f13.net

If you live in the USA, you need to watch this. If you don't have time, you should make time.

To get an idea, watch a few minutes at 3:30, 8:30, and then 15 minutes in on the first video, and the first 3 minutes on the second.

Don't talk to cops, part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik)
Don't talk to cops, part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE)

I actually didn't know a few things, like the fact that anything you tell police can and will be used against you, but nothing you tell them can be used to help you since it's considered hearsay and cannot be brought up in court. But just watch the video. It's pretty scary and I guess it does feed my hatred and distrust a little but it's better to be informed about this sort of thing. I guess it's a good indication about how serious this is that the first thing a defense attorney does is file a motion to suppress any and all conversations you may have had without him present.

The moral of this particular story is that you'll fuck yourself no matter WHAT you say, even if you weren't involved, so just keep your mouth shut, period. Or you'll probably regret it.

Hopefully, we'll have a few days before this degenerates into a 'broughden vs everyone else' and gets dumped into politics.

Chris Rock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8) pretty much sums it up (yes it is old, but still stands to reason).

That was fascinating, thanks.

It's almost universal nowadays. Here there's no hearsay thingamajig, but even then there's no reason to talk to the police. Or the D.A.. Or the judge.

Whatever you have to say, your lawyer will say for you.

It's in Miranda. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to an attorney. Everyone should use both, even if you are innocent.

And, as it says in the video, it's a Miranda warning. It's a refresher course in your rights as an American citizen. Those rights apply before that warning is given, and those rights apply just getting stopped on the street - before any sort of formal questioning is undertaken (if any).

That was enlightening.

Thanks for the link - that was worthwhile.  I suppose the same logic applies in Canada as well as the States?

Canada is a tad different, but the same basic principle of protection against self-incrimination is spelled out in two different sections of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

That was really interesting. Thanks for that.

That was great.  Worth watching the whole thing, really.  Thanks for sharing.

Thanks, I live in a small town, so the cops we rent are all dicks. I got picked up for violating curfew on my 16th birthday, when the curfew only applied to people under the age of 16. He even handcuffed me and patted me down, then wanted to search my house.

Also:

(http://dl-client.getdropbox.com/u/99701/ObiWan3.gif)

Never invite the cop into your house. If he wants to talk to you, that's what your porch is for. Also, when you step out, close the door firmly behind you -- you don't want him to claim he had a reasonable belief you were inviting him in.

Of course, as I've noted elsewhere, the cops in my town are about 50/50 assholes/decent guys. Since they don't wear "Hi, I'm a fucking twat" name tags, you have to treat them all like they're petty bullies looking to find someone to fuck.

That's pretty much THE fastest way to get any cop to go petty bully looking to find someone to fuck on your ass. Horrible advice.

Don't antagonize them, and most won't antagonize you back. For the few that do, well, that vid covers it. Always start amicable.

Bingo. Theres a reason I only get a speeding ticket one out of 5 times. Don't start out being a dick. In fact, don't be a dick period.

Splendid.

I can't think of a source of legal advice I trust less than a YouTube clip of a lecture at Regent University by a guy who taught Monica Goodling and called her "outstanding". You fucking retards, this shit is one step up from the "urban" community's "don't snitch". It's the groundwork to shift the perception of someone pleading the fifth into a badge of honor so when/if all the Regent grads in Justice start getting hammered on they won't look so bad. I tried to watch it, but knowing that this guy is the source of so much of the cuntery now going on in our government it turned my stomach.

You know who should keep their mouth shut to the cops? Someone being questioned as a suspect, and honestly life has shown me that most of the time cops on the ground are treating someone like a suspect there's plenty of reason to suspect them or they cut them loose. Officer Beatcop has shit he needs to do way more than try to entrap you for some bullshit misdemeanor. If you live someplace where your cops have time to do dumb shit like that, you have too many cops for the amount of work to do. It's like keeping your dog tired to keep him out of mischief. A tired dog is a good dog. A busy cop is a cop who doesn't have the time to put the screws to random people because he feels like it. So I suppose this advice is useful if you're actually guilty of something, but that's hardly a recommendation.

That Chris Rock video was waaaaaayyyyyyyy better advice than this shit probably was. Be polite, respectful, and helpful. Like you would with any professional going about their profession. Treating a cop who wants to talk to you for a minute like he's running a three card monte game to stick you with an assault charge is asking to be looked at really closely, and with good reason.

I disagree, bob.  Of course you don't be a douche to cops, and if someone's house is on fire and a policeman runs up and asks if there are kids in the house, you don't stonewall out of fear that they're trying to trap you with some kind of mind game.

And there's a difference here between an obviously-guilty person taking the fifth on the witness stand to try to be a weasel and a person exercising their right not to be volunteering information to police that could get them thrown in jail.  If you'd seen the video, you'd see that the lawyer produced examples of innocent people who went to prison based largely on fucking up and saying something stupid while being interrogated that was then presented to the court as decisive evidence.

The first and best line of defense is obviously to not go committing any felonies.  But if you don't commit a felony and still wind up dragged off by the police, the second line of defense is shutting up your stupid mouth before any of your nervous chatter gets you convicted of something you didn't do.  Only makes sense.

Sorry, I'm still going to talk to cops :/

I'll just know what not to say, is all.

:ye_gods:
Shit, really?
Damn, and here I was, thinking that that's exactly what the chap was saying.

Hey fuckwit, pleading the fifth IS a badge of honor.
Means you have something vaguely resembling a brain inside your head.

If you are a suspect or even a witness in a criminal investigation you shouldn't talk to the police.

Police usually treat you as a witness for as long as they can get away with it. They only will treat you as a suspect if they absolutely have to.

A friend of mine is a defence attorney and his experience is that the police tries to extract as much information as they can out of suspects while giving them the impression that they are still considered witnesses.

This has several advantages:

- Suspect is more likely to incriminate himself because he consideres himself a witness to the crime and not a suspect.
- No right to legal counsel
- No miranda rights

The point is that the police might already consider you to be a suspect not a witness when they question you.

Also the person considered to be the suspect and the person that actually committed the crime do not have to be the same.

In murder cases the usual suspects are husband or wife, close relatives or kids and siblings. If you report something valuable stolen you will most likely be also investigated for insurance fraud. Becoming a suspect in a criminal investigation is easier than most of you think. If they then catch you telling what they consider to be a lie, you just went from suspect to prime suspect. Even if you just misremembered something that was weeks ago.

As the video states it doesn't matter if you actually did it. The DA just has to prove beyond resonable doubt that you had motive and means. Catching you with a supposed lie might just be enough for him to build a case.

First one is a good point. The second one, I'm pretty sure, is false although I'd say that you'll certainly be looked at much more closely if you insist on legal counsel before giving a witness statement. The third, as has been pointed out in the video and the thread, isn't true. You don't get Miranda rights but a Miranda warning, you've got the rights anyway.

It's simple, really.  If you get pulled over for something like speeding and they ask you why they pulled you over just say something ambiguous like, "I think I have a good idea".  It doesn't antagonize the cop, but it also doesn't say that you knowingly violated the law.

Outside of driving infractions (the main way that people usually come into contact with cops) f they ever want to question you about anything else just say, "I'm sorry, but my policy is not to talk to the police".  It'll antagonize them, sure, but it's not like they can do anything about it.  And for the record, fuck the police.  Police forces are composed almost entirely of those chunky kids in high school who nobody liked and decided to become a cop solely for the authoritative penis substitute it represents.

One always has the right to legal counsel. At least down here.

State won't provide it for a witness, though. You'll have to fork out some cash.

This should have been started in politics. You knew it would go there in the first 3 posts.  Bunch of fuckwits with authority problems.

 :awesome_for_real:

Also what the hell does that guy mean by starting the whole thing off with, "We're lucky to live in America. In Spain or Italy the police can do whatever they like to you, anything goes." He made out that getting arrested in a first world European country is pretty much equivalent to being sent to Guantanamo.

What?  You guys are nuts.  When a cop stops you driving,  you smile and ask if he has his handcuffs with him.  If it's a woman cop, blame a man.  Everyone knows that!

When I was underage, I was in trouble with the police all the time.  Pot, trespassing, malicious mischief... the list goes on and on and on.  The worst thing I ever did was help drive a huge steam roller off of a cliff in Santa Fe but we didn't get caught, though the police came to our house the day after to ask questions.  Someone ratted!  Nothing came of it, though. The worst thing I ever got caught doing was rolling one of those huge tractor tires down a hill and into someone's front bay window.  It was a tall hill and it kept picking up speed and when it hit the house it went right through and the front of the house collapsed.  I would have run away faster, but I couldn't stop watching!  The tire was just standing there at the top of a hill!  I'd call that an attractive nuisance.  Seriously, I was surprised (and slightly gleeful) that the gigantic thing actually moved.  It must have been ready to go, anyway.

I would never say anything useful to the cops when they busted me.  Inane babble seemed to work, although it wasn't a conscious plan or anything.  They always let me go.  A friend of my father's worked for the police.  He told him that the cops thought I was funny and that I would grow out of it.  I suggest silence or inane babbling to be the best strategy, especially if you're guilty!  Also, get a lawyer with a pony tail.

(http://www.imagebucket.org/thumb-C636_493D27F3.jpg) (http://www.imagebucket.org/share-C636_493D27F3.html)

Fear mongering?

In all truth, they may get physical with you during interrogation all over the world. Most prominent catalyst is likelyhood of getting away with it.
His examples were, obviously, terrible.

Ever had a run in with police in Spain or Italy? They're fuckers and there's no two ways about it. (Okay, so I don't know about Italy but Spain and France I can tell you about.)

Even Switzerland is like this.  We got fucked with in the Geneva train station because we were camped out there at 3AM waiting for our morning train.  They screwed with us for a good 45 minutes even when it was apparent that we were tourists and not doing anything more nefarious than crashing out with all our backpacks while waiting for a train.  Absolute cocksuckers.

German cops were better, though.  They weren't exactly warm and fuzzy, but they were professional.

Conversely, all my encounters with UK police have been good (insofar as they could be called good).  At least I know when I get pulled over for speeding/traffic infringements at the most I'm going to have someone being sarcastic at me and rather than reach for their tazer/gun.

That's not to say that they're great because god knows there are many, many accounts of crappy UK police but I wouldn't lump them in with the stereotypes of over-zealous US law enforcement which a lot of you guys are not doing anything to quell.

I wouldn't quell them because I despise, loathe, and hate cops.

Joke's on them, eh?

Also, I believe this advice is mostly for people without tits and cute giggles.

I have a fairly good track record of not getting written up by taking the opposite approach.  If they want to write me up for some bullshit speed trap i'm not going to ease their conscience by being nice.

When asked "do you know how fast you were going?" my favorite response is "I know exactly how fast I was going!".  I also enjoy going on a rant about why they never seem to pull over the cell phone assholes that drive everywhere at 20mph below the posted limit.  My goal is to pretty much be as annoying as possible so they just want to get rid of me as quickly as they can, plus if they do give me a ticket at least I had some fun.

If you missed it on news feeds on friday:

Kop Busters - Raw Footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHmP_KtmcB4)

Kop Busters live footage of a house in Odessa, TX.

Basically six months ago they leased out a house in Odessa, threw in some lamps/cooling a full hydro setup. What did they start growing? Christmas trees.

So why are cops raiding the house, how did they know to even look in the house or get a warrant to search the location? Suspicion is police officers are looking to use FLIR cameras to check houses for suspicious heat signatures.


Police system has let me down twice, worst was when personal property was stolen I actually found it on kijiji for sale no more then two weeks later. I tracked the guy down, set up a meeting to buy the goods back and was in contact with the police about my stolen property. The officer said under no circumstances buy the goods back and they would meet up with a squad car to acquire the property. Needless to say the time I setup dispatch wouldn't send a car, and I had to end up waiting two hours. By that time the property was gone and the officer reported back to me the guy "was worried about telling him how/who he acquired the goods from his car might torched". Needless to say I was out almost 2k when I could of just bought my property back for $500. Kicker was the guys facebook had up postings from his friends on the wall saying "fuck the police" a little part of me died that day.

There are quite a few things that raise red flags for cops. Foreigners are one of them. Male foreigners, another.
Male foreigners in groups... well...  :drill:

Was that the case?

Because that would make their attitude and treatment of us alright?

Us?

In that case, yes. It would.

Considering that you have no idea of circumstances or events, would you like to explain or justify your reasoning?

So by your rationale it'd be okay for the cops to question a group of Japanese guys on the street for no other reason than them being foreign and male, correct?

Wow, and people call me a fascist.

Of course it is okay. It would also be okay if a cop questioned a single white christian male.
How they conduct such a questioning is another matter entirely. If they are too harsh, cause you psychological trauma and you have witnesses, sue.

You do know that it is okay for cops to question anyone on the street, right? They usually won't. Red flags increase the likelyhood that they will. Red flags, and then acting like a cunt with a chip on his shoulder, that means they'll antagonize back.

Which brings me to Draconian. Had written 200 words to explain to you my train of thought. That's obviously too much. Hence: you were asking for it.

Now why would you make such a statement? Remember me? The guy who quit the NYPD and is currently working with the head of the criminal bureau at one of the city's top papers giving them background information on shoddy police work and why the DP (decline to prosecute) rate is so high?

I will argue with one point the speaker makes. Sometimes talking to a cop can help you. There are many times where I have had "reasonable suspicion" to stop and question someone because they were doing something shady, but no "probable cause" for an arrest. After speaking with them everything turned out okay.
In fact in a couple of instances the reason a car was slowly driving repeatedly through a neighborhood was because they were lost, scared out of theirs minds (being in the South Bronx) and looking for the freeway back to Manhattan, so by speaking with me I helped them.

Once again I willingly throw this statement out there....you want to know the really bad things that get done to people by police officers? Feel free to ask me. So far no one here has.

Yes. Do tell.

That kopbusters video was awesome.

Because threads like this inevitably turn to cop bashing, and well, you used to be one so you're a likely target.

Obviously "Keep your mouth shut" doesn't mean to be aggressive and refuse to answer any questions at all, it just means beyond polite pleasantries and who you are and what you are doing right at that moment, you should be aware that agreeing or admitting to anything can fuck you proper. That's all.

Well, yeah, those japs bombed Pearl Harbor.

Obviously.

You seem to have taken the exact opposite of my meaning.

Treating them like a petty bully looking for someone to fuck means being really fucking polite, but very firm on anything they ask.

I treat cops with a great deal of "Yes Sir, No Ma'am" etc, because I don't want to give the petty bullies among them something to latch on to. If they want to come into my house, my response would be a very apologetic "I'm sorry, but not without a warrant". If they want to search my car, well -- I'm under the impression they can just impound if they want to, but I'm going to say "No Sir, you may not" and see where it goes from there.

If nothing else, I want to be on the record -- very politely -- as opposing the search. Implied consent is a fucker.

That I have. Apologies.

Well, I didn't really make it clear either.

But yeah, be polite. Because like I said -- you can't tell the petty assholes from the professionals. In my experience, politeness doesn't buy you much from the petty assholes but the professional ones at least occasional turn tickets into warnings because you didn't just piss them off.

But even for the nicest cop in the world, who seems to REALLY want to be my friend and help me -- I'm going to be polite, but I'm saying the absolute minimum, and if he wants to see inside my house, my car, or my backpack he's going to have to force it. I'll be very polite, but I want it to be very clear that I said "No" and ultimately he claimed state authority to do so.

Unfortunately, I WILL show him my ID -- which I still think was a bullshit SCOTUS decision. I can understand traffic stops for drivers and the like (a driver's license is required to drive!), but I don't see why random cop stopping random passers-by needs to see ID if they're not driving or not being arrested.

"Do you know why I pulled you over?" "You wanted to check out the '08 FJ?"  :why_so_serious:

Terrorists don't have access to fake IDs.

I've found flat out lying about my knowledge of the speed limit to work, especially if you know the local roads well enough. But that's probably because my local town has a weird ass "Speed Limit is 20 unless posted otherwise" law, and they randomly seem to assign speeds of 40 or 30 to streets that are absolutely identical.

So telling the cop "I thought the speed limit was 40" is rather believable.

Of course I'm pretty sure that means you've admitted to speeding, ignorance of the law is no excuse and whatnot (unless of course there actually aren't any signs, in which case you could beat it in court).

Cops don't ask me any questions like that very often anymore.  The last guy didn't either, but he gave me a warning anyway for whatever reason.  Last time I recall being questioned, it was "Sir, do you know the speed limit on Oglesby Road?"  Naturally, I said "I do."  Normally it's just "Reason I pulled you over is I got you going XX in a XX zone" and since I already have my license out, he quickly disappears for a while and comes back with a pad to sign.  I don't argue because I'm always fucking speeding.

The last time I got ticketed was for keeping my studded tires on too long.  Cop lights go on, I turn on my blinker to pull over.  Thinking of a cop I once knew who got killed by a car while ticketing someone, I decide that instead of making the cop stand next to highway traffic, I'll pull just a tad farther ahead into a nice safe parking lot. 

Do I get thanks?  Nope, I get a lecture for not instantly pulling to the side of the road.  Next time, Mr. Policeman gets to play in traffic.

That one also taught me not to mail in my payment--I went by the courthouse to drop it off instead, and found out the cop overstated the amount of the fine.  Saved $22 on that one.

I don't imagijne you'd have a lot of luck contesting a ticket based on "The officer was totally lying about what the radar gun said".

And in my area, lack of signs means....the speed limit is 20. Written write into the bloody law.

If he doesn't happen to be in court the day you show up then this instant win.

Which means it doesn't matter what you said.

95% of my tickets are things like "Crap, forgot to have my car inspected" or "Crap, I just got the warning but didn't have my proof of insurance on me". Both of those are dismissable (if you get your car inspected/registered within 5 business days of getting the ticket or you currently have insurance and just don't have the proof on you).

The latter pisses me off, because ONLY in my damn podunk little shithole town do I have to go up before a judge and SHOW HIM MY FUCKING INSURANCE CARD TO PROVE I HAD IT.  Every other fucking place around here? You just show the damn clerk, like if you were paying a ticket. So instead, I have to take three hours of my fucking day to go sit with a hundred other people, 95 of whom are there to show a goddamn judge a piece of paper, for no apparent reason.

This is a highly informative and interesting video that had me riveted the entire way through. I'd love to see other stuff like this.

In Fairfax county, which I guess is the second richest country in America, used to be the first until all the rich people decided to move one county over, you have to do the same. It's a gigantic waste of time, and the $250 or so (yeah, they've decided to see how much they can get people to pay - remember the "installment plan" debacle last year?) ensures that everyone WILL show up.

I miss Reston.

You wantbout of a ticket? Simple method. Get a police officer uniform and leave it and a badge in plain sight. Firefighter's uniform or even a security guard uniform work. Brotherhood of the badge.

true story. I donated to the Seattle PD for some function, they mailed me a car side window sticker, and the 3 times I got stopped after that in what I imagine ordinary circumetances would warrant a ticket, I got off with just a warning :P

My Attorney General of Texas sticker works wonders on traffic stops also.  :)

Seriously, if you are detained for anything other than a minor traffic violations, shut your damn mouth!  You don't know what you are doing or what they are thinking.  By the time that you get to an attorney, you may have already lost your case. 

P.S.  Never blow into the breathalyzer if you had alcohol that day. 

There's your free legal advice for the day. 

See bolded part. Dont do this.
In most instances without a corresponding and legal ID providing proof of your employment as a police officer in most municipalities this will get you arrested or at least detained for questioning.

Thats interesting.  I know that impersonating a police officer is a crime, but merely having a "costume" in the back seat without referring to yourself as a police officer or mentioning the costume?  You can always say it was for Halloween or something.

But, like Broughden said, none of that later legal stuff is going to stop a cop who takes it the wrong way from taking you to the station for a few hours on general principle.

He didnt say "costume" he said "uniform" and "badge", and  in MANY municipalities/states merely possessing them without lawful authority is in itself enough to arrest you (misd charge). New York City and state being but one I am aware of (190.26 penal code). The uniform dealers are licensed by the city and if they sell to someone they shouldnt they will lose their license and also be prosecuted (190.27).

At some point during the traffic stop Im sure the officer would see the uniform and ask the obvious question, "You are on the job?" If the defendant lied and said he was, he just stepped up to a felony IIRC.

Fake edit: I was wrong. Under 190.26 of the NYS penal law merely displaying them is a class E felony.

I only arrested one guy once for something similar. He had a placard in his SUV windshield which would lead one to believe he was with the state police. Given he was from Ghana I didnt believe him. He got locked up. Left back to Africa while out on bail and never returned.

Well, I don't disagree that actually telling the officer you are "on the job" or possessing an ACTUAL uniform or badge is a crime.  But (without researching the statutes) I'm fairly certain there is probably an exception for Halloween costumes, strippers, etc (or maybe there is no exception, but the law is not enforced in obvious Halloween-type situations). 

Still, overall, too risky a method.  Donate to get the PD sticker and hope for the best.

There is a hidden cost to donating, though. You will get callled about 20 times a year for donations.  I used to do this and just got completely fed up with the solicitations.

This I'm confused by. Isn't refusing to blow treated as admitting guilt?

No, it just means that you have to be taken in and have blood drawn from you.  You will be handcuffed and taken away, but it gives you precious time to sober up, and it's more accurate, which breathalyzers aren't always; you can sometimes blow over the limit even when you're technically under.

Even if you've only had a couple of beers it's best to refuse to blow.  Sure you'll be massively inconvenienced, but a lot less inconvenienced than you would by a DUI on your record.  Best to be safe even if you think you'll blow under.

I believe (IANALOAC) that you have the right in most countries to refuse to take a breathalyser test on the grounds that it isn't very reliable and can result in a false positive under many common circumstances. However if the police have reasonable grounds to suspect that you are DUI, they can arrest you on suspicion and require you to pass a urine or a blood test at the station.

In NJ we have an implied consent law; refusing to take a brethalyzer gets you an instant DUI.

Also, according the a couple of my cops friends, don't say that you've had 2 beers. That's the standard answer from everyone who has had more than 2 beers and gets you a breathalyzer instantly. It's better to say that you had 3 beers over the last 4 hours or something to that effect.

Also, do NOT follow this advice in Canada. Here, refusing to provide a breath example without a lawful excuse is against the Criminal Code of Canada. The charge is the same as if you failed the test.

A DUI is so fucking ticky-tacky these days, I don't know why anyone would risk even drinking a single light beer before driving. The amount that needs to show up, especially on a cheeseball breathalizer, is so minimal as to be retarded. I won't touch a drop if I'm driving, even though I don't drink to inebriation anymore.

And I say this as someone who was a stupid kid who used to drink to oblivion and drive the back country roads. I learned my lesson eventually, but despite being stopped many, many times by the police, I've passed at least a half-dozen sobriety field tests and never had to blow or go to the station. All after talking to the cops :)

I also agree with what murdoc said about "two beers". Kiss of death. Know what you drank and when, and make sure it stays within legal limits. However, see what I said about DUI. You might not get a DWI, but the levels for DUI...just don't drink and drive. Not worth it unless you like your life to be a mess (I know a lot of people who have to ride bikes or scrounge rides in the winter).

Interesting: http://www.cba.org/BC/public_media/automobiles/190.aspx (http://www.cba.org/BC/public_media/automobiles/190.aspx)

Apparently the gist of the Law in BC is that you are legally required to provide a breath sample, but you have the right to not do so until you have spoken to your lawyer. Refusing to blow in BC effectively carries the same penalty as blowing over .08 if the judge doesn't accept your excuse for not blowing.

The answer to "Have you been drinking?" is always "No".

The best way to get out of a ticket is to know someone in the chain.  A cop, clerk, doesn't matter.  Sign the pad, drive off and call your friend.  That "thin blue line" sticker doesn't keep me from getting pulled over, but I suppose the implication is that I can handle the ticket afterward if I really am/know a cop.  Even if you can't get the ticket dismissed, you can at least get advice on how to deal with it.  I got ticketed with Expired Tag and No Tag in one stop (sound silly, yes?) because I had not gotten around to transferring my tag to my new-to-me-with-a-thin-blue-line-sticker car.  Advice was to do the transfer ASAP and take the paperwork to court, which worked great since my charges were dropped by the judge.

I'd never accept the results of a breathalyzer. The german TÜV (an independent technical inspection authority in germany, responsible for the regular safety inspection of all cars and safety assessment of all things technical and electronical) tested the accuracy of breathalyzers of all different brands.

Their findings were that all of them were wildly inaccurate and sometimes produced results that were off by .02. Some brands even showed significant blood alcohol levels although the test subject didn't drink any alcohol.

This led to a change in german legislation. Anybody may refuse to do a breath test (although he may not refuse a blood test) or opt for a blood test instead. If the breathalyzer shows that you are above the legal limit, they have to confim it by doing a blood test. If you are below the legal limit they may use the breathalyzer value but they have to subtract a certain amount from the displayed value.

You can insist that your lawyer be present, though, and that gives you time. I don't believe that statute requires you to agree the first time asked.

Can we rename this thread I Am Not A Lawyer But I Play One On The Internet?

Truthiness.

Only if you also add "And BTW, State Laws Actually Vary, So Shit That Works in Texas Might Get You Laughed At in New Jersey".

I don't think that would be fair because a drunken criminal would probably know just as much.  They're just not usually as fancy talking.

Nope. You don't have the right to have an attorney for a preliminary or chemical test. You can agree to take the test or refuse. Almost every state has an implied consent law, and 15 of them have additional criminal charges for refusing. In pretty much all cases refusing will get you arrested anyway, and in some states once arrested they will force you to take the test against your will if need be. DUI is one crime that really pisses the fuck out of people and want to see people arrested for it fucked hard. It's one reasons people not only don't mind random checkpoints, but support them. Here in Ohio we even have a special license plate design that you have to have if you have a DUI just so everyone on the road with you knows what a stupid piece of shit you are.

Really, DUI's and fleeing in a high speed chase should both carry a mandatory death penalty on the first offense.

Huhuhuhuhuh... I ANAL BI POOTI ... huhuhuhuhuh....

I've spent five years of my life trying to invent an anal bum cover, failing to do so is my greatest regret.

What if you are so drunk you are slurring your words?  Is saying "NO" still effective at that point?

As a tangent, my roomie and I were driving home from the grocery one night.  Fairly late, around 10 or 11.  He'd stopped at a light, and just after it turned green, an SUV comes blowing through the intersection.  My first thought was, "Wow, that fucker ran the hell out of a red light."  A couple seconds later, it dawned on me, "Holy shit, he was in the wrong lane."  This was on a four lane road with a fairly hefty median in the middle, so being in the wrong lane was kind of a big deal.  I was still staring down the road after the guy when my roomie started pulling into the intersection, and it wasn't until he cursed and abruptly threw the car into reverse that I noticed the dozen police cars coming right at us.  From the way the road curved, we didn't see their lights or hear their sirens until they were right on top of us; they missed our car by inches as they went through the intersection.

We later found out that the guy made it about another mile down the road before smashing into the back of some compact car, hurting the people inside.  He kept going, but apparently didn't make it far before the cops rammed his SUV into junk and performed the Cobra beatdown on him.  The article mentioned that he'd been charged with something like a dozen felonies, all because the stupid fuck was driving drunk on a suspended license and thought he could outrun the cops after they'd already seen his license plate.

(http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/cop.gif)

Raph likes to talk about games that matter.  Someone should make a game about this subject.

Moreso than "yesshh".  I'm not saying it is effective, just don't be a dumbass.

It's kind of like being in a position to take advantage of any circumstance.  If you say yes, well, you're fucked, if you say no, well, there is still a chance.