f13.net

Edited by NiX

The wiki is finally up and can be found here (http://wiki.f13.net). So, what do we need from you? Probably too much, but it's for a cause. It's for the kids. If they're spending more time learning from the wiki, that means less time for them to spend on your lawn.

What's been done or in the process of being finished:

MMOG List (http://wiki.f13.net/index.php/MMORPG_List)
MMORTS List (http://wiki.f13.net/index.php/MMORTS_List)
CCG List (http://wiki.f13.net/index.php/CCG_List)
Web Games (http://wiki.f13.net/index.php/Web_Games_List)

Recommendation lists

What needs to be done:

Articles
F13 & ... (E.g. SWG)
Any additions to the other lists

What do we need from you? Well, nothing really. If you do know something or have an interest in filling in a section, by all means! The F13 & ... section could use some love from posters who were around through those times. I wasn't around for a lot of them, so I'm not to aware of what happened.

If you have something to submit, either send it to Wiki AT F13 . net, PM it to NiX or post it in this thread.

Does this include catchphrases, memes, etc.?

OLG Wiki already has most of that stuff, does it not?

Yeah, just thought I'd ask.  Most of them are from predecessor sites anyway.

I can't imagine the list is very long - jackhob, crotchpheasant and then the one you obviously want to mark down permanently in history.

We most certainly aren't a meme generation factory and the mmog lexicon and vocabulary is fairly established.

However, an Article with all the words and definitions of Online Gaming is Interesting on it's own. Hmmm. Ok, making another thread.

Cockstab, heavy hitters, charts, twitch, anything involving Grunk. We should have a catchall page for memes, though there's certainly no need for more than one page.

If you want to exhaustively go through, and find all the first known uses for all the f13 memes (this goes for Triforcer as well) - I will make a section.

This is not something I personally have an interest in doing. Feel free to edit them all into your respective posts.

Edit: And yes, f13 forums search all the way back to The Beginning. So searching on each should be pretty easy, remember to use quotes where applicable.

Use Google for searching, it's better.

Put in "site:forums.f13.net" as one of the search terms and you'll just search the forums.

F13 & Sigil

How come you guys don't just host your own Wiki?

Mediawiki is an ugly piece of dog shit that isn't set up in any reasonable fashion anywhere except wikipedia.

I couldn't find another wiki program as clean, nice or hassle free as this one?

Ok, I've decided that the dictionary is probably going to turn into an encyclopedia. Does anyone know of a wiki software that looks (through themes or regularly) like springnote, is easy to maintain, and allows attachments? The springnote attachment stuff is crap and space is too limited.

Thx.

MediaWiki is not an option. It does not look or function like I'm asking.

Confluence and DekiWiki look decent. Still looking though. Their installations are a pain in the asssssssssssssssssssss.

Ah, looking back at all the wikis I've used, I see your point. Most are a clusterfuck with the exception of Wikipedia. Good luck in the search, lots of info getting dusty around here.

Is anything off bounds? Say.. a chronicle of grunk or other miscreants we've had grace this place. I think you know what I'm getting at here.

Almost nothing is off limits as long as it's well-documented.

We use Confluence at work, and it's OK but nothing amazing and also a pain to setup and administer.. but you can get some cool plugins.

Looks like SMF is making a Wiki plugin:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=272676.0

The only one I've setup is Twiki (http://twiki.org/) but it's been a long time.

Yea, was looking at Confluence. SMF Wiki will probably be a terrible piece of shit as it's a usermod.

I'll try to do an F13 & Eve one, but someone else will have to do the early days.

How do I get access to post on the Wiki?

How do I get access to good wiki software?

HAHAHA. No, seriously. I'm still looking. Mostly though, I'm biding my time and compiling information. What did you want to post?

Was going to compile and post some info for A History of Bad Design

Oh no worries about that for now, I'm not unstickying it, right now I just want a goddamn decent piece of wiki software that's organized in a way that isn't dogpoo.

Just to let you all know, the hunt for good wiki software continues. We installed Mediawiki, but it's basically un-userfriendly trash that mostly just wants to fight with you instead of being useful.

Fucking wiki software. Damned stuff appeared between "web 1.0" and "2.0" and is about as useful as "web .05."

/anger

I have a decent amount of experience with MediaWiki (from doing freaky things with its page syntax to writing new extensions for it) and could help you beat it into shape if you're interested.  FWIW.

Yep, I've used Mediawiki and while the security system is little better than a hack in terms of usability, the whole package is the best I've used for functionality (unsurprisingly considering the wikipedia connection).

I've used MediaWiki, TWiki, MoniWiki, and MoinMoin, and frankly I wouldn't recommend any of them.  If I had to pick, I'd go with MediaWiki.

What would you recommend?

I can't recommend anything I haven't used, so. . . nothing.

God I hate wiki software.

Perhaps it's just my prior experience with MoinMoin that makes MediaWiki look like Mecha Raptor Jesus to me.

It's also from playing games like UD and NW where the developers just put a MediaWiki up in lieu of writing real documentation for the game, and let the players write the doc themselves.  And, in defiance of common sense, this actually worked and the results are more pleasant to navigate than most professionally written doc.  You figure the software has to be doing something right to make that possible.

Or that the people dealing with the software are OCD and neurotic enough to deal with the ridiculous intricacies and lack of decent flow in Media Wiki.

only 2 i have set up and compared side by side are tikiwiki and mediawiki.  I preferred tikiwiki even though i did not appreciate all the extra crap that came with it.

I agree that all the wiki software is pretty obtuse, which is perhaps a result of the tradition that it was always documented in itself, filtering out all but the committed and devoted.

The fact that Mediawiki is so widely used, and that it has such high-profile users, makes me think it's the one to gamble on eventually becoming usable, however, as happened with the two big players in blogging software.

The big players like Microsoft are producing nothing that might steal market (Sharepoint's implementation is amongst the worst).

I haven't ever installed wiki software, but I have done a fair amount of work on wowwiki which is Mediawiki, and it wasn't very painful to work with. We had MoinMoin at work which was shit.  FWIW.

Also, the f13 & EVE story is coming along great thanks to Yoru and Endie, so a suitable wiki home must be made available!

I agree.

Gonna look into MediaWiki more I guess, though I don't like it. More than that, I *hate* that there's no permission/member control. I suppose though, if you're gonna make wikisoftware, rule #1 is it has to be crappy.

Permission controls are there, just not very granular.  You've basically got "can see everything but not write anything," "can write anything except protected pages," and "can write anything".

I'm not sure how easy SMF's member database is to get at, but when I set up the MediaWiki at work I wrote a little plugin that hooked it into the user database we already have, so you have to login with your normal user/password before you can edit anything, but at the same time you don't have to set up or keep track of a separate username and password.  Anonymous users can still view everything, but the "edit" function is disabled and hidden until they login.  Something like that but hooked into SMF would be just the ticket if you wanted to limit editing to registered forum members.

Following what Samwise says, the Goonfleet wiki uses mediawiki but our own forums database for varying levels of rights.

Though I have to admit that it's annoying having to go to the forums THEN the Wiki. It refuses to remember me.

Wonder if this (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SMF_AutoAuthenticate) would fix that.

I should try posting that to a director and see if they'll test it. I know they're still having issues from the cross over to the new system.

Might want to look at DokuWiki:

http://www.dokuwiki.org/dokuwiki

If you get it so I don't have to sign into the forums to hit the wiki, you will be my most favoritist hero evar.

Samwise is already looking into that.

It sounds like you want the exact opposite of what NiX wants.  I propose you have a cage match to settle this before I start testing any plugins.   :why_so_serious:

We have begun work on the wiki! In lieu of a free for all, NiX will be maintaining the Wiki. If you have anything to add, please feel free to PM him here, or send him an email at:

wikiATf13.net

The stickies previously created (like this one, the dictionary, and history of bad design) will stay up, but we will slowly be transferring things over to the proper wiki pages! Weeeeeee!

Actually, that's exactly what I wanted. Currently, no matter what you do, you have to hit the forums before the Wiki or else you can't log in to the Wiki.

Why the hell would that be?  They don't know anything about each other.

There are plugins that will make it so that (e.g.) the wiki hooks into the forum and counts you as signed into the wiki automatically if you're signed into the forum.  But by default they have their own databases, their own logins, et cetera.

They've directly tied the Wiki into the forums log in and for some odd reason it doesn't detect if you're permanently logged into the forum, so you have to make the initial connection with the forum before you're allowed access to the Wiki. Typically I just leave 1 browser window open to avoid having to do this, but sometimes it can be annoying if you forget and close the window.

So they set up a plugin that's supposed to keep you from having to sign in two places instead of one, and instead makes you have to sign into one place instead of none.  (Since MediaWiki can also leave you permanently logged in.)

 :awesome_for_real:

I was actually talking about the goonfleet wiki- I have to log into the forums and then click the link to get to the wiki instead of being able to log in directly at the wiki. It is annoying.

While NiX is working on the main MMORPG list, I'm working on a few other things:

List of Genres + Examples (http://wiki.f13.net/index.php/Video_Game_Genres) - I could use some help here to make sure I hit all the genres. It's... very extensive. Also, examples where there aren't any or replacement examples where the ones listed may not be the best possible choice as an example.

List of MMORTS' (http://wiki.f13.net/index.php/MMORTS_List) - Hopefully as extensive as any other list (though information is harder to track down), if there are any missing, let me know. Ones that have been canceled (like Ballerium) are under The Broken Dreams Project (http://wiki.f13.net/index.php/The_Broken_Dreams_Project).

Speaking of...

The Broken Dreams Project (http://wiki.f13.net/index.php/The_Broken_Dreams_Project) will be a list of games that contains relevant information on canceled games (that were in development or released) rather than the basic stuff for games that are still running. Anyone that wants to write up stuff for that would be welcome to.

Finally, The CCG List (http://wiki.f13.net/index.php/CCG_List) is fairly obviously titled. It's empty atm because all I can think of is Magic: The Gathering Online and the SOE stuff. So any help here would be great.

Feel free to post to this thread with any information on any of this stuff.

CCG list and RTS list is fairly populated now, if I missed anything lemme know. Back to work on the Genres.

The Broken Dreams Project is too scary to get into atm as is History of Bad Design. I'll probably bet into that AFTER I finish the game I'm working on, if even then. I might lump the Parsing on Nix. Haha.

I sold my soul getting into this endeavor, didn't I?

Voluntary enlistment in slave-labor is a better description.

MMOG List (http://wiki.f13.net/index.php/MMORPG_List) is updated with what I've got so far, will continue to fill it in over this long weekend, hopefully have it done by Monday.

I'm a fan of the last one on the list, looking good though.

Oh, I see what you're doing.

Heh, yeah, forgot to mention the placeholder for inserting them. Glad you caught on, though I agree, best MMO to date.

No Echochrome under Puzzle games? Perspective-based?  :grin:

It's really, really hard to recommend Echochrome. The style is better than the game.

Are you recommending the ones that are on the lists?

Which lists? The first set of lists is just lists, information basically. The console specific are stuff I'd recommend to people, yah.

Edited top post to reflect the Wiki's progress.

I dont see these, the thread in Gaming made me think there were lists where I see none.

Left side under recommendations. Some are filled in, some aren't. PS2 is currently being worked on.