f13.net

I've got my eye set on a new laptop for University - for the most part, my requirements would be excel, and AutoCAD, and occasionally I do like to play a few games, but this laptop would be my main computer, as I do not have a desktop  :ye_gods:

The only laptops I have really looked at are the Macbook and a few Dell models like the XPS.  I do like the allure of the Mac, I've never used a Mac, I've been a PC user for life, but my girlfriend and most friends that have a Mac say they swear by it.

Any advice?

Thanks.

I *LOVE* my Mac laptops, I've had 3. I swear by them and they are usually my 'main' computer (although I usually have a gaming PC as well.)

That said you've just outlined 3 things the Mac doesn't do all that well. I am assuming you mean Excel, AutoCAD and Games and not generic or OS alternatives. Here's the thing - MS Office sucks ass on the Mac (it works fine, but is way slower than it should be), AutoCAD has never shipped an OS X native version and gaming, well, um.

IF you were planning on running windows via Bootcamp then yes it would work well. But why buy a Mac if your 3 primary interests don't take advantage of the platforms strengths?

Now if you'd said photo editing, video editing and UNIX Terminal work it would be very different....

You're on a gaming board asking if you should get a mac.

Anyone that says yes is lying and crazy and has more money than sense.

Edit: Especially ESPECIALLY if this is your main computer.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly... I'd be running Excel on Parallels, just because i know the Mac version of Excel is really not the best, which begs the question of why even bother?

The only thing attracting me to a Mac is the fact that I have the constant hassle of re-formating my laptop every semester as the processor somehow gets bogged down by random crap, or the occasional- who knows what from.

Well, I do like to walk the dangerous and scandalous path... spank me!

Wait. What now?

I love my Asus W3J.  Great build quality, and decent specs for its size/ weight even though I bought it a couple years ago.  A good place to start is here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/ (http://forum.notebookreview.com/)
They even have a specific forum to help guide you to a machine that suits your needs.

The copy protection in AutoCAD may preclude you from using it on a Mac, even under Bootcamp. You'll need to do some research to find out if it'll work or not.

Stop being a twat and buy a Dell.


You're welcome.

That reply killed me. :awesome_for_real:

If I wanted something for school or work, I'd buy a Mac.  If I wanted something for games, I'd buy a PC.  If I wanted something for both, I'd buy the PC and regret not buying the Mac.  We have both - PCs for games, Macs for everything else.  I don't do much of anything on a computer anymore but games so I don't fiddle with the Macs much.  Righ lives on them.  Even when he's playing a game on one of his PCs, his Mac is there... watching him.  

FIFY. You can play many games on a Macbook Pro if its booted into Windows (you'll need to buy a copy of Windows too) but you'll be making serious compromises and your upgrade option will be "start over". You can buy MUCH better non-Mac notebooks (never call them laptops) for gaming but you are still making serious compromises and your upgrade option will still be "start over". The real problem is that to play any games on a MacBook Pro, you have to reboot it into a copy of Windows that's installed on another partition - Parallels is not an option. No alt-tabbing to do the stuff you've decided to use OS X for. At which point you have a stylish, fairly well made but very expensive Windows computer.

Notice that I keep writing MacBook Pro. The cheaper MacBooks are junk based on your requirements.

If you are only going to have one computer and gaming is a high priority requirement, get a desktop system. If you're going to get a notebook as your only system, learn to love browsing the web, playing WoW or something less demanding than playing newer games.

Fuck it. You're going to Uni. Get the cheapest POS that runs AutoCAD if your lab work requires it and spend the change on beer and dating the hot little thing you met in the student bar.

(If you really must do it, USB dongles used by current versions of AutoCAD will work on a MacBook Pro that is booted into Windows, and will apparently even work to run AutoCAD under Parallels Desktop on OS X).

I'm a big fan of Mac laptops; in my experience they are extremely well built and their support is solid. I gamed on my last one quite a bit, and that was a G4 laptop.

Like others here, I use a Macbook Pro for work type stuff, and have a PC at home for gaming. I love the mac, I really do, and you can use Numbers which is the apple spread sheet program, or just buy the Mac version of Excel, but it is bloated.

For gaming, like the other said, its a Mac, you can get "some" games on Mac, including WoW if thats your thing. You can also boot to Windows, drivers can be slightly messy, but you can get it working.

The two things Macs don't do well is AutoCAD and Gaming. For everything else I prefer the Mac over the PC.

> my requirements would be excel

Anything works

>and AutoCAD

Isn't that windows only? I've got a mac as well, but I would never reboot all the time to switch between OSes. If you use windows, stick with windows. I use sleep / hibernate all the time, reboot once in a few weeks on patch Tuesday.

>and occasionally I do like to play a few games, but this laptop would be my main computer, as I do not have a desktop

Okay. You're toast. You *need* a laptop with at least a half decent video card, that rules out the MacBook / Air / most Dell cheap dells. The Macbook Pro's or the XPS line might work.

I game occasionally on my XPS M1330 (Nvidia 8400M GS), but it isn't really built for these kind of workloads - WoW is playable on a 1280w or 1680w external screen but you have to turn down shadows. Not good for a primary pc. The Macbook Air I have ships with Intel integrated graphic, didn't even bother to try. The 9400M ones might do better, but as far as I've heard they are slower than the 8400 GS's due to shared main memory.

In the end, it all comes down to your own preferences. Do you mind lugging around a 3-3.5kg brick?

No -> get a 16/17" desktop replacement. Any will do, Mac or PC, Dell or HP or whatever is on sale.
Yes -> you don't have much choice, the 2.2kg, 13.3" Studio XPS is one of the more portable machines with decent hardware inside.

I've got an XPS M1330 as my main computer.  I also have an ancient dell desktop, but it does everything worse than the laptop due to its being 6 years old.

Overall I'm really happy with the M1330.  I got it for law school.  I don't game nearly as much as I used to, so it meets my needs in that area pretty well.  The most intensive games I've run on it are probably either The Witcher or Fallout 3.  Both are quite playable, albeit with low-medium graphics settings.

I mainly use it for my schoolwork though, and it does just fine for that.  I carry it around pretty much every day, and I really like its portability.  The fact that it can handle the little gaming I still have time for is just icing.

Of course, I learned about the potential defect in the 8400M GS about a week after I got it.  Apparently they're prone to frying, at which time you need a whole new motherboard (which at least Dell replaces for free).  I haven't had any issues like that yet, although I've heard of plenty of others who have.  It's also possible that Dell/Nvidia have done something to correct the problem on laptops which are shipping now, but that's by no means certain.

Basically, depending on what kind of gaming you're looking to do, the M1330 might serve you well.  Just make sure to get a decent warranty on it.

I said it in the other laptop thread but I'll repeat it here. Dell's small business line blows away their consumer line for options and value. The Vostro (http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/vostronb?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd) is amazingly good value and I haven't found those specs at that price anywhere else.

Actually, I just priced a Vostro with the specs on my XPS (T8300 processor, 320 GB 5400 rpm HD, 8400M GS, 3GB RAM) and it came up with a price more than I paid a few months ago.

Depends on the games you want to play and your willingness to reboot into bootcamp to play them.  Of course all the blizzard stuff as well as Spore and even Call of Duty 4 rocks on a Mac.  Autocad will scream on a Macbook Pro in bootcamp.  Parallels the virtual machine software (latest version 4.0) runs even power hungry apps like ArcGIS 9.3 only 15% slower than bootcamp (and regardless of which you are using Parallels/Bootcamp, they share the same instance of Windows). 

I have one of the latest Macbook Pros from back in October with 4 gig of RAM and this is fucking great machine that lets me do absolutely anything I want.  With Leopard's "Spaces" feature I switch between 6 virtual desktops with ease (including WinXP and lately Windows 7).  It has two video cards in it that allow me to use only an onboard card to save battery life or both together for a serious graphics boost.

Anyone trying to say a Mac notebook can't hang with the needs of a power user, even a gamer, is highly misinformed.

Edit:  Not to mention some of the best support around not that you'll need it.

Having done Maya work on a laptop, I would suggest looking at 17" laptops, no matter what brand you go with. if it is actually going to be where you do a lot of your AutoCAD work you want every scrap of screen space you can get. The extra bulk is annoying at times, but IMHO it is definitely worth it if you use visual design tools.

Seconded.  My Mac Pro with Parallels will run 99% of the Windows apps I want with no issues at nearly native speeds.

In native BootCamp using the built in 9600M GPU, I can get Fallout 3 at 1280x800 at playable frame rates without
problems with most of the goodies turned on.  I think it evens runs ok at native panel resolution (14x9) in other titles as well.

I agree with some of the assessments above:  if you want a powerhouse gaming rig then get/build a desktop.  But don't be fooled:  you can
play most of today's titles at decent resolutions on a 15" Mac Pro, and the new aluminum enclosure is built like a tank.

Thanks for the advice everyone, constructive and not!  I will take this all into account when I'm buying a new computer!

I have to chime in on the imaging thing too. PS CS4 is almost identical on mac and PC. The mac version can finish some tasks faster on the first attempt but identical or nearly identical on subsequent tests. Not only that, you can get a much better Windows laptop for the price you would get a decent Mac Book. The imaging is waaaay better on mac argument is almost null now. PS runs great on a windows machine.   

As someone who uses AutoCAD 40+ hours a week, if you plan on being a power user then just get aPC-based laptop.  You'll have to fuck with so many settings, drivers, additional windows drive space for x-refs, scripts and add-on progs in addition to the customization that it won't be worth it if this is your machines primary purpose.  Load up on the ram, though, as newer versions are fucking memory hogs.

If you're just running it to fuck with things, go ahead and run the thing in a dual boot.

Also- whatever you do you want the ability to plug it in to two monitors.  There's so many tool palettes and addtional pop-up windows in AutoCAD these days that even one screen is tight on real estate.  I've got a single 1680X1050 monitor here at work and am a keyboard user instead of a hunt& clilcker and it's still way cramped.

Shot of my desktop after the spoiler. It's downsized, but you can see how I've got to keep the palettes all closed and odd-sized.  None of those toolbars are the standard bars, as I edit them and create my own using only the buttons I actually require or can't make shortcut keys for because they're macro keys. (And nobody's given the time to write scripts/ lsp files. )

 :awesome_for_real:

The only reason I'd get a Mac laptop would be for location photography. They're just too expensive for anything else and in my experience that's the only area where they're better than non-Macs, and even then only if you specifically use Capture One and Photoshop.

That said however I have been told that the Vista rendering engine now rivals Macs and if that's true (never used Vista myself yet) then I see no reason for buying a Mac at all, other than having more money than sense.

It's been null for years.

As the son of an engineer, I'll jump in and agree with Merusk, Autocad is all about screen realestate. If you ever have plans on venturing in to Inventor (which isn't a bad idea if engineering is in your future) then you are going to be looking at a system beyond anything a laptop can offer.

I briefly considered lugging my four year old Dell Laptop with me in to the class I just started. Then I saw all the youngins with their fancy paper thin, 2 lb, widescreen notebooks.

Yea, a pad of paper and a pen does me just fine.

If you are using a computer for photography (or any image work really), you need one with a decent screen with no shitty gloss effect. Very little else matters. The only difference between a Mac and PC is that Macs cost more, and give you the option of using Aperture, which is an expensive piece of shit you don't want to use anyway.

As an actual engineer in a prior life, this.

If autocad is really the thing for you, buy a cheap computer and the biggest Dell ultrasharp monitor you can afford.

My Macbook Pro runs Vista in bootcamp better than any PC I've ever had.  It does games really well too.  I would say pull the trigger if you have the money.  Macbook is good, but definitely nowhere near as powerful.  Run away from the air.

Never had an issue with the screen glossiness on macs, but then in studio lighting levels are very low anyway so there's not much to reflect and on location we always use screen hoods. Agree Aperture isn't great, but the mac version of Capture One seems much better than the PC one.

Also always found the image handling felt loads better on macs than on pc's - faster redraws, better handling of multiple large image files (when I say large I'm talking about medium format RAW files - 50 megapixel large). No idea why and like I say, I hear that's not the case with Vista but I've never used it.

I used to be a total mac hater but using them for pro photog work made me realise that there really was more to it than just tradition.

I love my Macbook Pro but I wouldn't game on it. If for no other reason than I'd have to plug in a real mouse!