f13.net

According to this article (http://sffmedia.com/films/science-fiction-films/257-will-asimovs-foundation-saga-be-lord-of-the-rings-in-space.html) as posted at slashdot (http://entertainment.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/29/0323248&from=rss) today.

It's New Line, so at least it might look good. And the story is pretty well defined, so at least there's a script to follow.

But from what I recall of the series (pretty much starting from the Caves of Steel and ending with Foundation and Earth), even just doing adaptations of the three main Foundation books is going to be a bit tricky. First you've got the establishment of pscyhohistory as a reason to build the Foundation itself. Then you've got the emergence of the Second Foundation as the group chartered with ensuring the maths are all followed correctly. But to leave that discovery by the First Foundation and then the belief that the Second doesn't exist as the sole ending doesn't feel right. It's got a sort of Kubrick qualty to it, befitting the era of the writing, but I suspect the modern audience would expect more of a solid resolution.

That then brings us to Danil Olivaw having created (or helping manage what Hari Seldon created, can't remember) Gaia to evolve humanity beyond simple recurring empires, due to extra-galactic unknowns. But even that doesn't have a satisfactory ending because it only means things will change.

All of this is just me being a geek of course. I can already see the  :awesome_for_real: and :roll:. But I'm just curious what everyone else thinks about how this series would be ended if the trilogy is told. Heck, I'd be curious to see how the Foundation itself ends. Sorta anticlimactic to say "well good, it's now only 1,000 years of Dark Ages instead of 30,000".

God I think I read the Foundation books (sure there were more than 3?) when I was about 10... I have bugger all memory of them now! In fact I don't think I've read any Asimov for over 20 years.

Given that near-total recollection of them I don't think I can comment on a possible film adaptation, but do you think the books would bear re-reading now, 30 years after I first read them?

/snarl

Also, I never felt this sort of thing would translate all that well. But hey, maybe it will.

Yea, not sure at all. It's only ever been a book series, with some crappy versions like that Will Smith version (which was a generic sci-fi movie until they slapped I, Robot on it for brand recognition or some shit).


Short answer: yes.

Not-short answer: The books still hold up. The Foundation trilogy itself (Foundation, Foundation and Empire, Second Foundation) has since been wrapped within a much larger series spanning 15 books by Asimov and over a dozen by more by other authors. If you really start at the "beginning" of the universe in which this is set, follow the list here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series) starting with I, Robot. I first read it from Caves of Steel through Foundation and Earth though, which was good because the end really made a lot more sense because of the first Robots novel.

Good luck finding Foundation and Earth if you don't have it already.  Last I heard, it was out of print.  I was only able to read due to sheer luck of finding a couple copies at a game shop with used books.  Gave one to my dad since he introduced me to the series, then proceeded to be "WTF :ye_gods:" after the ending, having only read the collection I, Robot and not knowing one fucking thing about Daneel Olivaw.  Was it Olivaw who planned the manipulation of humanity, or Giskard?  I can't remember.

Oh, and I think the three foundation books would lend themselves far better to a limited series on something like HBO or FX, particularly to help flesh out just how disastrous the Mule's machinations were for the seldon plan.  However, I'm not going to say no to a movie, especially from New Line, who has pulled off a difficult trilogy before.

Also: Terrance Stamp as Hari Seldon and Paul Giamatti as the Mule.  Those would be my picks.

It will be good if they get Paul Verhoeven to direct it.

That's not funny to me.  At all.  Please knock on wood or something, the man already took a giant shit on one of the great classics in science fiction.

I recently bought all five of the 'core' Foundation books to fill out my bookshelf.  They seemed to be recent prints, so I don't think you will have trouble finding them.

The Mule. OMG the Mule. Big nose, ugly guy. Could be really bad ass. Ya, I can see this as a great movie.

I enjoyed the Foundation books when in my early teens: ate them up.  I tried re-reading them again a couple of years ago and just couldn't enjoy them.

It wasn't just because of the bemusingly HG Wells-era science (coal-fired spaceships :uhrr:)

Can't-remember-his-name guy was about to set off the nuclear reaction on Earth that would so irradiate it humanity would be forced to flee to the stars instead of just sending their robots to colonize and terraform for them, as they had done the first time around (Caves of Steel era). Giskard was reading that guy's mind and realized the guy was right to do it, even though the guy didn't believe it himself. This is because Giskard and Daneel both came up with the Zeroeth Law that said humanity itself must be saved even at the expense of the First Law which said no robot could harm, or allow to become harmed, a human.

Giskard died in the process (I think it was the inherent conflict of Zeroeth which they created themselves vs First which is hardwired), so it fell to Daneel to carry it out. And over the course of the next twenty thousand years, he did so. Culminating in the need for the Transducer lobe he got from a hermaphrodite (from one of the first robot-controlled planets that create that type of human), the event for which answered the question about why the guy from Foundation and Empire chose the Giaian solution over the perpetuation of Hari Seldon's formula by the First Foundation being secretly controlled by the Second Foundation.

Shit. It's got to be 20 years since I read the series for the third time, and the above is from memory...

I don't remember coal-fired spaceships tough. Which had that Endie?

I think it was in the initial trilogy, maybe even the very first book, actually.  I seem to remember a protagonist is speaking to some old guy that remembers before the collapse.  I'm hazy about that bit, but absolutely confident that the coal-powered spaceships are there (I googled and found a few others commenting on that, so I think I didn't imagine it!).

It didn't have anything to do with it. The reason the Gieian solution was chosen was because Seldon's solution doesn't consider any external (non-human) force. The entire galaxy connected, acting effectively as one organism, can defend and fight back orders of magnitude more effectively against any sort of outside invading force.

It had everything to do with it. I just cut out the details. Here those are :-)

He was called upon by the Gaians (Gieians? Your spelling could be correct) to make the choice between continuing Seldon's plan or choosing the Gaian one (as fostered by Olivaw). This is because he had a strong "intuition" sense. He could make the right choice, he was just not always sure why. So in this case he made the choice (Foundation and Empire) and then spent the next period of time searching for the reason why his intuition told him it was the right one (going to the first colony robot-controlled worlds, meeting that hermaphrodite, getting to Earth, then getting to the Moon, then meeting Daneel, then hearing about the latter's concern that humanity only knew humanity and not other races, pointing to the alien-esque kid they brought along, etc etc).

By the way, should this be moved to Movies? I was sure that's where I put it originally. Maybe that's only for in-market movies?

Who knows? I can't figure out the rules for the Movies thread.

Oh gosh, stupid PC just ate entire post.\

Gonna be short here:

First I learned of Foundation in some long forgotten village library. They had it, just like that.

Then years later, I discovered wonders of the internet and one of those wonders was wonder of ebook scene. Which had every single think Asimov ewer written.

Thirdly, some publisher realized that he is dead and books are for grabs and he did a reedition. And I have to give it to him, really awesome one: huge book, awesome illustrations , perfect quality paper, solid hardcover and all of it for 9$ more that for usual printed on toilet paper softbook.


Also, I was amazing how he could write this in like 50's and whole thing didn't started to lool retarded at all. Asimov, he was really good at his work.

Just one point, Darniaq: I think you mean Foundation's Edge.  F&E was about the Mule's crazy ascension to power.

You think I'm joking? He's the only one that could turn Asimov's dreck into something worthwhile like the last time.

Alrighty then, I'm convinced, next time I'm at my parents house I'm gonna dig up my old Asimovs and have a re-read  :awesome_for_real:

You are over thinking this.

When they say 'adaptation', the best you can hope for is I Robot, or *shudder* 'I am Legend'. Will Smth is a racing certainty.

I think the largest challenge this would face is that the trilogy is connected as a story, but not as characters. It's been a while since I read those books, but the three of them are not driven by a central cast of active characters who drive the story between them all. It's about a wide cast of characters over a large span of years that tells the larger story.

How that is handled for the masses is the real challenge.

I absolutely loved the Foundation books. There is quite a lot of politics, especially in the first two books (Salvor Hardin, Anacreon etc.), but mixed with great action (the Merchants).

I hope they create a great looking Trantor (after all, Coruscant was entirely inspired by it) and make a good job with the large spans of time between the various events.

Doh! Thanks :-)

And I think Grimwell nailed it: biggest challenge will be the lack of consistent characters. Unless they just take some assention-to-power/overthrow-dictator script, paint up a nice sci-fi setting to it and then shop it around until someone throws Will Wright and "Foundation" on it  :ye_gods:

I think ahoythematey must be refering to another book. F&E is available at Amazon, and not a special order dealio; 24 hour availability.

Ok fine, I looked it up. Turns out Wikipedia has some pretty good infoz.

It was Foundation's Edge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation's_Edge), guy-who-made-the-choice is named Trevize. He's troubled that he doesn't get the reason he chose Gaia.

I guess I was wrong about Foundation and Earth being out of print, though I meant Foundation and Empire when I used the abbreviation F&E.  Yeah, Golan Trevize or something and his entourage of miscreants looking for Bobby Fischer, including Bliss who is robbing the grave.

I must be missing something. I thought the Foundation series was about a misshapen dude who mentally dominated people (in a kind of passive way) and some group's effort to kill him.

sorta. in the same way that the Brothers Karamatzov is about 3 brothers that don't get along.

I read the 7? book extrended series over a decade ago so I can't remember much but I do remember liking it.  I never did read a lot of the side novels by other people than Asmiov.  I never started so early with the robot books.

On one hand I was so disapointed in what he did to the story. I really like that book. On the other hand nothing wrong with a little 90210 saves the universe.

It's been so long. Guess I need to re-read it.