f13.net

Between my wife coming to terms with the fact that her Macbook has less than half the memory she actually needs to open up Photoshop and import photos, me feeling guilty about installing games and other QuestionableWare on my work laptop, and the elder son trying to play Kongregate on a laptop that's 3 years older than he is, I've decided that the family Xmas gift will be a new PC for the dining room.  The rules are that it'll be cheap (<500) because nobody here needs to play CoD4 on max settings and it'll be quiet, because it's in the kitchen and nobody needs to listen to that wind tunnel shit when we're eating waffles.

This is what I've cobbled together on NewEgg, and I'm interested in any recommendations on improvements or warnings about doing something stupid.

Case	Rosewill R5604-BK (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147037)	60
Power	SILVERSTONE ST400 400W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256032)	30
Mobo	ASUS M2N68-VM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131355)	63
Proc	AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200 (2.7Ghz) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103210)	67
Memory	4 x 1GB GSkill F2-8500CL5S (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231143)	72
Graphics	MSI N9400GT-MD256 GeForce 9400 GT 256MB 128-bit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127388)	47
Drive	WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 SATA (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218)	75
Wireless	EDIMAX EW-7128G (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833315041)	20
Optical	LG Black 22X (CAV) DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136153)	26
Total		454

Obligatory: Cheaper and better to just get a dual core, isn't it?

At which point someone will either agree or disagree.

It is dual-core. 

You mean dual vs 64bit?  If I had to pick one, I'd go 64.  I just played LOTRO for 2 hours on my laptop and my CPU was pegged at 50% with shitty performance.  Why?  Because the fartknockers at Turbine can't figure out how to code multithreaded, so they can only use one of my cores.  And someday 64 bit software will actually exist.

The 9400 GT is a really really gimpy card.

I think he means an Intel Core 2 Duo or Quad rather than an AMD. However, C2Ds cheapest on New egg seems to be slightly over $100. According to this chart (http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html), there's a significant difference in performance.  Then again, if we're talking about a simple machine for unsophisticated use, its perfectly adequate.

If there's anything I'd spend money on its the case, since that's reuseable for many generations. A nice quiet case would be ideal.

I meant Intel.

Aha.

Faster yes, cheaper no.  I've been out of the DIY game for long enough that I just clicked on AMD reflexively, as it's always served me well before.  Now I read up and apparently AMD's gone all to hell.  When did that happen?

Updated plan is:
CPU: Intel E7200 (2.53Ghz)
Board: Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L

and to make Trippy happy
Graphics: Sapphire Radeon 4670 board

I also got cheaper RAM by getting fewer sticks.  The new total is 542, which is over my limit.  But limits are meant to be broken.

Intel got their shit together and made a decent architecture with the Core 2 Duo.  Nothing spectacular happened to AMD, they just haven't done anything new and exciting.

I  :heart: such topics!

Got to agree with the posters before me.

CPU:
The one you have chosen is just fine at this price range (significantly below $ 100) .
It’s true that the Core 2’s are have more performance per Mhz and, the main benefit, overclock veeery well. In that case the Core Duo E7200 US$ 120 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115052) would be the cheapest entry.
If video editing is planned, you might consider a cheap quad core (eg: AMD Phenom 9600 US$ 130 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103244)) as this is one of the (few) areas that heavily benefit from additional cores.
In any other situation just stick with your initial pick.

GPU:
The 9400 is really a bit on the weak-ish side. IMHO the HD 4650 Radeon US$ 60 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127384)  or even the HD 4670 512MB US$ 77 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814141081)  are a better choice. It’s 13$ (respectively 30$) more but the difference in games will be far more noticeable than any upgrade in the CPU category.

RAM:
Why take 1066? Those wont be of any benefit with this PC setup. Better take something like this:
2 x G.SKILL 2GB DDR2 800 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231203) for a total of $36 instead of 72, and use the $ saved on a better GPU or somesuch.

Mainboard:
The selected one is not bad, but there are cheaper ones that are still good. Example: Gigabyte GA-MA74GM matx $55 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128342), (there are others..)


Edit: Arrrgh! Took me to long to write. This is an answer to the original configuration

Edit2: My point about the RAM still stands. There is no need for 1066 Mhz RAM even with the E7200, unless you plan to overlcock it beyond 3800 Mhz anyway.

woohoo a precedent!

My new rig (Bang for buck, Fallout 3 is my first and foremost)

CPU      Intel Core 2 Duo E5200
Motherboard   ASUS P5K/EPU
RAM      4GB Transcend DDR2 800
HDD      7200rpm Western Digital/Seagate whatever's cheap
Graphics Card   512MB 9600GT Gigabyte/ASUS
Optical Drive   22x Samsung SpeedPlus SH-S223F
Sound      Onboard
PSU/Case   (Any recommendations? not worried about noise, I'm a heavy sleeper)

I must sound like a broken record, but you can get a prebuilt dell for less.

motherboard layout (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/inspd530/en/OM/HTML/parts.htm#wp1184332)
Intel E5200 (2MB L2, 2.5GHz, 800FSB)
Windows Vista Home Premium Service Pack 1
3GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
16X DVD+/-RW Drive
Integrated Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3100
$399 (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dddodf2&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=features~quickship_desktop_deals)

Throw in a 9600gt (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162007) $94.99 ($74 after a $20MIR)

Main reason for even recommending the Dell, is a legal copy of your OS + hardware $399. Just format/reinstall the OS and you will have a nice clean system to use. Long as your not looking to go crazy upgrades (its a 775 socket so you can go quad but might have to replace the PSU with that video card), or overlock your fine.

I like Corsair for the memory. Cheap and well made. You can get a 4gb kit for $54 on Newegg, with a $20 mail in rebate.

Those (The AMD dual cores) are the exact processors I ordered for Sly and me this weekend as part of our Budget Upgrade plan.  :awesome_for_real:

Are 1066 boards backwards compatible to 800?  All of the current motherboards want to run 1066.

Hm.  When I put that build together I get price of $449.  Not sure what the difference is.  Also, I'd rather 4GB of RAM than 3 and the drive is on the small side (although we have a Thecus media server that takes care of most of our storage).  So when I get it closer to a build that I want, I'm at 534, plus 100 for the graphics card for $634, and it's worse than the one I'd put together myself.  Also, due to a series of Mergers and Acquisitions, I get whatever Microsoft software for free legally (which means I keep a copy of 64 bit XP Pro in a safe, so I won't have to install Vista for a few years yet).  I put together an HP build in the same way and it was still ~150 more expensive and slightly worse than what I'd do myself.

I'm not sure why you would ever install XP64 over Vista 64.

That's the cost difference but where your getting it for free. Your talking ~150+ in retail software costs there, and in regards to ram/hdd costs you go 3rd party to even out the pricing. Needless to say, I won't mention it any further.


Seconded, if you "need" 4GB of ram run Vista for love of god.

I have seen Vista, and it offers no upside to me.  There is literally nothing in it that I want.  Meanwhile, it has the significant downsides of higher resource consumption, snoopy DRM bullshit, and lingering hardware compatability problems.

Vista has fewer compatibility problems than the festering heap of shit that is XP64. Go xp, or if you want 64, go vista.
And I used a Cooler Master Elite 330 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119118) for my server before I switched to the cosmos. Quiet, quieter with a couple fans swapped for scythe sflex fans.

You might be confusing XP64 and XPPro64.

In other news, IBuyPower is doing custom builds for competitivish prices.  I'm willing to pay a bit to have someone else do the build and give me a warranty, as long as the rig is still good enough.

I just put together
Athlon X2 5400 + Quiet CPU Fan
Asus M3A78-CM Board
4 GB of DDR2-800
Radeon 4670 512MB
500 GB drive

I even added some stupid extras like speakers (on special) and green neon (to make my wife laugh) and it comes in at $631.

Also, many of these weekly specials (http://www.ibuypower.com/mall/weeklySpecial.html) are pretty close, especially if I can replace the OMG BLUE FLAMES EXTREME SKULLS!!1! case with a less juvenile one.

Edit: Forgot to add that a big competitive advantage they have vs say Dell is that they offer systems without an OS installed (and payed for).  Though I'm not sure the weekly specials get that option.

My CoolerMaster Mystique is pretty quiet, too.  It could use a little more space as my tower cooler was painful to put in, but it's been a good case otherwise.

No, I'm not. You're not building an Itanium, so I assumed you meant XP Pro x64, which I consider a buggy pos. Lots of hardware doesn't have XP x64 drivers.

It works better than XP 64.

Can't you fiddle with Vista to run somewhere on par with XP?

I haven't really fiddled with vista, I'm still running Aero, and it runs fine. Though I may never notice it just because my processor is a monster. But honestly, it's just not a dog anymore. It's a fine OS for what it is (which admitted, isn't that great and sets the bar pretty low), but it's fine. Particularly for a gamer - also, my dad learned to use it - and he's a redneck from virginia that just does digital photo shit and banking and email on his machine.

Yes, because it only means 1066 is supported not that's recommended or even required.

Edit: Picture says more tha..blah blah

(http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/memory/core2duo-memory-guide/266mhz/fear.png)

Just did this for my wife with an Asus P5 Pro board that could take 1066 RAM.  Threw in 4 gigs of some 800 Mhz G. Skill RAM for less than some people spend in a week at Starbucks and it went perfectly. 

I went with an iBuyPower build that was only about $20 more than I'd pay to get the parts myself, plus they assemble it and I get a warranty.


Total cost: 522 before shipping plus whatever I pay for RAM upgrade

I intentionally went for the cheapest possible RAM with the intent of upgrading it myself.  They seem to charge out the ass for RAM ($80 for a 2Gig upgrade).  That must be their high margin lemonade.

I am fearful of your power needs not being met.

 :uhrr:

The rig hath arrived (4 days late due to FedEx flailing and dying thanks to weather and holiday issues).  I am pleased.  I decided to go with Vista64 Ultimate for lack of better options.  There were some issues, which in order of most to least irritating:

• The hard drive was flopping around at the bottom of the case at the end of its power cable.  The plastic plug on the sata cable was cracked in half.  In this case the butt end of the drives point towards the access panel, and there's a bit of a tight squeeze that really calls for a right-angle cable, but it wasn't tight enough that I can imagine what must have happened to fold the end of the cable so hard it cracked the plug and knocked the drive off its rails.  I reseated the drive and stuck a new sata cable in and all seems well so far, but it looks like the drive went through some gymnastics.
• The 'quiet' fan that I got for approved kitchen use sounded like a hornet's nest.  I was going to call it a total loss and get a new one, but when I pulled it out I saw a little piece of tape on the inside that the fan blades were whacking.  Note to quiet fan engineers:  don't put little bits of shit next to the fan blades.  Quiet as a mouse now.
• The wireless card didn't come with 64-bit drivers, so I had to download them on another machine and copy them over on a thumb drive.

But other than the drive that isn't anything I wouldn't run into building my own box, so having someone else do it and warranty it for about the same price I'd pay for the hardware was a pretty good deal.  My Windows Experience score is 5.4, with the bottleneck being the processor.  The next is the graphics card at 5.8 and everything else is maxed at 5.9.  I'm sad about my OS taking up a gig of RAM, especially before I get my 4 gigs in, but otherwise satisfied.

Congrats (and happy new year)!  :-)

I think you might end up liking Vista too. Since Service Pack 1 (and provided it has enough RAM to play with) it's actually a quite useable OS. And Areo looks nice.