f13.net

Does one need a home firewall if:

1) you are running behind a NAT router
2) you always have windows firewall on
3) you regularly (weekly) scan for viruses

If so, what's the best recommendation?  I will not use McAffee/Norton. ZoneAlarm good enough?

I don't. I have mine turned off. Then again, I'm a "power user", scan fairly regularly and immediately notice if my machine starts acting strange. I'm of course behind a NAT, if you aren't you crazy.

AVG is decent freeware.

aye, but it's been distinctly flaky lately as well. I'll use ZoneAlarm.  AVG updates keep getting throttled and then restarted, not smooth.  I bought the full package for my parents, but my free copy was missing some virsues (in fact, I had to run the paid several time to catch existing viruses on my folks PC). 

For incoming TCP/UDP/IP attacks you don't need a firewall that blocks incoming attacks if you are using NAT cause you don't have any incoming ports always open unless you specifically opened one up yourself in your router configuration.

You might want something like ZoneAlarm (which I hate) that checks outgoing connections since that can notify you of some malcious piece of software "phoning home" or such. Unfortunately just about every fucking piece of software these days (okay maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration) tries to phone home even if they are non-online apps (e.g. to automatically check for updates) so that's potentially a lot of crap to wade though depending on how often you install new apps just for the chance to catch a piece of malware "in the act", so to speak.

Short answer:  Yes.

NAT is your best defense - and what Trippy said.  But its only decent if you pay attention to the messages.  People usually randomly click on said messages.

ZoneAlarm is nothing but an annoyance.

With NAT, as long as you don't designate your machine as the DMZ so all ports are automatically forwarded, Windows Firewall, a virus scanner, the occasional spybot/adaware check, and reasonably safe internet practices, you'll be fine. 

So, my DSL modem has NAT enabled, but then I have a second router, that has this setting:

      Filter Internet NAT Redirection

under the security tab. Is this the same as having NAT enable? I ask because it was 'off' by default.

No it's not:

http://forums.linksys.com/linksys/board/message?board.id=Wired_Routers&message.id=6629

So, essentially, it prevents other lan machines from accessing ports on other local machines through the local lan address, and forces them to use the wan address. Yes? I'm wondering if this is good additional security if, for example, someone manages to hack your wireless WAP2 security. Or is it only relevant if you're actively hosting a website on port 80 or some such?

whats a good spybot/adaware app?

I scan for adware and such using three different ones:  Defender Pro, Ad-Aware, and Spy-Bot. 

What one catches, the other misses.  Although it is a rarity for my gaming rig or work laptop since I don't visit 'questionable' websites.

My brain hurts because those are the names of the main two.

I use AdAware, Spybot and NoScript in Firefox.

Microsoft's online scanner:

http://onecare.live.com/site/en-US/default.htm

WHy all the hate for Zonealarm?  I've been using it for years with no problem.  When I got this computer that has Vista, I turned off the MS firewall and loaded ZA.

Its been a while, and i didn't know if the free apps have been able to keep up.

I just built a couple of machines and I'm using:

Spyware remover--
Spybot Search & Destroy (http://www.safer-networking.org/en/home/index.html) &
SUPERAntiSpyware (http://www.superantispyware.com/)
Both are the free versions.

Antivirus--
NOD32 Antivirus (http://www.eset.com/products/nod32.php)

Firewall--
Windows firewall.

I've thought about upgrading my NOD32 to the ESET Smart Security System (http://www.eset.com/smartsecurity/index.php) that includes a firewall or maybe Comod (http://www.personalfirewall.comodo.com/).

Before I quit, I run both anti spyware programs & the antivirus programs, then shut them down (well sometimes...).  So I feel pretty good about keeping out stuff even after visiting shopping and porn sites.

Has anyone used Comodo or Online-Armor (http://www.tallemu.com/online-armor-personal-firewall-software.html) or the ESET Security System?

Ok, normally you're just a guru, but I have a hard time with this one :  I ran it today to test and it's total pish.  Am I missing something ?  Slow and clunky and it provides next to NO information.  It told me I have 7 'things' wrong and that it fixed '6 things', but hey, I would kinda have liked more info...

Tell me I'm just being stupid.  I won't be surprised.

Yes it's painful slow (it's quicker if you just run the spyware scanner instead of the full "tuneup" suite) and the UI is horrid. However, when I ran it against my dad's machine that got seriously infected *twice*, it did the best job of finding and removing the real dangerous crap compared to the other free stuff I tried.

No single program will find everything, of course, so you should run a variety of programs, or just do it Aliens-style and nuke the damn thing from orbit -- i.e. reinstall Windows into a fresh partition (my dad's comp doesn't have recovery/rescue discs/partitions so I went the cleanup route instead).

Because it's given me nothing but headaches on machines used by other people.  Having random_user_01 click 'accept' to a bad IP or 'deny' to a needed one means I get called to figure out what they've done.  Then there are the times it just decides to block the network entirely, or the patch I loved which completely nuked networking even if you turned ZA off.

If it works for you, that's great.  I find it's overkill unless you need super-secure networking.  Super-secure networks tend to fall apart when exposed to everyday usage because humans get annoyed/forgetful/careless and leave larger gaping security holes than if you went with one that just worked without any notice to the user.  If you need AAA security then perhaps it's acceptable, but then you won't be using a freeware solution like ZoneAlarm.

I've been using ZoneAlarm for years but this is the last year. I constantly have to reset it back to the default because something keeps getting corrupted and it slows my computer down to a snail's pace on start-up and in opening new applications. I thought the HD was dying; turned out to be ZA.

Oh yes, I forgot my succinct answer:  If a computer has a problem and it is running ZoneAlarm, always turn ZA first and see if it works.  Usually it does.

I stopped using ZA a few years back specifically because of this.  I thought something was seriously wrong, but it just slowed to a crawl.

Thanks guys, I'll experiment with using something else to see if it makes my system faster.  I just loaded it immediately, out of habit, when I got this computer.

No-ones gonna mention http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/
?
Not really a firewall, but seriously... everyone should use it.
You'd be shocked how often the DoD pings you. Almost as much as the Chinese military.

I have been using ESET for about 4 months now. I was using Kaspersky on XP Pro, and when I upgraded to Vista I decided to try ESET. I love it. Its much less intrusive than Kaspersky, and so far I have only had one small problem with it, it got a false positive on downloading Fallout 3 from steam, which wouldnt have been a problem if I had been at the computer, as it gives you 15 minutes to choose what to do, then it deletes the file. A quick google search turned this up when Fallout 3 wouldnt run.

Also, I dont know if it is ESET or Vista, but ever since I upgraded and installed ESET, I haven't got a single piece of Spyware, and I use Ad-Aware and Spybot.

4) Running windows update regularly is much more important than 2 or 3, and on a par with 1.

Personally I don't bother with a software firewall, but I might if I had other people using my PC and they were more inclined to download stupid shit.

I used ESET previously and found it to be very good; I dropped it when I picked up the full ZA suite.

Pleased to be explaining what a NAT router is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation

A router.

Zone Alarm is terrible.  You might as well put adware on your computer yourself.  Same thing for anything Norton.- complete garbage.

Norton and McAfee are some of the most intrusive and buggy sw I have ever used (and bought).  Absolute Rubbish.  I won't use ZA after the comments in here.

Anyone have any experience with AVG and its FW and protection sw?

Been using AVG's free a/v for about the last 2 years.  Never had a complaint with it.

I might install it at work if it keeps out complaints.

I've been using AVG for years too and the only problem I've had is having it get into the state where it made me reboot my machine every single time it updated. It was a bad temporary file and if I'd tracked it down and deleted it that would have solved the problem but it was easier just to uninstall and reinstall.

Hey that's happened to AVG on one of my machines. I just ignore it. "AVG needs to reboot. Reboot now?" Fuck off. Maybe I should bother to fix it...  :why_so_serious:

Old versions of ZoneAlarm sometimes had problems with torrent software, so I stopped using it a few years ago. Instead I use Sygate Personal Firewall (http://majorgeeks.com/Sygate_Personal_Firewall_Free_d3356.html) which is quiet, lightweight freeware and does the same thing as ZoneAlarm. They've stopped updating Sygate, but that doesn't matter - it still performs the same allow/deny program permissions function as ZoneAlarm.

Behind NAT and using Firefox with Adblock Plus and NoScript (like a firewall for javascript), with a legal copy of F-Prot Antivirus (quiet, light, cheap and just better), I feel safe.

Works the way it should - as in it keeps out infections and you never know it's there.

my 2 cents: Software firewalls are worthless. Anyone competent enough to write a virus/malware/adware is going to get around a software firewall pretty easily. You're best defense is to not get infected. Install AVG, adaware, Spybot search and destroy, they are all free. Never use IE. Use firefox, always click "No" to popups. Assume "Software cracks" always have a virus, even if they test clean. You should be fine. Oh yea, if your friends start sending you mass emails, tell them to stop. It's all pretty basic stuff.

Technically speaking all firewalls are software. What people like to call "hardware firewalls" are simply specialist computers running firewall software - Nokia firewalls run a stripped down BSD OS called IPSO that supports Checkpoint firewall code; Cisco PIX is an application set running on a specialist kernel originally called Finesse, for example. Further, just because a firewall runs on a general purpose operating system that doesn't make it worthless. It is likely to make it more complex to set up though. Everybody connected to the Internet should at least have filter rules on their router. As for host-based firewalls, I like having them, particularly on laptop computers that are going to get connected to other peoples' networks. Competent malware writers cannot bypass them with the ease that you suggest.

Host-side/software firewalls are not worthless. They make it easy to deny internet access to all those programs and parts of Windows that love to phone home for no good reason.