f13.net

Top 26 RPGs (http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/207777/the-26-best-rpgs-page-1-of-4/).

I will say I do NOT agree with a lot of these and their placement, plus a lot of glaring omissions.

Blah.

That list is full of fucking fail.

Wtf? Gamepro is still around?

26. Warhammer Online
25. Kingdom Hearts 2
24. Grandia
23. Skies of Arcadia
22. Planescape: Torment
21. Persona 3
20. Deus Ex
19. Disgaea PSP
18. Baldur's Gate 2: SoA
17. Oblivion
16. Pokemon Pearl/Diamond
15. Suikoden III
14. Super Mario RPG
13. FF XII
12. Earthbound
11. Mass Effect
10. KOTOR
9. A Link to the Past
8. Xenogears
7. The Ultima Series
6. Diablo 2: LoD
5. Fallout 3
4. Chrono Trigger
3. Ocarina of Time
2. WoW
1. Final Fantasy VII

Ok. Seriously? This doesn't even deserve commentary. Morphiend, why are you reading GamePro?

I don't know what Gamepro is but they certainly didn't make me want to find out more about them with that retarded list.

GamePro used to be a decent print magazine with cover art that ranged from notably disgusting and horrible fan art to absolutely awesome (think Edge at their best). Also, they had some high quality printing practices (I mean the paper and color fidelity).

Mostly though, just a rag. This list however, is a fucking advertisement. Nine times out of 10, when an advertiser wants coverage, people will just throw together a list because that shit tends to get digged.

Because PCXL is gone?  :awesome_for_real:

WTF? Warhammer Online? WOW for fuck's sake? REALLY?

Yeah, Gamepro always had great printing but shitty shit shit shit writing. I see nothing has changed.

I just had to post it because of the absolute absurdity of it.

Oblivion beating out Planescape and Deus Ex?

No Fallout 1 or 2?

Fucking retards.

Well I think that WoW has earned its place on the list. WAR definitely hasn't, what the fuck is it doing there?

And I always thought the Zelda games were Action/Adventure outings.

WTF is WAR doing on that list.  How much did that cost? I'm not sure MMOs have a place in this sort of list, but that's a complete other issue I'm sure some may disagree with.

There are a lot of glaring omissions and crappy decisions based on certain franchises. Not shocking considering the source, I didn't even know GamePro still existed.  

WoW isn't an RPG.

It's an MMO with some people that like to RPG.

RPers don't an RPG make.

It's an INCREDIBLY POPULAR online game and its importance to the online gaming genre should not be trifled with - but an RPG? comeon. COMEON.

How is WoW not an RPG?

Killing boars does not an rpg make.

It's just that ye average rpg actually gives a shit about story and characterization.

WoW doesn't.

But hey, a list that puts Suikoden III instead of Suiko2 shouldn't even be used as toilet paper.

You're new here, so I'll be kind. I don't really consider any MMOG an RPG.

Online gaming is an entirely different animal to the traditional RPG genre.

When making a list of the best RPGs, you need to consider writing, pacing, character development of NPCs and PCs, the setting, a whole slew of things that are designed specifically with a goal in mind - of you taking over a person or group of people telling you their story. You're playing their role. Not your own role, sometimes choices can be made (Deus Ex for example) that change the end result or in extreme cases like Fallout 2, you create your own character and such, but your bits are clearly defined in that sure, you might have choice, but there's a beginning an end and stories in between.

As for an MMOG, you play yourself personified as some little toon and you go around a world with shit writing compared to the best RPGs (really, one of the major reasons no MMORPG should ever make a best RPG list), a game with no particular goal in mind, terribly inconsistant pacing, and character development that's largely non-existant (getting items does not a developed character make).

If you really want to argue that and say WoW is an RPG, it's the smartest kid in the most retarded class - the MMO class of RPGs. And if you somehow think that WoW compares even remotely to the best RPGs of the RPG genre, you're pretty insane.

I mean shit, Shenmue isn't on that list. They missed so many fucking amazing RPGs that no MMO even compares to that it's just maddening. Maybe in a list of the best 100 RPGs, I could agree with dropping WoW somewhere below number 85 (edit: But I still say it's not a fucking RPG).

I'd put Fable 1 on that list before I'd put any goddamn MMO.

That's funny, I was going to say I'd put Blue Dragon or fucking Suikoden V on that list before any MMORPG.

Fuck, I'd put Mystic Quest on the list.

Shitty list is shitty.

Among the other failings, "the Ultima series" is such a goddamn copout.

I fucking HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE IT when sites put SERIES on a fucking list and then specify a fucking Final Fantasy or Fallout or Baldur's Gate.

What a giant crock of dick.

Have some consistency, motherfuckers.

No kidding.  They have separate Final Fantasies listed but one catch-all for Ultima?  There's also a distinct lack of Parasite Eve on that list.  :oh_i_see:

Also, I'm sorry, none of the Zelda games are RPGs.

If we can't put Link to the Past or Ocarina on the list as Action RPGs, it's hard to put Deus Ex on the list.

Which would be a shame. As it's one of the best RPGs and one of the worst FPS titles.

Yet somehow, all three of those games go on the Best Games ever list.

You know, I bet this was exactly it.  Even though it's dead last on the list, it's front and center on the very first page of the list.

edit:


This one is arguable because this is where the rift in the suikoden fanbase occured.  I place 3 above 2 also.  I'm not saying 2 is bad, 2 is very very good, but it's lower than 3.

But that's not what this thread is about.  GamePro sucks.

Why the hell isn't Hendrix on that list?

 :oh_i_see:

See Reply #4.

I saw it.  I almost quoted it even.  I just got lazy.

Deus Ex has some RPG features they lack, particularly in the character customization/advancement area. I draw the line somewhere short of "hey I got another heart worth of health."

Compared to? Hey I got an upgrade that gives more health or hey I got another level in Final Fantasy? I understand it's a gray area, but nothing like MMOGs vs RPGs.

I don't even want to get into JRPGs. Not a fan, and they're different enough that I think they should really be discussed separately. Games like the Fallouts have literally almost nothing in common IMO with the Final Fantasy games, where they have a lot more with Deus Ex.

/shrug They both bring very different things to the genre. I'm thankful for both (western RPGs and JRPGs) but they should really start learning more from eachother. Well, Japan has started Hybridizing, America - not so much. I thought Persona 3 was particularly notable. But hay, I like most games.

Take out all the MMOs, many of the console games, turn it upside down, and it is a little better.

To be fair, I've played roles in a number of MMO storylines that were full of conflict, intrigue, and betrayal -- I am speaking of player interaction and guild feuds of course, which has little to do with development. No MMO has facilitated these interactions very successfully or created a good conventional storyline, so it is a moot point.

Disgaea PSP? lolz? Why not just use the Original?

And FF7 at the top is such a fucking fanboi copout. Hell, I'll admit to having liked the game when it came out, but come the fuck on, #1 in RPGs? Fuck that noise. Wow at 2 is just laughable, even if you want to say it's an RPG.

I can sort of see why they would use seperate Link games, but clump the Ultima series together, as LttP and OoT play Very differently, while I felt there was more continuity or consistency between the Ultima games.

And while I guess I can let Pokemon slide....Oblivion? On a list that includes Fallout 3? That's sort of redundant  :grin:

There is just a whole lot wrong with that list, including the lack of Fallout 1/2.

And it's #26? Who the hell makes a Top 26 list? They might as well have named it "Top 25 RPGs Everyone Should Play and Warhammer".

Not that the list wouldn't still suck, but bad taste is at least excusable.

All their lists have a weird amount of shit. They're all advertisements.

Which means they are putting shit like Ultima 9 above Final Fantasy 2 (the SNES version - whatever number that was in Japan) or KOTOR. Asshat parade.

I don't consider any title a true RPG unless you can make choices about what your character does that changes how the world behaves OR it has an excellent character driven narrative. XP and loot and levelling up do not make an RPG.

Awful list.

I am going to go with the theory that they realized how worthless and obsolete they have become and decided to get page views by coming up with a batshit insane list and hoping everyone links their friends to discuss how crazy it is.

You'd be wrong. It was an advertisement.

If you are going to list JRPGs you better list FFIV or VI since those are the best ones.

Friendly reminder: FFIV remake is out for the DS right now. Buy yours today!  :awesome_for_real:

IF an MMO is going to be on any RPG list, I would say FF XI.  The grind might have been killer, but there was a lot of story in there.  Just in Windurst for the ten levels I managed I was very impressed by what I found.

I'm not sure it would rank in the top 26.  Unless it's a free advert of course.

Ha ha ha I'm so glad you posted that so I didn't have to.

(Slips Lantyssa ten bucks and a fan-festival ticket)

Still wouldn't put it on the list. >_>

My address is...  :drillf:

Xenogears that high? It was half a fucking game and everyone god damned well knows this.

FF7 was shit next to FF6. Everyone who's not retarded knows this.

The "Ultima series" entry should have been replaced with Ultima 5, or Ultima 7.

Diablo and Zelda barely belong on an RPG list.

WoW and WAR don't belong at all.

This is some seriously stupid shit. Lists are always going to generate some bitching, but I defy anyone in the world to look at this list and tell me it's not utterly retarded. Fucking GamePro. I used to like them when I was a kid, but back then my only real basis for comparison was Nintendo's monthly propaganda outlet, Nintendo Power.

These stupid ass lists are the one downside to every year's holiday shopping season.

The only part of what WUA just said that I disagree with is the Ultima 5 or 7 bit. I think it should be 4 and 5.  :grin:

Mystic Quest was always unfairly treated IMHO.  Its a good beginner's RPG, and actually has more puzzles than most console RPGs of that timeframe had.

But yeah, that list was a pile of shit.  No Wasteland, Bard's Tale, AD&D series, Fallout 1-2, or even any Dragon Quest?

No Vandal Hearts?  Lunar?  Paper Mario?  Metroidvania genre titles?  (If Zelda can be an RPG, the Metroid and Castlevania series has TONS of games that fit the definition too.)

You're crazier than the list.

It's funny because it's true!

Man that list is awful for a start SNES Zelda was fairly mediocre, the Gameboy alternative Link's Awakening was two or three times as good. The Witcher is better than a good chubk of games there and NWN's part one.

You are the most wrong person on the history of the Internet.  If stupidity online could cause blindness, I've have to burn every computer I've used to view this thread and seal the ashes at the bottom of the ocean, because the power of your stupidity could radiate from those ashes and end civilization if the box wasn't deep enough. 

Xenogears was awesome and deep when you were in middle school.

Hey guys, lets play Warhammer!

if I was going to list 26 RPGs I'd at least put Final Fantasy Tactics in there somewhere.

Maybe I'm just an idiot though and dunno good games.

I was reminded today on another forum how awesome Hero's Quest (aka Quest for Glory: So You Want To Be A Hero?) was as an RPG.

Also, Vagrant Story.

I was also a fan of an Amiga RPG called Legend, which had the most customisable magic system I can remember seeing.

... I can see where this thread is going. :drill:

Hah fanboi ftw! it was definitely one of the worst of the series, but seeing as you put it so eloquently I'll admit mediocre is harsh, maybe I mean mediocre by comparison to the other games in the Zelda series.

I love the game but its totally wrong on the list. I thought there was a check box of "choose your starting stats" that an RPG had to tick off to qualify ;)

Someone has to say it... where's Arcanum?

I really enjoyed it aswell I think I was bit strong in my words, but it's defintely not an all time RPG it isn't even close to being the best Zelda game that's what I meant.

It's busy.  It's currently taking up space on the "buggy, poorly balanced and too fucking ugly to live" list.   The settting, writing, and story aspects were pretty decent, but the rest of the game was somewhat of a trainwreck and, holy god, it was easily the ugliest game ever released in the context of it's time.

Oddly enough, you're making me want to play it now.

Heh, everyone's bringing out their personal crazy includes. I imagine personal list thread would bring out of lot of eyerollers. I think I'd have to den it the first time I see Chrono Cross or Final Fantasy 8 make an appearence.

Edit: Personally, A Link to the Past was my favorite Zelda and I think the best of the bunch.  Not a huge fan of any of the newer Zeldas (Ocarina and beyond) and haven't been bothered to beat any of them.  Hell, I didn't even buy Twilight Princess.  Still, not a RPG.

While Link has always been thrown into the RPG genre, I've always found them to veer more to the side of the road that includes adventure titles. Particularly the first and second one. And then it slowly b-lined straight towards action with growth, like every action game.

GTA:SA is one of my favorite rpgs.

Mine too.  Really.  Why would it not be a RPG?

It's the most RPGish of any GTA.  It's got stats that help determine success in just about everything.  It has extensive character customization.  Fairly plot driven. 

I think most people that put together these lists would consider it an action/adventure game with RPG trappings. As an RPG alone, it would likely make a top 25 list of mine, although likely pretty low on the list due to the RPG aspects being fairly weak in my opinion. 

Personally, I don't know.  I really wouldn't even consider No More Heroes to be a RPG and it's basically the same deal.  For whatever reason it just feels like a semantic cop-out by including the them. /big_shrug

Hey, look, I'm arguing about what is and isn't a RPG again! :awesome_for_real:

Inevitable tangent is inevitable.

I do want to say that putting Crono Trigger in the top 5 was correct, as was putting Super Mario RPG on the list (if you haven't played the latter, download the emulation- a lot of fun and a new take on the Mario universe).  However, that is wiped out by the editors' negative million points for placing Oblivion on the list, and for having BG2 so low. 

Since we're mentioning favorites, I'll say mine was Morrowind.  I don't remember ever caring as much about the story and the world and about my character's fate than I did in this game.  I loved reading all the books and finding out things about the setting and the history of the world.  I loved searching for the reason the dwarves disappeared and exploring the ruins of their cities.  I loved piecing together just who Nerevar was and what exactly happenend between him and the Tribunal.  There was so much more going on than you would find out just by doing the main quest alone, and it made an incredibly engaging story for me because of it.

I enjoyed such favorites as the Boots of Blinding Speed and the Scroll of Icarian Flight.  It seems so much better now that I have played Oblivion.

Did anyone mention Shadowhearts yet?

I was going to avoid interjecting my own picks, but Shadow Hearts: Covenant (SH2) was a masterpiece.  The first Shadow Hearts showed the potential and despite some flaws in production value and UI design was, in my opinion (obviously) every bit the equal of FFVII.  SH2 just improved upon every single aspect of the game.  Similar to what Baldur's Gate 2 did for the original.

Only jRPGs I'd consider its equal would be Final Fantasy 6 and perhaps Persona 3.  Persona 3 has just so much different stuff going for it that it's hard to quantify just how good all of it is.

Fuck yes. I've been saying this forever.

I haven't played it. Does the character customization/advancement go beyond looks/gear?

The reason I don't count GTA3 as an RPG is because it opens some nasty floodgates and genre separation is a good thing sometimes. I don't want Crackdown, Saints Row and other SANDBOX/ACTION titles to be chucked into the pile with RPGs. It just makes no sense and shouldn't be done.

I agree with whoever said above....Where the FUCK is my FFT?  :drill:

Also, Arcanum is buried in The Box of Suck at the bottom of a trash heap somewhere. Fuck, Arcanum, for making me gimp because I wanted to play a hybrid, so that I wasn't good with either tech or magic, and got destroyed by both.


PS: lol, Mystic Quest.

You have skills that increase with use and impact how the game plays, and aspects of your appearance (weight, muscle mass) are dictated by your behavior. I realized a line had been crossed when I caught my kid brother grinding up skill with an Uzi because he wanted to be able to dual-wield.

I found myself getting ready to stuff C.J. full of cheeseburgers in order to get a date with that girl who liked fat guys... then I realized that was stupid and went back to flying around with a jetpack while shooting motherfuckers.

Sounds like it qualifies to me then.

Betrayal at Krondor is better than half that damn list.
Hell FF7 was just plain shit.  Surely I'm not the only person who called  their own personal happy ending?