with her forever the odds are slim,  triple so both of you being the age that you are.

Either way you go treat her with respect and the open communication that you'd want, if she fails to live up to your standards (or a level of standards you are willing to compromise to ) it isn't going to work.   

So call her out on her actions and ask her what is going on, sane women like to talk ( and cry a little)

Sanity should not be judged on the basis of being able to communicate at society's lowest standard.

On that note, insane women probably talk and cry a lot more than sane ones. Insane guys also. Except the quiet ones, but I just assume they're serial killers or serial killers in training.

Just want to say I love this thread.   :heart:

???

Life's hard. Especially once you turned 20...

Met a few philosophy students from there at a joint conference last year. Sadly moving universities means I miss out on going back there for when they host it, though by all accounts an awesome place to. Also this thread is just the right mix of :uhrr: :ye_gods: :drill: and :awesome_for_real:

I'm here, aren't I?  :grin:

Bastard woman hater.  You forgot  :drillf:!  Some of us  :drillf: are here too, you know. 

I have my own brand of understated misogyny :grin:

As a veteran of the kind of relationship you're talking about: She's already "lost" to you. It's not obvious yet because she's basically dithering about it but she's moving on emotionally. Frankly, when you opened yourself to her, and started thinking about long term stuff, you scared her. The more you try to pull her in, the more she's going to push you away. You might be able to salvage this by taking a big step back but I doubt it. Sorry, but I was there several times in my 20s and I recognize the symptoms.

Geez y'all are jaded and cynical.

This is 100% spot on.  Been there, done this as well. 

These are the woman that you write off and then call you out of the blue two years later. 

In this case it's from experience. What he's writing about literally happened to me in my early 20s. I mean, change the names, and a few minor details and I lived this.

I have more reason to be jaded than anyone (and I definitely will not get into it), and I'm still not that jaded. A little numb maybe though.  :oh_i_see:

I'm not saying things can't progress that way (I was one of the ones to tell him to back off, which worked), however it's not unsalvagable either.  He just needs to learn from his mistakes and ours, and they might get through this together.  Maybe not.

Saying it's doooooomed though strikes me as premature, especially since they've already had a talk and people were willing to admit to character flaws from the begining.  Any couple which is able to talk, able to admit mistakes, able to self-analyze, and is willing to re-evalute as needed already has a leg up on most relationships, even the long term ones.

I think you're missing the main point, Lantyssa; he should not WANT to have anything long-term to do with a 20 year old. Period. Its a developmentally untennable situation. She needs ~2-3 years of bopping about before any man 'bears his soul' to her.

This guilt-trip he's laying on her about her being selfish or spoiled is misguided at best, but seems nasty and cruel to HER.

That would be becaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaause


you're a woman.

That's silly. I know women who would disagree with her too. Everyone's different.

Was that the time you learned firsthand about novocaine not being an acceptable substitute for Everglide?

Just to add,

10 years from now you will look back and say to yourself "JESUS FUCK WHY COULDN'T HAVE JUST KEPT MY MOUTH SHUT AND FUCKED HER SILLY FOR LIKE 3 YEARS?"

Yep.

Haha very true. It's always better to regret things you DID rather than things you DIDN'T do. Better not to regret them at all, but hey, shit happens.

Photek - the only advice I can give you is to ignore everything* in this thread and do what you feel is best.

It may work out - in which case, well done. (TBH, her age or relationship experience isn't an issue - you're both relatively young and you can both learn about life together and that may well be a fantastic experience. Some of the happiest couples I know have known each other since they were kids and never had a relationship with anyone else. It can work.)

It may not work - in which case you can learn from your experience.

It may work out and then you meet someone else who you want to be with and then you'll be back here asking us what to do again - in which case you'll still learn from your experience.

The only person who can tell you what to do is you. You may get it right first time. You may fuck up more than once and you may get fucked up more than once.

Learn from it.



*Which kind of puts you in a paradox because if you ignore everything then you'll have to ignore this too which means you'll need to pay attention to everything and... never mind.

We'll see. At that age, this talking stuff works. For about a month. Then the cycle begins again. Yeah, I guess I am cynical about his chances, but like I said, it's from being there. I went through a stage immediately after where I convinced myself women only like assholes. Due to my wonderful wife I can now admit I was wrong. Women mostly like assholes.

Great thread!

I'll toss in my 2 cents. FWIW, im 37, divorced (9 years, was final yesterday!  :awesome_for_real: )

1. Decide what you want from a relationship.
Heck, write it down! It sounds like you guys had fun when you first met, but once it got serious she freaked. Think about how you like to treat a partner and how you like to be treated.

2. Write this in shoe polish on your bathroom mirror:
I CANNOT CHANGE OTHER PEOPLE, I CAN ONLY CHANGE MYSELF
You know what you want from her, but she isn't giving it. This is not because of you, it's because of her. Pat yourself on the back. You bang hot chicks, then have the emotional maturity to develop a deeper relationship. She doesn't. Start looking for another hot chick.

3. Think hard about whether she is capable of giving you the relationship you want.
It sounds like you have been a standup guy the whole time. Many women like men to open up to them, and if you like opening up that's great. But this one is freaking out. She is not gonna change, at least not quickly. She needs to mature perhaps, but she may always be a drama queen.

4. Be nice, friendly, a shoulder to cry on, but start distancing yourself from her.
You don't have to be unkind to break up. Just tell her you want a deeper relationship and are going to find one. Tell her you will always care about her and want to be friends. If it ends gracefully, because you show maturity and compassion for her, you never know what might happen. She *might* change, but probably not. You will always have a relationship with her as an Ex, try to make it a good one. Maybe down the line when she grows up a little you two can re-connect. You will have a good history with her that can pay dividends down the road.

This thread seems to have brought out the talking assholes. I don't even think some of you are kidding around.  Geez.  I'm rather surprised at apocrypha for agreeing with slog's tired old bollocks.  The others who agreed?  Not surprised at all.

Fuck and spend money.

The rest will fall into line.

I am certain that most of us over 30, know exactly what you should do and wish we would have listened to others when we were 24 ish. The solution is easy, but expecting you to be able to accomplish this is asking a lot. I know how I was at 24.

At 20 and with her lack of experience in relationships I can tell you that what you are doing now (telling her how much you care for her, lavishing her with attention, et al daily) is actually hurting the situation. You do not think you are smothering her, because you WISH she would do this to you, but you are and it will only hurt the situation.

Keep three things in mind:

1. You being a little more distant and giving her some space WILL speed up HER resolution that she either does or does not want to be in a relationship with you. This is hard for you because you do not want to take any chance that she will not choose to be with you. However what you are doing will only hurt your chances. You have to give her time to miss you and think about you.

2. Even the nicest and sweetest women are effected by the "want what you cant have" syndrome. Some more than others, but its effect will help you determine her true feelings. Feelings that even she is probably not sure of.

3. You have to realize and be prepared for the possibility that she, in the end, will not want to be with you. You cannot control this as much as you would like to and your efforts can actually serve to push her farther away. There are lots of internal and external factors that include family, friends (who at 20 play a bigger part for a women than you know), the possibility of an attraction to someone else or just the possiblity that she does not want to be in a relationship.

The bottom line is that you have already made it clear that you care for and want to be with her. She has all the info on you to make a judgement. The fact that she is asking for time should be your clue. Give it to her if you really want to know how she feels. You are not giving her a chance to see how she feels without you. Your best approach would be to reiterate that you care for her in a calm and confident manner and then let her know that you are there if and when she wants to talk but not get overly sappy or emotional. Women do not want that at the start of a relationship.

They want confidence.

She will know in a few weeks how she really feels and if she wants to be with you, she will let you know. In the end, realize that the chances of a 24 and 20 year old growing old together and finding true love are not great, in fact you will probably lament feeling the way you do 6-12 months after you stop seeing her if things do not work out.

Trust when I say this... most if not all of us have had an almost IDENTICAL situation (or two) and chances are 99% that she is not the one :)

You know, if I was this lassie and I read this thread, I'd castrate you Photek.

And then Dump You.

*Shrug*. I'm male, I'm approaching 40, I know a lot of people in their late teens & early 20's who all have sex lives 10 times more interesting than mine now, let alone when I was that age. I'm feeling the sting of missed opportunities.

I got into "serious" relationships far too early in life and all it got me was a crap sex life and a messy divorce. I just don't like seeing other people making the same mistakes I made  :why_so_serious:

Is there an option where you castrate someone and stay with them?

Kids these days are use to recounting the intimate details of their life on the internet.

I went to a joint conference once. It was all a rouse, there was no weed there. There certainly would be at a philosophy one.

Ruse ?

Indeed.

No, a rouse.  Righ was using a fancy word for flushing from cover.  The whole thing was a sting and he spent weeks in the pokey afterwards.  Tell us all the story!

Sure.  It's called a vasectomy.

My only point was that young people spend way too much time agnoizing over things that don't matter.  In 15 years or so he will realize this an kick himself.  This guy just needs to chill.

I wasn't expecting him (or any other 24 year old) to act on my advice.   This is the kind of stuf you just have to learn for yourself.

Um...


Actually, let's not go there.

Photek:

World population is around 6.9 billion people, slightly more than half are male.  So lets say that puts the female population around 3.4 billion.

Getting advice from jaded 30 somethings is probably not your best bet.  And hearing “in ten years you will look back and laugh” is shitty (but true) advice no matter what age you are.

My 2 cents? Live, learn, grow, and realize that there are 3,400,000,000 other fish in the sea for you to meet.

Funny, I was gonna say marriage. Ba dum ching!

That was going to be my joke too.

With a dry cool wit like that, I could write a second-rate sitcom! :grin:

My 2c...

Just keep hanging with her and having fun. Lighten up. Fuck a lot.

If it stops being fun, and she becomes a headache go hook up with another chick. Since being divorced 3 months ago I have been talking to 4 different chicks, I don't promise em anything and just enjoy their company/sex or just hang out. I'm 29, I feel like I'm catching up for what I shoulda been doing at 24. I'm not saying this is healthy behavior either (and not the easiest on the pocket book), stick with a couple or one at a time if ya want.

Stop giving a fuck. Since that happened women have been easy. Have fun, enjoy your twenties and if you fall upon real , reciprocated love .... go for it. I won't hate so much on 20 year olds as everyone else...probably cause I'm hooking up with one. She is pretty down to earth and is a lot of fun. Would I get in a serious relationship with her? Fuck no.

I'd go with Slayerik's advice.

Like I said, ignoring her is the secret weapon. And if it fails, at least you didn't go out like an emo baby.

I think you are being unfair to the older guys who just aren't expressing themselves politely. Allow me to try... and if I fail forgive me for being a crude and barbaric jerk.  :oh_i_see:

I'm 37. I've been married since 1995. I married a woman in her early 20's who was ready to marry (as evidenced by it working) and she was a lot of fun to be with then. She's still younger than me (29 last time I checked  :awesome_for_real: ) and a lot of fun to be with now. She is my partner, and we make a damn good team that can get shit done, raise a family, and still have time to pretend we have time to be romantic. While it's not the stuff of movies, we aren't plagued by zombies or giant robots so I think we are doing something right and have a good thing in trade for the lack of Hollywood's false dreams.

I'm older, more mature, and know a hell of a lot more about life and women than I did when I got married. That maturity, and time with a woman has given me a lot of insight on women that I never had when I was a single punk. Single guys rarely have the chance to really understand the opportunities they have in front of them with single girls and relationships. Which is why so many tall tales start with "If I could go back to high school... I'd get a lot more action!"

We would. We know more, too much probably, which is part of the plan socially. At some point in the lives of men who dated a lot of women in their time (dated, not slept with) they realize just how many more of them they could have had but failed to because they didn't understand the incoming signals. How many times did you, or any other girl you knew really hit on a guy and have him absolutely not notice? It wasn't because he didn't like you (well, maybe he didn't, but some of them did) it was because he was oblivious to your signals.

Older men pick up on the signals better, which is why many divorced men date younger women. They have a savvy that younger men lack. Its compensation for grey hair, baldness, and a gut. The young guys have health and potential fitness, the old guys have potential wealth and the ability to see the signals a woman puts out... better than the young guys at least.

So we circle back to our errant hero here... He's dating a 20 year old, probably is blind with love for her, and he's freaking her shit out because he's at a different place than she is in life. He asks for advice from a bunch of older men. Their brain processes his situation and arrives at the following conclusions:

• She's not ready for the relationship he wants.
• He's triggering her avoidance reaction because he expresses that he cares so much.
• The odds of this working for him in the long run are extremely low.
• He is much more likely to get dumped, slowly and painfully, until he realizes it and walks or she gets really direct and says "...just friends... need my space... etc."
• Our hero could probably use a few more relationships too, he's a bit too willing to sacrifice himself and does not see it.
• Sex with 20 year olds isn't as fun as it is with grown women, but their bodies are fun to play with if you can keep them quiet long enough to enjoy them.

Noting all that, a doomed relationship and a knight errant on a fools quest... the best advice is to tell him to try to enjoy the ride but be ready for it to end abruptly. Add in the level of comfort and coarseness here at f13 (it's not 4chan but still...) and what people post is:

"Fuck her, her mother, her sister, and her dog if she has one. Then leave them all."

What anyone reading between the lines to ignore the machismo and humor will see:

"Dude, life is too short! Have some fun! The odds of this working out are pretty damn low, and while I wish you the best, you should really just focus on having a good time with her and enjoying what she has to offer. Even if that means you slowly come to accept that it's doomed. If it works out and I'm wrong, you will have enjoyed the ride to a very good place. If it works out that I'm right, you will have enjoyed the ride and can walk away at the end with no regrets. Either way, enjoy the ride, creating misery isn't a good way to live."

Sure, you have to read between the lines, and it's easier to say "You are all a bunch of pigs and have confirmed my thoughts about you." but to be honest, I'd tell a young girl the same thing. She should enjoy the ride and have some fun, at that age the ride is much more important than the destination.

Hell, at my age, the ride is what matters. I can't control what is going to happen in my life, but I can at least try to enjoy the ride with my wife and make something good of it with her.

Doesn't that make sense? Does it really matter that they just said "Fuck her and run?" to be internet cool? I don't think so. :)

...and thus ends my overly long random post for the month. ;P

...

Yeah, that's exactly why.

 :why_so_serious:

Probably the most sense I've read anywhere all week. I think you should get out of that dodgy Sony company and start writing relationship guidance books  :awesome_for_real:

I meant they are successful at it despite being older and divorced. TBH I don't know why any young hot chick would want to date me if my wife left me, but I'm confident I could land a few. My assumption is because my ability to pick up their signals is much improved even if it does me nothing. :)

To be fair, I wouldn't tell anyone to fuck the dog, even if they had one. Maybe... spray paint the dog. Especially if it's a yippy little fucker.

I don't know. Not to say that an older, married or divorced guy doesn't know things, but something as simple as growing up with a good sister or mom helps too (a good mom or sister in the sense of telling you the truth. Not silly momma's boy shit). Or a dad who has been around the block. Having some insight about the opposite sex is supposed to happen a helluva lot sooner than some post-divorce dating phase, I'd think!  :grin:

Anyhow, I definitely don't long for highschool. My situation probably couldn't be any better than it is now. Highschool would only be nice in the sense that I can be lazy, and at school, people are everywhere. You gotta put yourself out there when you're older, but that's it.

Did Stray just imply he picked-up both his sister AND his mom?

 :grin: :why_so_serious:

[edit] Bah! I have no response to that. :grin:

I haven't read this thread at all beyond this page but my advice is to buy a silver pen and some black paper then use them to write terrible poetry. That always works.

This is good, but I just wanted to add that we older guys know that we won't listen to us anyway because he's young and stupid. 

That stuff might help, but if you don't think you'll be better at picking up on signals and other non-verbal cues in another 5-10 years you're kidding yourself. Unless you're totally oblivious now and forever.   :awesome_for_real:

My only contribution was that I saw the thread title and thought someone realized they were gay. In that respect, this thread disappoints.

It's not older men alone, it's men who just fucking pay attention.

Hell, an 8 year old boy wrote a book (http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Girls-Alec-Greven/dp/0061709999/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234403974&sr=8-1) on picking-up women*. It's not fucking rocket science, people. We were doing it long before language, much less culture and our Emo need to over analyze every goddamn thing.

* Note said kid is on Leno tonight.

Personally, I don't need to do anything. I'm just fucking lush.



/going for broke here, don't mind me

I think that anyone, regardless of age, physical appearance, gender, sexual orientation, whatever, can get laid.  If you can't, you're just really really lazy.  There are men who fall in love with sheep.  There are women standing in line to marry serial killers.  Getting laid is mostly a no brainer.  There are tons of girls that Photek could simply bang and forget.  If he really likes this girl, why would he do that?  Even if there's no chance of a relationship right now, maybe there could be later.  Unless he just uses her like most of you suggest.  At least he did get some more sensible advice.

ANYONE CAN GET LAID!  Even you lot, which, I guess, just sounds more unbelievable than it really is.

I guess only he could answer that. I've been somewhere close before. In my own personal case, this kind of insistence came down to.. a sort of selfish liking, I guess. A little too much thought into what you think that person does for you or what you think they could do for you.. It's also happened to me a couple of times, and the girls didn't really know a thing about me.

reciprocity?

I beg to differ.  Some of us have really rotten personalities or are just plain ugly tree personified and have zero chance of ever getting laid.

Selby.. Meet Stuart ;)

(http://30daynephalist.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/stuart_smalley.jpg)

She has one of those too, maybe I will take you up on this  :why_so_serious:

So I just caught up with this thread and damn its full of insight and opinions. However, after our last conversation on Sunday where I told her "things can't go on like this", she actually called me on Monday wondering if I wanted to come over and help her do her math (integrals FTLl) and hang out and so I did. I took the advice from some around here and were far more laid back and I noticed she was really friendly and happy when I showed up and kinda went back to the days we met, stroking and cuddling, and really put an effort and listened to what I had to say. Shit was awesome and I spent the night. VICTORY!!

Morning after she made me breakfast (waffles and ice-cream FTW) and she was still on top of her attitude just like the day before and was actually happy, we went out to town, did some shopping and later that night we ate at the best steakhouse in town. Took her home and spent the night again. Day after was basically just as awesome where we got some serious talk in and she had given it some thought and really loved spending time with me and basically that shit was awesome right now. Summary : Being laid back and just enjoying the present really works great. I was too pushy and overwhelming and I can agree on that, but this really made a difference. Stuff has been going on like this now and I wont fuck this up with emotional psychobabble.

Thank you Dr.Phil F13 for saving my relationship.   :awesome_for_real:

Nah really, great advice from some of you, this thread should be changed to ATTN : Young Fools In Love READ THIS!

This thing

So no terrible poetry then?

I didn't say this.

Not before valentines at least  :heart: :heart: :heart:

The sentence should probably have read "which is why many divorced men are able to date younger women".

Saying that's why they do it just made me laugh.

They do it because of the really tight wee fannies.

At a guess.

Don't be ridiculous.  You don't have to have a personality.  You don't have be pretty, either.  You don't even have to smell nice.  People fuck fruit and vegetables!  Just get off your silly arse and ask someone!

She is right.

Case in point: Met a woman I worked with (actually supported with her computer) with a week ago. Felt a vibe, asked her out. Had dinner and fooled around a couple nights later. Last night we left work and went to a cheap motel and had sex five times (yes, really). It's just that easy!!! I don't have personality! I'm just good at faking it :) I don't wear deodorant, cause I think a man's scent can attract women. I am a sexy mofo though.

I don't remember it ever being so easy. Confidence, confidence, confidence.

Signe is right, anyone can get laid; it's just that some folks don't know how. ;)

I'm glad our young hero has figured out that enjoying the ride is the way to go. Grats man.

What is this vibe you speak of, and where can I find one?

Seriously though, as someone who has gone through college, the 'easy years', without any success..it isn't easy for everyone.  Just isn't.  Basically, if you're nervous or awkward in social situations and not strikingly interesting or attractive, you're in poor shape.*

*This should be somewhat predicated by the fact that I find banging unattractive girls to be a negative experience overall and not worth it.  However, of course one can get laid even with horrible interpersonal grace when the target is desparate enough that they will take anything they can get.

Shit man, it wasn't easy for me back then either...I did ok, but I was lacking confidence. Now I don't care. The worst thing that can happen is she might say no. Do little things to approve your appearance, not even that it so much matters but it might help self confidence. Buy yourself a new shirt, some jewelry or something. Smile more. Improve your posture.

Another basic thing I recommend for guys with no game, is to read "The Game" by Neil Strauss. Some guys might find it basic, but there were a couple very nice insights to the female (and male) psyche.

The number one thing I found out, and it may be from a Chris Rock routine but it is true, is that women really want a guy they can talk to. Just ask the right questions that allow them to vent about work, relationships, family, etc. And try to listen. They are impressed when you actually remember stuff from their talking marathons. The problem is when you are trying to remember which of the three said what. ;)

No doubt what you say is true.  Hopefully as I move on I become more zen about the whole thing.  Balancing desire with lack of desire is perhaps the ultimate thing to figure out.  I have too much desire, which leads to failure.  Of course no desire and I wouldn't give a shit at all.  But in some respect, not caring, as you mention, seems fairly essential.

Very few people are as unattractive as they think are. Unless they've got puss nearly squirting out of your face or something. Or there's a shitstain somewhere. Or they actually smell like shit. Or... they talk a lot of shit. I think some people can be way too hard on themselves. Not saying you're going to be a player (and half of that is if you even want to be), but anyone can clean up and get in better shape.

He actually touches on this in the book. You have to force yourself not to care. He says almost exactly what you said.... too much desire=failure

I can really look back now and think about how many times me being overly nice or trying to hard has fucked me. A different woman at work now showed interest (emailed me asking about the fact that I wasn't wearing my ring) so I have just been totally casual and not responding all fast and shit. When I do, I show little interest or joke about it, occasionally throwing in teases. Basically, I don't give a fuck. This has already got her to ask ME out, and wanting to go for walks and shit here. Maybe one of these days I'll grace her with my presense. lol

I read the first two pages and didn't bother with the rest so I don't know what derail you guys are on.  But my advice for the original question is...

...You're only 24 so that means if you're still getting laid on a daily basis just go with it.

I recommend this as a sure fire way to win her love, write it out on black paper per IainC's suggestion, amateurs use silver pens, pros use their own blood (or blood from a thawing steak if you are squeemish:


There's a little black spot on the sun today
It's the same old thing as yesterday
There's a black hat caught in a high tree top
There's a flag-pole rag and the wind won't stop

I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain

There's a little black spot on the sun today
(That`s my soul up there)
It's the same old thing as yesterday
(That`s my soul up there)
There's a black hat caught in a high tree top
(That`s my soul up there)
There's a flag-pole rag and the wind won't stop
(That`s my soul up there)

I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain

There's a fossil that's trapped in a high cliff wall
(That`s my soul up there)
There's a dead salmon frozen in a waterfall
(That`s my soul up there)
There's a blue whale beached by a spring tide's ebb
(That`s my soul up there)
There's a butterfly trapped in a spider's web
(That`s my soul up there)

I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain

There's a king on a throne with his eyes torn out
There's a blind man looking for a shadow of doubt
There's a rich man sleeping on a golden bed
There's a skeleton choking on a crust of bread

King of pain

There's a red fox torn by a huntsman's pack
There's a black-winged gull with a broken back
There's a little black spot on the sun today
It's the same old thing as yesterday

I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain

King of pain
I'll always be king of pain
I'll always be king of pain


Sting and the boys will be proud.

Seriously though, glad to hear some of the advice on this thread proved useful, cheers, and enjoy your saturday.

See? I told you good red meat would work.  :awesome_for_real:

Getting waffles, though, that's something. I had a waffle last Friday, although I don't remember it thanks to half a liter of schnapps. I suggest you reciprocate with flapjacks at some point in the near future. Or brownies if she's into sweets.

Waffles and pancakes are perfect, if you ever find yourself poor and homeless.

These are the things you realize during long sleepless nights that make you want to go back in time and kick yourself in the nuts repeatedly.

You're welcome.  :-)

7 pages and no pictures, what the fuck?

They've only just started going at it again - we've got to wait until Photek can start asking to take photos so they can remember their "special moments".  :drill:

And then the messy dumping so we can convince him to put them online.

with some pixellated faces of his while leaving his lover unedited.

Bravo!

I went back in time and kicked myself in the nuts repeatedly and it made me realize that the idea of going back in time to kick myself in the nuts was a stupid idea, and that I should go forwards in time and kick myself in the nuts repeatedly for thinking that. I am now trapped in a time loop, kicking myself in the nuts for eternity. FML

And Sisyphus thinks he has it bad!

Please don't kick yourself in the nuts. For the children! Literally.

Righ's never having kids so it's ok.